It's an interesting burial, the museum is just a short bus-ride from Copenhagen. They exhibit several bodies, one of them with antlers arranged like a pillow under his head. It tells a lot about hunter-gatherer spiritual lives.The burials range from 6000-4500 bce with many hinds to Shamanic and Animistic worldview.
@nonameneeded-n6t11 ай бұрын
Beautiful and tragic. Such is our human story.
@briangallagher3106 Жыл бұрын
I’ve cried 3 times today thinking about this woman and that baby and the father who may have left the knife and swans wing. It’s so sad.
@rebeccam90084 жыл бұрын
Missed the live, but glad to see the rerun. As always very interesting topic.
@indranialwis2124 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing.
@BuhitoCantor3 жыл бұрын
I found you guys making a little research myself to find out more about this touching and poetic burial..greetings from Buenos Aires!
@amethyst55384 жыл бұрын
In Mongolia it was believed that a swan mother sacrificed her life for her children so that they could live and populate the land. I wonder if they had perhaps similar belief?
@ThePrehistoryGuys4 жыл бұрын
I wonder how far back that goes?
@roddixon3684 жыл бұрын
Good to see that this still invoces such passion, so many years after the inial discovery.
@gruboniell41894 жыл бұрын
Ahhh! Missed it again!!
@elainerichards64064 жыл бұрын
Absolutely fascinating!
@g3heathen2094 жыл бұрын
Very interesting.
@mariahunter98824 жыл бұрын
I think Ben Haggarty is also a storyteller and does live performances at museums and educational programs. I'm nearly positive I heard him with Yo-Yo Ma's Silk Road Project years ago. He was wonderful.
@jeffangus77494 жыл бұрын
Fascinating presentation and discussion. Thanks for the great videos you both produce. Very entertaining and informative. Happy Holidays
@richdj97804 жыл бұрын
Great story.
@virginiaallisonpeck25174 жыл бұрын
You all are great and that was touchingly interesting... thank you ❤️💖🎄
@ThePrehistoryGuys4 жыл бұрын
Our pleasure!
@elizabethmcglothlin5406 Жыл бұрын
Lovely and touching.
@cfapps78654 жыл бұрын
I love Denmark.
@cyclicalcycler9934 жыл бұрын
cf-apps7865 well NOT this time a year we had one hour of sunlight in the last three weeks... All grey for the next 3-4 months, i forgot what blue skies actually looks like
@ChristophersMum4 жыл бұрын
@@cyclicalcycler993 Just about the same for us here in Scotland...
@philwilson63234 жыл бұрын
The most poignant burial I recall is much younger, Anglo-Saxon. It's a young girl buried with her dog. You can almost imagine that the dog was at her heels all the time and joined her in death. In this case, did anyone mention the idea of flight? The notion of the spirit flying away seems to be implied.
@paullee54494 жыл бұрын
Mind-blowing Beautifully spiritual .
@SueWitting Жыл бұрын
As I understand it in Scandinavian folklore swans were seen as the messengers of the gods as they were of land, sky, water and air. I culled this from a discussion of Siblius's Swan of Tuonela. Very touching thought; meant to expedite them safely into the afterworld? Could be to do with migration from one world to another? The comic book image actually puts flesh, form and soul to the burial. Robin Witting, England
@yensid42944 жыл бұрын
That's an interesting observation about water fowl & their symbolism. Is this the possible origin of the stork delivering baby motif?
@ThePrehistoryGuys4 жыл бұрын
Interesting connection - but we'll never know of course!
@fourravens46384 жыл бұрын
One remark on the flint knife. The same museum that exhibits the female with child skeletons also exhibits an adult male with a similar flint tool. I have seen this pattern of male / flint tool combination before in museums. I would suggest it could indicate the baby is a male?
@paulakelly5632 жыл бұрын
Could the flint knife placed on baby’s tummy area , the umbilical cord uncut , as both mother and baby died in childbirth ! They are left attached ! Touching ! Great care taken in their burial
@admiralsquatbar1274 жыл бұрын
I think that this burial tells a fantastic and tragic story.
@maisondusuave3 жыл бұрын
I'm never surprised by any grave good. There's a lot of emphasis on ritual in discussion but my experience is that things are included for very personal, "just seems right" aspect. These days we don't expect our departed to need anything in the afterlife, but so often we send things, like significant possessions. To me, the wing didn't necessarily need any more significance than it was white, and soft. A tender way to lay them on the earth.
@elizabethmcglothlin54064 ай бұрын
This one made me even more emotional than the identical twins.
@KateKelly-zv3ur4 ай бұрын
Hi Michael and Ruffus
@ericschmuecker3482 жыл бұрын
A grieving husband's touch.
@talanigreywolf71104 жыл бұрын
In reference to being connected, are you talking about Doggerland?
@ThePrehistoryGuys4 жыл бұрын
Yes. But I think I'm wrong to have mentioned that. Despite sea levels still being lower then, I don't think there was any link left. Think I got my BPs and my BCs mixed up!
@itarry43 жыл бұрын
It doesn't take away from the image not attaching any mythology or hypothesises to the burial. Just the image of a dad or someone else laying that mother down, the wing next to her and then placing the baby on top of the wing and no matter what that shows care. Comic book writers are often amazing at their research and their care in how they use what they find. Japanese, Indian anywhere with a rich history of myth and religion with comic book writers all show that the facts are as important as the myths.
@ChristophersMum4 жыл бұрын
A very poignant picture here...describes the heartfelt feelings for family that we all can recognise...
@111111john4 жыл бұрын
I am wondering a out the significance of the flint knife placed upon the still borne infant child? Could that be an indication that a post mortum cesarean may have been performed in attempt to save the baby?
@ThePrehistoryGuys4 жыл бұрын
Could be. But it's one of those instances where we'll never know so it becomes an example of the way WE think, not necessarily of the way they thought. Best, Michael 😊
@TacticalMove4 жыл бұрын
Hello gentlemen, appreciate your style and frank descriptions. Do you know where I could find a sensible chronology of the UKs and near field (eu & Scandinavian) Mesolithic... early Neolithic to the beginnings of the Iron Age. Ie: mapped to show what happened where and when. So we may try to understand the process of uk development. +/- a century or two?
@ThePrehistoryGuys4 жыл бұрын
I think there are a few books that tackle the problem. Francis Prior's 'Britain B.C.' comes to mind. However, I can't think of any that are up to date enough to take into account recent developments that DNA studies have brought about in terms of our understanding of population movements at the boundaries you speak of. What can we say? We're working on it!!! Michael 😊
@TacticalMove4 жыл бұрын
@@ThePrehistoryGuys Thanks for the reply. I will begin with Francis’s book.
@robjohnson2123 жыл бұрын
She actually has REALLY nice and strong looking teeth for her age. No oxidized staining of the gum bones around the teeth to indicate any molar damage or tooth decay.
@klasina55 Жыл бұрын
She is supposed to be around 18. So, ' for her age'?
@robjohnson212 Жыл бұрын
@@klasina55 Oh, I must've missed that part. Thank You. Makes sense now.
@flinteastwood71792 жыл бұрын
What does the mother swan do with her babies when danger is around? She takes them under her wing.
@MossyMozart5 ай бұрын
So poignant. We must never forget that the bones and fossils in the ground were once breathing and loving. They are our ancestors and it is through their efforts that we are here at all.
@mandymckerl45484 жыл бұрын
Does anyone think the lack of interest in this burial is a bit of gender bias in archaeology? Is a woman and child less interesting than 'warrior' with sword, shield and battle wounds? The flint knife is interesting about how we interpret sites. Perhaps it was from the midwife and was used for cutting the umbilical cord, nor may be not in this instance? So much discussion in this one.
@mariahunter98824 жыл бұрын
The knife may also have been used for a c-section, if they knew they lost the mother and were hoping to save the child. Pretty heartbreaking.
@fourravens46384 жыл бұрын
Why? there are 17 burials there men and woman. This burial is actually singled out a lot because of the story it tells.The swan wing is a very interesting theme (swan + female + psychopomp + deities) that pops up in our mythology and fables until modern times.
@mandymckerl45484 жыл бұрын
@@mariahunter9882 Yes, I think that is another possibility. Childbirth is a dangerous event for women - at anytime!
@mandymckerl45484 жыл бұрын
Sounds like you're shutting down discussion rather than opening it - you are entitled to your own inclinations - gawn yirsel!
@mandymckerl45484 жыл бұрын
@fred McMurray Harlequin? As in Mills & Boone? Oh please! Ha ha ha ha ha
@cargilekm4 жыл бұрын
Why do people assume that a belief of an afterlife is involved in burials? Couldn't just the loss of wife and child have been enough for a burial with love and care to be shown for those still living? Maybe the style of burial had more to do with the person and her relationship with others. Aren't a lot of the burials, just plain body in hole? Maybe the dead in those cases weren't beloved individuals.
@lenabreijer13114 жыл бұрын
Probably because almost every early culture believes in the afterlife. It helps with the grief to believe that your beloved and child have somewhere somehow something better. And remember every village in Europe has at least one church and graveyard, if not more. The entire Christian faith is about the afterlife and obtaining a good spot in it
@cargilekm4 жыл бұрын
@@lenabreijer1311 We are talking about the mesalithic period, not an era with organized religion. We actually don't have any proof of their thoughts about afterlives. We make assumptions based upon our thoughts not on any tangible proof. Our assumptions are often wrong. The idea of afterlives might not be natural. Early god beliefs were hunt and animal or plant related. Not supernatural beings that look like humans.
@lenabreijer13114 жыл бұрын
@@cargilekm sure we do. There is plenty of writing about the believes of native Americans. About hunter gatherers in Africa, Australia and other places. Every burial found except for Christian ones has stuff for the after life. It is the one common thing between all spiritual believes every where organized or not. It is what bonds people together.
@mandymckerl45484 жыл бұрын
@@lenabreijer1311 I think on your 'bonding people together' as a 'relational/human' aspect that makes the burial image poignant. I feel something when I look at it, a subjective sense, perhaps of loss in this case, that humans have carried across millennia .
@mandymckerl45484 жыл бұрын
@@cargilekm Good point about how we think about what is 'natural'. Opens up so much discussion and bids us be aware of our own cultural lens, what we are looking through and at when we look at the burial.
@KateKelly-zv3ur4 ай бұрын
Hi guys, my dad was a camera man, he taught me a trick with a video, I've seen the swan manifest, would like to speak to you guys regarding Swans thanks Gog bless.
@chrisdavis76173 жыл бұрын
Too bad, I really wanted to watch this one, but I'm partially deaf and need the CC. This is the first one I've found without it.
@ThePrehistoryGuys3 жыл бұрын
Chris the CCs are there - if you switch them on! (How depends on what device you're watching from.)
@chrisdavis76173 жыл бұрын
@@ThePrehistoryGuys I don't know what's wrong with this one, but it won't work. I will try on another device. I'm currently on a laptop. It says English UK and acts like it's going to work because the red line is on under the CC button, but.... Thank you.
@gruboniell41894 жыл бұрын
Did they bury the knife because it was now “cursed”
@gruboniell41894 жыл бұрын
The way it was placed on the baby was as if it was cutting the umbilical cord or to use to separate mother from baby in the after life?
@mandymckerl45484 жыл бұрын
@@gruboniell4189 Yes, where the knife is placed on the baby's body made me think on the umbilical cord and that in turn got me thinking about the delivery of a child.
@gruboniell41894 жыл бұрын
@@mandymckerl4548 they way the job in the after life of the child to do it and not the mother... or was it the location the cut need to take place. Makes me think they were still connected
@mandymckerl45484 жыл бұрын
@@gruboniell4189 Yes, giving the child agency/personhood. I like this line of thought. It also crossed my mind that this was a 'poignant' burial to me, because it tells us so much in both physical remains (mother, child, stories in myth?) and what I think on as, relationship between mother, child, culture and society - it has 'affect' today because of the feeling of relationship being carried across time. We'll never know. What we do appear recognise (know at an intuitive level?) is there is a subjective value, which I suggest is 'relational' Guys call it 'significant' Our contextual lens. So enjoying this, thnx.
@gruboniell41894 жыл бұрын
@@mandymckerl4548 wow. Very true. I think we don’t think with spirit in mind anymore. Sharmans say this a lot these days. We tend to explain away spirit. For instance their understanding of spirit was male. The female provided the egg/matter/earth/moon and the male provided the seed/spirit/energy/sky/sun to create life. They could have realised this because of twins. One egg 2 Seeds. This was the definitive evidence of a deeper understanding of the roles of gender as well. I notice this through how Australian Originals create the Songlines and continue their traditions
@elisekuby2009Ай бұрын
Birds, of any kind, are seen as the instruments of transformation. Perhaps in that society, a bird was seen to carry the souls of the dead to another plane, another existence.
@KS-se9jb Жыл бұрын
I can see this as something I would do that would totally mess up people in the future. If I had a swans wing, owl wing, or another big beautiful bird wing, I would do this for a baby and their mother. Same as those who bury babies with warm blankets, boots and socks to keep their feet warm. Could have just been a beautiful, comfortable bed for the comfort of the people laying them to rest. Might have no other meaning.
@gruboniell41894 жыл бұрын
Looks like red ochre too buried with them. Could they be ancestors of the maritime archaic ppls?
@ThePrehistoryGuys4 жыл бұрын
Yes - forgot to mention the red ochre! No. These are indigenous Europeans most closely related genetically with other cultures in the Netherlands and Germany.
@gruboniell41894 жыл бұрын
@@ThePrehistoryGuys but the maritime archaic were from Spain/western coasts?... As well as the Americas?
@bozo56324 жыл бұрын
Or, a swan burial was adorned with people.
@JasmineGeminiDragon Жыл бұрын
Has she been given a name yet?
@courtneyriley185 Жыл бұрын
I hope i get dug up in 2000 years ❤
@KateKelly-zv3ur4 ай бұрын
God
@naders087 ай бұрын
Where are we in life?. That a mother and her child are resting in peace.and we disturbed their grave/their final resting place. Do any of you want your skeleton remains put on KZbin?
@hiruthseyoum59694 жыл бұрын
Are the bodies of African origin?
@mandymckerl45484 жыл бұрын
Guess we'll have to wait for DNA analysis.
@ThePrehistoryGuys4 жыл бұрын
Er, this is Denmark, 4,000 BC. Am I missing something? The question doesn't make sense to me.
@mandymckerl45484 жыл бұрын
@@ThePrehistoryGuys I thought the context of the question related to migration from Africa. I was thinking of Mt DNA and Lara Cassidy's work when I read it. Just an thought...do we know what sex the baby was? More DNA studies?
@Earthfield-GeopolymerWorld4 жыл бұрын
@@mandymckerl4548 Migration from Africa?? You are talking about planet earth and not the Africa on Kepler 452b ? 😉
@mandymckerl45484 жыл бұрын
@@Earthfield-GeopolymerWorld read anything on MtDNA?
@jeffangus77494 жыл бұрын
Fascinating presentation and discussion. Thanks for the great videos you both produce. Very entertaining and informative. Happy Holidays
@ThePrehistoryGuys4 жыл бұрын
Many thanks from Michael! So glad you enjoyed it 😊