This Is Some SERIOUSLY Bad News For Harley...

[@spitescorner]

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[@Blackvipe1]

Dude electric bike have you had your balls clipped. There is nothing like the sound of an engine comming to life.

[@EarthSurferUSA]

Sorry. I never met an "artist" who knew what he/she, were talking about outside of defining a riff.

[@roadkill8161]

If they want a younger demographic then makes bikes cheaper! Most young riders can't afford 25k - 40k on a bike, it's so much more appealing to spend less than 10k on a decent affordable bike.

[@gaiustacitus4242]

Most young people can't even afford the periodic service for H-D motorcycles.

[@TheFirstCause]

Exactly! They should be trying to compete with Yamaha and Honda. Make the Bronx already and complete with the Yamaha MT series.

[@slowery43]

nonsense - ten years ago you'd be saying "young people today could never afford a $500 phone or $300 sneakers". Harley is rightfully failing quickly because they do not make high qaulity products that attract news buyers. Despite the fact that they give tens of millions in bribes to the gov every year miraculously they jsut got a $89mm fed grant to work on electric bikes... yeah that'll be money well spent. Harley is so well known for their customers embracing new ideas especially those that do not make really annoying noise

[@gaiustacitus4242]

@@TheFirstCause The bikes H-D has made to try to compete with Japanese and European bikes have been disasters. The Bronx would be just another mistake added to the annals of H-D history.

[@5280MTM]

@@gaiustacitus4242 guy I ride dirt bikes with has a HD and can’t afford the service charge to have new tires put on.

[@Gsr4me]

How to put this without being an ass.... HD offerings nothing of interest to me personally.

[@LouisGiliberto]

I mean, that's a statement of fact so you're definitely not being an ass, just honest about what you like.

[@zudosmg]

Someone said to me the other day "Its a Lifestyle Brand" Not a motorcycle company since you have to give them everything to get on one of there bikes.

[@LouisGiliberto]

@@zudosmg I've also heard it described as "A t-shirt company that makes motorcycles" But I still like their bikes (minus the overpriced part). If they sell t-shirts to make good affordable bikes, I'm ok with that, lol. But their bikes are arguably "not good" and they objectively are not affordable.

[@blipco5]

Same here. I thought when I saw a Bronx at the New York motorcycle show I could be swayed but no, they killed it and went with the Bloatster instead.

[@nonyabusiness4151]

Hmm, I'd take a knucklehead or shovelhead, but they stopped building those 60 years ago.

[@LouisGiliberto]

HD is doing everything they can to kill their business. Over-priced bikes, dealers with bad attitudes, and regardless what Harley claims, doing nothing to bring younger riders in (I'm 55 so I'm the target audience-ish). Their Adv bike was a step in the right direction, and I almost bought one, but the price was outrageous so went with a KTM 1290 SAR instead. If I buy another American bike, it's going to be Indian. Harley really has nothing for me except the brand name. Like they say "A t-shirt company that sells motorcycles"

[@fullmetalcorgi1350]

There will literally be nothing funnier than the "American" brand being called Indian

[@zxjockey]

When was looking at the Pan America, I looked at your bike as well. When you add the controls and management to the KTM that the PA comes with standard, the 1290 is more expensive and still doesn't have the active suspension the PA has.

[@Prosecute-fauci]

Don’t forget their LGBT pandering.

[@fullmetalcorgi1350]

@@Prosecute-fauci it's about time someone pandered to me. God knows your mom needs a break

[@stephenwisner4993]

@@Prosecute-fauci Are you really going to blame this on the gays? Instead of HD failing to make a product people want to buy?

[@MrFuture2084]

I’ve seen it said that young people can’t afford the 25-40k bikes. Well most 40 plus year olds can’t either.

[@sebastianziernicki8641]

Forget the bike itself. Once you add insurance in there and maintenance you're looking at recurring expenses of a couple grand on these bikes each year. I love riding, but it's such a pain on my wallet sometimes

[@MrFuture2084]

@@WolfAngelRock my dealer quoted me 21900 for a Nightster s when the msrp is only 15ish. No way I would pay 7k over msrp. I love Harleys but I’ll just have to stick with my 30 year old Road King.

[@Bornfromjets719]

@@WolfAngelRock or a CFMOTO with more features and tech for 6k to 10k. 🤭

[@WolfAngelRock]

@@Bornfromjets719 Chinese garbage? If that's what you want, then go for it. IMO, you might as well flush your money down a toilet. Also, comparing a sport bike to cruisers is like comparing apples to oranges. But if you want a sport bike, why not buy something like a Kawasaki Ninja? You'll get a much higher quality motorcycle with Japanese bikes than with Chinese trash.

[@WolfAngelRock]

@@Bornfromjets719 Yeah, if you want a cheap piece of Chinese-made junk. Also, comparing sport bikes with cruisers doesn't make sense. If you really want a sport bike, why not buy something like a Kawasaki Ninja? At least with a Japanese bike you know you're getting a quality motorcycle, even if it costs a little more.

[@localenterprisebroadcastin5971]

Wow…put a European in charge of an American company who doesn’t ride or own a motorcycle …who could have seen this coming

[@fullmetalcorgi1350]

Let's put France in charge, they know how to handle C-suite level problems

[@Deetroiter]

The CEO is buddy buddy with Klaus Schwab at the World Economic Forum, are you really surprised that it's a German trying to sabotage a great American brand?

[@carloalbertoranzani8041]

European brands are doing way better than Harley The problem for them (edit - them=Harley) is there’s no cheap entry levels so the young generation won’t start with them That said, the Chinese are going to take most of the low price market nonetheless, so for established brands it could be natural evolution to become more expensive brands to age into, instead of aging with. That also said, Harley is more like a clothing company than a mc company since a long time lol, until the brand keeps its name renowned in a way or another they’re kinda safe

[@Onwheels-1234]

Royal Enfield has some great options for young riders. The fit and finish is excellent on their newer bikes

[@fullmetalcorgi1350]

@@Onwheels-1234 but it's British....

[@FRWD_FXLRST]

They’re about to get the bud light treatment too. 😂😂😂 Fire the CEO!

[@slappopotamus1001]

It's too late for that. It's already started. They need a whole new bored of directors to turn this ship around.

[@charlesbynum]

What, is Kid Rock gonna shoot one with his gun?

[@skippypeanutbutter9136]

@@charlesbynum that'd get more views and be more impactful than your simpy little comment

[@chrisfrank4267]

They are also moving production to Thailand

[@skippypeanutbutter9136]

@@charlesbynum

[@dumptrump3788]

When I got back into riding, I looked at Harley. The conversation I had was jaw dropping, "Well, of course you'll get it run in & after your first service you can upgrade to the Stage 1 kit" & so on, until "And that will unlock the path to the Screaming Eagle package so you can release the TRUE POTENTIAL of the bike!" All this on an already expensive bike that I'd be expected to spend months in the shop & thousands more money. I don't get it. I bought a Yamaha . How I release the "True Potential of the bike" is to drop a gear or two & open the throttle all the way. No Harley has ever kept up with me & it cost me less than half. BMW & Triumph have managed to re invent themselves, Harley needs to cut themselves free from the massive, heavy, slow & expensive bike riders & provide options that include sporty, light & above all AFFORDABLE.

[@simonedward9644]

Shit bikes

[@martymcfly1776]

It wouldn't work. They are stuck with the market they have, and they know it.

[@MastaKeahi]

All they had to do was follow in the steps of royal enfield

[@onecrazywheel]

Exactly right. I bought a 2022 Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 last year and couldn't be happier. I got the Orange Crush color rendition. I put a bunch of RE parts on that make it my own and have upgraded loud exhaust. It's a fantastic bike. HD would have to have an equal bike priced at $5600 to make me want one. 😆

[@backroadbeetle4781]

if HD coulda made an air-cooled sporster that was nimble, smooth and a 6sp (like the RE) I'd buy one immediately tomorrow. I love my RE because it's everything HD should be; retro, bare bones, affordable and reliable.

[@stuglenn1112]

I agree RE is a motorcycle company doing it right.

[@ajc-ff5cm]

Enfield was my entry. It was a solid choice. Moved up to an Indian this year.

[@MastaKeahi]

@@ajc-ff5cm that’s what I did I started on a RE350 classic. I really liked it but there was one hill on the highway where I live that it just couldn’t take so I upgraded to a Scout

[@SquareRebellion33]

I took the MSF on a Harley Street 500. Got my endorsement only to learn that they weren't making them or the Street 750 anymore. I am so not interested in paying $30k for a bike...

[@johnengland8619]

Buy a metric bike

[@wlt3585]

Also did my MSF on a Street 500, was impressed by it given that I didn't expect to like cruisers at all. Unfortunately none of Harleys stock, save the Pan-Am, really interests me. Triumphs Bonnevilles have won my heart as far as cruiser bikes go

[@honestbrute9216]

Why can’t you just buy a new used one for half that?

[@bwlyon]

HD’s problem is its CEO and his philosophy, he is bad for the Brand and the Brand’s image. Another problem is HD’s board of directors which is as bad as the CEO. Replace the board with people who know what they are doing and actually are invested in seeing HD succeed, and likewise with the CEO!

[@maguslascivious4980]

It's the Board.. not just the CEO. They're all WEF globalists.

[@mojomanmurph1925]

EXACTLY!!! If you study the CEO, top execs and board of directors, you walk away with "WTF!?!?". They got to go. I am about to sell all my shares of Harley stock that I have accumulated over two decades because I believed in the brand. Not anymore and that is disheartening.

[@davidcarroll7193]

Operation fill the dumpster!!

[@j3tztbassman123]

Maybe have people that Ride on the board, not clowns looking for a gravy train.

[@AlitaGunm99]

My dad (80) has eleven bikes in his garage, and has never owned a Harley. I don't think he's ever ridden one. They're just not on the map to anyone who cares about price and performance.

[@dirkdiggler5164]

what does he own, does he ride them all ?

[@AlitaGunm99]

@@dirkdiggler5164 A few Yamaha DT's from the 70's in various sizes, an RZ350, an AJS 450, a Bultaco, a smattering of others. He picked up a recent year Suzuki SV650 last year, and is working to recover from Covid weakness to get back on it. Now that I think of it, with the SV650, it's 12 bikes.

[@shaggyofwv]

Sounds like your dad makes poor choices in buying motorcycles, IMO.

[@dirkdiggler5164]

@@AlitaGunm99 Sounds like a nice collection, with some pretty snappy bikes.

[@wlt3585]

​@shaggyofwv Variety is the spice of life after all. Though I'm taking special precautions to limit myself to 3 bikes maximum

[@steelshooter2289]

Harley's biggest issue is no one under 45 cares about the Harley nameplate, they care if its a well made bike for the money. Also, not sure who in the design department thought light bars for headlights were good looking.

[@EarthSurferUSA]

Your biggest issue,---is probably not the same biggest issue for everybody 45 and under---who you think you can speak for. The real issues is,--why can't many people under 45 afford a bike anymore? Figure that out, and we can fix the issue.

[@brandonmiller9155]

@@EarthSurferUSAI just bought a bike for 5400. I’m 27. What’re you talkin about. Plenty of people can afford a bike, most bikes aren’t 20k or more. It’s no one’s fault that HD is overpriced and unaffordable for the majority of people, over or under 45. If I’m spending Harley money I’ll just buy a car, or a better bike. Like, what?

[@steelshooter2289]

@@EarthSurferUSA first if you look at demographics harley's buyers are well above 45, so thats why i can speak to that. to respond to your second statement, don't look at caddilacs if you've got chevy money. Harley is billing their product as a luxury brand with out the luxury.

[@NeverDoubtMe23]

Under 45 here and I care since I like the style of their motorcycles.

[@davidcarroll7193]

I don’t either I pulled the badge off mine

[@southernbiker4728]

I sold all of my HOG stock a couple weeks ago and have no interest in another new Harley. The company has completely lost me as a customer until we see a shake up at the top.

[@fullmetalcorgi1350]

Harley's future is starting to look like their dyno numbers Disappointing

[@spitescorner]

This gave me a serious belly laugh

[@fullmetalcorgi1350]

@@spitescorner then my work is done.

[@Jerry-w1d]

I just quit my job at Harley 6 month ago they are building bikes in Thailand shipping them back to the States and rebadging them made in the USA. I would not buy a new Harley from 2019 upward because it would be a crapshoot if you actually got an American Bike and charging more $ for them.

[@kreatordandy3738]

My brand new 2020 Sporster...died at the 2 year mark. 2 years of trying to fix electrical issues and lights burning out the bulbs. Nothing. Lucky bike hit a van and insurance company gave me money. Paid my credit cards instead of getting a new HD.

[@williamcoulter5462]

But that is the German way as most of the parts for the GS come from China.

[@user-qy2wf2lt6v]

​@@kreatordandy3738 FFS!!!!! I know folk with 20 elyear old Boulevards that still keep them strong. What the hell HD!!!!?

[@Rdkng07]

@@kreatordandy3738 I had the exact same problem with a new Triumph Street Scrambler 900. Funny that.

[@JayRoberts244]

It’s as if Zeitz was hired to assist the board in driving the last nails into HDs coffin

[@fullmetalcorgi1350]

Don't give Harley that much credit... They'd use glue instead of nails

[@0202pmurT]

Typically what happens is shortsellers get a plant on the board who pushes the CEO around.

[@silverdale3207]

Almost as if BMW sent someone over to destroy the competition.

[@adamlannerd1408]

Most guys can't afford a Harley until they are in their 40's and making real money. Price has always been 50% of their problem. Not making a bike like the Bronx or Buell Super Cruiser is the other 50% imo. Want younger riders? Make a "sport" bike for $15-20k.

[@RezaQin]

I'm making relatively real money in my 30s and I would never buy an HD. Japanese bikes all the way.

[@LouisGiliberto]

Nailed it.

[@HarrisonFjord-n3v]

As a young rider... I don't want to be part of that trash ass Harley community. It's cancer.

[@xani666]

And they won't want harley if they got into motorcycles in their 20's and got other brands. Harley will be outright downgrade in handling and features.

[@langhamp8912]

Harley makes BMW sportbike purchases seem prudent, sensible, and economical.

[@dirkdiggler5164]

Harley as a brand is , front and center , about IMAGE. Turning ghey is intentionally their new image. Good luck with that.

[@darkiee69]

Young people can't afford a new Harley.

[@jedexc]

Very true.

[@patrickderocco296]

Old heads can't either

[@Robert-xs2mv]

They afford a used Harley either.

[@viperq]

Most young Americans can't afford motorcycle period.

[@SamSwanner]

Didn't he say that in the video? Or did you just come to the comments to post that without watching? Not saying your wrong, just provided more to the conversation than a parrot.

[@zachhood7625]

Why would I buy a Harley when I can get a similar bike with the same power/features AND it costs $10k less?

[@emmanuelcavalcante3451]

But the clothing... 😂

[@wwb7091]

AVERAGE customer age??? I seldom see anybody under 50 on a H-D.

[@TylerG7777]

Yup. We have bike night here every week at Quaker Steak and Lube (in SC). Every guy on a Harley is like 50+, grey and grizzled, leather vest, generous gut. Lots of HD apparel. They’re a cliche. I want no part of the whole scene.

[@Conejo147]

@TylerG7777 that's crazy. Here in Texas every Friday in my city there's a car and bike meet up. All but 1 HD rider is under 35.

[@TylerG7777]

@@Conejo147 Wow. That’s really shocking. What a difference from my location.

[@NeverDoubtMe23]

The group I ride in is mostly Harleys and I am the oldest at mid 30s. Sure, they are riding used or sportsters but they love to ride.

[@headkicked]

​​@@Conejo147 Same. A lot of younger riders. As well as, the local stunt crews are starting to add Dynas to their collection. More and more people are learning to stunt Dynas, and it's pretty cool. Brian_636 has a sweet Dyna setup and he's been posting stunt videos for the last year on it.

[@petersluik7192]

Harley should take a page out of Triumphs playbook. They sell something for everyone. Modern Classics in a wide variety of styles? Check! Oh, you like modern sporty bikes? Check! ADV riding is more your thing? Check! Power cruiser? Check! Maybe you'd like a smaller 400cc bike that won't break the bank? Check! They offer bikes from 400cc to 2500cc and anything in between. You could literally get into the brand on their new 400cc bikes and move up from there to whatever type of bike you like and never leave the brand. That's how you build brand loyalty.

[@fuglbird]

And they finally fixed the traditional Triumph oil leak problem.

[@Rdkng07]

@@fuglbird I dunno, but I just sold a 900 street scrambler that was nothing but electrical problems.

[@xani666]

Stock buybacks pretty much mean "we don't want to invest in company, we want to give our big stockholders more money in non-taxable way"

[@andrewgee241]

And why is that necessarily bad if the company doesn't think they have a better idea to use the money for. The shareholders own the company and the profits are theirs. Would you prefer Harley just blow it all on another boondoggle.

[@BikesDrones]

@@andrewgee241 They don't have the money from profits they borrow for the buybacks.. You load up the company with non productive debt to bolster the short term gains of the directors stock options who cash out before the company goes down the toilet. If you have excess profits from the company selling products you pay dividend's and then the stock price rises naturally.

[@ntdscherer]

​@@andrewgee241 It depends if they're so immensely profitable that they can't spend all their money, or have no good ideas for what to do with it. I suspect HD is more the latter.

[@CycleMycl]

@@andrewgee241it’s bad because it stifles growth but the current CEO won’t be the CEO when it ‘hits the fan’. What happens when your loyal customers die off? If you aren’t reinvesting in to the next 30yrs, you’re going to lose. Stock price doesn’t create growth and new sales. That $1B does but the C-suite now wants to use the profits of the loyal customer base to line their pockets with buybacks. They don’t care about the next generation of buyers. They’ll get their golden parachute and hand the mess off to someone else.

[@m6780]

It's disappointing to see. Most corporations are going after the quick buck. Nobody seems to care about a long term investment. Stock holders want instant return for their investment or they sell their stock and move on to the next shiny thing that catches their eye.

[@JA-zh5xi]

I’ve bought five Harley’s in three years and spent a ton on merch. Not spending anymore money with a company that turns around and gives it to sick freaks.

[@codykyoteeclemons1941]

“Younger people can’t afford”. Some of us can and won’t. They’re not worth the money. On paper or otherwise. If you’re buying a Harley- you’re buying one BECAUSE it’s a Harley.

[@jamessouthworth1699]

Harley-Davidson has become too expensive for younger riders AND too expensive for a lot of us older riders too. Not to mention they don't even make models I like anymore.

[@500ccRabbit]

7:30 electric motorcycles are actually pointless. Range matters, and gas is dirt cheap on a motorcycle. It has too many drawbacks and no advantages. A solition in search of a problem

[@Giraffe537]

If Harley wants younger riders all they have to do is copy what triumph is doing with their Bonneville lineups, Royal Enfield did that and even stole some of their engineers and its working great for them

[@lazzygnome4060]

The biggest issue with HD is the same issue Apple has. They don't innovate, they follow behind other manufacturers (sometimes years behind), and they survive exclusively on brand recognition. A lot of their stuff is cool, but most of it just isn't designed and priced for an actual youth market.

[@chasingghost4499]

Most people are not financially stable enough to afford a Harley-Davidson untill their 40s.. and when they charge $700 for a 3 hole those 40 year olds are doing that themselves, i know i am.

[@m3talc0re]

same

[@johnengland8619]

Buy a 😊sportster and trade up

[@Hiiiiffffyhhhbbb]

That's completely false. I use local dealers and it's only 150? Wtf you talking about

[@Hiiiiffffyhhhbbb]

It's like 80 to do yourself or 150 at shop

[@chasingghost4499]

@marccheripka6558 sorry, they charged $685, next dealer 30 miles south wanted $500 something. If it were $150, I would've had them do it.

[@bigfatroach7273]

HD offers nothing of interest to me. That coupled with the excessive price keeps me away. I went with a more wallet-friendly, more reliable bike (Honda Rebel 1100T DCT) and couldn't be happier.

[@TylerG7777]

I’m not a cruiser guy, but if the day comes when I decide to buy a cruiser, I’d do do exactly what you did. The Honda Rebel is a really cool bike. And the fact that Honda makes it would definitely give me peace of mind. I’d know that I put my money down on a great quality bike. And the fact that I’m not part of the Harley Davidson culture only makes it that much sweeter. Great choice.

[@lgwappo]

When the name matters more than the bikes I'm not interested.

[@slakk5093]

I’ve owned at least 20 motorcycles, but never a Harley. I’ve never desired one, can’t see myself ever wanting one in the future either. I don’t want to be associated with the Harley image, I’ve had nothing but negative interactions with Harley folks. Blocking the road, intimidation tactics that are just foolish when my sports bike can easily outpace any Harley etc. Harley is all about the image, I’m interested in riding and technology.

[@aussiebloke609]

Maybe part of H-D's problem is that their engines are still fairly crap. When your 121 cu. in. (1,977cc) engine produces 139 lb.-ft. of torque @ 3,000 rpm, and 115 hp @ 4,500 rpm...(for comparison, a 2013 Hyundai Elantra 2.0 liter makes 148 hp @ 6,500 rpm and 131 lb-ft @ 4,700 rpm)...do you really have the authority to call anything at all "sporty"...?

[@kfiedl3600]

You're right. 0-60 in 4.4 sec. You may as well be a garbage truck. Stick with the bikes that do it in 2 seconds flat. The only isssue is the state of the asphalt of the highways around you. Other than that, if you have chicken strips or don't regularly keep it at 135mph on the highway, you're a grade a pu$$/. I totally agree with you.

[@AyaWetts]

people keep buying those old air cooled engines... those aren't bad numbers for the engine type, but its like a 100 year old design. Their newer engines on the Nightster and Pan American are MUCH better, but they aren't putting them on anything else.

[@kfiedl3600]

@AyaWetts The trick is the torque numbers. Remember, torque is immediate usable power. They bikes are heavy and they need to be able to move. Theyre also not sport bikes, so you have plenty of power at usable speeds

[@tauncfester3022]

Owned a 1970 SAAB 99 with the B 2.0 liter FI engine, made about 105 HP and 148 lb.-ft. @ 3500, that was back almost 54 years ago. What was the XLCH1000 making back in 1970?

[@EdwardTillotson-hj5pk]

@@tauncfester3022 what the fuck does a piece of shit car have to do with a fucking motorcycle???

[@Lemmon714_]

It's the "I ride a Harley and that makes me a badass" that makes me hate Harley. South Park was spot on with that episode.

[@Conejo147]

what are you talking about? lmao nobody says that. We get it bro you hate HD because you follow the crowd.

[@fullmetalcorgi1350]

Bunch of bundles of wood riding around

[@THX5000]

@@Conejo147 I ride dual sport. I wave at all motorcyclists. The only shit attitude i have gotten from other motorcyclists has been from guys on Harleys.

[@rbuste1]

@@Conejo147sorry but HD is the crowd. Look around you. I like all types 2 or 3 wheels, nobody is special.

[@Conejo147]

@THX5000 I've had bad experiences from all types of riders man. I highly doubt it's only HD riders that are bad. But I wave to all riders too. Respect the rider no matter what they ride

[@sergionuno]

Dude about electric bikes, most of us do long distance rides quite a lot. Its simple eléctric is not for us. No other way around it. They are for rich comuters around the city, and to ride ina city a 125cc moped will do just fine. We in Europe use Vespas in the city, you dont need a expensive electric thing. Thats it.

[@Magic_Toaster]

I'm not boring enough to buy a harley

[@EdwardTillotson-hj5pk]

@@Magic_Toaster nope but you're DEFINITELY stupid enough to get an EBike

[@2WheelsGood.01]

These are the issues with Harley: Out of touch product development + marketing, lack of innovation and lack of value engineering (the bikes are way too expensive). I feel bad for their designers, they must be so restricted. This is what happens when all you care about is profit. There needs to be a balance between profits and exciting innovation. There are simply better options for less money that young people are attracted to.

[@sleazytiki]

Im 53 years old. What can Harley give me for MT-09 money..... Not much.

[@jag1963]

When I switched from a Goldwing in 2022 I went to Harley first. A beautiful Streetglide special which didnt go into neutral easily and the dealer said " yeah buy an aftermarket link rod because Harleys isn't that good! Are you kidding me. They wanted $39:845 and a reccomendation that I purchase better parts from someone else... I went down the street and bought a Chieftain Darkhorse for $31:655 and it rides better than the Streetglide. Harley are Overpriced yet still average.

[@okanaganrider4332]

Years ago I was in a Harley dealership. The salesman was going over the bike someone had just purchased. He told the owner that the front brake was poor but should get better over time.

[@avz7001]

HD tech is from the 70's. Compared to the competition, the product is unreliable, inefficient and their demographic is fading. HD has failed to fill the lower capacity class, leaving the market to the competition. HD is not luxury, simply, it's an expensive cd player that loses its value as soon as you open the box.

[@nicholascefaratti8247]

It's not that people can't afford them, it's that they don't make anything worth affording.

[@criose]

Finally bought my first new bike and I went with the Indian chief bobber dark horse. Harley doesn't have anything that looks like proper retro old-school. I just love the 116 thunder stroke.

[@MaaZeus]

My dream bike. 🤘 I wish I had the funds for one but that would bankrupt me.

[@Boobtube.]

nice bike. Polaris knows how to make them. Cut their teeth on Victory and moved on with Indian. I have a 2017 Victory Gunner, best bike I ever owned.

[@rustymustard7798]

Best sunglasses i've ever owned were the $4.99 ones in the fishing aisle at Walmart

[@nonyabusiness4151]

I paid $10. These were polarized but NOT tinted. Anti-glare, sky was blue, grass was green.

[@dirkdiggler5164]

I paid $10 for a pair of DeWalt, and literally they are better than the Oakley's I paid $155 for. The Oakley's bubbled and delaminated. I was surprised too that the DeWalts didn't have any optical distortion.

[@joelmclamore1898]

Moto guzzi and bmw make good touring bikes.Of course,the gold wing is king .

[@PershingDragoon]

I'm 33 years old with Harley Davidson Breakout dreams and Honda Rebel pockets. And I make pretty decent money for my age.

[@guitarist595]

Fun fact battery powered vehicles predate ICE vehicles.

[@ccasaccia]

You are correct!

[@Rdkng07]

Another fun fact, the US currently lacks the infrastructure to support total vehicle electrification. And if the US ever gets to the point of said support (unlikely), the rich and well connected will still own ICE vehicles, and common people will be saving up credits just to be allowed enough juice to travel.

[@GodzillaGoesGaga]

Harleys are for old people and clones. Not my gig. Also they’re way overpriced considering the technology is ancient and not very reliable.

[@TylerG7777]

Well said.

[@wrongthinker350]

So you're saying you can't afford a Harley without saying you can't afford a Harley.

[@GodzillaGoesGaga]

@@wrongthinker350 I can easily afford a Harley. I just don’t think they are worth the money.

[@GodzillaGoesGaga]

Also how many Harley’s in the TT races or other track races ? That tells you about their performance.

[@wrongthinker350]

@@GodzillaGoesGaga and I think sport bikes are for boys who like to ride other boys.

[@John_Ridley]

Stock buybacks used to be illegal, they were considered anti-competitive. Thanks Reagan.

[@WinterSkyyy]

💯, market manipulation! Should be illegal again

[@TheRealSykx]

Love seeing comrades in the motorcycle community

[@LouisGiliberto]

Stock buybacks allow the stock to go up while allowing the company to increase its own holdings to thwart off hostiles takers. If the price is up later, the company can sell and get more capital. There's no reason why stock buybacks should be illegal. The company has to pay market value just like everything else.

[@warewuffdupree]

it's just a strategy. it's not anti-competitive. most of the time, it's a red flag that something is wrong and signals investors to stay away.

[@LouisGiliberto]

@@WinterSkyyy How is it "market manipulation"? They pay the market value just like everyone else. With a buyback the stock price can go up, but it goes up for all shareholders and the people who sold the shares are making money. I'm trying to understand the manipulation part, but I don't see. I am willing to understand, though.

[@AkachiGP]

MotoGP fans dont care about Harley The difference between a modern sportbike and a harley is one won gold at the olympics and the other is overweight sitting at home watching it on tv. Even if a harley was 10-15k it still wont appeal to young riders, harleys are for boomers, you cant be making MT07 power and charging panigale prices, young riders know better, they arent car buyers who may have no idea about the performance and specs of their bike, young riders have google and youtube where they get unbiased reviews before they make big purchases like a new motorcycle, if you have harley money just get a BMW GS, its premium, it can tour, it can go offroad. If you want to cosplay hells angels get a used one theyve looked the same for the past 40 years

[@TylerG7777]

Well said!

[@danproctor9771]

“…google and youtube where they get unbiased reviews…” HAAAHHHAHAAHHAHAAHAAH

[@ronwhite8503]

I'm a boomer and I wouldn't ride one if you gave it to me.

[@korzbro35]

"Hell's angels cosplay", good one :)

[@fenrizwulf6682]

the new Harleys don't "go forever" I'm a motorcycle mechanic at an independent shop and we mostly work on Harleys. The M8 is about a 36,000 mile engine. And if you do any performance upgrades, they tend to grenade even sooner. It's designed that way. They just last beyond the warranty and then they fail.

[@Boobtube.]

Every see many Victory motorcycles with issues? They seem to run and run and run just like a Honda Civic.

[@ccasaccia]

😕

[@lebulon34]

I have been telling my dad for years about Indian motorcycles and this past week he finally got one. completely different bike from an HD. the type of bike he wanted from HD was 34K plus dealer markup. At Indian he payed 32K, no markup or extra fees. He is currently out for a ride with my mom as I am typing this. Also the Indian he bought was the Springfield

[@fullmetalcorgi1350]

Triumph also makes some awesome cruisers

[@LouisGiliberto]

Nice bike!

[@craigbomer8962]

@@fullmetalcorgi1350 I can affirm this as a Thunderbird LT owner. It's the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden.

[@mojomanmurph1925]

Nearest Indian dealership from me is 2 1/2 hrs away. The nearest HD dealership is 30 mins away. I'm good with HD.

[@BigTimberLodge]

Electric motorcycles are great unless you want to do long-distance rides. I think most Harley riders want the ability to ride off into the sunset and get out of Dodge.

[@julieb5434]

There are boomers who love the idea of the Livewire and electric motorcycles in general, so forget your generalizations, Spite. The problem with Harley is that they cost too much for what they offer.

[@TheDBall73]

Stock buybacks is the ‘new cool’ the last few years with all companies. Making money is ALWAYS more important than quality, innovation, etc etc etc. They make more money for literally doing nothing….. at all. Customer service? Reliable product? Better made product? Naw….

[@Jaysonic3423]

If they had a new bike under 10k, my wife, son, and step-son would all own one immediately. They all want a bike, and a Harley, and preferably a new one, but, financially, its not feasible. Im 51, and im riding an 01 Deuce, and am currently shopping for a touring bike for me and the lady to travel on, but, it wont be a new one. My step son is currently looking at Honda, which offers a good selection for affordability. The BRONX looks tough as hell

[@nonyabusiness4151]

Honda is great. There are many options. My VFR puts my Duke to shame.

[@GodzillaGoesGaga]

Honda’s are some of the best value motorcycles out there! Hard to go wrong with a Honda!

[@Jaysonic3423]

@pentachronic yeah, agreed. I ride a Harley, but, I'm not a Harley or nothing person. My old Shadow Ace was an amazing bike! Harley, Honda, Kawasaki, Indian, etc....I don't care what name is on it, if you're happy, having fun, on 2 wheels, that's all that matters, and I'll ride with anyone. Hell I'm thinking of buying me and my lady 2 Groms for Christmas, just for rippin' around town for fun.

[@GodzillaGoesGaga]

@@Jaysonic3423 My view too. I’ve done the cruiser thing and they have their place but I’m more of a sport bike guy. Love all motorcycles. I might bash HD but it’s more of an affectionate bash than anything. It’s like taking the piss put of your brother or sister! It’s all good! Keep safe!

[@MilosevBosko]

An 883 iron, doesnt do anything better than a Japanese bike does. The difference is the look, but its an easy thing to fix. Put on some better steering handle, some rear fender change and whoala. And you saved 10k euros.

[@chriscurlett4548]

Honestly the real issue here is HD bikes are objectively bad motorcycles for the price.

[@ab62051]

for the price Three unnecessary words

[@JViello]

Well, I went into a Harley dealer for the first time in my 54 years with the intent of possibly buying something. A sincere look at the brand. Now, I HAVE a rare Victory Vegas - Arlen Ness edition, one of the first customs he did with Victory. I used to have a full on Yamaha Midnight Star with hard bags I custom lowered to look super bad assed. So I'm not ignorant to the cruiser world. But, I grew up on Japanese sport bikes. You know, where you could go plunk down $7500 and scream around backroads with ridiculous amounts of performance. The first thing I noticed is the dealer changed...a LOT from 10 years ago or so when I last went. Used to have a more rough, raw "out west" feel with the water tower on the building, BBQ place attached etc. Now it felt like a motorcycle boutique; an expensive one. Aside from left over and used Sportsters, everything, and I mean everything was north of $18,000 with vast majority over $24K. I was willing to go up to $12-$13K. My Midnight Star was $9000 and I put about $2K into it. I wasn't even expecting anything close to a full bagger for $13K, but I hoped they had SOMETHING. I'll be honest, I was priced right out of the place. I make good money, but I have 4 kids, a home, etc etc. I COULD buy a $30K bike, but I just can't justify it for what they were offering. I could go get an H2 for under $20K, all day. I guess I'll stop by Indian next time and forget Harley for now. Damn shame, I was digging the Screamin Eagle big bore kits.

[@Snoopy-cq5jy]

In my country the price is double the price in the USA, I love Harley but I can’t afford to even dream about them this days. Welcome to Norway 😢

[@LouisGiliberto]

Honestly, you aren't missing anything except the "cool factor". I have a lot of different bikes from different countries, and the "best" bike for me is my BMWF850GSA. I like HD, Indian, etc., but they are definition form over function.

[@Mr.g622]

Not everyone is interested in their cross country Dad Baggers. I personally Hate baggers they remind me of old men bike riding for 5 days to sturgis motorcycle rally 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@billienomates1606]

As a young lad at 19 years old in 1979 I quite like the XLCR, but the price of even a used one stopped me getting one, shame.

[@rotorhead5000]

There are currently seven motorcycles is my garage (where I'm chilling, listening to this (granted one is a buddy's im working on, the other is my FIL's im trying to sell for him, but I digress)) and none of them are Harleys. Harley always just doubles down on the cruiser thing (some are muscle cruisers, some arw sport cruisers, some are touring cruisers, but at the end of the day, predominately cruisers) and to date, there's nothing a cruiser does that a different type of bike can't do better. They bank on "heritage," and "tradition" which just reminds me that they are in large part responsible for the chicken tax, and against attempting to make progress with things like liquid coolijg and fuel injection bad things, despite all the upsides. The V-rod was the first harley i liked after i developed my own opinions, and the Pan-Am was the first bike they made that I'd actually like to own, but i am absolutely not in the pay 25k+ for a toy tax bracket. If my older bike sells, ill be in the 10-12k range, which pretty much leaves out the whole harley brand if you want to own anything worth having (no offense to anyone who likes their 883 sportster, I'm not here to kink shame)

[@LouisGiliberto]

Ironically, I too, have 7 bikes (we should go to the same addiction meetings) and NONE are HDs. For what I paid for 7 different bikes (5 of which I bought used), I could get maybe 2 new HDs. I like HDs, and they're cool, but they're pretty much in the "luxury" class of bikes like Lexus is for cars.

[@captainwin6333]

Harley just basically reskins models and calls it a new bike.

[@fullmetalcorgi1350]

The COD model

[@SheppC42]

Been looking at the nighster and definitely gives me Street vibes.

[@ninji5226]

I work for a huge Telecommunications company (rhymes with rectum) and it's the same thing, pandering to the shareholders. The irony is long term these policies and decisions will be bad but they look good on paper in the short so that's what they do despite the writing on the wall.

[@jimfischione2743]

They blew it by dumping Buell.

[@freeride2oo2]

Almost lifelong Buell rider. I have had at least 1 in the garage (usually more) for for the last 25 years. Amazing bikes, but the Harley crowd and sportbike crowd both shunned them. The amount of s*** I got from Harley riders permanently turned me off to the Harley brand. Harley riders would never accept a person on a less expensive bike look at how they treat Sportster riders.

[@craigbomer8962]

I'm currently 41. Ten years ago I was in a position to finance whatever motorcycle I wanted. Ever since a was a kid, when you said "motorcycle", a Road King popped into my head, and at the time I had no idea what a Road King was. I just liked the big windshield, triple headlights, and bags. In 2014 I shopped around and seriously considered at brand new Road King, but ultimately didn't buy one. It wasn't the bike itself that stopped me, it was the dealership's attitude (finally gonna buy a MAN'S bike!) and the general attitudes of the majority of HD riders. Some of the nicest people I've met ride HD's, but they're the exception, not the rule. I ended up landing on a brand new 2014 Triumph Thunderbird LT. It had the looks and configuration I wanted, and it was $2000 cheaper than a Road King. Even then, I couldn't escape the HD "attitude". The Triumph dealership was a multi-line dealership that also sold HD. I was treated like a second-class customer once the salespeople figured out I wasn't there to buy a Harley, even though I made it clear I wasn't just looking and was there to buy an $18k motorcycle that day. Whatever, I bought the Thunderbird and left.

[@Boobtube.]

I would not of bought anything from them with that attitude. go somewhere else, than go back and show them this is what I was going to buy from you if you were not assholes. If more people did this, the HD dealers might just wake up.

[@ccasaccia]

Never finance your toys.

[@ArneAsada69]

Gimme a Harley Davidson Grom. 😊

[@backroadbeetle4781]

India has one that's similar. Buell made them the Blast, and they sold a whole bunch of them. Sure they were ugly but the meat and potatoes were there.

[@browngreen933]

Nailed it.

[@joelmclamore1898]

Gromely Ableson😮

[@sparty837]

Harley's CEO is from Germany and previously worked at the shoe company Puma. So they imported a CEO and now they are importing their bikes from Asia.

[@stevetheaxe]

The only people i know who bought harleys have either overspent or are in a much higher income bracket than me. My wife and i have an mt07 each, have put 30 000 kms on them in the last a little over a year and are happy as pigs in shit.

[@TylerG7777]

MT07s are so cool! I would get one. Well, actually, MT09.

[@stevetheaxe]

@@TylerG7777 Fair enough but we definitely like the fuel range of the 07s. I dont really see thar get talked about. We average 27km per litre with both our bikes (14 litre tank) whereas the 09s fuel range is apparently only 230kms! We live in Australia and sometimes things can be pretty far apart eh.

[@VictorLowther]

​@@TylerG7777Happy CP3 noises for the win!

[@TylerG7777]

@@stevetheaxeAustralia, huh? I’ve heard rumors that the cost of living there can be seriously high. But you know the internet…always exaggerating. Ha ha.

[@stevetheaxe]

Na its true. Mortgage has doubled etc. And just got to be smart and frugle with your coin. A lot of homelesd people which is bloody sad. Weve had it great here for a long time. We sold wifeys car to get the bikes and are just a one car family now. Thats saving us a lot of money alone.

[@smallfact0ry]

I think the the statement "Harley is a lifestyle brand" really rings true for many reasons. I am a 50 year old who's been motorcycling most of my life. In my garage I have both a very well appointed track-day gen-2 SV650 and a street legal gen-2 SV650. Added together, they both cost significantly less than the cheapest Harley. If I really wanted, I COULD have a 25k Harley-Davidson in my garage, but I am more than just a motorcyclist. I also enjoy mountain biking, as well as other hobbies. I own a home, and a business. 2 dogs. I also have 2 kids (one in college) so there's that expense, and with 4 drivers, leads to 4 cars in my family. I could head to South Dakota or Florida or whatever for some bike rally, but instead we (family) are all heading out for a nice vacation later this week. If an average middle age, middle class fellow (like me) wanted to buy into a 25K motorcycle, it would be a sacrifice for not only me not being able to afford to take part in my other hobbies, but my family also would make a sacrifice. Those who DO drop that kind of money on a Harley understand that they are buying-in on the LIFESTYLE, as the motorcycles certainly don't justify the cost when left on enough on their own and being compared to the other available options. Those people that do buy in are aging, and are fewer and fewer as time marches on. This being said, I have never ridden a Harley. Also, there is nothing about the lifestyle, or bikes themselves, that peak any interest in me whatsoever. The current direction of Harley requires its customers to completely buy in on the brand, lifestyle, and make it their identity... alienating newer riders, and the long term health of their brand.

[@GodzillaGoesGaga]

You know why they give you a Harley T-shirt when buy a new HD motorcycle ? So you can mop up the leaking oil and fluids!!

[@yveslolou739]

You're ignorance is showing

[@yveslolou739]

And the panhead and shovelhead did leak they were supposed to they were dry clutches there's a blower the primary which have to drip one to three drops every minute That's a lubricated the primary chain then the oil went to the bottom of the primary and got picked up by the secondary chain That's what kept it lubed that's always designed and that's how it was back then as I said earlier you're ignorance is showing

[@GodzillaGoesGaga]

@@yveslolou739 You apparently can’t take a joke !!

[@GodzillaGoesGaga]

​@@yveslolou739 And don’t BS me on they were supposed to leak. That is BS and you know it. It’s bad tolerances and bad fitting. No motorcycle should leak because it’s dangerous AF. Go and read up in your sacred HD forums. I have nothing against HD but the joke I made is a well known issue amongst HD enthusiasts. Go and talk to a HD tech.

[@yveslolou739]

@@GodzillaGoesGaga I don't argue with idiots You're dismissed

[@adamlanglois563]

Harley Davidson makes and has made lots of great bikes. I dig old carbureted machines that can be worked on in a shed or driveway if need be. In other words, I'd never be a customer at a corporate dealership because they probably wouldn't have anything I'd buy

[@JD-fd6gt]

I wanted to get a Harley Cruiser for a while. Every year the price kept on going up up up and away! Now I do not see any interesting cruisers and they have priced not just me, but most people out of the market with ridiculous prices.

[@davidnonya7359]

exactly now i look at the prices and think maybe i should get a boat

[@JD-fd6gt]

@@davidnonya7359 Might as well. Send a music video to the Harley CEO singing " IM ON A BOAT MOTHER FOOKER DON'T YOU EVER FORGET " 😂🤣🤣🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

[@davidnonya7359]

@@JD-fd6gt naah gonna go for indian. the chief line is smooth!

[@marylandflyer5670]

Can I add I absolutely despise the shape and design of the HD front faring.

[@toportime]

Harley is a joke of a company... they shot themselves in the foot years ago with their obsene pricing scale and oil leaking bikes... Two things most know about Harleys... they are too loud and leak oil. The company does nothing to fix their image.

[@Spikeg7]

As someone who is younger than the demographic they are targeting i will say ill never have any interest in harley davidson until they make a an affordable bike that has 2 things, power and handling. I dont want to be limited to scrapping my floorboards..

[@knifetoucher]

Harley Davidson, more like HARDLY Davidson, amirite my fellow bikers?!?!?!!?!?

[@JoelRSA-USA]

HARDLY bwhahahahahaha

[@1hdoilfielddad244]

urwrong. i own a wing and an ultra. no bike on the road can replace the ultra.

[@knifetoucher]

@@1hdoilfielddad244 Indian >>>> Harley

[@fullmetalcorgi1350]

The vibrations do make me hard

[@1hdoilfielddad244]

@@knifetoucher nah

[@oni-one574]

The fewer Harley's on the road the better. Keep them in retirement communities, out in the burbs, so I don't have to hear them. Also, why buy Harley when you can go Indian? That Scout Bobber man... I'm not a cruiser guy, but that thing is sexy. Or the FTR? FTR Rally even... Omg. Harley is such a joke.

[@PC-uh6hk]

As long as Harley keeps listening to there fat, bald, narrow minded and fussy customer base, they will fail. They wouldn't accept the V-Rod which was an excellent bike and still is, if you can get you hands on one. Some of the stupid modifications like "ape hanger" handlebars make the bike less safe and dont serve any purpose for rider comfort or performance but help to drain the blood from their arms as the ride and makes their heart work harder which shortens their life.

[@Nick-Gye]

The Buell was great as well

[@SB-or5mj]

I own a harley. Bought used for $6k. Would never be able to afford one from a dealer. They are way overpriced for their specs. Love my harley. Will always be a harley guy. Will NEVER buy one from a dealership. I owned old Honda CBs, i still own a Royal Enfield. Always looked at harleys as old dentists bikes.

[@brianbayowski9265]

BOYCOTT! FHD! 👍

[@backroadbeetle4781]

I'm going with Buell's SC, because for me to be happy I'd have to buy a Lowrider S and dump about $30,000 into it. And the Buell is already exactly what I want outa the box for ~$25k. So it's half the cost at the end of the day, made exactly the way we all asked for. There's no reason they can't toss the RevMax motor into a lightened up cruiser chassis.

[@Justaguynamedcam]

I'm in my 30's, been riding for like 7 years now, and I have 0 interest in owning anything HD. I dislike how heavy they are, I dislike how poorly they handle, and I dislike how they sound. I dislike the HD big-bike culture, and really feel that they're the final stand for retirees. If my dad passes his HD boomer couch down to me I'd sell it without riding it once.

[@LTLT900]

Yep too many old wankers on them.

[@wiadroman]

What's the asking price of that sack of potatoes on two wheels again?

[@ronwhite8503]

Too much.

[@dogshmog]

Chicken or the egg? The only person in my family that was a Harley addict was a 65 year old chemical company executive who liked going out on the weekend dressed as a woman.

[@rustymustard7798]

I might be 'old' at 50, but i'm not 'Harley old' yet lol. Maybe when i can't rip wheelies over rock gardens anymore i'll be ready to build an old Knucklehead from parts.

[@LouisGiliberto]

55 here and still not "Harley Old" -- just want to let you know you have at least 5 more years, lol. I'm probably going to go one of the other roads for old riders - either Goldwing or CanAm. Goldwing if I still can do the weight and balance, 3-wheel CanAm otherwise.

[@rustymustard7798]

@@LouisGiliberto Yeah, i want an old Goldwing to set up as a distance tourer.

[@GodzillaGoesGaga]

You’ve still got 20+ years of non Harley days left in you. Get a nice sports bike that’ll make you grin ear to ear!

[@schrodingersmechanic7622]

I've got an old valkyrie, an old FireBlade, and a CRF. The only one that makes me giggle like a kid is the FireBlade. I don't care how old I am. If I can ride, there will be a ridiculous sport bike in my stable

[@GodzillaGoesGaga]

@@schrodingersmechanic7622 SWEET! I’d love one of those !!

[@ilikelampshades6]

When £5000 bikes offer more performance, reliability, cornering, comfort, practicality, economy and you avoid the embarrassing HD badge, why would you spend £20,000 on a HD?

[@JoelRSA-USA]

Chairman of sustainability CEO... what did Harley think was going to happen?!!.... if they get a real rider as CEO it will turnaround overnight. they have such a loyal following that a half decent new bike will be a major jump for them.

[@fullmetalcorgi1350]

A real rider can't be CEO. Buying a Harley shows that you are objectively bad with money

[@JoelRSA-USA]

@@fullmetalcorgi1350 but that's what we needs... Counter steering... Shake and bake

[@fullmetalcorgi1350]

@@JoelRSA-USA hear me out... We give all CEOs to the French

[@simonapeters4372]

Harley-Davidson is going to price their self right out of business

[@patrickagan1071]

Either a version of the Bronx comes out and they start to continue that direction or they go under...

[@onoes9646]

I wonder who'd buy them out in the latter case.

[@joule7256]

Outdated tech, high price, shoddy reliability, expensive services, crazy dealership fees. They are just bad bikes all around if you value your money unless you just want a used sportster.

[@Full_Deflection]

Bro thinks batteries haven’t been around for 50 years.

[@aidens04]

Great videos mate. Doing brilliantly since you know what happened 🤟🏼

[@Skidz75]

Can you imagine a “standard” motorcycle or even a cafe racer from HD? Use the Rev Max? Just a thought.

[@davidbrayshaw3529]

Yes, I can.

[@amatteroftimeisuppose8900]

The bulk of young people want a sub $10k motorcycle. Look at all of the people that ride Honda Groms, I see them everywhere. If HD mad a single bike around $8k msrp that directly points to young people in both style and reliability. They want to treat themselves to a motorcycle, not burden themselves with a colossal loan.

[@neonsamurai1348]

The major problem with electrics (other than range) is you have to replace the battery every 1-6 years depending on use and charging habits, as the maximum range steadily decreases each time you charge the battery pack. Vehicle battery packs are VERY expensive, and can cost between 30-50% of the price of a new vehicle excluding labor. That and the whole thing about them being green is an utter lie. The mining of lithium and nickel is very bad for the environment (lithium also requires a lot of fresh water, 2 million liters per tonne of lithium), and most of these electric vehicles are coal/nuclear powered.

[@fullmetalcorgi1350]

I'm a bleeding heart treehugger, but you aren't exactly wrong, but ya ain't right either. Apples to apples emissions and waste generation favor EVs after less that 50k miles on average. Great for cars where you actually replace an ICR trip, less meaningful for bikes where it's a toy. Also, batteries last much much longer now. I've got 14k miles on my EV build and I've only lost 3%. That's 1 mile of range when I'm going 60 mph. And nuclear is much greener than coal

[@RatBike750]

When you use a thicker cylinder sleeve to lower displacement you add weight. You are also running a frame designed for more power and weight, so you end up with a pig. A few years ago I asked my local HD sales guy if the smaller Pan America was going to have a lighter package and he looked at me like I was from Mars.

[@duc_ravioli]

They need to make a sporty naked bike like the Indian FTR1200 and then like you said a sub 10K 800cc version of it. As a Ducati Panigale rider that would be the only way I would consider buying a Harley. Seriously look what Ducati has done with their scrambler line. They sold over 7000 800cc Scramblers last year.

[@SheppC42]

The FTR is a FUN ride

[@simonapeters4372]

They need to make a 750 entry level bike again