Stop Degassing Your Sourdough During Shaping and Discover How it Affects the Crumb

Does the amount of pressure you use when shaping sourdough affect the crumb? I tried shaping two loaves, one with a light touch and the other using more pressure.
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0:50 Recipe
1:35 Kneading
2:10 Strech & fold
2:40 Shaping
4:00 Bake
4:30 Compare before baking
5:10 Compare loaves
#sourdoughshaping

[@lbamusic]

I'll take either! I'm not much into crumb dynamics, but more focused on taste, texture, and outside form. Thanks for vid!

[@CulinaryExploration]

Cheers Ben :)

[@mythcrab6047]

Crumb matters when you can't make a sandwich or toast with your bread because everything falls right through.

[@jodi183]

@@mythcrab6047 It depends on what you're using your sourdough for. I rarely make a sourdough loaf for sandwiches. Instead I make a sourdough starter sandwich loaf in a bread pan. With that loaf I knead that dough quite a bit and I add pressure to it while shaping. With my sourdough loafs, I generally use that for eating alongside a meal, maybe with olive oil or butter depending on the meal. And I generally prefer an open crumb. And if I do make toast with it, I really don't mind the butter melting through the bread and dripping onto my plate. In fact, I like it that way. Different strokes for different folks.

[@ErhuFood]

Thanks for sharing, nice to meet your channel! Your recipes look delicious and healthy! I like it very much 💕 Looking forward to more videos from you, thank you!

[@brooklyngiraffe]

I really appreciate the no-mixer recipe and your encouragement in how to handle a sticky dough. At first the dough was rough-looking and resembled chunky cookie dough, but I kept at the kneading and also gave it a two hour rest. My loaves came out beautifully!

[@lalacatapang22]

I always love your recipe. I need to try this soon 😊

[@ErhuFood]

Thanks for sharing, nice to meet your channel! Your recipes look delicious and healthy! I like it very much 💕 Looking forward to more videos from you, thank you!

[@bubbleobill267]

Good tip on dividing the dough at an earlier stage. Will use this method today!.

[@klimenkor]

really lovely loaves! While I was getting very similar results with even more opening (when making slice at around 2 o'clock it opens up to 45 degrees) I found one of your tips that resonated with my experience. I think you're the first one among 100s of others who mentioned "cleanness of the knife" after cutting the bread. From now on I will use this as another measurement of success

[@Simplycomfortfood]

This sourdough series has been packed full of great information. I am improving my technique on dealing with using poolishes. I am leaving the poolish over night on the counter or over night in the refrigerator. I have used the method for White sandwich loaf, pizza and Focaccia bread. I love the flavor profile from the poolish. Looking forward to you next video. Cheers!

[@CulinaryExploration]

I hope the recent vids encourage a little experimentation :) - I love using poolish too, pleased you enjoyed the recipes

[@MatthewFeshbach]

😊😊😊😊😊

[@markyounghouse2641]

Thank you for the great video. I appreciate your scientific approach. It is good to question and challenge the basic assumptions

[@CulinaryExploration]

It's fun to experiment Mark. Cheers for stopping by :)

[@8nansky528]

I ADORE READING

[@Hmjoa]

Super informative video as always :) I really appreciate your content, keep it up!

[@CulinaryExploration]

Cheers!

[@ekaram63]

Great video on an interesting topic. I find often that random sized pockets of air will form when floding and shaping the dough. To resolve I now keep a packet of toothpicks on hand to deflate any obvious trouble bubbles.

[@goranthoren5522]

Nice! short and sweet. I personally never score my bread, instead I learned a technique that works great every time. It involves just doing final fold an pressing down the dow on one of the sides and with the other hand move like a plow to create a bulge at the opposite side. After that i put a generous amount of flour on both on the "bulgy side of the doe and on the flattened side. Once i roll it together the two floured sides wont stick together which in turns makes for at natural weakness. The "seam" will then immediately crack open at the bakeoff, creating a really nice ear on the bread. You should try that method and se how you like it.

[@maddoctor99]

Another great video. I have to say though, that even when I follow your exact recipe and also use the same protein content flower is you (Robin Hood flour) with 14%, my dough is quite a lot wetter than yours. At 2:25 which you say is the first set of stretch and folds, your dough Is extremely cooperative and appears to stretch smoothly and evenly with very little force from you and seems to stretch a long way and stay put where you leave it. In contrast, my dough at the same stage has a lot of elasticity and wants to spring back. So when I pull on one side I have to pull quite gently or it will tear and when I let go of it it wants to pull back across the worktop to resume its original shape. I have to go around the perimeter bit by bit stretching it a couple of inches at a time until gradually it will sit out. But it’s interesting that it would look very different on video compared to how yours looks at this point. I also can’t claim that I get a 75% increase in volume during bulk fermentation. I would guess that I get maybe a 25% increase over five hours and by the time it reaches around 75°F. However, when I bake in a preheated Dutch oven which has been heated for an hour at 500°F and immediately lowered to 425°F when the loaf goes in, and then lower it again to 400°F and uncovered after 25 minutes, I get a huge rise and oven spring and huge ear. So the overall result looks great and has a good crumb too, but it’s just interesting that the process should look so different to yours even when I try to follow it closely. I would be interested to know how other people would describe their dough during that first hour of mixing, resting and then stretching.

[@Just_Enni]

Thank you for another great video ❤

[@CulinaryExploration]

Cheers Enrico

[@superfoodsmoothies]

Great video! With my last bake I used a liner in the banneton with one bake and no liner in the 2nd banneton. I got a better rise with the liner one as it was more tightly held together in the liner, which gave better oven spring. When scoring I cut right to the edges of the dough, like to the counter. Also the deeper you score the larger the ear.

[@CulinaryExploration]

I never thought to compare liners! I'm looking forward to playing around with the scoring

[@superfoodsmoothies]

@@CulinaryExploration I'm looking forward to your video about it 🤗

[@jennydelipei9825]

Amazing dough, Well done !!! I wasn't able to make sourdough bread. I tried several times but I didn't make it. I keep the starter on my fridge maybe one day I will try again. Thank you again for your recipes.

[@ekaram63]

Never give up. Perhaps try to make and feed your starter using wholemeal flour. Another tip is to use 50-60% hydration and knead thoroughly. Finally, keeping the starter on the bench fed daily gives best flavour and results. It is important to form the habit, like brushing teeth before bed. Keep the dream, and the starter alive!

[@TWHwmn]

So much great information here! May I ask what size banneton you're using for this loaf?

[@artycrafty9209]

Excellent video as usual Philip, really interesting, I must say I like hearing the things which you find negative as I always think its just me and I am not doing things correctly, looks like we all suffer the same demons! Some interesting comments here and also useful to hear others ups and downs. I agree re salt not affecting much in the way of yeast activity as mentioned by Happy Piper, have not found that to be a problem. To degas or not to degas has been one of my things for a long time and I usually chicken out of not, but mmmm think I have to try this for myself😉. Ramon.

[@CulinaryExploration]

Hey Ramon, always great to hear from you. I think it's fun to experiment and test different methods to see what works best for our own baking. Let's be fair, my star loaf probably differs drastically from yours, and what works for me and my process, may not work for you :)

[@artycrafty9209]

@@CulinaryExploration So very true!

[@davidconway2736]

Wow wasn’t expecting that result nice one Philip

[@CulinaryExploration]

Neither was I, Cheers David

[@antheakaranasos2047]

After 2+ years of baking sourdough (lots of learning!!) I went from simple to more complex recipes & am seeing that scaling back to simpler recipes again might be part of the *wiser baking* curve 🤔 I’ve been following 3 well-loved KZbin bakers & learnered different useful tips & tricks from each. I just discovered you. I’m blown away by the *no knocking back* or degassing of the dough after bulk fermentation. And the 1-bowl method is great! I used to do that then invested in aee through square containers to better monitor the bulk rise. I went over 75% a few times & wanted to prevent that. I see your little test bulk jar monitors it perfectly. That means less cleanup using one bowl & no special bulking containers 😊 No time now although I want to compare your flour/water/starter ratios to theirs to see how wet your dough it. I make boules & use a dough scraper to drag-&-shape them rather than the log roll & *stitch* method you & others use for longer loaves. Question: I’ve been experimenting adding 100% whole wheat to my basic recipe in 20% increments - 20, 40, 60 etc. 60% next tome 🤞🏼 Will your recipe adapt to adding WW? Thanks for all this knowledge! Love your videos & clear explanations.

[@CulinaryExploration]

Cheers Anthea, it's really interesting to know what other people are up to with their baking, thanks for taking the time to comment. Yes, this recipe will adapt perfectly if you'd like to include whole-wheat flour. let me know how you get on :)

[@debbykeiran7087]

Anthea do you find any changes to the bulk fermenting time with the use of whole wheat? I too use whole wheat and am successful at a 50/50 ratio right now. I would like to keep bumping it up. I’m finding that my dough does not need to bulk fermenting as long and I am often over proofing my loaves even when keeping them at a cooler temp.

[@antheakaranasos2047]

@@CulinaryExploration Thanks for taking time to reply! Looking forward to experimenting with your method.

[@antheakaranasos2047]

@@debbykeiran7087 Hi Debby. I learned a trick I use with all my bulk proofs/ferments. I use straight sided transparent plastic square containers. I mark the side with a sharpie pen to show the level of the dough when it first goes in. Then I eyeball double that height, mark it, then place a mark halfway between the start line and the double line. That shows me when my dough has reached 1.5 growth during bulk fermentation. With the varying temps in my kitchen especially in winter, I don't go by time -- instead I watch when the dough reaches the 1.5 mark then turn it out to shape. To keep track, I set my timer at 1-hour increments to check the progress. I honestly haven't noticed a proof time difference with whole wheat because there are so many variables I can't select for. I hope that makes sense. I've never overproofed the dough since using the straight sided containers to monitor things. When I used a glass bowl, it was so iffy with occasional over-proofings. So sad!!

[@jodi183]

I used to spend more hands on time with my sourdoughs. I did the whole autolyse technique and whatever time consuming methods I could do to make a great loaf. Sometimes I don't even feed my starter prior to a bake. If there's a enough, I'll just take my starter out of the fridge and use it, especially if it's been fed at least a week prior. I also started mixing everything at once--no autolyse, fewer stretching and folding (maybe 4 times over the course of 2 hours), definitely never kneading the dough, and less time scrutinizing over the bulk fermentation stage. I usually put the dough in the fridge overnight to bulk ferment, then I proof it on the counter until it looks ready. After many loaves, I have a good idea of when it's ready to bake. My loaves, in general, look great, taste great and I don't have to stress over the whole process. Every once in a while I have a mishap, but that's usually because I ahve to rush through the bulk stage (if I make my bread in the morning). So ya, going to a simpler, more hands off approach has resulted in better bread for me. And a friend of mine who is a professional pastry chef said my bread looks and tastes "pro." So... all that scrutinizing over dough may not always be necessary?

[@actuallywhatimeant2583]

Most beautiful loaves ever

[@mfrobert100]

Hello, I like your videos! And the reults you're getting with your bread. Could you tell me the brand of the flour you used in this video? That would help me a lot while I try my hands at baking sourdough bread that looks like yours. Thank you!

[@barrychambers4047]

It makes good sense, as long as the bulk proof hasn't been pushed too far, in which case I would probably be working very gingerly. Yeasted dough can take sheeting the dough with the rolling pin, then rolling the whole shebang up tightly! It stands to reason a strong sourdough should be able to take some of this abuse. I want to see how sour I can make the loaf. I'm using a well aerated, very thick starter, fermenting at a cool temperature of about 17-18C, while letting it ripen a full day, until it is starting to fall. I'm going to try a cool, slow overnight ferment with the dough. That's my plan, anyway.

[@nerdcave0]

Do you find the little test bulk jar to be a good guide? Isn't gravity a factor when comparing the rise of a little piece of dough with a big slab of dough? Great video though. Lately I've been having great results with cutting bulk a bit and letting it come to temp and rise a bit out of the fridge before baking.

[@BTs-he1lg]

Have been testing other shaping methods with more tensions lately, but crumbs turned out dense or wild. Going back to the No Knead and Every Day methods which yields good ears and nice even crumbs. Having problem rehydrating starter in Hong Kong, finally woke up after 4 feedings and 70 hours later. 😅 starter is runny, not sure its because of high humidity here, cut hydration to 90% in order to get the usual consistency back home. First loaf turned out good with gentle shaping and avoid degassing.

[@robertawearmouth2273]

I actually like the crumb of the smushed one better, but both look amazing.

[@nickvasile5354]

Did you cover the bread when you placed it in the oven ? And why the rice flour?

[@mikearst2940]

Thanks for this video. Very interesting results. My baking efforts (I'm new at it) have produced minimal success so far, the consistent problem apparently being overproofing. The oven spring looks okay most of the time and the crusts aren't bad at all. But the crumb is usually spongy and overly dense (feels overly moist, too, though the bread always reaches what I'm told is the correct internal temperature). Perplexed about how to avoid the overproofing-there are several stages of proofing and I'm unsure which is the one during which I should reduce the proofing time.

[@carynmartin6053]

Omg, I'm right there with you on this! Getting so discouraged when my breads come out so dense and heavy! Let me know what you find out is the issue...

[@mikearst2940]

@@carynmartin6053 The experts keep saying that getting this stuff right is going to take a while. As it happened, the best one I've done so far has been ChainBaker's pre-ferment white bread that is not sourdough. To see what would happen, I tried it with 15% of the flour being rye, and it worked pretty well. I'm not absolutely sure that overproofing is the cause of my own problems with the dense and spongy crumb, but that does seem to be a common result of overproofing according to various KZbin channels. I don't have a clue yet how you evaluate proofing time when the dough is spending hours in the refrigerator.

[@adamdavis40208]

post your pics and recipe in reddit's sourdough subreddit. we love debugging issues, and it's a very helpful community!

[@Jens0215]

I’ve figured out that if I let it proof too long (before shaping), that I end up with a flat loaf. If it just barely doubles (seems to take about 6 hours), then I get a good rise. I’ve also been experimenting with the fridge ferment, and have found that 36 hours in the fridge gets really good results.

[@mikearst2940]

@@Jens0215 I'm trying a cold proof in the fridge right now. I've decided to follow the particular recipe to the letter and allow the bread to cold-proof somewhere between 12 and 16 hours, no longer, and then bake it and see what happens. It's a simple recipe (not high-hydration) that involves only two one-hour-proof steps, with folding after each hour-and then straight into the fridge. Once it's out of the fridge, it's time for final folding and a three-hour rest before baking. So, I'll see how this works with no variation at all in following the directions. Of course this is always going to change with changes in ambient temperature. (I have no proofing box or any such thing-no room for it...plus, they're pricey!)

[@ynotfishing]

great video! thank you! i'm having trouble with my starter, i've been feeding it daily for 2 weeks now, and the fastest it will double at 78 degrees F is 12 hours, what to do?!?

[@LarchLine]

I'm making sourdough bread for over a year weekly. I make 3 lb at the time for 3 pieces of bread, bake all at once, and I give away 2 loaves... I can tell that both ways of shaping are working. I'm more on the light shaping side.

[@lbamusic]

I followed and understood everything. What I don't know if you have a steam oven that injects steam during the baking process? I dont see you adding steam. I think that would make a difference in the oven spring/rise?

[@carlfranz]

I'm following your experiments with great interest, trying to find more consistency in my own loaves. I've been searching your videos for more detail on your "rectangular" stretch method. I've only done a sort of pull-fold in a bowl, tightening the dough ball. Could you please show more of your own methods for S&F?

[@carlfranz]

... your Amazon bench scraper link appears to be broken.

[@carolinebesinger8611]

I'm using corn 🌽 and beer 🍺 with some potato flakes it southern Florida here so kinda island style 😎 well keep you posted! Really enjoy your videos your superb!

[@CulinaryExploration]

Corn and beer, big thumbs up!

[@1misago]

I wonder if the more uneven crumb with larger holes from applying more pressure was rather like the effect ne gets from focaccia where dimpling forces some of the air pockets to merge.

[@catherinecomyn5166]

How do you get the loaves to slide out of the banneton so easily? My loaves are sticking (despite flour) and I have to use a knife around the edges, which makes it lose structure.

[@madalynchristian6887]

How do you cover the loaf on the stone?

[@myshinobi1987]

At what point do you add your levain? X1.5? X2?

[@sirkid8553]

why can't we save your videos to watch later? excellent video!

[@ChristianBlandford]

Wonderful, can I ask how you managed to put together than handy proofing chamber?

[@CulinaryExploration]

Hi Christian, here's the link for the video on the proofing chamber - kzbin.info/www/bejne/nX3Ym3amZ7FjhNk

[@ChristianBlandford]

Hi mate, just bought a bread proofer which lets me ferment things in a box at an exact temperature. I figured I wanted to try one of your recipes with it because I think you’re mathematic approach can prove to be very helpful for me! Do you have a recipe with temperatures? If so, mind sending me the link?

[@CulinaryExploration]

I don't online Christain, I'm still working through the temperatures. Can you ping me an email and I'll send you one by email? - [e-mail]

[@Oho159]

that bread..... master perfection

[@brucedianehall2086]

Hi Phillip, I recently found your website and have enjoyed several of your videos. In your last video you mentioned previous bakes that left a sticky residue on your slicing knife. It is something that happened to me more often when I was first baking sourdough and consistently under proofing. I have had it happen recently even after a 75% increase during bulk and making sure the bread was baked properly ( internal temp, color) and waiting to cut ~ approximately 4 hours. In addition to the knife residue the bread crumb felt a bit sticky also. Any thoughts on what causes the sticky residue? Thanks in advance for your help.

[@CulinaryExploration]

Hi there, I have mainly had that problem when I've under proofed my loaves and I don't think I've experienced it due to underbaked loaves. I'll definitely be diving into that issue in more detail and hope to have more to report in the near future, ATB Phil

[@brucedianehall2086]

Thanks Phil. The really odd thing for me is that on a previous bake I had one loaf come out with irregular open crumb and sticky blade while the other was a nice even crumb and no sticky blade residue. The only difference that time was different loaf shape, boule vs. batard. All other factors identical. Very odd. Looking forward to more learning moments in your future videos.

[@CulinaryExploration]

@@brucedianehall2086 I'm looking forward to digging a bit deeper, hopefully I'll find some useful info

[@ambrosewetherbee8301]

Interesting results of lighter vs. higher pressure applied during shaping. Regarding the next experiment with scoring, I'm hoping you'll try a more horizontal positioning of the blade when making an incision. It should result in a more pronounced ear and assist in opening up the dome.

[@CulinaryExploration]

I'm not 100% sure yet, but I know the angle of the blade is of interest to a lot of people. Have you experimented with that Ambrose?

[@ambrosewetherbee8301]

@@CulinaryExploration I've found that I can exert a degree of control over the behavior of the blooming of the bread by how I position my blade when making incisions in dough before baking. When I position the blade more perpendicular to the surface of the dough and cut, there is far less blooming and unpredictable ear formation. When I position the blade more horizontal/parallel to the surface of the dough and cut, blooming is maximized and ear formation is predictable. Using a lame assists my horizontal aligned scoring. All of this is assuming my dough is appropriately proofed. Under or over proofed dough will largely negate my efforts to control blooming and ear formation.

[@CulinaryExploration]

@@ambrosewetherbee8301 Cheers Ambrose, appreciated

[@ambrosewetherbee8301]

@@CulinaryExploration I look forward to your next video!

[@CulinaryExploration]

@@ambrosewetherbee8301 Cheers bud

[@philip6502]

Curious question here: Why the interest in the look of the ear... unless one is selling bread and seeking a uniform style?

[@keviningram1914]

I have had similar results with your recipe ratios (70% hydration 15.2% leven) using standard Tesco very strong bread flour. I have combined the method from another Ytube (How to Make better Sourdough Bread) . Oddly enough I get a better regular even open crumb when using shaping using this more of a degassing method. Just shows there's many ways to get the same results.

[@CulinaryExploration]

Couldn't agree more Kevin

[@zanaros2606]

Will the crumbs disappear if you simply de-gas and push out all the air after bulk ferment?

[@brendapeter446]

would love to see you work with freshly milled flour - Whole different beast lol!

[@MrGiantgonads]

What brand of flour do you use?

[@kennykennington5876]

Interesting video again Phil. I have been using a mix of seeded flour and strong white (Roughly 80:20), and have been using your stretch and fold method. My kitchen averages 21/22c so I don't use a proofing chamber. Just got one on the go now, so will see how it turns out, and if the addition of seeds affects the bulk proofing time.

[@CulinaryExploration]

Cheers Kenny, I'm interested to know how your loaf turns out, keep me posted

[@happypiper7669]

Thanks for the video. I just wonder. What do you do with the dough in the glassjar that you used to monitor your fermentation? Do you put it back in the breads when shaping or just discard it?

[@CulinaryExploration]

Hey Happy Piper! I don't if I'm doing an experiment but if I used a control piece of dough for my everyday baking I would definitely include it. ATB Phil

[@happypiper7669]

Ok, thanks! Thinking about it, you could also add some flour to it to make a doughball, put it in a jar and use it the next time you bake.

[@CulinaryExploration]

@@happypiper7669 For sure, you mean to use it as a starter piece of dough? I've been playing around with that over the last couple of weeks

[@happypiper7669]

@@CulinaryExploration Exactly, it would be a very efficient use of sourdough. I'm only little concerned if the prescence of salt will effect the yeast and the doughs capacity to rise the main dough. Sometimes I put in the salt after the autolyse and in that case it would be very easy to just remove a sample before adding the salt. But I guess that the amount of salt will be very small after you add some flour to it so it might not make a difference. I found that the easiest way for me to keep a starter is to have a little ball of dough with a relativly low hydration and keep it in room temperature. It will continue to ferment and the yeast really build up. Next time I bake I just dissolve the ball in water, add some fresh flour and wait for it to double in size and then bake. That approach hasn't let me down so far.

[@CulinaryExploration]

@@happypiper7669 I don't think the salt is a problem. I've had good success over the last few weeks. As much as I enjoy playing around with temp control and being exact with measurements, I also enjoy baking by feel.

[@frankfurter7260]

@2:40: The dough didn’t “increase TO 75% of its original volume” (which would be a decrease in volume) it increased BY 75% of its volume.

[@CulinaryExploration]

Cheers Frank

[@ter8330]

I prefer all the holes! Best way to eat that bread!

[@Simplycomfortfood]

You know Phil, my wife really gets mad at me when I degas........oh you mean sourdough....well it is pretty sour..🤭🤭okay okay. I seem to have a hard enough time trying to ferment long enough to get the gas, the last thing I want is knocking it all out while shaping. I remember the first time I made Ciabatta Bread. High hydration and all puffed up. It took really light hands to get into a shape and onto a couche cloth without degasing the dough.

[@ebtissamalmohanadi9952]

😍😍😍😍😍😍please what kind of baking stone is yours

[@CulinaryExploration]

It's a stone cut from lava rock :)

[@downside1237]

I have to be honest, I'm not that much into baking bread. I've tried it a few times; it's fun.. it's definitely a challenge. But if anything at all keeps me from really getting into it; it would be patience with the process. The seemingly endless frustration With the end results and even more so with the manner in which people explain it more than demonstrate it. However these videos.. specifically and only these videos make me want to get into it again.

[@CulinaryExploration]

If you do get into it again, let me know how you get on and drop me an email if you need any pointers, and I'll do my best to help out. Appreciate the comments :)

[@artvandelay1555]

I am surprised that you can do 5 hours at 75 degrees. I might be under proofing, although it seems ready at 3.5 hours. I get a very good ear and lot's of oven spring, but the interiour is not exactly what i am looking for. I will try the easy method of shaping. Any tips? Thanks

[@CulinaryExploration]

My tip is to experiment. Your fermentation times will be influenced by your starter, the temperature, the hydration, and the flour you use, there are so many variables. Don't get too hung up and other people's time, they are good for guidelines, but I avoid setting them in stone. Why don't you try to push the fermentation period out of your comfort zone and see what happens? I've probably learnt the most in the shortest period of time when I have pushed the boundaries. I hope that helps :)

[@CaptianK]

How old is your sourdough starter? I believe this also has a fairly big factor. A more mature sourdough being months old will produce better quality than one that’s 8-10 days old.

[@tarachristie472]

Interesting! I had wondered if I was handling my dough too carefully and was deliberately firmer with it today during shaping. I’m wondering if I will have the same result tomorrow morning.

[@CulinaryExploration]

Let me know what happens Tara :)

[@tarachristie472]

@@CulinaryExploration Not good Phil! 😂 I also did a couple of gentle coil folds during bulk ferm which I was dubious about but thought I’d test it out. Not a good idea. Everything looked great in the banneton. Slight issue when it turned out but not enough to degass the whole loaf. Anyway, zero oven spring! Won’t be doing that again. I changed another parameter though. I queried my starter so I bought some 40yr old starter online and fed it as directed with rye flour making a thick toothpaste consistency which is heavier than what I usually use. I don’t know if that effected things too. I’m using the new starter again in todays dough but going back to your method and only changing that one parameter. I’ll be shaping very gently as I normally would and no coil folds either lol 🤞🏼

[@CulinaryExploration]

​@@tarachristie472always worth experimenting, you are brave changing two things at once lol

[@tarachristie472]

@@CulinaryExploration I think stupid might be a more accurate word in this circumstance. Lol Always worth having a go though. At least I know what not to do now. Bread still tastes good and the crumb is tighter… it just resembles a biscotti when sliced. 😣😳

[@tarachristie472]

@@CulinaryExploration Things turned out much better this morning! Carried on using the new starter but dropped the additional coil folds and returned to a more gentle shaping. Success! Phew! Thought I’d lost my mojo. Lol

[@Alex-ck4in]

To be honest Im not convinced - both loaves had open pockets in different regions, and comparable crumb otherwise... shaping technique in general is a big factor in how the bubbles form in the final loaf, and I'm wondering if the large top pocket of the aggressively-shaped loaf is actually a result of increased surface tension, as opposed to the fact the dough was degassed. IMO, to test this, I'd prefer to degass the dough completely, prior to shaping. Punch it in and deflate it while it's still in the bowl, and then proceed to shaping both loaves with the same level of tension/aggression. Just some thoughts! Great video all the same!

[@CulinaryExploration]

Cheers Alex!

[@darryljoyner]

Wow 66% hydration and 25% starter. I've been doing 70% hydration and only 20% starter. The loaves have gotten what I'd call above average spring but not what I'm really desiring. I'm going to try your ratios on my next bake.

[@CulinaryExploration]

Hi DJ, are you including the starter in your hydration calculations?

[@darryljoyner]

@@CulinaryExploration So your higher percentage of starter is taking the 66% up to 70% hydration. I've been thinking I was at 70% when actually I'm ending up at more like 73%. For two loaves I've been doing 800g flour, 560g water, and 160g starter which has resulted in a high hydration without the proper percentage of starter. Which would explain the substandard spring and ear. I now see for about that same size dough I should be more like 800g flour, 536g water, and 200g starter. Glad I found your video. Never stop learning.

[@MegaFregel]

@@darryljoyner while 3% or 4% hydration can make a difference the biggest difference is probably the flour. I’d say anything from 65% to 75% (or even higher) hydration should work on any high protein flour.

[@elizabethheyenga9277]

I tend to feel like I have to rush shaping so I'm working on slowing it down. I try to be on the gentle side but in charge lol

[@CulinaryExploration]

You can take your time during shaping :)

[@shilohmjh7628]

What if you don’t have a fermentation chamber?

[@CulinaryExploration]

You definitely do not need a fermentation chamber. If you do need to manipulate the temperature for proofing there are some cheap hacks out there. A seedling heat mat can be used to increase the temp, I've used one successfully inside of a cool box. In the summer I use the same cool box with ice bricks to reduce the temperature.

[@checkwhatsleft4565]

What was the size of ur banneton?

[@CulinaryExploration]

Hey there. The bannetons are listed on my equipment list on the website and in the description :)

[@chrissiewindsor]

Both loaves would have me busting with pride! I follow all the steps religiously, yet I get very varied results. I mean, cast iron discuss type results! That was when I forgot to score it, though. It’s true though that my results vary hugely, but they are perfectly edible. We’re getting on a bit now, & I find a loaf cooked in a bread pan is a bit easier on the teeth, anyway!

[@cherylperkins7538]

Well, this video now makes me realize this is far too difficult for me to attempt. How did they make bread 50 years ago before all this crazy technology ??

[@weaponson3-158]

Bread. Nom nom

[@elnywidjaja9885]

So which one you prefer most, pressure or none?

[@katiez5660]

I confess. I’m a degasser. I love the feel of the dough. 😕

[@CulinaryExploration]

Nothing wrong with that! :)

[@cathyjones4702]

The Carl Sagan of Sourdough

[@man0sticks]

Your formula calls for a total of 930 g. of flour and 652 g. of water, starter included. I’m curious why you don’t simply make a 1 Kg. recipe. Standard practice in baking, multiples of 1, 10 Kg. Makes everything so much simpler. For a 70% dough, 600 g. water, 200 g. starter, 900 g. flour, 20 g. salt. Yes, it’s slightly more dough, and slightly less starter, but the differences would be negligible.

[@tanyaerskine7657]

Post a video of your own recipe with end result, and we can decide who did it better.

[@aliwasati5802]

That's a good question

[@tassostsoutis601]

Please open a bakery in Athens...

[@CulinaryExploration]

Do you think this sort of sourdough would fly here Tasso?

[@joebradford507]

​@@CulinaryExploration I second tassos! Bread of the quality you make is very hard to find!! In fact I would very much appreciate a tip on where you buy your flour from. Ive found in the super markets 'strong' flour is 12% protein but can buy robin hood brand at 13% but pretty costly! I began my sourdough exploration in spain and since moving to athens only just started to bake again and its like beginning at the start trying to learn timings and flours!! Thanks for the videos, the information is invaluable!

[@tassostsoutis601]

@@CulinaryExploration Definately. Good bread is rare here. A proper croissant is non existent.

[@CulinaryExploration]

@@tassostsoutis601 So you aren't having the popular chocolate croissant with your morning Frappe? There is a new sourdough store called black salami in Exarchia, I haven't been but I think they focus on sourdough sandwiches and bake fresh bread

[@CulinaryExploration]

@@joebradford507 Nice one Joe. Drop me an email and I'll give you as much info as I can to help out. You'd be welcome to some of my starter if you don't have one up and running. [e-mail]

[@bigbrain296]

I'm not an expert but I think the doming of the harsh one may have come from the fact that it was slightly underproofed since you knocked more gas out. I remember reading that underproofing causes large tunnel and slight bulging on the top. You may wanna look into what happens if you proof the harshly shaped one to the same volume as the normal one.

[@MegaFregel]

I think it’s more likely he pushed the evenly spread gas into larger gas pockets. Much like you would do when making Neapolitan pizza where you push the gas into the crust.

[@jonnifjader]

Very helpful and interesting. Thanks! How long do you wait after fridge retard before baking? 🤓☀️

[@jeremiahstone5285]

Probably the one with pressure just pushed the air into one area

[@shawnlandreth2779]

I like scoring an “s” on the top. Both look yummy

[@CulinaryExploration]

S scoring looks fantastic!

[@strangerintheselands251]

Can't see any difference, to be honest. You must have fine tuned your eyes as well. For me they're both amazing loaves, super airy and light, with beautiful crumb. I though pressing hard would make the latter be completely dense inside.

[@lupusdeum3894]

I'm not big on degassing. Other than the occasional burp . . . 😎

[@kathryngannon485]

How come you're not overweight eating all that lovely bread?

[@amirabdollahi1449]

As I am not a rocket scientist and have no instrument of biological warfare, told KZbin to not show any other video such as this one.

[@barrychambers4047]

You're too funny!!!! 🤣🤣🤣

[@bostonbesteats364]

That was completely unconvincing lol

[@chrisgulbranson5867]

Proofing, not proving.

[@CulinaryExploration]

👏

[@sallyarmstrong8578]

Way to make it way too complicated than it is to make a lovely tasting loaf. If your starter has lots of flavour then so will the loaf.

[@dewynoodle7674]

I used to make loaves with much more spring and rise, but these days they are much flatter. I have just changed my water filter, let's hope it's that, because the more experienced I get, the worse the loaves😖🥴🫣