STOP Gliding & Counting Strokes for Smooth & Effortless Swimming with our Stroke Rate Ramp Test!

[@markgrant5305]

I just wanted to say a big thank you to you. Your clips showed up in my KZbin feed this week. I’ve shaved three seconds off each lap in a 25m pool just by speeding up my stroke rate by eliminating the glide. And as you explained, it’s about finding the sweet spot. A modest increase in strikes per lap (five) has made all the difference. I found I wasn’t tired by making this adjustment. Quite the opposite. From 35sec per lap to 32sec over an 80 lap swim. If I put the afterburners on and just swim four laps, this drops to 28sec per lap. This is a massive leap forwards for me. Now I’m going back to the first video in this series so that I can learn how to swim without a pull buoy and do everything properly. Btw, I’m 70 and have always been a breaststroker (for 60 yrs) and taught myself freestyle three years ago when my chiropractor advised me switch strokes after I sustained a back injury. Thank you again.

[@swimsmooth]

That is brilliant Mark. Please do keep us posted and join along with the new 8-week improver initiative starting this week at www.swimsmooth.com

[@jeromedominicguegan4850]

Thank you Paul for this video! Focusing on timming and stroke rate rather than counting stroke!

[@swimsmooth]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Stinktierchen]

I am not a professional swimmer but I swim since I am a baby and never had a coach or went to swimming classes. I never understood why the heck people thought that gliding makes any sense. (There is only one way of gliding I think makes sense"for me", that is in my own developed reverse butterfly breast-stroke-dolphine kick style, because swimming on your back makes your body less resitant and gliding makes sense in a way). I had to develop my own swimming technique since nobody told me how to do it right. When I first noticed that I have a constant crawl with no gliding and I saw other people in pools glide, I thought I had to try it because it looks "better" and each time when I did it I felt that my speed lost consistancy and I never cared to incorporate the glide in my swimming style. Now I can see why. Naturally it felt wrong because I felt that I moved esthetically better but not physically. So I had never adopted a gliding style even watching others do it, I didnt care. I am mostly an opend water swimmer and I love opend sea swimming where waves and water currency always has a serious effect on you. Gliding in such environments makes it even much worse than in a pool. And sea water is even "denser" than sweet water. (the resitsance is higher) A swimmer should, at the end of the day always figure out what works better for him and what feels better. Of course this takes years to find out. If you want to learn fast you get a coach. I swim for almost 40 years now and am still learning each time I swim.

[@swimsmooth]

Awesome feedback - where are you based?

[@alisonwilks302]

You said in a previous video that you can't learn to swim from KZbin , but if like me you can swim but you are going nowhere these videos are invaluable . I can now recognise things I was just totally blind to previously. Thank you so much ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️

[@swimsmooth]

Really pleased to hear that we’ve been of some help Alison. What would you say has helped the most? And what would you say you already knew?

[@andreizelchenko934]

Thanks! Great work! Lot of helpful things for me as an adult swimmer👍 My opinion: if you can glide without loosing much speed - glide more. If you you can not glide good, your shoulders, feets not stretched etc - than increase stroke per minute (me).

[@swimsmooth]

Thanks Andrei - be wary of the peaks and troughs when gliding 👍

[@tariqedward3537]

How do you use this for the other strokes such as butterfly, breaststroke and backstroke? Do you carry out the same procedure like freestyle?

[@lorrainemcphillips681]

I loved these videos. They have given me a lot to think about and I feel like I now have some opportunities to improve. I was always to told to glide long and lean on my arm and have constantly failed at doing that. Now I don't feel quite so bad 🙂

[@swimsmooth]

Really glad they’re helping Lorraine. If you had to pick a single point that’s made the biggest difference, what would it be?

[@barehusk]

Thanks for great insights. I found the "efficiency" case with same speed with 1) lesser strokes offset with more kicks versus 2) more strokes offset with lesser kicks valuable insight. The higher exertion (higher heart rate and VO2) in 1) means that this case consumes more on the body than case 2) with the same speed. That would point towards that the gained stroke-rest (less expelled force while gliding) is lower than the increased kicking work force needed to maintain speed. Meaning kicking costs more force than strokes in terms of swimming speed here. With limited fuel (O2 in lungs) the more efficient use of power would then be to maximize the strokes torque, since the legs propulsion is less efficient in the work direction, between the two propulsion systems. A strong swimmer (large O2 capacity) could potentially maximize the arms power output and therefore spend the remaining capacity on more kicks, but only then. Any more kicks would lessen the forward efficiency. How I visualize this then is that the arms climb the waters mostly with the intended velocity, while the legs vibrates the water streams exiting behind the body. The efficient power output from the legs are expelled mostly in up- and down motions since we don't jump on waters in the intended direction. The directional force of the turbulent streams provided from the kicks gives the forward motion. The excessive energy in the turbulence is wasted in all other directions. A portion is spent on kicking the lower body higher on the surface providing lesser drag, but the net efficiency is still inferior to the strokes. When it comes to trying to maintain continuous speed, as much as possible, I think that's a given. Any acceleration-to-deceleration give more net drag and is more costly than trying to maintain average speed. Gliding is strongly rooted in many, I still have it because that's how I was taught. I am not an expert- nor Olympic swimmer, so it's hard to convey this point as the mediocre swimmer that I am. That being said, this gives sense to me. Thank you!

[@swimsmooth]

Very glad to be of assistance 👍

[@yakiengel7489]

There is something that I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere, regarding stroke rate. In swimming (unlike any other sport that I’m aware of) stroke rate and breathing rate are coupled - you can’t breath at a higher rate than your stroke rate. This means that increasing one’s stroke rate can potentially be used to consume more oxygen - a free lunch of sorts. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts about that.

[@swimsmooth]

Yes that’s totally correct. I mentioned it specifically in the first video on breathing but this is exactly why overgliders with slow stroke rates struggle to breathe more than every 2. Nice observation!

[@infovidasupps8640]

For the last person why not 68 strokes per minute? He rated a 7.5 VS 7 for 56 and he was almost a second faster

[@paulnewsome5933]

68 would be a good tempo for Scott when he's doing some CSS based intervals, but 56 was good for his endurance work.

[@twiggyfitness]

Good information - I fixed my crossover but couldn't figure out my scissor kick when I breathed. Now I get it. At 5'5", I gotta keep that stroke rate moving.

[@phil5037]

Katie Ledecky is a really good example of this. For a distance swimmer she has a very high stroke rate, but she is almost not kicking at all.

[@swimsmooth]

Ledecky’s leg kick “tactics” are amazing. She starts the 800 with almost the whole 50m as 2-beat with a little 6-beat before the wall. As the race progresses so too does the point when she brings in the 6-beat. She can do this because she hasn’t gassed herself at the start of the race. It gives the impression via the metrics that her stroke length is increasing the further into the 800 she gets, but she’s just getting more contribution from the legs…which of course is what this whole video is really about…how to strike the right balance between rate and length whilst managing the effort from the legs according to your event and physiology.

[@tonyshihoutang6576]

Yeah. Katie using one beat kick to reduce lung capacity consumption. 1500 mostly using less kick style

[@chrismcconnell4336]

Glad I found this, off to watch the series. Only just started getting back into swimming, trying open water, I would love to swim like the lady at 27:00 that looks so effortless

[@swimsmooth]

Thanks Chris - let us know how you get on?

[@JeanRobertStrele]

Thanks Paul. I'm your typical overanalyzing glider. Tall, skinny, and an engineer! This video series got me refocused on swimming. Got myself a swim coach again to train 2/week for now. Santiago also likes the idea of SwimSmooth coming to LatAm sooner rather than later...

[@swimsmooth]

Totally on my bucket list Jean-Robert!

[@davidkerr8722]

Me too, apart from not being so skinny anymore! My swim type (self analysed) is overglider. I think about getting a coach but they have their own ideas and I like Paul and the swimsmooth approach. Small dilemma! I'm not good enough or training for an event to travel and spend the money on a London based swimsmooth coaching session or course. I'd use the guru but it seems to be nearly discontinued?

[@swimsmooth]

@@davidkerr8722 our London-based Swim Smooth Coaches are excellent David and I would strongly encourage a session with them if these are your locals. The Guru has just been relaunched at www.swimsmooth.guru and well worth considering too 👍

[@lsmoothw]

This stuff is gold! I’m a new swimmer and my stroke rate is in the mid 40’s but I seem so do better when my stroke rate is over 60. I’ll try to do your test when I get a tempo trainer.

[@swimsmooth]

Thanks Lamar - really glad it's struck a chord - let me know how you get on?

[@kvsdude]

Paul, I love your book and am getting some good stuff out of the videos, but please, cool it down on the radio DJ sounds!

[@swimsmooth]

Not sure I follow?

[@bradpowell2506]

Great series Paul, and thanks for the recent video analysis session. Game changer, times in the pool instantly dropped with little effort. Hoping you have a Rottnest training squad for 2024, would be good to train with fellow Solo swimmers, and get into the 130's CSS club! Currently at 141s.

[@kurth704]

Interesting thoughts! I'm in taper now, so just more to think about when I get back at it next round! Thanks for the whole 5-part series Paul - G.O.A.T.!!!!

[@swimsmooth]

Thanks Kurt and good luck!

[@НурикОмарев]

What you are saying is valid for those who have rock solid stroke technique. So that they can concentrate on speed.

[@K_Yonq]

Excellent stuff. How do we apply the ramp test findings to training and swimming longer distances. Should we try to stick with the sweet spot stroke rate? Does it change for threshold pace or steady swim? I find it gives me optimum speed and efficiency over 50m but still takes a lot more energy than swimming slower with a slower stroke rate which I can maintain for a 1hour swim. Is there a conversion for longer distances or for those who are unfit?

[@swimsmooth]

Recommendation is to get that sweet spot defined (and the test will likely show two spots per the video) and then work around those numbers between your different distances 👍👍

[@robohippy]

Well, someone needs to do an in depth study of the gallop style freestyle. To date, I have not seen one. The young woman, Janet, does what I would call classic gallop style, and she is doing it more like a sprinter than a distance swimmer. The head comes up out of the water higher than what most coaches like. The breathing side arm drives down and forward for adding more power to the body rotation and stroke. The stroke is not the classic even tempo stroke, but a quick 1, 2, a slight pause and then repeat. The non breathing side is the one that extends out a bit and pauses. When it pulls, the recover arm makes a quick #2 pull. As near as I can tell, what this does is makes the trough a bit less than the even cadence arm stroke because of the quick 1, 2, which means they come closer together, so less of a trough. I would guess that the trough also might be a bit less on the breathing side because of the porpoising action and the extra downward and forward drive on the breathing side arm. Some do call the gallop style 'hybrid style' for those who believe that there is hip driven, shoulder driven, and hybrid. As far as I am concerned, it is mechanically and physically impossible for the lower body to drive anything in the water because there is nothing for the feet to anchor on to provide rotation like you can in ground sports, but that is another discussion..... As for that kick that is slightly wider, in my experiments with the over arm side stroke and the scissor kick, I have called that a snap kick, which is to the scissor kick what the whip kick is to breast stroke old school frog kick. Lower profile/stream line/less drag than the full scissor kick. Note that his upper leg, down to the knee, is pretty much perfectly in line with his torso. This means there is almost no drag created by the knee. The heel and lower leg, which is a much more streamlined surface than the knee would be adding maybe a tiny bit of extra drag, but not much. If the other leg was flexing more at the hip and knee, like a scissor kick, this would put the thigh out into the slip stream and create huge amounts of drag. I did see a video with Brenton over at Effortless Swimming, and he was analyzing a Russian swimmer that was doing the same kick. For some reason Brenton called it a breast stroke kick. It is not. The number of people that do this in the pool is huge, maybe even a majority. Perhaps more so for those who swim the gallop style, because of that pause in the stroke. In looking at old videos of swimmers, this gallop style goes back to at least Matt Biondi. I did find one of Mark Spitz, and he was breathing every other stroke, but not much in the porpoising, and driving the breathing side arm forward and down. Another way of looking at that kick is that is more similar to the back stroke flutter kick, which uses less flex at the hip, and more knee, meaning the lower leg goes deeper than on freestyle flutter kick. My kick count for backstroke flutter kick is 6 to 8 kicks fewer than freestyle flutter kick per length of a 25 yard pool. Interesting to me is that the 50 meter sprinters have a stroke rate of just about 2 strokes per minute.

[@swimsmooth]

Thanks Rob - here's the overglider "kickstart" as we call it: www.feelforthewater.com/2012/04/overglider-kickstart_27.html - the "gallop" as you call it is particularly prevalent in male 200m freestylers who balance it with a very strong kick. My point in the video is that you can see Horton with a massive kick in the 400m, but unsustainable in the 1500m. His 2-beat kick in the 1500m has a massive scissor where the knee does drop too low (not as low as Scott or as my example in the article), but low nonetheless. I truly believe Horton could compete with Paltrinieri if he modified his stroke for the event...

[@robohippy]

@@swimsmooth In that blog post, yes, that swimmer's knee does come down into high drag position. May have to watch the video again. It didn't look like that swimmer's knee was moving that much, and his flutter kick was closer to the back stroke flutter kick. As for the gallop style, even Sun Yang used it. Katie Ledecky used it as well. They use it in any distance over the 50 meter 'splash and dash' as one coach commented. I think it more exaggerated in the shorter distances than longer ones. Gary Hall Sr. at Race Club commented that women process oxygen and lactic acid differently than men, and that is why all men seem to use the gallop style, and only some women use the gallop style.

[@katebeedot6964]

Wouldn't your last few lines on men vs women processing lactic acid depend on muscle mass, i.e. men having better processing skills anyway?

[@robohippy]

@@katebeedot6964 Kate, I don't know. I don't know the science behind it. Gary Hall Sr, and junior were both Olympic gold medalists, and they train Olympic hopefuls. My guess would be that muscle mass is not a determining factor, and the genetics of being male and female is.

[@petrkrysl9301]

As usual, Swim Smooth raised some important biomechanical considerations of swimming freestyle. I am not so sure about some of them. Talking about Romanchuk: When a swimmer is putting more effort into the same speed, they are certainly not more efficient! If more effort is put in, but the swimmer is moving faster: well, then some numbers need to be crunched. It does not follow that the efficiency went up. I would make a suggestion: when measuring the stroke rate, it would make more sense to measure the time for a given number of strokes (as Paul does). Not how many strokes a swimmer took per a given amount of time. The reason is simple: it is much more accurate to measure time than it is to measure the number of strokes. (How can one measure a fraction of a stroke?) Thanks for the video!

[@FranklinParkRam]

Paul - I wanted to encourage you today after seeing your email about Kelly Parker Palace. You are doing all the right things! The problem is not at your end. Unfortunately many people have no interest in improving and from your statistics it seems that older people are more keen to improve than younger people. Also I learned to swim freestyle as an adult by watching your videos and your work has been a huge blessing to me. You can't help people who don't want to be helped. God bless and wishing you and your team continued success.

[@swimsmooth]

Very sage advice - thank you!

[@davidkerr8722]

Thanks Paul. I'll give it another go on my overly slow SPM. I'll have to write it on a white board or something. It's a 25m pool so I'll just do 2 lengths per interval? I know I drop my arm when I breathe to the left. Loved the series

[@swimsmooth]

Correct - 2 lengths to make a 50m 👍 try to do the same length push off on each turn.

[@aboled]

Paul, when I swim slow, I am able to concentrate on my catch and pull, so I can utilize my core muscles in the process, whereas if I swim faster, I can tell that I am not utilizing the same amount of muscles, hence swimming more strokes per length. So, the slow stroke is not because of gliding per say, it's because of better concentration on the pull. What can I do to have it both ways, so to speak?. Thanks.

[@swimsmooth]

Striking a balance is key which is what the Swim Smooth Stroke Rate Ramp Test is all about. Certainly though, you’ll feel more force per stroke at a lower cadence than at the same speed with a higher frequency, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you’re engaging different muscles just that you’re able to feel them differently at the lower cadence.

[@baraklevy3344]

Sun yang with 27 strokes per 50m , 68 per.minute. insane considering he is also using 2-4 beat kick for the majority of the race.

[@joesyogafitness6085]

I have 63 stroke rate per minute. I use. 2- beat kick. I am 5’ 10” 160 lbs. I am training for a 13 mile open water swim. Should I increase my stroke rate? I am enjoying these videos. At 67 efficiency is key. Thanks for information! Very helpful.

[@swimsmooth]

Hi Joe - you've missed a key ingredient there based on the stroke rate ramp test for me to be able to answer this...your swimming speed...can you let me know at what speed you are swimming with 63spm? If you're between about 1:14/100m and 2:05/100m you're probably good. Faster than this, 63spm might be a tad slow for your height/build, slower than this, too fast for your height/build...

[@joesyogafitness6085]

@@swimsmooth Hi Paul, I swim about a 1:35 / 100 yard not meters. I think in the range you mentioned. I am enjoying your videos and I like your sense of humor too. Thanks!

[@swimsmooth]

@@joesyogafitness6085 thanks Joe, I guess someone has to ;-) you're on the right track!

[@colintallowin8524]

Tempo trainer - tried in the pool but due to high end hearing loss could not hear it over the noise of the water so sold it on.

[@swimsmooth]

My hearing is going that way too!

[@richardosullivan3177]

I’ve used the Swimsmooth techniques from Paul’s book and videos as well as a single video analysis session with a Swimsmooth coach to bring my times down by almost 30 seconds per 100m. I have also hugely improved my maximum distances. But most importantly, I actually feel good when I swim now and I have to credit a large part of that to Paul’s advice and techniques. They actually work in real life for regular people.

[@swimsmooth]

Many thanks Richard and glad to see how much progress you’ve made - amazing!

[@tariqedward3537]

I want to try this test but we only have a 25m pool. Can the same be applied ?

[@swimsmooth]

Absolutely - just try to standardise the distance of the wall push-off at the turn. Still complete the test as 50m intervals. Let us know how you get on?

[@tariqedward3537]

@@swimsmooth ok will give it a try and let you know

[@eventhorizon3117]

Love this video and your insights. But ppl like Sun Yang and Thorpe were gliders. For Thorpe, perhaps his powerful kick made up for the pause but what about Sun? Sincerely like to hear ur views.

[@swimsmooth]

I think it's firstly worth bearing in mind what Thorpe himself has to say on both the topic of gliding versus efficiency and whether he was a glider himself: "I also aim to reduce the stroke count (during technique sessions). I've got it down to 24 per lap (in a 50m pool) which is about as low as I want it to get. I could reduce it by another four strokes but the danger is that l'd get to a point where I'm gliding rather than swimming efficiently" and then check out these articles: www.swimsmooth.com/free-resources/2012/03/overgliding-inefficiency-and.html and www.swimsmooth.com/free-resources/2015/07/glide-is-dirty-word.html and www.swimsmooth.com/free-resources/2014/04/the-fundamental-link-between-gliding.html and www.swimsmooth.com/free-resources/2011/08/our-stroke-analysis-two-best-1500m.html?rq=sun%20yang which actually include Sun Yang in the data too. Hope this helps.

[@jangaroo2011]

In keeping comments respectful, it is important for adults learning to swim without the benefit of being an age-grouper, or a triathlete learning how to swim fast, whilst still saving the legs...I submit that this technique flies in the face of what a Master swimmer can do in the Olympics: I suggest watching Sun Yang's Olympic 1500 for your review. What you see with your own eyes is that a neophyte's glide does not resemble a pro's glide in any way. You must consider this as data which "refutes the constant energy" (you call it efficiency) style. Constant applied energy, as you suggest, may be best for persons with little stroke feel (I call it efficiency), less muscle development in such persons as adults or triathlete nonswimmers.

[@swimsmooth]

Here's two articles I wrote on Sun Yang: www.feelforthewater.com/2011/08/stroke-analysis-two-best-1500m-swimmers_04.html and www.feelforthewater.com/2013/08/swim-smooth-analysis-2013-barcelona.html - which have been two of our most popular articles...of course, an obvious 'omission' is an update following the drug scandal, but let's not go there and the implications this may have had on this "super hero" performance.

[@katiaricci9296]

Amazing video Paul! It's so great that you share your love for swimming, it is such an amazing water sport and it's lovely to see you enjoy it, keep going with these great videos. If it doesn't bother you, I'd like to give you a suggestion, a tip for the next videos: Basically, you could try inserting some comic and funny stuff... to give everyone a pinch of humor that, in the world of swimming, diving and all water activities, can never be missing. Now, I don't think much of it, but the first thing I could think of in your sport might be peeing in the water. Once, my uncle, who is a scuba diver, peed in his wetsuit during a long diving session and that moment was absolutely funny, he even wrote "I’m peeing" on a waterproof notebook during the session. He has always been telling me that there are 2 types of divers and swimmers: those who pee in the water and those who lie. I know it may sound strange as a request but, in my opinion, these are moments of happiness and carefree that always make everyone smile. I hope you like the idea and I hope you have a wonderful day!

[@swimsmooth]

Many thanks Katia - interestingly enough I had someone else tell me to stop trying to be too funny and get more serious! LOL!

[@katiaricci9296]

@@swimsmooth What really? hahaha. I think you can handle it

[@swimsmooth]

@@katiaricci9296 yup - apparently too much "radio DJ" I think was the term used! Ha!

[@katiaricci9296]

@@swimsmooth Oh don't worry, I think it's ok to incorporate some humor, it could be hilarious, especially with the pee times, believe me LOL

[@tariqedward3537]

How do you use this ramp test for other steokes besides freestyle?

[@simsand23]

I'm sure I swim with a bit of a glide. If I increase my stroke rate I do feel a much nicer rhythm and better momentum. However, after about 50 meters I seem to get muscle fatigue (rather than cardiovascular) and revert to my older slower stroke rate. Not sure where to go from there.

[@swimsmooth]

Have you tried the ramp test? I'd start there if not...

[@simsand23]

@@swimsmooth thanks for replying. I lost my Finis Tempo - just off to buy a replacement!

[@simsand23]

@@swimsmooth forgot to say thanks for these videos- they are inspirational

[@swimsmooth]

@@simsand23 many thanks Andrew - you've just counter-balanced the trolls who're telling me "there's no content here" 👍

[@bene3445]

Does the efficient stroke rate change over time? I mean, when someone came from a pretty slow stroke rate it might feel to fast pretty soon but after a while of adaption maybe the new efficient stroke rate is even higher?

[@swimsmooth]

Absolutely correct, yes! It's an ever-developing thing!

[@bene3445]

@@swimsmooth Thanks for your answer, then i have to do the ramp test again 🙂 The playlist seems to be messed up a bit, can't find the first episode

[@splinterx123]

Hey Paul, If you want to swim at a slower speed (training, not racing), what should change, your stroke rate or your distance per stroke or both?

[@swimsmooth]

Good question - yeah a little of both. My SR will be about 68-71 steady, 74 for an endurance set and maybe about 78-82 for CSS…at the moment…I swam MIMS (46km) at 81spm so it will vary

[@tonyshihoutang6576]

i have compared gliding style can be faster than high stroke rate style. One gliding with body extend already creates leading to high stroke rate style

[@khashayarc]

When i was swimming as a teenager back in 15 years ago I always had argue with others over my consistent non-gliding strokes they all told me your wrong...by i could feel by instinct and even logic when its continious it must be better ! And even my recovery hand which always been criticized that why it's not high elbow ( i'm 178 cm my wing spawn is like 190cm tall person ) more like janet..

[@swimsmooth]

Glad you found YOUR way 👍

[@douglasnewton5399]

Great series. Until this I've been swimming (trying) Total Immersion/Adam Ocean Walker style swimming for the past 8 months .... with ok results. Their emphasis on transfer the body from side to side with a minimal flick of the feet and power supply from the core and arms with glide (dare I say) is very seductive. Total immersion also has it's own science to show the glide phase to be the fastest part of the stroke. Everything you say and they say feels valid as someone trying to improve technique (with help from You Tube). Would be good to see you 3 debate it all out and see what you've all got in common and explode the faults in the other methods. Although swim strikes can vary as you point out I'm sure there is a lot of commonality, but that wouldn't deliver a marketable USP. Struck by both yours and Terry Laughlin's impressive round Manhattan swims using opposing methods !!!!

[@swimsmooth]

Thanks Douglas - here's the Manhattan Island report - swimsmoothtips.blogspot.com/2013/06/paul-newsomes-winning-manhattan-race.html - which starts off with a discussion about the importance of rhythm over stroke count (especially in the open water). For reference, we are not seeking a marketable USP on any of what I'm putting out - and have put out for 20+ years - just sound, logical advice backed by real science. Thanks for watching and I hope it helps.

[@tariqedward3537]

How do you use this test for the other strokes?

[@silverash63]

So many swim videos contradict each other,I'm baffled

[@elizabethsabit3883]

See the video of the actual competetion, the compettion show the actual result ..

[@robohippy]

If any one is trolling this, I would say that Paul thinks outside the box, which is good. I ain't never been inside a box..... Well, except for box forts.....

[@swimsmooth]

Oh I've had my fair share of trolls over the years Rob - LOL! Thanks for thinking outside the box...the world needs this...kzbin.info/www/bejne/b169c2WFbcatf5o 👍

[@joemoya9743]

Nicely explained.

[@swimsmooth]

Glad you liked it

[@tariqedward3537]

How do can you use this test for a swimmer who only has access to a 25m pool?

[@oliviercloet1579]

Hi Paul, do you still have a link to the stroke rate calculator? Still loving your content after all these years!

[@swimsmooth]

Do you mean the chart itself or the CSS calc?

[@oliviercloet1579]

@@swimsmooth I actually mean the calc that you showed to Scott in the video around 30:59 when you compare Horton vs Paltrinieri

[@swimsmooth]

@@oliviercloet1579 thanks for clarifying. We will have to get that back out there!

[@gamer-ff6mh]

Wow these tips are so real!!

[@swimsmooth]

Glad you think so!

[@gamer-ff6mh]

​@@swimsmooth Can I please write you an email in order to share better? I really improved quite a bit due to your video.

[@swimsmooth]

@@gamer-ff6mh yes please do paul at swimsmooth.com

[@craighoover1495]

I have always enjoyed that pause in the glide as a time to rest. I will now likely think of this as a DEAD SPOT. I don't like the sound of THAT. So we shall see. Thank you!

[@swimsmooth]

Funnily enough Craig this is EXACTLY what Scott (the Overglider in the video) said to me, but sadly the laws of physics dictate that if you “rest” by gliding you will decelerate and slow down and it takes far more energy then to get you back up to speed. Let us know how you get on? It's not simply about increasing cadence and turning your arms over quicker, but working to eliminate the dead spot and allow the SR to then naturally come up...

[@craighoover1495]

@@swimsmooth I worked on it today. I tend to delay the pull until I sense a full catch. I am more aware now of not delaying unduly to keep momentum.

[@hadasitalki7247]

Thank you Paul❣️

[@swimsmooth]

You’re very welcome

[@paulwright1150]

I currently have a stroke rate of about 56 spm at the moment and swim around a 6:10 400. I’m 6’5 and about 212lb. I can’t make my arms go any faster. Where should I loose length in my stroke to increase stroke rate?

[@swimsmooth]

You’re not trying to lose length. 56 at 6’5” doesn’t sound too far off where it should be to be honest. But check out video 4 in the series. This will help a lot ✌️

[@valejul]

Fabulous!

[@swimsmooth]

Thanks so much for your support!

[@mattmyers31593]

Thanks for this video! I do a lot of slow steady state swimming. On those days I take it, it would be okay to have a slightly slower stroke rate in order to hit my desired heart rate?

[@swimsmooth]

The question I’d be asking Matt is, “Is your heart rate really as low as you think it is at a slow stroke rate” - it’d be useful for you to examine that especially with regard what the video shows about the tendency to often over-kick when rate drops too low. Let us know how you get on?

[@mattmyers31593]

@@swimsmooth thanks so much for the reply! I'm using FORM goggles and seeing both stroke rate and heart rate in real time. Pretty nifty tool! To clarify, I do some extensive swims where I keep my heart rate at 140. It's hard to get above a stroke rate of ~60 spm w/out my HR climbing. On harder sessions I can get stroke rate up to 75-80. I guess what I'm asking is, should my stroke rate be the same for all efforts? Or is it okay for it to drop a little on easier efforts? Thank you again from Los Angeles!

[@swimsmooth]

Hi@@mattmyers31593 from

[@mattmyers31593]

​@@swimsmoothcopy that! Super interesting to hear how your cadence range on your Manhattan swim! There definitely feels to be a dead spot at the front of my stroke that maybe is less pronounced at higher intensity. I might be a "mr. overglide..."Excited to play with that in my next few sessions / film myself to see any differences. Thank you again for all the great content!

[@qkayaman]

Love this series. Probably been told before, but your resemblance to Lee Mack (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Mack) is amazing 😂

[@swimsmooth]

Hahahaha! I’ve been told that a few times but I can’t see it myself! Lol!

[@LK-cj5wv]

Thank you!!!

[@swimsmooth]

You're very welcome

[@richardswaby6339]

I don't care. I am trying to improve my freestyle which means getting more power from each stroke. The best way for me to feel progress is the amount of glide that I get from each arm pull. Plus, as I don't have any intention to compete I just want to feel and look good while swimming. Windmilling my arms is not a good look. You gave an example of the number of pedal strokes a cyclist made but what about the steps that a 100m sprinter (runner) takes?

[@swimsmooth]

Not asking you to windmill your arms Richard, I'm highlighting the inefficiency that comes from deceleration within someone's stroke if they pause and glide too long. The ramp test expressly looks at the issues on the other end of the spectrum too - over revving. “Looking good” is a perfectly fine goal, but there are many ways of looking good AND swimming effectively per my examples in the video. If you don't care, you don't care. That's fine. Good luck to you and enjoy your swimming. That's the most important thing.

[@richardswaby6339]

@@swimsmooth Thank you for taking the time to reply to me. I shouldn't have said "I don't care". Just as in politics I will continue to look at views which are outside my bubble. I will watch the videos that you put out prior to this one.

[@joseluisah-12]

Hi! Paul. Thank you so much for these videos. Will it be possible to shoot a video explaining the details to consider running a Stroke Rate Ramp Test? As far as I understand the steps are: 1. Get a Finis tempo trainer (or something similar if exists) 2. Recruit a partner with sufficient skills to take lap time & count (correctly) strokes per minute. 3. Learn how to set the Finis tempo Trainer (kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4rOdaWnhLqaitk) 4. Ask your partner to count your strokes for 15 secs during a 400 mts drill (¿?). Multiply it by 4 to get your SPM number. 5. Subtracts 6 for your SPM number and set the pace in the Finis tempo trainer to start the 50´s. 6. Swim the 50´s taking note of Stroke rate set in the metronome (Don´t forget to adjust it every 50, add 3 spm), strokes per length (Who counts them? swimmer or partner?), time of the 50 (partner), level of effort (swimmer?). Comments (partner?). Paul please correct the steps and comment to improve them. I would like to run this ramp with my mates. Greets!

[@swimsmooth]

Not sure if you've seen this old chestnut Jose? kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5nFZYuGZ66Yqpo

[@joseluisah-12]

@@swimsmooth Thank you so much for the recommendation, I certainly hadn´t seen the video! It clarifies (for me) the procedure of the ramp test. Just two more doubts (better ask dumb questions than make dumb errors, ;): 1. The metronome is to be adjusted to the next step after each 50, ¿right? 2. There is a way to use this "data ramp" to find the sweet spot for short events (50´s or 100´s)? (I understood the "sweet spot" located with the ramp test is useful for "long events"). I really appreciate all your comments, cause I´m trying to use them in the pool as well as sharing them with my pool mates (we all are "60 and over" swimmers and many of them learned to swim in their 50s) so we all have plenty room for improvement! Congrats on your channel and effort to share methods and tips to swim better. Best wishes Paul.

[@swimsmooth]

@@joseluisah-12 hi Jose. That’s correct. Change after each 50m. Usually by 3, but you can vary this. The Ramp Test is primarily for distance freestylers but I guess there’s nothing wrong in trying it for sprinters too though I’d say that you incremental increases should probably be 1 or 2 rather than 3.

[@Cachoeira1986]

Let's consider Paul's comparison of the two elite cyclists at 20:05 or let's compare swimming with running for a while: Does an elite runner focus only on distance per step? The hell no! They focus on efficiency over all - that means exactly what Paul means. Distance per step/ per stroke is just one factor together with many others we have to consider.

[@swimsmooth]

Thanks for your input 👍

[@officielcommunication5361]

I use weight on the ankle, and no kicking, + paddle (Finis Agility Paddle). With that, you learn pretty quickly to swim efficiently if you do not want to drown (hahah). Plus, it give a lot of confidence to new swimmers, if they can do that, it is easy to go with a pull boy on the ankle for exemple. I personally can swim with 4 kilos (about 9 pounds) on the ankle on a 25 m pool. Beginner could do with 1 kilos usually. Great exercice to learn properly how to catch water, if you do not catch well, you slow down, and you sink (best feeling ever).

[@ernestvigil7761]

So much info. Good info, but so much

[@swimsmooth]

Thanks. I wanted it to be complete and as a resource going forwards for coaches as much as for swimmers 👍

[@bobdillen5641]

This is neither Welbrock nor Paltrinieri, its the guy very succesfully trying to swim like them....

[@swimsmooth]

Really?! If so I’ve been duped! Lol! Great demonstration of this is truly the case??

[@НурикОмарев]

You suggest a non professional who doesn’t even know how to make a proper high elbow stroke stop focusing on the quality of his or her stroke (by doing catch up stroke) increase the pace and completely damage their stroke?!!! For what????!!!!

[@swimsmooth]

Nope - I don't suggest that at all...what you're watching here is Part 5 of 5 from our Stroke Correction Hierarchy which can be viewed here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6ath4uVf9qHgKM

[@Fidillly]

Glide is real for breastroke. You underestimate streamline and biomechanic. There are billions of ways of swimming Freestyle.

[@swimsmooth]

I’m not sure Adam Peatty would agree with that - shortest, fastest stroke in breaststroke and holds 19/20 top fastest times of all time

[@ricardomorgan1418]

Stroke rate is like climbing on a bike: better keep it turning

[@swimsmooth]

You got it! Both are cyclical actions

[@davidkerr8722]

My cycle cadence is (or was!) about 90, but I have a friend who grinds far more slowly. We're both about the same height (nearly 6') though he has a far heavier build (obese but also much more powerful). He's a powerful swimmer too and his SPM is like mine (mid 40's). He really struggled using a higher SPM with my tempo trainer. I suppose I'm suggesting/asking that it's not as simple as height-to-SPM ratio? I think Pauls saying that the ideal stroke rate is situational - a variable thing based on height, ape index, fitness, strength, stroke development, event distance and type, etc. I find it all fascinating, but I need to focus on getting the "hard yards" in, not obsessing about optimising my stroke 100% of the time! 😃

[@swimsmooth]

@@davidkerr8722 oh, you’re quite right about not obsessing about this stuff, which is why if you’re able to identity from the video series where you need to be focusing, you can simplify that process. I mentioned in the last video also that aiming to be 80% perfect is much better than 110% for this very reason - too much tension comes from overthinking it ✌️

[@davidkerr8722]

Sorry to OP hijacking his thread. I swim 2 to 3 times per week but don't work to a plan, making it up as I go along. Hope the cramp doesn't hit (now supplementing with electrolytes in addition to stretching). Do about 1km total if I'm lucky. Slowly (approx 2:15/100m). It's not getting much quicker. I'll rewatch the series and identify weakest spots. Guru with a plan would help - is it available still?

[@swimsmooth]

@@davidkerr8722 oh yes, the Guru is still very much available and alive and well at www.swimsmooth.guru ✅

[@technoracko]

beginner swimmers no need to count stroke. Not new discovery

[@tonyshihoutang6576]

As I know the more you kick ,the more gas consumption of your lung would be

[@НурикОмарев]

Don’t listen to this man. Catch up freestyle is immensely enjoyable way of swimming. You really have time to concentrate on your stroke and feel the pleasure of traction with water. You may lose some speed. But so what?!!! This guy’s recommendation is for semi professional athletes for whom 1-2 minutes of time improvement really matter.

[@swimsmooth]

Hi there. Sorry for apparently ruffling your feathers here. If you've found an "immensely enjoyable way of swimming", that is wonderful news. Keep doing it if so - don't let me stop you (or anyone else for that matter). I will take this opportunity to point you towards Scott in the video at about 5:32 on the timeline. Scott came for his original session in 2010. He made over 30"/100m improvement to his speed within just a single session by removing some of his deadspot. Surprisingly for me though, he went home disappointed as he was taking a couple more strokes to complete each lap and said he missed the "pause and rest" between strokes. Scott didn't come back for a follow-up session for another 5 years (see the full story here: www.feelforthewater.com/2015/09/case-study-scott-overglider-5-years-on.html ) whereupon he told me that he fully rejected everything I'd told him in that first session for the first two (2) years (!), before realising he still wasn't swimming any better than he was before the session with me. He bit the bullet and re-watched the analysis and committed to making the change and came on leaps and bounds as a result. Sometimes, we can be so caught up in our want to be 'right' about something, that we become blinded to the science and evidence otherwise. Scott was anything but a 'semi-professional' athlete (nor are the vast majority of swimmers I work with). He wasn't intent on time improvements but was severely frustrated by his lack of improvement over his 2005-2010 solo training period when he kept trying to take fewer strokes to become more 'efficient'. It was never going to happen. That's the whole point of this video. I don't seek to sway you from your enjoyment of your swimming - far from it in fact - but I do seek to point people in the right direction for true efficiency and economy. If it helps you, great, if you're happy doing what you're doing great also - it makes zero difference to me what you personally do or believe, but no matter how loud you 'shout', I will keep helping those who do want to listen and learn as I have for over 20 years now. Thanks for your time. EDITED to make the Scott the Overglider link work ✅

[@НурикОмарев]

@@swimsmooth for me sustainability is important. If you can keep the pace of say 2 min per 100 min for 5 kilometers then what time improvement do you want. It is fast enough.

[@swimsmooth]

@@НурикОмарев that's precisely my point - over-gliding is neither efficient nor sustainable, at any pace.

[@НурикОмарев]

@@swimsmooth Don’t you think that constant work on your stroke will automatically improve your time and sustainability?

[@НурикОмарев]

And catch up swimming is an integral part of stroke mastery

[@SwimMechanics]

Great swimmers utilize technique, timing & rhythm and drag reduction to achieve swimming synchronicity, like the cogs of a clock working in unison. ie If one part is the wrong size, in the wrong place or not timed correctly it slows you down and makes swimming harder than it needs to be 🐡💧🧩

[@swimsmooth]

Well said!

[@НурикОмарев]

Don’t listen to this man. Catch up freestyle is immensely enjoyable way of swimming. You really have time to concentrate on your stroke and feel the pleasure of traction with water. You may lose some speed. But so what?!!! This guy’s recommendation is for semi professional athletes for whom 1-2 minutes of time improvement really matter.