Stop Wasting Components Doing Seating Depth!

[@Evintos]

"Defend what I had already won instead of trying to win the next match." That is some profound stuff that resonated well with me.

[@MarkhorTactical]

inspired

[@alchampion340]

AMEN

[@thompascoe8463]

Please don't apologise for late uploads. 100% quality over quantity. You are brilliant at what you do. :)

[@DadWil]

Exactly... I don.t expect these videos... I appreciate the sharing of knowledge

[@SixOFord]

I watched one of your older videos on seating depth and running it in .003 increments. I'd never done that and thought it was crazy at the time. I was loading some 52gr Sierra hpbt in an ar platform for varmint management and they shot bad throughout the range of the load. I was limited on powder choices at the moment and actually had a very low sd load but the group was terrible. So I went after seating depth per your video I had watched. Being limited on mag length in an ar I started giving it more jump. .006 in and it shot a .456 five round group. With the same powder, same load that previously shot horrible. Not F class material I know but for blasting critters coming after my chicken coup it's just fine. And this was a dpms varmint upper I cut, crowned and threaded myself. Nothing special. This method works. Thanks for sharing the wisdom. Saves me money lol.

[@cbsbass4142]

I appreciate your logic in that two shot "group." So many people think 5 shots (of wasted ammo) is somehow a magic number....as opposed to say 1, 2 or 7 shots.

[@davidschmidt5810]

I bring my RCBS press to the range to do seating depth tests. It’s a pain but worthwhile on components. Good idea to always load long and do final seating later. You never know when things will change. Thanks for the video Keith!

[@donshelton7332]

I'm a new subscriber and really appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I've reloaded pistol and shotgun rounds over the years, decided to start shooting rifles so the reloading lessons will definitely speed up my learning curve. Thanks

[@timothybutler1]

Your videos are a great help to me. Appreciate the no nonsense approach. Good luck at the SWN!

[@mikedoingmikethings702]

Every time I work a load, I don't see it as a "wasted" ammo as I always enjoy shooting, thus I will never wanted to be a professional shooter even when I am talented to do so as I don't want to take away the fun out of it... In my opinion, seeking perfection is a nice way to spend the morning...

[@grassroots9304]

Nicely done. We'll explained. Thank you for the time and effort to make and post this. So true and well-said about wasting components: if two don't print well, 3 or more won't tighten it up.

[@redrock425]

Really good advice. The summary is start long and seat deeper until a contiguous range of small groups is found. Record everything!

[@bigeclipse718]

Thanks for the tips. Definitely looking forward to hearing your strategy on finding the right powder charge.

[@ewetho]

Great video.. works spectacular if you have an arbor press setup.. Why not shoot the cross and let the bullets land where they may instead of making crosses in the circle? Just because it is unorthodox?

[@winninginthewind]

See, that makes too much sense!

[@pickin4you]

I always had people tell me my 3 shot groups weren’t enough. That I need to shoot at least 5, 5 shot groups to come up with an average. I tried to explain that all of that is on the shooter. Not the rifle or the load. If you are someone who knows how to shoot properly, 2-3 rounds one time is all you need to see how that load is doing. The rest of the so called shooters don’t see it my way because, they probably are not very good shooters themselves. I was taught young. Started at age 5. Am now 62. So I have been shooting a long time.

[@4570reloader]

hands down one of the best videos i have watched, lots of useful information, many thanks!!

[@wvlongshooter3912]

On four barrels using a magnetospeed along side of the barrels, not touching the barrels, I’ve recorded just over 6500 rounds shot through them using H-4831sc. It’s a temperature insensitive powder according to the manufacture and it is but not completely. With ammo temperatures from 30 degs F to 70 degs F it is roughly 0.5 fps/1 deg. From 71 degs F to the mid 90’s its pushing just under 0.70 fps/1 deg. This is and has been a very scientific analysis in my opinion. What I don’t know is if this is cartridge dependent or if case volume has an affect. In this testing I have a lot of data on first round MV’s vs’s the second shot MV and first compared to the total average MV’s. This data could very well differ from one cartridge to another and could be dependent on the rifles ignition. Just my two cents worth. I really enjoy your content and the scientific method processes that you use in your videos.

[@josephhomen]

Wow that’s a lot of chronographing , I’m very impressed 🙂 I shoot the same powder in 6.5 Creedmoor. I haven’t done nearly the round count that you have, but I would say my results are a little bit tighter than what you were getting. Again that’s some very impressive testing 👍🙂. Comments like yours add great value to the reloading/shooting community thanks

[@wvlongshooter3912]

@@josephhomen thanks!! It is a lot of testing and shooting. I’m using the 6.5 CM too. I’m fortunate to be able to shoot several days a week up here in the hills of WV. It’s just routine for me to attach the magneto to the rod system and record the mv’s as i shoot By doing this it has taught me a lot on how a barrel changes through its life cycle and by mapping out mv’s it really helps me to know what MV to use no matter the ammo temp and condition for a first round impact. Thanks for the comment.

[@chetcogar3758]

Do you happen to shoot at the Harry Jones Range near Fairview?

[@wvlongshooter3912]

@@chetcogar3758 no. I shoot on different coal strip mines. I mostly shoot beyond a grand. Shooting in the hills has interesting wind dynamics. I’m not a f class shooter but I highlighted respect the tactics and the sport. I’m near Charleston. Give me a shout if ya want to shoot.

[@chetcogar3758]

@@wvlongshooter3912 Good deal. I’m near Fairmont and I have not shot past 1K because that’s what I have access to for $100.00 membership fee. I’m currently working in Ohio but I will be done here soon and yes I would love to shoot further.

[@airborne350g]

Great video as usual. I also use the same target upside down because I like putting my dot on the center of the cross. I also use a plumb bob to ensure they are perfectly vertical. Not needed but something I do.

[@davidunderwood3605]

Yes sir! Those who challenge you or you choose to challenge can't take away past victories just the ones which could be ahead of you.

[@wadepederson8457]

Seating depth, really ! This is how you control harmonics, and you say no. I say bunk I use .005 and it works that tells me all I need to know when my group shrinks record that move on to the next bullet and you can follow erosion, you do you I will do what works for me. GOD BLESS.

[@WesternReloader]

Starting on my reloading, short action. Just so happens my coal to jam , minus 10 thou, is not too long for magazine. 2.986. The SAAMI max coal is 2.955, so I get a little extra to seat out. Will start at 2.986 and work down. 175 stgk, 26” barrel, 270 cal 6.8 western. Powder is 4831sc. Federal 215s and CCI 200s.

[@miguelperaza6615]

Very technically in hypothetical equations? when you have a .oo6 window? The middle will be .004 , then : might you back off .003 ? Or forward .003 ? We have to acknowledge the measurements between 0 and .001 so 12 - half thousands equal 6 thousands .

[@jasonlopez4855]

I started scale out every part bullet, primer, brass casings and then powder. Factory ammo is to much different. I just started two years ago repacking ammonium. Just fun for me.

[@scottsmith5593]

So now I'm going to redo everything I loaded for my seating depth testing. Great video Keith. Thank you.

[@lyndeen]

Just found your channel. I don’t have thousands of hours or even hundreds of ours behind a firearm. Your videos have me thinking more along the lines of building my understanding of what I have. Building confidence and competence where I am at. Thanks

[@emmettdibble8404]

We shoot different games but I started using your technics for load development on a new barrel in a new chambering… I went from high 20’s ES teens SD to low teens ES single digit SDs…. Thank you. It will make little difference in my game (20’s is an inch on a 20” target that has no X ring) but at least I will know it’s me and not the rifle when I am off. I don’t know how YT works but I know some of the other channels I like have a thank you button where I can donate a dollar amount on videos with out using patreon. Again, thank you!

[@roncoburn1103]

I am new to this and find your information much more informative than any one else I have watched. I shoot off the shelf rifle and have gotten close but no cigar yet. Thank you.

[@rgthomson1]

There is something to it, if you seat a bullet at the very start, say 20 thou off then find the load for ES they match and should not be changed until the barrel speeds up if it does, dont mess with it after you get the load to come in, 99% it will shoot accurate, when you do whats happening here moving the coal it may move 100 yrd accuracy but the ES is moving about, if you follow this once accurate start again for ES and it all begins again

[@RandyReed-o3v]

I really enjoy your videos. Just now learning about seating depth. Between you, Erik and Gavin I'm learning a lot. I'm interested in F Class mid range and long range.

[@danielsbackforty8094]

Learned from you. Great teaching without the cocky junk.

[@oldwisdom1026]

Just found your content! I’m absolutely in love with your videos, keep up the good work, your doing a great job 🤙🏻

[@shadowironbank5469]

Super great video as far as saving bullets and barrel life. Great content, super good articulation with your words.. I have been a follower since about a year ago when I ran across one of your videoz shooting a big shiny gun with a blue stock I think. At first I thot you were making stuff up and cheating on your targets! Lol how can a gun shoot tiny little holes so many times without any flyers!! Lol. Boy have I been schooled! Now I watch your videos religiously! Even Ian from Kelblys recomended you, however I told him I was already a follower.. man Im glad you chose to make videos, you made my shooting hobby so much more fun!! Thankyou for your time and information.

[@aeroderek]

This is one of your best videos. Explaining what you do and why. Thank you

[@paulbowman6700]

From another scientist/engineer to another, I really appreciate your blood, sweat, and tears to find all the information you share here and on Patron! Sign JR. Ph.D.

[@campnoutdoors1621]

Subscribed and Liked! Been watching for a few weeks and appreciate this channel tremendously! Thank You

[@HVACinstructer]

Wow, what a teacher. I’m new to your channel and I’m staying!!

[@spysweeper]

Very timely as I was contemplating a strategy to find seating depth after finding my powder charge! Thanks! Great video!

[@winninginthewind]

Glad it was helpful!

[@phill7404]

Thank you. I'm looking having a crack at it (go) And with having your backboard cleared is an excellent decision

[@richardt.4224]

Thanks, this is the second of your video's I've watched and the info is so clear. I'm now a subscriber and will start watching all your reloading video's

[@foonus406]

Thanks for the content, looking forward to more!

[@Lucysdad66]

I shot some factory ammo with 130 bergers and it shot pertty good I loaded some eldx and started at .003 off and it shot 3 and half inch group at 100 yards I also had some 129ablr at .004 it stunk to but not as bad so going to move to .008 and bump it .003 at a time I sure wasted them rounds and I found out that seating depth does affect fsp.

[@hrbricker]

This is what we're dealing with ("kzbin.info/www/bejne/maG3q6Vqrr-pqsU"). Some barrels are better and some are worse. It's called resonance. A metal tube is a natural resonant object. Hit it with a hammer and it will resonate. Likewise, set off an extremely high pressure event in one end and it will resonate. The thing to remember is that it will resonate at the same frequency so long as the physical characteristics of the tube remain the same. Our goal is to arrange for our bullet to exit the barrel ( consistently) at a point in the resonance cycle when the barrel is moving the least. This occurs precisely at the positive and negative peaks of the Cycle. Oh yeh, ignition pressure will effect the magnitude of the resonance, but not the frequency. Consider a bell; strike it lightly and it rings quietly and struck hard, it rings loudly, but always with the same tone. So it all boils down to somehow timing the travel of your bullet from ignition to exit to coincide with the most desirable position of the barrel at that time. Watch the shooters who consistently make it to the podium. They must know something.

[@MrRanggong]

Dang I wish I was a good enough shooter to move on to the next increment of what ever im testing if two holes didnt touch. Hats off to you. Great videos. They encourage me to get better.

[@cgtull]

Good Morning Sir. I'm working on some for my 6.5 and I believe I have found my powder node and I did not do any groups during powder node development. Next I hear people say do seating depth tests to get your groups. Stated start at .010 and go up .010 incriments. I have 4 of each starting at .010 going to .060 and so.e every said .125. Tikka tac A1 24" 1/8t. Thank you for advice.

[@scotblair3717]

How are you determining the erosion rate (relative or absolute) of powders? Is this your own experience with your rifle, or are there other resources that we could look to for our rifles?

[@jimc6481]

Gosh.....I can't believe I just found your channel....awesome work, great vids...you've forgot more than I'll ever know....hats off to you sir! Thank you..

[@paulbowman6700]

Incredible content and process. I am amazed and much more thoroughly understand the process now. Thank you so much for sharing.

[@dannywarren5204]

So what is the starting seating depth?? Before you start playing with it?? And even if a load shoots crap but has a great sd... is that the load to play with seating depth??... a start to finnish simple explanation on what your looking for and how to choose a load for play with would help... plus why doesn't seating depth make any difference at all with some rifles?? I've had this with a 222 .. seating depth made no difference

[@airborne350g]

Used this method today and it worked real well. Thanks for this video Keith.

[@bossebatong]

Could you make a video on how you adjust the tool? Regards from Sweden

[@HernanMoragaMmHs]

Question for you sir. How do you know how fast a particular poder erodes the throat of a barrel? Very informative video. I subscribed!

[@brettinnj]

I few things. First, thank you for the video. 2nd, where did you get the shims? My last question, I'm guessing you are shooting the same barrel (brand, twist, etc) cut with your personal reamer. Why such an extensive load development? Shouldn't a load from one rifle to the next be really close? Maybe a slight charge, seating depth change? I find that components are only half the cost. Nobody ever includes the "cost per round" when it comes to barrel wear.

[@winninginthewind]

All excellent points. In my case, my stock of preferred components is running low, so I'm having to to shoehorn other components into use. I have little concern that I can get them to work, if needed, but don't need to learn I'm not there yet at a major event. I calculate the cost of barrel wear in my cost of ammunition. It was approximately a doubling of the cost of the ammunition for barrel life before the great component shortage of 2020. Now, I simply say that it costs $0.35 /round for barrel life.

[@kentuckywindage222]

Outstanding! Excellent information. With clear explanation of the process. New Sub. Keep'em coming!

[@GetMeThere1]

Very nice! Yes, I'd love to see a load development video. Thanks much.

[@shanedavis4976]

What seating depth is used for the powder test?

[@WvMnts]

Great video thank you. I’m new to distance shooting and reloading. Very good information. What powers eat throat like this so I can avoid them lol. We shoot a lot.

[@DLT704]

I’d like to see a load development video also. Keep up the very informative videos !!!!

[@amarshall621]

Fantastic production quality. What does your production equipment look like? IE: camera/ audio/ lighting setup?

[@mikecrafar6276]

Awesome job, just the right amount of explanation and reasoning. Cheers.

[@justinhoon74]

Curious to what powder erodes the throat rapidly. ??

[@redrock425]

Double base powders will erode faster

[@dannywarren5204]

And what happens when you get a great group... and your letting the barrel cool quite well between groups... and then the next time you shoot that same load.. it won't repeat.. why is that.. I've had loads touching at 100 and but won't repeat the next day... this is so frustrating

[@carls.8408]

Where does a shooter find the rate of throat deterioration with powders? Is there a publication?

[@ardad1303]

I really enjoy your videos, and the content is great. Thanks for posting these.

[@miykael001]

Life Wisdom & shooting knowledge/experience 😊 thank you. Natural teaching talent!

[@AnthonyBarber-m4v]

I like the version of the target that you have been using. Is there a place to get a copy of it?

[@noahjessee6446]

Hey Keith! Have you found it necessary to change the seating depth over the life of the barrel after doing this test?

[@magwamagwa45110]

What a awesome tip load em all long and seat them deeper as you go no waste Thank you for sharing....

[@CHenry1951]

Excellent, I try to shoot 5 shot groups, but if the first 3 are all over the place I stop !!............... Thanks for sharing .

[@gordonb8052]

Why do you measure group size from the outer edge of the bullet impact? shouldn't it be center to center? by that measurement only a .17 or .22 LR could ever get the smallest sizes and anything larger would appear as poor groups because you are measuring a .243, .308, .5 bullet?

[@misterlewgee8874]

Pure Gold Keith

[@jimbiddle8646]

As a new shooter I’m not familiar with the idea of certain powders eroding the throat more rapidly. Is this just a function of burn rate?

[@Mars741]

This is the best video ever! Thank you so much. You have a new subscriber

[@jeffreylucas3421]

Very nice info and scientific research for your devopment.

[@ralphproudfoot620]

Holy crap I've been wasting rounds Thank You

[@andrewthatcher1737]

Question Sir, if I may, once I find the platue in the satterlee test, then I load 10 rounds of each powder charge, 1/10th grain increments, how long between shots? Cold bore or warm barrel? Thank you Sir for great instructional videos.

[@joshuachristianson3545]

Would this be the same process for a hunting load with barnes ttsx? I've gotten alot different opinions and don't know how much to use as an increment. Should i use .006 steps or a bigger step

[@tonydevich7937]

Thank you for the info really love the content..... need more

[@andreeas1980]

Love your videos and is amazing how accurate you are. I managed to develop quite a few accurate loads but nothing soo amazing. My question qould be which thing you do first , look for the right amount of powder then play with seating depth or the other way arround?

[@Paintballguru92]

What does he mean by shim? Is his “shim” measurement how far you are off jam?

[@AZHOTROD84]

Very professional and well spoken

[@carlread3494]

Thanks for another informative video Keith.

[@greyghostnw]

What Arbor press do u use at range to seat bullets? Thanks

[@daveshimko8220]

I would love to know what powders you mentioned eroded .003" and .0015" throat per 100 rounds fired. Great video, but come on man, give us full disclosure! Lol

[@winninginthewind]

Reloader 16 and H4350 respectively. How's that for disclosure? :)

[@johnventers5128]

I notice in the first montage the sand colour rifle twists quite a lot. Has anybody ever offset the Boreline so that it has more resistance to torques?

[@francoisdavel1786]

Was the change in velocity you mentioned due to humidity of the powder?

[@sf2189]

Interesting that you are in PRS land jumps. People would say I was crazy when I jumped .07. Mark Gordon from SAC (posted on Cal Zants PRS blog) has some amazing research on jump. I do two shot tests for my barrel tuner too - then increase as I get closer to the node.

[@taylorbokshowan5713]

I don’t think he told us how much he was jumping. Just the shim size

[@sf2189]

He started his jump at .008 from the lands and then worked closer from there, but from what I gather from my the shims, not a ton more - this is a whole universe in the jam +2 world.

[@peterhert9350]

I have to make a license for reloading . The ballistic Institute , where I made the license, in general say 0.02 jump for 243 and less. 0.08 for 264 and higher. I never seat in the lands, because of some reasons.

[@billbrown9091]

Hi I shoot a 308 Winchester I noticed in your video you said one powder erodes more than the next how do you know which Powder erodes more or less other than just taking measurements (base to ogive) per 100 rounds as you try different powders? Thanks bill

[@chrisrobinson2172]

How do we find the powder charge and seating depth for an AR style of weapon?

[@MaxSaguier-q6y]

Perfecto explanation!! Tks from Argentina!

[@billclifton8400]

So you choose seating depth before you choose powder charge?

[@cgtull]

Ok, wasting components? So when doing a work up do you use never used brass to do your matches or do you do low load to yield your brass as you stated in one of your videos? Do you just load never fired brass for comp? Do I have to use fire formed brass or can I just save my components and not do that and just load and go? I don't recall you ever stating if you use never fired brass for a competition.

[@winninginthewind]

I fireform at matches. Usually the local midrange ones. The other way I have done it is with inexpensiuve bullets and one of the multitude of powders I've tried that didn't work out for match use. The downside to that is that I'm still consuming primers.

[@maxcoatlhunter4322]

Great information as always, thank you!

[@kylehalfhill6260]

Where can I find targets like the ones you are using?

[@imgannadie991]

Glad I came across this video! I'm subscribed

[@jcows12]

I just want to load hunting ammo that will do 1 to 3/4 moa. Providing that's probably the best "the rifle" can do. This video is for the utmost 1% accuracy, I know how to find jam where do you go from there? Is jam good to load to? I only load 100 bullets (7 mag and 25-06) at a time?

[@winninginthewind]

I wouldn't load to jam for a hunting rifle. Getting a bullet stuck in the lands and pulling the case off of it while trying to unload is a bad day. I would shorten up from jam to .020" off of touch, and work back from there.

[@jcows12]

@@winninginthewind hey thanks for the reply, much appreciated. I've not really reloaded that much (maybe 1000 or less of 223, 308, 25-06, and 7mm mag) 223 I've had good results but the others not as much. My 7 mag is a model 70 Winchester that does 1/2 moa with the right factory ammo and same for the 308. My 308 brass is lake city mixed lot and other randoms, I only recently found out how detrimental that can be 😩. I graphed a saterlee test string trying to find charge weight plateaus and I'm getting 2 moa with the fastest stable load? I don't want to fire 100 bullets to get data maybe 30 so I can have 70 hunting rounds? I know it's probably a ridiculous notion but I'm just trying to get a "good load" not necessarily the zen ultra precision round. Honestly at this point it's a bit cheaper just buying ammo with the poor results I've had out of some of my reloading. I know consistency is key and I load to max mag length when necessary. Thanks for any info.

[@michelezuzic5182]

Dear winnig the wind, i have a question for VLD bullet, why you start 15th jamed, and if you load the bullet but dont want to shoot and try to extract from rifle is possible taht the bullet rest in barrell because of Jammed? Thanks in advance.

[@winninginthewind]

Yes, you can end up with a situation where extracting a loaded round results in extracting the bullet form the case, leaving it in the throat. There are lots of factors from chamber leade angle to absolute bullet extraction force that affect it. I always test before loading with a jam.

[@MarcNorden]

I have a question maybe somone can help. okay so with my node on the powder sorted by seating the freedom seed deeper speed will increase does that now result in lowering my charge weight or keeping it the same ? with a increase in speed ?

[@miguelperaza6615]

Well, let me tell you , a bullet that is full metal jacket will not function the same as a true soft hunting bullet 😕 And on the same subject? Wouldn't it be nice for bullet manufacturers to PRINT the Brinell hardness test on their Bullet boxes ? Another thing is a powder that erodes the lands ,😮 How can a bullet align itself on eroaded lands? SO , How many rounds🤔 can be shot till the erosion changes groups?

[@treece1]

5:47 I learned something. Now I won't waste so much ammo that I'll have to unload at home Bingo!

[@jimmcmullen9326]

Who made your new stock? Love your videos.

[@JJ-tf2qs]

Do you or someone you know have experience with a 6mm 108 berger elite hunter? I am looking for advice for a good seating depth start to get me close. Thanks

[@EitriBrokkr]

How do you know the speed at which different powders errode throat?