Cheater Mouthpieces and Independent Thinking

[@vaxtrpts1]

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Same thing happened to me in college and I ended up refusing to use the equipment that the teacher was trying to force me to use. (Large bore Bach and and a 1 1/2 C mouthpiece.) I was playing on a Conn Connstelation and a Conn 4 mouthpiece and they were working just fine for me. I too, would tell the student that he really needs to think about whether to stay in that school and study with that particular teacher. Way too many college trumpet professors are too arbitrary when it comes to equipment. They do NOT take into account a particular student's playing desires or their physical make up, I'm afraid.

[@lesliecolonello9320]

Great Video. I went to music school 6 years after high school, three years in the Army including a tour in Viet Nam's 9th Infantry Div. Band, and nights playing in different bands in Pittsburgh. I played on an HN White Mouthpiece that I got with a Cleveland horn when I was ten. Now in college and in possession of some decent chops, my teacher made me buy a Schilke 12. I was immediately back to Jr. High with no technique or stamina. Now as a grown man, not a kid out of High School, I was glad I had the balls to push back and declare myself a paying customer in a music school. And the customer is always right. I switched back to the piece that I liked and stayed with it til I graduated. My advice to impressionable kids: don't let a teacher ruin your confidence by bring bullied. You are the customer paying for the lessons. (Or rather your parents) Don't throw good money after bad.

[@josephtriscari208]

So true! Happens to more trumpet players especially younger trumpet players studying with certain teachers. You always hear you can’t get a big all around sound on a tiny mouthpiece. My uncle Ray Triscari played on a tiny mouthful like a drilled out dime and was first call in the studios for years. Great story to share!! Joe Triscari

[@buckaroobonsi555]

It is one of the things I absolutely hate about the trumpet community in general. They have their mind made up about what brand of trumpet you should play, what bell profile you should use for any given style of music and what mouthpiece is acceptable. At the end of the day all that matter's if your sound and range. You have to have some spine and back bone. My Dad has taken all kinds of heat for being outspoken and very much against so called internet experts and parrots! It really comes down to ego, power and control and the ones that have the power and control do not want to give it up. There is no place for science or an open mind. It does not matter if something does not work keep doing what I tell you until it does and if it never works well it must be you! My Dad is not at all popular but I can respect him which for having integrity and intellectual honesty. When he is wrong it is not because he had an agenda or was parroting other's. Just like any science sometimes you learn that what you thought you understood and knew was not at all right. Once you have proven that something is not at all working for you it would be stupid to continue to do something and expect a different outcome than what you have been getting. Manufactures in general and musicians as well prefer voodoo and "artistry" over science and understanding. Nothing kills the "magic" in this microcosm like math and science! LOL In fact at the last minute I decided not to get a degree in Education with Music as my Major because of how fickle this industry and group of people are. My Dad wished I had but the internet experts soured me on it after seeing how my Dad was treated. Instead I decided to take up culinary arts. I still play every day for an audience of 1! LOL

[@Living4Christ7]

Spot on! In college I once played a master class for a famous brass quintet and they went on about how they liked my sound and overall musicianship but that all changed when they saw I was playing on a Getzen Eterna with a Jet Tone MF3 mouthpiece. I suddenly needed help understanding what it would take to excel. Johnny Madrid once told me Magic Johnson wears a size 16 shoe but that doesn't mean you can play just like him if you put that same size shoe on. You have to play igear made for you and your physical make up. For Johnny Madrid to take the time to help a kid like me was a huge benefit. Johnny was in a class by himself when it comes to trumpet players and was also a very kind soul!.

[@stomviusavideo]

Heard many similar statements from Johnny as well. If I recall the "cheater mouthpiece" I reference in this video is one Johnny gave me all those years ago.

[@gregaudrey4299]

Very well stated. When we go to perform, the audience doesn't require us to fill out a questionnaire as to what equipment we're going to be using. As you implied, it's all about what comes out of the bell of the horn.

[@madisonhunter2208]

Great video! I was in the same position, Bach 5C was what the band director wanted me to use. Playing lead trumpet was harder with the wrong equipment.

[@mysterytomastery1]

Spectacular video!!! Love it.

[@SergioFradeOfficial]

Excellent video.

[@b1pig]

Why, oh why wasn't this such a great thought process in the 80's/90s??? So many of us had to face this very faulty ideal, that you were required to use a "standard" mouthpiece. I got a stern scolding by a very strict band director as a high school freshman when I asked the band director if we could only play on one mouthpiece, why were there other options available. I said that it would seem to me that buying a mouthpiece would be like buying shoes.... some fit, some don't. She didn't agree with me. Wasn't my fight, though... my best friend was the trumpet player... as she said I was just a dumb drummer banging on things.

[@ericdurak4918]

KO - Great advice. The entire aspect of attending college is CRITICAL THINKING. I think this guy (who is a doctoral student, and should be thinking for himself) should have said what you said. I hope you are in contact with him - and he has had a change of heart. Hopefully he is done with his studies so he can engage in the REAL world.

[@DavesTrumpet]

Great video and excellent points. Yeah, I had one of those teachers for a short time in college. I had a really strong high range at the time, no problem making a good sound, and was using a Purviance mpc because that's what my high school teacher recommended. Anyway it wasn't even a shallow mpc but this jerk of an instructor got it in his head that my range came entirely from this mpc. So one day when he kept going on and on, I said, "You have your horn with you?". Sure, he said and I said let me see your mpc. He used a Schilke 20D. I said, here you go, popped it into my horn, and played straight up to a G above High C, then back down to low G and left him sitting there to think about it. But you're right, there is no 'right' mpc that's going to work the same for everybody. Heck, my favorite player, Timofei Dokshizer played a Bach 7C and sometimes 7E. His sound was HUGE!

[@brianlassiter3011]

Thank you for this. It's nice to hear common sense.

[@jean-pierredevent970]

blessed are those who are able to play on very shallow mouthpieces for their line into heaven will be much shorter

[@learningaresintenorrecorde8310]

Totally agree! Well said!

[@gregorygerner3471]

You know what mouthpiece Gerard Schwarz played when he was Co-Principal Trumpet with the New York Philharmonic from 1972 to 1977? A Bach 5C. Not a 3C, not a 1C, not a 1 1/2C. A 5C and he had a gorgeous HUGE sound. I rest my case.

[@jorgecallico9177]

Excellent video. This illustrates conventional thinking vs critical thinking. It doesn't surprise me that the colleges are still promoting old ideas. Remember, lots of these college trumpet professors have never played professionally. Some don't even have a working G above High C. At least not of any commercial use. I won't even start with a discussion of the invaluable wisdom of the Stevens-Costello system. Too many college profs come from the educational system with all of its dogmas. These profs are professionals at regurgitating conventional (aka ''failed'' wisdom). That and appeasing school administrations. Helping students is actually fairly low on their agenda. This guy should have gotten fired long ago, but hey, That's just college music programs. I think that they're designed to squeeze all the heart out of creative musicians. Either that or to make wealthy parents think that, ''Oh well at least Junior is going to college''. Instead of being a road traveling musician. The described student who found support from Stomvi's custom mouthpiece was being VICTIMIZED by a fraud of a ''teacher''. Perhaps Stomvi can't say this because they don't want to alienate a large school. And I respect that. However, Google applies no such restrictions on me. I call 'em the way I see 'em. Harsh, but true. I once opened up a ''screamer piece'' (one so shallow that I actually had to make it myself on my own lathe) to a #22 throat with appropriate back-bore. Though shallower by a noticeable margin than even a Schilke 6a4a It still got a bigger sound than a Bach 3C. And I had a High G all night on it. Called it my ''bill payer''. The same relative changes occur in the classical idiom as described by Stomvi.

[@57dogsbody]

SPOT ON MAN !

[@hernandez-perezandroid5983]

Very nice vid.

[@ajn465]

I have always favored smaller diameter pieces. My thinking is the right mpc for YOURface. It seems there is a bell curve. Most guys fall in the middle.. 3-5C Bach. Some guys do best on huge pieces.. Some guys need smaller ones, but we are a minority. But out here on the fringe of the bell curve I will happily remain. 😃👍

[@gregaudrey4299]

"Minority",I'm not so sure. Historically, there have been manny "great" players that used small mouthpieces, I know that you know the names. Whatever works.

[@pauldance7387]

Totally agree, coming from the golf business I could tell you similar stories related to perfectly legal USGA equipment that certain college and HS coaches frowned own. If a manufacture fabricates an easier legal club to hit just because Sam Sneed never had the benefit of new Technology doesn’t mean that we as modern day players cannot move forward. I am not saying most coaches share that philosophy as those knuckled headed coaches nevertheless it’s stupid thinking. One year ago I started learning the trumpet and bought a student model with a standard 7C MP. 12 months later my teacher says I’ve advanced quicker faster than any student he’s ever taught, yet I am stuck on top line E and cannot seem to get past it...my coach says that the student model may be holding me back. So now I am in search of trumpet with modern day technology and a MP that’s gonna let me rise out of the ashes, I cannot go much father with this student horn. I am sure that a pro trumpet player could take my trumpet and blow over the staff but sorry I am not waiting that long I want it now.

[@stomviusavideo]

Hi Paul, You might want to check out another playlist on our channel "Trumpet playing as a skill based endeavor." If you like, give me a call and we can "talk trumpet." I'm happy to help to the best of my abilities. 661-253-0066. - K.O.

[@pauldance7387]

stomviusavideo thx I have question’s, I’ll call within 10 days...The Forte sounds interesting but I’ll listen to you.

[@anatolel4545]

You should have used a "classical Mouthpiece blank and just machine the dimensions exactly as the other mouthpiece, then stamp "1-1/2 C" on it.

[@Dizzyphan]

What is so magical about a 1-1/2C mouthpiece? Why are orchestral trumpet teachers always about THAT one? If the goal is to play the biggest mouthpiece for the biggest/darkest tone.....why are they not harping on playing a 1A which is the biggest mouthpiece Bach makes?

[@rickmorales2113]

The big mpc community cant handle a Bach 1c much less a 1A...

[@philosophicallyspeaking6463]

I have no experience or knowledge of a 'significant' or 'great' player actively discouraging a student from doing something that works unless it is physically unsustainable or musically exclusionary! My experience was that all teachers who make contingency for potential by listening with their eyes rather than the ears, or worse...are caused to discount their ears for simply coming aware of some matter that offends the pedagogical orthodoxy whose alter they worship at, believing it to author of the greater part or their personal competency, are invariably little better than competent second tier (principle or otherwise) players that chronically teeter on the edge of self-doubt and mortification of the technical competency necessary to work confidently and comfortably in music in a second tier band. In many cases, their experience or position (having somehow at sometime acquired one) is all that authorizes the mythology of their factual ability above the rank of talented amateur.

[@BitTanner]

How can people expect others to play high notes on a big mouthpieces its absolutely wrong to call it a cheater mouthpiece the only thing you are cheating is yourself by not getting one for highnotes

[@hvilletrumpet]

I wonder if the root is actually a hatred and resulting ignorance of lead playing by professional teachers who aren't professional players. There's a reason the dominant lead players all use shallow pieces for commercial work. They're certainly not cheating! That's the tool for the job. I love my Bobby Shew 1.5. It's not as small as some lead pieces I've played so the sound I get is a little rounder, but the upper register is far easier. I can play G above C on my large Yamaha 16c4 (which I use in legit music), but why punish myself? Teachers like the one mentioned in this video really make my blood boil. They can't see past their own dogmas. Most of the time they can't even do what their student is wanting to do. It's pure bias. OK, ok. I'll get off my soapbox.

[@brassplyer]

A doctoral student at a major university who couldn't play above the staff? Seriously?

[@stomviusavideo]

Yes on his C trumpet he had difficulty