[SS14] This Shift Shows PERFECTLY Why Revolutionaries is a Bad Gamemode

[@faurana]

as some random guy with barely 100h on this game, my most basic opinion is that revs shouldn't be considered full antags? the entire point of a revolution is to take over the station, not convert it into a smoldering husk of scrap metal and lethal gases. the converted revs shouuld basically be on the level of thiefs in terms of antag permission with a violence pass for sec and command and everything else requiring voiced permission by a headrev.

[@andrewgreeb916]

Yeah, I remember the second rev shift I had, they converted med and absolutely trashed the station, I did my best to save the revs dying in medbay, but frankly the station was so destroyed eventually all I could tell the people I revive "welcome to a hell of our own making". That and stopping the revs from killing restrained mind shielded people in medbay. The fundamental issue with revs is that people see that r and think they're an antag

[@BOAxdog]

It blows my mind that EVERY cadet has a book about space law. They just toss it like it's thier survival box

[@draconisfiresworn4240]

>0 attacks on security >literally just got out of sec for welderbombing them I do agree with the vid, just thought this was funny

[@AcornANut]

I meant more like ambushes or something but thats pretty funny yeah

[@Pascij]

I honestly agree with your opinion. I do love revs alot, but even when i only play mrp and hrp, metagaming is a headache. I would love if revs have different options to convert, like you said, they hear a flash BAM Mindshields everywhere. I personally think the issue is much bigger, not because revs need a overhaul, i reall believe that the grand issue is GAMEMODE itself. Like on ss13, there are several antags which can appear early, mid and late round. I think it will enhance the game by removing gamemodes itself and let nukies, revs, zombies, antags appear in a round by chance. I have such a big problem in mrp that the moment the timer hits 1 hour everyone screaming and crying about to evac. Just to get a new round and have a chance for nukies... A round should not ending until it reall has to, some servers in ss13 has this where the admins can just revoke shuttle call if you dont have a good reason.

[@AcornANut]

Revs being allowed in this state is largely due to the antag starvation yeah.

[@ProfRenderer]

Revs as a gamemode is fundamentally flawed due to a lot of what you described. The metagaming dilemma of admins bwoinking the initial metagamer especially. The gamemode is just a walking metagame that people can't stop falling into. It's a headache for me especially, a spacelaw-abiding secoff main who just goes through the motions. Once revs are involved, the whole station is fucked for secoffs due to the metagame issue.

[@AcornANut]

Absolutely agree.

[@CaelleakNavinski-u8m]

Revs is in a complete disarray right now, often not able to be acknowledged earlier on without metagaming. It needs a complete overhaul imo, as it seems the station has a better time defending against literal nuclear operatives rather than an internal revolution.

[@GNF54]

me when I’m in a mid competition and my opponents are Nukies and Revs

[@cuccibro]

peash, regarding sec having lethals. they literally deconverted you they knew it was revs at that point, going red and arming when you have a confirmed deconversion is fine. also "zero attacks on sec" lmao bro you literally welderbombed 3 of them.

[@tropicalowl8847]

SS14 contributor here (not for wizden ew) Revs is bad simply because it's a carbon copy from SS13, SS13 and SS14 are at a point that they are nowhere close to eachother balance-wise, forget content, this is simply about balancing. In SS13 you die with one to two shotgun blasts, to crazy assistants holding chairs and sometimes even because you looked wrong at some glowing material, in SS13 the crowbar in some servers does almost the same damage as 14's fireaxe, and both games use the same damage system so yes, this observation is relevant. In SS14 you can survive a magdump from several weapons and without localized damage something as simple as a helmet can make you way too tanky. I rest my case.

[@BOAxdog]

Revs = TDM : revs vs crew, but the crew doesn't know.

[@lifeless1408]

at 10:33 he says that there was no attack on sec nor command so it isnt justified having lethals. Wouldnt the welderbomb count as an attack? Just wanna point that out

[@fernando47180]

The reason tiders know space law better than secoffs, is that those who are invested enough in the game to read the law, are also generally not interested in playing Security. That's one of the reasons Security is in such a state. Its easy to see when Sec has a skill issue, but les speople point out how the people with skills seek other roles.

[@texaspeach2893]

“I may be a tider, but I have STANDARDS” lmao 😂😂😂

[@andrewgreeb916]

Haven't ever really had a rev round I'd say I had fun in, they all just fall apart. Anything that was going well just gets blown up or the interactions you were having just stop because apparently it's the arbitrary time to seek and destroy the station. There's no interesting strategies from either side it's just the same stuff or people overdoing antag status.

[@admiralobvious]

The problem is that if you let revs slide and expand the whole thing turns into a glorified TDM anyways. Plays an officer not metagaming, arrest the head rev, grill them over "where the fuck did you get this flash (I know it having more than 2 charges means something as sec I'd say), who did you steal it from". Get a small bit of RP out of the arrest and the 3 minute detainment. We don't mindshield because we respect the metashield, but we 100% know. Meanwhile another headrev has converted all of cargo, stolen the cargo, common and sec encryption key and then they just buy guns and kill everyone that walks past cargo. The mode would *maybe* be fine if the people who played it weren't shitters about it. Also not gonna bash you for it, but following the headrev around near the start of the shift would have pissed me off because I've seen people ask to be *brainwashed* before on Lizard. 0/10 will cryo out of all rev rounds again.

[@AcornANut]

Ill admit it was a wee bit silly to follow him around

[@fourhead6651]

It doesn't help that admins don't enforce this well enough, sec goes unpunished way too much.

[@Joe-nv3mm]

I thank you so MUCH for making this video

[@AcornANut]

Might make a part 2 or 3 soon, got a few shifts where very similar things happen

[@thurtik5251]

Revolutionaries are fine, people just gotta stop metagaming. Yes, there could be mechanical changes to how the gamemode works to make metagaming less likely (like getting rid of the headrevs's dependency on flashes), but that doesn't excuse a deletion of the entire gamemode and instead rev rounds should be more heavily moderated and morons like the captain or security you showcased punished.

[@AcornANut]

Heres the issue: If one member of the station, a single one, metagames revs, then the whole round is ruined. if a single person doesnt read the rules, makes a single mistake, etc. the entire round is ruined. Moderating metagamers is much easier when its nukies or syndies, since the one guy who metagames the uplinks has a much smaller effect on the round than the station-wide round ruining.

[@4dmost991]

Revs heads need a better way to mecanically hide what they are and what they do, maybe with diferent methods of conversion that allow more gameplay choices, chamaleon glasses to avoid metagaming and mindshields being removable (maybe with surgery) the later would also allow more gameplay to another antags like syndies stealing a mindshield from a dead secoff they killed

[@wraithdino1217]

whats funny is that there is an implanter med can craft that can remove implants...except mindshields because fuck you revs

[@andrewgreeb916]

Medbay implanter, any implant can come out

[@wraithdino1217]

@@andrewgreeb916 except mindshields, they cant be removed because....reasons

[@andrewgreeb916]

@@wraithdino1217 wow, who comes up with stuff, half this game is cool interactions the other half less cool interactions. You have people who code it so a rat in a chef hat can control a person wearing it like Ratatouille, and at the same time you have people coding in weird exceptions like that.

[@thorjelly]

I don't understand why revs don't try to be more subtle about it. Can't they just, keep their flash and glasses in their pocket until they actually want to use it?? You know, not in a public ass place?

[@Riya-ho5zv]

I dunno what the last rework was even about. It's still the same gamemode it always was

[@Lentil_1]

Thank God I was not apart of that shift. I do agree that revs is a terrible gamemode with a crap ton of flaws.

[@danielg6786]

I think revs need more structure and truth be told with how much I love the game mode in its current state it shouldn’t be on LRP. In its current state both sides need to understand what they’re doing because a lot of crew get that antag spot and then go, “Sweet! Time to kill all the mindshielded people I see aka all the people who aren’t revs. I think this game mode has a ton of potential but half the time it sinks horribly because one side or the other power games or metas or when converted will ignore it and continue doing what they were doing before.