Stop Using the RULE of THIRDS!

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In this week’s episode, we discuss the problem with the Rule of Thirds and what I've found to be a better solution. It's difficult to read, watch, or listen to anything related to photography without hearing a mention of the Rule of Thirds. The fact that this basic compositional technique is so simple to teach, understand, and apply has contributed to its widespread application in photography. And this overuse is just one part of the problem I have with the Rule of Thirds. So the next time you're editing your photos I'd encourage you to try what I believe is a better solution to the Rule of Thirds. I hope you enjoy this week's episode and as always thanks so much for watching! - Mark D.
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[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

🌟Thanks so much to all who entered the 200k Giveaway & Congratulations to all the Winners!

[@itswrongtokillanimalsifyou2837]

An alternative technique: just play around with the crop until you actually FEEL something, no matter where the subject may end up. I never understood following composition rules when all it takes to render them more or less useless is an imbalance in light/darkness, color, texture, etc. Which happens ALL THE TIME in captures.

[@StreetsOfVancouverChannel]

yawwwwwwn

[@itswrongtokillanimalsifyou2837]

@@StreetsOfVancouverChannel Dare to elaborate?

[@Garbox80]

I've been doing this, kind of. I usually try to take the picture so that I think what I want in it, so most of the time I don't have to crop it (and I'm also trying to avoid it because my equipment isn't that pro and wen you start to zoom/crop it, the limitations start to show more). But sometimes while editing I look at the image and think that there's too much plain blue sky or boring ground or whatever and start to crop that. In any case I don't use the grid, but kind of eyeball it towards the rule of thirds. Sometimes it goes to that, sometimes it stays closer to this golden rule. I like how you said it, "until you actually feel something".

[@itswrongtokillanimalsifyou2837]

@@Garbox80 I wish there existed a program (and this probably wouldn't be hard to make for anyone who knows coding) where you would just open your image, and then press a key on your keyboard to have the program give you a random crop. This way you could go through hundreds of crops very quickly to open your mind to the possibilities, and start from whichever version you liked best. There is artistic value to be added at every stage of the process, but the art of the crop is sadly underappreciated. And the feeling part is at the very heart of what art is, because images that seem perfectly executed but don't awaken feelings/thoughts actually belong in the trash. Conversely, you will never be lost at sea as long as your art makes you feel something, no matter how messed up it looks on the surface. Some of the best art is terrible from a technical standpoint, but that doesn't really matter unless you, say, produce it for some client with certain demands (might this be why Hollywood movies are so tame?).

[@MarcoPallotti]

I've been composing by feel for years, whether I'm shooting or doing post on images. I only really look at the composition if I want to line something up or am going for symmetry.

[@HR-wd6cw]

The rule of thirds is a good teaching tool when teaching composition, but once one has "mastered" the basics of composition and it shows in their work, then it can be broken. As one photographer said to me, once you know the rules, then you know when you can BREAK them. The rule of thirds doesn't always work (for example, if you're looking for symmetry in a phtoograph or certain patterns, or you want to take a picture of a tunnel with a light at the end of it... then the rule of thirds doesn't really work although you can use the ROT guides to center your frame). As with most things in photography, there is a time and place for things, and then there isn't and it's good to know what type of composition method (whether it's the rule of thirds, golden ratio, or some other technique) is appropriate). At the end of the day, you just want some sort of balance, whether that fits within a composition technique or not. I think as long as you have an interesting subject, the lighting is appropriate, and there is "balance" within the frame, that's all you need. You don't always have to follow the composition rules to a T.

[@sammyife-davies1041]

Spot on 💯✔️

[@rakneuro]

Mark, I have never thought of the “Rule of Thirds” as a rule, but rather as a suggestion or starting point. If one of the 1/3 lines or intersections gives me the most interesting compositional place to put my subject, then I’m fine with that. However, if another composition is more dynamic and interesting, then that is what I choose. And that is how I explain this and other compositional suggestions to others. It felt like you were reaching a little bit to create content by suggesting that we should kill the rule of thirds. That said, I appreciate your channel and your guidance, in general.

[@bonenyamom4977]

I think both the rule of 3rds and golden ratio techniques are equally as useful. It all depends on your subject and personal preference. At the end of the day, photography is an art form, and art is entirely subjective.

[@CluelessYoutuber]

Great video Mark! Great tips. I think the problem people, and myself, have with the rule of thirds is forgetting to add a counter balance to the opposite third of the frame making it visually unbalanced. With all that “empty space” on that part, the composition just feels off.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks so much - totally agree!

[@rayganrambles]

Congratulations winners! Mark, I've been using your previous Rule of Thirds video as a basis for my compositions for about a year now, I think. This was a great refresher. Thanks for posting it!

[@photoman52beta]

Yes, many times there is a huge amount of dead space in a rule of thirds (ROT) cropped image. But there are many images that work well with it. You are a photographer, so you instinctively look for particular methods employed, but the average viewer doesn’t recognize the tool employed. As a photographer trained in art photography, I don’t always use ROT or Golden Ratio. I experiment with the placement of the subject to create the visual aspects to pull the viewer into the image. I don’t want someone to view it, say that it’s nice, and then more along. I want to pull them into the image and have an experience. It’s not always going to happen, but always following the rules is not going to allow for much imagination or artistry. You have a great channel Mark, and I respect your expertise.

[@brucedelorme5026]

Absolutely. Hecking out your workshops.great info Mark.

[@paulg9042]

The problem with "Rule of Thirds" is the very first word and you pointed it out very clearly, everyone does it. I bet if it was called something else it wouldn't be used as often. Even words like "golden" I think have the potential for abuse. Most don't realize that these are tools to be used and even less (talking more so for the amateurs) fully understand why one is used. For me, I've found the best way to learn this is to take a scene, crop it different ways without guides until I think the image is satisfying. Then, apply the grids. I've learned quite a bit that way and still have more to learn. Love these videos.

[@AmazingPhilippines1]

I agree with your thinking and often do not use the rule of 3rds.

[@kentvaughn4546]

Thanks for a new way to think about composition when editing my photos!! A great video!

[@bergerking31]

Great lesson !!! Many thanks. Amazing !!

[@evaeriksson9950]

Great tip! 😊

[@RYANPARKPHOTOGRAPHY]

congratulation for those four people! and congrats for 200k again and also! thanks for the great video for composition again!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks a million Ryan!

[@RYANPARKPHOTOGRAPHY]

@@MarkDenneyPhoto my pleasure!

[@paulbenson3441]

Hi Mark, another great video. I really enjoyed that subtle difference between the rules of thirds and the golden rule. For such a small difference, there was an immediate visual difference. I've always struggled with my landscape photography to get the right balance for the scene and for the message I want to get across. I'm going to give the golden rule a whirl in some of my existing images to see if I can bring that bit of extra life into some of them. Thanks Mark, have a good one. Paul, Sheffield, UK.

[@PMCN53]

A good balanced approach Mark. Those rules are meant to be broken! Ken Duncan - Australia's most internationally sucessful Australian landscape photographer for many decades, once told a story of how a judge was looking at one of his images in a gallery said that "This photograph is not following the rules but the photograph still works" LOL!! The person didn't know Ken and Ken replied..... I'm glad the photographer (KEN) didn't know the rule the hey? LOL!!!!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks Phil! That’s a great story as well:)

[@edkight6447]

I'm going to give it a try. Makes sense . Another good tutorial Mark. Thanks

[@andycoleman2708]

Sometimes with the these "rules", it seems that we compose with what "feels" right (considering the weight and balance of all the components of the picture) and then find the overlay that fits it most closely. Are most of these "rules" just made up to fill someone's curriculum?

[@marthalindsey5599]

Thank you!

[@tessdrzymala]

These tips are extremely helpful. To me, the golden ratio composition feels much more dynamic. I admit I've fallen into the habit of using the rule of thirds technique for quite some time, and I feel that the general composition of my photos has become a bit too predictable. I'm excited to play around with these suggestions going forward!

[@Bldyiii]

Great tips! Really goes to show how minor adjustments can have major impacts. Subtle yet impactful.

[@fakkerdakker]

Congrats to all the winners!

[@JArmandoCastaneda]

Very informative, well explained

[@drgoodharp]

Mark, I appreciate your video on this important topic. I agree that the Rule of Thirds (ROT) is an over-used compositional concept. It works when it works, but it stands out as undesirable when it is overused, as in "Oh, ROT that is distracting." When Center-Weighting is not enough, I tend to use Off-Center-Weighting with a strong preference for the Golden Ratio Grid approach. Generally, at the decisive moment, I'll focus with Center-Weighting for my main object, then move the camera slightly off-center, while keeping the Golden Ratio Grid in mind. When post-processing, I'll crop according to the needs of my composition. Thank you for bucking the ROT trend and showing what is, for many of us, a better way of composing great photos.

[@hukumongdu]

ok im convinced ❤

[@1980Orb]

Great video today! I found it very helpful. I have fallen into the habit of overusing the rule of thirds. I will definitely try changing it up more! Thanks, Mark.👍🏻

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Glad to hear you enjoyed the video Sidney!

[@GreenpetesWorld]

Mark, thanks very much for an entertaining and informative video. Learning a lot from you 👍

[@johnchambers6272]

Very well explained with excellent examples. Many thanks for sharing Mark.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Appreciate ya John!

[@lespaul8787]

Great video and advice!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Much appreciated!

[@jamesbarnes3063]

Great video, going to try it!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks James!

[@JaredBishopFilms]

Yes. Been using that same overlay for years for the same reason, the rule of thirds seems to leave just too much empty space in areas where I want things to be!

[@cmichaelhaugh8517]

Excellent point and I really like your solution.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks so much!

[@jasonveee7506]

Love that you had an Ocracoke Island shirt!!! Best sunrises around.

[@steveboys5369]

Another interesting video Mark, thanks for sharing ... and congrats to the bag winners!

[@trinasculley4989]

As usual, a great video. And, as usual, I will go back and re-re-edit my photos with what I just learned. I never used the rule of thirds, just went with what looked right to me, but I’ll use these as tools in the future.

[@michaelgoulding4425]

Great stuff Mark, very useful. Cheers

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Appreciate it Michael!

[@RM831BC4E4]

Awesome Vlog and appreciate the shortcut advice for Lightroom. Awesome photos used within content also as examples.

[@eerofi]

This video just shows that what actually matters is what is in the photo and not the ratio.

[@karenwilcock8131]

Best explanation I’ve ever had of the golden ratio thank you so much 😊

[@PracticingPhotography]

Hi Mark. Awesome lesson on rule of thirds and golden rule of thirds. I am guilty of using the the rule of thirds more than I probably should. I am definitely going to try this on my photos. My moto is to "get better one photo at a time" and your instructions have helped me on this journey. Keep the videos coming.

[@wimscheenen3535]

Great video with clear examples where the golden ratio outshines the rule of thirds! And congrats to all the winners.

[@mazemet]

Nice video. Gave me food for thought to use different approaches to instead of the rule of thirds.

[@DavidKinnear3]

I think the key takeaway is to not stick to any particular rule when composing images. I use the rule of thirds, rule of fourths, rule of fifths, golden ratio, centered subject and variations on all of them. The key is to create a balanced image, I think. Including dead space, in order to achieve the correct ratio, is not the answer, in my opinion.

[@andrewadams8164]

Great topic! I really enjoyed this video.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks Andrew!

[@tes218]

Great video! I'm fairly new to photography and have often heard about the rule of thirds. Now I have another perspective to consider so thank you for teaching about this option. I'm going to look back at some of my pictures and try this placement to see how it changes their look. Thanks!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Glad to do it and thanks for taking the time to check out the video!

[@rileykass1563]

Another thing to keep in mind is where we decide to position our compositional lines. When I crop my portrait photos, I don't put my rule of thirds line in the center of the face, I offset it over an eye, and which line over which eye can make a big difference. For example, when you cropped the Golden Gate you chose to put the right line in the middle of the bridge, whereas is you had pushed the right line over to the right side, your composition would be much closer to what you ended up with with the golden ratio. Just another thing to keep in mind; where we choose to line things up on our subject. Great video Mark!

[@annepetry2340]

Another helpful video. I agree that the Rule of Thirds is over-used. I was in a FB group where it was promoted heavily, and I pushed back for folks to not get locked into that as their only compositional guide. So many had no idea of the O shortcut in LR to toggle through the other options.

[@doriswoodruff4810]

thanks for sharing this informative demo of what has confused me for years! golden mean makes so much sense

[@torstenwennberg4845]

Very brave man for taking on the rule of thirds. I admit, I had doubts going into this video but you make very good points and successfully so as now I feel I have another technique to try out more often (golden ratio). I think both will have their place depending on the situation. And thank you for not only pointing out potential 'flaws' but also a solution. Glad I watched today!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Glad you watched as well - happy to hear it was helpful!

[@joebuchanan2812]

You did an amazing job fighting those bots last week, mad respect for sticking at it for as long as you did!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks man💪

[@PETERFRITZPHOTO]

Very interesting, Mark. 🙂

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks Peter!

[@jrlong3490]

Good video Mark. I agree that the Golden Ratio makes the photos look better so I will start looking at that option in my compositions and editing. Thanks

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@peterwalsh4964]

Interesting discussion Mark. I wonder if the Golden rule was the universally accepted composition tool if we would be decrying the slavish adherence to that and suggesting the rule of thirds as an alternative. Surely it's more about moving the subject off centre to create tension in the image. How far off centre depends upon the overall balance in the image (light, secondary subjects, leading lines, neutral space... all the other elements of composition). The various rules are surely more like guides to what often works well, but to be varied as required by individual circumstances.

[@dougsholly9323]

This is my take on it as well. The rule of thirds is not a hard and fast rule. It is a technique that allows for compositions other than center weighted to create some artistic value. But every scene must be evaluated and adjusted. I always viewed the rule of thirds as a starting point anyway.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks so much Peter!

[@keeganoconnellphotography]

Ocracoke Island shirt! Always love to see you repping the Carolinas!

[@hassanscottodierno9284]

Good video, I started the video very skeptical, but in the end I totally understand and agree now. I don't think my camera shows anything other than rule of thirds, but can estimate it easily enough.

[@dougtunison]

Thanks, useful tip & examples. I usually use the rule of thirds as a starting point and then adjust as needed to fit the image.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks for watching Doug!

[@noelmallia]

thanks for this very interesting video

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Always - my pleasure Noel!

[@kjb_tennessee]

Visited OBX years ago before getting into photography, it was November and cold, but zero crowds. I would like to go back one day and capture the lighthouses. Great video content Mark, plenty of think about here.

[@ConstantinSPurcea]

I stopped thinking about the rule of thirds. I even forgot to turn the overlay on in my a7 IV when I bought it. I compose however I want, yet still keeping track of not having too much dead space that doesn't contribute to the image or overlapping subjects that shouldn't overlap or leaving too much or too little space between subjects. Using leading lines where it feels right or stacking elements where it feels right (like a telephoto woodland scene or a stack of mountains into the deep atmosphere). It's good to learn why things work a certain way and using some of these guidance tips like the rule of thirds, the golden ratio, leading lines and the foreground-midground-background stack to create depth are all good things. But so is back-lighting your subjects, using flat light when it works or having nice golden directional light other times. There are so many aspects to composition.

[@wRAAh]

Great points you make there... I would like to add something: We are spoilt with this 60 megapixel reality that we live in now. But only ten years ago, we were proud of shots that were a fraction of that. So why not zoom out a bit, and crop later. To a square format... Portrait... Landscape... Cameras are SO good nowadays....

[@gharrop1]

Another, well presented and thought provoking video Mark…many thanks. The golden ratio is a mathematical one derived from many natural objects and occurs in many flowers natural structures etc. Like others I will set Lightroom to show it all the time from now on!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

It's great to hear you enjoyed the video Jeff!

[@granth.6356]

Thank you very much for this video. I have used the rule of thirds as a guideline mostly but have felt free to fudge it. I have felt that the rule of thirds made my compositions feel sterile. I have always liked to move my subject to a more aesthetic position that felt more natural. I am going to set the grids on my camera to the golden ratio now. Thanks again for the video...

[@alexgimagery]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention! I was not aware of this exactly, but I know sometimes distant main objects felt quite a lot to the side and lost with the rule of thirds, and I was already placing them a little inside the 1/3 lines.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Glad to do it and thanks for taking a look at the video Alex!

[@brentnewman450]

Another great video! I recently went through my archive to fix my vanilla rule of third compositions and it has made a huge improvement. With this exercise, I too have come to favor the golden ratio with the diagonal being a close second. But, I find the Fibonacci spiral to be the most powerful composition because it often forces the viewer to scan through more of the frame and pull them into it. However, I find it more difficult to work in landscapes unless it's a vertical orientation.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks a million Brent!

[@virtualworldsbyloff]

Photography should be what we like, not what we find popular, but neither running away from popular... I don't care how many people is doing this or that, I care about knowing how things work and than choose what I like... Constantly trying to avoid thirds just because is trendy is to me another way of slavery... The rule of thirds is and will always be a fine balanced way to distribute to the viewer what is more important and not so much... Now the crossing of the lines, yes, that is a bit exagerated to be always forcing smaller motives into them...

[@chrisburns4909]

Excellent as usual. I learned something new and it makes sense to me. Horizontally use the original rule of thirds but vertically use the tighter rule of thirds golden ratio overlay in LR for positioning items of interest. One question I had that you may have covered but maybe I missed: Does this work for any aspect ratio (landscape, portrait, or square) or is it more for landscape aspect ratios only? And does it get adjusted for wide angle 16x9 shots you do or is it fairly relative independent of the final crop? Just curious how you adjust based on the final shot. Thanks

[@floormatt]

Been finding myself using the golden ratio lately on accident, then trying to adjust to the rule of thirds before I go back. I also have cropped it so that it looks right, then changing the overlay until I find the closest composition rule and making fine adjustments accordingly.

[@BlazingFaith1945]

What I understood is apply the rule of third to what visually looks best to your eye without actually being aligned to the rule of thirdes.

[@whatsgoodamerica420]

As a newbie I've been applying the rule of third but moving my feet to make more dynamic shots if that makes sense. Great points here and when you said you'd leave that bit when you cropped the rock pic, I knew exactly what "because I like that" means and my wife says I make that same face lol!

[@bkc1965]

I really like this video because, as usual, you are sharing your thought process as well as talking about what you feel when you look at an image. And that, feelings, is what I find to be the most difficult aspect of photography...to "listen" to my feelings when I look at a scene or image in front of me. I think the rule of thirds as well as the golden ratio are both the best....depending on how they make you feel in a given situation. When I go back and look at some of my images, I think that I used the rule of turds instead of the rule of thirds or any other composition ratio guideline. Where I think I failed is that I didn't slow down and take in the scene in front of me, didn't listen to my own feelings and listen to what made me feel good when viewing the scene. Only when I understand my own feelings can I begin to try to convey and share that feeling with another viewer. And that, for me, is the most difficul...to slow down and listen while I see.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks for sharing this Bryan - great to hear you enjoyed the video!

[@jeff8ham]

Good video Mark. Think the rule of thirds has unintentionally too often become my default for composing a landscape photograph (especially with horizons), so need to be more mindful of pushing my subject inward. Or better yet, maybe take that extra shot or two where I just push against the rules and try something completely different!

[@csotoperspective]

Congrats to the winners!! Thanks for the Giveaway Mark. Also great informative video as usual!!.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks so much!

[@csotoperspective]

@@MarkDenneyPhoto You're welcome!

[@andrewkeating8952]

Great tip on the golden ratio - will try that out for sure on my next photo trip !!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks Andrew!

[@tdalton854]

Hello Mark. Interesting and helpful vid. Have always stuck with rule of thirds as a guide being just a half as…ed photographer. Don’t stick to it always and am more aware of negative space than I used to be. Will try out the golden ratio later today. Have some Yosemite waterfalls to do so can compare to what you showed. Thanks

[@federicolucasmiro8645]

Thank you very much, I use to be very attached to the rule of thirds and I was feeling tired of doing that And I didn’t know how to change. I will start using the golden ratio. Thanks

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Glad to do it and thanks for checking out the video!

[@michaelhale416]

Great tutorial!!! Being a rookie I pretty much always followed the rule of thirds. Having said that, every picture I printed seemed to be more like the golden ratio. I had never heard of the golden ratio before this video, but now I don't feel so bad about not following the rule of thirds. Thank you, and keep up the good work.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Appreciate it Michael!

[@TheOnlyGuess]

Concerning the rule of thirds it may work in most of situations but it's not necessarily the most adequate one. As it's said you need to know the rule before you break it. I think the best thing to be sure of is to ensure that the elements if the photo are well-balanced and the eye can read the photo with ease. Thanks a bunch Mark

[@garrydelday5816]

Congratulations to the winners, thanks for the opportunity Mark 👍 I must admit I have not heard of the “Golden Ratio” method until now, I try to make sure my images are balanced before anything else, then think about placing the main subject within the frame, if it happens to be on the “Rule of Thirds” intersection then happy days. I guess unbalanced images annoy me more, or something in the shot that drags the eye away from the obvious subject 🤔It is a very subjective

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Of course and thanks for checking out the video Garry!

[@brandonmjohnsonphotography]

Very good tip! I will definitely be using that. I've got a couple of Clingmans Dome pictures I believe will be a good test for it. Congratulations to all the winners! Mark, again fantastic video man.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks for checking it out Brandon!

[@GeoffGrant2010]

Thanks, very helpful. I would appreciate a little more explanation of the golden ratio itself, but I can find it. It came up at a photo workshop this past week! Also, are you keeping the original aspect ratio or just unlocking and letting it go?? Why, whatever.? Thanks so much! Geoff

[@billkipper3264]

I actually notice that quite a bit when I'm out shooting. I'll line up a mountain peak or tree or whatever on the rule of thirds and it just doesn't look right. Like someone else commented, it seems like you get all this dead space on the other side of the photo a lot. Sometimes I will move the subject over towards the center but many times I end up shooting the photo on the thirds line anyway I think because it's so ingrained into me that that's the way it should be. After watching this though I'm going to start shifting subjects over more often. Thanks for the great video as always.

[@gordonneedham7014]

Another good video Mark (Stop Using the Rule of Thirds) ... In the video recently showing the grid lines (to see the Golden Ratio) you mentioned pressing the "O" key ... but nothing worked, after playing the video again I thought I heard something about another key 1st? On the crop tool (Aspect Ratio), you mentioned about opening the "Lock" ... Will that interfere with what the printer requires? I tried one custom 1x3 ... and got the same when I entered 3x1 What don't I understand? Thanks Gordon from Kimberley

[@pc1189]

The golden ratio has been neglected in my workflow however when you showed the rule of thirds next to golden ratio a 💡 shown bright. Thanks for the tips keep up the good work Mark. Btw, had a good laugh last week when you posted the icm video. A friend and I were messing around with it the day prior to the post. We gave it a go this week trying the circle and zoom 😂

[@brucesummers7448]

When cropping images in post I have frequently found that placing the primary subject along a diagonal line drawn from the upper left corner down and across to the lower right corner provides the strongest image. It may be different where people read from right to left and go down the column of characters and across. It is why I like to leave space for future cropping of the image at my leisure in post.

[@alanevans9246]

Mark, good topic and discussion. I do agree that the “rule of thirds” does get used a lot and maybe even too much. Creativity should be based on feel and the look you are trying to achieve, not limited by some rule…. Sometimes, like everything in life, it works out that the composition is best suited at the third of the frame. But, as you are trying to demonstrate this should not be anyone’s guiding principle of composition. We are composing art and there are no rules to this process…. Thanks for sharing and keep snapping!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks so much for watching Alan!

[@johnfletcher1036]

60 years ago the rule of thirds was suggested as an approximation to the rule used in the darkroom to be used when taking the photo. The rules suggested for use in the darkroom, when you had ample time to compose, was to use the point of intersection of a perpendicular from a corner to a diagonal connecting the adjacent two corners. This changes the points position with the aspect ratio of the final print.

[@rickyathonda1370]

I live in NC, absolutely love the shirt!! Such a beautiful kept secret is Ocracoke

[@johnneyhart6633]

Thanks, Mark! As you probably know, the Golden Ratio (or Golden Section) has been used for centuries by artists to compose their paintings. It’s definitely an oldie and a goodie!

[@susanfirth2279]

I try to keep the rule of thirds in mind with landscapes but sometimes centre works better. All depends on the scene. I didn't know about the golden ratio one, thank you for that. Interesting. Congratulations to all the winners of the giveaway.

[@kevinroberts1888]

That's good advice. Hadn't really thought about it until I saw the video, almost all of my personal favorites of my own pictures are centered or closer to the center than the rule of thirds. I do have a fair number of pictures that use the rule of thirds that are quite good, but usually not what I consider to be the cream of the crop.

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Glad you think so Kevin!

[@steveshugart9538]

Hi Mark, I live in Colorado and am wondering where your upcoming Colorado workshop will be held? I live at the base of the Sangre de Christo mountaind near the town of Westcliffe, I never miss your videos, Steve

[@susanmeyer8885]

Such a great topic! I will certainly put it to use. I have been varying from rule of thirds doing what looks pleasing to me. Curious how this golden ratio overlay will improve my compositions in post processing. Thanks for your informative videos!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks for watching Susan!

[@jimwhite1050]

Thanks Mark. Another good one. Going to look through my portfolio with this in mind. How about square crops? Center weighted or at least more toward the center than golden ratio?

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

Thanks Jim! I love a good square crop - creates the ultimate balance!

[@tonyheale1375]

Excellent video as usual Mark, amazing how such a small thing can have such an impact on a composition. One question, completely off topic, but where did you get your Orange Apple Watch strap? It’s very cool!

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

From some random store on Amazon

[@RC75]

Been using the golden ration since my first photograph 20 years ago. Not knowing about the golden ratio but I never liked the rule of third so I placed my subject always like you showed in the video. It was a natural thing for me.

[@charlesdavis6371]

congrats to the winners

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

👏👏👏

[@miked.7722]

Very good video. I've been using the Golden ratio or Golden Mean for over 15 yrs. The rule of thirds ,in my words, always seemed lopsided, then I found the GR in a photo mag a long time ago. The great painting masters used the Golden ratio, the rule of thirds is the cheesy, easy copy of the GR that photographers thought up. If one looks at the works of Ansel Adams you will see the GR. Also it would have been nice to show the other ways of using the Golden ratio, like the spiral etc.

[@rb.arindam]

I keep the 3rd grids on, and use them as guidelines for quick positioning, but not following “line-up on those lines” ritually. As a hardcore photographer, you might say my positioning is all over the place! But it isn't only the positioning that's in a photograph! I DID NOT BUY AN EXPENSIVE CAMERA TO RITUALLY PUT SUBJECTS ON THE THIRD GRID OR THE DEAD CENTRE.

[@patwilkinson2182]

Thank you for the great tip! I really like the golden ratio rule and am going to begin using it. Too bad we did not have an option of rule of thirds or golden ratio on our camera. I will do what you said about moving the object in a bit. 👏

[@MarkDenneyPhoto]

I’d love it if my camera had this grid as a display option!