Starline 223 Brass - Case Capacity Warning

Today we have a look at case capacity in the new Starline .223 Remington brass.
UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with KZbin content policies.
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[@alanjobe9288]

I was waiting for the “not blow your face off” remark. Got it around 2:28! I look for it in all of your videos

[@isaywoopow]

I'm so glad u do these, your the reason I can load my own ammo now

[@oriewall]

The 6.5 guys taught me a neat trick, they used an old electric tooth brush to vibrate and settle powder when they are real full. Might not help here but a good idea to have in your bag of tricks. Im enjoying this 223 series keep having fun!

[@saviostrawn8737]

Orie Wall I've used that when loading H1000 into 30-06 with heavy bullets. You can get some surprisingly high velocities with these techniques

[@scottrussell8139]

i used my now x's vibrating ,,,,,,,,,,, well you know,,,,,, worked great

[@stephensexton5572]

Just use a drop tube

[@southern_merican]

Nice

[@gristlepounder]

The thickness of Starline is why we use it in NRA SR class with a 80g SMK as it's a pretty hot load and that brass holds up well.

[@CrustyOldMarine]

Yep, I started using Starline for Service Rifle last year in my 200/300 loads running 77gr SMK and love it! I use Lapua for my 600 loads loaded longer than mag length due to seating depth testing with 77gr Nosler RDFs.

[@blackbear9326]

Hi Johnny. I've only been reloading my own ammo for several months now. But I've learned so much of this wonderful hobby, thanks to your brilliant videos. Thank you mate. 👍🏼

[@SampsonAllen]

I like that you admit your mistakes. Makes the rest of us feel less stupid lol

[@may2888]

MrSamallen1 Johnny is like Wile E. Coyote...super genius.

[@juliusjames5577]

Do you think he has a bunch of Acme reloading equipment?

[@Riyame]

Instead of water use fine grain salt to test case capacity. If you spill it is less messy and you can easily level it with the mouth of the case, with water it usually sits above the mouth due to water tension.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Salt would definitely be easier! Or a powder like Accurate 4100 would work well also. I mainly use water because that's what you can put into quickload. Someday I'll learn how to use quickload properly and I'll have my H2O technique perfected by then. lol Surface tension is definitely a problem. That's why I like using the syringe I showed in this video. Once I get the water up to the top, it's pretty easy to make fine adjustments.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

Also, I just remembered. The last time I did this on the channel several people recommended that I add some alcohol to the water, which is supposed to help with the surface tension.

[@scbane]

Salt is corrosive. Just fyi.

[@MyREDTAIL]

@@scbane Right on

[@VitoBb1978]

JRB great information which leads me to think since Starline brass has less case capacity, it would be great with ball powders like H335, BL c (2), W748, A2520 and so on, just a though

[@jbbvpf]

Top notch work, your in depth reviews of components and ammunition are always great. Keep up the great work!

[@Physics072]

I look at that as a Bonus for Starline brass. - Its thicker = stronger = handles higher pressure - Because its thicker the brass can get thinner without issues as soon. And all brass stretches and thins out after being fired multiple times. In theory it last longer - Case Capacity will increase after you size it. Some of the difference is your dies size "Larger" than starline dies. As expected after you shot the starline the case capacity did go up.

[@danielmattera7604]

Thanks for your candor... Excellent info re .223 case capacity. I had determined same by weighing 10 of each of several brands of case, then averaged. Starline was the heaviest per case. Safe assumption - verified by you - thickest material, therefore least capacity. Therefore compressed load, and the annoying resultant dent around the circumference of the bullet's ogive. I've got 250 new, still packaged Starline .223 that were a Christmas gift. She HATES it when I return the stuff she gave me! Keep up the great work and info-sharing!!

[@glockparaastra]

Thanks. Ran into some serious pressure with the same loads that work well in Lapua and Remington brass (Colt M4 16”). Amazing how it makes such a big difference. Start on a low load with your Starline brass!

[@lowcatalina6638]

Cut the case in half lengthwise, inspect wall and web thickness. These are two areas that many manufacturers will cheap out on to maximize profit. I gave up on Lapua and went to Starline. I never looked back. Excellent brass

[@michaellacy8510]

Great video! Nothing like actual measurements. Data, data, Data!!

[@JamieMG]

Watched just about everyone of your videos. Finally subscribed. Thanks for all the R&D you are doing it is greatly appreciated!!

[@may2888]

Totally not surprised you have 11 different types of 223/556 brass.

[@DimaProk]

I get all my brass for free from the range pick and I found that LC brass had most concentric flash holes, it has good capacity and it has just the right walls for converting to 300 Blackout without having to neck turn, also great for 221 fireball conversion although does need neck turning, but difference is huge compare to Norma brass. I also think Geco uses similar if not the same brass as Norma.

[@andyprairiedog4829]

Very interesting. I use mixed brass and RCBS small base resizing for my 62 grain 2,800fps range plinking with my son. Thank you very much for bringing this up as I do reload those same 62 grainers in the 3,000fps realm for more serious training.

[@Physics072]

I think overloading is very very common in 223/5.56. People use mixed brass with a fixed load. I've don't it with 223 CFE 27.4gr + 55gr with unsorted but sized and trimmed random range brass. It all shot great and the variance at 100 yards was not noticeable even thought the SD and ES was not that great SD 27fps and ES 87 FPS. I'm sure the case capacities were all different like shown on this video but it did not cause any crazy velocity spikes and the loads were all compressed. But CFE 223 might me less sensitive to slight over charges.

[@jeffrice1114]

I have bought 500pcs. .223 starline brass. It all was very short and all over the place. It avg. 1.738"-1.749". The max is 1.760" and t.t.l. is between diff. sources 1.750"-1.755". I know I wish the necks were longer not so much for powder for me, but to have as much bullet in the neck as I can. Nice video

[@barrettneely3608]

the thickness of the new brass is visibly noticeable.

[@archersfriend]

Always interesting to see statistics like this. It took a lot of time and is appreciated. It may be annoying to some, but I personally have used NORMA brass for over 50 years. It lasts and lasts. I will take the lasting trait over case capacity any ol day. That PPU crap is not Consistent in my findings and it has cause me enough headaches to consider it the same quality as STEEL for reloading. So far, I am really liking Star brass in every caliber I have tried. The price is certainly attractive. I have been shooting Compressed loads in my 22-250 with Norma brass for many years and have had a very small percent of brass failure.

[@jarredlkling]

Norma brass is great and the Norma Tac 55g fmj .223 is really good factory ammo and can be found for $0.28 a round. I buy it 1000 at a time for real cheap and then get 1000 pieces of great brass too.

[@bernielomax6160]

Starline has a 5.56 nato stamped case out now, wonder if there is any difference.

[@terryp5001]

Very interesting Thank You, I have not started reloading yet my reloading room has been a slow project. I am not a newbie just still got a lot to learn, I Have been collecting supplies my 556 brass is Lake City about 5,000 pieces. Always heard you can not go wrong with LC Brass. Thanks again nice video, Terry

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

You got pretty good advice. LC is good stuff.

[@contractor556]

Did you get up and running??

[@ancientrenegade9243]

The myth of 5.56 brass having low case capacity still reigns. This is why it's so important to work up a load for new brass. Less case capacity might be the free lunch you were looking for due to higher chamber pressures but it could also become the reason your face looks like freddie kruger.

[@GlockmanChoo]

The measurements on the star line on the brass are around 1.739 to 1.765. I think they do it so you don’t have to trimmed immediately after you fire once. I could be wrong. I seat the bullet to 2.200 hornadys at least.

[@georgegeorge8553]

Hi! I would suggest using some other liquid, with less surface tension, than water. It would be more accurate, because 223 case mouth is small enough, not allowing water to be totally leveled with case edge (water will either bulge or protrude below, which is pretty hard to control). On the other hand, liquids with lower surface tension (alcohol or antifreeze are good example. Dissolving some salt into water would lower surface tension too) would rather be leveled with case edges similarly from case to case. Sorry for many words. All IMHO. If I am wrong, please correct me ) Great video, like any others, though. My Respect to Johnny!

[@jmartin9059]

*That is good to know. I am glad you shared this.*

[@MyREDTAIL]

Bottom line Have you ever contacted Starline Brass to discuss this with them at all etc.?

[@shutthegate8232]

Thanks mate. Always informative and entertaining as a bonus.

[@nycreloader]

Johnny I found similar results with the new star line brass and some once fired starline brass I picked up off the floor at the range. I thought perhaps I made a mistake and put all the star line brass in my check this stuff out later box. I'm not saying I'm glad this happened to you but at least I know it wasn't a fluke. Thanks for validating what I thought was very odd. Update sorry this is just with the .223 cases

[@T.A.B.Videos]

Good info, I never use max loads.

[@T.A.B.Videos]

@Bob Borlog there is a little wiggle room, I've have always found my most accurate loads tend to be in the middle. Never really had to load to max.

[@ibthumper2]

Dang, that even makes me mad. "My cup of water" Yeah, sure. More like a cup of Jim Beam. LOL

[@rickmiller8931]

Great info man thanks JRB I'm glad you share things like this.

[@sabretom7594]

Enjoy the site very much, thanks for the work. Comment on this video: it’s been some time since I’ve used extruded powder in 223/5.56. It just doesn’t work well, especially in progressives. You’ll notice plenty of variance in case fill simply by dropping from different heights, or vibrating the brass. Ball powder simply makes more sense. PS: now that I’m out of primers during this pandemic, nothing but time to bother folks on u-tube.

[@silentanddeep]

Quickload defaults for 5.56x45 NATO having 28.5 gr water capacity, and 223 Rem(SAAMI) having 28.8 gr water capacity. Quickload is my guide to not reloading too hot.

[@topperaussie856]

Thanks for the comparison saves me doing it great vid,same thing goes for 204 ruger as the case is almost full with my loads anyway

[@THutch556]

Thanks for the review on the starling brass JRB. Good stuff. Looking forward to the upcoming videos. Shocked on the low case capacity of WCC 5.56 brass being so low for NATO brass, I use that brass a lot and it's great brass. Case capacity with Varget and cloning Mk262 will probably be the problem. I shoot 24.0 grains Varget with SMK 77's and it's one of if not my most accurate universal loads, but it's a pretty full case already at 24.0 grains. Accuracy should be great though wherever you end up. Of all the testing in this series I hope you put out a MK262 video testing 8208 XBR and TAC powder as that is the two most powders used it seems when it comes to duplicating MK262 rounds. Would love to see some video on it. Not liking the fact Odin sent you the same barrel back either, hmmmmm That don't seem right. Cmon Odin. Thumbs up and keep up the great Vids.

[@davedave2941]

If you want consistency and low SD - measure case volume of every case and sort accordingly... secret tips from my marine F class mentor 😏

[@thetriode]

Interesting data since internet folk lore is the LC brass has lower capacity than commercial brass.

[@davidshaw809]

Military brass and "civilian brass" have always had different brass volume.

[@JamieMG]

100% correct. I’m reloading Canadian IVI brass for both 223 & 308. Definitely less case volume. I’m getting my best groups with ivi 556 brass and a start grs load of BLC2- dang near same hole!

[@michaellacy8510]

Shotshell reloaders have always considered hull type important. I don't get why metallic reloaders haven't paid much attention to it. As noted here, we always knew it could be an issue at some level.

[@southern_merican]

Excellent video! I always wondered how much difference there was if any.

[@astridvallati4762]

Solution to problem: First firing of newbrass: load a medium load to fire-form the case to the chamber. Then full length size ( normal or SB, dep. On rifle type, bolt or SA). Then use scale and water volume measurement to segregate case types. Use the volume which best suits your powder. From now on I wil be adding a "case volume index on all the brass I recycle. ( Military 5,56 and Commercial .223) Doc AV AVB Tech Services. AUSTRALIA.

[@marcrobert2603]

Road rage allready loved too see. I look forward to watch the loading-rage video's.

[@marcrobert2603]

weight is sometimes an indicater.

[@aklaunch]

Good info! Copy on Starline being great for fast powders that max out on pressure before the case is full. And not so good for 27.5 grains of Varget.

[@graypatriot1299]

Less case capacity can be good also, depending on our perspective. When we use faster burning powders, we use less powder. Fuller case....

[@RimfireAddicted70]

More money for more stupid videos on the way! I don't know why but I could watch these all day! Keep up the great work, we're here with you all the way!

[@additudeobx]

I'm a come lately and I know Johnny released this in 9 of 2017 I'm trying to picture what 30.4 grains of water minus 29.3 grains of water looks like. That's what does 1.1 grains of water weight look like? I'm going to go see on my reloading scale, just so I can imagine it in my minds eye.

[@timferguson593]

Thanks for your work. Just have to reduce your charge. Star line brass is excellent quality.

[@Glenfilthie1]

Atta boy Johnny! I don't feel bad now - it's good to see the pros slip on a banana peel too! I've done stunts where I drive 20 miles out to the range and forget my ammo at home!!! GRRRRR!!!! Good luck with that 22 Nosler!!! And keep working with 223!!! :)

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

pro? lol I'm just a moron trying not to blow his face off and documenting it on youtube. I mean that very sincerely. Don't mistake me for an expert! :)

[@hardtarget2359]

Holy crap that new starline brass is like twice the thickness.

[@johnbouley4514]

Good show John. I to have seen the diff on IMR 4064 loads, book has max load 24x compress load Its all the way to the top of shell. I load 21gr just at the neck of the shell works just fine on the 5.56

[@jimdodd3462]

Shoot the Starline brass. Resize. New brass will have a smaller capacity, than fired. Sizing New brass will have the smallest capacity. Shoot some then check capacity.

[@bloviatormaximus1766]

compare what the various capacity cases weigh to see if there is really a correlation in heavier cases and lower capacities

[@RodFitzpatrick]

Great ! I just bought 300 cases of their new 30-06 brass. I hope these new cases don't have this capacity issue

[@Tophet1]

'Rage quit'. Love it.

[@uralbob1]

That shows me that Starline resized, has the same capacity as the Norma brass, which everyone brags about as being the best brass available. I'll take Starline every time! It's the only virgin brass that I buy.

[@caseyrhoads]

Looking forward to the 55gr videos

[@Gunner-73]

I had believed for years that 5.56mm LC brass was thicker and with less case cap than other brass cases. myth busted !

[@csmunso]

I've had the same experience with Starline 308. I've loaded full cases with powder that should not have been that high in the case.

[@donnkelley6823]

Nothing but nightmares with starline brass.....

[@adamlong54]

BOTH Norma and starline are to a higher spec. Reloading this brass for some loaders is what makes a gun shine higher pressures as you say. ill take it.

[@krisgreenwood5173]

So, what is the case length ? I give any brass 1.750" (in .223) or shorter away. If I'm using bulky powder I like my cases at least 1.760" long. Especially with shorter bullets like 52 and 55 grain. Lake City brass is my favorite choice.

[@maxchalice5625]

For what it worth I have New in a bag Starline 5.56 brass '23 and out of 3 fired cases they avg 30.9 grains of water.

[@additudeobx]

Another comment.... the test for me would be does say, for example, 26.5 grains of Varget in a Starline case propel the bullet at the same fps as 26.5 grains of Varget in a Remington case? Because maybe in Starline cases, using less powder propels the bullet at the same fps as more powder in a Remington case? That would make Starline cases possibly "More Efficient"....

[@kennethstahl678]

Always separate your brass. Changes can happen in brass from lot to lot. Even if it is the same manufacturer. Especially true for rifle brace.

[@1976kingdom]

Interested in the 22 Nosler results. If it's possible to push a 77grain Match King at 3000 fps it maybe worth the headache.

[@tindoortailgator]

.223 Was Designed To Be Used With Ball Powders - Not Extruded Powders...Just Saying...

[@451whitworth4]

Remington used IMR extruded powders originally in the .223 and the Armalite rifle function was designed around their ammo

[@BoltActionReloading]

I am interested in seeing if your 22 nosler project gets better or finishes burning to the ground. I Hope you cover whatever you got from odinworks in the video, as seeing your problems in the video doesn't seem too hard for them to understand the issue.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I have no further comment at this point in time. lol

[@BoltActionReloading]

midway usa has their complete 22 nosler side charging upper on clearance for $384. I would love to join the testing party, but I just can't bring myself to push the button. Hope you get it working, but maybe you should have stuck it out with White Oak.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

The solution is a 6.8 SPC bolt and Hornady 6mm Hagar brass. You don't end up with the full case capacity of the 22 Nosler brass but they hold up to the pressure and can be reloaded. I'm not willing to do that because I don't think there would be much of an audience. I didn't have that much personal interest in the cartridge to begin with, so I'm not going to shed a tear if the whole series gets flushed down the toilet. Regardless, you are absolutely welcome to one of these barrels. Let me see how it plays out over the next few videos before I commit, but I'd love to pass one of them off to you and see what you can do with it on your channel. I'll let you know!

[@BoltActionReloading]

I am interested to see what you can get. I am not confident that I could possibly do any better. Not sure that offer is a blessing or a curse. Only one way to find out though I guess.

[@MrOlgrumpy]

If I get a new type of brass I always weigh the case to compare with what I'm already using to make sure I don't overload.

[@noneofyurfknbiznes]

Im surprised at the LC results because I made some .300blk brass from .223/5.56 brass and many of the ones made from LC blew out, stuck in the chamber, doubled flash hole sizes, and Primer pockets, Even had a couple turn into belted cartridges. Soooo it was my assumption they were smaller case cap. Interesting results...........

[@galenhof3371]

Is all LC and WCC brass military brass?....would it be safe to reload these for use strictly in a bolt action .223?

[@Trad6166]

Did you even chronograph it? Starting out with max pressure? Why not start out with less powder and see what your chronograph says.

[@rpap5322]

exactly start out with a load in the middle between suggested load and max load...

[@az2vet698]

Would loved to have seen your case capacity result of FC brass. Anyway, keep up the great work.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I just checked a couple. They are around 30.3 grains (resized), which means they are pretty close to LC.

[@az2vet698]

Thank you for checking that and the reply. I will probably end up getting some of Bobs' bullets because of your videos. I also will be working on a load for some 60 grain Armscor fmj's I picked up before working up some 77 grain Sierra's.

[@cugir321]

I use imr 4064....25.7grains...it's my hunting load....less then 1" at 100yds with 55 gr sierra SBT...you have LC listed as the same volume as remington brass....I've never seen that happen. I cannot get 25.7 gr in lake city brass...it overflows.....remington is fine. I just bought some hornady cases.....hoping I can get 25.7 in those case.....may have to drop to 25.2 in those cases.

[@hoffmiermp]

Where would PMC .223 and Winchester .223 brass fit in that last? Sure, WCC is basically Winchester but the military variant.

[@rootintootinshootinreloadi6345]

Aguila 223 has tight primer pockets; had to ream them out even after removing crimp.used a blunted drill bit @ .172 dia

[@brandonrenner9597]

Just bought some lol switching from LC to starline glad saw this video

[@Johnyrocket70]

do an update to see how thin it gets after a few trimmings

[@mikeshepard3602]

i know this is an old video but was curious what digital powder measure is that in this vid? I subscribed to your channel years ago but I do not believe I have ever heard you say what it was. Thank you in advance and awesome videos keep'em comimg

[@mikeshepard3602]

Disregard. I found my answer by looking again through your videos. again excellent videos

[@jeffyoung2089]

Thanks for the information!

[@davidshaw809]

I don't do compressed loads, 23-24.5 grains of N540 in a Starr Brass with 69 grain.

[@arshooter1]

well there you are!

[@joshjohnson1653]

262 Is back!

[@LabRat1511]

Excellent video! Thank you!

[@Falconguygaming]

what if you make 300 blk out from them for light sub sonics? eat up some case capacity.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I like the way you're thinking.

[@jerryrichards8172]

Where can I find barrels with what cartridges I'd like to shoot in the AR platform. My wife likes 22-250 I'd like something in the ar stoner price range barrels that cost more than my gun are not in my budget.

[@harisyoung4110]

hi johny, im new to reloading. i have several curiousity that hope you will help with. just want to know is it true the hodgon 800x is same with accurate 9 ? im often use 800x to reload 10mm to get same like underwood ammo 10mm velocity gave. but 800x is hard to measure due to flake style powder.. will i get the same result with accurate 9 because ive heard someone state that the burning rate is the same. my target is 10mm 180gr velocity around 1200-1300fps. hope you dont mind share your recipe.

[@therangersbulldogs6350]

great video, very interesting.

[@larslake]

Just go with a smaller grain powder or a faster burning powder. Case capacity doesn't mean much with that type of cartridge.

[@archangel20031]

And he failed to cut some in half to see where the thickness really is. Star-Line brass is top notch brass. Perhaps the others (LC, ADI, and R-P) are all cheaply made or are too thin where they need to be thick?

[@terryclinard9031]

I'm with you on that. I've tried other brands and always went back to Starline. Dang good Brass. Very consistent Manufacturing.

[@ericblowers8021]

So, can you get the same results with smaller capacity brass, with less powder? I'm fairly new to reloading, but very curious. Love your videos, BTW!

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

This is a very tough question to answer. lol Rifles First's response was pretty vague but repeating it is about the best I can come up with. Yes, smaller capacity brass might save you a touch of powder and give the same velocity. I doubt it would be enough to matter unless you are doing huge volume. The biggest thing to take away from this video is to be careful with hot loads and mixed brass.

[@johnndavis7647]

Military brass is often thicker with resulting less capacity and higher pressures. It pays to sort brass and weigh them just to see the difference.

[@GunFunZS]

Valuable information!

[@SilverHunterIsHunted]

Any interest in the 223AI? Or is it not really all that interesting in general?

[@nonofyourbusinessnonofyour5435]

I’m watching these videos to see if reloading is good for me but more I watch less I want to do it. So many complexities man I can tell you it’s not like grab and go this is driving me crazy I like guns and would like to get into precision shooting but they tell me you have to learn how to reload so I sure now

[@brocksdaddy081910]

I started with a single stage lee and learned on 22-250 and made so many mistakes but once you get the idea of it it's then just all about playing around to get good velocity and accuracy. Nothing to be hesitant about though.

[@davidshaw809]

For one thing you never load that max charge, you should work low and go up to the max until you see pressure problems then back off. I have used Star brass for 223 with N540 with a 69 and 77 grain brass, no problems.

[@dukehoffman124]

I use Varget for my accuracy load and 69 gr Match king but I hate it for metering and compressed loads but it do shoot good .

[@tikkafoxer]

looking forward to it 😁

[@sgtusmc1sgtusmc266]

.223 and 5.56 have different case capacities new. Once resized the two calibers will also resize differently depending on the dies used and brass manufacturer. Also you need to remember if you fire .223 out of a rifle chambered in 5.56 it will partially fire form to that chamber. So if your looking for consistency you need to stick to one type of brass .223 or 5.56 because chambers very so much in those calibers. Just some helpful info is a link to a great article from lucky gunner on these calibers www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I've read the Lucky Gunner article several times over the years! I agree that it's great stuff and really interesting. However, I disagree with pretty much everything else you said.

[@sgtusmc1sgtusmc266]

Ok not sure how you can disagree that you lose consistency when you increase more variables. Your own video shows the differences between manufacturers brass. Also if I'm wrong fire the same new .223 brass in .223 chamber and 5.56 chamber then measure the results after. I have and did find I small but measurable difference. I love your videos and have referenced your videos many times. I just think that when you go from 5.56 to .223 and use three or four types of brass both new and resized it's inevitable that variables will creep in because of chamber differences and pressure differences.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

I have about 250 videos and I don't think I've ever shot mixed brass, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Of course different chambers are different dimensions and I don't know how that applies to this video. I am only talking about brass, and my experience is that there's no difference with 223 and 5.56 brass to the basic reloader. There are no rules of thumb about which type will have more or less case capacity, more or less neck thickness, more or less weight, more or less firings before failure, or any of that. You just pick a headstamp (range pickups or new brass...whatever) and start reloading. It doesn't matter if you have a .223 Rem, 5.56, .223 Wylde, or whatever other goofy stuff is out there. Off-center flash holes are the only thing I would suggest looking out for. They will still shoot, but I prefer nicely centered flash holes. Other than that, I haven't found anything complicated to worry about.

[@GigsVT]

there is no difference in the 556 vs 223 chamber in the part that the brass touches

[@ViperMikeGolf1]

I had the same issue with Starline 308.

[@oklikeuknow4827]

for someone not shooting max load, would you rate the starline brass as a great deal/ quality for the price?

[@willaimmaxwell5069]

Jonny: I love your page! You give so much. Your, "simi-scientific" appproach , in my experience, is unparalleled. Thanks! I want to send you something , where?