Machining tapered gibs

Showing my process of machining a tapered gib from scratch.
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gtwr.de/
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[@BravoCharleses]

My favorite part of all of your videos is to be able to look over the shoulder of an experienced professional machinist and see how he thinks about problems. I cannot speak highly enough about your description of holding the taper blank. So much insight. Thank you for these videos.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Thanks a lot!

[@scootertramp4355]

Agreed. Stefan takes the time to explain why some things work so much better than others, like the zig zag oil ways. It makes sense when you think about it but it is not always apparent.

[@barrystevens2780]

Your experience shows well. I was once told about the levels of training available for trades in Germany. In the US many years ago, the apprentice machinist program was dropped.

[@OldIronShops]

Feel free to go into the excruciating details. That's why we come to watch you ;)

[@EdgePrecision]

Great video Stefan! Your cutting tool can also add or put stress back into a perfectly stress free material. In fact probably most of the stress you encounter in machining is probably caused by what you do. Not actually in the material in the first place. I have seen this quite often when facing thin-ish material with inserted face mills. The part will bow up into the tool. The inserts are expanding the face of the material. It is actually better to face such parts with a smaller diameter and freer cutting tool/endmill with more passes. It will tend to put less stress into the part.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Fully agree! We rarely use inserted tooling in our VMC when machining parts for tool/die and moldwork. Facing is usualy done with a good 16 or 20mm finishing endmill. Grinding can also put quite a bit of stress back in material, especially when the wheel is not cutting free.

[@EdgePrecision]

@chris0tube There is indeed stress in materials depending on the way they were manufactured. This will be released when material is removed. What I am talking about is. Every cutting tool induces stress back into the material. Depending on the tool some more than others. Although coolant and the bluntness of the cutting edge do play some part. This isn't the whole story. Every tool pushes some metal back into the cut thus creating a compression in the surface of the cut. As Stefan indicates even a dull grinding wheel will do this. Here is where coolant or the lack of it will even exaggerate this because heat also expands the same surface being cut. You can see a similar effect in a sand blaster. take a piece of sheet metal and blast one side. It will bow the sheet toward the side that's blasted. Or I have seen shafts straightened by peeing with a hammer on the surface. This is the same effect that the cutting tool has when it cuts. The more negative rake or lack of a keen edge the tool has the more it will push metal into the surface its cutting. This is also why ever tool leaves a burr on the edges of its cut.

[@1ginner1]

In my youth, I watched a film about "weathering" of castings, I think it was by the Colchester lathe company, and the point is, that they left their lathe bed castings out in the open, in wind, rain, frost and snow for a couple of years to let them find their optimum stress relieved position. They then rough machined the casting and left it AGAIN, before finish machining. That is probably why a lot of their machine tools are still in use today, and are still as accurate as they were when new. As has been stated any machining will impart stress , but with careful tool selection the stresses imparted can be minimised and a fine machine tool, well maintained, can last a very long time.

[@magnusklahr8190]

Stefan Gotteswinter is it because of this most machine tables are planed instred of milled?

[@zHxIxPxPxIxEz]

@@EdgePrecision that why lapping is soo cool! Almost 0 force

[@notoioudmanboy]

These videos bring a kind of rational order to the chaos of the world. So much order. Very precision.

[@normanfeinberg9968]

Well ,a lot of wisdom here.No nonsense no promises.Just straight talk about how things work.Thats why I like your channel.I'm 75 years old and have listened to a lot of bullshit and produced some myself and have found it goes nowhere.Keep doin the "Hard stuff"Thank's

[@stumccabe]

666 degrees C - the temperature of the beast.

[@acdcaaron23]

6, 6-6, the heat of the treat!

[@artmckay6704]

I didn't think anyone could make 35 minutes of gibs interesting but you did it! Very interesting and informative. I especially liked the info about oil grooves. Thank you for spending your private time educating us! Very kind of you! I look forward to more! :)

[@adamwisialowski2003]

Very skilled professional at work. Your videos are an absolute joy to watch and learn from.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Thank you!

[@outputcoupler7819]

For those curious, the potential error when measuring a tapered surface with calipers like that is proportional to the tangent and/or cosine of the taper angle, depending on what sort of errors you make. If you accidentally hold the calipers flush against the tapered surface instead of the flat surface, your calipers will read high by (1/cos(angle) - 1)%. If you hold your calipers correctly but do not place them in the correct location as Stefan showed, then your measurement will differ by the tangent of the angle multiplied by the distance shifted. If you have a 5 degree taper and the true measurement is 5 millimeters, then holding the calipers wrong will result in a 5.019 mm reading. Shifting the calipers 1 mm to the high side will give you 5.087 mm. Doing both will produce a reading of 5.10 mm. Assuming I didn't flub the math, of course.

[@alexwood020589]

23:07 "the wrong one on the right and the right one on the left" love it 😂

[@bobuk5722]

There's SO much extra packed into your video's Stefan. Machining hints and tips, useful jigs and even hints about how to relax ..... not to mention advice on not stealing - at least not stealing parallels. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. BobUK.

[@JohnBare747]

Groovy video Stefan! Thanks for the oil grove tutorial quiet informative and useful.

[@davidewing9088]

thank you, I particularly enjoyed your discussion on why you use only one reference surface and explained the detail in CAD.

[@paulraterink6378]

Really appreciate all the detail and explanation on how something should be done and why. Every video helps make me a better machinist. Thank you for sharing your knowledge so selflessly.

[@mpetersen6]

Back in the day (lord I sound OLD) we had a set of master tapers we would use to make Tapered Gibs. These were in a variety of tapers. .250 per foot etc. To rough machine the gib we would do the work on the shaper. Finish work was usually surface ground and then scraped. The only problem with scraping ground surfaces is unless you have a very sharp scraper it is hard to get the initial scraping passes to grab the surface. The scraper wants to just skip over the surface. The worst part was when we had to make gibs out of Ampco (Aluminum Bronze). If you weren't careful about heating the work everything would be find and then suddenly, BOING!, you'd have a bend.

[@stanervin6108]

mpetersen6: Same, but used to diamond lap @ 1200 on first finish pass and 2000 grit on the final finish pass. Sent off for final scraping though.

[@bostedtap8399]

Aluminium Bronze is indeed a pain to scrape, I used to scrape Copper as well, blunts high speed steel very quickly, mainly due to chemical reaction.

[@tobyw9573]

They say that confession is good for the soul, thanks for sharing three of your many vises. :)

[@cliffordarrow6557]

Crisp, thorough walkthrough from start to finish. Very cool to watch.

[@Throughthebulkhead]

Excellent work. You took the fear factor away!

[@MegaCountach]

Great information Stephan, thanks for your time & knowledge. Cheers, Doug

[@barrystevens2780]

Verifying oil grooves. In my past dealing with high rpm gearbox shafts using 3 part tilt pad bearings required 15 degree chanfer that allowed lubrication oil to enter the leading edge of bearing shoe contact areas. Shaft speeds were beyond the capability of ball bearings.

[@stumccabe]

Thanks for another excellent and interesting video Stefan.

[@outsidescrewball]

really enjoyed, thank you for your time in filming and producing this video....LOTS of lessons

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Thanks Chuck!

[@Rustinox]

Ok, i will not steal parallels. I promise. Nice video, Stefan. I enjoyed.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Good live decision! Thanks for watching :)

[@doubledarefan]

Stolen parallels are unreliable anyway.

[@ElectricGears]

Another way of holding tapered parts is to make one extra sacrificial tapered part and super glue it in the opposite direction to the one you want to machine. That way the combined pieces can fit in the parallel jaws of a normal vise.

[@bostedtap8399]

Excellent set-up with the double matched vice, like the idea of the ability to stagger them. May I ask would fitting the magnetic chuck from the surface grinder on the milling machine be a solution, if you have the Z height capacity?. Wunderbar, as normal. Thanks for sharing and best regards from the UK.

[@bhein67]

your thought process for holding your work is simply amazing. I enjoy watching you work!

[@boboldfield8571]

I just love your presentations, you have an excellent teaching manner that is very agreable, thanks from Australia

[@EngineersWorkshop]

Love your method to hold the tapered parts. When I worked for Reynolds, the toolroom would measure tapers with gage pins on the top surface, fixed at a known distance apart. Subtract the diameter of the pin.

[@SamEEE12]

Thanks Stefan, always good to learn something different. I think I now know what a gib actually does in a machine tool now! I work in another field, but always nice to learn from other trades. Thanks for taking the time to share your work!

[@alexmclennan3011]

Stefan, you are a gifted teacher.

[@bcbloc02]

Wouldn't it have been better to have had more z's in your oil groove so that the direction of travel tended to shear up the oil in more places? Right now your oil groove runs only slightly off the axis of motion. Maybe I am just over thinking because I am used to working with machines with meters of travel not millimeters.

[@GoCreatehms]

Another fantastic video, once again I learn something I can apply in my own workshop, much appreciated, thanks.

[@Gottenhimfella]

I find that quite a good way to hold rough sawn stock in a machine vice is with thin lead sheets between the jaws and the cut faces. For rougher workpieces the lead can be folded (by hand) in places where it needs to be thicker. If a thicker rectangular block is needed it's a simple matter of creating a 'Swiss Roll" and then squashing it flat.

[@jaywilliams8882]

a couple ideas for measuring that taper. 1: use an indicator to measure the rise over run of the part. I've had good experiences with this method. 2: use a ball between your anvil on the micrometer and the part. This has also served me well in the past.

[@OldtimeIronman]

Yay!!! Another Stefan video!! I still learn something every time

[@dannapert4199]

Not sure if it hits everyone the same, but, your jokes get me everytime!

[@aytonbob]

Are these nude virgins rare now lol

[@byron3784]

Thanks, I always enjoy watching and listening to your videos. Nice work holding setup.

[@warrenjones744]

Nicely presented Stefan. It is a fairly involved process to build gibs. Your description of the geometry was very clear. I like the set up you devised to cut the bevels. Some day I need to get a tilty table. (and of course scrape it!)

[@PeregrineBF]

To be pedantic: it's trivially possible to remove all stress from a material: just make sure it's not a solid. Liquids, gases, and plasmas inherently have no stress. Not sure about more exotic forms of matter, but if you turn it into degenerate matter to find out you'll win at least a Nobel prize!

[@StefanGotteswinter]

If you can get a plasma-gib to work at normal room conditions, the nobelprize will probably be the least they should give you ;)

[@PeregrineBF]

@@StefanGotteswinter I never said it would be useful! Stress-free, yes. Useful, not so much.

[@andrewrobb633]

Hi Stefan, Thanks for giving us your time. Great video as usual. It would be great if you did a follow up video on scraping in gibs.

[@johng7521]

Stefan , interesting video , thanks . Tip . to check a taper , a micrometer ball attachment can be put on a micrometer. will not give a perfect reading but way better than two flat surfaces . hope this helps. John

[@Paremo_]

It actually takes ~1020 kg rather than 981 kg to produce 10 kN on earth; the 9.81 m/s² is "applied the other way around". That's a technical term.

[@alanpartridge2140]

Technically one is a force the other is a mass, with weight being a force. But this is being overly pedantic, everybody would understand regardless

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Urgs! You are right!

[@TomMakeHere]

Ah just talk to a structural engineer 1 t = 10 kN. Because lazyness

[@johncarey9149]

Just a thought, but when you were mic-ing the tapered gibs, is there any reason why you couldn't have achieved a repeatable result by using a thread micrometer? Hopefully that's not a stupid question, as precision machining is all pretty new to me ... :-)

[@pgs8597]

G’day Stefan excellent video as always, very much appreciated. Cheers Peter

[@petergregory5286]

Got to admit, we get a kick out of excruciating. Well explained as always. Regards

[@than_vg]

many thanks for showing all this Stefan

[@666gwp]

Brilliant video on complicated topic , well done, thanks for posting 👍

[@garyc5483]

Great job & an excellent video Stefan. regards from the UK

[@TinkerInTheShop]

Great info. I need to mill some oil grooves into my lathe cross slide as there is no oil nipple/system in place. (Other than trying to squirt oil up from underneath which doesn't work well) So it looks like I'll be making a custom cutter for that!

[@doriancharles608]

Will always remain a student to your methods, always amazed enjoyed !!! Much thanks!!!

[@Conno9220]

So, who makes a oil groove cutting endmill? I was going to use a ball endmill.. but, after seeing this.. I think I'll pick up the correct endmill.

[@Cpl.Cadaver]

Question about workholding: Do you place the hypotenuse or the adjacent side of the gib flat against the first paralell?

[@bobshepherd9353]

work holding at its best, what a good solution well done

[@vendter]

To round out the edges of your oil grove, couldn't you just use a larger ball end mill and go over it again at just enough depth to round off the corners? It would look the same as using a round carbide blank as a scraper.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Yes! Absolutely.

[@sheep1ewe]

Another great video! Thank You for continuing this work!

[@iteerrex8166]

Stefan, your commentary is always very precise, there was no need for the drawings and the visual aids. As machining itself adds stress to a part.. would you do a video on the basic techniques of high precision machining? Thank you!

[@iteerrex8166]

Or maybe every situation requires its own special care. By the way If I ask a noob question don't hesitate to tell me lol

[@fraggler12]

Great video Stefan! I learn new stuff every time.

[@SpencerWebb]

Excellent teaching, Stefan! Thank you.

[@anmafab]

This is fascinating and after seeing the gibs on my equiv mill I would love to do some workon them

[@yohoyoho13]

I understand how using the reference surface and flipping the clamping set up avoids the compound angle (that you showed with the CAD demonstration), But why not mill the dovetails before milling/grinding the bevel? I'm not a machinist so please excuse my ignorance.

[@geirtoresimonsen8729]

Wouldn't you ideally want to cut the oil grooves after the gib was fitted to the mating surfaces by scraping? Both to ensure correct positioning of the grooves, and to have less edges to worry about when scraping. Or would the risk of it warping during cutting the grooves outweigh this? I'm assuming the machine is quite worn since it needed new gibs, and that the original positioning of the hole and grooves could be significantly off.

[@CatNolara]

For oil grooves, how about using a ball endmill and not plunging it in the full radius? That way the angle on the edges would be more shallow. Then maybe grind or scrape away the residual edge and it should be good.

[@blakewerner4368]

thank you sir. there is some really good stuff to digest here.

[@samcoote9653]

Thankyou for your wisdom as always Stefan, loved the video :)

[@mickyc4003]

Stefan could you hold the gibs using a regular setup in the vice and simply rotate one gib in the opposite directions so that the 2 gibs combined cancel the taper out and then just set the vice to the desired offset? Great video as always!

[@raymondmarteene7047]

Thanks Stefan, Are there micrometers that have double ball anvils? Thanks for sharing, enjoyed. Cheers

[@symlink1655]

I was wondering sir, would a "blade micrometer" be slightly better to measure the taper? It seems like it would alleviate the problem of having to put the "edge" of the round micrometer right on the mark.

[@davidl.579]

Ball attachments work well

[@OstapHelDesigns]

Excellent as always! Its really hard to focus on work when you have new SG video waiting for you in the morning. But you have to set up your priorities right... Thats why I'm here watching it! Haha :)

[@1873Winchester]

I am curious, how are these gibs retained without a notch or something in the gib itself for an adjusting screw?

[@jimsvideos7201]

It's not what you can cut, it's what you can hold.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

I think thats what machining comes down to ;) Everybody can take a huge cut, removing a large bulk of material when its held perfectly in a large hydraulic vise. But with tricky stuff like a long taper, well, thats a different story.

[@timmallard5360]

Great video! Boy Alibre has come a long way with the UI. That's the dirty secret of the cad world. They all use very similar kernals and it's lots of UI usability and automation

[@GuyFawkes911]

love your videos. can you add the german names for some of your bought stuff: like the oilgroove cutter or the precision magnets, I can't find it anywhere.

[@matthewhelton1725]

I would have done the bevels before the taper; Keith Rucker did bevels before tapers (and also used a compound magnetic vice). There are problems with doing the bevels before the taper and vice versa, so it's probably just a question of order of operations and how you choose to hold the gib during machining/ grinding.

[@DavidKutzler]

"Elongated potato chip" (smirk!). You are truly a master of the machining metaphor.

[@oki270]

As usual, great video Stefan!

[@flouserve]

Hello, can you tell me what brand and model is your grinding machine? Thanks

[@dipi71]

21:39 I admire all these flaked/scraped surfaces on that vice. Cheers!

[@vpitool]

Always interesting and very informative. Thank You!

[@SamiRahman]

I would love to see you make a sine bar. I would learn a lot

[@CreaseysWorkshop]

He did some already.

[@swanvalleymachineshop]

Nice set up milling the angles . Cheers .

[@roulbook1921]

When measuring a "flat taper" you can use a ball (or half a ball) to get a better measurement

[@dannapert4199]

Also, no matter how old and wise you are, magnets are just fun to play with

[@michaelpiotrowicz6100]

One of your best and funniest. Thanks.

[@petergoose8164]

I will never have to replicate this activity and yet I have learned so much.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Thank, good to hear. I try to compose my videos in a way that everyone mechanicaly inclined can learn at least a tiny bit from it, even if he never has to do the task shown.

[@run-by-night]

Gday. I have a mic with points on it instead of flat anvils that I assume is for measuring minor thread diameter. May be a good way to measure thickness of gib at each end without racking. Or it may not be .I always learn something here , even though its all above my pay grade cheers

[@natthewsmith]

I am still confused why could you not flip the gib end for end keeping the reference surface to the same side, am I missing something or is that not the same operation? still uses the same reference face and either way the bottom reference is the beveled edge of the gib.

[@1873Winchester]

Haven't yet watched through the video (but as usual I figure it will be high quality video), I hit stop on the dust extraction issue because I had a question. I wonder if it's more effective with a shop vac setup like Stefan has, or a would woodshop dust collector work better? When working with wood and dealing with the fine dust generated a dust collector is preferred because while it has less suction it moves a much, much bigger volume of air and creates a "negative volume" of air around the machine that makes all air borne particles move towards it and prevents them migrating around the shop and giving everything a fine layer of dust. And never mind your lungs. I am not sure the same applies to cast iron particles, if they are bigger and heavier and will fall down, then more suction is better. Anyone know the nature of the dust, are they fine enough to be suspended in air or are we talking bigger bits?

[@anderslarsson7123]

The only Acceptable stress relief is if it’s carried by the Princess of the dawn I heard...

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Accept-ed!

[@rennkafer13]

Sometime U do what you have to...

[@jeffo881]

\m/ \m/

[@TomChame]

Nice information on oil grooves. thanks

[@dwegmull]

A video about building a sine bar sounds interesting.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

The small one seen in the video I did a exhausting long video series on - But it was built without a surfacegrinder. Only mill/shaper/toolpostgrinder. Today I would have more/different options to get them more precise. I might revisit them.

[@EnlightenedSavage]

He already did.

[@elanjacobs1]

Where did you get the vacuum hose adaptor for your mag base?

[@sblack48]

Great video. Any reason you true up and cut the taper with a small endmill vs a face mill? Thank you for sharing. I always learn a lot from your work.

[@molitovv]

Glad I just sold my last stock of 100 year old outdoor nude virgin cast iron. Prices have plummeted after your comments in this video.

[@allen3050]

Was there some question that the nude virgins were not actually virgins?

[@woodscreekworkshop9939]

Thanks for another wonderful lesson

[@wrstew1272]

Little known facts about lesser known subjects is why I come here!

[@KeenanTims]

So how'd you get the gibs off the permanent magnets? ;)

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Oh, that was suprisingly unspectacular. Just slid it off to the side with handpressure.

[@hkkhgffh3613]

You have to heat them beyond the Curie temperature.

[@CraigsWorkshop]

Great info thanks Stefan.

[@akfarmboy49]

thank you for showing oil groove end mill

[@AddictedtoProjects]

Could you measure the taper using small rolling pins or thread wires in conjunction with your micrometer?

[@1ginner1]

Its feasible in theory, but difficult in practice as the pins would be free to move , unlike in thread measurement.

[@Cancun771]

Thumbs up for the double vise setup alone.