Steal this Trick from Worlds Beyond Number & Brennan Lee Mulligan

Brennan Lee Mulligan did a simple, genius Dungeon Master move in the prelude episode of Worlds Beyond Number and I has to talk to about. I don't even know what to call it but I'll be using in in my home game and I bet you will too.
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[@wadz6879]

this roll actually has a name, coined "Rolling with Emphasis" by the man himself

[@RdotDoyle]

Oh cool, I've seen that going around since I made this but didn't realize it came down from BLM. Good to know, you know where he said that?

[@efrique]

I'd call that a *crisis roll*; when you're in a situation where you'll likely succeed well (get past the moss without slipping) or fail miserably (slip badly and slide back down to where you were but now wet and muddy), and where middling results are less likely (if you slip a little you're not likely to be able to grab on and then keep going without additional difficulty).

[@RdotDoyle]

Oh, good name, great perspective. There are definitely cases where middling results are less likely then the extremes just logically, let alone narratively. That’s a good one to think about it

[@CaseyWilkesmusic]

That’s my favourite so far. One word that makes sense and brings an element of tension

[@jjicebeam]

I vote for calling this the "Dynamic Roll".

[@RdotDoyle]

That’s good. I’m hearing it shortened to “Dynaroll” but maybe that sounds more like dinosaur than dynamo. Although… that’s not necessarily a bad thing I guess 🦕

[@Mongoosejack]

OMG!! This is so COOL!!!😆🙌 I am absolutely adding this rule to my toolbox!!!😆 I'm probably just gonna end up calling it a "Brennan"😋

[@RdotDoyle]

So good right?! I love it, had to rush this out

[@someone1999]

From the context of what was going on, I’m assuming this might have been from one of the childhood prequels that happened before the “real” campaign began? In a sort of flashback, this makes more sense - we want this to be something memorable. A big success or failure would be great here.

[@RdotDoyle]

Exactly right. Although it’s brave to decide you want the most dramatic swing possible either way in a prequel when you’ve already got things established it could (potentially but probably not) impact

[@nicholainissen]

Roll with emphasis? I think that sounds very expressive of what it is

[@RdotDoyle]

That's a good one. It makes me think of like "bold" roll, or maybe a musical notation. It's been a while for me but like a Fortisimo or something.

[@RevocerGM]

It is a cool rule. As the name 'mulligan' is already used for so many rules - this could simply be the 'Lee Mulligan' I'm still to catch the first full episode, but yep - been loving the tone of the teasers and stuff i've heard so far! The music for Lou Wilson's character's youth in the forest was so beautiful.

[@RdotDoyle]

Ha! I didn’t even think about “taking a Mulligan.” And I agree with you, the music and sound, the whole edit and production value is really great so far, definitely potential to be a new favorite

[@TheGreatUndergroundEmpire]

I’m in the love with the show already, the concept is genius and the performances are👌🏻. I was wide eyed and crying in terrified concern for characters I’ve already come to care deeply about during the bit where (no spoilers) the word house is all echoey. I also just started DMing again last night, and was planning to use the farthest from ten roll as soon as possible. 😄 Brennan already inspired me to write a much more interesting game intro, along the lines of his “describe your character, given that your mouth is full of blood” idea.

[@RdotDoyle]

Awesome! Yeah, he might be my favorite out there. Everything dude touches is gold. I’ve enjoyed a bunch of Dimenison20 and man, Calamity was a real peak for me

[@RecklessFables]

"You can certainly try" is definitely older than CR since I've been hearing it at my table for 15 years or so. :)

[@RdotDoyle]

Ha! Good to know, everything comes from somewhere. I forget which video I said it in, and I probably took it from someone else, but somewhere I said “steal from those who have stolen before you.” “Borrow” may be a kinder word, but we don’t plan to give it back right?

[@divideby000]

Thanks for pointing it out.

[@dane3038]

It's called an "Extreme Roll". My table has been using them since next week.

[@RdotDoyle]

That appeals to the 80s kid in me "Xtreme!"

[@Zamun]

This is an elegant idea, set up to increase the chances of getting a result to the extreme.

[@RdotDoyle]

So good right? I had to rush this one out

[@khayyin359]

"High Stakes Roll" sounds good to me, until/unless a source is found with a different name.

[@RdotDoyle]

No one has brought up a different source yet, doesn’t mean there isn’t one out there but I feel like we might have got it by now

[@CaseyWilkesmusic]

“Swing roll” because it’s extra swingy

[@RdotDoyle]

“Swing roll… sweet chariot”

[@CaseyWilkesmusic]

“Push your luck” roll

[@RdotDoyle]

oh i like this concept, I wonder if there is a way to push it to be like a double or nothing, straight pass fail but only critically either way

[@JScottGaribay]

Love the bookshelves! Thank you for this video!

[@RdotDoyle]

Thank you for the comment! I’ve been thinking about getting copies of some of my favorites to get them in the shot because I’ve given so many books away, but I’ll be buried in books if I’m not careful

[@davidrh6373]

Hahahaha I literally paused the podcast when I heard that line and ran to my dm (who I work with) to share the idea. So happy that someone else got the same giddy excitement as me about some silly roll mechanics.

[@RdotDoyle]

Ha! I love it. Embrace the geeky joy of it all

[@DirtyInSpace]

Thanks for sharing! I didn't know about this podcast but I'm definitely checking it out.

[@RdotDoyle]

I love sharing good stuff. It’s pretty brand new and I think the OGL drama kind of sucked the air out of the room for awhile there. I bet they will have a lot of success with it

[@TheGreatUndergroundEmpire]

@@RdotDoyle What was the OGL drama?

[@RdotDoyle]

I’m happy for you for missing it. It’s settled now, though there is still a lot of anger and distrust echoing around in the community. This goes some way to explaining it but honestly, it will probably be more fun for you to focus on other stuff: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6vWf36wobiKhs0

[@TheGreatUndergroundEmpire]

@@RdotDoyle Ohhhh that! I heard about that, I just didn’t recognize the acronym. 😄 I was sitting here trying to think what show Brennan has been in called OGL. 😅

[@JScottGaribay]

Subscribed!

[@Kralabaka]

I feel like I have heard this rule before but I don't know where. Possibly just from Brennan in another show

[@RdotDoyle]

Oh that’s interesting. I’ve watched a lot of Dimension 20 but definitely not everything, and I know he’s been on a bunch of different games as well

[@JScottGaribay]

Roll Drama! That is how I would call for this type of Roll.

[@RdotDoyle]

I imagine someone looking on their character sheet for their drama modifier

[@Rayne_Storms]

My vote is: Roll With Destiny This is a roll in which you are neither at advantage or disadvantage, but in which the wheels of fate are involved. Causing an outcome that will be dramatically good or bad.

[@Rayne_Storms]

Also I listened to this episode 3 times without realizing how cool it was. Thanks for drawing attention to it.

[@RdotDoyle]

Definitely worth the relisten. I'm very happy with this show so far, almost makes me miss commuting so I have more built in podcast time in my day

[@RdotDoyle]

You saying it that way makes me think of the Dimension20... Box of Doom? I forget what he calls it now but this almost feels like the audio version of that

[@Rayne_Storms]

@@RdotDoyle yeah! The Box of Doom! I wonder if creating an audio version of that was his thought. It certainly did the job.

[@travisbewley7084]

I would love to use this as a "Are you going to play it safe or risk it all?" If you play it safe you take the result close to 10, if you risk it all you take the result further from 10. Play it safe, or the gambit.

[@RdotDoyle]

I really like the concept but I'm not sure if this works for that numbers wise. If I roll an 8 and a 14 I'm stuck with the 8 and probably failing the DC right? I want to find a way to make your concept work though... Closest without going over, Price is Right style? Nope, that would be something else. OK, what if it's like a bardic inspiration die, if you take the gamble you roll a d10, adding to the result on evens and subtracting on odds

[@Saluno375]

Love the shoutout to Thomas Exposition. The funniest thing is how he spontaneously was created by Troy when Skid just completely stonewalled the NPC's dialogue with a "Do I know you?".

[@RdotDoyle]

Ha! They've got so much trust and fun at that table they can get away with some crazy stuff with each other, I love it. I've got less podcast time in my life these days but I'm keeping an eye on their next big PF2E AP because I will probably get on board.

[@Saluno375]

@@RdotDoyle Yeah! I still follow the guys (even listen to the Fod) even though I can't keep up with Strange Aeons. I am also very excited for Gatewalkers, I think that's what will pull me back into GCP.

[@RdotDoyle]

Oh nice, didn’t realized they had something in place. I’ll definitely check that out.was secretly hoping for Abomination Vaults because I think I’ll be running it soon

[@Saluno375]

@@RdotDoyle I haven't heard of Abomination Vaults! Sounds exciting.

[@iamuniversed]

The Drama Roll

[@RdotDoyle]

The drama

[@emessar]

I would call this a horse shoe curve because it would cause the probability to dip in the middle and be higher towards either end. Also, horse shoes are symbolic of luck, and a roll of this kind (if it's a skill roll) would de-emphasize skill in favor of luck. As a side note, it does slightly favor higher rolls, since the average on a d20 is 10.5 ... so there is one more number above 10 than there is below 10 on the d20, and all of the numbers above 10 are above average.

[@RdotDoyle]

Man, I like this a lot. Good name and great supporting argument

[@Wulf6491]

I mean, if only we could call it the Mulligan XD But how about the Cinematic Role, that big, cinematic moment of great failure, or great success.

[@RdotDoyle]

Right? I guess in some ways advantage you can turn on at will is a Mulligan. I like Cinematic for sure. "Cinematic Moment" just sounds nice

[@Zr0din]

Some nice selections on that book shelf!

[@RdotDoyle]

Thanks! I tend to give away my favorites so there's a lot of other books I sometimes wish were still there now that I'm displaying them, but it feels cool to have kind of a literary snap shot

[@GeekPhilosophy]

Great find! This is a great tool for the DM's toolbox. As for a name, maybe something like the Roll of the Fates? Thanks for sharing this with us!

[@RdotDoyle]

Wow Brian, that’s really good. It deserves the capital letters. The floor is still open but we may have a winner

[@GeekPhilosophy]

@@RdotDoyle Awesome! Thanks again for sharing this. I'll be using in my upcoming game.

[@dwdillydally]

Roll with disadvantage Roll with advantage Roll with F A T E

[@EternalCharax]

3:45 for the *actual trick*

[@samdoorley6101]

perhaps the "emphasis roll"?

[@RdotDoyle]

Good one. Is that Brock Sampson?

[@samdoorley6101]

@@RdotDoyle It is indeed!

[@Swenglish]

Ah, a roll with...emphasis?

[@RdotDoyle]

I like this comment, but I might like the name and avatar better.

[@dwdillydally]

potential name: Roll with stakes?

[@Frownlandia]

I immediately texted my DM when I heard this on the podcast. Maybe call it an extreme roll, or rolling extremes? Sounds very 90's.

[@RdotDoyle]

Hahaha, that beings me back. “Hey kids, are your dice… Xtreme!?”

[@frankmartinjr6236]

A tug of roll

[@TheGreatUndergroundEmpire]

Nice. This also feels like a good name for telling two players to roll, and whoever gets furthest from ten wins and the bad thing doesn’t happen to them. 😅

[@RdotDoyle]

Ok, I love this idea

[@MatthewBrpg]

I've been calling it a drama roll.

[@RdotDoyle]

Oh cool, have you been using it already?

[@MatthewBrpg]

@@RdotDoyle No, but as soon as I saw it I knew I wanted to and had to figure out what to call it.

[@Kram1032]

Interestingly, "further from 10" means you have a bunch of undefined dice. If I did my math right, it's: 1: 35 2: 31 3: 27 4: 23 5: 19 6: 15 7: 11 8: 7 9: 3 10: 1 11: 3 12: 7 13: 11 14: 15 15: 19 16: 23 17: 27 18: 31 19: 35 20: 39 ?: 18 outcomes our of 400. where ? is any pairing that is equidistant from 10: 1, 19 2, 18 3, 17 4, 16 5, 15 6, 14 7, 13 8, 12 9, 11 the only roll equidistant from 10 that's unambiguous is 10, 10 which is also the only way to get to that. I wonder what he'd have done if Lou had gotten one of those forbidden combinations? I see four reasonable ways out: 1. reroll the same way until valid - shouldn't take many tries, but would further emphasize this chance distribution in those cases 2. be optimistic - in this case the higher roll counts (would also be consistent with 20 being furthest from 10 and not equidistant with 1) 3. flat luck roll - higher than 10 is a success / means the higher result counts 4. embrace the outcome narratively. - This might be tricky to do, but have some outcome akin to "task failed successfully" or "fission mailed" (two related tropes) where it's somehow a failure and success at the same time. It looks like, under the first strategy here, once the dust settles, stuff extremely far from 10 gets lifted by about ten extra percent over the regular probability (a 20 goes from 3800% more common than 10 to 3810%) whereas stuff close to 10 (i.e. 9 or 11) gets lifted by about an extra 0.5%., with 10 becoming relatively rare. I also checked (statistically across 20^6 trials so all of these are approximate) what happens if you do this with three dice: 10 : 0.014% 9, 11: 0.077% 8,12: 0.454% 7,13: 1.164% 6,14: 2.212% 5,15: 3.597% 4,16: 5.315% 3,17: 7.367% 2,18: 9.756% 1,19: 12.481% 20 : 15.137% In this case, rolling a 20 is more than 1000x as likely as rolling a 10.

[@RdotDoyle]

Great analysis, I'm going to trust your math here. I think if I had an equidistant outcome I'd go with option number three, and talk it up to build more tension. Option four here is also very appealing but I find in practice it's situational, at least for me, how satisfying a mixed success, success with a cost can be. And if we're reaching for this most extreme answer then it feels like 4 would be the opposite of that, which is kind of an argument for and against lol

[@Kram1032]

@@RdotDoyle I figured it depends on what we're talking about, and it could be at the DM's discression to choose one of those. They all feel valid to me. If there is a particular obvious/fun way to have a "fission mailed", then might as well go for this. It's gonna be a rare outcome so it could make sense to honour it. That said, mechanically speaking, 1. actually makes the most sense in that it'd be the method to arrive at "the correct distribution" given this procedure. It's very unlikely that more than one reroll might be needed. It's almost never gonna happen that you'd need more than two. You can also make it symmetric by asking for the greatest distance from 10.5 rather than from 10. Then 1 and 20 once again have the same chance, and 10/11 are the rarest ones. You still end up with these same issue of potential ties you have to resolve in some way.

[@RdotDoyle]

@Kram1032 for sure, it’s always good to have options

[@peterrasmussen4428]

First I want to say, flipping a coin is always an option. But if you want the chance to crit and fumble, and a little more nuance in there, you could call this Extreme Rolls. Eg. Give me an extreme roll for running up the hill.

[@RdotDoyle]

Absolutely, the old d2 is a great fall back as well

[@toasthammer]

Feast or Famine Roll

[@RdotDoyle]

I like that

[@Caiphex]

This is Typically called Rolling with Emphasis. You can't really get a middling roll, just a high or low roll. You will really succeed or really fail.

[@RdotDoyle]

Interesting, I went searching for the term and it seems everything points back to Brennen in this episode. Had you heard of that before?

[@Caiphex]

Not before Brennan did it on the podcast No but we have already started adopting it in my home games. A creator wrote up a whole PDF to explain it which I thought was brilliant

[@nomaaniqbal6065]

Amazing! Maybe call it the all or nothing roll?

[@RdotDoyle]

Oh I like that

[@Mawa5000]

@@RdotDoyle the roll or nothing maybe? :D

[@RdotDoyle]

Oh that’s got potential. Makes me think of double or nothing. Maybe bringing it out when things have already gotten tense and this is like the final attempt

[@vnavone]

What do you do in case of a tie?

[@RdotDoyle]

That’s a great question that I hadn’t considered. My impulse is one more roll, high or low.

[@NafenX]

Decisive... Divisive... Hmmmmmmmm... The Decisive Divisive Dice Dive? (DDDD) 😹 Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue but eghhh.

[@RdotDoyle]

There’s something there, we’re very close

[@zeugenberg]

How to break ties? Is that a 10?

[@RdotDoyle]

Hadn’t thought of this until another comment mentioned it. Depending on circumstances I guess you could call it a mixed result or I might call for one more roll, high or low

[@Scurticus13]

I would call it Pass/Fail

[@RdotDoyle]

Straight up

[@hasmhas]

Roll for extremity?

[@RdotDoyle]

Xtreme!

[@georgesarreas5509]

I already hate advantage and disadvantage. I just use PF 2e/3.5 rules to add to the roll/DC as much or as little is needed so this is a great tool for me to start using two dice. Im calling it "make or break roll"

[@RdotDoyle]

Yeah I used to do a lot of +2 circumstance bonus but weened myself off for adv/dis. Now my one game is PF2E and after the first session I’m happy dropping advantage for more nuance

[@queerlyvictorian]

I think they might be calling it a “luck check” in Worlds Beyond Number? They’ve used that term a couple times, and I can’t really find it in any core mechanics

[@RdotDoyle]

I’m not 100% but that might be something different. When I’ve seen that before and the way I use it at my table a luck check is just a flat D20. Usually high is good, low is bad, sometimes it’s on a spectrum and sometimes it’s just all or nothing

[@douglasphillips5870]

The farthest from 10 roll sounds like it's just adding another level to randomness. The randomness needs to mean something for me. To me barely succeeding or failing is more dramatic. Imagine you're the one running up the slippery hill. Your hands and feet are sinking in the mud as you push yourself onward. Just as you reach the top you feel your brother's hand clamp onto your ankle. That's more dramatic than you roll a 1 and fall face first into the mud and your brother is on you.

[@RdotDoyle]

I hear you. The goal is definitely to make the most dramatic beat. For me this idea can help that in some circumstances. But I don't default to a nat one being a slapsticky fumble, though I know a lot of tables do. You could have the brother catch his ankle on a 1, and you could have that happen on a 9 or a 19 depending on how you set the DC. It's all just different tools, or colors in your pallet.