Steel's First Look - 1974 Porsche RSR 3.0 & Salvador Street Circuit - Automobilista 2

[@Copef1]

I watched the Patrick Long video that you linked to. It looks like Reiza hit the handling dead on. Everything Patrick was having to do in the video to keep control, was what I experienced trying to thrash this Porsche around Kyalami historic. Its a fun car. Its rewarding to drive. You definitely have to wait on it, especially getting off corners. Too soon on the throttle and it shoves the nose to the outside of the track. It also benefits greatly from some setup work. All in all a fantastic addition in my estimation. I had a really fun race with it at Kyalami.

[@RevRideReason]

oh I can't wait to get my hands on this beauty after work. I love driving cars where "Soft touch skills" as you mentioned are needed. It's alive ☝👍

[@splatracer7726]

I've been looking forward to this car. I'm going to hit those period 70s tracks with it immediately.

[@Steelcast27]

You’re going to like it. Remember, Patience!

[@OhItsThat]

What I’m really excited about is I saw a 70s Stingray Corvette in a AMS2 screen shot yesterday. Stuff like that never makes it into sim racing unless it’s a crappy mod in AC. Bring that on tenfold. These kinds of cars need to become the new standard of Simracing for a couple of years.

[@Steelcast27]

Steep learning curve, for me at least, but yeah. These cars will bring some great close racing for sure.

[@THENEMESIS69]

Ohhh she’s a beauty 🤩

[@irijgillman1815]

Very challenging and very rewarding car if one is persistent. Great adition to AMS2

[@MetalgearLuke]

ah the old porsches, i love them! firing the game up right now!

[@FootRock1]

Great content Steel. Your comments are spot on. She's a real beast that needs patience and a gentle touch. Much like some girls I have known.

[@Steelcast27]

Thanks for taking a moment to comment. Means more than you know. Much appreciated!

[@billyblazevirtualmotorspor2266]

Build incoming?!? Yessss!!!

[@focussimulation7186]

Really great and enjoyable video. Real professional and well done, so much so...i want more = subbed. Thanks man

[@Steelcast27]

I appreciate the support! Do you have a favorite car I can do a build for?

[@focussimulation7186]

Do your favourite, that would be good to see and you can have even more fun doing It! Cheers

[@menacegtr]

So glad you mentioned a build coming for this car, like you wouldn't. I have been messing with the suspension stiffness and ARB, will be great to see how you have tuned the Porsche to kinda play nice, not to nice though👍

[@Steelcast27]

Of course. Think slide > wobble. But you’re on the right track yourself!

[@aubreycolemanracing]

Man this car is a monster to control, it's so punishing! Still lot's of fun, great vid BTW!

[@Steelcast27]

Soft touch skills. get better at this car you’ll be better in all others. My build will smooth it a bit, but yeah. It took me 3 nights to come to terms with it.

[@TheKwod]

Still kangaroo physics?

[@aubreycolemanracing]

@@TheKwod didn't really have the bounce problem the gt3 porsch had, just handles quite badly, compared to what it should be.

[@Steelcast27]

@@aubreycolemanracing wait for the update.

[@TheKwod]

@@aubreycolemanracing ok, dling now. Thx.

[@enricomazzarellosimracing6502]

Did made a tune to this car, before you made this video ? I tried it yesterday, and it was " pain in the ass ", feel rear tyres like they are "glued" on the ground 😮

[@Steelcast27]

For this video, no. But its also seen a lot of updates. Try my build in a separate video.

[@Steelcast27]

Beware of the Cotton Store Porsche!!!

[@Braindown73]

Great video. The car reminds me of an ex-girlfriend - most of the time it bubbles along nicely, but out of nowhere it can become moody and temperamental, often punishing you severely for the smallest of indiscretions, the absolute cow.

[@jelly8594]

😂😂😂

[@od13166]

hope they dials that bouncy effect some car noticed driving same car in ACC VS AMS2 911 GT3 ACC in straght wasnt bouncy compared AMS2

[@Steelcast27]

Yeah, there is some insufficient damping issues especially with mid-rear engine vehicles. They cars not reaching critical damping back there. You can tune some of it out. My hunch is the baseline damper transition speeds are too low and we can't adjust that. YET (crossing fingers).

[@od13166]

@@Steelcast27 how about Front mounted Engine cars usually?

[@Steelcast27]

probably effects them too, but what im talking about is from a suspension perspective, if you are talking about the visual effect of the front of the chassis moving at speed, that is also UI dependent. It certainly shouldn;t be smooth as butter. but AMS2 is a lot more active. Im used to it though, but thats just me.

[@deltaviking]

I think Reiza needs to step up and bring Ferrari and Lambo to the party, if not its like playing FIFA without Italy or Barcelona teams!

[@Steelcast27]

A matter if time and $. They have a lot of licenses to obtain…

[@captnslo408]

Looks like the RSR passes the burn out test.

[@Steelcast27]

Yes indeed Cap.

[@mrh8984]

Awesome. What is that track at 7:16mins?

[@Steelcast27]

Hey there. Thats historic Kyalami.

[@mrh8984]

@@Steelcast27 thanks man. It's definitely has the historic vibes going on. I love that about this game. I've just recently purchased it along with the full season pass 2020-2022. I figure it's an investment towards those guys to keep going. I've just come across your channel and for the last week it's all I'm watching while working. Great vids man, I'm getting an education. Thanks a bunch.

[@MoonieGTRacer]

👀

[@_xndrzt]

looks like you use very little steering angle.

[@Steelcast27]

I do indeed. Probably due to my F1 20XX days. Its just personal preference though.

[@luclorencini]

If Reiza is gonna refurbish some AMS1 tracks, better be a proper race track like Buenos Aires, and not this forgotten street circuit that held only three races and never return to Stock Car calendar again

[@Steelcast27]

I think BA is in the works too.

[@ArchOfficial]

Seems to drive extremely strangely, some doubt about the vehicle model accuracy. Same could be said for a lot of AMS2 cars to be honest. I'm not 100% sure, but these cars are definitely not "soft". Ride frequencies approach 5hz from what I can tell and the stabilizers are very stiff, not much softer than modern ones, at least if calculations are to be trusted. Yes, I did take into account installation stiffness and so on; but no I haven't measured the rate from one myself. Take it for what it is. Stiffness wise it's almost as stiff as modern GT cars unless my info is just bad. I'm not sure if this is represented in AMS2; sure isn't represented in Assetto Corsa. Consumer simulation developers, being just game devs and not really engineers or experts, typically far underestimate just how stiff these period touring cars were. Of course in the lower series the cars were much closer to the roadgoing variant and not as excessively stiff, but they also didn't drive on tires which reward that stiffness and I don't think they were typically stiffened as much chassis-wise that'd allow them to support the springrates. Open wheel car chassis especially were very flexy in the 60's and 70's and I've come to the conclusion that they were typically a good bit softer than equivalent touring cars, so maybe the misunderstanding comes from looking at those cars. Probably for a realistic setup you will need to go max front bar, minimum rear bar and as stiff as possible on the corner springs but I have a doubt if even that will be enough. If the tire is unreasonable then there is nothing that can really be done.

[@Steelcast27]

The pitch and roll gradient for the RSR is more than double that of a modern GT3. And interviews of era drivers confirm that the RSR was indeed a soft build. They also have 1/3rd of the spring stiffness of a modern GT3. In ASM2 it definitely favors the stiffer side of the setup screen though. I can't pin down modeling inaccuracies. Perhaps it could be rear center of gravity, because that's something of a mystery, i'd imagine, or at least harder to obtain detailed information. The Roll center is probably easy enough to determine if you know the suspension geometry. Reiza has it tough, because I'm sure they have many more car modeling params that they simply don't have the information, and since they are not "fudging" drivability into the cars, it translates to the end user as a problem with the physics, when it is but its also not. Also the default damping packages are really not balanced in many cars. I prefer a balanced damper package and then tune for particular corners or tracks (or cars), but the default damping package kind of pigeon holes the build by introducing general characteristics that I would prefer to tune using stiffness distribution and *then* dampers.

[@ArchOfficial]

@@Steelcast27 Really? What springrates did they run in the coil springs? The homologated RSR cars definitely are soft, but all the info I have for the RSR 3.0 for the 1974 year pins it down to being very stiff. However that's not as reliable info as a factory manual or something would be; mostly just loose posts by individuals. Remember that the corner torsion bars in the homologation cars were not carried over to the Group 4 cars for the year 1974. If you do actually know the values I'd really love to hear them and a source. Stabilizer stiffness wise, I've seen lower values on modern GT3 cars, particularly in the rear. The front is a pretty typical 100,000 N/m~ wheelrate and the rear a whopping 50,000 N/m~ wheelrate at the stiffest settings. At the farthest swing arm length, they come out to about 40% stiffness for me. Some GT3 rears stabilizers today are still softer than that. But hey, I didn't measure the wheelrates from a real historic item so it could be all wrong, but that's what I get from calculating values from reproduction parts. And remember, these are wheelrates after motion ratio and after installation stiffness. The installation stiffness assumed is some 10x lower than a typical modern GT or P front-end setup, by the way. I believe dampers were quite free at the time, but all of the mentions for Bilstein damper specs I saw points towards the stiff rates I was talking about unless we are to assume they all ran on very overdamped setups. I don't know if they even had an adjustable damper or just multiple fixed dampers which they swapped out; Group A in the 90's did the latter while I believe some DTM cars actually used adjustable units. Keep in mind this is the 70's so it might just be a few unadjustable dampers that they swap in = precision tuning not possible. The CG is 0.43~ with fuel and I believe also a typical driver. It's a lot more forward than a typical period 911. To be fair on Reiza, developing consumer simulation cars doesn't afford one enough payoff and resources to make an accurate simulation model of a car; and it's challenging enough for a modern car which you might have data for. Ten times as challenging for a period car like this of which limited data still exists (and a myriad of homologated parts were available further complicating matters) and which ran on tires that don't exist and can't be reproduced today ie: telemetry correlation is impossible even if you would get a car in your hands.

[@Steelcast27]

@@ArchOfficial Interesting. I can't say im familiar with what the actual cars ran as far as spring stiffness is concerned, but in game the spring rates for a modern GT3 are easily 200-300+ N/m and the 74 RSR is 90 N/m or less, it also weighs half as much though. Not to mention the added sway bar roll stiffness. The reason I say there could be a roll center/ CoG issue is the rear tends to wander a bit even with a soft (grippier?) rear suspension. This is largely resolved with a stiffer suspension. Too stiff and it wanders too, so it has to be the right balance. Good news is you can find that balance with the setups in game. But yeah, they are tinkering. I had a great V8 supercar build there stiffness sorted the wandering, but then I revisited it last night and it wandered again, so I softened the rear a touch and wa laa.

[@ArchOfficial]

@@Steelcast27 It could be a case of just bad setup, really. Big rear tire + a bit of rear ride frequency bias is what seemed to be good in these cars. Definitely not front ride frequency stiffness. You end up with that in sims when you underestimate the tire longitudinal grip and especially the combined grip. I don't even know if AMS2 has combined grip for tires.

[@Steelcast27]

@@ArchOfficial honeslty, ams2's issue isn't just that the defaults aren't good, some are some aren't, but with the tire model and track variances, its almost impossible without making setup trades that break one track in favor of another. track specific is the way to go...all the way. the game is too complicated and too varied.