Still TERRIBLE? | Avanti West Coast - have they improved?

[@Vanmanyo]

Thanks for watching! If you haven't already, why not consider subsribing - we're closing in on 6,000 subscribers and it would mean a lot for me :)

[@maimadha]

Your videos are the best

[@MrTudwud]

Since my days as a Performance Manager, I would say that the TOCs are not held to account as they used to be. We used to supply the Government directly (before 11 am on a daily basis) stating punctuality and reliability figures - any later, big fine. Any major discrepencies/serious performance issues were punished with massive fines. We also had to ensure that the agreed capacities were adhered to exactly as they were originally published. If we promised 8 cars, then 8 cars it had to be. All these facts and figures were audited 3 times per annum by Government Officials and woe betide if they found any errors/mistakes. The other major commitment was that TOCs HAD to post the punctuality and reliability figures at all Class 1 stations so that the Public could see how they were doing (or not so in the case of Avanti!). I was very disappointed to hear from an ex-colleague who is still a Performance Manager (dealing with capacities) for what has to be an undisclosed TOC. She told me that all capacity issues are now dealt with "in-house". She assures me that it is the same with all other performance issues. If this is true, this is a massive backwards step and an insult, IMO, to the travelling Public. Her words were backed up by a Manager of another TOC (one whose capacities are probably the worst of all) who told the leader of a local Transport Action Group (of whom I am a member) that she would not meet us to discuss performance issues because thay are dealt with "in house". For me, the whole issue needs to be looked at urgently.

[@kaitlyn__L]

Yep :( I vaguely recall hearing the Tories talk about how their rail reforms would "reduce regulatory interference" and "allow greater operator flexibility to respond to demand" and so on. Just like with their deregulation of the building safety industry at the same time, which also started marking all their homework "in-house", it's been a disaster. (Though thankfully not with quite the same loss of life as the latter example.) However I must say, it's quite amazing that Northern managed to get its contract revoked (and replaced with the OLR) _even with_ those reporting reforms. Of course, it's not just those two industries - _almost every_ industry's regulatory reporting got moved "in-house" in the mid 2010s. Deregulation, just like privatisation before it, has not and could not ever have achieved its stated aims. What really remains to be seen, is how much will be walked-back by the new government or whether they will "wait and see" just like Blair did with the franchise system.

[@aaronsmith9209]

The lack of management at Euston is what annoys me the most, no other station makes getting a train so stressful. The platform for Avanti trains are announced too late every time, leading to a mad dash to the train. Hundreds of people all at once, even travelling in 1st class is ruined because of that. And because the platform was announced late, the train is delayed, last time this delayed it 20 minutes with no communication from staff, which is not fun on a full train. I think it's the worst for Manchester services, as so many seem to get cancelled. It's not like this with either the Overground or London North Western Railway at Euston either. I wish LNWR ran direct London to Liverpool trains or at least coordinated the timetable better (40 minute wait in Crewe currently!). But at least from Crewe there is a choice of services to Manchester, even Northern are more enjoyable than Avanti. And even though King's Cross and LNER are also very busy, it is way more organised and calmer as a result and the staff seem happier and more fulfilled to me. Before my time, but they should just bring back Intercity.

[@Vanmanyo]

I've never actually taken an Avanti train from Euston, but I've seen the mess unfold. I'm just grateful I live on the Chiltern mainline!

[@aaronsmith9209]

@@Vanmanyo Yeah I try to avoid them but isn't always possible. East Coast Main Line is much better to use but unfortunately doesn't go to Manchester. Connections to Yorkshire towns could be a lot better from that end! I am on the West Anglia Line myself so I regularly use Liverpool Street and Stratford and can't complain after the chaos at Euston!

[@arsenalfantv1001]

​@Vanmanyo I'll put it this way. They call trains 4 minutes before departure.

[@kaitlyn__L]

Wow, that's awful. I must admit the situation is much better on the Glasgow terminus side!

[@MarkBreton-dr5qz]

This channel makes me feel warm and goofy when I watch, amazing quality as always VMYO, enjoy your weekend

[@Vanmanyo]

I endorse this message ✅✅✅✅✅✅✅

[@poopoodealer8975]

Thank you Mark breton dr5qz

[@JonBowe]

Doesn't matter what stock you have in your arsenal, if you struggle to keep your staff happy. Biggest problem with franchises is shareholders.

[@Vanmanyo]

Agreed completely.

[@olivergeorge4394]

Interesting video, I’ve found that Avanti Rail has been reliable more times than not from personal experience! Would love it if the incoming government would increase transport funding especially for lines like this, that are functioning ok but over time without sufficient funding would crumble. GREAT video as always!

[@kaitlyn__L]

That last bit, "over time without funding would crumble" made it really stark how we've just been coasting on the 1999-2004 investment on the WCML. Obviously that's physically represented by the Pendolinos' (Pendolini?) continued reliance, and the fact the max speed is still 125mph, but it runs much deeper than that.

[@David_22_Raya]

I was on the west coast mainline when the de-railment happened by Preston

[@poopoodealer8975]

Nice coc

[@Pikaling3408]

I don't think Avanti will last for much longer. Especially under a Labour Government because there will be a lot of Labour MPs especially from West Midlands, North West England, Central Scotland and North Wales where Avanti operates services to/from that will be calling for the West Coast route to be brought under operator of last resort and with the Scottish elections in 2026 they would probably want to do that before then so that they can have something positive to defend. So I think this will be a Failed Franchise quite soon.

[@kaitlyn__L]

Great shout on that last bit. Especially as they'll be able to point toward ScotRail's service improvements and massively-increased electrification these last couple of years.

[@DKS225]

No need to apologise Vanmayo i still find your clips very interesting to watch short or long. Especially with the statistics included to each clip.

[@Vanmanyo]

Thank you 😊😊 I do appreciate it!

[@MarkBreton-dr5qz]

Great Video Vanmanyo, you’ve earned yourself a subscription!!! 😱👏

[@Vanmanyo]

Now do this 1 million times 🙏

[@poopoodealer8975]

​@@Vanmanyowill do mummy

[@kieranalexischd536]

Used it once since they took over after Virgin and it was decent. Train left on time and acc made it to Euston early. However nothing will ever be the same to me as i still forever remember it as Virgin

[@andrewvannan1714]

Avanti's other issue is the lack of accountability when staff misbehave or be disablist towards customers and blame the customers when things get formal. Trust me I am suing them

[@captaindebug]

Rail travel is a Hobson's choice lottery - I have a choice of three operators from my local station, which in order of preference are: 1) Avanti - they may have problems, but their Pendolino service are the most comfortable and not particularly crowded (note that I usually travel off peak). 2) West Midland Trains - with it's uncomfortable 5 across seating should be avoided if possible 3) Cross Country and it's really cr**py Voyager trains that are the worst for comfort, are always over crowded, and falling to bits... The Pendolino may be the best option available to me, but they don't come close to the experience of travelling in a HST - a train that will probably never be bettered.

[@Vanmanyo]

I'm lucky with Chiltern - I can still get that authentic mk3 feeling!

[@Glenn1967ful]

I'm using Avant to travel from Carlisle to Birmingham this week and I have heard the trains are getting more reliable and have been upgraded. I concur about Cross Country,, used them once on the ECML and the train was noisy due to being diesel, overcrowded, dirty and expensive.

[@kaitlyn__L]

I'm going to be sad once the HSTs finally retire from intercity Scottish service. Mark3 coaches are annoying to get into with my wheelchair, with their height it's the only time I can't push myself up ramps (it takes me AND staff pushing together!) but once you're _actually in_ the coach the wheelchair zones are large, spacious, and easy to move-about in. The Pendolinos have fairly spacious wheelchair zones as well, (though it competes with luggage space in a way the Mark3s don't), but the (Super) Voyagers cram you into a tiny section and put you right on top of the engine for a bone-rattling time. However, since the discussions in Transport Scotland right now are focused on upgrading the northern rail links (with better passing places, junction interchange improvements, and possibly extra tracks in some sections to increase top speeds and make better use of the HST capability), it's looking like we'll see them in use for quite some time to come. At least until 2035. Especially since ScotRail made a big fuss about how their refurbishment had cost them only 10% what a recent-ish new order of EMUs did!

[@garyfitzpatrick3562]

Still absolutely awful. Hopefully a change of government will sort out the cancellations. I think they have lost the dressing room as far as staff are concerned.

[@Jay-ll1kc]

I've have been stood on the platform with 2 Train Managers (Guards), 2 Drivers, and 4 Catering staff. And the first they knew their train was cancelled was the station announcement with the citing that it was due to a lack of traincrew, that's two journeys cancelled with more than enough staff to work it, yet its still the staffs fault according to Avanti.

[@mbo405]

Couldn't it be that a previous journey was not made due to lake of staff.. The next trip will still be canceled due to lack of staff because the staff with you on the platform can't do a job without a train?

[@tomtope7064]

As someone who is Travelling regularly between Manchester and London (Euston) not a day goes by when the train isnt delayed when leaving London, worst one was 2 weeks ago of a 75 min delay .... shouldve left at 8.30pm.disnt leave till 9.45 and didnt get back to Manc till 10 mins past midnight.... these delays then tend to have a knock on effect and the earlier train then gets overcrowded and arrives later than usual esp in the evening, AWC service offering - for this route in partic is imo Not worth the cost of the expensively (over)priced ticket ....

[@HillierHugh]

Having tried out the 805s recently and going on a 390 for the first time in 8 years and since First/trenitalia took over, I can truly say I thought avantis onboard standard class product on both trains was really good and I’m excited about what the 807s will bring. My 390 back was late (although it was from MKC on a flexi ticket so no biggie) but overall I think avanti seem very good currently.

[@Vanmanyo]

Trains are good definitely! Overcrowding is still a pretty big issue sadly. Yesterday I went on a 390 from Birmingham to Stafford and the train was pretty packed so I voluntarily jumped ship onto a Cross Country service where I actually got a seat!

[@HillierHugh]

@@Vanmanyo yeah I can see that our return train to London was pretty busy and me and my companion were only just able to snag a seat row in the rear coach. So yeah defo crowded

[@bocbinsgames6745]

I like the pendolinos. Can't say much for the company as a whole tbh I've only taken them once and it turned up mostly on time that time. But compared to the return journey (CrossCountry pain) it was miles better. (I can probably turn any train experience into a complaint about XC lol)

[@Liverpoolbestteamintheworld]

Consider yourself lucky then avanti west coast is often delayed and cancelled 😂😂

[@lonun67]

At least the Evero trains are more tolerable unlike their earlier counterparts except the 803s with more comfortable seats.

[@loftlegacy]

Got a first class return booked next week between Liverpool and Euston. You know what, it will be OK.

[@Vanmanyo]

I've done first class to Carlisle, it's definitely worth it!

[@MarkBreton-dr5qz]

From personal experience, where I live in eastern Fife, I’ve found Scottish transport to be poor at times, with avanti rail made a connecting line from Glasgow to Fife!

[@Vanmanyo]

Fife do have caledonian sleeper services!

[@MarkBreton-dr5qz]

Great need to look into it

[@kaitlyn__L]

I was just reading the 2023 conclusions from 2022's Scotland-wide transport consultation. It sounds like they want to do a lot to improve Tayside and Firthside rail connections, to make it easier to get to Edinburgh and Glasgow. I hope it actually happens! (I was reading it myself to learn about "Clyde Metro", but saw those mentioned alongside it)

[@JackGourdon-je4ze]

I think Virgin was better than Avanti West Coast

[@JustLuke69]

Least unpopular opinion

[@transportlegendshorts]

Let’s just wait and see if Virgin trains return 👀

[@elijah_trains]

They have been an improvement it’s just the train technology is very bad as staff been saying this

[@MarkBreton-dr5qz]

We need to incorporate a Soviet line system, low fares and reliable times with minimal cancellations, I’d like to say that communism is the way forward in terms of trains!

[@Vanmanyo]

Well this is an interesting approach for sure, but if it means lower fares, more reliability then......

[@AFCManUk]

What will happen to all the 221's? Surely, despite everything, they're still too good to be scrapped?

[@arnoldspottingvideos5269]

Some of the 221s will go to CrossCountry (12 of them)

[@CC-Cobalt-1043]

The rest might either go to GC or this new Grand Union company that's meant to be starting this year

[@michaelwells6797]

In all fairness I have used Avanti a number of times and had no problems. Trains always been on time and on board staff excellent. No problems with booking tickets etc. However a few days ago at Crewe massive delays and cancellations due to fatality between Watford and Euston,all lines in and out closed. Avanti cannot be blamed for fatalities.

[@mbo405]

I had 6 days in february a hotel at coventry and used avanti extensive with interrail first class and compared to my trips in 2023 they were avarage compared to bad as tpe in 2023, both has improved where avanti more then tpe. Overall avanti provided me with no delays above 15 minutes and catering service on all trips compared to 2023 where I had 2 trips from manchester cancelled completely, some serious delays and 2 out of 3 trains catering serviced..

[@Vanmanyo]

6 days in Coventry... I do hope you were okay 🙏

[@elixier33]

I was also one of the first people to go on these units. It was purely by accident I didn't realise that everything was changing bad boy do I miss Virgin trains even though they sucked as well.

[@simonboulton4490]

May be Avanti 221 should go to cross country as they have a huge problem with over crowding.

[@mudchute4dlr]

theyre going to both grand central and crosscountry

[@Anonymoususer_8823]

Well now you do know that people are wondering why the Class 805s are 5-Car and not 7-Car or 9-Car. But to be honest I actually quite like them. I think that Avanti West Coast are getting better than Virgin Trains.

[@Joserider123]

Don’t think they’re failing but they aren’t good. The trains themselves are fine but the company and owners need to fix this. Everytime I’m in Manchester it’s always Avanti that have cancellations, usually with train crew. Engineering works and line faults isn’t on them but on the network rail operators. Avanti either need to sell up or fix these issues

[@ethmister]

Avanti need to take a lesson from GWR management its much better

[@ludwigtails]

Yea no I am still disapproved of the class 805 and 807. Being that they cannot tilt on the WCML. :/ and another of those IETs because TOCs can’t be bothered to offer use new trains designs cuz the IET has been seen everywhere else.

[@rankedcitizen]

Avanti are planning to work with NetworkRail to bring some of the legacy 110 MPH sections up to 125 for non tilt trains as some of these were in place for older stock which were less safe/derail more easily. And even then, the everos are an improvement to the voyagers, and only currently add an additional 7 minutes of travel time between london and holyhead

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@rankedcitizen there's also talks among Transport Scotland to refurbing (sections of?) the WCML, including a specific mention of assessing the viability of quad-tracking when compared with land acquisition costs for other local lines. (I suppose because of how even if HS2 gets extended back to Manchester, it'll still have to run on the WCML after that.) Could fizzle-out and go nowhere, but could be pretty exciting! Especially if the outer tracks get appropriate turn-banking added to them, which arguably should've been done in the early-2000s upgrade.

[@ZLDSmogless]

1:40 Heeeeeeyyyyyy it's the bentolino 9:10 it's the pendogreeno I think the 807s should be called Pretendolinos

[@CC-Cobalt-1043]

The 90s have already claimed that one, maybe something similar tho

[@alexpeak16]

I can't recall Virgin Trains having the scale of problems and hopelessness Avanti have. I like to think FirstGroup (including management) and total hatred of the railway network from the government are responsible. They've never even tried to show anything but indifference to how broken our network is.

[@jimbo6059]

Well First Group were noted for almost terminating the Thameslink when it was First Crapital Connect.

[@alexpeak16]

@@jimbo6059My god they were useless as FCC. Not just the fact 319s were dangerously overcrowded

[@Vanmanyo]

There's a reason I've done a full video on them too haha!

[@AK-jo6nv]

Why do people think Avanti west coast are bad. There are good

[@Vanmanyo]

Currently replying to you standing in a vestibule on an Avanti service because there's not enough seats...

[@Vanmanyo]

Currently replying to you standing in a vestibule on an Avanti service because there's not enough seats...

[@londonbus_46]

yes video have come out

[@jamesryeland1635]

You can’t blame Avanti West Coast for the Weather or a person being hit by a train

[@Vanmanyo]

Nope and I dont!

[@poopoodealer8975]

yes I CAN jamesryeland

[@jamesryeland1635]

@@Vanmanyo I there are some people out there who think that when there is a delay due to something caused by bad weather sometimes they blame Avanti but they Avanti have nothing to do with the weather all they can do is the trains how the trains run on any given day and the staff like it is not just Avanti that suffers from staff shortages other train companies also suffer from staff shortages from time to time

[@NoxXon.]

@@jamesryeland1635it’s usually the local commuters on twitter that have no idea about anything complaining on a daily basis

[@Mythical_Squid]

Great Video! 🎉

[@Vanmanyo]

Thank you! 😁

[@stevenmoran4060]

No!

[@trainlover16]

I’ve always hated the 800 series of intercity trains. EVERYTHING, they replaced was better, the HSTs, the IC225s, and the voyagers. So if anything, by this alone, AWC have gotten worse.

[@biscuit715]

Whats odd is the trains could be great if it wasn't for a bunch of strange passenger comfort choices. I do appreciate the improved speed and obviously safety.

[@trainlover16]

@@biscuit715 It’s not strange, it’s ridiculous.

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@biscuit715 yeah, the seats, seating arrangements, and poor provision for wheelchairs and cyclists (at least in the GWR and LNER interior; let's see for Avanti I guess) are absolutely baffling.

[@italiantrainspotting2024]

Very nice video,🎉🎉 just one things at 5:39 you used the wrong Trenitalia's logo. Otherwise great job

[@Vanmanyo]

Thank you! Apologies for this, if I remember correctly it was because I could not find a modern Trenitalia logo which was high quality so had to settle for the older one - sorry again!