This video implies that water quenching is bad, oil quenching is good-but that simply is not the case. Different compositions of steel perform best with water or brine, others are best with various types of oil. The temperature of the quench medium can make a difference as well. And, as others have pointed out, a quenched steel without tempering will be brittle, regardless of what medium it is quenched in.
@asepd71592 жыл бұрын
S2 steel screwdriver with brine can make rust? Which one better to hardness sir?
@samshanker57532 жыл бұрын
@@asepd7159 ?!
@fifi23o56 ай бұрын
Exactly. Depends on herdeneability. Šime are best quenched in water, some in oil, some even in the air. It just depends on material which metod is best for it.
@mostafajarideh4 ай бұрын
فولاد رو دوبار کوئنچ کنید شکننده میشود
@DemoniqueTranceКүн бұрын
What happens if you quench partially and let it air cool for the rest? I found I could get the material to crystallize differently depending on my timings.
@onebackzach4 жыл бұрын
You did a great job with the lighting, background, and filming. It was really interesting to see the forge scale flaking off and exposing the still glowing metal underneath
@jaxsullivan21173 жыл бұрын
Yes
@nabeelkhan33852 жыл бұрын
2Q
@derptothemaxclearly4 жыл бұрын
Any Sunday with a video from one of my favorite craftsmen, is a good Sunday.
@fourkings78974 жыл бұрын
If you don't temper after quenching, oil quench will also break easily..
@MV-bo1gv4 жыл бұрын
I agree...!
@shania-antonio64254 жыл бұрын
Yes all in all if warping or breaking isnt concerned then water quench is better.
@hardcase16594 жыл бұрын
@Richard Falch It's true but not critical.
@stlalways67154 жыл бұрын
Hard Case depends on the metal. There are metals that would be useless as a knife if you quench in oil because the edge would roll over with mild use. Tempering is needed for any Steel that isn’t made to either be soft or to break easily. This is why iron was worked by man longer than bronze but It was softer than bronze until they learned how to properly harden it without making it overly brittle.
@kristiankatic99654 жыл бұрын
@@stlalways6715 You need a TTT diagram (time-temperature-tranformation) for a given batch of material (yes, it's different for every batch, not just for every type of steel) and you need to choose a cooling speed between the upper critical and lower critical. Oil is slower cooling medium than water, so mr. Trollsky in this example probably didn't get a 100% Martensite structure (cooling speed less than lower critical speed) and there was less heat stress in the material so oil quenched specimen was not so brittle. A good rule of thumb is: construction steels with less than 0,8% of carbon are quenched in water, tool steels over 0,8% C are quenched in oil, high speed steels and highly alloyed tool steels are "quenched" in air.
@conradnudd73983 жыл бұрын
You didn’t test the blade after quench in oil.
@gottmituns3225 Жыл бұрын
This video ìt's completly USELESS, he only show how to dip a piece of red hot steel... ( if it is realy steel )😅 into water or cooking oil ( i do not think it's canola... Canadian Oil Low Acid )❗
@SEFullmetalJake4 жыл бұрын
Why didn’t you test the oil quenched knife the same as the water quenched. I’m sure it would have still snapped, just not quite as easily.
@5thhorseman5594 жыл бұрын
Zoom in on the skull quench and make that your badge!
@SEFullmetalJake4 жыл бұрын
5th Horseman it’s pretty cool :)
@zacharymacquiddy55314 жыл бұрын
I don’t think so. The oil is more viscous than the water so as the fluids heated up the convection currents in the oil were not able to move as quickly as those in the water. This prevents the cooler liquid from transferring heat out of the steel too quickly allowing it to become less brittle after the quench. Either way it should be tempered so it wouldn’t matter as much.
@SEFullmetalJake4 жыл бұрын
Shottygolfer1 It depends at what heat the steel was before quenching. steel will become brittle after a hardening quench regardless of what you use to quench anyway, the tempering cycle comes after. As to why I said he should have tested it. I know oil cools is slower, but what’s the result in it? He doesn’t compare. Usually people use it for a more controlled quench to stop warping
@diwanm20124 жыл бұрын
very good point made
@owenfisher49004 жыл бұрын
Absolutely stunned by the brittleness of that knife. Didn't realise when you quench the knife in water it makes that music!!! Blown away
@jeanladoire41414 жыл бұрын
The most violent quenching liquid is brine. If you agitate the steel, it dissipates the steam and the scale, so it cools even quicker
@emilmuhrman4 жыл бұрын
The fastest that I know of is water mixed with amonia.
@gforsyth44 жыл бұрын
This is why you’re my fav knife making channel on KZbin. 🙏🙏🙏
@juremalik98814 жыл бұрын
For hardening in water you need lower lemparatures than for oil because water takes heat away a lot faster than oil (as you said in the video). I usualy harden in almost boiling water so it doesn t cool the steel so fast. Also tempering to reduce the inner forces in the steel making it bend and break easily.
@Neonator08 Жыл бұрын
boiling water at 100C verses 21c is still a massive shock to a steel blade cooking around 870C and not an appreciable difference. There's a reason oil hardened steels are listed as oil hardened. If you could get water up to a higher temperature then it might help but water boils into a gas as we all know at 100c assuming standard air pressure. The issue is water's rapid ability to heat up and evaporate/boil off via convection currents etc and shed heat, causing the steel to be cooled at a much more rapid rate. Oil's heat up much slower than water and has an overall lower heat capacity. Heat transfers to the oil and is lost from the entire mixture at a much slower and more controlled rate. Hence why it is superior
@khoraizor8 ай бұрын
@@Neonator08 different steels need different quenchants. saying one is better than the other is idiocy.
@sheep1ewe4 жыл бұрын
This was actualy interesting, thank You for uploading. An expansion of this test could be how different dipping angles and moving around the object are affecting the outcome, many beginners does not know about that. I newer taught about how those different fluids are affecting the hardshells in such different ways. However, when i was on the axe factory here we used water, but it's much harder to master, for knives i also use oil if i hawe it at hand. (With water the tempering is very important to prevent what You are showing here as well as not owerheting and ruin the quenching duting the tempering process) I always do the finegrinding after the tempering (i always forge the blade a bit thicker than the final aim partly to prevent decarbonation but mainly to be able to correct warp) in order to correct fine warp, it seem to work as long as one are careful not to accidentaly build up heatstress in the steel after the tempering process. Easiest is actualy to use an dold watergrindstone since it does not risk owerheating the material as modern highspeed grinders.
@emilyscandycakes45304 жыл бұрын
Very nice. ...what steel was used?...why not temper each one and have the hardness tested...
@andyfleege85044 жыл бұрын
Thank you for taking the time to show us in a very clear visual way the "differences" in quench media. I'm know expert but, i work with metal a lot for income plus personal interests. There are reasons for both quenches! If you're willing, in the future you should a salt water quench too! That was crazy how differently the metals reacted! Good show! Thanks.
@Paul-dq8os3 жыл бұрын
This video is perfect to show people why using water isn't so great. Could not have asked for a better video man! I'll definitely keep this in my back pocket if I'm ever teaching someone how to get started! Thank you!
@TheWoodydrake4 жыл бұрын
I'm loving the new editing style and music. Really cool practical explanation of different quenching techniques and their down falls. Videography is advancing also, your killing it bud keep up the good work.
@jwdickinson6434 жыл бұрын
really cool videography! but, I have a question about the water quenching....could you have reduced the brittleness after quenching by tempering it? great video!
@ronaldcubero82684 жыл бұрын
All the hardened steel is like glass after quench it, that's the idea of make a quench, then you reduce the hardness and brittle by draw two tempers after quench, different steels, diferent quenchants, the low carbon steel can get better in water than oil, if you need a bainitic structure you quench in melted salts, what the mean of this video? Water quenching is wrong? Yeah, for some steels or too thin blades yes but is useful in many ways, sorry but the video lack of perspective and data.
@actually46604 жыл бұрын
You my man are a saviour. Appreciate the information 👍👍😁
@alexghebenei58503 жыл бұрын
Well in the first one its expected for it to break like that. Cuz if I got it right u kept "over cooking" it and cooling it down. But I think oil also helps with hardening? Or is it just coating it?
@anirudhsathe90453 жыл бұрын
Very well done with the procedure and the setup and everything and the music I might add
@jagodzik4 жыл бұрын
Co zrobiłeś z tym olejem? Passacik w TDI by na nim pojeździł jeszcze!
@Abyssaal14 жыл бұрын
Frytki zrobił.
@watkin77224 жыл бұрын
Zostawił do hartowania
@coolbitbmwretrofitgarage80333 жыл бұрын
@@Abyssaal1 no i smaku narobiłeś... Muszę teraz kartofle skrobać..
@soldiersofapocalypses.o.a.29353 жыл бұрын
I to są filmy warte obejrzenia, bez zbędnych cyrków, a konkretne ciekawostki.
@daw1624 жыл бұрын
I'd imagine the water quenched knife would be fine after tempering as long as it didn't crack. But the warp and the cracking risk is the rub. I've never found the need to use water (I use soy oil for thin water hardening steel items - it's cheap and it flows well, even if not preheated) in chasing hardness, but I have quenched in oil and broken a knife just the same way you showed with water (prior to tempering). I make only as a hobby, so I've not had to solve any warpage issues - i leave enough to grind them off post treatment, but it's a little limiting. Files and razors have always been straightened after a quench - both are water hardening steel most of the time, but I never paid attention to find out if they're tempered quickly and then straightened (I think that's the case). I attempted to tap a pocket knife blade that warped slightly years ago - a single light tap and it broke like glass (it was oil quenched, but made from 1095 - and not tempered).
@pacethink97703 жыл бұрын
Good to see u making videos again
@npknives75033 жыл бұрын
this was a cool experiment! Cool results nice video idea!
@ANXIETOR4 жыл бұрын
I was surprised at how brittle the steel became. Very interesting video.
@glenpaul3606 Жыл бұрын
Very good quality video and audio. Well done !
@justinwalker9233 жыл бұрын
Dude nice video. I like how you shown how brittle the steel gets. I've been making knives since I was 11 and I'm 30 so I know my stuff. This is a very good demonstration. Good job. I also cryogenic treat my blades as well.
@ChristopherSalisburySalz2 жыл бұрын
What steel were you using? That would make a difference. 1095 is fast quenching and if the blade doesn't crack or warp bad I would think a water quench would work fine.
@danielabell17413 жыл бұрын
first time somone showed the difference thanks dude
@Dominique_Oliveira4 жыл бұрын
Really was surprised how brittle became the steel quenched in water. Really nice little test. The thanks for the effort.
@killerkane19574 жыл бұрын
Well we knew this. BUT, seeing it is very interesting! You went to a lot of trouble and expense to do this for us. Thank You!
@levvy0014 жыл бұрын
Nice scientific approach. The video was actually very informative.
@AlanKidd4life3 жыл бұрын
Did you test the brittleness of the oil quench like you did the water quench? How brittle is the oil quenched blade?
@jpilgrim97224 жыл бұрын
I’m glad you are back thank you.
@ash96224 жыл бұрын
Oh! Useful technology with simple home features. it's interesting for learn, thanks.
@stefanrobinson29204 жыл бұрын
Thats pritty cool to see the action inside the quenching tank..thanks for taking the time to do..well interesting for me a novice blade maker..thankyou
@garethbaus54714 жыл бұрын
In my experience steel is brittle when I quench regardless of whether I use oil or water, so long as I don't have any cracks the results are fairly similar after I temper the blade.
@cavscout8882 жыл бұрын
Some steels require oil, so if you don't know what metal you have for absolute certain, use oil. Also, he did get some warping supposedly from quenching in water.
@garethbaus54712 жыл бұрын
@@cavscout888 the oil quenching steels are just more prone to cracking, it is still sometimes possible to get a good result with water.
@cavscout8882 жыл бұрын
@@garethbaus5471 Do you want to spend potentially hours or days on a part, just to ruin it from quenching in water? Again, some steels actually REQUIRE oil. No option. Some will be fine enough with either. None that I know of require water quenching...
@MechaHolic3 жыл бұрын
It was very good information and thank you so much for sharing
@PINACI11 ай бұрын
So why didn't you snap the oil quenched knife in the vice when it was brittle like the water quenched knife ? maybe temper both knives and then test them both for a fair test.
@dennisobrien36184 жыл бұрын
Interesting to watch. Nice camera work. I always enjoy the short video showing a katana blade deflect one way, then the other, during a water quench. It's amazing they don't just snap in half every time. I found it under the title "Templado de una katana - Detalle de la deformacion" on a channel called "supervideo". I don't know how to link to it, but it's only 11 seconds long with no music, narration, or text.
@kodefashmodefa3 жыл бұрын
I don’t a thing about quenching or anything with heat treating, but does the metal orientation during the quench matter? Is there a difference if it’s held edge pointed down vs broad side down?
@RonRay4 жыл бұрын
The water appeared to give a secondary "explosive" heat release. This might be why the steel is more brittle with a water quince. As far as I know, you are the first to show this reaction. 👍
@Olasty1114 жыл бұрын
if you drop the metal temperature below its critical value quick enough, during quenching, austenit (microstructure of iron) will directly transform into martensite structure with is very brittle. Its linked with shearing iron atoms without diffusion. Oil absorb heat slower so probably there is more residual austenite or even different structure like bainite with is more ductile.
@tonyhemingway79804 жыл бұрын
@@Olasty111 Isn't there, also, a different reaction from the oil due to it being carbon based? Water is hydrogen and oxygen so there would be no carbonation to the steel.
@AlanMolstad4 жыл бұрын
Ron, I also noticed that 2nd wave of bubbles. Why is that going on?
@ShelleyRaskin4 жыл бұрын
Awesome, do you not heat your oil before quench?
@jimk85204 жыл бұрын
It was interesting to see the quench in water. Was that carbon sweating out of the metal and settling on the tank bottom? I didn’t see that effect when quenched in the oil and perhaps thats why it’s brittle?
@RedBeardOps4 жыл бұрын
Very neat sir! Thank you!
@cocospops93514 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Trollskyy. Very coolski!
@BeefaloBart4 жыл бұрын
Awesome video on this topic. I thank you so very much for the time and effort to setup that tank. The lighting was perfect and was kind of satisfying to watch. As always I am impressed with your work and thankful to have found this channel.
@aitf994 жыл бұрын
Excellent !!! Youre one of my favorite knife makers....
@Trollsky4 жыл бұрын
thanks mate !
@racfar14 жыл бұрын
Hello my friend. What was the steel that you used in the test with water? 1080?
@ScoutsIX34 жыл бұрын
This was such an awesome idea!!! I loved getting to see the process up close!
@neonshoji4 жыл бұрын
Great video. People need to see this.
@OuttheCave4 жыл бұрын
Don't put the fishes in the oil !! Haha! Very informative to be able to view that and also a good visual show! Even my girlfriend watched it twice! Thank you so much Trollskyy for taking the time to do this video!! Cheers!
@gregsullivan89564 жыл бұрын
If you put fishes heat the oil to 350 F then tasty fishes
@eicdesigner4 жыл бұрын
I have always wanted to see this comparison! Thanks for posting this!!
@teodorstiernholm4 жыл бұрын
Your videos inspire me a lot! You're a really good knife maker!
@krzysiuzbysiu35554 жыл бұрын
Piękne. Człowiek się uczy całe życie. Dzięki :)
@gregmundo61073 жыл бұрын
Great experiment, good job
@rickratcliff62314 жыл бұрын
I enjoyed that. Loved the skull rings👍🏻
@Trollsky4 жыл бұрын
"shiny and chrome ! "
@themodernadventurer43204 жыл бұрын
Very awesome video, learned this the hard way with my first knifes. Days of work completely ruined! Hope someone learns the easy way from this video.
@egoleathergoodsnc47704 жыл бұрын
was there a temper after? i know japanese swords are water quenched for the curve on a katana but its reheated
@lalfahualngo90104 жыл бұрын
So, which is the better one?
@nreyes9353 жыл бұрын
Trolsky!!! Your the best!!
@mangalhomeservice66863 жыл бұрын
What is the better water and oil
@christopherskipp15254 жыл бұрын
Very interesting comparison; can you still cook with the oil?
@RPG_Powerlift3 жыл бұрын
A normalnie można tak hartować w kujawskim czy są specjalne oleje do hartowania ?
@rafaklucz5081 Жыл бұрын
Super pokazane różnice. Powodzenia w dalszych pracach i filmikach 💪💪 Pozdro ✌
@filipderek39624 жыл бұрын
kolejna lekcja od czarodzieja a nie fałszywego proroka co dorabia rączki do mory. czekamy na kolejne experymenty
@rajavelpandian3973 жыл бұрын
Which one is good brother
@hendrikriedstra78574 жыл бұрын
Great video. Interesting result. Thumbs UP.
@randyc56504 жыл бұрын
Glad to see you again.
@whiteboar32324 жыл бұрын
I knew that quenching in water is too fast, but I didn't expect that steel would become so brittle, very impressing!
@croisetguillaume22234 жыл бұрын
only depend of the steel, some cant be quench in water, other need to be.
@whiteboar32324 жыл бұрын
@@croisetguillaume2223 Yes indeed. Some others are quenched in air. I was talking about regular high carbon steel.
@miketausig42054 жыл бұрын
White Boar some high carbon steel CAN be done in water or air. It’s all about the alloy that will tell you what medium a quench must be in.
@jiriskala4 жыл бұрын
Interesting video and very well executed. I appreciate the effort you put in the filming setup - lights, white background, slow motion.
@JENNERAL_KILLER_URU_MAFIA4 жыл бұрын
thanks man i learned something new for life
@Ziemof4 жыл бұрын
Trollsky jestes najlepszy !
@brendanesposito4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for doing what I’ve always wanted to do myself. These are a great set of observations to study and draw information from...👍
@zeuso.19474 жыл бұрын
Ummm yeah, that's why it's tempered after it's quenched.
@cster92613 жыл бұрын
That is true but sometimes it cracks when you quench it in water
@18IMAMGODINA2 жыл бұрын
@@cster9261 that's true too , but it doesn't do it because of water , it does it because of hundreds of different minute details like what sort of steel it is , does the piece of steel have micro fractures , have you done normalizing cycles right , how thin /thick it is , is there a stress point and so on and so forth , if done right it's not gonna crack but you never know it just might.
@cster92612 жыл бұрын
@@18IMAMGODINA I guess I should probably just know what steel I’m quenching but I never really know what steel I’m using because I always use reclaimed metal but you are very right .
@KennyMcKornick4 жыл бұрын
Drogi Trollsky. Bardzo bym prosil rowniez o polska wersje tytułu i przynajmniej polskie napisy jesli juz mowisz po angielsku. Odnosnie Twojej pracy.. co tu duzo mowic. Swietna robota, bije poklony!
@aukelewainit3701 Жыл бұрын
I came from a video of Capini’s description of beating the mongols. And he said they needed their arrow heads quenched in salt water. I’m no blacksmith but I’m curious if the salt water actually does anything?
@TheCrewLT4 жыл бұрын
Cool visualization
@Baneironhand4 жыл бұрын
Can see why you would get weird stresses on the water quench. The little pockets of "air" stuck to the blade look like they took noticeably longer to cool down on several of the water quenched blades.
@Spiralem3 жыл бұрын
Shouldn't the blade be tempered first? Have you tested the hardness of the blade that is quenched in oil vs water?
@GergC05214 жыл бұрын
Didn't expect all that scale to fall off. wow. Have you tried "Superquench"? Homemade brew of water, salt and soap?
@jolly53193 жыл бұрын
this is way too cool to be missed on 360p
@ChristopherSalisburySalz2 жыл бұрын
Of course it breaks after the quench. All knives are pretty brittle after a quinch aren't they? I would love to see the results of the water quench after the blade was tempered to soften it a bit.
@이광섭-y7i4 жыл бұрын
Would you tell me what kind of oil did you use?
@paulsherman78024 жыл бұрын
Weren't both quenches supposed to be heated to 150-200 degrees? Would that have made a difference?
@Charles-jf8nz11 ай бұрын
But once you temper the blade's treated with water wouldn't they still be good?
@cichy007113 жыл бұрын
Dlaczego olej roslinny a nie samochodowy?
@miguelpimentel85394 жыл бұрын
Really great lesson try heating your oil before you quench your blank
@VetusVindex4 жыл бұрын
Michał a wogóle rozgrzewałeś olej to po bożemu do tych 60-70 stopni c ?? Bo teoretycznie to tez miałoby jeszcze znaczenie :)
@krzysztof181994 жыл бұрын
No ale jakie wnioski ? Po wodzie nóż był kruchy , a po oleju ?
@lorennettec.pordaliza33413 жыл бұрын
What's that black material that took off from the knife?
@lukaszlukasz14674 жыл бұрын
To był olej spożywczy? Czy musi być mechaniczny?
@rafalskolasinski84824 жыл бұрын
What music did you use in the video? It is pretty cool!
@sandorimecs79054 жыл бұрын
Wow! Very good idea!
@obaidurrahman24053 жыл бұрын
Can I use Old Drained Mobil Oil to quench instead of Sunflower oil???
@hassanbazzi35453 жыл бұрын
Very interesting. Thank you for sharing
@ivantocao62144 жыл бұрын
Have you tried engine oil or radiator coolant? Will there be any effect on same steel?
@Trollsky4 жыл бұрын
enging oil smoke is a very unhealthy solution. this smoke kills
@KhalainBear3 жыл бұрын
Havnt watched this guys video's in a while glad i stumbled across him again, subscribed, his english has gotten better i used to love the way he said he had to " greened the beevils" XD
@billhatcher29844 жыл бұрын
That was cool . In the last picture what do you call the symbol that was bottom right in the picture
@karolwlad764 жыл бұрын
Ciekawy filmik. Szkoda, że nie pokazałeś jak zachowuje się stal hartowana w oleju. Zabrakło tego jako podsumowanie całości testu. Czy ta stal pękająca była po odpuszczeniu ?