Stair Framing # I

[@TheBryeCooper]

Excellent vid Ed, thanks for taking the time to educate us with your priceless experience. All the best and cheers.

[@Smallgot83]

Thanks for a great video Ed! I've been framing for a few 4 years now and stairs is the "Last" thing I have to learn. You covered somethings that many other videos have not covered, great tips sir! Much appreciated!

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

Thank you Adam for the kind words. Good luck with your studies. It takes a life time.

[@nmort09]

For a DIYer like myself, this was the best stair building video I've viewed so far(out of 30 vids)..Thanks Ed.

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

Thanks Neil, I'm pleased that you found the video useful.

[@Fetecheney]

In a modern age and booming building market, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your expertise and time. I'm not alone as a guy with decent experience and devotion to quality but has gaps of knowledge on what to do with certain things with carpentry. However the job has to be done right, so I rely on people like you to bridge the gap in my ignorance. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

Thank you Kyle. Cheers. I watch KZbin videos all the time, for the same reason.

[@Jay-tk7ib]

Good video. I learned framing 23 years ago, and, except for a few minor points, you teach stair building closer to how I was taught than anyone I've seen on here. I was taught to never over cut the marks, but to finish the cuts with a handsaw or jigsaw .You do bring up a good point about there being plenty of nails into the wall, but I'd still not cut past my marks. We always used a third stringer, and we even put a 2X4 stiffener on the bottom edge of each one. Thanks for the video.

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

Thanks Jerry. There is always more than one way to correctly skin a cat.

[@spudmourph73]

Really enjoyed that, best video I seen on stairs regards from Ireland..

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

I've got a nephew living somewhere in Ireland, he's been there about ten years working with the SSPX.

[@randallsmith7885]

Thank you sir! Best explanation I have seen for stair design and layout!

[@timmcglone7047]

Thanks so much for your video. It is GREAT!!! I've been watching videos for almost 2 weeks, nothing comes close to yours, glad I ran across yours. Be safe and God bless. Tim

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

Tim, thanks for the kind words.

[@bigdaddy4975]

I can’t breathe watching this

[@davel3745]

Thanks for the video! Answered my questions. Great job!

[@robertbowman4282]

Hi Ed, Excellent video. I'm in a quandary and hopefully, you can help me out. This prairie style home was built in 1854. I am replacing the original stairs. They will be anchored to an exterior wall on one side and a kneewall on the other. 11-7/8" LSLs will be used, a stair span of 40", and a nosing of 1-1/2". The total rise is 116" and run of 111", possibly pushed to 112". I cannot extend any further due to a joist at the top and a main door at the bottom, while maintaining a 36" minimum landing at both ends. The question is the number of runs/rises. (Using 1" thick treads and 3/4" risers all in oak). Currently, it is at 13 runs/14 rises, the cuts would be 8-17/32" and 8-9/32". At 14/15, we're at 7-15/16" and 7-23/32". At 112", with 13/14 we have 8-5/8" and 8-9/32. With 14/15, we're at 8" and 7-23/32. What would be your recommendation? My opinion is the widest tread possible would have a greater safety factor than riser height, so 13/14. Lastly, would you recommend a center carriage (stringer)? The underside will be used for storage. Thanks for your time and effort.

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

Robert, you are in a fix. With a total rise of 116" you will need 15 risers of 7.7334". Which means you will need 14 treads of 10", which equals 140" stair run. You only have 112". 112 / 14 = 8". If you have enough head room you can add a landing and use a 90 deg. stair. If there is room at the top, move the landing point back 28" - 30". Is it possible to move the door at the bottom of the stair? Maximum riser height is 8". Minimum tread depth is 9". 9" X 14 = 126" stair run, which would save 14". Of course you would need to rip the treads down to 10.5". I hope this helps.

[@robertbowman4282]

Thanks for the response. The joist that the stairs are attached to, at the top, sits on a wall. The other side of that wall (first floor) is the dining room. Underneath the stairs is a door that leads to the cellar. So, I cannot push the stairs in that direction. The door at the bottom of the stairs is the main entrance door to the house. Headroom is at 7' exactly. So, I am stuck. There is no way to build a stairway that will meet current requirements. This brings us back to my question, with your experience, would you consider tread depth, or riser height to be the most important consideration?

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

Robert, I would cut the treads 9" (actual tread 10.5") and let the risers be what they may. Sometimes you're just stuck.

[@dculbre]

Holy cow this is some damned good information!!!!!!!!!

[@ooopaulo]

Hey, Ed. I'm in Eugene too! Thanks for the nice tutorial. I'm currently fixing the worst set of stairs I've ever seen in a house. 1st step up is 12 inches, next two are 7 inches up, then 8, then 10, etc... Different tread depths, too. Everyone trips on them. I don't know what the builder was smoking.

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

He wasn't smoking cigarettes. Good luck on them stairs.

[@sheldonharvey8306]

When framing exterior stairs, should I not pitch the treads so that water will run down--and off the stairs, to avoid water damage to the framing?

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

Sheldon, I would not pitch the treads towards the front, this would make a very uncomfortable stair. I suppose one could add a center horse and raise it 1/6" or so and bend the treads down on the ends. This would shed water quite well. Except for deck stairs I've never built an outside stair, and these always lasted as long as the deck. Any apartment buildings I worked on always had concrete and steel outside stairs.

[@knecht105]

thanks Ed

[@edwh164]

please expain why the bottom riser needs to be less than the rest ? thanks ed

[@infinitytothepowerofinfini8216]

Great video. Thank you sir.

[@tommybaker4330]

My understanding is that according to IRC code, residential stairways must be at least 36" wide. Wall studs are 16" on center and second stud would not reach to outside stringer as shown in your drawing. Do you attach a second stud to the outside of the "prime" stud to provide support? This would pertain to a staircase attached to a wall. If a naked staircase to a landing, you could just put studs wherever you needed them???

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

There would be no reason to double the end studs of the bearing wall unless there were no intersecting wall. On interior walls it is permissible in most jurisdictions to frame walls with 24" O.C. studs. Yes, one always puts studs where needed, or required by the code. If you were putting a sloped wall under the outside stair stinger it would be good to use a single 2x4 top plate with studs at 16" or 24" O.C., or you could use flat studs nailed directly to the stringer; I've done it both ways, both ways are OK. Stairs must be a minimum of 36" finish wall to finish wall.

[@Verdolaga52]

String length is 163 and 1/16" and the angle is 37.80° do you think this is correctly or not thanks for sharing great explanation

[@Verdolaga52]

And i use fot tread thickness 1 and 1/2"

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

A squared X B squared equals C squared. Simple trig will give the angle. Many years ago I was precious metals broker with my older brother and a good friend; these two had real high math skills. I ask them to figure a set of stairs, six hours later they had completely out figured themselves with geometry and trigonometry. In five minutes I solved the problem. I do however use the Pythagorean theorem for roof framing, but only because I have a four function calculator with a square root button. As a beginning carpenter one of the first things you're taught is the 3-4-5 method of squaring a roof, floor, slab or foundation. A good carpenter need only know a bit of geometry and simple math and possess common sense and the ability to see 3D images in his mind. I hope the video was helpful.

[@fergie62]

Should you take the thickness of the tread used off the overall height before you start calculating rise and run .

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

No. All your risers would be to low making the treads out of level.

[@anthonyromano8565]

Would you leave the overhang for carpeted stairs or would you use an angled cut back riser so there is no overhang? Or is each acceptable?

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

Anthony, either way is acceptable, though I prefer the look of steps having an overhang (nosing), especially so when one or both sides are open.

[@doi467]

im building deck stairs. 30.5 inches deck to ground/ 4 step stringer ( 3 actual steps)/ math made the rise 7 and 5/8, for the run i chose 9 inches ( this is where i think i might be wrong?). if i use 2x8 for rise and 2x10 for run i don't have an overhang on each step. how do i solve this....this is my first kick at the cat and i may need to cut new stringers...any help would be appreciated tks

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

When space is not limited I will always use 2x12s for stringers, cut them 10" X 7.625". Keep the 2X8s for toe kicks (risers). Get some 2x6 for treads. Leave a little gap behind the 2x6 next to the riser and a small gap between the two 2x6 used as treads. If the wood is extremely wet don't leave a gap because the wood will shrink providing enough air gap. This should give you about 1.5" overhang. I'm sitting at my computer. If you need more help just post your question, I should be able to respond quickly.

[@doi467]

@@edwaggonersr.7446 thank you sir i will try this. 1.5" inch seems like a big overhang but its better than no overhang...tks alot i wish i could show you how it turned out, cheers

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

@@doi467 Actually a 1.5" nosing is pretty typical. In some jurisdictions when a riser (toe board) isn't used a 5" overhang is required, meaning the treads would be 15" deep.

[@mikewilliams1366]

Thanks for making this Ed! If installing stringers from subfloor to subfloor, how do you accommodate for the future install of 3/4" thick hardwood floor at the bottom and at the top of the stairs, using 1" thick pine treads, so that the risers will all come out to the same height?

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

Mike, if you're the same thickness of flooring top and bottom there is no adjustment needed, assuming you are going to put the same flooring on the treads. If the treads get a different thickness of flooring raise the whole stringer by the difference between what you put on the treads and what you put on the floors.

[@frailpel]

How did u come up with 14 if the space is empty to begin with? Shouldn’t u start by measuring the top of the landing to the deck below (107.625) and divide it by what u think the rise should be normally 7? So 107.625/7 which gives u 15.375 stairs?!

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

Ant Pel, Yes. I usually divide the total rise by 7" to get started. If there is room to add another tread then I add another riser. If dividing by 7" gives too many treads then I deduct one riser and one tread. Don't let me confuse you, you got it right.

[@stephens2850]

Hi Ed, How do you run a skirting down the stair ? Or do you just leave the tread butting against the drywall ?

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

Nail a 2x4 to the wall to space the stringer 1.5" out. This will make room for sheetrock and skirting. Sometimes builders don't use a skirt; in this case use a 1x4 to space the stringer away from the wall.

[@robertkelly9772]

I have a customer who has a deck with 10" treads and 7" risers. He wants to increase the treads to 14". Will a 2 x 12 be adequate to serve as the stringer or will cutting out that much material weaken the stringer to the point of failure? If the 2 x 12 is not sufficient for 14" treads how can I make the necessary modifications to pull this off? Anyone's input on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

Robert, if you add the tread depth to the riser height the sum should equal between 16" and 18" typically in residential construction. If you cut your stringers at 14" tread depth the riser height should be reduced to 5" or less, but never less than 4". I'm pretty sure 2 X 12 stingers will work.

[@robertkelly9772]

Ed Waggoner Sr. Thanks for you reply Ed!

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

Carter, I been at this for fifty-one years. I've never heard or read of such a rule of thumb. Using a 2x14 tread one would cut the stinger 12" x 7" or less on the riser, this leaves 5-3/8" of uncut stinger. It the stair span was long one could double it by adding an additional 2 X 6 sistered to the stringer.

[@lacihalasz]

Rule of thumb is from economies and business lol

[@fergie62]

Thanks for a great video

[@spudmourph73]

Would love to see a video of yours on how Newell posts and handrails are fitted to a stairs like this, thanks

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

Callum, I was a framing carpenter and later a framing contractor. I never learned the fine details of building high quality stairs. Guys that build beautiful stairs with fancy rails are a different breed of "carpenter". Hell they are artists in a class of their own. I'd have to watch hours of videos to even come close to building a fine set of stairs.

[@spudmourph73]

Ed Waggoner Sr. K, understand, thanks

[@vernalwalters]

I have a question, if my rise is 7 1/4 and my run is 10 3/4 but my treads are 3inches thick do I subtract the 3inch thick treads from the 7 1/4 when cutting the rise so that when I install the 3inch thick treads it would add back up to the 7 1/4 ,this would be on a single spine timber staircase

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

jr walters: You only cut the thickness of the treads off the bottom of the stringer. Other wise your first riser height will be 7.25 + 3" = 10.75" while the rest will be 7.25". Plus your overall height will be 3" too high if you don't cut the thickness of the tread off the bottom of the stringer.

[@vernalwalters]

thanks i got it

[@KingSobieski]

I demand more radial saw

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

+Jonathan Hess Thanks Jonathan.  Your demand will be met.

[@KingSobieski]

+Ed Waggoner Sr. (Papatch) guess I gotta get an old cast iron one now too

[@whendoesthisend]

was that smoke? lol

[@edwaggonersr.7446]

I had a smoke filter on the camera, you should be fine. But, maybe you should check with your doctor.

[@whendoesthisend]

Lol. Thanks for the class mate

[@thesavorylife7707]

This guy needs to have more cigarettes

[@sonuraj7817]

वीडियो तो अच्छा है भाई साहब लेकिन हिंदी में समझाए तो हिंदी में समझाए तो हमारी भी समझ में आया क्योंकि हम भी राजमिस्त्री है इंग्लिश हमारे को आती नहीं

[@sarwansagar2249]

.

[@BilalAhmad-jc4ct]

stair.dier