State of IPv6-Only on LINUX: Do you need a CLAT?

[@lavishjaat]

The video that I have been waiting for. Thanks apalrd.

[@PugnaEnjoyer]

Love your ipv6 videos

[@soupborsh6002]

My new fiber provider Allline promised public ipv4 but after connecting to it it refuses to disable cgnat and give dynamic public ipv4, as well as, it does not have ipv6 at all.😡 It is the only fiber internet provider in my area, I have used 4G one before, it used CGNAT and blocked IPv6 incoming connections and was unstable 16-150mbit/s as opposed to new evil one that is constant 200mbit/s.

[@masterflitzer]

i've seen that exact comment already somewhere...

[@soupborsh6002]

@@masterflitzer I wrote it first time, but I think this type of ISPs is common.

[@derdeolifant]

Good news! If your connection uses CGNAT, then you DO have a dynamic public IPv4 address! Every IP4 connection you make will originate from a dynamic public IPv4 address! Congratulations!

[@masterflitzer]

@@derdeolifant that's bad news...

[@blackphidora]

Have you seen many people who run IPV6 islands, without public ipv6 connectivity?

[@NickBuraglio-r2h]

Great content, thanks for making it.

[@vaidkun]

seems that ipv6 is stuck in same situation as Linux for desktop. It's viable but has lots of complications and thigs you need to figure out, substitute, compromise. Also, there always people who say this year will be Linux desktop year, but it never happens.

[@apalrdsadventures]

Dual Stack on Linux works perfectly fine, as it does with all other OSes. IPv6-only support is a bit different. In general Linux fundamentally releases software as source and not as binary, so fixing IPv6 binding problems in major apps is not usually a big code change to use getaddrinfo(), and with the source being available and modifiable, the Linux community sees poor IPv6 support in an app as an app bug to fix and not a problem with the system requiring a translator for legacy apps.

[@vaidkun]

@@apalrdsadventures My post is not about that. It's irony Linux not becoming mainstream desktop OS is similar to IPv6 situation. for many years it's coming, it's better etc... but still there so many problems, compromises or stuff not working with Linux on Desktop (for most people, there people who perfectly fine with Linux desktop and I'm happy for them). IPv6 sits at similar situation on paper is way better it should already be implemented but still problems remain, need workarounds compromises and tinkering, that is preventing it going mainstream. I work at very big IT company and for most internal and even external stuff IPv4 is mainly used. If talking about home/consumer market domestic ISP crappy implementations of IPv6/dual stack does not help.

[@autohmae]

I really hope we'll get a proper ePBF solution, maybe at the connect level like the dynamic library ?

[@ameziol]

your displays shake so much i get anxious while watching ur videos. Very cool content despite that tho!

[@apalrdsadventures]

they are on long arms, which are mounted with a clamp to the table, which is tall and sitting on soft carpet. They won't go anywhere, they just jiggle

[@ameziol]

Jiggle jiggle

[@peeboo]

@@ameziol Jiggle jiggle

[@NickBouwhuis]

For Netherlands. KPN is already doing 464XLAT on mobile. Meanwhile Odido still has their head in the sand and claims to have "other priorities" for implementing v6.

[@apalrdsadventures]

Can you use their NAT64 on your own? Either by pinging 64:ff9b::9.9.9.9 (if they are using the well-known prefix) or doing a dns aaaa lookup for ipv4only.arpa? I'm not sure which providers support which options, but it seems like the second one is fairly common with mobile providers, sometimes both

[@leobardostephenlincolnstrangez]

Loved the Laika shirt

[@mactan_sc]

always funny when people wander into a forum asking why their online games dont work when they disabled ipv6 for their entire system/network

[@ipavemyownroad]

I've been running IPv6 only for years without issue

[@FaithMediaChannel]

❤

[@masterflitzer]

i'd love a video about nat64 with jool instead of tyga

[@WaylandGaming]

So we can’t play old games with server browsers and dedicated community servers? They tend to be IPv4 addresses. How well do game consoles perform? PlayStation, Xbox, Nintendo? I’m guessing the Steam Deck will be fine since it’s Linux.

[@apalrdsadventures]

It very much depends on the game and the matchmaking system the game is using. All of the console platforms support IPv6 in their platform and have for at least a decade now, but it's somewhat up to the game developers to implement it in their networking code. Historically, Steam was absolutely terrible about this, but fairly recently they have added v6 support to their matchmaking API, and if games use their networking library, everything will suddenly work fine over v6. Likewise, the biggest names in game engines support IPv6 natively, but of course many game devs like to feel special and do their own thing. With 464xlat, though, the game can't tell the difference between CGNAT, so it will work the same way for legacy IP games.

[@WaylandGaming]

@@apalrdsadventures I mainly play older Call of Duty games on PC that use dedicated servers from the community, accessed through a server browser. They’re all literal IPv4 addresses with port 3074. That’s possible with 464xlat if the network is configured as IPv6-only? New to IPv6. I’ll watch the video again. Just recently got IPv6 from my ISP. Been wishing for it for years. Still learning some stuff and it’s much more confusing than IPv4. I want my network to be as IPv6-only/reliant/preferred as much as possible. But gaming seems like will hold me back a bit.

[@apalrdsadventures]

With 464XLAT yes. There are basically 3 common ways to do IPv6: Dual Stack - Network provides native v6 + native v4 to hosts (very common) - so your IPv4 servers would continue to work fine. Native v4 is always behind NAT, and sometimes behind CGNAT, which means native v6 is preferred for peer to peer stuff since it can avoid NAT traversal, but v4 NAT will work as well as it did before. NAT64 + DNS64 - Network provides native v6 + NAT64 to access IPv4 services. Network translates DNS requests to the NAT64 prefix, so applications which request a resource over DNS get an IPv6 address which includes the IPv4 address of the destination, and access via NAT64. This does not work if the app doesn't use DNS or forces IPv4-only sockets. Requires no software on the host. NAT64 + CLAT (464XLAT) - Network provides native v6 + NAT64 as before. But instead of translating at the DNS level, the host then does the inverse translation (v4 -> v6). IPv4 packets get translated to v6 by software on the host and then NATed back to v4 by the network. This means the host still has an IPv4 socket and can do literal IPv4 connections from any app and the network doesn't need to implement IPv4. This is what a lot of cell providers use now, so the CLAT function is widely supported by Android/iOS, but not so much by other OSes, since this requires a CLAT program running on the host to do the translation. 464XLAT appears to the application nearly identical to CGNAT, so if the game server can deal with that, it will work over 464xlat. Incoming connections are very tricky, much like CGNAT.

[@no0ne.]

Does Steam work with tnat64?

[@UnderEu]

Nope.avi Steam fails to login with both clatd and tnat64 - at least, on my native client (Ubuntu MATE 22.04), matter of fact it's the only software I have which refuses to work on IPv6-only* mode

[@no0ne.]

🤦🏻‍♂️ It does indeed work with the CLAT introduced in the last two MacOs versions.

[@spencersolberg]

8:25 lmao

[@elalemanpaisa]

I think 50% of the traffic goes through ipv4 just because the client sites are not configured properly. In our whole country ISPs do not even offer V6 and we have 60m people who use the internet like crazy (no it's not a 3rd world country before you ask) I don't get it since you can only provision so many customers per ipv4 address for that ugly cnat and the addresses are expensive

[@apalrdsadventures]

Numbers vary a lot depending on who's numbers they are. Google is measuring how much traffic they have over v4/v6 flowing to/from their network. This measures the rate that clients who use Google have adopted IPv6. Lack of adoption usually means it's an ISP issue, and a lack of v6 adoption by ISPs usually correlates to countries which had really big IPv4 pools because they got into the game early (i.e. India and China both have very small IPv4 pools and are really into IPv6). Likewise the fact that Google's stats go up on the weekends and holidays points to a trend of poor v4 adoption in enterprise networks. For ISPs they see the opposite statistic - if an ISP rolls out IPv6 to their customers, most will use it by default, so their metric is essentially measuring how many servers are accessible via IPv4. For an ISP with v6 support, they may see a number upwards of 80% v6 traffic, which means that 80% of their users traffic is IPv6. This doesn't mean that 80% of servers support v6, it really means that the largest CDNs greatly prefer IPv6 and most user traffic is going to one of those big providers (Google, Meta, Cloudflare, ...).

[@elalemanpaisa]

@@apalrdsadventures yea I totally agree with you on that. That makes me even more sad the whole country has to suffer with a single ipv4 stack behind CGNAT

[@apalrdsadventures]

Are you also the same country that absolutely loves PPPoE still?

[@elalemanpaisa]

@@apalrdsadventures haha no.. well my uplink is directly to the isps router without authentication with dhcp.. wait for it.. v4