Starting Strength vs. Stronglifts - Which is BETTER?

[@MassiveIron]

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[@jcrittenden6696]

What I never hear anyone mention about the StrongLifts 5x5 is you’re supposed to begin the program with 50% of your 5 rep max on each lift. So if you can complete 5 sets of 5 reps with 230 pounds on the squat you will be starting squats with only 115 pounds. Starting light is the key to being able to handle all the volume. It has worked great for me.

[@benjones7562]

I think this is a highly underrated point ... I did StrongLifts at the beginning of the year and started pretty close to my 5 rep max. I lasted less than a month because the frequency was too much. I recently decided to give it another go @ 50% of my 5RM as suggested, and although the workouts right now are less than inspiring, I feel like I am going to have a lot more runway to work with once it actually gets heavy.

[@SeppoNakkinen]

Novices are supposed to start with empty barbell, deadlifts with plates to get the barbell of the floor. After your progress stalls and deloads don't work anymore, move to 3x5 , then 3x3 --> 1x3 after that the program is done. As far as I understand, squatting heavy for 3 times a week is likely too much, stronglifts suggests madcow 5x5 for intermidient program, which has medium, light and heavy squat days.

[@mvinthund]

@@benjones7562 did it help? What is your experience so far?

[@nakedmongoose6837]

The Power Cleans in SS are 5x3, not 3x5.

[@DoomFinger511]

This was a good video. One thing not mentioned about Stronglifts is deloading and 3x5. When you can't complete a full 5 reps on any exercise, you repeat that same weight next time. If for 3 times in a row you fail just one rep, then you deload by 10% and try again. If you make it back to that original weight and fail 3 times you deload a second time. If after that second deload you still continue to fail, then you switch to 3x5 for that exercise. Also once you hit around 300lbs on squat 5x5 it's advised to move to the madcow program as the 5x5 becomes too punishing.

[@waltersobchak6546]

I'm on Starting Strength for a bit more than two months and my numbers increased dramatically. I like "little" Volume and hard work. No soreness, lots of strength gains. Looks and arms? I don't care that much. If I am strong, I look good enough.

[@tombagshaw5379]

👏 Same reason I’m on 5x5 great strength gains and don’t need to look like Schwarzenegger, if I’m strong I look good anyway with decent diet

[@PeaceMastah]

Quick tip, you can add in accessory work for some hypertrophy at the end of each workout. I.e. I add in curls, tricep work, and lateral raises

[@AllPainNoGains]

@@PeaceMastah when you're a novice the quick strength gains already provide lots of hypertrophy. Once you're strong, if you want to shift your focus to over to bodybuilding, you can use that foundation of muscular strength to build more size. How many world class bodybuilders are there who didn't start with powerlifting and strength training? You build a foundation focusing on strength then later on you can start worrying about "weak points" in your physique.

[@PeaceMastah]

@@AllPainNoGains That’s one way to do it but adding in minor accessory work early on is ultimately more beneficial.

[@AllPainNoGains]

@@PeaceMastah maybe. On the other hand, overhead presses and bench presses work both the anterior and medial delts. Chins, cleans, and deadlifts all add a good bit of bicep work. Triceps get a lot of work with benches and overhead presses too. Barbell rows work the posterior delts. Other than your tibs and hip flexors it's hard to think of a muscle that doesn't already get lots of work even during the NLP.

[@r.lohengramm8709]

I found your channel recently. You seem to always take a polite approach to explaining why you disagree with someone / something when you are giving us your oppinion. Respect for that.

[@tombagshaw5379]

Totally agree. Refreshing to see nowadays. Too many channels trying to shove their opinions down your throat. This polite approach has made me subscribe as will trust the info more 💪

[@justinschmidt9652]

I know this is an old video but thank you for making this video. You’re the only person on KZbin who’s compared these properly. Another nod to stronglifts is they have an app that makes tracking everything way easier

[@MassiveIron]

Thank you. I appreciate it.

[@spookbuster4862]

That app is really great.

[@sethrich5998]

I just started Starting Strength (2 weeks in). So far volume seems correct, I’m only slightly sore the next day and soreness from the workout before doesn’t limit the next workout. So far each day increase in weight has felt lighter than the prior workouts weight which tells me I’m adapting faster than the set increases already. First week I even jumped by 10lb (squat/bench) and 20lb (deads) per workout although I was probably slightly underestimating my strength to start to get the form down. So far I like the simplicity of it and that I actually look forward to going to workout. Also, I feel like this program would suck to try and do in a large commercial gym, well worth the extra money to go to a strength gym and have my own power rack for the whole workout with no waiting and coaches if I need to ask for advice or assistance.

[@trevbarlow9719]

I loved it until about 2 months into it. 2 weeks is nothing. Even a shitty program is good for a month or so.

[@fearless6947]

@@trevbarlow9719 they are both good programs for a beginner. What's wrong

[@WillemLeijssen]

The Grey Skull LP fixes the 3x/week squat issue. I liked that the best.

[@jibba0jabba1]

I’ve been doing a variation of strong lifts 5x5 for the past few months now... it’s the most consistent I’ve been at the gym for a few years now... it’s been awesome... by far not the strongest, but feel consistently stronger than I’ve ever been and look fwd to working out every session... my week consists of Monday: squats, incline bench, pendlay row... Wednesday: deadlift, standing OHP, barbell hip thrust... Friday: squats, incline bench, pendlay rows... then following week I’ll swap incline and OHP... loving it! 👍🏻👌🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻

[@Alex-lu3pn]

SS power cleans is done 5x3, not 3x5. Barbell medicine bench plug-in is a variation of SS with more upper body volume.

[@JackOfHearts42]

I spend my first year training doing PPL, more hypertrophy focused. Recently switched to Stronglift 5x5, and have been feeling really great progression. I think the mental muscle connection I got from higher rep rangest has translated well for strength focused work, and it really feels awesome.

[@JoshBenware]

Whichever someone chooses, if they are new to lifting, I'd hope they have a coach or experienced training partner.

[@tobarstep]

I like Stronglifts a little better due to the added volume. I tried Starting Strength ages ago (like 12 years) and it was fine. I still have the books and still refer to them. Now I'm 45 and just getting back in the gym after many years hiatus, and went with Stronglifts. I took their advice and swallowed my pride, starting with just a bare bar for everything except rows/deads. I was amazed at how tough even 45lbs could be when you're doing 5x5. BUT... after the first week the soreness wasn't that bad. I think the key to either program is to get plenty of sleep and eat. A lot.

[@mackb5763]

When I first started it was 3-4x10-12 for everything and I still have the tiger stretch marks from it 20 years later.

[@fearless6947]

it's a bit late but for any one else with stretch marks, that is less than a year, you can derma roll it off with a 1.5mm needle. I know most of you don't care anyway lol

[@MrMasterDebate]

@@fearless6947 can you explain that more , what is that roller

[@surajpatil8670]

I didn’t realize that in Stronglifts, deadlifts are actually 1x5 as opposed to 5x5 for squats and bench. I was doing 5x5 for all three of them in the same week (different days though). I felt amazing but I wasn't recovering fast enough and kept getting injured (pain in the lower-left back region).

[@Mark-sn6kh]

Yup. I think rippetoe says since it's such a demanding lift once you get into high weight pulls it's just too much to do it at 3 sets multiple days a week.

[@surajpatil8670]

@@Mark-sn6kh my bad, I meant Stronglifts not Starting Strength. But yeah, even in Starting Strength deadlifts is just 1x5.

[@Matt_Dylan]

Same

[@doodoo7207]

Lord 💀

[@gilabola4642]

Never tried starting strength, but started stronglift 10 yr ago without bench & OHP due to my shoulder problem and it "fixed" my recuring lower back issue believe it or not. Then tried 531 for over a year and then stop both. After 3yr of machines & isolation, back to 5x5 and love it.

[@shivampathak3004]

Bro I am doing stronglifts 5x5 from 1 week I saw a great progress...just go for it guys 💥💯

[@JayMoney-hd1jl]

In two months my lifts went from total novice 40 kg squat to 2pl8 and I still reckon I could carry it on for another year, maybe two?

[@cavpf]

I change 5x5 to 3x5. Because of volume! Squats volume were killing me, my joints. With 3x5 i can heal and recover for next training session.

[@muddy250]

Great video, very clear information well presented. I'm 3 weeks into SS and never heard of stronglifts. Being 59 years old and never lifted I found SS through greysteel and took it from there. I am seeing results but think I'll do as you suggested soon and switch programmes, maybe increase volume to 4x5 to start and add in the BB rows. I like the look of the Stronglifts app too. Thanks!

[@gregorymccoy6797]

A timid novice will stick with starting strength. Strong lifts will burn out a rank novice. I personally use 5x5 but only after I was lifting for 7 months.

[@TheReal_DeanD]

For me I like Stronglifts 5x5 more because it got me to find the Massive Iron channel.

[@jamesbenedict7516]

What year is it? 2012? I've really miss these type of vids. I can remember I've done your version of 531 and really blew up in both strength and size. Hope this goes on 🙏

[@antoninb.6735]

Doing 531 myself I'm curious about that. Do you have a link for the ressource you used ? :)

[@joethesheep4675]

sorry but the premise is just incorrect. The premise presented here is "less volume versus more volume" but it really is "higher intenity versus more volume" because, obviously 3x5 is higher intensity than 5x5. I personally would recommend intensity over volume for starters.

[@joethesheep4675]

@Federov81 low intensity can easily result in practicing bad form because you can lift a submaximal weight with bad form. So no, absolutely not. High intensity forces you to aply proper form and is, therefore better for form.

[@rm2kmidi]

The 5x5 isn't an arbitrary number. The optimal training range is somewhere between 50-80% of your max and between 3 to 8 reps. 5 x5 puts it right down the middle and is easy to remember. StrongLifts typically progresses to Madcow 5x5 which deals with the fatigue of squatting heavy all the time. Me personally, I wouldn't do a program that didn't have squats every workout. It's a fundamental movement that works your whole body.

[@badoing7390]

The guy who "made" strong lifts isn't an experienced power lifter or strength coach, he's a marketing nerd who took a basic training regiment, slapped a name on it and made a website. In the old days his forum was pay to access for about £10 a month and he called it the "inner circle". Marketing genius. SL works because it's beginner linear progression, but there's much better options out there.

[@carnivorehitman]

There is a very easy way to improve upon SL5x5: Squats only for 3x5 or even 2x5 instead of 5x5. This alone makes a HUGE difference. Additionally, you can add 2-3 sets of curls/chins to the end of one workout and a set 2-3 sets of pushups to the other. Problem solved. This evens out the upper body development, improves recovery and makes it a more "rounded" program.

[@christophercattie]

When I first got back into lifting, the volume of SL was entirely too much. I tried SL for about a moth and was just sick. SS is to lifting what C25K is to running. It can take a person who hasn't picked up a weight in 25 years and get them going at it. I switched to SS and ran it for almost 6 months before I switched to another program (just needed to switch things up). I look at SL as the program a guy who might already be kinda fit or in shape can start with. Good video though.

[@beesmongeese2978]

What program did you follow after 6 months of SS?

[@MrDiscussion]

According to SS coaches, you haven't done SS if u did it for 6 months. It's only possible for max 3 months. After that, you can move on to the texas method or something.

[@TheZammyboss]

@@JIMBEAMM did you use the app?

[@trollbertmctrollson3883]

You sound like a bitch. No, strike that, you are most certainly a bitch.

[@thorwannabe6810]

@@trollbertmctrollson3883 chill

[@1978carpenter]

Great video. I went from SL to SS when I couldn't handle the volume anymore. Did SS for a while and moved on to a 531 variation: press and deadlifts one day and then bench and squats the next. All work well for a while and I keep getting a little stronger every time.

[@philippmeister4488]

I prefer SS, because volume is a problem for me. You can switch to two heavy squat workouts and one light squat workout to handle fatigue, when the lifts are to heavy to recover from. One advantage of a not restrict SS: You can easily add some assistance or isolation exercises, because of the low volume. But don't overload the system and adding tons of exercises and get stuck in the big lifts.

[@philippmeister4488]

And if aesthetics matters: Add some diet weeks or speed-weeks. But eat enough to make progress in regular weeks. This will cost progress, but it will be healthier to get no overweight. And dieting over 20 Pounds away at the end of the program is no fun and will cost strength and time also.

[@RasputinReview]

have you uhhhh.... read the SS book? Because you really, clearly haven't SS is a 4 stage process

[@tom20023800]

Thank you for your video, I take by your preference for SL you have not done either program? I have run both programs multiple times. However, my best results have come from SS, the reason is that the volume associated with SL does not allow a novice trainee to to a high enough intensity to keep driving the LP. For example the most my squated while doing SL was 120kg 5x5. With SS I was able to progress to a 160kg squat and I can assure you that ther was more muscle gain following SS. SL is not a bad programme, consistency and compliance will get the best result every time, but I would encourage everyone to try SS LP.

[@Fortress333]

I much prefer power cleans over barbell rows and I think the volume as prescribed by Starting Strength is right. Novices don't need 5 x 5 with a set weight across. Starting Strength works, but you'd have to do the program; and following the program is not something most are doing, even though they say they are. Both programs have an excellent selection of exercises. In fact, it's just the who's who of barbell training: back squats, (bench) presses, deadlifts, power cleans... Chin-ups are great to do, too. Nothing against barbell rows, but if someone is willing to work at the power cleans, I'd recommend focusing on those instead of barbell rows.

[@nicholasbrattoli7233]

I agree a lot about not being able to recover as well on strong lifts. Being older and having bad joints takes a little extra care to not overdo things.

[@josephkennedy8962]

I prefer the Starting Strength 3x5 program for the simple reason that The workouts are more time efficient. 5 x 5 takes a long time, and it’s more difficult to recover from that extra volume. Having said that, I agree that I would like to see a program that involves squatting only two times a week, and focuses a bit more on the upper body.

[@jonallen979]

Just take out one squat session and your right where you want to be.

[@duanedaisy7731]

Or replace one with hip thrust.

[@dannyg6045]

If your a beginner or your lifts are below these zones or near (for average height and weight male). Bench

[@SinnedNogara]

Those numbers are arbitrary my bench stalled around 170 for 5x5. Then I jumped on BBM's intermediate program and my bench shot up.

[@dannyg6045]

@@SinnedNogara Started off with to much volume. Ive trained dozens of guys their bench started off at 100lbs and i got it up to 255-315 with starting strength in a matter of 2-3 months. And no those numbers aren't arbitrary. You just don't know how to program along a persons potential continuum. Less is more until its not. The whole key is some sort of progressive over load with continually more volume. 170 is abysmal unless your a tiny girl then praise your mediocre gains. Maybe youll understand the tanning example - if your pale as shit then tan for 5 mins every other day then when your tanner you continually need more sun every day to get darker. If your pale just don't go blast 5 hours of intense sun light youll be freaking sunburned and take forever to recover. How long will you take to recover from that?? a week then your in the same spot when you heal and your still pale. This is almost the exact same thing as programming for strength. less is more until its not.

[@takatsu5]

I don't know about Stronglifts but Starting Strength is in a book with details on how to do the lifts.

[@kenny1138]

You have vids that show u how to do the lifts on StrongLifts

[@danielivanov7787]

Best program is SS with pendlays instead of cleans, can get gains for years before needing a drastic change.

[@kamo7293]

in retrospective starting stronglifts as a novice was a bad idea for me. I was reaching my limit very early on and failing lifts was very demotivating. I think it would have been better to go with starting strength, with less total volume I would have had more motivation to do it I think. Also I was never a fan of the rows

[@anthonyurso9366]

Can plan having set days were intensity is a lot lower and just work technique. Also don’t have to increase weight every set as long as over all tonnage is increased body will adapt to more work load. Would just use these programs as guideline and go off of feel

[@ricksanchez8451]

I think these are great programs for novice lifters. I think it’s best to wait until some gains more experience with knowing how to manage fatigue and programming before they incorporate the rep goal system. I used it once I got stuck at a weigh.

[@MassiveIron]

Well, to be fair, if you got stuck at a weight when maximizing sets it would be the same story on linear progression. It's not normal for beginners to get stuck for extended periods of time unless they lack drive, consistency, or have sub-par nutrition.

[@ryandeffley7652]

After all these years, I still LOVE full body 3x weekly. It isn't just for beginners. You can still get great continual results over time. But the flaw for me with both these programs was the absence of unilateral work or actual deadlift volume. Back squats 3x weekly is overkill IMO. **I prefer a unilateral like Bulgarian split squats or lunges 1x weekly, actual deadlift volume 1x weekly, and back squats 1x weekly. Feels more well rounded and better gains on deadlifts too.

[@TheLouisianan]

I understand what I have is an opinion, but SS recommends low deadlift volume since it's high intensity and deadlifts are naturally taxing on your CNS. If you low bar squat high intensity as well, it drives your deadlift performance with the posterior chain work, but with less harmful effect on your CNS due to the stretch reflex.

[@ryandeffley7652]

@@TheLouisianan - I am personally not a fan of the "Rippetoe" low bar squat. It tends to promote too much forward lean and lower back rounding. You can get still get posterior chain activation with a high bar squat if you're hitting proper depth. Plus it forces you to be in a more stable position. I do agree that deadlift frequency should be lower @ 1x p/wk. But I make better gains with 3-4 sets than 1 set.

[@TheLouisianan]

@@ryandeffley7652 To each their own

[@grantbennett7819]

@@ryandeffley7652 Plus it works your quads more

[@FoundWanting970]

Ryan Deffley How does his squat promote forward leaning and fuller back rounding when his book literally tries to combat those two things?

[@alendizdarevic8937]

I have the Starting Strengths book and it does include pendlay row once you move out of novice stage. I do agree with you with adding more variation and volume. Great videos.

[@stoempert]

Once the weights get challenging on these programs set 3 or 4/5 are basically RPE 9/10 every time. Expecting people to recover and grow within 48 hours and add 2,5 kg each time is imo too much.

[@anthonyluisi7096]

stoempert , I agree brother . I’m 59 yo and I’m at the grinding phase . My damn joints hurt all the time . Insomnia , fatigue . I feel like shit and unmotivated right now ... I can’t recover in 48 hours 😨

[@UniversalSoldier3k]

@@anthonyluisi7096 Sounds brutal. There are a few things you can do though: lower the amount of sets to 3, reduce the progression to 1 kg, train twice per week with two rest days in between.

[@willbollman6246]

Bottom line is you can't get stronger without continuously adding weight to the lifts. The excessive volume in stronglifts will burn you out much quicker than SS causing the lifter to eventually have to deload. Deloading obviously occurs at some point in SS as well but I believe you can add weight for much longer...there is also the recovery issue. Stronglifts will require much more time to recover from in the long run. It's just too much volume. There is more longevity with SS. Just my opinion after switching to SS from SL

[@robertogirolamo5475]

What about starting with lower volumes and then, after a month or so, transitioning to higher volumes, maybe compensating with some more calories intake to stimulate hypertrophy some more? Let's say you start 3x5 and add weight daily, then when you start stalling, you transition to 4x5 and 5x5 lowering the intensity a bit, and then go back to 3x5 PR? Wouldn't this be better?

[@Damian.Williams]

I've trained a lot of novices on programs based around SL and only one around SS (as he didn't like the volume on SL ) 5's are great to keep a novice in good form, And I agree Squats twice a week is enough... I get them doing pull ups, chin's, push ups, rows, asap.... great video 😀

[@bennygilligan]

Really enjoyed the video keep the great content coming

[@duanewolfe2321]

Thanks for sharing Steve!

[@achaarpickler]

Both are great programs for beginners and someone who is an intermediate lifter just looking to stay fit....

[@WaleedAhmed-em1ke]

Well, I think both programs are amazing; but the only difference would be a choice of the student/trainee. In other word, if you choose to be less exhausted to complete your day of being effective at your job, then you choose Starting Strength. However, if you choose to build up more muscles mass faster for a competition or you train at night when you finished with your daily job, I think Stronglifts can better serve you. My opinion here is based on one year training with Starting Strength that they helped me to build a muscles mass that I am very satisfied with their job, and all I needed after my training session is 10 minutes nap to be able to go to my job alert and reenergized. The only thing that I will add for both of them is that they need to add some rotator cuff exercises even once a week because or at least to give home work of these exercises with a band to trainees so that they can avoid shoulder-impingement injuries. Thanks!!!

[@danielglen472]

StrongLifts eventually moves to 3x5 anyway, because doing 5x5 at heavier weights will make you stall progress much sooner. It's somewhat designed to keep you on the program, while Starting Strength is designed to get you off the program and onto better things.

[@AVB15]

I personally use the GZCLP program because of accessory exercises.

[@pfeiffdog0811]

StrongLifts has done wonders for me and I am about to start it up again however I am confident the SS would have the same outcome.

[@pfeiffdog0811]

Eugene Stoner you are right but I stopped a long time ago and now have to start somewhere again.

[@Mukation]

In hindsight a split between the two seem more obvious. SS for lower body and SL for upper body.

[@redsoxwinagain2007]

Interesting thoughts on squat frequency. I think it is so strongly (no pun intended) suggested because of its overall value towards a full body workout. While the biggest effects are toward legs, it involves many body parts with benefits. I have used both programs and admit to mixing the two. After a year, you get bored and move on to 531, Texas, or others. I hate dips but need to start doing them more.

[@ckennedy1973]

Being a novice, starting strength program works best for me

[@jonclarke5568]

Apples and Oranges. This is SS novice to advanced novice. So this is only part of the "program". SS is really a set of principles not a program.

[@rustyshackleford735]

You may wanna alternate with wendlers 531 program. Maybe 8-12weeks of each. I used starting strength and wendlers to start because they have some very solid beginning programs that are different enough to keep the body stimulated into steady progress. I put hundreds of pounds on the big threes in the first year alternating between the two. That's my seasoned advise for a beginner to not have to worry to much about understanding programming while getting the benefits of programming. Work hard bro

[@powskier]

Go with the one with less volume if you are older.

[@zxsw85]

Legit review. Fees super credible Thanks for sharing

[@iesiediesie74]

I believe in SS powerclean 5x3 not 3x5

[@RyanAmplification]

The two main reasons I like stronglifts is the app is excellent and free and the volume is better. Ss has an app but I tried it and like stronglifts a lot more. With the volume being too high, I agree if you start with the bar. For my wife, squatting just the bar was too much at first. She started with bodyweight then a 10 lb dumbbell then 15 lb dumbbell then 2 10 lb dumbbells then 2 15 lb dumbbells then a 35 lb kettlebell before starting with the bar. That was a good way for her to build up her squat without doing too much.

[@Gh0stwhipz]

What does he mean by arbitrary? Why would you think the 3x5 or 5x5 is arbitrary

[@squidkiller5263]

I use Bill Starr’s 5 x 5 program, i have seen great results from it.

[@jeffreybabino8161]

Hi what is bill stars program 5x5 😊

[@oliverallen5324]

Starting Strength into a Texas/5x5 centric program is best. But you knew that before you came down here.

[@waynegroover]

I feel like this is probably an ignorant question, but what is a Texas 5x5 Centric program?

[@gabem8712]

@@waynegroover hes refering to programs like stronglifts 5 by 5 and the texas method

[@alec1020]

U could just do a mix of both instead of trying pick and choose between how much volume u need, for example if ur doing stronglifts and u just feel 5 by 5 squats is killing u but the 5 by 5 bench is fine then u can just switch ur squat to a 3 by 5 and leave the bench on 5 by 5 no big deal.

[@dannyg6045]

No all muscle group's need less volume until you plateau with that volume range. You can always go up with volume but its hard to come back down to make gains. Don't ruin your potential with massive amount of volume until your advanced lifter and that means weight wise not time. Your not advanced even if you been doing a lift for 100 years.

[@general2109]

I’m thinking of dropping squats on my deadlift day to a 3x5. That shit beats me the fuck up. I’ll see how that works and maybe switch to a squat 2x/week and add some chin ups or dips on a DL day.(I run SL)

[@DoomFinger511]

In stronglifts you are suppose to switch to 3x5 for any exercise if you fail the exercise 3 times in a row, then deload by 10%, and fail again.

[@paulwhite9242]

I get having people do both squat and deads for the first few weeks just to practice the lifts, and get a handle on form, but after that why not split them up? They're both pretty demanding but (for most of us) productive.

[@stevesedgwick5789]

I think in general your information is correct, but maybe peoples should start with starting strength for a few months, then move onto strong lifts? Wonder what “RIP” thinks?

[@doleme1]

I like your fair opinion on the programs Thank you

[@yettamon956]

5 sets is a bit too much for me the 3rd set was the last set I can do well the 4th set was flaw already. can't keep 5 reps may be 3 at max and yet for 5 sets you might probably got DOMs and the longer you need to rest I can say 3x5 you probably safe to do 3 times a week

[@chefkoo]

How about combining the two to get the best of both worlds? Go with Stronglifts, but do 3x5 on the squats

[@grantbennett7819]

What is your opinion on alternating the press and bench every WO? One of the reasons Rippetoe defeneds this switch is to prevent shoulder injury. However, many people say that only benching 1 out of every 2 WOs neglects the chest, which is why SS graduates end up with a disproportionate physique upon its completion: huge legs, little chest.

[@sharkwolf7788]

I found that adding a set of weighted dips on the press day helped a lot. Pushed my bench progress and added a little more growth to chest

[@Adeem_Ahmed]

How much of your rep max should you be lifting to do strong lifts 5x5?

[@laotl6934]

After a lengthy time away from the gym, I started the Stronglifts program to get my feet wet again. I did recently switch to the Ketogains 5x5 which is based on Stronglifts with some added arm work. Do you have any opinions on the Ketogains 5x5? Love your channel.

[@antoninb.6735]

Which one ? 531. Less plateauing, overuse injuries, more rep range and movement variety/flexibility. 3x a week squatting can be too much especially with a fast linear progression. If the form is not tuned in. As it's often the case for novices low bar squatting, a groin pull or some hip flexor strain is right around the corner.

[@antoninb.6735]

@Eugene Stoner Mark Rippetoe has shed a light on important aspects of strength training. And helped promoting basic and efficient barbell training. But his program is basically a hammer looking at everything like it was nails. His stand on recovery, stretch, massage (which happen to prevent alot of injuries), postural exercises being negative, and the lack of volume/planned progression are big issues imo. 531 addresses that perfectly. The percentage system helped me burst through plateaus easily and I made better gains with it without injuries.

[@garagegorilla63]

My first “program” was Bill Starr’s The Strongest Shall Survive! So I lean towards starting. But both have merit. And keep in mind there are no perfect programs. Steve, I’d like to see something for guy in his 50’s or more!

[@lanceh5521]

Starting Strength (SS) is not a 5x5 program despite how it keeps being referred to as such in this video. Stronglifts is a direct rip off of Starting Strength. Why do more volume when a 3x5 solicits the proper response? SS is all about minimum effective dosage. Sure, eventually the lifters program will need the be adjusted, but there is no need for all the extra volume when not necessary especially when both of these are toted as "strength" methods/programs.

[@MassiveIron]

It's a crap program. Both of them are.

[@MSchmitz77]

Overall I think Stronglifts is the better program, but if you have any intention of doing any oly lifting in the future you better do power cleans instead of rows. Additionally it's a good idea to add in extra arm/shoulder work; right now I'm doing curls and one handed farmers walks as auxiliary exercises. The one handed farmers walk also is good extra core and grip work.

[@zackt.7727]

I’m on my third week of starting strength and I honestly think it’s better than StrongLifts. Squatting 3x/a week for 5x5 is just way too fatiguing. 3x5 is better. On top of that, in phase 1 of SS, you’re deadlifting 3x/a week to perfect your form. From what I’ve seen, starting strength handles stalls, plateaus, and form corrections way better than StrongLifts. Only con is learning cleans is going to be a pain, but it’s better than doing StrongLifts

[@Bumiround]

For me starting strength give enough stimulus to keep adding weight each session, until our lifts become heavy enough to disturb recovery. Then we simply need to adjust the frequency of squat and deadlift

[@danski6694]

I thought they were basically the same? 5 x 5 method with 5 pound increments

[@jeffreybabino8161]

Hi I like both I have used both thay are both good thanks Steve

[@samguapo4573]

I think starting strength should be the more advanced phase and you begin with strong lifts first.

[@silky316silky316]

Very good comparison and understandable for us novices. Is there a novice full body program you prefer over these two?

[@charleswalton5132]

You're missing the point of the starting strength method, it's not a body building routine. Lower volume with the right resistance is better for sustainable strength gains. Especially for me at 60 yo.

[@MassiveIron]

Charles, as a coach I can tell you at least 75% of my muscle building clients have tried this. Where the rubber meets the road lifters are using this for muscle. In addition, Rippetoe himself has claimed ridiculous muscle gains for at least one client.

[@Cichlidman]

I started with starting and strength for a long time that I moved over to strong lifts now I just self regulate the lifts more or less strong list though

[@surfside-hj2ue]

Starting Strength is much better for older guys 50+ because the recovery is better. Plus, I have always like "cleans". I read where the best overall exercise for your entire body is the clean & press. And you will feel your body get strong ever time you do it. I think the article said if you were to choose only one exercise the clean & press would be the best one. Thanks for the vid.

[@evanserickson]

Doesn’t SS have rows in phase two?

[@zajicapp]

I would vote SS as you can go much further before plateau on 3x5 vs 5x5. You can always add more volume after you've finished running SS as written. Once your squatting above 300 for work-sets 5x5 will kill you! It's science.....

[@stevenh7095]

that just means your work capacity is sucky. 300 lbs 5x5 isn't that much.

[@jeffreybabino8161]

People don't know what is involved in training what it takes to get to ware you are at a very big commitment

[@nkupianist]

I'd probably argue SS, because it'll extend that newbie gain period longer with lower volume. But I'd do neither for more than maybe 6-8 weeks if I could turn the clock back. Done for too long, it's soul crushing for no good reason, and there's nothing magical about it anyway. The rep goal system makes a ton more sense - stop a set around RPE 8-9, when form starts getting iffy, and go for total volume. The SS stereotype of a chubby guy eating 5k calories a day so he can grind out his near failure low bar squats with 275 and rest for 10 minutes between sets exists for a reason. As another poster commented, it puts you on a terrible footing when moving on to the next program. By the time you cut off excess weight, you're where you'd have been on a sensible, less aggressive program anyway.

[@Valkaneer]

You can't lift as high with a 5x5, and Rip is the GOAT, if he thought 5x5 was worth it he would be doing it. Also what is Stronglifts saying for warm up? Starting Strength warmup is quite extensive.

[@melsoro7311]

Starting Strength. Even though both these programs have a lot of flaws, SL 5x5 had so many logical flaws I don't think the writer knows anything. So much bad advice.

[@melsoro7311]

@Bob Donald not enough volume. No isolation work. No work on biceps triceps calves traps forearms. False promises. Bad nutrition advice. Low training frequency. Unechievable progression goals

[@melsoro7311]

@Bob Donald I'm 5'6 and weigh 65kg

[@melsoro7311]

@Bob Donald indeed I am

[@melsoro7311]

@Bob Donald no problem. It's nice to have different theories and philosophies in the fitness world

[@holisticjake]

5x5 is way harder to progress than 3x5

[@UniversalSoldier3k]

That's why SL reduces the reps and sets to 3x5, 3x3 and 3x1 once the weights get very heavy.

[@RYANkMCCARTHY]

I think if squats are to happen 3 days per week, then maybe they should be specialized. Maybe one day heavy, one day for light volume, another day for light pause squats.

[@atruescotsmanuth2481]

Yeah I've been doing stronglifts for months and I've came to the conclusion that if you deadlift the same day you squat, you can go a bit lighter. Then, I prefer a 3x3 for deadlift and I alternate 5x5 and 8x3 for bench and ohp. Idk though but I like the program this way more

[@abelardoruiz5544]

Question: what is your opinion about assisted exercises like using a machine for pull ups or dips????

[@DarkAbyss9]

Use bands instead, the assistant machines are rubbish

[@sheadoherty7434]

Lose weight.

[@zeroman155]

I wish that my father had all the knowledge of Steve Shaw! I would be in excellent physical shape today. Unfortunately, neither of my parents have ever lifted weights a day in their life.😅 I am having to learn as I go, reading books and watching KZbin guys like Steve. Thanks for all the great information. 😊

[@redsoxwinagain2007]

There is no reason you cannot mix them. I do. I aim to do 5 sets but make sure I get in at least 3. Alternate the cleans and rows. For arms, I do at least 2 types of movements with at least 2-3 sets and alternate to rotate between workouts. However, for each, I try to do some type of curl, some type of extension, and some form of pulling. Tip on squats... do a 5x5 set with the same weight as your last workout and then on the other, increase by 5 pounds with a 3x5 set.

[@rayshafer6372]

I've done strong lifts for a year and half and I have made some impressive gains but its not working anymore. Do you have any workouts to keep progressing in my bench press,

[@DaneMeulen]

@Becoming Godsize Where is he saying that? He is just saying he made good gains from it, probably with a few deloads.

[@UniversalSoldier3k]

After maxing out on SL I'd do Madcow 5x5 and Wendler 5/3/1.

[@no-trick-pony]

Thanks for this great video! I found you because James Linker recommended you. Question as both programmes as well as mine rely on squats and deadlifts: I am facing lower back issues right now: Can you suggest replacement exercises to deadlifts and squats that don't strain the lower back too much? :/

[@tonytaylor5165]

Try out trap bar deadlifting 👍

[@shoebiqbal2253]

Starting strength is the best program. He should sit down with Mark ripptoe so that he explains about FAAAVH and HIP DRIVE to him.

[@johnnyb6584]

Over 2 week period Squats 150 sets Deadlifts 15 sets. Some imbalance! Bench, Overhead, Rows 75 sets

[@r.lohengramm8709]

That is due to the fact that in Starting Strength program at least, you are low bar squatting. With low bar squats you use your hamstrings and gluteus a lot more than you might think. So on Starting Strength, increasing your squat WILL basically increase your deadlift aswell. One more thing, deadlifts dont need as many sets as squats, because as you probably know if you ever deadlifted (and I assume you did) that exercise fatigues you when you just think about it too hard, lol. And due to that fact, one set per workout is just enough to stimulate gains.

[@Boris_Medved]

Becoming Godsize second that

[@chrismorgan1838]

reps not sets