Star Trek Retro Review: "Death Wish" | Q Episodes

[@matthewryan8463]

I imagine Original Q popping in to say "Oh right. The poison. The poison for New Q, the poison chosen especially to kill New Q, New Q's poison. ...That poison?"

[@st.anselmsfire3547]

There was a golden opportunity to show Frakes's character from North and South as his Civil War ancestor. It probably would've been too much for the lawyers.

[@erf3176]

We are gonna need a video (or videos) going over all the comet episodes. That way, Steve gets to summarize this episode again and has to come up with even more jokes.

[@lindleya]

How about after we do comet episode, we can do Courtroom episodes. That way, Steve has to come up with still more jokes again :P

[@yoduh4077]

Quickly, to the Patreon! 🤣

[@ATADSP]

I agree, boosting engagement for this post

[@FiXato]

Followed by one about all the episodes outside of TNG that featured Riker. ;)

[@devenscience8894]

@@FiXato or at least every Voyager episode that features Riker, since that number is more than one.

[@patrickdodds7162]

“Death Wish” is a truly amazing hour of television. Michael Piller and his son, Shawn really delivered a story that is breathtakingly original, clever, heartfelt, tragic and thought-provoking. It skillfully weaves a tapestry of things involving Q and his fellows in the continuum from “Deja Q” to “Q Who” (where sadly we get Voyager’s first and most certainly not last reference to the Borg) to their practice of capital punishment ("True Q") all the way down to the Starfleet briefing on Q (mentioned in “Q-Less”) to most importantly the Q Continuum’s ultimate feet of clay: their stagnation as a people and their consequent desperation (mentioned nine years earlier in “Hide and Q”). It gives us a candid look at the Q Continuum like never before without taking away from their mystery (which is a true masterstroke). A special shout-out needs to go to Gerrit Graham who gives a truly layered performance which is playfully quirky on the surface, but in fact hides a deep abiding sorrow as shown in his truly devastating and heartbreaking closing argument. This gem is a brilliant character piece, it adds a ton to the Trek mythology and has an important message to skillfully say. I give it a platinum “Balance of Terror” Award.

[@TheBlackSaint]

Yeah, I love this episode and recall being blown away by its depiction of the Continuum.

[@ThePzwilson]

Janeway assuming that Q was offering her a photograph of Earth was perfect absurdity. I knew my faith in this video was well founded.

[@ValekHalfHeart]

It's been a long time since I watched any of Voyager, but the scene of the Q Continuum in this episode has stuck with me for years as one of the most artistic sequences the show ever pulled off. There's something so haunting about the emptiness of it.

[@DeathBYDesign666]

It gives some serious cosmic horror vibes and I have in fact seen many cosmic horror stories that start on a road in the desert. Lots of horror stories in general have that kind of setting and it is creepy just being in a place like that in real life. Any backwater fill station on a stretch of lonely road is creepy as hell. Texas Chainsaw Massacre had one or several actually where they serve their famous human chili.

[@ThisIsATireFire]

I'm not a fan of horror shows, so I don't have much to reference there. But as a kid growing up in a desert, life is everywhere, you just have to know where to look. But this episode did stick with me. They all seemed so bored and dead inside. And I fully understood why "old Q" would decide that stirring the shit pot was at least entertaining. But I couldn't understand why they wouldn't take up teaching school children. The little buggers are cute and maddening and trying to get some of them to understand a concept is at least a challenge. The Q would get the opportunity to engage. And yes, they've seen and done everything, everywhere. Which is admittedly hard for me to *really* grasp. But why not fiddle with things to see what would happen if you changed one small thing here and there? I wouldn't be able to not. But I did always like the antihero shitpot stirrer types of characters the most.

[@raybeauvais296]

It was only a couple years after this episode that Jack Kevorkian was arrested for helping someone commit suicide. Kevorkian himself said he had helped 130 people end their lives. So they were very much in the thick of the public debate over 'Quality of Life' issues.

[@woogha]

This is why I love Comet theory. The amazing thought experiments. Also, Every DS9 episode has a comet. Just saying.

[@GeeVanderplas]

I just wanted to comment the same thing, every DS9 episode starts with a comet, so that theory checks out :)

[@alanbear6505]

If you remember the first couple of seasons the opening was just the comet and DS9 with nothing at all happening. I referred to the comet as the “space tumbleweed”.

[@DavidStowers-o7k]

Great, you want to give Steve another reason to harp on about his favourite series? YEASHHHH.

[@Vilamus]

There is something heartwarming seeing someone say positive things about something they do not like. That is a level of nuance not normally seen online. Bravo Steve!

[@AnEnemySpy456]

So is the reason Deep Space Nine is so good because every single episode has a comet in the opening credits? Seems like a bit of a cheat if you ask me.

[@MHLegacy]

Brilliant reasoning!

[@medic-gg7jo]

Wait! The Next Generation started to get good, from the 3rd season on. And at the same time, Their opening credits changed to the one that has a comet. (◉Θ◉) MIND BLOWN!!! lmao

[@Hitoshura844]

It may not have been intentional, but to me the portrayal of the Q Continuum and the ennui of having just existed for so long that nothing is exciting or new anymore is a really valid criticism of the notion of heaven. Unless humans were to be fundamentally changed I really think that no matter how good the experience was, after a long enough time of experiencing it, I would eventually want it to end.

[@avvyrude7603]

I don't get why they didn't just have Q bring Col. Thaddeus Riker (played by Jonathan Frakes with appropriate 1860's facial hair) to the trial. It would make way more sense in-story to bring the guy who was actually saved, it would still provide that sweet Frakes cameo for Sweeps, and the audience would still understand that this is Will Riker's ancestor and therefore why they should care. Also, it would allow Steve to make a near infinite number of North and South jokes. This is what we were robbed of.

[@AndrewJamesGordon]

Fun Fact: I attended the New York Conservatory for Dramatic Arts and one of the teachers was Maury Ginsberg. Maury Ginsberg is his actual name. The character originally had a different name (I can't remember what it was) but when Maury was cast, either one of the writers or producers liked his name much better than the name that was written.

[@johnnybrown9505]

I love Voyager and it's my favorite out of the four Star Treks. Dude you do your show with such an immaturity and intelligence that it works. I never miss your Star Trek videos, keep them coming.

[@nosdregamon]

The humor in your summary was really on spot! The episode was really cool and I think, the only thing that could have made it better, was if Captain Janeway had been a little more hesitant before rejecting old Q's offer, just to show or hint, that maybe Janeway (and the show in extension) isn't as static as she seemed.

[@MalzraAirwynn]

To be fair Voyager held off on bringing Q in longer than DS9 did, and had a better episode to bring Q in for to boot.

[@KariIzumi1]

Rare Voyager W

[@smokedbeefandcheese4144]

Voyager is underrated in general. I enjoyed watching it my first time and I’m going to be honest going through it again I am enjoying it my second time too. I like the Delta quadrant and how it’s different. Even the things that are hard to stomach are kind of funny in retrospect. For example Nelix obviously not a fan but he is more funny than annoying at this point. Honestly he bothers me less than Ezra Dax in ds9 it’s just very hard to one up the old Dax

[@blade122]

I was always intrigued by the conversation between new Q and Tuvok, that suggested the Q continuum was not as omnipotent as they appeared.

[@vladutcornel]

If it comes, it's a comet. If it goes, it's a goeth.

[@bennymartin5589]

I really enjoyed the symbolism you can pick out in the gas station/continuum scene. You can look at each activity and find some sort of interpretation of what they might be doing. Like croquet game with planets looking to me like a metaphor for a pair of Q fighting each other through different warring planets to placate the boredom. I also like the one you pointed out with the "New" Magazine.

[@vtmarik]

The Q we see in the Continuum remind me of the Apathetics from Zardoz: Immortal beings who have nothing left to do or experience and so they just exist.

[@DavidStowers-o7k]

Best line from that movie, "The penis is bad, the gun is good."

[@JRiffle_HeaveHoStudio]

The interlude into reminiscing about burning old Dixie down warmed my heart!

[@cybermermaidkomette_vt3178]

My name is pronounced "Comet," and I jump whenever I hear it spoken. I jumped a lot in this video. You'd think I'd no longer be jumping by the end, but I sure did keep jumping!

[@vine1313]

After watching MLP with my daughters, it is hard to see Q as anything other than another version of the demon of Chaos, Discord. And as Discord implied several times throughout the series, "Sometimes there is nothing more chaotic than a universe in order..."

[@matthewryan8463]

You're not wrong, although that is why they brought in John de Lancie to voice Discord - his Q was the original inspiration, and then they were like "wait, we can actually get de Lancie himself? Sweet!"

[@nunalunaberey_]

When like 11 year old me discovered that Discord was voiced by Q my mind was BLOWN I love Star Trek and Q and that made Discord so much cooler! It’s one of my fave fun facts and a cool crossover between two things I really like

[@trulytrekkie]

"Death Wish" is my personal favorite Voyager episode. Great job with the recap of the episode! But... with Thaddaeus Riker's part in the Civil War, I am impressed you could resist doing another "North and South" joke.

[@brycearonee6635]

I agree with you about Riker being largely unnecessary for the story. However, I do think it makes sense for Q to try to appeal to Captain Janeway by presenting a more contemporary reason for why Quinn has been extremely important. Q concludes his argument by positing that were it not for Quinn saving Commander Riker's ancestor, Riker wouldn't have been born and the Borg would have assimilated the Federation (presumably in Best of Both World's part 2). It was Riker's ingenuity and commitment to rescuing Captain Picard that ultimately gave them the edge they needed for Data to hack into the Borg's collective consciousness and implant the "sleep" command. If that hadn't happened, the Enterprise (commanded by NOT Commander Riker) would probably have lost the battle, been destroyed, and Earth assimilated after the Battle of Wolf 359. So Riker's existence (thanks to Quinn saving his ancestor) was crucial to the existence of everyone on Voyager.

[@forloveofthepage2361]

I never really liked trek as a kid, but as a teen I found episodes like this infinitely interesting and it got me to bing all of TNG and what was out of the other shows at the time. I love the episodes that make you think about how morality effects beings beyond or different from us.

[@John73John]

I believe a court with two Q's is called a "Qourq"... although they don't usually use the term because it sounds too similar to the name of a particular Ferengi bar owner.

[@ThePzwilson]

I knew there was a reason I was thinking "Didn't you just do this?" when I saw the thumbnail. I didn't even realize it was for a separate question, rather than the Q series. Oh well. I have full faith in your ability to make up new jokes. And besides that, would I even be watching reviews of 25 year old star trek episodes If I didn't like going over things a second time?

[@julietardos5044]

Fun fact: Maury Ginsburg's character's name was going to be different, but the producer or director liked his real name so much that they used the actor's real name instead. It is a pretty good name, ya gotta admit.

[@navibc31]

For some reason, I used to imagine that Maury was supposed to have been Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg's husband

[@DeathBYDesign666]

​@@navibc31I didn't think of that but I keep thinking Jewish attorney when I see the name. It just sounds like that type of name.

[@PrincessOzaline]

While I can't deny that Jonathan Frakes was a case of stunt casting,I think that's why it does work in the episode. Q could have brought Riker'sancestor and built up his importance to the war, but bringing in a contemporary that Janeway would be familiar with was an emotional appeal to her just like it was to the audience. As for the Q themselves they do seem to be tied to the present in a qay rhe Prophets are not, able to leave it but the clock in San Dimas keeps ticking. It doesn't make a lot off sense but it allows them to function better as characters, sems to be the case with a lot of time travelers.

[@DavidStowers-o7k]

qay rhe? that sounds like the name of a sheikah/zonai shrine from breath of the wild/tears of the kingdom.

[@ragnar3523]

Really loved the scene in the continuum. Could have been straight out of Original Star Trek and felt refreshingly weird compared to the usual Voyager episodes.

[@bobmathis-friedman6742]

I'm intrigued by the different ways in which Q interacts with the various captains; a foil for Picard, staying out of Sisko's way after the latter deck him, and the ultimate relationship (forthcoming) with Janeway...a manner that repeats with several other Antagonists...

[@spikeoramathon]

A great analysis of a great episode. I'm still in mourning from the loss of a close relative who chose death with dignity over suffering a few more years of a terminal disease, and while I agree with the choice that was made, it was still hard to get through, so this episode holds special meaning for me. It's one thing to say, "Yes, I agree that one should leave life on one's own terms," but quite another to say goodbye to someone you love and wonder if there wasn't some other way to ease the pain rather than ending it all, and know that one is being horribly selfish in wanting that person to stay. I still agree with the right to die, but the belief is now quite bittersweet. Once you're done doing the Q episodes, I'd love to see a followup on your "what makes Star Trek Star Trek" talk and do a series on the most progressive and inclusive episodes - and PLEASE include "Critical Care." As someone who worked in long-term healthcare and saw how poorer people weren't regarded as deserving of the same quality of medical care as the rich, it hit me deep and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

[@fngaming420]

Ever since my first viewing of it, Death Wish has been my favourite Q episode. Amazing performances across the board.

[@Roundhay2718]

No North & South reference? The Continuum's situation reminds me of the ending of The Good Place

[@DavidStowers-o7k]

Unfortunately I cancelled my netflix account before I saw that episode.

[@G11713]

The presence of Ryker could be explained as pandering to Federation fraternal spirit. There was some pleasant multi-part episodes and this one eventually lead to the Q civil war.

[@jancecharlesaustin3733]

Riker did his own magic gesture when he had Q powers. Love you, dood. Always fun

[@KaptinnKyle]

True! And so did Amanda Rogers in "True Q."

[@andrewfischer48]

my brother suffered als there came a time he and the family would have bennifitied from choice. he sufferd needlessly.. although i count careing for him as a blessing. when it was bad we could still joke and be brothers

[@jamiecashes]

It's one of Voyager's best! Great Q episode, John de Lancie at his best! I love his role as Q in the game Star Trek timelines .

[@ghostporcupine]

Steve, I've been binging your videos, and I would die for Voyager (dont ask me how i got to this point, I have no idea) but your Voyager sass cracks me up every time.

[@bozodeathgod]

Gerrit Graham is always good, not necessarily underrated (which has become overrated), but underappreciated as he's usually an MVP in whatever he's in. Great review and dissection of the episode.

[@DavidStowers-o7k]

You're obviously not including that godawful episode of Lois and Clark where Clark Kent/Superman spends the bulk of the episode blind.

[@yuuzyerbrejn9603]

Side note; since Coach Prime came to CU, they are averaging between 5 and 7 million viewers per game, an ASTOUNDING number for today! I really liked this episode. There aren't many Voyager episodes I can even watch, compared to the tears flowing down my cheeks watching Captain Benjamin Sisko and team do their thing-wow- but I do like this episode of Voyager. New Q is very engaging.

[@francoislacombe9071]

My favorite Q line in this episodes, when he notices that there are no men aboard Voyager: "Say, is this the ship of the Valkyries, or have you human women finally done away with your men altogether?"

[@st.anselmsfire3547]

This episode really excited me when I was a kid and saw it for the first time. We all thought, naively, that this meant that Voyager was changing directions the same way DS9 had with Way of The Warrior. Then it was back to "meh... it's okay" for the rest of the season. Kind of annoying, like when a C student gets an A on a hard test and you're wondering why he can't put that kind of effort into his stuff all the time.

[@lordnightleaf7908]

The comet probably was real. The leaders of the Q Continuum just imprisoned "New Q" within a single ice crystal at the comet's core.

[@sloanekuria3249]

Yay, new Steve! I can't wait to watch it when I get back from QQourt!

[@seraphonica]

based on your description of the plot, this episode will now be known to me as "Quit's a Quonderful Life"

[@euansmith3699]

Riker's ancestor wasn't just a hero; he was a Union Army Man. Gerrit Graham is always good value in a role.

[@oke518]

I agree with you for me at the age I watched it which was quite Young as these were airing the question it asked and the opinion it gave was completely outside of the box to anything that my surroundings had given me a chance to think about and look at it very much informed self-reflection that probably otherwise wouldn't have happened

[@josephmartin5176]

This is absolutely one of the best episodes of the entire series. For all the things you said.

[@jamst5913]

I don't have anything to add, only want to point out that Amanda Rogers also had her own "Q activation" quirk and well before Q(uinn) was introduced, with her sharp, quick, flitty finger movement

[@JRMcCarroll]

I think there'd be a much stronger reason to call Riker as a witness: He briefly had the powers of Q at one point in time. Surely one side or the other could have had a reason to question him about that. But also, on the same note, from an in-character perspective, Amanda Rogers would have been a much more logical Q to summon as someone who understood humanity.

[@dragonprinceHP]

I personally loved this episode - it was one of my favorite episodes - One which I raved about for a good long time when it came out, I'd ask friends if I did it all and experienced it all, could I go on living and I ended up answering "No I would do it all in a different order, in a different way" - I think Quinn just had a lack of imagination - I play video games and after beating the game each time, I try to play it again eventually and try to shorten the time required to play the game, beat bosses and enemies at lower and lower levels and do things in a different way. If something works, I might try it again and again to reproduce the results. I'd do that if I was Q. As I noticed overall they did that in a later episode - Q and the female Q have a baby together which was never done in the continuum and that sort of thing I'd suggest to someone if I was Q - It hasn't been done - let's have a baby I'd say to a female Q or even a non-Q / mortal female.

[@reversefulfillment9189]

I thought this was about Charles Bronson! Oh well.

[@DavidStowers-o7k]

I've seen all five of the Charles Bronson Death Wish movies. And they taught me one thing. Never be a part of Paul Kersey's friends and family plan.

[@DavidStowers-o7k]

Love the cup on your desk.

[@AvenKallan]

Deathwish is my favorite Voyager episode, one of my all time favorite Star Trek Episodes.

[@GrannyGamer1]

As a disabled person, this makes me nervous. In an ableist society, we're frequently encouraged to unalive ourselves, ostensibly in the guise of respect for individual dignity, masking the eugenics argument that we are a detriment, burden and hold back to the human race, who are better off without us. Rather than argue for working to improve quality of life fr disabled and sick people, we jump to the conclthey should die? So, if this guy can off himself, simply because he's bored, it doesn't bode well. It creates a slippery slope. And, yes, I feel the same way about Data's assisted suicide. Roddenberry had an antipathy for the imperfect, from fat actors to wrinkled uniforms. I'm afraid that warped aesthetic has carried down through the decades. 😢💯¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 🖖🏾

[@arthurward2067]

Death Wish is easily in the top 2 or 3 episodes of the first two Seasons of the show, and really shows how good Piller's tenure on the series could have been. It's crazy that the man who turned TNG into the great show we know it to be, and spearheaded DS9 was running Voyager during its the worst two seasons, and it wasn't just growing pains. Yet with Death Wish Piller demonstrates that Voyager could have lived up to its predecessors.

[@patrickdodds7162]

I respectfully disagree with you on Voyager season 1 and 2 being it's worst. Getting past episodes like "Threshold" and "Tuvix" and the underwhelming Kazon, these seasons have a lot of fantastic episodes with compelling reoccurring characters like Seska and Lon Suder and the most compelling alien antagonists since the (TNG-era) Borg and The Dominion: the multifaceted and deeply dangerous species, The Vidiians. From the mind-bending holodeck puzzle episode, "Projections", to the heart-pounding final act of "Deadlock" to what might be the most touching love story in the history of Star Trek, "Life Signs", these seasons have a lot of great stuff to offer. Please consider giving it another look.

[@marsneedstowels]

@@patrickdodds7162 Problem with Seska is that she was entwined with the Kazon storyline.

[@patrickdodds7162]

@@marsneedstowels Yet she was still a more interesting antagonist than the Borg Queen. Also, Martha Hackett always brought the goods as the devious Cardassian.

[@arthurward2067]

@@patrickdodds7162 I wish I could agree but I think the bad and mediocre episodes outway the good. And the bad episodes are generally worse than anything in the later seasons (with some notable exceptions), and worse than most the bad episodes I'm TNG and Voyager. Whilst I'll give the second season credit for trying a season long arc, that arc was unfortunately poor courtesy of the Kurzon, although Seska does help bolster it. Most unforgivably is the fact that they never take true advantage of the mix of Starfleet and Marquis crew, which actually should have been the arc, the most you get is in Learning Curve, which was a bad episode. But there are still plenty of good episodes in there and I wish they hadn't given up on the idea of story arcs after Basics part 2.

[@organous8870]

This episode was extremely fascinating, but difficult for me to watch during the deepest parts of my depression, when I would normally watch a nostalgic show I love. It made me more comfortable with the idea of suicide. For a long time, this episode made me uncomfortable helping suicidal people, because I secretly approved of it, but I didn't feel I could actually say that. Ultimately, it took some deprogramming for me to counter the idea of IRL suicide (unrelated to this episode).

[@TheBlackSaint]

I appreciate this point. The continuum does treat Q(uinn) as mentally ill and arguably "institutionalize" him to prevent his attempts at self harm. I don't think that is a metaphor the show is attempting or if the show is arguing that Q never tried to treat Quinn's depression but instead just locked him away (which is how people with mental illness have been treated). The episode pushes the point that immortality itself, ironically enough, a sort of terminal illness, a source of real pain and suffering. I also appreciate Steve's point about how the ending doesn't "cheat" by having Quinn live out a mortal life on some random planet but it is potentially concerning that he does take his own life, when the larger issue has been resolved (he will die eventually).

[@gothatfunk]

By pure coincidence I watched this episode an hour before your video came up. Great review, as always. I thought it was a clever device to make Voyager's first interaction with a Q, one where they effectively put the Continuum on trial - seeing as on TNG it was the Continuum who put humanity on trial. My biggest gripe about the episode is that it was a throw away given that allowing the suicide could change the nature of Q society and the existence of the Continuum. We are never really informed why that should be the case, or how it might manifest. Even the attempt to provide insight to this, in S3's The Q and the Grey, is wholly inadequate and disappointing. Season 3 has a greater preponderance of duds than other seasons, IMO, and the excellent potential of this storyline was squandered like a fart in a gale. Thank goodness for Q2. I'd have hated for Q's Voyager contribution the have ended with the Q & the Grey. Its an awful episode..

[@Mr_Top_Hat_Jones]

2:45 Woah, Kes is looking _rough_ here!

[@DavidStowers-o7k]

Just wait until she pops up in her revenge episode.

[@wehpudicabok6598]

Thank you for bringing up how New Q/Quinn could obviously have interacted with Riker before, by virtue of being a time traveler. That's bugged me for so long!

[@Ravuun]

I so very much adore the Q episodes, so these videos have been very enjoyable for me.

[@alexwulf9150]

This was one of the first to spark a philosophical debate between me and my parents. I loved this episode as a teen.

[@DavidStowers-o7k]

Are they evangelical Texans? You know, being in stark opposition to suicide, but get a major chubby when someone's put to death by the state!

[@CatBuddha]

"Did anyone ever tell you you're angry when you're beautiful?"

[@jackalovski1]

Pointing out this episode was heavily dialogue driven remind me of one of my favourite “sci-fi” movies ‘The man from earth’ which also stars Enterprise actor John Billingsley which is a very weird movie in that it’s almost entirely set in a single room focusing on people talking.

[@johnquiett1085]

I never thought about the fact that they made the Q a very linear species in this episode. I'm watching DS9 (still and again) which was somewhat concurrent with this series and the Prophets have been used a few times. They are still mostly "wormhole aliens" early on but they struggle ti understand time. Also they haven't really acknowledged Bajor yet. I always wanted a side-by-side comparison of the Prophets and the Q. They seem very similar, except the Q choose or atleast seek to understand mortals to an extent, and at least grasp the concept of linear time, while the Prophets choose not to get involved and just wait for Bajor to be ready to join them on their level. I wish I had the chops to dig into this topic more philosophically.

[@alanbear6505]

As for the Q gestures, it’s the same as the witches on Bewitched. Coincidence?

[@georgelionon9050]

We need a nose twitch Q!

[@LordSenile]

I've always felt the witches and warlocks from Bewitched were actually all members of the Continuum, some of them really do act like Q's.

[@wardmicko1251]

Still, can't help but notice some Flanderuzation. Q started wearing the uniform of a Starfeet captain just as a way to annoy Pucard. Now he's in it every time, and so is New Q.

[@navibc31]

You'd think that the Q would have a prison impervious to a transporter

[@DavidStowers-o7k]

Since they can clearly walk through a federation starship force fields.

[@mattmadrid2960]

I have always enjoyed this episode period it's a rare occasion where the Q appear as actual people with needs and desires rather than fickle gods. It also helps that the Q continuum scene was filmed walking distance from my childhood home.

[@kevinkeeney9418]

Pulling in Will Riker was pure fanservice, yes, but I'm both happy and also a little disappointed they didn't get Frakes to play his identical distant ancestor.

[@PurpleRobe8]

My favorite Voyager episode. For once, a scientific thought experiment -- what does Infinity look like?

[@HumanFellaPerson]

What an excellent breakdown! You had me laughing out loud multiple times. Thanks!

[@venkelos6996]

If this was an older episode of Steve's show, I don't think I would have been able to bring up this point, and it's still hard, because Picard waffled between seasons,, I think,, but it does seem odd that Quinn would lament immortality, and Q defend its importance, and that Q remain immortal, when S2 Picard hypes up that the Q might not actually BE "immortal". And sure, anyone in real life who is feeling suicidal has the same out; they'll all die from something, eventually, even if they don't rush it, so I won't just say Quinn could wait till his energies were expended, but it does still seem weird that, if Q can "die", and eventually must, that Quinn, who wasn't necessarily "suffering" from any trauma worse than boredom, couldn't just wait. It's also odd, with a capital punishment system in place, among the Q, that Quinn couldn't figure out a way to force his people's hand. They didn't seal the two Q on Earth up in a comet, when they were "breaking the rules"; they sidestepped Earth's own climate control network, and dropped a finger of God tornado on a single house. It's seems a weird set of alternative options, for people who also regularly flippantly twist reality at their whims.

[@IngieKerr]

It's all kicking off in the comet sectio.

[@thecynicaloptimist1884]

I think the justification for Riker was more that Quinn saved the Riker lineage, thereby ensuring that Will Riker would be born. Considering how pivotal he was in saving the Federation from the Borg, things could have turned out quite differently had Thaddeus been killed or died from his wounds. It's there if you really look for it, but the episode could have done a better job in hammering this point home.

[@kalaniproductions7862]

I agree that Riker was fan service, but his presence does make sense, when you think about it. Being that Janeway was going to be the one to have to decide what to do, it's only natural that Q would bring somebody she knows, and knows her, to give her a more personal connection to the argument. Well, they more know OF each other, I guess, but yeah.

[@GarblagGames]

Love the Tuvix link! Awesome.

[@johnpotts8308]

I reckon Janeway would have ruled in favour of OG Q if he hadn't tried to bribe her with returning Voyager home. The Q might be Omnipotent but they're not Omniscient.

[@alanpennie]

She does seem pretty dodgy things for the sake of her crew, but she was in "impartial judge" mode this episode.

[@yiqingtan4079]

I was just watching an old late night episode where they said Trump wanted the border wall to be see through and joked that maybe they just need to hire some mimes to show Trump when he comes to visit the nonexistent part of the invisible wall.... So when you said New Q walked through the force field as though it was Trump's border fence... Omg that was a good one....

NewQ got his Q zap from Uncle Arthur on "Bewitched". :)

[@Match451]

John de Lancie's Q was once made mortal, and attempted to get himself killed - not exactly suicide, but I'm surprised you didn't bring this up and mention its parallels.

[@patrickdodds7162]

Also: was the original-Q playing "the scarecrow" in "Encounter at Farpoint"? Is "the scarecrow" is a role of Qs to keep unworthy species for going too far into the universe? I've been wondering that for decades.

[@ZipplyZane]

I always interpreted being the scarecrow as becoming non-Q--i.e. losing one's powers. I don't remember why, but maybe the review will remind me.

[@jasonkeith2832]

​@@ZipplyZaneGiven how New Q introduces the roles, being the scarecrow seems like it is more of a limiting role, but not one that wholly strips them of what makes them Q. The role that, in my though process, seems to fit a punitive one would be the dog. It fits as a notable shift from the human analogy that even the scarecrow does while still allowing freedom of movement, which somewhat parallels Original Q's stint as mortal, with him being able to travel the galaxy, but lacking the key abilities that define the Q. Also, the way New Q off-handedly mentions the dog as a role one can play lends itself to the idea that the dog isn't a regular role that one plays, which would match a more punitive role.

[@JJ-kl7eq]

The writers are obligated to produce their best work for an episode with a comet. This is the origin of the word “cometmint “.

[@simonfrederiksen104]

5:24 * Nervous chuckle * Right, yeah * cough * Fast forwards to 5:35 :)

[@firehawk128]

I hadn’t thought about this until this recap series, but this is a nice complement to the Amanda Rogers episode. It’s too bad horny Q is next.

[@chrisclee6693]

I'd say it's in the top 5 of all Voyager episodes.

[@creativerealms]

When Voyager goes all out it's as good as any Star Trek show. It just doesnt go all out too often.

[@gothatfunk]

That's exactly how I feel about it. I love Voyager, but it has more clangers than one might wish for.

[@pseudopod]

If anyone is looking for a head cannon to explain why New Q couldn't have been around the last 300 years, it would make sense for the Q to to pick a time span the New Q had coincidentally never visited so they could make sure he couldn't free himself

[@OpinionsNoOneCaresAbout]

Another question...was this "comet" ever seen as a sign by primitive Delta Quadrant races that used its appearance in their skies to shape their entire civilization? And if so, how would one go back and be like "Yeah, it wasn't really a comet, your civilization is based on a lie"?

[@thedamnyankee1]

I was actually watching the "What is star trek" video when this posted! so the new jokes better be good ;) Edit: I spit my tea out. Jokes were good.

[@halbeliebe]

It always annoys me when somebody in fiction talks about an ancestor from 400 and more years ago. Math suggests that this ancestor of Riker has about a million descendants at least, and that's of everyone always had only about two kids. It's the same reason monarchy seems silly to me. Almost every one on the planet is a descendant of William the conqueror, so why is Charles King of England? That's my crown on his ears! But yeah... It is a great episode... And they should have left it at that...

[@georgelionon9050]

400 years, assuming chld birth on average on 30 = 13 generations. With 2 children on average its 8192 descendants. (Or Riker has 8192 grand-x-parents). "predrigee collapse" is a thing, but its a bit longer. 1000 years.. would be 8 billion grand-x-parents... more than people on earth at the time. Which is also generally considered to be genealogy limit, with a person 1000 years ago, either everyone is related to them.. or no one (if their line died out)

[@jasonrmacdonald]

It was a Quort Qase, with two Q's.

[@SprocketWatchclock]

Wait, "Maury Ginsberg"? I always assumed it was supposed to be Allen Ginsberg the poet. They look a lot alike including the same hair. I don't really know enough about Ginsberg the poet's life so I figured he was inspired by Woodstock to start writing poetry or something.

[@nathansnerdynook]

My only problem with this episode was how silly it seemed to me, as a non-boomer, that Woodstock was put on the same level of historic significance as the Theory of Gravity, the US Civil War, and the man responsible for saving humanity from the Borg. Really reflects the ages and biases of the people who wrote the episode. Like, calm down, grampa, I'm sure it was a fun concert, but just because you took acid and got laid doesn't make it some massive sociopolitical inflection point.

[@alexei141]

So is the reason DS9 is so good because there's a comet in every episode because the intro has one?

[@JJ-kl7eq]

Original Q acting wacky is the origin of the word asskew.

[@Theoddert]

This episode gives me existential dread at the concept of being able to "do everything, run out of new experiences" Like so, while we're out trying to better ourselves and explore the 'infinate' diversity of space you're telling me there's an upper limit? Like you can just be done with reality at a certain point? Very u pleasent concept

[@pauljohnston8011]

Timing is Everthing