Standard VS Flat Neutral VS Cinestyle - Best Picture Profile for Canon M50 - Canon M6 mark ii?

[@leedobson8031]

I watched the video that inspired the comment, that in turn inspired this video. There are a couple of notable videographers that agree using a tweaked neutral profile is a way of achieving a flatter image to play with in post. I haven't watched this in full (saved it) but I will. I just appreciated the way you handled the comment, and wanted to say that. I have both an M50 and an M6mkii that I use mostly for video and came across your channel when looking for ways to get more out the camera b4 I move onto something else. I like your channel and appreciate the fact that you speak clearly and logically.

[@RogerAVHansen]

Thank you 😊 There’s probably many options on tweaked flat profiles in the M50 and the M6 mark ii.. but as long as the workflow works for the user and end result look good, it doesn’t matter how you get there 😊 Really appreciate your comment 😊🙏🏻 Thank you for watching 😊 Hope my future videos will be interesting too 😊

[@candicecan1634]

Great video! Very respectful way to correct a commenter and very helpful information👌🏼

[@RogerAVHansen]

Thank you 😊 I’m glad you liked it 😊 And yes, even if someone disagrees with me I respect that they disagree, I just like to explain my thoughts on the topic 😊 Thank you for watching and commenting 😊

[@ericliao2088]

700th subscriber right here. Thanks so much for taking the time and effort to help the community. This was so helpful, thank you!!

[@RogerAVHansen]

Thank you so much for watching, commenting and subscribing 🤩 Wow, 700 people have subscribed to my channel! I'm honored 😊 Hope you keep watching, and you keep getting some useful information out of my videos 😊

[@ericliao2088]

@@RogerAVHansen absolutely will! Thanks again and stay safe, Roger!

[@TheMusicRecordingNetwork]

My man.... first of all congratulations on clearly winning and teaching me all at the same time. I am trying to learn how to shoot Video using ????... Flat.... and then color grading. Now I kmow the my 2 canons m6 don't turn flat.... lol but I would love to try what you did to come close to flat.... if you say we can get a little more clearer picture I am so down. I sub and I love how you speak and talk so clearly about all this ..... you made 1 mistake, you are a professional to me.... lol Thanks for every word.... I too need to close tye door on hatters .... peace and love always

[@RogerAVHansen]

Thank you 😊 Really appreciate the positive feedback 😊

[@TheChershau]

Thank you for this information!! I search for a long time to find this kind of comparison video!

[@RogerAVHansen]

Glad I could be of some help to you 😊

[@leedobson8031]

Okay I watched the whole thing now, and your flat profile reminds me a little of the 'Prolost' profile. In any case I think you proved your point. Thanks for taking the time to do so. I look forward to seeing what else you do with your M6 mkii.

[@RogerAVHansen]

Thank you for watching 😊 Don’t have any experience with the “prolost” profile. Maybe I should take a look at it 😊

[@DrMCS]

I initially used Cinestyle on my m50 however was not happy with the result. However everything changed when I used it with my m6mkii and sigma 18-35 combo. I was really happy with the quality of my latest video.

[@RogerAVHansen]

Hi! Why were you not happy with the result before using it with the 18-35mm? Is it the softness of the footage? I sometimes find that adding sharpening in post makes the footage pop a lot more. And the 18-35mm is a sharp lens, so it probably sharpens the image a little bit more than other lenses...

[@DrMCS]

@@RogerAVHansen Yeah it's the softness, I didn't have a lot of time exploring the m50 and sigma combo because I Sold my m50 yesterday and upgraded to m6 mk ii. No regrets though. Loving the new cam. Oh btw, nice videos!

[@RogerAVHansen]

@@DrMCS Thank you 😊 The M6 mk 2 is a really good camera. I'm really happy with mine 😊 If you just do KZbin videos where you talk in front of the camera, you dont need to shoot with a flat profile, then Canons normal or standard profile will work great for you 😊

[@NKM_Pixels]

Me too i dont like the result with m50. Can you suggest the best profile for canon m50?

[@davidxiu8020]

I think Cinestyle works better in dark shots and Flat profile in light shots.

[@p_adam19]

13:12 Wow, you live in a very beautiful place!

[@RogerAVHansen]

Thank you 😊 Yes, I do 😊

[@TheElectricAcademy]

great work! You won yourself another subscriber. I've been playing with cinestyle and working on my colour grading. It's such a difference.

[@RogerAVHansen]

Thank you so much for the sub 😊 Hope you find my other videos interesting as well 😊 Colour grading is a difficult skill, and I'm still learning 😊

[@rodricchan]

Thank you for the side by side!

[@RogerAVHansen]

You’re welcome ☺️

[@PedroAnastazi]

Oh boy, here we go again... One thing I dislike about youtubers is the idea that there is a right & wrong way to do things... The way I see it, ppl should go out & discover HOW & WHAT a profile IS, & how that can help your post production. First off, it's NOT an 8bit capture, it's an 8bit finished file & /or hdmi output. Its actually a raw capture at the sensor then processed down with realtime compression. This is verified through the use of Magic Lantern, which unlocks raw recording straight from sensor. K... Moving on.. 1) your neutral profile (don't call it flat coz it's not... ) tweaks aren't correct because simply decreasing a setting, in a baked in 8bit file doesn't give the headspace you need. You're also not exposing it correctly. Your image colour range is baked in, in turn, whatever you do to it is limited to the luma range of what's recorded, with your tweaks locked in & limited to 8bit 420 processing. Your baked file is not recorded to accommodate this limitation. That's the biggest problem I see with youtubers making videos about this... They forget the maths.. You haven't accommodated luma for that small window of colour data ur trying to push . What this means is that you're post tweaks won't have the range u NEED (or expect) to do a proper adjustment /correction. So when using neutral, don't go too far up or down & certainly don't try to acquire a "10bit looking" baked image on an 8bit file .. Sure desaturate, lower contrast & soften sharpness , but thats only useful IF your noise levels are too high &AND ur post tools exceed the quality of image coming out of the box. When shooting "flat" as u call it , use an external 10bit recorder which will ingest that 8bit signal & as it's baked in, will lock that baked 8bit output into a 10bit 422 gradable file. 2) Cinestyle is noisy & not designed for 8bit post processing. Its designed for low noise (Iso 800 or below) & was initially put together over 5yrs ago. Its outdated & hasn't kept up with noise & colour nuances of all the new cameras it's tossed in to. There are 2 variations of Cinestyle floating around which are cleaner & far more useful than base Cinestyle. Either way, as mentioned above, these "flat" profiles bake in the colour & luma & the best way to get the most out of them, is to output that 8bit limited signal to a workable 10bit file. Sure the source was 8bit, & ur stuck with that as a base, however once that baked image is the best it can be, it's 10bit variation can't get any worse. In turn, don't mess up the exposure. Spesh on 8bit. Chk your monitor /scopes. There's 32bit float options available for dealing with this 8bit limited footage but it literally quadruples processing. Best just hardcode the 8bit into a 10bit bucket, then mess with the bucket. 3) U cant add to what's not there so goin "too flat" on 8bit 420 is not a good idea. You'll intro noise & inaccurate colour. Like I said, drop it a lil & tweak later but don't expect 10bit flexibility from baked 8bit. 4) 8bit baseline. Expose & desat colour for THAT & ur 10bit externally recorded file will be fine for intense grading. However if you do what's shown here in this vid with neutral, then blowing out skies as demo'd here won't ever be recovered. Underexposure however, isn't as noisy or aliased as overexposure is when it comes to 8bit. Don't forget wtf ur dealing with here, so don't expect 10bit results or flexibility (unless ur working 32bit float or 10bit from baked 8bit) 5) 8bit is VERY powerful & flexible if set up right & shot with proper exposure settings. Baked in profiles aren't evil & we're stuck with them... & used properly, ur post tweaks should be minimal BUT very effective. So don't go nuts with them... The canon encoder & colour management is perfectly fine for day to day & basic project use. When shooting something hardcore, use a 10bit recorder coz 8bit 422 thru hdmi baked into 300+mbps 10bit 422 is better than trying to tweak 8bit 420 on a sub 100 bitrate.... ... And that info IS coming from a colour professional

[@RogerAVHansen]

Thank you for the long explanation 😊 Appreciate that 😊

[@PedroAnastazi]

@@RogerAVHansen sorry I sounded like a pretentious wanker... If ppl can look beyond my migraine mood, hopefully you & they find something useful in there....

[@RogerAVHansen]

@@PedroAnastazi always appreciate useful information from people who actually know what they are talking about 😊 And hopefully others read the comment and learn something too 😊 Like I said in the video, I’m not a professional color grade person, far from it 😊

[@eerofi]

I didn't understand much, but sounds like a KZbinr telling another what is wrong and what is right. :D

[@PedroAnastazi]

@@eerofi I dno about anyone tellin ayone what to do... but its important to know the codec technology nuances and caveats and what youre dealing with....Once u understand the boundaries of the tech, you can push to the edges of those boundaries and save yourself and your supplier and clients alot of time and headache.... 10bit 422 encoding which comes with a text/log file (where the term LOG is used) which carries all the colour info for any respective 10bt file. SO the video FILE itself DOESNT have all the colour info... .. but the point is, is that most 8bit acquisitions dont come with a colour LOG text file and DONT have the 10bit headspace of an 256+ additional steps in colour resolution/depth... I specifically mean COLOUR resolution and depth, not frame or image resolution... The point im making in my post isnt to minimise or denigrate or tell anyone what to do... its to educate people in what the tech and tools can and cannot do, based ONLY on the spec of what we're working with. You can always go over that basic spec, but if youre doing this as a profession and youre workin with other people or an editor, it can get tricky if you mess up the info you provide to these associates. Notign worse than having a shooter say "ill send u the log file" and its an underexposed 8bit video with a baked in neutral profile .... If it was a 10bit file, as 'log file' suggests, then its no drama coz i have headspace to tweak , but people DONT KNOW .. All they see is a flat profile, and think great, its good enough to grade... Its not.. not on 8bit anyway... (unless youre colouring using 32bit float) There a tonne of other different terms for the same thing..but more often than not theyre only giving me 8bit 420 files with that profile's colour settings already baked in. These people however dont realise that by baking 8bit as a 'flat' ( in camera prof or using a 3rd party profile) THAT flattened colour gamut WITHIN that 8bit file Is VERY limiting and determines HOW far i can grade it . If its 10bit, its a differnt ballgame.. Its all about the codec and colour space within that codec. What I was iniitally stating is that there are many KZbin vids talkin about profiles and NOT pointing out that said profile is NOT a codec. Those profiles are also limited by the codecs which theyre used WITH... Theyre also not explaining what/where/how that profile is designed to be used for and how its best acquired (8bit vs 10bit vs raw) and how its delivered (long GOP or Intra etc) .... Hope that helps...

[@juzzonmorris]

Point well made. I totally agree with your conclusion. Great video comparisons. 👍🏾

[@RogerAVHansen]

Thank you 😊 Some may agree and others might not, the most important thing is that you find a profile that you think is good for your kind of work 😊

[@juzzonmorris]

@@RogerAVHansen I. Shoot with a Canon T7i, not the best in dynamic range, but otherwise a great camera for beginner and maybe intermediate videographers.

[@Kickzster]

Been loving these videos, im buying the camera this week

[@RogerAVHansen]

If you're not in a hurry to buy a camera, it could be a good idea to see what specs the M50 mark ii actually is going to get. Some of those specs might be better than the M6mk2. And the M50 mark ii should not be that far away from being announced... The M6mk2 is a great camera. Just don't want you to buy the M6mk2 now and in a few months you can get the M50 mark ii for around the same price with possibly some better specs.

[@Kickzster]

@@RogerAVHansen thank you!! Does the m6 overheat a lot?

[@RogerAVHansen]

@@Kickzster I've had it overheat two times. Both times after filming in 4K for over 1 hour..

[@digitalaviationchannel]

great video bro!

[@RogerAVHansen]

Thank you 😊

[@derbi123]

Well said, well done!

[@RogerAVHansen]

Thank you 😊

[@kadeeminstagram7388]

Love this

[@RogerAVHansen]

Thank you 😊

[@DadGotThis]

Great video. I just picked up the M6 Mark II and love it. I would like to see the adjusted standard vs the others. I may just do that test myself lol.

[@RogerAVHansen]

Dad Got This Thank you 😊 No, didn’t change anything with the standard profile. That was kind of the point with the video, the comparison of the Standard profile as it is vs the other ones 😊

[@DadGotThis]

@@RogerAVHansen Yeah, totally understand that point. I just thought it would be interesting to see how it looked. Great work on all your videos. I am binging them now!

[@RogerAVHansen]

@@DadGotThis well, thank you so much 😊 Hope you see some progress in the most recently videos when you compare them to the older ones 😄

[@jonscon4604]

Well done!

[@RogerAVHansen]

Thank you 😊

[@Fav0rit]

Very useful info!

[@RogerAVHansen]

I'm glad 😊

[@mohaosmanov]

Good info

[@RogerAVHansen]

Thank you 😊

[@JCoelho]

I use cinestyle with the canon M50. However i try to color correct in-camera before shooting. I thing that you loose alot of details if you just leave everything flat.

[@RogerAVHansen]

How do you color correct in camera if you are using Cinestyle picture profile?

[@JCoelho]

@@RogerAVHansen by altering the settings of the profile. I increase de sharpness by 2, contrast to half, saturation also half. Gives me almostva correct look but with room to colorgrade in post

[@JCoelho]

This, with the m50. I don't know about the 6d

[@RogerAVHansen]

But by doing all that, do you still have a flat profile? Couldn't you just shoot in standard or neutral instead?

[@JCoelho]

@@RogerAVHansen its the shadows. On the standard or neutral the shadows are to dark. I live in Portugal, alot of sun, with an nd filter and the adjusted cinestyle i get a better dinamic range.

[@maxdemyanets5422]

Pain in the but - shoot in standard and in FCP you can color edit whatever you want!!! There’s a lot of luts...

[@RogerAVHansen]

Thanks 😊

[@SpitfirePT]

Hi, whats the settings for the flat profile? Thx

[@RogerAVHansen]

Hi I made a video about that. You can watch that here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qYvNhaeigMaUpaM

[@Tiauhui]

For me, i am lazy for the time to edit to achieve the very lit diff ? Sorry just me

[@RogerAVHansen]

You’ll come a long way with standard and neutral picture profile 😊👍🏼