Is PHP Dying in 2024?

[@Nova-TechnoLAB]

Uncle Stef, the KZbin dad to all aspiring devs and business people. The last remaining voice of reason honestly. God bless

[@taariqq]

God Bless.

[@Colors.TF1]

HTML5, CSS3, PHP, JavaScript, jQuery, and Ajax 🎉 Powerhouse

[@dyto2287]

Did you go into coma in 2010s and just woke up?

[@neugey]

Modern PHP performs much better with FastCGI and PHP-FPM. And Laravel allows you to build well-organized and scalable web apps. These contributions have given the language staying power.

[@dyto2287]

Performance issue is not in the runtime but in design how PHP is executed.

[@na2718]

In Germany, PHP is also still pretty good for entry level jobs. Symfony seems very popular here, so probably a good thing to learn. Also I've seen a suspicious amount of job ads that ask for TYPO3 knowledge, which according to some friends is the CMS of choice for masochists.

[@hendrx]

TYPO3 is used by companies stuck deep in legacy

[@imqqmi]

100% accurate. I've done some debugging with 4 large sites based on typo3 and it was a disaster! I quickly handed it over to a specialist company and just pushed some minor changes. I'll never step into that trap ever again.

[@KJimah]

Laravel is making php even sweeter

[@hoelflores4608]

Php was my second programming language after javascript. i think php is the best language for backend web develoment because it is similar to javascript. and has inbuilt features that make backend development easy and straightforward.

[@ricardodelacrvz1400]

php is not similar to javascript at all. its not async.

[@RebelGangTv-ge4if]

Hey uncle steff ! I just wanted you to know the course I bought from you a few months ago helped me a lot. I'm learning php now & I love it.

[@StefanMischook]

Cool! Congrats on your progress!

[@IgnacioChavez]

Just today I was thinking that PHP might make a comeback. People are realizing that the newest toy is not necessary the one that will make you money, but the simplest one to use and deploy. Also, frontend masters just released a PHP course, crazy

[@pabloortiz]

Year 2018. Is PHP dying? NO Year 2019. Is PHP dying? NO Year 2020. Is PHP dying? NO Year 2021. Is PHP dying? NO Year 2022. Is PHP dying? NO Year 2023. Is PHP dying? NO Year 2024. Is PHP dying? NOOOO! Year 2025. Is PHP dying? 🥱

[@carstenaltena]

I wonder if it’s trendy to say PHP is dying or something? Clearly it’s here to stay for quite some years to come.

[@wimeatsworld]

My man, the sky is falling for PHP. So let it fall on Chicken Little's cranium and it's a free meal next to a solid pay check. What I would've adjusted to your timeline: Year 2018. Is PHP dying? "YES" according to 'creator' A Year 2019. Is PHP dying? "YES" according to 'creator' B Year .... Is PHP dying? "YES" according to 'creator' ....

[@juandavidsanchezleal]

Year 2026. no body wants to work anymore!!!!

[@dyto2287]

It's already dead though. PHP jobs are bottom of the barrel.

[@Dgmstudios40]

@@dyto2287 Not my job lol

[@_pheax]

thx for your comments Stef. good luck!

[@Meleeman011]

I'm glad I love php and not typescript

[@bfwarner]

Once a language reaches critical mass, it stays around because of its large code base. PHP will be with us for a long time.

[@TheGkmasta]

There's no way WordPress is moving its backend from PHP. Just because most recent updates are going to a heavy, complicated, client-side text editor, does not make WP a JavaScript application.

[@nickfleming3719]

PHP 8 is not just a "marginal" improvement over 7. Its speed improved significantly

[@Gman-h8d]

I don't like JavaScript. If I can Thanos it away, I would. As for PHP, it's a decent language. One of my issues with PHP is the syntax - it's a scary-looking mess. I'd get rid of the $ sign for variables... it makes my eyes bleed. I would get rid for of the array syntax... array['index'] is ridiculous... 4 extra characters to access an index! The syntax for array('index' => 'value') also needs to go. Maybe replace it with array.index = value Same goes for objects.... I don't like (new Class)->method() ... which I believe version 8.4 will address this. If PHP makes arrays and objects first class citizens, and removes the $ for variables, it will go a long way. On the other hand, it's a very flexible language with tons of libraries.

[@drunkenswede3535]

In sweden, php is strong imo

[@StefanMischook]

Cool

[@EricLaermans]

PHP isn't going down, some 'you-have-to-try-this-technologies' like RUST skyrocket. But these figures are deceptive as these 'you-have-to-try-this-technologies' also drop in popularity as fast as they rose in popularity. PHP is great!

[@ricardodelacrvz1400]

because companies stay with bullshit technologies and are afraid to innovate.

[@wimeatsworld]

Excellently based video, as usual. Just got 2 questions that are relevant to me as I should get settled by September. A) What do you mean with PHP design patterns? b) Does your course dive into getting (remote) work? I'm saving up in Europe and would love a job in North America that I can (eventually) fulfill from Latin America. Seeing how employers here are bitching about "experience", even for what they call a "starter job", I'm somewhat losing faith tbh. I don't mind investing blood, sweat and tears. I just want to have a good chance at the other side of it.

[@andreisaioc]

Also there are languages as COBOL or Haskell that are very old, but still used in many applications that are key to industry.

[@andreilucasgoncalves1416]

COBOL very likely will die, but Haskell does not. They are training a LLM to rewrite COBOL to java

[@jigsaw2253]

Haskell? No one is using that

[@edism]

​@@andreilucasgoncalves1416not likely at all while ibm still exists.

[@lourdesm.velandia-calderon3486]

🖖🏼 Thank you Uncle Stef for using the analogy of "a carpenter with his toolbox" for a web developer & his many languages. Puts it into a highly elevated perspective & absolutely more relateable than the previous analogy of "a swinger dev using many languages". 😆🤦🏻‍♀ GOD HAVE MERCY for this crazy world we live in.

[@StefanMischook]

😂

[@lourdesm.velandia-calderon3486]

@StefanMischook - I really thought that there was a chance you were going to delete my comment. Very relieved that you found it amuzing 😅😁

[@imqqmi]

Moving backend to frontend has been going on for a long time. It's also because frontend frameworks fall out of fashion much quicker than backend frameworks and needs refactoring more. Percentage wise more people are working on frontend but in absolute sense I don't see php dropping that much. And since data and functionality is key for most companies it's expensive to migrate to newly built apps and doesn't really offer you that much more. So most are stuck with what they have. One thing that doesn't show in surveys is that php is used in intranets in companies as well. I've worked on migrating 20 apps from php 5.4 to 7.4 a couple of years back all from the same company for example. Many enterprise companies also have custom software running php, and have been stuck on 'maintenance mode' for years and try and fail to migrate them to java or c#. They get stuck in the planning phase and management don't want to commit to a risky and expensive migration. Php could be the next COBOL since COBOL is not going away either.

[@kvelez]

2:32 You should do more C# and .NET videos. Especially now that new .NETs are coming.

[@373323]

wordpress may be replaced with something more modern, up to date code base filling in that niche ( large one ) , porting the plugins over would take more time for sure, but if the interface became more modern and flexible, this could be an interesting story

[@agoia2000]

Every year in the last 20 years I heard that PHP is dying! :)) I had enough!

[@JanPavlikdr]

Yeah, was thinking the same - every single year since I started with PHP3 😀

[@Steve-iy5eq]

A related question would be, is Perl dying?

[@mx_darwin043]

Thats true. Programming languages are only tools in your toolbox and should be used for specific usecases. I used PHP in my last job, and it was quite fun, to be honest. BUT here in Germany, there are a lot of PHP developers that learned directly Laravel instead of native PHP. The problem here was that if you ask them questions about PSR, for example, they don't even know that something like a PSR exists. Laravel teaches way too much magic instead of real PHP. Most of them don't even know the patterns that are used by that framework. So it's hard to find a good PHP developer. And in Europe, PHP developers are underpaid in comparison to other languages. I know a lot of php devs that are switching from php to golang, java, rust, because of that

[@NashBrooklyn]

the most universal language - php - you write everything what other languages separately can do - in other words - there are tons of various languages but all they do is to improve one another while php already has all of those improvements available - also dont forget you do need php sooner or later due to the fact that 89% of servers run php by default - so 89% of the world will not want to change to anything else but php default - why? - because it costs a hefty chunk of money to change that default as well as to keep all changes up to date - so yeah! people prefer saving money - a saved dollar is an earned dollar as they say -

[@god_bika]

IMO its probably relates to AI coming in the game. I saw the survey of backend frameworks. The Djungo is almost over passing Laravel position. But its still most cheaper to use Laravel on shared hostings

[@glennadams8833]

Learning PHP and moving on to add Laravel. PHP seems to do what I need it to do, websites for small to medium applications.

[@holonaut]

Exactly. Unfortunately companies choose to develop in PHP because it's "easy to get started" and they can get cheap devs from india, but then build insanely complex and big applications with it it where PHPs shortcomings really are like throwing sand into your own gears. I am a PHP dev and ALL my jobs in the last 5 years were for large scale applications. I'm sick and tired and learning a language that is actually suited for scalable applications

[@nobodynever7884]

​@@holonautIf php 8 is not scalable for your application you either have a site with more traffic than Facebook or it was developed by really really bad developers. That is not the fault of the language. Bad developers can make C slow to a crawl.

[@alekdemj]

I see PHP knowledge vacancies only for the projects where you need to migrate old legacy PHP code to Next.js. At least in my country.

[@ikennachirose-duty4544]

Which programming is in high demand for Blockchain

[@keyone415]

77% of all live websites use PHP is irrelevant, most of it are personal websites, or small blogs that you never visit and are not even maintained. What's more important is what's the share of the whole internet traffic that is served by PHP; because typically the websites with the most traffic are also the biggest employers on earth.

[@nobodynever7884]

That would be pr0n and torrenting. Traffic is not a good measure of usage. I would say number of jobs is better.

[@PlayBASIC-Developer]

Coding has always been pretty trendy.. There's always a percentage of coders following the new big thing, which in turn tends to influence others.. Nothings really changed that much..

[@muharief3885]

Declined doesnt mean dying. It was just shifting toward new trend, and its for good. Unfortunately while php good for web development, many programming languages also have strong footprint in this field, and they compete each other.

[@JarkkoHautakorpi]

What does the "Usage" really mean? PHP and frameworks like Laravel and Symfony are super capable and mature, requiring very little code from you when implementing your business. Same can not be said of frameworks for some other popular languages. There's really not even comparisons in Py and Js world where everyone builds their own "framework" from hundreds of different packages and modules etc. When you get such project, you can never know beforehand what kind of project it is. With Laravel, does not matter, you'll know it. If "Usage" is writing new code and inventing the wheel again and again, then yes PHP no longer has usage, pretty much everything has been done already.

[@aiamfree]

php is super competent.

[@kuthub1989]

Wordpress, and Laravel won't let PHP down.

[@rafageist]

Many devs move from JetBrains to VSCode

[@Jollyprez]

Yeah, Jetbrains' biggest competitor is free, which is hard. I'm part of a team of seven developers, and only two of us ( both very senior ) use PHPStorm instead of VSCode. I've been using PHPStorm about a decade, and don't think I could work without it.

[@Jollyprez]

@@rtothec1234 "commercial" - is that a bad thing? I don't even know what that means. VSCode is from Microsoft - is there any company more "commercial" than Microsoft? I use PHPStorm on a mid-tier MacMini M2 and have no issues with performance - speed or RAM. I get more problems with Docker. I haven't seen what VSCode does that Storm does not - is there anything? "Free" is relative. I have been using PHPStorm for quite a while, and switching to anything else would be a time sink for me.

[@kirillzlobin7135]

As I understand this chanel is dedicated to the topic - `Is PHP Dying in ${YEAR}?`

[@kwyaza]

😂 PHP has been dying since forever, yet Laravel seems to be making a comeback. People are burned out with Next.js and the rest of the JS ecosystem.

[@andreisaioc]

PHP isnt going down. Wordpress is based on PHP and that's 40% of the websites in the world. I think PHP is a great way to deploy stuff like sites, mvps, mobile apps apis or web apps apis.

[@Feedback406]

php is my fav for web apps Real easy to get up and running and documents easy to understand

[@djRichyRichh]

It's more about new projects. What are people using for new projects.

[@space_monkey125]

How are you doing buddy?

[@freaklore]

Not sure about the decline as it seems to be used extensively. There are upcoming frameworks out there for PHP like Trongate that are being adopted as well.

[@lifebyvikk6751]

I see uncle stef,I click,simple.

[@V8Li]

I have less than 40 hours in a framework I’m building, it has pretty much all the generic things I’ve done in my career: OOP and MVC, routing, sharding support (I can set DB connections in controllers and have them propagate in the models for all CRUD), dynamic subdomain support, language support, custom session management, Ajax for all pages (real one, not just refreshing DOM for aparent faster loads). It can do anything and does it better, it’s at 0.004s when all done on a hosting I am paying 1.5E/month. Honestly, with all the economic problems that will come after these years of general bashing (PHP included) I think we’re up for smooth sailing in many years to come. I know C# coders with gastritis from building some sh!t API and they haven’t even started getting into full-stack so yea 😂

[@andycx2]

It definitely seems to dieing here in the UK. The number of php jobs in my area has declined massively and of those jobs most are garbage. The wages for php is far lower now than other languages and much lower than c#. People just don't seem to want to take php seriously. It's just not cool. I've had people scoff at me when I mentioned php.

[@krisrudecki9477]

Is there a langauage that has better web frameworks (Symfony, Laravel) and CMSs (Drupal etc.) than PHP?

[@woody-xm5ve]

Uncle Stef I’m pretty new here and I’m in my early 40s trying to transition from QA engr to software dev. Any advice on what courses(affordable) that I could take? Most of the udemy courses are outdated. Thanks in advance ✌🏽✌🏽✌🏽

[@StefanMischook]

I am biased but I think my own courses are best! :) That said, I have an interactive platform that I built and leverage in my bootcamp / mentoring program: unclestef.com. I also have standalone courses if you want to work solo.

[@SXsoft99]

Php drop in popularoty has prpblems in my opinion because: - google still gives shitty responses sometimes - the php foundation guys were developer forst and not doing presentations and hype train stuff - JavaScript in the past 10 years has had a lot of people and companies push functionality and buzz words in all directions, heck there isnt a day where i don't hear something new in JS That beeing said, languages like C# arent doing that great either, but i think its the same reason as for PHP, its an older langiage woth no hype train. On another note companies did a mess of things since the pandemic with hiring staff. Popularity doesn't mean the lack of prejects though. At the moment investment is down sooo new projects have problems. At the same time i did see a pot of prokects done jn JS but have basically no userbase and im like "yeah cute project, tell me when people use it". At the moment i can say that after a few years of working with PHP on the backend its good to also learn pther languages as well. People already knew JS, so seasy to shit some things. Other lamguage i recently looked into is GO and kotlin so yeah good to learn things in advance especially if you have the time

[@JoshtheFifith]

people are moving over to managed services like shopify and wix

[@taariqq]

@ 6:13 that .. THAT .. I have 20

[@Ktvk-xe8pg]

For typical non-commercial application PHP will always be there.

[@navi2710]

PHP died in 2000. Then agian in 2001, then 2002 and then kept dying every single year.

[@airaction6423]

Big tech try to bring it down but people logic is stronger

[@navedshaikh853]

Should i learn c# now?

[@JuriBinturong]

I am enjoying the PHP (WordPress, TALL stack) world right now, coz I am really tired of React, which is why I'm baffled why Automattic drank the Kool-aid and went with React.

[@ridwanray]

It's not going down. Though am a Pythonista.❤

[@jaimeduncan6167]

2 Billion website and only 33 million uses PHP? if that is the case PHP is almost irrelevant, with less than 1.65% of websites using php. The significant percentage of sites using old versions of PHP show that is basically legacy. The web grow on the shoulders of LAMP, with P being PHP far more than PERL. PHP toke to long to fix issues, but more than issues was unable to control the narrative. We know a good part of WordPress movement is to lower hosting costs, but there are other interesting, and valid, technical reasons. WP declarations could be the le coup de grâce for PHP. People are learning Phython for AI and will build Websites with Python.

[@Spar10YT]

Sir m start using wordpress backend and react front end is that goog

[@rapideye85]

That first negative post with that percentage chart doesn't make sense when they added HTML/CSS as a language which shaves off the percentage of PHP and all the other server-side languages. That publication must hate PHP with a burning passion. It's so hilarious to me. It's only code. I don't know how anybody uses anything else other than PHP

[@373323]

wordpress tho a mature code base, is terribly old code, yes it is being kept up, but wordpress needs a new gen rewrite , just to keep it usable, the ca

[@onyekachiemeka6255]

PHP and C# are kings in UK Node and Javascript follows then Java is not popular

[@airaction6423]

C# is soulless like every microsoft product apart from windows and office

[@lebahsaham9947]

Why people so hate php

[@archiemisc]

Because of their personal hangups from 25+ years ago

[@StefanMischook]

Because they were told to.

[@skavihekkora5039]

Plenty of php based ecommerce move to shopify

[@wb3904]

If a language is crappy then it will be around for a long time

[@SaiyanJin85]

People should stop using JavaScript so much, it’s a bad language , this is the bad part of our tech world, people jump into the hype

[@nobodynever7884]

What do you expect the guy wrote it in 10 days.

[@SaiyanJin85]

@@nobodynever7884 lol

[@BokeemWoodbeezy]

JS is the only language compiled and executed in the web browser. Anything with an interactive UI such as writing this comment is in JS. You can build full stack applications using SSR with Next JS and BaaS like Firebase or Supabase. It’s a very convenient language. It’s not going anywhere. I hated it too at one point, but now I have tremendous respect for it.

[@unionics]

If PHP is dying then it's need another WordPress

[@asepbahn3113]

Man I'm currently learning PHP 😢

[@StefanMischook]

PHP is great! Lots of work! Keep learning!

[@asepbahn3113]

​@@StefanMischook Thank you sir, I Will continue learning it 🫡

[@dodzb7362]

PHP is still great, we make big systems on it. Very stable, very mature, very big documentation. New languages are unstable.

[@tracyrreed]

PHP is dying and good riddance. But at least it keeps my incident response business profitable!😂

[@rustamergashev7278]

👍

[@ordinaryBrain4300]

I hate javascript.

[@papa_ethan]

LARAVEL is booming

[@illegalsmirf]

A WordPress 'developer' LOL

[@user-bj9wg3wr4j]

What is dead may never die😂

[@etorty_dev]

Why do you enjoy throwing jabs at Ruby specifically? 😂😂

[@StefanMischook]

She cheated on me.

[@etorty_dev]

@@StefanMischook little wonder 🤣🤣

[@jzajzz]

0:34 no.. can you please explain what a swinging coder is 😂😂

[@nicolas_vl]

How cares about Wordpress. It was a shithole of bad coding decisions and patterns, and still is. Database design, backend and whatever hook system and overwriting, non existent templating engine( which gives “freedom” and breaks and coding standards in the ecosystem ) css and js in PHP like 2000’s. Slow, I mean with WPML you can get up to 300 queries a page, ffs. So no, Wordpress going towards JS is not PHP related. The blur the line here FE vs Backend. Yeah PHP for FE in 2024 is not an option for an admin panel ( good morning Wordpress ), but PHP for microservices, APIs and so on is golden

[@raiyansarker]

here is one thing I would like to add, I don't think php usage declined due to WordPress although it can be a cause, but I think it is due to better alternatives!

[@FreeVideoGames_]

PHP is not dying lol 😂

[@train_xc]

It is dying lol. Only freelancers use it. No serious tech start up use

[@wixmich08]

@@train_xc What do start up's use?

[@train_xc]

@@wixmich08 I’ve seen JS, Python & Java. 5 years ago I’ve seen Ruby, but now less and less use it. Some startups do use Wordpress though but never a php framework .

[@mx_darwin043]

@@wixmich08 Of course, I can't speak for all startups, but I know some larger companies here in Germany/Austria/Switzerland that are building their microservice landscape with Golang. Some companies have rewritten their product from php to springboot/node/rust. I talked to some recruiters on LinkedIn and they told me that most junior php developers learn Laravel, but not php. I know it sounds weird but many are no longer learning the native php behind the frameworks but just the magic of the frameworks. Finding good PHP developers is therefore difficult.

[@tarnum113]

Ruby is dead. Get over it! Just kidding 😅

[@adrian___a]

I think PHP is about to die as much as SAML 2.0 in the past 10+ years 😀

[@PriestleyJill-d6b]

White Karen Davis Charles Allen Sharon

[@fafaratze]

php is always dying. ruby is also dying, cobol is in life support, a decade from now, programming is dying

[@waelltifi-2023]

yes , yes it's dying and useless now , i was a php developper and it is and i'm sorry !! and it's not like before , i'm sorry stefan , but coding now is a whole new game , it's not about snippets of algorithm and being smart anymore , AI can help there , now the challenge is to navigate all the phylosophy of a certain frame work and they are not the same !! angular and react are miles appart , and each it's own ocean ! that's the painful truth , and learning them won't get you any closer to learning springboot or symfony , every thing is it's own island and it's easy to waste time now ! choose wisely your tech and focus on it for the rest of your time !!

[@dimitarnikolov7563]

Damn… okay, 🙏 😊 Im an Angular/.Net dev btw 😁

[@r0ck3r4ever]

All of these do things in their own way, but you can for sure jump from one to another as the concepts are similar. You have to work it out and understand it, but those are islands on the same planet.

[@Hdhshdg877]

My age is 33, and I started web development 6 months ago. Is it right for me to continue with it or not?