"Greatest Of All Time" Isn't A Helpful Idea

[@isuckatnames6033]

I met Hbox at a petting zoo. He was talking with one of the baby goats and struggling to hold back tears. I asked him, "are you doing okay, friend?" He shook his head solemnly. "Everyone forgets that goats are herd animals. We're not meant to be alone." ~Deep Leffen

[@dewroot5176]

I first heard the term "GOAT" to describe this Indian lady at our middle school because she made physics fun to learn as a kid and we all loved her

[@800kbees]

yeah i'm not even sure how the "GOAT" conversation started. It rejects the idea that the entire scene becomes better overtime, and gives the idea that "this person is better than you will ever be and we will never be able to top their feats". kind of unhealthy if you think about it.

[@edfreak9001]

tbf i'm pretty sure it stems from the idea of physical sports and the toppest of top players that are commemorated in it, to the point of being idolized even outside of their field. Babe Ruth comes to mind.

[@rbarua3368]

Some of the ways I see it used is definitely hyperbole, because a lot of sports will have people claiming two contemporary people as the GOAT, at the same time! There are people who don’t understand how competition even in a “static” sport evolves, but I don’t think the “GOAT” conversation makes people believe that. Top players worth their salt in many sports are not likely to call themselves the “GOAT”. So, it then becomes only the fans and analysts who discuss this. And, if you actually were to get talking to them, they should be hard pressed to actually claim that their favorite sport is in a worse position in the current day than it was in the past. It is not in a competitor’s best interest to be considering those things, as they are not important to help someone improve. But, I don’t think it is a harmful thing for outsiders to engage in a “GOAT” discussion.

[@malcovich_games]

GOAT* *as of June 23, 2024

[@isaacmillen8789]

I don't think that the Goat debate rejects the evolution of sports at all. Think about Babe Ruth. People still argue that Babe Ruth is the GOAT of baseball because he played extraordinarily well given the era that he was in. I also don't think that it perpetuates the idea that "We will never be able to top their feats", if anything, I'd say it does the opposite. "Look at this person, look at how dominant they were in their prime, look at how well they play, that's who we're trying to be better than"

[@SimoneBellomonte]

@@edfreak9001Whos babe ruth? 🗿

[@BSengen]

Notably, the phrase “all time” also includes the future. And that’s all I can contribute to this conversation

[@dewroot5176]

and the past

[@isaacmillen8789]

Well that's one reading of the term, but I think that, given the context, it's more natural to read it more as "Greatest player to ever play", and that doesn't include people from the future, because they haven't yet played.

[@SimoneBellomonte]

@@isaacmillen8789Yeah exhractly, itsh just dumb to asshrume that people are also talking about the future (especially when u take into account evolution), only ignorantsh would thrink that, so on the other hand ALSHO assuming that most think like this is also dumb, if not even dumber lol.

[@AvaiLeon]

​@@isaacmillen8789 "Of all time" would naturally include the future. If you wanted to exclude the future and only refer to players that have already played in games that have already happened, that would just be "in history."

[@isaacmillen8789]

@@AvaiLeon I'm sorry if this comes across as mean, but I don't understand how in any way shape or form "of all time would naturally include the future" given the context. Even if it did, that's not how anyone treats the term.

[@sagittariusa2145]

Counterpoint: goat is a funny word to call someone as a compliment (But yes you make very good points)

[@omgryannn]

no, that is not where it came from…

[@SimoneBellomonte]

@@omgryannn???

[@ShowersTheVap]

This is a lesson I didn't know I needed. Huh. When my particular competitive scene of interest was still exceptionally new (to the point of its tournaments having roughly half a dozen entrants back then), I used to be considered one of the top players in the world, with an unmatched win record and high-level victories against many other prominent figures in the scene, from across the globe. But, as the scene grew, its meta developed into requiring a skillset that I simply didn't have, or at least, not to the same level as other rising competitors, and I fell out of top-level competition - eventually, falling out of competition altogether. Ever since then, I'd always felt a sense of failure, of disappointment in myself for not being able to keep up with the scene; I doubted if any of my accomplishments back then really "mattered", because I felt they were completely outclassed by the accomplishments of better players that came later. But, the idea of "accomplishment" is so incredibly relative. Relative to the scene around it, relative to the other people present at the time, relative to what ideas may or may not exist yet. I wouldn't exactly call myself a "pioneer" of much in that scene, but the ideas I brought to the table definitely helped shape the foundations of what would later become that scene's early metagame. And honestly... that's enough to be proud of. There's no need to feel *ashamed* of not keeping up with a scene. Time's change, and this video has been a big lesson for me, in especially the idea that comparing today to last year (or some other arbitrary period in the past) doesn't really achieve a whole lot. I used to be a top-level Tableturf player, in the early days of Splatoon 3. Nowadays, I'm just a retired squid that hangs out in the community Discord and chats to people. And today I learned, I can just be satisfied with that. Thanks Gem! ♥

[@rbarua3368]

This is nice to hear. I think anyone can have some pride for what they have done. And, for a competitor, it’s good to understand that the further time passes from when you competed in Tableturf, objective comparisons become much harder. I don’t play Tableturf, but if I were to get into it I don’t think it would be useful to compare myself to you or anyone else who competed in the early days and may have stopped. The way the game is played has changed.

[@giganticmoon]

man i wish i could teleport to tableturf

[@carlos41519]

Competitors that play great and have top statistics despite facing personal challenges have the right to be considered the GOAT. The GOAT convo is just a subjective conversation thats meant to be entertaining.

[@fydiousmckormick]

Yep, this video doesn't need to exist. A splatoon youtuber doesn't need to be the word police.

[@carlos41519]

@@fydiousmckormick this video has good points but it really does feel like word policing lol

[@SohakmetGameplay]

And even then, he misses the point all the same. Calling someone the GOAT usually takes into consideration their dominance and achievements is their time period and against the relative competition of the time. For example: Many consider Hamilton or Schumacher to be the GOAT of F1, but other people consider Senna simply due to his unbridled stats, racing performance and going against some incredibly tough competition at the time, despite having less titles (perhaps dying before tapping his full potential also comes into the conversation.). Magnus Carlsen is the undisputed GOAT of chess, no questions asked. Man dominates in a scene where everyone learns with computers and the game is essentially solved as soon as there are 7 pieces remaining on the board. It all takes into consideration their relative circumstances. Also, saying that someone isn't the GOAT because we simply don't have a way to predict the future or because competition always gets better is just silly. Word policing for sure.

[@SpeedyDolphin27]

Glad y’all said this. I’ve enjoyed every other squid school video i’ve seen, but this one seemed to miss the mark a bit.

[@theghostcreator776]

Unrelated note but whenever I see or play on manta maria clams it's always from loser pov or I pretty much always lose Conspiracy theory: no one can win on manta clams, the people you play against on manta clams aren't real /j

[@d0ubl3d]

This is true according to me clams losing streak on manta

[@hallaloth3112]

This is you just don't play Manta Clams. . .or Solo Clams in general.

[@21bucks]

yeah, but if anyone asks. its me.

[@derpycows671]

Maybe we can replace it with GOAT (Greatest Of All, Temporarily)

[@mjdevlog]

Greatest Of A moment in Time

[@MuhammadIlhamuodd254512]

Greatest Of All time (in Temporarily time)

[@MAN-MILK]

Gretzky is a legend, I agree GOAT is not a very useful conversation, but I do think that legends have a place in any field

[@mogaku776]

Did you forget Mango is a time traveller?

[@deadtiredbarista]

I think it’s from a matter of perspective. Some people that want to involve themselves in the competitive scene, want to be a top player. They see players who achieve great feats like hitting 3k, top 10 and winning majors and want to do the same. They see these players as the greatest of all time even when there’s no definitive goat in Splatoon at the point. You can look at sports that have a regular season and a post season, they play for a definitive tournament to determine the best team. I’d say there’s no grand tournament because there’s so many majors that hold a lot of value. Splatoon World Championship, Luti, Sendou, etc. You can argue that the world championships hold the most weight, however, they aren’t held every year, which every sports championship tournament does. Back in turn to what I said previously about no definitive best player, I can’t name off the top of my head, who would be the best player in Splatoon because you can argue there’s multiple ways to argue that point. Is it based on who has the highest X power ever? Is it a player who won the most tournaments? Stuff like that. In sports it’s more clear cut based on stats, and there’s only one post season tournament they play for a title. However, that doesn’t even account for the Olympics, where they play against people from around the world or the World Cup. TLDR: there is no definitive goat in Splatoon, in sports it’s a little more clear but the goat conversation can have meaning if you take something positive from it.

[@GoldenVictini22]

gameboy you still owe me $17

[@deadtiredbarista]

How about a hug instead

[@Xonequis]

Reminds me of that one time Tom Brady & the Patriots went undefeated for a season only to lose to the New York Giants at the Super Bowl

[@be1tube]

Dating advice version: It does not matter how good people were in the past or will be in the future. What matters is how you show up for your partner right now-as a lover, confidant, friend, encourager, or person running to the grocery store. You don't need to be the greatest of all time; just be here, now, loving them and enjoying the moment.

[@giganticmoon]

CONFIDANT?! PERSONA 5?

[@birddaughter]

GOATs be like "baa"

[@rbarua3368]

This might not be how most people who currently discuss a “GOAT” see it, but I do like the framing where the comparisons come from a dream scenario where two legends of different eras compete against each other. Impractical for actually determining who would be better, but fun. Who would win? Example: Garry Kasparov vs. a chess World Champion from the 19th century. They could both be seen as masters of the game, yet their styles would be quite different as they played in completely different time periods, and when how the game was played was also quite different. Theorycrafting a match like this would just highlight how chess has evolved over time.

[@This-Was-Sparta]

Yeah, I never really understood this conversation either tbh. It's like people feel some kind of need to mythologize sports players/whoever else. They can't just be really good, they have to be the _best,_ while, like you said, these sports have since developed a lot and are now miles from where they were when those players were playing, or even alive in some instances. Go ahead and celebrate their talents but leave the weird powerscaling out of it.

[@doctorlion]

I’m pretty sure I never use GOAT seriously, I only really use it to gas up teammates. Sometimes I’ll use it to say a player is very good at the game, but I never actually mean Greatest Of All Time. It’s colloquial use is all that I use it for

[@Magic_Mango]

Isn't the term greatest of all time just an exaggeration?

[@fydiousmckormick]

It's almost like this video doesn't need to extist. 😂

[@LuddyFish_]

To take a quote from Haikyuu: "To think someone is good as they are for no real reason at all, you've already to them without stepping in the ring. It's *rude,* plain and simple."

[@cultmecca]

This is the video of all time

[@Mimiyan_or_Pikapikafan]

Wow this is really good regardless of what game you're playing, hell whatever you're competing in

[@Psycho0Noob]

no no i thought i left league of legends behind me, don't put ''Faker'' in the thumbnail, no don't remind me of that game please

[@BlahajGoesNom]

Gem the GOAT

[@Glueeeater]

This should have been a rouge English teacher topic

[@marietrans8950]

You should play Baby Jelly Cup and make a video about it cuz tableturf is epic and cool

[@delta_power3049]

You're the GOAT Gem

[@icarlygod]

"VonLongDong" is the closest thing we'll get to cuss words on this channel

[@SquidSchool]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/d6vZYnmNjqx4jJYsi=aIG6fRA3ST8dl39H&t=500

[@DarkWizardFoxo]

woah no funny bit before the intro??? thats pretty rare

[@Sunray625]

I fully agree but people outside of melee not understanding why a fruit is a goat is inherently funny

[@Noremfor]

Napoleon Bonaparte was the only real GOAT

[@han_solo_under_the_table]

Apply this video to literally any other sport or esport

[@edfreak9001]

This is absolutely on that genre of talks where "the people who need to hear this are actively ignoring anything that will be said" People yearn for "heroes" to worship, this is why people being parasocial with content creators they like is so common. They want to believe in an incorruptible being who stands at the top of their field and doesn't need to be thought of in any terms except strictly positive goodfeel thoughts. They're so good at The Thing that they'll beat anyone regardless of what's being used. It's a comforting thought, but it's still wrong.

[@rbarua3368]

I think it’s something deeply ingrained in a lot of people, or there wouldn’t even be gods of religion. Humans are fallible beings, and it is comforting for many to imagine something that looks like us, and yet is infallible in some way, capable of making no mistakes or errors.

[@giganticmoon]

I’m a GOAT! 🧑‍🌾🐐 i hate this

[@epicsause21]

Mango

[@GazalaRose]

I get where you're coming from, and while I mostly agree, I don't think "GOAT" is primarily used because people think it's helpful. It can absolutely be harmful if the term is taken too seriously, but I feel that it's often given to people who aren't neccesarily the most talented at they do, but are incredibly influential and likable. Your perspective almost seems like you want to rid of the term completely (which would be terrible), but that's probably not the case. And with all due respect, I don't think you're the right person to talk about this.

[@Saltience]

goated and so based based based based goated based goated goated base W goated based W W based goatee’d based W pog based W goated based based baste goated W based goated goated VV based pog goated based superlatives are my new mortal enemy

[@carlosmadureira2601]

I don’t agree with this video Goats do exist it’s all about consistency and and compounding achievements being those trophies, stats over time or even amazing plays that flabergast everyone if you pull them of often enough. If you have a career where you played 10 tournaments and you were 7 of those mvp you have a strong claim to goat status if compared to other players you have more mvps what I do agree is thet goats can be beaten there will always rise someone to beat your records or achievements and obfuscate all be it a decade later but you’ll still be the a hall of famer. Sumerized goat is status of the best player of all time if someone gets better achievements he overthrows you and he becomes the new goat. In football we had Maradona pele, than Ronaldo Messi, and now mbappe and holland that are already breaking Ronaldo’s records. For now Ronaldo remains the goat because he has all the records the question is how long till someone surpasses him.

[@pineappleguy3343]

Marie the greatest of all time though let's get real

[@blitzkrieg9800]

Not really a video topic i expected from you gem but its a welcome surprise nonetheless

[@hollowfoundry]

This silly discourse has taken over too many sports already, we have to keep it away from Splatoon at least lol

[@fydiousmckormick]

Stick to tips on splatoon.

[@SquidSchool]

This video is about adopting a certain mindset to help people improve at Splatoon

[@Jako3334074]

spotted the guy who ignored gem's dating advice

[@toad8576]

Except mango he's the goat

[@jakotens]

that’s okay gem. let’s start using the phrase “Greatest Of Their Time” (GOTT) instead so we can all start saying “un mein gott!” about our favorites 😊

[@burburr8520]

Yeah whatever mang0 still the GOAT

[@47slogra]

no

[@milospc6286]

LeBron is the goat tho

[@47slogra]

no

[@SpectreBonk]

Reject GOAT (greatest of all time) embrace GORNIG (greatest of right now I guess)

[@SpectreBonk]

Or GITCMG (greatest in the current meta game) or BPRN (best player right now) or even TPWTS (that person won that set)

[@Rootof-2]

Second

[@didgeridooo]

I dont even think that conversation makes sense, to me the greatest =/= the best, sorta like how muhammad ali clearly isnt the best boxer, but hes most definitely the greatest