Stop Designing in CMYK!

[@c-note4146]

I found an incredible amount of value in the information presented, and appreciate your sharing of this greatly. Note: I’m not sure if perhaps, while editing this presentation, the couple of retakes I noticed were left to be included or possibly overlooked. One happened around the 16 minute mark and the other around 18:20…just in case you wanted to cut those. Thanks again for this awesome upload

[@LeeManevitch]

Thank you! I only noticed the mis-edits after the video had been up for several days. Unfortunately, KZbin's algorithms penalize heavily for reuploading content and so in order to keep my channel from not being recommended I really had no choice but to leave this as-is. We're learning together. 😁

[@c-note4146]

@@LeeManevitch I was unaware of this. Thanks for the tip. First video I’ve seen of yours, from suggested. Great content, subbed up and excited to learn more

[@kaitlynlabow1815]

Thank you! It never made sense to me that people only suggest making artwork in CMYK but wouldn’t suggest converting a photograph to CMYK before printing, and we all know photographs are RGB and print beautifully

[@charliecross2]

I work as a graphic designer in house at a company where we have digital large format printers in house. A few Vutek machines, some roll, some hybrid with dts, also HP latex printers. My pre-press people always get frustrated that I'm sending them RGB files. But I have maintained this practice because of what you're describing here. The vibrancy of color is just not comparable if I'm using even sRGB compared to SWOP and I don't want to sacrifice the extra vibrancy. I still get some uncertainty on some blues when I'm sending to print from RGB. Can I get more certainty by matching the profile that the RIP is using? We're on Caldera for the RIP. Typically I'm sending sRGB sometimes Adobe1998 and may switch to that exclusively. Sorry if not clear, just to reiterate what's the best way to minimize shifts in blues and sometimes blacks being too dark from RGB. Thanks for the helpful video.

[@LeeManevitch]

If you're asking "should I design in my printer's output ICC profile" then no, absolutely not. By doing that you're not only limiting your color gamut to the printer's, which makes migrating to a different printer more difficult, but you're also introducing any printer shortcomings into your design. CMYK design should always be done using profiles that adhere to standards like GRACoL or SWOP; not based on actual measurements on a specific output device. In fact, keep in mind that the default behavior of all RIP software is to take any design - CMYK, RGB, or even Greyscale - and convert it first to Lab color. After that, it then converts to the output ICC. So if your prepress department is experiencing issues with your RGB files then either there's a problem with their RIP setup or with their output profiles...but it's not your artwork.

[@LeeManevitch]

PS for blues and blacks: Make sure you're choosing a blue that's actually possible to reproduce. You can see in the color picker if there's a gamut warning - a little yellow triangle - that tells you you're out of gamut. It may be by a little or it may be by a lot, but at least you'll have an idea. You can turn on the Proof preview to see how much it might change. Blacks...if 0-0-0 is laying down too much ink then that's a problem with your RIP...either the ICC black generation settings or the ink limit. Create a series of swatches with diminishing levels of black and print it, then determine what you should be using for "solid" black.

[@charliecross2]

@@LeeManevitch That last paragraph was what I was trying to understand. It's getting better results doing rgb > lab > ICC than if I just began in CMYK. I just didn't understand that RIP process, or the how it does it I guess. Thanks also for the blacks and blues tips.

[@benhazard21]

Awesome video Lee👍 I design and Print using the sRGB profile simply because I get better results with this approach. I use flexi RIP and the cmyk profile kept washing out, and shifting colours, I’m not sure why but switching to sRGB has significantly improved the output on my HP Latex.

[@LeeManevitch]

Thanks Ben! There are various "flavors" of both RGB and CMYK - there's no One True Profile™. So it's possible that, in addition to leaving color on the table by designing in CMYK, that your design and your RIP are not communicating properly regarding *which* CMYK profile you're working with. I always embed ICC profiles in my art, and I almost always (read: whenever possible) make sure that my RIP settings reflect the same working profiles that my design softwares are set to. But having said all that...just stick with RGB and enjoy the benefits. 😁

[@benhazard21]

@@LeeManevitch slightly off topic, and in regards to your latex printer; what's your approach when attempting to print those super high vibrancy royal blues and reds(yamaha blue, honda red)?. I believe I squeeze the best out of my latex but unsure if I can do better!

[@LeeManevitch]

It's a multistep process but the key points: 1. Sufficient ink density. You're not going to get Honda red at 90%, for example - I ride a Kawasaki so I can keep my ink costs down. 🤣 2. Good ICC profile for your printer/media/mode combination. Using the generics will get you 90% of the way but that last 10% comes from doing the legwork and building a profile on your printer. 3. Proper color-managed workflow. Make sure your design software and RIP are in agreement about your working profiles. 4. If the colors are specified as spot colors like Pantone 185 or watever, make sure you're designing with that spot color and not the process equivalent. Also with PMS color make sure you're using Coated and not Uncoated. 5. Design in RGB - but you know that now, right? 😜

[@benhazard21]

@@LeeManevitch Hi Lee, another off topic question if I may😃 I think you mentioned that you are a HP latex user in your last video, If so you’ll probably be familiar with the Latex characteristics. I have a question relating to that grainy print that is commonly associated with latex. I find it to be worse in greys and light hues. 95% of the work I print is vector, but on the odd occasion I do print raster it always surprises me how good the results are. And possibly less grain! Is it possibly that the way the rip interprets vector and raster, can significantly effect output? I know that’s quite a broad question, but what I’m trying to get at is: is it possible that you could achieve better output in colour range and print quality if you rasterised your artwork? Possibly a silly question but it’s been racking my brain for some time! Let me know your thoughts. Regards, Ben.

[@LeeManevitch]

​@@benhazard21 Rasterizing won't do anything in this case. When you see grain in any print, you're generally looking at the limitations of the printer - attributes of both the drop size and placement strategy. Smaller drops and the use of light inks generally mitigate some grain, but it's *always* there - see my video on resolution to see why any digital print is really just an optical illusion. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqq3cqqYn8ueesU If you're not already, in your greys make sure you're printing them 4-color and not black-only or the grain will for sure be more noticeable. Below about 30% black, if you're printing full-color, you'll hardly be using black ink at all. Printing those light greys using mostly CMY will fill in the gaps and make the grain less evident.

[@RahulSharma-mo1kr]

Lee, thank you so much for this video. I am new to software such as Adobe Illustrator & Affinity Designer. I am using the Redbubble platform and they insist that I use CMYK to create my designs and then to export out as RGB with transparent background. I am getting more and more confused can you advise please. Could you provide a link for the software that you have shown in this video. Thank you, Rahul.

[@LeeManevitch]

First, the easy question: I can't give you a link to the actual software I used for comparing color gamuts because it's proprietary software. But if you look at gamutvision.com you'll find something very similar. The ICC profiling software I use is X-Rite i1Profiler and it's not priced for hobbyists but is definitely available for purchase. As for Redbubble: as I read their guidelines and tips & tricks pages it seems like they think they're doing you a favor...and perhaps they are. They're saying that if you start your design in RGB and then end up getting your products printed, that the colors might be very different from what you expect. To an extent they're 100% correct...if I design a green as 0-255-0 then there's no way they can ever match that. So they're saying to design in CMYK *specifically* because doing so limits your color, and they're able to match those colors better. I don't know their processes but it could be that they're using a low-gamut digital printing process where designing in CMYK would be best. In my video I mentioned this could be a possibility. The reason they have you convert to RGB is because they require transparent PNG files, so they can superimpose the graphics onto photos of the products on the website...so customers can see what the finished product will look like. But PNG files are RGB only, so that's why the requirement to send them RGB files - it's really a byproduct of them requiring transparent PNG images.

[@RahulSharma-mo1kr]

@@LeeManevitch Lee, I can not thank you enough for taking time out to give me a detailed explanation. This is sincerely appreciated by me. I have asked a number of people but with no end result. Right I will have to follow their guidelines. As I want to achieve the best print quality for the customer as an end result. But my concern is that they will see one thing on their screen and another with the actual product. Thank you so much. Regards, Rahul.

[@christinehill3142]

Most printers will print an RGB file and do the conversion to its own CMYK flavor. I honestly don't see much reason to send a CMYK file to a printer. It's like, you don't need a monochrome TV signal to watch a black-and-white TV. Just send the regular signal to the TV, and the black and white TV will display it in black and white. It seems unfair for print shops to require images in CMYK from customers. I know I'm gonna lose color on the print. But, if the printer does the conversion for me, that's gonna be WAY better than putting that color conversion burden on me.

[@LeeManevitch]

Agree! The common misconception is taht because a printer is CMYK that you'll somehow get "better" results if the design is also CMYK. The biggest problem with designing in RGB, though, is that a designer will choose WAY out-of-gamut RGB colors onscreen and then reject the job when what they get is nothing like what they expected. Honestly the biggest skill in the print business is managing expectations.

[@gkline8288]

I would love to stop using CMYK, but unfortunately there is no professional printer in our area that can print an RGB well. Is there a professional printer nationwide that can print RGB without altering it? My RGB designs are amazing compared to my CMYK. This is due to the fact that I love using gradient for my project covers.

[@LeeManevitch]

If your RGB designs are "amazing" compared to CMYK, then it's possible you're using colors that are way out of gamut for CMYK. You can flip the switch from RGB to CMYK in Illustrator and Photoshop to get an approximation of how your colors will change. I *ONLY* design in RGB when going to a digital printer; if I'm going to a press then I'll design in CMYK or I'll use PMS colors that I know will print with decent accuracy in CMYK. I don't know your printers but if they're using traditional SWOP ink colors then because you have no control over their print process you should be using CMYK as mentioned in the video. I have no recommendations on trade printers for you...that's way outside of my scope of expertise.

[@gkline8288]

@@LeeManevitch Yes, I already change it to CMYK in Adobe Photoshop. However, gradient patterns just don't often come out well at various professional printers. Often it leaves a lot to be desired as if they are running out of ink in appearance. I've been forced to use solid backgrounds to solve this. If someone ever comes up with RGB professional large print machines they may corner much of the market.

[@PaolaLaborda]

@@gkline8288 I think the most... infuriating part is that you can print those beautiful colors at home, but a professional can't make it. I just don't get it.

[@gkline8288]

@@PaolaLaborda Basically RGB has almost 2x the range of CMYK (Printer colors). If you use Photoshop it offers the ability to Change to CMYK colors so it comes out better. In Photoshop go to Edit, Convert Profile, then lastly select "Working CMYK - U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2" in the drop down menu. My last covers came out much more vibrant and with better contrast.

[@LeeManevitch]

When you print at home you're not using those industry-standard CMYK pigments but rather pigments that are brighter but won't match any other printer. Commercial printers need consistency even between providers, so they use standard colors that happen to be duller in color.

[@buthnice7570]

I design on canva and then upload it to redbubble,teebublic.... etc. Do the product colors change? Plz answer me

[@LeeManevitch]

I have zero experience with Canva and/or Redbubble so I have no way of knowing. Work with your provider (Redbubble) and follow their guidelines.

[@daleryanaldover6545]

really a useful insight

[@fernandos3979]

Hi Lee , aweesome video. Just to say you the last slide do not match what you are explaining

[@LeeManevitch]

Thanks! Oh good lord I lost some edits and never noticed!! There are a bunch of stops and starts and miscues. My software crashed and I *thought* I had all my edits saved. Evidently not. :-( Unfortunately KZbin's analytics really don't favor a re-release of a video so I guess I'll have to add some annotations on the video to explain what I really meant.