We Were ALL WRONG About Arknights Endfield's Gacha....

[@Stixxy]

Do YOU ever pull for DUPES in Gacha games?

[@IRikku]

Yes, In Guardian Tales specifically and only in GT

[@IRikku]

Weapon dupes are needed to easily MLB selective weapons. Characters dupes are also much wanted in most games to max them out, especially for supports

[@unloyal4847]

If the Dupe is gamebreaking then yeah, otherwise I rather really not want to pull for dupes.

[@alxchief]

When the character gets insane with a dupe like firefly E1 or E2 in hsr or jinshi and shorekeeper RC1 in wuwa

[@IRikku]

Orrr what the other people are saying, if they’re gamebreaking, I’d be glad to get dupes

[@mededwa9937]

Gacha players worst enemy : reading comprehension

[@damonsteine]

😂 that is if they even bother to read 🤣

[@Stixxy]

We're Gacha gamers. The most requested feature is a "skip" button for a reason. ;D

[@MPaz-ART]

but there are some trying but sadly they have a very basic english, like me 😅 i could watch other content creators or readying the gacha rules in my native language, but the only way to lern english is by constantly choose english content

[@Reldan]

​@Stixxy Story sure. I think it's good to know what you're doing when money gets involved unless you're so rich it doesn't matter.

[@MrProfizmus]

This is such a condescending "meme" to parrot, and if you'd bothered to watch the video, you'd know it doesn't even apply. The title ("We Were ALL WRONG About Arknights Endfield's Gacha") is strongly misleading, likely on intention. He correctly read, understood and recited how the gacha in the game functions in both videos, he just decided to feel a little different about it now in-context (for imho very dubious reasons) while explicitly maintaining his overall conclusion still. This is not a "reading comprehension" matter, unless everything reasoning related somehow counts as reading comprehension in your view, which is such a blatantly twisted definition that I really don't know what to tell you.

[@viethoanggamer]

Wdym that the gacha system is okay? My Mr.Snowman said it's the worst gacha system in the history of gacha games. And ofc he's right, he never wrong about anything. I'd rather believe a tourist like him who cant even access to the beta test, rather than someone who completed the game, right? My guy never spread misinformation, he spent hours to do research about the game before criticizing it, 100% he did not just read a reddit post and made a video out of it. So yeah, 100% the gacha is bad

[@Bylov6812]

hilarious post, take my updoot

[@thundercat7809]

But Mr.Snowguy said this is perfect gacha system out there! So which snow fella we can trust?

[@Incorretc]

Definitely, opinions that have ragebaits and don't have any concrete source are the best!

[@LustLord]

Mr snowguy? Sorry i just know mr jackie chan

[@fashyakupercent20]

I live under the cave😂. Who is this snowman you're talking about?

[@mattc2626]

If they change pity to carry over, then they will definitely increase the 120 at the same time. They won’t let us have both.

[@NAi2004]

the 80 pull pity carries over but its the 50/50 one, while the 120 pity is the one that reset. and if i were to choice, i rather have the guarantee after losing the first 50/50 than the 120 pity carrieng over

[@Stixxy]

True, but failing the 50/50 over and over is also unrewarding.

[@lokouba]

@@Stixxy if dupes aint worth it then don't pay and enjoy the f2p experience

[@DaedLizrad]

​​@@Stixxy I've been hearing talk that these banner characters aren't limited though and will be added to the general pool after their banners end, if that's the case and they don't have the fomo of the mainstream gatchas, then I think their gatcha is entirely fair when compared to Wuwa, let alone genshin. The guarantee comes 40 pulls early, the 50-50 carries over, and you can get copies of the character at any point rather than having them dangled and removed periodically in a predatory manner of false scarcity. Course that's predicated on the rumor/data mining claims being accurate.

[@PerryWest-k4j]

Nobody can convince me this is a good gacha system they keep saying it's less but it's literally 50/50 after u get the guaranteed then if u get the 6 star character early u cant even save up for the next character cause u have to pull on the banner just to get weapon currently then ppl are saying dupes are useless if they were useless they wouldn't have made dupes in the first place

[@anzui4806]

The only people that should be complaining about the 120 guarantee being a 1 time per banner are whales. Why would a F2P player pull for dupes? are hoyo players THAT brainwashed? Also, are there really people that would rather have a 160 guarantee that carries over rather than a 120 guarantee that doesn't?

[@Sergazz]

Yes, they would rather spend billions of pulls to get one character guaranteed than a much cheaper gacha with higher chances but no guarantee.

[@Akmarillion]

becuase they want to, how fricking hard is that to believe for you

[@JamesP7]

@@Sergazz It really makes no sense. There already is a guarantee, and it is better than the Hoyo systems. 💀

[@Sergazz]

@JamesP7 well it's not hoyo system so it's already worse smh

[@JamesP7]

@@Sergazz Yep, can’t believe that’s really their mentality.

[@Shimimaro89]

The result of your poll are clearly skewed by people who thinks that dupes have an heavy impact in how a character works, but in Arknights is completely different, their impact is much lower and people should not pull for dupes unless they want to whale...

[@manjiste1239]

4:40 lemme stop you there. IF they continue what they did in AK, the most buffs you're gonna get through dupes is VERY little compared to genshin. I haven't played genshin recently but back then raiden shogun ideally needed C2? I forgot why but that kinda thing wouldn't happen here? you and the remaining 37% were incentivized to pull for dupes cuz of how much they buff the character. maybe rethink if you really want to pull for dupes here.

[@velvetra29]

Because in OG AK, dupes means almost nothing unless you really want to tryhard at Contingency Contract, which will give you nothing but bragging rights. I think it's good to make dupes have no crazy effect at gameplay. You don't want them start locking gameplay mechanics behind dupes like hoyo.

[@underbobdog]

W comments 🗣️

[@JAzure-hk1sx]

The only notable and un-f2p stuff in ak were bagpipe p5 and it's usually because of flagpipe synergy, but that nowadays already can be settled with getting her module for massively cheaper option or using agent ops as vanguard, but then again, there's no cc in sight for another 6-7 months in glb so, yeah

[@edhunter9077]

@@JAzure-hk1sx Bagpipe module gives initial SP to herself, it doesn't work for other Vanguards, which is what Bagpipe pot increases when reached.

[@JAzure-hk1sx]

@@edhunter9077 hol up, guess I misremembering the talent upgrade part of the module, since the DP gain is quite similar to just using pot5 flagpipe pre module

[@Hitomonsunami]

The day we defending whales... is the day Hoyo have successfully brainwashed gacha gamers, even gamers that hate Hoyo with a passion to the point we are scaring new non-hoyo games into just using Hoyo's gacha system. So many are new to the gacha genre that few realize that pulling for dupes and whaling for dupes are different things. We debate the system but not the reason. Most are F2P and dolphins, but still pull for "dupes" because of predatory practices such as powercreep or to unlock full "experience" for a charactor. Genshin has it where dupes would unlock not just stats but gameplay mechanics, HSR would need vertical investment for their favorites to keep up with hp scaling and new mechanics. Most real whales are pulling regardless of the "benefit". Some in asia even pull dupes higher than what is need to "max" constellations... What people are forgetting is that "whales" are the ones longer in the gacha space and have been pulling before Genshin introduced the "pity" system. They have benn playing gachas forever and have the money to pull.... MONEY is NOT the issue with "whales", hence that is why that CAN whale. They see waifu and husbando and love the game... then they keep pulling till they are satisfied... period. What we need is a gacha system catered to the mainstream players (F2P and dolphins). Too bad Kuro got scared and made Hoyo system just a little bit better. How about we push corpas for better gacha systems for the less wealthy? Maybe better returns on daily passes and season passes? Or have a default option that will discourage "building pity" which most CCs regard as a bad thing but are defending it with their life for this case? Or maybe ensure we keep dupes are very little benefit like in OG Arknights? Why are we defending whales... it is like trying to defend a multi-billion dollar company in a round about way. We don't need to defend whales.... we need to cure/rehabiltate ourselves from Hoyo brain rot.

[@Stixxy]

I actually find Genshin's Gacha to be atrocious. WuWa's is bad as well. I prefer Azur Lane - every character is free. Or even PGR - where you have a guarantee @ 60 pulls. Both are very f2p friendly.

[@rairye]

@@Stixxy true, when wuwa released i was disappointed it didnt follow their PGR gacha system

[@marfit77]

@@Stixxy True but I like the ability to not lose out on a character just because I didn't feel like looking at the gacha at the time. I do hope they add a seperate pity system like what is in Guardian Tales where every character is in the shop and purchasable with mileage which obtainable from doing the gacha itself (you never lose them after a banner) and every character you didn't own was in the shop.

[@kuma-bw1we]

Endfield is trying to save money for gamers, by discouraging whaling and shifting all the benefits to f2p (people who only pull one copy). Yet Stix is trying to push endfield to milk us for more money. I am 100% certain that if Endfield changed the current gacha system to wuwa's system, they would earn more money than current system, at the same time satisfy Stix and many others. Finally, a company that actively discourage whaling, but content creators like Stix, wants Endfield to milk us. I understand that Stix doesn't like wuwa's gacha system either, but I don't remember him being this negative toward wuwa's system as compared to Endfield. I don't see him petition Wuwa to change their gacha system to be more player friendly, actively. I see double standards here, I just want Stix and other to have the same standard for Endfield vs wuwa. Endfield's gacha system is just objectively better than wuwa system. If you put the two system up for a vote, players in the community who has rudimentary level of math knowledge will mostly vote for the current Endfield's system over wuwa's system. When push comes to shove, people will take Endfield's system over wuwa any day.

[@phantomblade89]

As a new player to wuwa, I agree 100%

[@kariellokwell914]

Something that several Arknights players have been saying and that these CC have not wanted to listen, is that Arknights does not keep generating money from its characters, but from its skins, growth packs, limited commemorative packs, real-life merchandise, mangas, art books, cooking books, the sale of anime season in CDs and sales of music CDs and tickets to ambience synestesia concerts. If hypergryph can diversify their income source to a degrees that allow them to be un black numbers and be part of many charitable works such as building hospitals, COVID research in their time, feeding children in disadvantaged situations, and collaborating with environmental protection and cultural conservation institutions... it says a lot about how well their business model is run and what are the ethics and morals of those who run the company... unlike a certain company that earns millions a month and is only building a nuclear plant... and that prefers to make their games worse because they have guaranteed income...

[@Atmo-sp]

If the point was to discourage whaling, dupes would not exist in the first place... If dupes exist its for baiting people to spend for them.

[@cluelessman3745]

​@Atmo-sp or make it not feel like a waste when you get a character multiple times, because at least they get a small boost to their power

[@Atmo-sp]

@ You are just going down into the same system. So what happens when you already have all the possible dupes of the char ? Yeah you receive currency... you coud do that from the start and not create the dupes system at all. In fact why there is a 50/50 and possibility to have the char multiple time in the first place ?

[@EsDestroyer]

Stix when people say you don't need dupes in Enfield I think they mean it doesn't 10x your dps like in genshin/wuwa/zzz/hsr etc.

[@Stixxy]

Oh I'm aware, but you don't (typically) need dupes in any major Gacha game to clear content. It's always just a bonus, independent of magnitude.

[@ardee9337]

​@@SoraClontz hahaha true but at least they balance it with how generous they are

[@SilverKarma]

obsession of some people with getting dupes has made me realise that there should be something done for them even if its stupid and they can get dupes as off banner. Especially in future limted banners that might come.

[@taufikalifio2007]

Hoshimi Miyabi from ZZZ Dupes are broken especially 1 & 2 Mindscape are really game changer because its literally 2x the dps output.. on the other side endfield more friendly for F2P Player and the gamble for the dupe are just whaler problem IMO while the F2P just will be happy to get the base character

[@qwp1026]

Indeed, I also think they meant the dupes doesn't change the kit. Which transform the character into a totally new enabled form. I think players are too used to the normalization of breaking a character's kit apart into their dupes.

[@maxygbr]

A huge point to contest is the fact that, unlike Hoyo, WuWa and others, the operators ARE NOT time limited, you can get them as off-banners after the banner is over. So it is fine to skip some banners if u cant guaranteed 120 pulls. Also, since all summons always going to be an Operator u can survive skiping cuz the newbie banner will provide u a lot of Operators to get u started

[@hermanwillem7057]

ya that's the common way in AK, save for guaranteed or limited bcs spook happens. even if you never get one after so long time in spook you can eventually buy them at shop with in game currency

[@bunnyx2819]

It's the same as Guardian Tales and Aether Gazer.

[@chill4r585]

@@hermanwillem7057 dude herman my guy I see you everywhere,

[@Duwung]

still, obtaining them that way is borderline impossible, but I suppose an occasional spook is nice

[@renegeeder]

@@Duwung I would love for them to do the upcoming system that Girls Frontline 2 has, where you can have a 50/50 for standard banner. Would still take awhile, but you can actually get what you want at some point.

[@McKarter]

A number of points: 1. Arknights have been able to earn millions with basically the same system ( i sure trust that i dont need to elaborate the system). As long as Gryph cooks with Endfiled as well as they do with og Arknights, it will be able to do well 2. The popular "hoyo system" as i'd call it, has a very nice Guarantee after failing the 50/50. It's repeatable. But at the same time, it's also a lot more subtly predatory, as the temptation of a guarantee will make spenders spend more and ALL characters are limited. In the Arknights games, frugality is encouraged. The usual stop is at mostly just 120 pulls. It can be subjectively bad for sure, but objectively it's relatively spender-friendly as well since dupes are not game-changing, and most of the characters get added to the standard spook pool (exceptions at least in AK are anniv, half anniv, and cn new year) 3. Punishing Gray Raven has GUARANTEE at 60 pulls. No 50/50 gamble at most. Guardian Tales has a wishlist system for any units that are not collab. Cygames have games that are very generous (and even the occasional better base rates, period). The problem here is that a lot of complaints come from people whose main (and probably only) measuring stick is the hoyo system, so anything that diverges even a bit from it automatically feels worse. Heck, an Azur Lane player can get a lot of characters just from everyday play. The Hoyo system is an alright one, but it's far from the best. It's successful and it prints money, but it's not bcs of how good it is, it's how subtly predatory it is. 4. In relation to point 3, the hoyo system only feels "good" bcs of the guarantee. The positive experience on the gacha is mostly that guarantee, and not good rates, good pity, nor even a good rate of resource income. 5. In Arknights, we can literally farm for the gacha currency. Endfield is still in beta and its niche, base, is the very thing in og AK that allows us to farm gacha currency. Hopefully there will be a similar system on release (unless it's already confirmed that it wont be in, correct me).

[@hermanwillem7057]

in AK whales go for dupes bcs of very minor buff or for vanity which means spenders might not even want it. in pgr whales rarely don't want at least SSS bcs the rank upgrades can be heaven and earth to f2p. ofc f2p still can clear everything got every char and every weapon if lucky but the dupes aren't vanity. plus they both sell skin more

[@Kyokka]

Arknights has a different system, idk what you mean. There is no 50/50 guarantee in Arknights at all. But we usually get a 6-star operator in 30-50 pulls despite the hard pity set at 99; there are also some banners where you are guaranteed the rateup 6-star the next time you get a 6-star PAST 120 pulls and some banners where you get the desired rateup 6-star at 300 pulls regardless of whether you got it before, it's just a guft for 300 pulls on the banner. We also have a spark system for old limited 6-stars. Anyway, it's rather different compared to the one described in this video.

[@famiartz]

@@Kyokka its the same gacha system, just changed a bit of rates and that 50/50 for endfield, if anything endfield gacha system is better than our current OG arknights gacha system

[@HyperOpticalSaint]

What a loads of BS, in Arknights your chance is 2%, and most up is not 50/50% but rather 70%.

[@DaedLizrad]

Dude when I came from Punishing to Wuwa I was agast that people were calling the gatcha generous. Coming for a 60 guarantee to an 80 fifty fifty, seeing the weapons cost 80 instead of 30. I was in a very nice bubble at the time and honestly I'm still extremely disappointed in kuro for being so insanely predatory compared to their previous game, just because its better than genshin doesn't mean it's not foul and scummy of them.

[@Cayfur-kh1mk]

Your poll is not gonna mean too much. Because I played wuwa, I play arknights, and my vote would change based on the game. In wuwa, yeah I would go for dupes sometimes, but in arknights, pretty much never unless I LOVE that character. If you let arknights players vote, the result will probably be like 10% to 90% maybe even more uneven. Endfield dupes are not that huge change to operator just like arknights. I myself wouldnt go for dupes in endfield neither.

[@hermanwillem7057]

we let dupes come in by themselves

[@famiartz]

@@hermanwillem7057 passive income for real

[@JAzure-hk1sx]

Don't remind me, irene keeps coming to me since spec alt banner came...... and if i had to total it, twas aroud 21 irene, per this moment

[@dalgona4819]

Heck I rarely pull for dupes (the only one I'm committed to do so is Executor bc he's my favorite) but I ended up with a Silverash max pot anyway bc he's been at the shop often, not to mention Recruitment and Standard banner drops.

[@redn9215]

I think it's also better to line that up with a poll on how many people actually have/are willing to pull 240 times or higher in one banner. I bet there are a lot of people who aren't even spenders and haven't had the luxury of doing that amount of pulls that say they want dupes.

[@KazuoSanVT]

Hey Stix just wanted you to fill you in on what OG AK players mentality wise: ( Since It's the CBT and Surtr is the first banner I'm not 100% sure if they'll implement this but it's worth to look into since they're made by the same company) 1. Dupes aren't important ( Most people Max Potential their characters because they're simps ) for example I Max Potentialed someone in 320-350 Pulls just a few months ago or because they drew the character ( like how Namie max pots her children every time ) 2. Limited Operators that you didn't get gets released in the future as someone you can 'spark' for ( Meaning. They're in the shop and they cost around 300 Currency. You get that currency by rolling on the current limited banner ) So let's say you wanted the current featured banner and someone you missed last few months or a year ago. You will do 300 rolls. You get the featured character guaranteed. And then you get 300 Currency to Recruit any past Limited Operator. If you don't roll enough to get 300 Currency it gets converted into material currency which you can just buy high tier materials to level up your operators 3. In AK It's more like a 70/30. Not a 50/50. So It's easier yes, but Endfield still in Beta so idk maybe they change maybe not who knows. But as someone who's used to the AK system and not the Hoyoverse System ( I have played Genshin from day 1 until 4.0 ). It makes sense to just only need 1 copy of the Operator and if you want to do the max potentials it's because you're an omegasimp. I will very much prefer a gacha game that says "Hey. Just do 120 and you don't need to max unless you like this character' than dupes being a necessity to make the character powerful. It makes it F2P friendly as long as you play the game. 4.The OG Arknights makes money on skins too, which idk if they will do on Endfield. But If I ever do spend money, Arknights is the only gacha game my mind has clarity on that it'll be money well spent. They use it to fund their Music Company KEKW and give us amazing content trailers such as Yostar giving characters 3D Models for anniversary streams, a grand concert once a year and they also hire a lot of community members such as Lappy and Wheels to make either ingame content such as soundtracks or trailer material such as animations. tldr: - dupes r not important at all - theres a catch up system for limited operators you missed - hypergryph doesnt want ur money kekw - they spend the money they get from players well

[@ZetaZeds]

IIRC Enfield base is 0,8% AK is 2%

[@zynczinc1443]

​​@@ZetaZeds AK has 2% because at launch, they already has 100+ characters waiting to be pulled from gacha. If AK EN has that 2% rates with that measly 15 ops at launch, holy luck you getting surtr, ember, lifeng, etc left and right. No one gonna swipe or even play the game 😂

[@magvity7452]

8:40 bro that's totally your own fault if you don't even go to check the gacha details and just make assumptions

[@Stixxy]

100%. And that will deter many new players - to Gacha games in general, or to Endfield. I'm advocating for the game's success here, making it unintuitive does nothing to help the game succeed.

[@Tiypo1337]

@@Stixxy I think that's what new players from Hoyoverse will think, not players from Arknights. Unlike Hoyoverse, most of the highest rarity characters ARENT limited, after their rate up banner they go into the general pool. For example; as a "dolphin" player you don't need to get potentials for Laevtain, you just get the first copy and let additional ones just spook you later while saving more gacha currency for the rare ACTUALLY Limited character.

[@Zefiris8]

As a small dolphin, I saw the 120 pity and thought it was great. I just want the character. The no carry over just means you need to actually think a little and plan, right that impulsive gambling addiction 😅. After doing 120 pulls to pity for Surtr, along with quests, I had enough currency to also do 80 pulls to pity the banner weapon. Seems pretty good, depending on income from dailies, events, swiping conversion etc

[@dalgona4819]

yeah that's honestly what I'm waiting to see with Endfield. If it follows the same rewards system as OG Arknights (dailies, weeklies + annihilations) this would be the most friendly gacha system to date.

[@alfabeta6894]

If all characters go to the sandart banner, its already a better system that Hoyo's one In Arknights 1y characters are still getting buffs (with the modules) to be stronger to be usable in harder/newest events, that means all characters have a vallue (If they follow this system) All players that know to save are gonna be much more rewarded than in other gachas thanks to the pity, just like AK Dupes from characters ofc increase the dmg overall, but is not like in other games that the multipliers from dupes are REALLY gamechanging, here are good but not necessary In weapon banner you garantee 2 6* weapon PER MONTH, and overall, you should probably get 5 weapons in total with 80 pulls thanks to the high chance of getting them Loosing a 50/50 in other gachas is meant to be a bad thing, but if all characters are going to standart, you can literally loose the 50/50 with the new character from the last banner, so losing 50/50 is not a bad thing, actually can be pretty good This game is not meant to have max dupes charac/weapon, this game intention is to have a big roaster of characters and weapons, just like in normal AK, ofc maxing characters with all their dupes are gonna make them stronger, but thats not the main point of the game (Edit) Also, to get a characters with their weapon just gonna take you 120 pulls (Bc the weapon banner pulls are free as I said), in Wuwa you need 240 to guarantee, even if they you win 50/50, you still need 160 to get the weapon and the character

[@InaNaliba]

Sorry for correction, but weapon in wuwa is guaranteed in 80. There's no 50/50 on weapon banner.

[@alfabeta6894]

@InaNaliba I wanted to say that you still need 160 pulls to guarantee weapon even if you win 50/50, I'm sorry if I didn't explain correctly (Not first lenguage)

[@InaNaliba]

So what you mean is 160 pulls are for characters and weapon?

[@alfabeta6894]

@@InaNaliba 160 to get both, in case that winning the 50/50 on character

[@mencaihaha]

@@InaNaliba Weapon already free in endfield you can farm at weekly or pull characters get the pull ticket. You can get 1 weapon and use essence to max the dupe buff no need pull another weapon dupe to get max stat, if official lunch no change this system

[@Berlan_NRML]

Whaling on AK:EF : oh where my guarantee?? Whaling on AK : i got Pot 6 Kirin x Yato

[@ARKMerry]

Yeah I can't deny the polls, 40% are willing to pull for dupe, but they are CONDITIONNED to do so, with the big games out there, players are almost forced by the game or by the communities to search for dupes. I played Genshin for 3 years and Wuwa for 6 months for the big exemples and yeah their dupe systems tempting players to search for it bcs it's making the character way way stronger that the base one, and since both are action/fight based game ofc stronger the character , better is to get dupes even more if the game have powercreep or meta locked endgame. Of course you technicaly don't need dupes in those games, but they try hard to make it feels that you need them and majority fall for it, that's the difference Stix. Now we should convince people that dupes in Endfield are exactly the same kind as OG arknights they're so bonuses, almost superficials!! and no the excuse of: "But I love the character so I better get some dupes" is purely brainwash, ->you love the character, you pull it once, play and enjoy it on the field and you're done! That's shouldve been this from the beginning! HG is making a game f2p friendly and less whale friendly, yeah dupes still a thing but since "limited" characters after their LTO banner ends goes to the standards so you can get spooked by the old limited after their banners ends, exactly like OG Arknights does, and that's perfect. The game is not combat based to begin with, so why sticking so much with the dupes part? Stix you know a lot about gacha games, probably the CC who knows everything about them more than 99% of players, you know the revenues for a lot of them, for exemple, you know perfectly that OG Arknights even after 5 YEARS (for a tower defense chibi game!) still making huge money profit and not because it's predatory but because the game still maintain hype and release outstanting content since the beginning. For the weapon banners you're right, absolutely a good system, this is so much f2p friendly, weapons are given at this point. And it's seems that they tend to do the same thing with Endfield, bringing fresh air to gacha players by changing the rules established by the other giants of this industry. So personnaly I've faith with what HG is gonna do with Endfield, not a single doubt.

[@박주현-y2m]

I agreed

[@t.d.bloodrune422]

Approved

[@Ken-lv4ww]

Stix I love your stuff but I wish you do read more into the banner details, because it never specified that this unit is a limited unlike other CBTs for other gachas they do mentioned that the unit is limited. Plus on the official endfield survey when you press on the second banner it will give a set of answers on what you liked, one of them says it having surtur on in the pool.

[@Stixxy]

I’m using the term “limited” because she’s the banner character on display - the one you win like in traditional limited banners. It’s just common terminology! Sorry if it’s confusing lol

[@Ken-lv4ww]

@Stixxy it really does lessen the blows about the one time guarantee because they will join the standard pool unlike most modern 3D gachas nowadays, where everything must be an limited unit. Honestly it's quite refreshing to see a modern 3D gacha actually dropping that stupid fomo method that hoyo introduced.

[@edwardben-eboh7965]

​@@StixxyI think a better term is featured banner. Like in Sword of Convallaria, there are no limited banners, only featured while Wuwa and HSR have only limited banners and rerun limiteds. Arknights' anniversary banners are limited while the standard banner is featured

[@alilo3373]

THE WAIT IS KILLIN ME, I can't wait to get my hands on this stunning masterpiece.

[@Stixxy]

I'm loving it man!

[@KareemT11]

Trapping myself in a giant freezer. Remember to pull me out day of release please and thank you

[@chill4r585]

bro is me, me is bro

[@Zerdfon]

ah yes , a game that don't want you to gamble more than is should is bad and a game that want more money from you is good ( genshin ) explained why dupe is bad to people with addiction is like teaching a fish to walk on land. " why is it bad ?" - dupe has no significant impact on your game , your character already at peak performance with 1 copy with P5 ( E5 or C5 in hoyo and wuwa game term ) is only increase another 20-30% overall power. they ignore and still want dupe even though we explain to them that dupe is not like other gacha game. "if it bad why is there a dupe system in the first place ?" , is because all the new character release will be put into the rate off of future banner after the banner end , so they make dupe somewhat useful to not be wasted . "does the game hate money?" well shit they do , they hate money in the first Arknights game , make ton of cool new outfit in ambience synesthesia ( basically is a concert ) and non of them become skin . "how can they make money with this gacha system" , some whale willing to spend money for the gacha but they make most of the money from other source like merch , collab banner , skin , monthly card , Pack , concert and other "EOS in 1 month with no whale." funny that the OG arknights also has this system for 5 years and the game still running , making collab (R6S , Monster Hunter , Limbus , Destiny 2 , with lot of IRL collab ) , anime , concert , fest and 4 game ( Arknights , Ex Astris , Popucom and Endfield ) , yep the game is dying like Genshin i guess. oh did i forgot to mention the SKIN is FREE ? only 2 skin so far is 30$ and the rest is can be brought with in game currency , some even free skin

[@enz3107]

The 120 guarantee carrying over would be really good. As for the dupes, maybe they can reuse the spark system from OG AK. You get one token per pull and if you have 300 of those tokens, you can buy the limited character and the previous limiteds. And just like in OG AK, if they become an old enough unit, their cost would go down from 300 to 200.

[@shangri-la-la-la]

We will see. There is also another factor in the FTC forcing a settlement with Cognosphere Over Genshin effectively having a predatory gatcha system targeting children and deceptive pricing strategies. That might cause a few changes to Endfield's gatcha system since this is still in beta.

[@thuantruong501]

I'm sure they will have that system when the limited drops, people are just freaked out since they are not used to Arknight Gacha system yet. Poor thing that Arknight used to be the best gacha system we had before Genshin, before Arknight every gacha is so shit with no Pity, No guaranteed, No increasing rate, either you allin and pray for the best or stop to cut loss. Genshin literally defined the Gacha genre with it system and any new game either follows Genshin's path or cant survive. Edit: and for dupes, NO Arknight doesnt need dupe and as far as I see, Endfield also doesnt. The bonus is just "nice I guess" but not neccessary and able to change the outcame of said Operator. Even old Genshin the constellations were shit until they forced us to C1-C2-C6 to unlock 100% of that Characters. And usually you gonna Pot6 standard Operators along the way just like Qiqi in Genshin.

[@lesath7883]

That would be a very good system.

[@hermanwillem7057]

well so far no limites so we can't see that system

[@1HistoryDragon]

This system is suck. As AK's player from first released I still miss limited character. That's why I laugh so hard with anyone complained about Endfield gacha system. If you want guarantee carrying then the pulls will increase to 180 or higher.

[@АлексейМаслов-р1я]

Dupes in Endfield give you a nice little bonus, but you can live without it. Like in the OG Arknights. Dupes in Hoyoverse (or GFL 2) games hides or a new mechanics for a character or almost 30% increase of overall performance on C2. To be able get guarantee at 120 (!) pulls and don't need to spend money on weapon banner? (!!) Well, i don't know about you, but in my book it's a win. I have only two problems right now: 1: Guarantee don't transfer to the next banner. 2. I don't know whic characters will be in the next year)

[@grymns]

From what I've heard, as long as they don't make the dupes super strong or make the characters feels incomplete without it, then it'll be the best gacha system, but if it does though, it'll be the worst ever

[@hermanwillem7057]

don't worry og AK player gonna be the first the riot if that happen especially cn player.

[@Reldan]

​​@@hermanwillem7057Yeah the CN playerbase is massive and very vocal. When they didn't like the art or lore importance behind a summer limited alter they organized and came up with a manifesto of a dozen+ demands for HG. HG actually ended up doing more than half of them and Lowlight apologized to the community.

[@SapphireYuna]

Enfield is going to be the first gacha game where I'm going to save save save save SAVE SAVE SAVE SAVE SAVE............. no pulls. I have always wanted to do this but I'm too lazy to create second accounts for gachas I already have progress on so endfield would be a good one to do it on.

[@renjirone]

yup and that's the only way to get the guaranteed if you're a f2p.

[@StraytheSkies]

same i always say that then never do it

[@Incorretc]

I was losing braincells when I read the complaint on reddit

[@akvirr7102]

I think u missed the point about requirement of dupes in endfield, sure u don't need dupes in other gachas as well, but they are much more impactful - they are either changes gameplay of a character so significantly that it fills much more interesting/easy to play, or significant boost in dmg, to the point where just one dupe in other gachas can surpass dmg increase from maxed dupes in endfield. So when people say that u don't need dupes in ak they actually mean u don't want them, besides this system very similar to their original game, and there they milking whales by releasing characters in a pace where as f2p u could guarantee around 1/4 of new characters and releasing 4-5 double reruns between every new character

[@Atmo-sp]

If they are so uninteresting why do they exist in the first place ? Because people will pull for them, whales will pull for them even if they give almost nothing because people like to have the complete package. So yes some people will wants dupes no mater what and they will face the (almost) worst predatory system to have them.

[@akvirr7102]

@Atmo-sp i assume u never pulled for dupes, cuz it seems u never experienced that temptation to spend a little bit of money to get that precious dupe that will change everything. Smth like 3% dps increase without any gameplay improvement in a game where most of the dmg comes from mechanics anyway just not interesting enough to get that dupe. If anything guarantee for subsequent dupes will only make people more frustrated, cuz spending 100-200$ just to get improvement that u won't even be able to see, doesn't feel good at all

[@Atmo-sp]

​@ So the idea is to make people not spend 100-200$ for "nothing" but spend 2k$ for "nothing" ? I don't understand your logic here. If the idea is to remove incentive for people to spend money for dupes then why dupes exist in the first place ? They could have not created them and no one would want to pull. Why do you find it ok to screw up this part of the players that will want dupes just to have their character at the top (evven if its just 3%) ?

[@akvirr7102]

@Atmo-sp you right in one thing, you don't understand my point. Whether it's addicted whales or f2p, nobody gonna pull these dupes, except mb cc's, it hard to explain filling, it's like explaining concept of perspective to blind

[@Atmo-sp]

@@akvirr7102 If nobody are going to pull this dupes, just remove them, wtf is that logic ?

[@aidenhogan6093]

the only thing about the gacha system i didnt like is that it doesn't carry over

[@Stixxy]

Same here!

[@joaoribas2932]

The 120 can not carry over because is not a "pity" it is a "guarantee" because you did not get the rate up character until now, example, if you fail 10 times until 119 and stop, you should not be able to hold on this pull to guarantee the next character banner in only one single pull, unlike other gacha the 120 does not reset when you got a high rarity character

[@hunafazaky]

@@joaoribas2932 What's the difference? In the end I'm forced to not chasing anyone until I have 120 pulls. To skip my favorite characters entirely just because I'm broke... what a cruel world... 😭😭

[@maxygbr]

​@hunafazaky its fine to skip, cuz the Operators, unlike Hoyo and WuWa, are NOT limited, after the banner is over they go in standard poll where u can get them as offbanner. People are not talking about this enough, THIS ISNT GENSHIN,

[@NightMare-ti6sn]

​@@hunafazaky The difference is thay you still have the 80 pity with guaranteed 6*, you might be lucky enough to get them with that. If your history with gacha is bad, you're right, you need to skip everything until 120

[@LostWallet]

for people who think that "losing 50/50 over and over again is imposible". let me remind you that the Staff of Homeless incident exist

[@Gunkan22]

4:05 Arknights made an estimated $355 million in 2024. Same gatcha system and seems like they are making plenty of money to continue to invest in the game. Pretty good for a non-3D top down tower defense game.

[@bravo6going702]

Well, its actually fine cause unlike GI, hsr, wuwa 95% of the characters here are standard characters, in other words they get added to the standard poll after their first banner, so u can get them at any point in the game. Thats why the gurantee not carrying is reasonable, if it is, how tf are they gonna run the game with no money coming in.

[@Kalutikat]

Yeah I think their aim is to keep 50/50 losses as somewhat valuable, even if you got x strong unit getting their dupes is still gonna be a bonus.

[@thuantruong501]

Arknight made money by selling Costumes and selling mostly Monthly Pass. The game is very F2P Friendly and punishs you hard if you try to whale. The bonus of whaling and Pot6 said Operator also not that much. You can hardly see the different. Just so you know we dont even have the guaranteed for rate up standard characters in Arknight. It is pure 50/50 at around ~50 pulls for soft pity to proc. Since Endfield significantly decreased the rate (from 2% to 0.8%), they add the 120 guaranteed to have a threhold. Also Arknight sells tickets for guaranteed characters, either you random from a small pool or straight up pick the one you like. This system only for kinda old characters, like at least 1~2 years old. And usually only sold in Anniversary or New Year.

[@lesath7883]

LLSIF had only promotional event cards as limited. All others could be pulled from the standard banners. ...... that did not mean you would EVER have enough pulls to get all the cards. So, the characters remaining behind a limited banner or not does not change the fact that not carrying over pity and limiting the guarantee to just one pull is more predatory than the alternative that, ironically, has become an industry standard for gachas.

[@hermanwillem7057]

​@@lesath7883i mean what game other than pgr that let f2p get everything? and pgr can only do that bcs the SS+ rank actually game changing (even if not needed by f2p) other than just, vanity, collection.

[@bunnyx2819]

​@@hermanwillem7057Urm, I would like to introduce you to a game called Guardian Tales. :D

[@shidoph707]

Regarding the dupes in AKEF and saying that they are "big" buffs to the operator is such a misleading information to the viewers especially to the players of GI and WuWa who actually think the dupes in their game are actually big because they really are, especially GI constellations. When you get the operator in AKEF they already operate at 90% capacity compared to GI and WuWa where the difference of a 0 copy character and max copy character is night and day or heaven and earth, now that is "BIG". For players of those games, gamebreaking buffs are also considered the equivalent of "big" buffs. Saying that getting dupes in AKEF is not necessary (which is really not necessary) then continuing to say the same thing to GI and WuWa will make players think that the magnitude of dupes in AKEF to GI and WuWa are the same, which in reality is not. Even if you show the players how much the dupes add in AKEF, but then also saying that they are "big" buffs will really make players think that "oh, so those really are considered 'big' buffs in this game huh". You must really be careful and responsible on your wordings because some people on the gacha space will take an opinion of a CC or a reddit/twitter post and make it their own opinion without doing their own research on the game or make their own thoughts on the game in order to shit on the game. You can't even deny this because this shit happens everyday on the net and just recently people jumping into conclusions that the gacha system in AKEF is the worse, even worse than the hoyoverse system (which is just preposterous to listen at) when in actually it's not (except for the whales which I will elaborate on why later). You didn't even mention that the operators in AKEF are not limited, their banners are just considered as rate up banners and the operators will be added in the standard poll once the banner ends. Stix, you played OG AK, you should already know how the gacha system works in that game and seeing that it's somewhat similar to AKEF. Leaving one vital information on the gacha system in AKEF will make some players think that the operators are really treated as limited like in Wuwa or hoyoverse games. If they plan to add limited operators in the future I bet they would also add the spark system, the fact that limited operators only appear three to four times a year already speak waves on OG AK system. I understand your opinion about the guarantee not being carried over, but that's not really an issue compared to the other one I'm gonna mention later. Saying that would ultimately mean that you want both the pity and guarantee to be carried over, since those two are treated as two separate things. At that point they should just give us every operator in each new banner cycle for free if we can just get them by sheer effort and no saving up like skipping a banner or two even after knowing the fact that the operators are not treated as limited characters in this game and you could get spooked by a previous banner operator through an off rate pull. You know Stix that even with the gacha system that OG AK currently has, they still make alot of monthly revenue, even more than WuWa. Even I was shocked when I first heard about it considering what kind of game OG AK is compared to WuWa. They make alot of monthly revenue not because they are predatory where you can't guarantee a dupe in the gacha system, it's because they are generous in the game especially to f2p players where you really don't need to spend any money to have almost all the operators in the game if you just played long enough. It makes players want to spend on it because they want to help the game and they think that the money they spend on OG AK actually goes far. It's a collective agreement within the OG AK community that Hypergryph hates our money especially to the fact that they don't release the skins they present on Ambience Synesthesia where they could have made alot more revenue if they sell it in the shop but they don't, even that OG AK still gets a ton of monthly revenue, why is that? You should know that by now Stix. Your take on the weapon banner, good, nothing to disagree on, especially since it's the most f2p friendly compared to other big gachas. Now for the real issue the gacha system has, and that's solely dupe acquisition, because of the fact that there's no guarantee after the 120 pulls, which is a real shame. But knowing that the operators are not treated as limited characters and that they already operate at 90% capacity once you obtain the operator is not really that big of a deal. It's the one of the most f2p friendly gacha system out there but at the same time, it's punishing for whales, that's the entire summary on what the gacha system is in one sentence. The game literally forces us to be frugal with our money and not spend it stupidly.

[@devastator55]

8:30 Incorrect. Every other guarantee like 80 pull or 5* star every 10 pull carries over to another banner. Only 120 guarantee does not carry. It literally says so if you read full text on timestamp. If you do 90 pull, the 10 extra pulls you already did will carry over into next banner and next 50/50 will happen at 70, not 80.

[@Stixxy]

That's what I said. The next banner does not carry over the guarantee. At 8:30 I was referring to the guarantee, not the 80 50/50.

[@TheRealTimeline]

As a F2P player, I do pull for dupes for character I like, but I like for the dupes to be worth the investment. Endfield seems pointless, like putting aside the no guarantee issue, why would you pull for dupes in this game? The dupes do almost nothing.

[@shinda69]

Yep. Dupes do almost nothing. They might put the dupes in game just so when you got multiple, you can still put it into good use (small buffs) along with other stuffs. I got a lot of maxed pot characters in og AK from spooks. So specifically going for max pot means you just simply love the character or a whale collector. Basically, this game favors the f2p players.

[@tiliaoliveri6066]

the more i read the detail of endfield's gacha banner, the more I see the similarity to the current debut/featured banner from arknights.

[@isidroduarte8942]

I pull for dupes only if it’s my favorite character or if it’s to make the character broken. I usually get pulls by failing my 50/50s. I’m looking at you Verina, S3.

[@Stixxy]

Yup, I pull for dupes if I know it's a character I'll be using for a long time!

[@joni33333]

​@@StixxySou you don't pull for dupes in hsr I guess

[@jm0062]

​@@StixxyBut the difference is that dupes actually matter in every other gacha except Endfield. They greatly increase a character's power and unlock new gameplay mechanics. In Endfield all you get is the same exact gameplay but with slightly better numbers.

[@RejectedInch]

Same, mate. I only go for dupes on characters that either i really like or make my like easier in general ( crying in S3 Lionboy)

[@Roberto-n3s3h]

Okay, so do correct me if I'm wrong, but analysing the worst case scenario in endfield gacha means that at 360 pulls you have 1 guaranteed character from the banner and 4 extra 50/50s(at 80,200,280 and 360) and in a hoyo game you would have 2 guarantees and 2 extra chances(at 90 and 270). so on average both would have 3 of the banner character and Endfiled would even have one extra 6 star just for the fun of it. And this is ignoring the fact that soft pity starts sooner in endfield and the fact that dupes are less important and that weapon banner are another currency. that is to say that this system is better on average even if you are a whale, sure you can get unlucky, but this system still seems better imo.

[@Andereshin]

You also can said you need one less copy of the character 5 dupes vs 6 dupes...

[@Razor4884]

If you keep losing the 50/50 after the guarantee, chances are you're probably losing it to characters you also want dupes for anyway. That's been my experience, at least.

[@Stixxy]

Haha not for me in WuWa. Stupid Encore and Jianxin!

[@kevingraham4736]

Just make the guarentee reset. But higher, from 2nd on its 160 instead of 120. They lose nothing and it prevents rng hell

[@KuniaccNiNo]

Who would guess that we would face a problem where spending less was an issue, first time i've seen people worried about whales lmao. Also, i don't pull for dupes, and you said some games doens't need then, but they have some abilities tied to it. so you actually need a dupe for "complete skill".

[@Ken14112]

If the game can maintain its quality and keep players engaged, this gacha system will really benefit the game's long-term. Because most players can't build their characters too quickly and get bored. From what I see, they might trying to balance gap between free-to-play players and paying players, I guess.

[@jerryjellyshow8193]

And it also helps keep the powercreep low and make the game more long-living

[@edgewalker00]

Coming from Arknights, the only time HG needs people's money is during the true limited banners. featured and standard banners mean nothing to them. the monthly subs and whatever they sell in the shop have sustained the game for a very long time.

[@vanschia]

if you want dupes, you can just buy the Characters in the shop with Guarantee Tickets, just wait for them to rotate in shop

[@moonrabbit1715]

or maybe you get the 120 guarantee again when banner reruns

[@virgondust]

@@vanschia or get them when you lose a 50/50 on a different banner

[@vanschia]

@@virgondust yeah, I have like several max pot 6* in arknights just from off-rate

[@offnet6934]

This dups are best thing i have seen in new gacha. No new mechanics, no new synergies, no quality of life only stupid 10-20% a dup. Not "at least 1/3 of kit is in dups" like everything after GI (Even in wuwa you are better to build high than wide)

[@aterees]

There are QoL, but not game changing. And it is like 15-20% of overall increase for a character with all 5 dupes combined, not one.

[@offnet6934]

@@aterees I mean 10-20% a skill/move. In wuwa and GI this is 60-150% or some 30-40% buff on whole party and change how you play character. Endfield dups look so good, without this "gut character and sell pieces" that GI brought and sadly Wuwa and GFL2 adopted.

[@RejectedInch]

@@offnet6934 all WuWa 5* are fully functional at base ( S0), what are you talking about? Dupes in WuWa serve as power up, in GI more often than not C0 are badly crippled

[@offnet6934]

@@RejectedInch Can play and fully functional is different thing. Shorekeeper is only truly bad and you need only s1. But if you have any mechanic dup they play smother and this is fact. GI is much worse but it is comparing being kicked in shin and jewels, i would like none. In this comparison Endfield is tickling .

[@Kojiro3210]

The point is there is really 0 good reason why they would or should not have a guarantee after failing the first 50/50 after getting to the next 50/50 point. In no game do you really need duoes. They're always the cherry on top that some players want to get. They do make your character stronger. Its VERY subjective the view on dupe strength. some of those in enfield are actually strong, some are just putting on blinders toward them.

[@Reldan]

Dupes in AK are even worse than in Endfield and that game is doing fine. The real whales get all the dupes anyways, and the system feels reasonable enough that a lot of people do very, very well just on the $5 card. The card also gives enough extra paid currency on top of the pulls to get 3-4 skins of your choice a year. It's the best value monthly of any gacha I've played.

[@vanillaflavour447]

so what you want is if you do 80 pull and win 50/50 this banner, you only need 40 pull in the next banner to get guaranteed? and that is assuming you have the worst luck ever. is there any other gacha that do this?

[@kenquanta6761]

There's a lot of comment about what you're wrong about dupes already so I'm not gonna bother repeating them but you are way way wayy wrong about needing dupes to be stronger. You understimated how rare certain power up material are in Arknights (module system) and you have no idea how much those very not-bound-to-character beef up your character if you get them right. Also you can get dupes by not pulling on their banner because they're not limited like those predatory hoyo games

[@Portato19]

"The dupes are not game/character breaking" This is an important part to me as F2P and most F2Ps don't chase for a dupe because it's a waste of currency. I guess they need to implement a system of tokens per class like Arknight OG does. It's making it more flexible for any character you want to increase, not just a particular character on occasion. Probably, people who vote to pull for dupes because they had experience with breaking character after several dupes, in Arknight, it is not a big upgrade

[@Stuffers__]

My main disagreement is that I don't think the 120 guarantee should carry over. More specifically (to my understanding) that banner is a rate up for a STANDARD character that is LIMITED TIME ONLY. For standard characters I think the 120 guarantee shouldn't be viewed as another pity system but rather the mechanic specific to the LTO banner itself. I think that the purpose of the LTO is for players who want a standard character and want a sure-shot way of getting said character. That being said, we still don't know exactly what a proper limited banner would look like. However I do find the concerns about losing 50/50s constantly to be completely understandable, as this has happened to me before. So let's hope they find a way to implement a guarantee/pity/cushion for the limited characters.

[@zetho807]

4:35 counter argument, yes in general you do not need dupe in gacha game but the problem is when the dupe give your character performance boost from 25 to 50% then thats make dupe become essential but in endfield or arknight dupe is irrelevant. and lets not forget if you compare the gacha system like wuwa or hoyo endfield didn't have weapon gacha banner (technically have but the currency for it is from you pull the char). so for me the 120 not carry over is a fair trade where other you have to put 180 for char and another 180 (worse chase scenario) for weapon oh and another thing we dont know if the char from the rate up will be limited or when the banner ends will it be put in standard banner pull if it is then losing 50/50 in the future not to bad actually

[@Reldan]

Unless they change from beta (doubtful) the banner character is going into the pool afterwards just like AK.

[@bakaoniichan193]

contrary to other gacha games, in endfield the limited banner characters like Surtr do NOT leave until the rerun occurs. An official survey revealed that there is "a chance to optain Surtr during Headhunting on the Yvonne banner". (which also confirmed a Yvonne banner after Surtr's ends) So Surtr and future new units can just spook you during your pulls as a off-rate. This is obviously just a nice to have addition and even less reliable with time, but it can lead to fun surprises for people who missed a new character before Also, I won't debate your point about dupes, some people just want them. But the dupes you went over are almost all very situational. "10% BASIC ATTACK dmg on Gilberta if she doesnt get hit" might not help you much, if most of her damage comes from her skill and ult for example

[@Stixxy]

Very true about situational usage. The reasoning for me bringing it up was due to the sheer volume of people saying they “provide no benefit,” and I wanted to provide evidence to the contrary - however large or small. And that’s surprising to hear about the survey info! Thanks for letting me know!!

[@Ldrago_K2]

I think in general gacha players will have hard time to resist pulling on banner untill they have 120 pulls, because if you do pull before, loose 50/50 and you can't accumulate 120 pulls in time you can get cooked. By the way the I always immediately pull on banner whenever I have around 80 pulls.

[@NicholasStanley]

The game actually punishing impulsive behaviour lmao

[@jerryjellyshow8193]

But if a game promotes impulsive spending, is it really a "good" game?

[@VanOri]

If this is going to be anything like the OG Arknights (which I think it will be) the banners return in a rotation at some point, characters share other banners or they end up in store to buy out right. There are often multiple ways and or chances to get characters you missed out on, so saving up for banners while skipping others is part of the design

[@cemanz]

I don't understand why are you weighed yourself to the pity that doesn't carry over while you also played the OG Arknights with the same system. I mean if you knew how it works, you should've expect the same is applied to Endfield.

[@GalegoTrance]

I agree that not carrying over pity is weird but preaching in favor of whales is also bad. We should be supporting Endfield for going against the industry standard and trying something healthier.

[@dannyzein6448]

Whales are the one that making your favorite game afloat my guy 😂

[@jm0062]

​@@dannyzein6448And? 99% of players are not whales

[@lesath7883]

The pity not carrying over affects free players more, since whales that fall short 10 or 20 pulls from pity just swipe. So, those who are in higher risk of not pulling enough to get to the pity are those who depend on the free pulls.

[@jm0062]

@@lesath7883 Why would you roll if you can't reach the pity? It's only a 0.8% chance. Roll until pity or don't roll. There's no reason or benefit to roll less than pity.

[@dannyzein6448]

@@jm0062 thats the problem other game we can roll with a care free attitude on this game were force to skip the banner if we cant guaranteed a pity. Like in wuwa i only have 30 pulls and got lucky that i pulled changli. In here? I wont even gonna try my luck until i can guaratee a pity XD.

[@raizenmei]

I agree that it would be nice to have pity carry over, but I prefer having to pull less to get one copy of a character I really like tbh

[@Stixxy]

That’s fine! I also enjoy that aspect!

[@kasmichan]

it seems like the main problem with the gacha is that the "guarantee is not carried over to the next banner".. from what I understand(and i hope it's not the case) is that if you lose 50\50 and don t want to guarantee at 120, in the next banner, your count will reset back to 0 and you need to hit 80 again for 50\50... but i think it's a pretty small issue since if you don't like the banner then save your currency so that if the next banner is ok with you then go get it... in short.. don't waste your currency if you don't plan on getting the character or just building pity.... their banner is a good...pretty good if i do say so myself..120 is very f2p friendly..

[@renjirone]

120 is f2p friendly and everybody agreed on that. however the small issue is still an issue. i believed that what people say its true and able to carry over the 120th guaranteed will boost the gacha system to the next level. I really like Endfield and I want them to be the best in terms of gameplay and gacha system, hence why the recommendation is a good recommendation imo.

[@kaminari3741]

Well, hypergryph hate money. I can't see what will happen despite all the complain because it's still in beta and characters rooster is still small. When Endfield have come around for some time and have a decent amount of characters, I see that one time 120 pull is okay for me for f2p, I'll play this as factory rather than action adventure anyway. So character is subjective for me.

[@renjirone]

yea..its good to have feedback early on since it still in the beta anyway. majority of the feedback also solely came from the guaranteed. Every other aspect of the game are just fine. oh yes, I thought the same also. building factory looks hell of fun and combat is engaging. with that being said, good luck on your Endfield journey ahead.

[@ardee9337]

Endfield along with WuWa should show gacha players that complete, highly effective, fully functional and fun to play characters should be at their base, no dupes required or are only optional additional power ups at the cost of money This would be for the better future of gacha games coming up like Ananta,NTE,Duet Night Abyss, Wang Yue, Azur Promilia and more that gacha games can be successful while not being as greedy and scummy like hoyo games are.

[@richgentleman666]

why are you worrying about companies income again?? bc stop it, they already hired ppl for that, BEFORE the development of this game...

[@nheksh9766]

Not needing dupes on nikke is kinda a wrong argument for the 160 wall xD

[@Atmo-sp]

And their is a competitive aspect in the game so depending on your playstyle you could need dupes even after the wall, just to compete.

[@DiogoVKersting]

I don't think the system is particularly confusing, but it's true, new players will need to learn the 120 pulls doesn't carry over. It is not the end of the world, because it just mean you lost the 40 pulls "discount". An analogy would be a customer that didn't reach the threshold necessary for a buying in bulk discount. It seems Endfield is already being more generous than its peers. If that's the case, it's very unlikely they'll change their minds in the 120 pulls not carrying over. As a matter of business, they just don't have the incentive. As for duplicates. My impression is that on standard gacha, most players will want a wide rooster at first (i.e. just one copy of premium characters), but as players patch up the general weaknesses of their accounts, they shift their focus into hyper-specialization, and that is where vertical investment becomes attractive. If a game's endgame pushes players into vertical investment right off the bat, than players will act on that incentive. However, that is almost never the case. The way gacha sell their characters, is by creating "problems" which are best solved by a specific niche. That's why elemental resistance and penetration are everywhere in gacha. Personally, I don't plan to pull for dupes of 6* in Endfield at first. As getting more C0 characters reaches severe diminishing returns, I'll shift my focus to include dupes for sure.

[@edreenpasang7537]

If I try my luck on 50/50 then lose the 50/50 at 80 pity . but I have not enough pull to get to 120 pull . Then the banner end . So for the new banner now do I lose my chance to get guarantee at 120 pity , or do i need to pull for 80 more pull for guaranteed ?? So if i want a character in a banner I need to make sure I have enough for 120 pull everytime or i am screwed ? We need more info .

[@MarionFR]

Guarantee for character from the banner is separated from pity towards character. Pity just works towards 50/50 without end, if you lose, you again go up to 50/50 and... you can lose again. And again. Guarantee for character from the banner is separated mechanic, tied to current banner. If you pull ON THIS particular banner 120 times, you will get character from the banner. Gacha in Enfield is put on it's head, you pull only if you have 120 pulls. It's simply bad and predatory and we should be asking them to fix this.

[@edreenpasang7537]

@@MarionFR Some people who defend this actually do not understand that some player will try to win a character at 50/50 and if they lose they will stop . Some people are trying to save this way . With this system you are not allowed to save .

[@chronostasisch.7]

@@edreenpasang7537 I literally have seen someone defend this by saying "why are you already planning for future banners when the current banner is active, sounds like you don't want the character anyway if you do that" which is such an illogical argument, like, people don't plan pulls like that because "they don't want the current character anyway" but because they like and want the next character too! Apparently we're not allowed to like and want multiple characters releasing one after another according to this "logic" which is wild to me seeing as we're playing a gacha where the characters are the main appeal for a lot of people

[@MarionFR]

@ 'Wild' is this whole situation where so many people defend so backward gacha rules... If Kuro games don't have such a rule, Hoyo games don't have it, why accepting going back and lower? Why gacha players are not simply collectively asking for what is best for them?... Not mentioning how much it exposes how dum dum gacha players are. Typical arguments are like - it's 120 pulls, so it's less than 160 / 180 in other game!! LMAO, they are so easy to get scammed, practically asking for it

[@chronostasisch.7]

@@MarionFR That's my exact thoughts about this entire situation, "why are these people so eagerly asking to get scammed and exploited??" This system isn't good; there's so many loopholes in it that could be exploited by company greed. HG might be generous for now, but how about in the future? If we just accept this system as-is and they decide they want to get greedy down the line, this system literally enables that kind of greed in spades. So why shouldn't we ask for them to change it to something that wouldn't be as easily exploited? They're putting way too much (almost blind) faith in HG from what I've seen, even I as a so-called Kurobot would NOT just accept it if Kuro ever decides to do this kind of system, and I know the community there will criticize them and push for better change in a drop of a hat. Man, this situation is so dem frustrating

[@hisuijin8038]

I call dupes pay to loose Stronger waifu = shorter fights = less combat in a already easy game Even in Elden Ring when you OP yourself into a spec to the skies, you 2-3 shot bosses , making the fight trivial and boring And gacha games are braindead in terms of skill required

[@digimope]

Imo, I think either they should always carry over the hard cap OR reduce the exchange rate on the certificates to like 200-250. It's important to remember the currency flows at launch, but once we're a month in on the game and you've 100% all areas, currency slows down considerably. As for the weapon exchange. Again, I think banners should carry over and carry between banners. As it's described now, once you trigger pity, you won't get another until banner reset w/ no carry over. And pulls don't count toward other arsenal issue banners. It's still relatively "generous" that you have a weapons exchange to begin with, but I won't ever pass up the chance to ask them to make a good system better.

[@kami761]

In OG AK you also have 1 time guarantee on each character I wonder why whales of this game never complained as much as normies of Endfield. But what can I know, it's not like this is 5 year old gacha we're talking about

[@Kojiro3210]

Correction: Blue archive doesnt do any of that. The loints you obtain when pulling on a banner reset when that banner ends. you either reach 200 and select a current banner character or it all gets converted into silly crafting mat. Eliph camt be used to directly acquire characters, and not all character eliph are made available in shops. BA you just dont neccecarily need dupes of a character. After you get the character, you can use standard Eliph to rank them up. But overall, its the same "have 200 pulls ready or its a huge risk" that is with the 120 from enfield. The good side is there no weapon banner.

[@Stixxy]

I was pointing out the Mileage you can use to purchase a character @ 200. Meaning you can purchase it again @ 400, 600 etc., with a guarantee.

[@lesath7883]

And that is ehy I did not pull in BA. Which means players will learn to not pull in Arknights either.

[@Kojiro3210]

@Stixxy Yea, but those aren't the same as the currecny you get to buy character copies from the shop. Those dont reset when the banner ends. You have infinite time to reach 500 for a character that pops up. Any milage you get pulling on a banner in ba gets wiped when it ends. thsts just the 120 guarantee in place, but with 200. The banners only last 1 or 2 weeks in BA, too, so its a terrible level of FOMO.

[@hermanwillem7057]

​@@lesath7883yeah many do that. didn't matter much tho they still got so much money, BA or AK

[@YukiV7]

People who spend a lot of money on dupes are the cancer of the game.

[@RynnKirin]

Hi, I personally agree with you in the fact that the dupes in endfield still increase a characters power a decent amount, but what makes it different from other games is that dupes don't change your characters kit. In many other games I played, Wuwa, genshin, GFL dupes can make your character work sometimes really differently compared to a 0 copy character. In my opinion that is what makes most people want to pull for dupes, not just the power boost. When you put out a question wether players pull for dupes and 33% of the voters sad yes, I think it was not quite accurate for this situation. You should make a similar poll but with 3 options: No, Yes, Yes only when it changes/upgrades the character kit My prediction is that the prevously 30% who voted yes, will scatter between the 2 yes options

[@Riverfall_]

The question should've been. Do you want to pull for dups? The previous question was. Do you pull for dups because the game forces you to do so?

[@hermanwillem7057]

jump in late to gfl2 and then knowing makiatto dupes change her a LOT really change my opinion on the game

[@kerlarkdgrayman2704]

I see no problem for me with that gacha system(65th and above pull, 6* guarantee). It's almost the same thing when pulling in Arknights and maybe Epic Seven(The 120 guaranteed pull). Still F2P in both games and I like it.

[@ShinichiKudo14122]

you summerized everything pretty well! if they dont want that players abuse the low pity to max dupe characters they could just do a one time 120 pull guarantee and for subsequent 5* it can be increased to 160. so people dont risk losing 10 50/50 in a row.

[@Stixxy]

Thank you! Glad there are others that understand! :D

[@spammerman7556]

It's insane genshin players are so used to abused and exploited they developed a stockholm syndrome and can't play games without the same abusive gacha system.

[@Stixxy]

On the contrary, Genshin's Gacha is atrocious. WuWa's is bad as well. I prefer Azur Lane - every character is free. Or even PGR - where you have a guarantee @ 60 pulls. Both are very f2p friendly.

[@Zora72954]

I mean... arknights has whales...

[@Kojiro3210]

But when the game "gives you every character without spending", why? Could there be some exaggerating the generocity of arknights?

[@rafaelelias2678]

​@@Kojiro3210Limbus Company has whales, PGR has whales, wuwa has whales. Whales spend because they like it/want it and not because they need to

[@lesath7883]

​@@Kojiro3210Technically, all gacha games "give you all characters without spending". But unless the game avtually gifts you the game without use of ANY currency, your argument is void. Arknights will give you some premium currency. You will still need to pull for the characters. Unless you swipe, you won't have all the characters. This is the base of the gacha monetization model.

[@Zora72954]

@Kojiro3210 there's no exaggerating, whales just like the game and pull for characters they love even though dupes barely matter in arknights, all they really do is stuff like slightly increasing attack and attack speed and decreasing DP and increasing deploy speed. So they aren't that necessary. But as the others said. The game doesn't give you every character for free lol, even HG needs to make money

[@Kojiro3210]

So the gist of all these replies is that everyone saying archnights has 0 reason to spend any money to have every charscter is blowing smoke. So theres no reason to be calling this "f2p firendly". And mark my words, my comment was leaning toward that being the case, so @lesath7883 , chill. Thats not the argument i was making and not even how thay reads.

[@vispunk]

For the record: the game will only be more F2P friendly if we have access to a similar amount of pull currency as the other games currently on the market.

[@Millesimia]

I dont know how much you can consider those 37% of ppl Who are used to pull for dupes when games like genshin add so much powercreep to their constellations. I remember trying to pull for more Zhongli because i wanted him to summons more pillar than Just one, that is game changing bro. Idk why ppl are still comparing those two. Worst thing is that i am not a person Who likes pulling for dupes at all, but they baited me to do so with how juicy the constellation were. And i did failed in the end. He was invincible with full constellations my bro, that cannot compare to some juicy stats boost at all. Thus i still dont agree with your argument. Lets not talk about whale. Whales dont care about the system. If they want to spent they Will spend anyway. Its not 500 pulls that Will stop them maybe we should stop talking for them.

[@hiszkia2597]

it's basically them saying "spend responsibly"

[@CyborgNinjaJesus]

No, don't get it twisted, it's them introducing FOMO with the guarantee resetting. Since characters are not limited they want to incite you to spend to not "lose" the guarantee instead.

[@MarionFR]

It's basically predatory

[@johnschwartz-sy3vz]

​@@CyborgNinjaJesusidk man 🗿 since the character are not limited tht means PPL dont have to even worry about skipping a character since they can always spook you if you lost 50/50

[@JamesP7]

@@CyborgNinjaJesus What is there to miss out on? Just get the character later off-banner or in the shop, it's not like anything is stopping you besides a bit of time. FOMO depends entirely on the "missing out" part, and nothing becomes "missing" here in this system.

[@Kairos-t9d]

So basically before you pull on a banner you need to have 120 pulls ready, no impulsive pulls.

[@nv.lil.7]

I don't see any reason why we fussing over this all because it's new to us doesn't mean it's crap

[@WhoamI-td2fq]

I don't know about you, but in FGO, they also have that removed drop rate after getting the servant type of gacha and people still try to pull dupes. Let me remind you that this game need about 330 pulls to guarantee and it also does not carry over to the next banner. Basically, players might still spend to get dupes.

[@MPaz-ART]

Imagine how stupid this is, if that reset system is what prevents Arknights Endfield to break revenu records dethroning Hoyoverse titles and Wuwa 😱🤣

[@titan64xl48]

Considering that we're dealing with people that doesn't read I think they need to add a WARNING when they get to 70PULLS to read and lock it on the screen for 20 seconds to FORCE them to read the specific details 😅

[@noktariso_o1433]

Either pity needs to stay the same every time or they need to allow pity to carry over. I'd maybe attempt a dupe...but I'd feel really bummed if I didn't get it on the 50/50 knowing that the pity doesn't even carry over into the next banner.

[@Where_would_I_go_without_you]

The 2 pity systems carry over, it's the guarantee that resets.

[@Creamiest_Mayo]

The only thing I don't like is that you can fail the 50/50 MULTIPLE times leading up to 120. In hoyo games and wuwa, they state the next 6* after failing is guaranteed to be the rate up. Arknights Enfield doesnt have that at all. Unless I am wrong, please correct me.

[@Barry9-11]

We don't need dups but we need Whales to whale

[@Bylov6812]

dw, we will. Endfield is so good, we're not gonna put down our wallets. And nor will our chinese brothers

[@Stixxy]

37% of people in my poll said they want dupes, that's a pretty decent number.

[@salad771]

​@@Stixxydoes everyone in that 37% whales?

[@aterees]

@@Stixxy Aren't majority of those people plays Hoyo games and was taught to pull for them by constellation system Hoyo created? I wish you could ask only Arknights players to vote coz they have more simular character copy system to AK:E

[@Aqr011]

You underestimate arknights whales, if they are willing to get 5 dupes of a 2d chibi model characters in og Arknights then 5 dupes of 3d model of their favorite operators is nothing expensive for them

[@AW-ht1ly]

I'm sorry, but Mihoyo gacha is waaaaaaaay worse. Also because their weapon banners share the same currency as their characters. What's more egregious is that players have spent thousands of dollars on HSR for bamners, for a turn based RPG. At least Hypergryph/Gryphline are still player friendly with their gacha.

[@Stixxy]

I agree, Genshin's Gacha is atrocious. WuWa's is bad as well. But that doesn't mean Endfield's is good. I honestly prefer Azur Lane - every character is free. Or even PGR - where you have a guarantee @ 60 pulls. Both are very f2p friendly.

[@caseofzero]

I honestly would prefer to not change the gacha system, that's the only way Arknights will earn from this. I dislike the idea of them following the standard gacha system where dupes makes characters stronger, and characters becoming limited. (Note in endfield, the featured character will be added as offrate character, you can buy them in shop for 500 golden ticket, or still pull them as offrate/rerun)

[@chronostasisch.7]

See that's kind of a moot point when PGR's debut banner gacha system exists. The rates there are literally 100% guaranteed in 60 pulls (with the guarantee carrying over AND staying after you get the rate-up character) without 50/50 whatsoever (even in non-debut banner the rates are 70% for characters and 80% for both weapons and CUBs--and you only need 30 and 20 pulls respectively for the pity in weapon and CUB banners), and there's no limited characters aside from collabs AND we get a lot of pull currency just by playing the game, oh ALSO there's even free S-Rank(6*) selectors they give out to players periodically (usually on annivs) just in case you missed a previous character you want and don't even want to try your chances on the 70% banners. How do they earn money, you ask? Whales still exists and they'll pull more on the debut banner to max out the characters because they can and want to (not bc they have to bc we can also just rank-up characters to at least SS-rank from shards in PPC shop and more, and the upgrades you get from maxing out characters isn't a must-have or anything it's just to flex in certain endgame modes where the rewards for the flex-tier is practically the same as lower ones... and you still need to have skill as a player and learn your character kits as well as enemy patterns for these endgame modes), and also skins, PGR has some real high-quality skins ....Excuse me for yapping about another game's system but honestly I think Endfield will benefit more in the long run if they make the gacha system better, it doesn't have to be PGR-level but at *least* making the 120 guarantee carry over wouldn't hurt anyone, not even the company

[@caseofzero]

@@chronostasisch.7 Fair enough, as an old Arknights player it's already been a long time meme that Arknights hated money. Considering getting skins can be farmed, getting dupes isn't necessary. Many whales often cry since even if they spend 500 pulls, a lot still couldn't max the potential of a character. The only reason Arknights even gets revenue is that they have many loyal players who are willing to spend. So I also feel a little conflicted how they can earn if they follow the og arknights system. Though it also makes me really sad if they decided to follow the trend, discarding everything and just go for 50/50 system. (It almost feel like the game is just following the trends)

[@rasugil5832]

I have a question about the weapon pulls, if I get the character in the first, lets say 30 pulls, will I be able to get enough pulls for the weapon? Or will I be punished for having luck and getting the character early? Also, the guaranteed needs to carry over 100%, I get it, it might be an arknights thing, but the pity carrying is a standar nowadays, some things needs to adapt to the actual market

[@johnschwartz-sy3vz]

U can convert your character gacha currency to weapon currency and there's also a game mode tht gives u more weapon currency but i don't have the number here so check it urself Also the new “standard" of carrying the guarantee is one part of the whole system. in exchange of not loosing chance of getting high rarity limited character they locked the rest of the kit in their dupes In other words you will always in a safe place, but the rest of their kit will be locked behind the dupes and bcuz most of them is limited you will have to wait a long time for the rerun In Enfield in the other hand instead of pulling in every banner you have to wait for the banner tht you want/until u have enough for 120 as an exchange of your patience u have all of the character kit the moment u pull them for the first time and in worst case scenario u have enough for the weapon too Also the game rn hinting on adding new character in the gacha pool aka not making them limited so if you lost the 50/50 you will not ended up with the same old character from release of the game. But it still in beta and many things can change

[@rasugil5832]

@@johnschwartz-sy3vz I see, so no matter what I will get my weapon even with just 20-30 pulls? I get that, I'm the type of person who likes to save for the characters I like and get copies (almost impossible to do it here tho), but what happens when you wanna get a low rarity character that has a rate up in that banner too? I like collecting 4 stars copies (or purple, depending on the game), but I doubt the golden characters I like will come with the purple that I want everytime I'm speaking from ignorance, since I didn't get the beta and I'm avoiding every spoiler I can, but the gacha system got me really worried

[@johnschwartz-sy3vz]

@@rasugil5832 yee u can still get the weapon if you get the character early but becuz the rate is 0,8 and the soft pity is start from 65 most of the time u get the highest rarity before u hit the 80 hard pity Now for the character banner we have 3 type of rarity 4*🟣, 5*🟡, 6*🟠 In character banner theres only character no weapon so u can get the 4*🟣 really easy here for 5*🟡 the banner will guarantee at least 1 in every 10 pulls. But beside the rate up tht helping them here, it might take some pulls to get a specific one especially when there's gonna be more and more character tht they will release And it's fine that's why we have community or a simple comment section, it's all for exchange information and sharing opinion

[@johnschwartz-sy3vz]

@@rasugil5832 yee u can still get the weapon if you get the character early but becuz the rate is 0,8 and the soft pity is start from 65 most of the time u get the highest rarity before u hit the 80 hard pity Now for the character banner we have 3 type of rarity 4*🟣, 5*🟡, 6*🟠 In character banner theres only character no weapon so u can get the 4*🟣 really easy here for 5*🟡 the banner will guarantee at least 1 in every 10 pulls, but we only rely on the rate for them. so it might takes some pulls if theres alot of character in the game It's fine tht why we have community and/a simple comment section, to share information and opinion

[@johnschwartz-sy3vz]

@@rasugil5832 yee u can still get the weapon if you get the character early but becuz the rate is 0,8 and the soft pity is start from 65 most of the time u get the highest rarity before u hit the 80 hard pity Now for the character banner we have 3 type of rarity 4*🟣, 5*🟡, 6*🟠 In character banner theres only character no weapon so u can get the 4*🟣 really easy here for 5*🟡 the banner will guarantee at least 1 in every 10 pulls, but we only rely on the rate for them. so it might takes some pulls if theres alot of character in the game It's fine tht why we have community and/a simple comment section, to share information and opinion

[@denisshmyrev5768]

"you don't need dupes in Genshin" Err... No, unless you want to upgrade your character from 60% potential to 80 or 100%

[@phantomblade89]

you don't need it, genshin isn't it hard and don't even bring up sprial abyss what a waste of time.

[@MPaz-ART]

i 100% agree ! imo, that reset system is not benefiting at all to players and also the Arknights company, that reset system will make them loose some significant players and revenu ( i don't mean a lot but who can tell how much anyway, as long those significant players hating that gacha system are not creating an account and spending money to support ) remember Snowbreak day 1 release ? it was appearently not popular enough to make amazing revenu numbers etc, but here is why imo, probably 30 to 50 % of those interessted in Snowbreak realized there wasn't co-op mulyplayer mods available and therefor they quitted, i know because almost all of my friends and social media friends quitted on the same month of release, just a few of us was ok about only solo content until devs later adding co-op content. This obviously means, just because of a smal detail or decision, Snowbreak lost a lot when released the game only because the devs didn' t addapt the game for most types gameplay of gamers. So Arknights reset system will be ok for a lot , but also not ok for several other gamers, that's not clever imo , it's bad buisness. Devs maybe dosen't care because they know a lot of gamers will play anyway, the only way to force devs removing the reset system is by not playing as long they don't removing it, i really don't like that reset system, sooo it's in order to make a fovor to all and including myself, that i will not playing Arknights Endfield OR at least not supporting at all, it's not like Arknights is the only gacha, i'm already playing several good gachas and my time spending is already limited. it means i highly recommand devs to remove the reset because otherwise the game is not worth quitting another great gacha i am already playing, Wuwa, Girls frontline 2, PGR, Strinova, Nikke, Aether gazer, Blue archive and Snowbreak, and several other AAA games. I'm pretty much sure there are a lot gamers limited on their gaming time as i do, soo if Arknights is not making a gacha system that is fair enough, obviously a lot gamers will pass and rater keep playing their other much fair favorite gachas.

[@najihgamer7289]

If I'm not wrong, The gacha sistem following Original Arknights, you don't agree because you're not Original AK player.

[@MPaz-ART]

@@najihgamer7289 you have a point, but all those that could be interessted in this new Arknights and want to give a try probably are not gona like the reset system, and again those are players numbers Arknights company are loosing

[@snappie4180]

I completely agree. I'm not touching it unless they change the guarantee system And if they don't, I don't care that much because these days there are enough gacha games to play.

[@MPaz-ART]

@@snappie4180see ?!?! you and me are an example about what i was commenting, there must be more players that won't like it too and those players could be a significant lost for Arknights company

[@MPaz-ART]

@@najihgamer7289 let's asume Arknights making ( random number ) 2 millions a month, but because of the reset system they loose 200K montly, that's a 2.4 million per year expenssive stupid decision, you maybe thing that's not a lot for a company making millions, but that's money anyway , it's better getting more than less just because of a stupid reset system, and that's just a random number, they probably gona loose more even if the game is an amazing success. Imagine how stupid this is, if that reset system is what prevents Arknights Endfield to break revenu records dethroning Hoyoverse and Wuwa revenu numbers. 😱🤣

[@pokemonhikerchris4839]

At the end of the day it comes down to how many freemium currency they are gonna give out

[@SBTD911]

I don't mind how the gacha turn out to be. Knowing the devs, the game will likely filter out the players by the difficulty and not the gacha. I'm all hands on deck.

[@Akmarillion]

yeah filter out the costumers, soooooo good idea

[@apidgey1791]

endfield: oh you are feeling itchy to pull? gotta get enough for 120 other gacha : oh you only have 1 pull left? try your luck!

[@Atmo-sp]

I never saw a community like that...not just not caring about the gacha system and accepting the bad part like a lot of people were acting with Genshin, no here we have litteraly a big part of the community of this game litteraly fighting against a better gacha system.

[@ziitania9939]

We aren't fighting against a better system, I agree that the 120 would be better if it carried over, but what I feel most of us are fighting against is the idea of including a Hoyoverse gacha system, which is objectively worse.

[@haruusami1831]

@@ziitania9939 More like currently its WuWa improve system, much more forgiving and weap is not 50/50, that's what also some people were hoping. But honestly depends how you look at it, if you're F2P in Arknights, its patience is what you need save 120 pulls for guarantee if you really like the char, and snoop for leaks etc so you can plan ahead. While with 50/50 pity carry over, you can try your luck gambling despite not having the guarantee, if you didn't get the char. that you want (or any 5 star) then doesn't matter cause pity carries over, while for AK better not to try your luck and just save the 120puills if you want the char. early or wait for it to be in regular banner.

[@aru2783]

OG Arknights players tend to be more lenient because they're used to it (n probably understand it better since they've actually experienced it and not merely looking at other people's opinions and posts) and it was never much of a problem unless u rlly want that one waifu/husbando. In OG Arknights you could clear contents in the game- excluding the more difficult seasonal content (Risk 18 CC) -with 4-stars alone. Guides exist for that stuff. I too never had much problem with OG Arknighy's gacha system, while sure it can be frustrating when I fail to obtain the character I rlly want but that's also partly my fault for not doing better at saving my pulls. He'll rerun anyways sooner or later. Characters aren't limited and they'll be added to the standard pool once their debut banner ends. With the exceptions of true limited characters where you can only get them during their debut banner and obtaining them through rate offs in the next limited banner.

[@haruusami1831]

​@@ziitania9939 More like if not most people are probably hoping for WuWa gacha system, its predatory but not by much adding weap is not 50/50. With AK system you would need to constantly save 120pulls because its guarantee it would be a waste to bet on the 80 pity carry over, and constant lookout for leaks etc so you can plan ahead better your pulls or wait for the char. to be in standard banner aka Patience is what you need and depending how generous HG is going to be with rewards etc. While with WuWa system, its dangling you the hope that you can get the char. within few pulls etc, aka try your luck, if you didn't get the char. and don't have any pulls the pity carries over and if you lost 50/50 theirs guarantee you can win the next char. What i find problem is that Arknights players are expecting the game to be same as OG AK, we know it would be different theirs a 3 man team we gotta build and play around the world, so we don't know hows the powercreep etc going to be with Enfield and yes i don't watch the beta etc cause i rather not get spoiled, i want to enjoy the game when it releases.

[@haruusami1831]

@@ziitania9939 More like if not most people are probably hoping for WuWa gacha system, its predatory but not by much adding weap is not 50/50. With AK system you would need to constantly save 120pulls because its guarantee it would be a waste to bet on the 80 pity carry over, and constant lookout for leaks etc so you can plan ahead better your pulls or wait for the char. to be in standard banner aka Patience is what you need and depending how generous HG is going to be with rewards etc. While with WuWa system, its giving you the hope that you can get the char. within few pulls etc, aka try your luck, if you didn't get the char. and don't have any pulls the pity carries over and if you lost 50/50 theirs guarantee you can win the next char. What i find problem is that Arknights players are expecting the game to be same as OG AK, we know it would be different theirs a 3 man team we gotta build and play around the world, so we don't know hows the powercreep etc going to be with Enfield and yes i don't watch the beta etc cause i rather not get spoiled, i want to enjoy the game when it releases. F YT censorship F.

[@froman1522]

Tbh, the only thing they should change is that if you lose a 50/50 at like, 10 pulls, the next 6 star you get regardless if it is at 120, or 40 pulls, it should be the banner character you are going for. For example, if you lose the 50/50 3 times before getting to 120 it isnt overall horrible since that will give you a lot of weapon banner pulls and a bunch of 6 stars, losing the 50/50 3 times in a row would feel really bad af a f2p player. Everything else is fine imo, if the whales want to whale then milk them as much as you want.

[@JamesP7]

I got 4 copies of Lee on the Ling banner, so I just rolled with it as a F2P player. He's honestly a great unit and the dupes actually are valuable for him as a fast-redeploy. So I don't think off-rates will be as bad of a thing in Endfield either.

[@robbiesarkioglu]

Well technically only the misinformed a lot of the Arknights players were trying to explain how HG does things.

[@hessianqrow7977]

Yeah personally I think gow they handled theweapons banner is a smart decision and from rumor we might be able to get arsonal currency in events and endgame content 😊

[@Mysteltaint]

The game has more gameplay experience than gacha. The gameplay has so much depth and stuff to do similar to a jrpg that you stop realizing that there is a gacha.

[@びしゃみみ]

The best business decision is not to milk your clients for every single penny, but make sure they feel good about their purchase so they become regular customers. They know that most of the feels good they have to offer in exchange for your money is the character itself (gameplay, background, voice, animations...) Designing the purchase experience (the gatcha pulling) should reflect the gain you are getting out of that purchase. And they are extremely transparent and genuine about it in the way they designed it. Only character banner, focus on incentivising getting the character once, not dupes. They designed dupes as consolation prize rather than essentials. Players that are used to valuable dupes may be unfamiliar with weak dupes, and understanding their low value in Endfield will affect their incentive to purchase them. Baiting you into buying something you are not going to feel good about isn't good business. Why put dupes in at all then? They are forced to put dupes in Endfield cause gatcha and they don't want to scare of mainstream gatcha audience with some experimental alternative.

[@Circl3s]

What makes it bad for me is: I often try pulling for the cool 4-star characters (so 5-star in Endfield). In other gachas I can make 10, 20, hell, 50 pulls on a banner to try to get the 4-star, and I don't have to worry because I know these pulls will carry over for the guarantee for the 5-star I want. In Endfield I won't be able to pull for 5-stars ever, unless the 5-star I want is paired with the 6-star I want. And sometimes I pull for 5-stars I don't feel strongly about. Maybe I'll get them, maybe I won't, but I know for sure that if I don't get this 5-star, I'll definitely get the next one I want. Is it worth it to forfeit this flexibility for 120 guarantee instead of 150-180? Depends on the person AND the amount of free pulls we get, but right now, personally, I'm really skeptical.

[@jm0062]

The 80-pull pity will still carry over. The 120 guarantee is the one that doesn't carry over.

[@Circl3s]

@@jm0062 I know, but the guarantee is really what matters. I'd rather stab myself than rely on 50/50 for every banner. lol

[@jm0062]

@@Circl3s Okay but why would you need the guarantee to carry over if you've already decided to do 120 pulls in every banner? The only reason you would want the guarantee to carry over is if you want to "build pity" in the previous banner, which is pointless. If you do 120 pulls and you get the character, then the guarantee resets to 0. There is nothing to carry over.

[@Circl3s]

@ Well... That's precisely what my original comment was about. But like I said at the end of that comment: it all depends on how many pulls we get for free. If getting 120 pulls takes as much time as getting 80 in Genshin... Or maybe it takes as much time as getting 160 in Genshin. This variable changes the context DRASTICALLY and we won't know for sure until the game comes out and we start getting events and what not.