Stop Worshipping Villains.

[@Byrdstar6423-un3me]

Just remember guys, Megatron and other villains like him are the epitomy of the quote " power doesn't corrupt, it reveals "

[@stuffynosepatrol]

It revealed him to be a normal person

[@cahe6161]

​@@stuffynosepatrolNah, he became just another tyrant.

[@stuffynosepatrol]

@@cahe6161 how exactly? I'm talking about in Transformers One here, not in the rest of the franchise. In TransofmrersOne all he did was kill someone who mutilated and enslaved an entire generation of babies and said he wanted to murder those who remained loyal to him. Call me crazy but I don't think wanting to murder robohitler and his robazis is tyrannical. Edit: I rewatched the scene and Megatron was literally chosen to lead by a crowd of thousands of citizens of Iacon, not just the High Guard. Then Optimus comes along and takes power without the consent of the people and banishes Megatron for acting in a way he doesn't personally like. THAT is tyrannical.

[@fanu3p900]

Literally left his best friend to die ​@@stuffynosepatrol

[@user-oj6re6ju9t]

​​@@stuffynosepatrol but then Megatron becomes said rodohitler, no one is saying he shouldn't have killed sentinel but instead of feeling uncomfortable with taking someone's life he just glows red eyes and becomes the tyrannical villain that everybody know. Edit: funny that you compare sentinel to Hitler despite Hitler being more similar to Megatron in a sense where both were rejected outcasts that ended up being in a war like setting.

[@madhousestudiosdevious]

I don’t like Megatron because he could be good, I like him because he’s evil. Some people just really like villains because they are evil.

[@rodrigoa.oviedogarcia8139]

There is a difference between liking a villain because he/she is a villain and straight up believing that they're right.

[@madhousestudiosdevious]

@@rodrigoa.oviedogarcia8139 exactly

[@rhyslightning3037]

Exactly. Nobody likes the joker because they think hes right. Its because he is the polar opposite of the hero (Batman). Which in turn makes him a great obstacle to overcome, which is is what villains are ment to be. An obstacle for the hero to overcome so that they can grow as a character.

[@nont18411]

Yep, I also like the Penguin and Lord Toranaga. Both are irredeemable villain protagonists and I like them because I enjoy seeing them doing evil things and manipulating everyone.

[@nont18411]

@@rhyslightning3037 I beg to differ. Many edgelords unironically think that Joker is right. Just look at the quotes like “We used to like Batman when we were kids but growing up, we realized that the Joker makes more sense.” or “We live in a society”. And with a 2019 film, people actually see him as a beacon of revolution against oppressive system (like Tyler Durden), instead of just an agent of chaos who wants to destroy everything and everyone.

[@Fafnd]

Being good is hard. It takes strength to be good and gentle. It takes strength to admit that you were wrong and set yourself on the correct path. Being selfish, vengeful, and horrible to others doesn't take strength; it's wallowing in weakness.

[@northone2022]

I agree. It really hits home the core of Optimus' character that Peter Cullan originally was going for: "Be strong enough to be gentle." I think that greatly applies today. It's easy to be filled with rage or hate, to want revenge. But it takes true strength to look that hatred in the eyes and choose kindness and mercy instead.

[@animezilla4486]

​@@northone2022it's not always easy being strong and gentle

[@dannysegarra4504]

Sometimes ruthelessness is nesscary. Like you wouldn't let a rapist walk free if he diddyd your kid I'm just saying that's kinda crazy to call someone weak for taking out someone who is evillllll evilll.

[@lovecraftian-aisirb]

5:46-5:55

[@kabriii]

You like villains because they are “misunderstood” I like villains because they look cool. We are not the same.

[@TheSEAempire]

Based.

[@nont18411]

“Stop worshipping villains”❌ “Stop making the villains look super cool while the heroes look goofy af”✅

[@waterh2o299]

Same

[@headwreak1768]

Me when i cheer for the RDA in Avatar because they have giant robots , helicopters and G U N s:

[@manoranjanchakraborty6314]

@@headwreak1768 except they don't look cool at all . the na'vi look and are 100 times more cooler than the RDA.

[@Scoonertuna]

YES! Finally more people are starting to say it...You can have a villain be sympathetic in a narrarive/story level (Meaning you can identify WHY said character did what they did) BUT always remember, these men/women chose to become the worst version of themselves... and always for selfish reasons...

[@mr.voltorb]

I wrote an entire college level essay on this very topic. I couldn’t agree more.

[@animezilla4486]

Sometimes it's not always by choice

[@redcrow3605]

Reminds me of the current political climate... And I absolutely hate politics, but I can't really ingore ot when it's up all in my face just about everywhere I turn.

[@JLMaster-le4eh]

Wow, I'm the wrong person for you to be telling that... besides what's wrong with siding with the villian every once and a while? 😅

[@Songokulight2467]

True

[@Dr_Primitive]

I feel like when we glorify villains, we're looking for a diamond in the rough, a redeemable character.

[@connormarchand6302]

Yeah but sometimes we find a dog turd instead 💩

[@R0Ckatansky13]

Facts

[@no.1spidey-fan182]

Yh but people forget that not EVERYONE is a diamond. Out here collecting Cubic Zerconium😭🤣

[@ryszakowy]

WRONG

[@JustAnAstronautPerson]

​@@ryszakowyno no he's right

[@josevictorionunez9312]

Almost all IRL villians also had terrible experiences that some people might relate to. Adolf Hitler was abused by his father, and experienced the horrors of WW1 and was gassed. But were his actions justified? HELL NO. His bitterness, jealousy, xenophobia and unwillingness to move on made him into the most evil dictator the world has ever seen. Who killed millions just so he can achieve his demented vision of what his country should be. Much of what you said is right. Putting the power of who lives and who dies to one person is not a good idea. And you should never weaponize your trauma to justify your evil. In many ways, D-16 and Orion's relationship is the perfect example of "A villian doesn't hate a hero because they stop their evil but because they embody everything that the villian is not. Heroes conquer their inner demons. Not succumb to them" Good video BTW.

[@TheSEAempire]

Bingo. For everyone who experienced some sort of horrible trauma and turned into a maniac, there are just as many, if not MORE people who turned out much better. Characters like Megatron and Davy Jones experienced similar things to the heroes of their respective stories, yet they turned out as monsters. Why? How they responded to their experiences.

[@jamestolbert1856]

@@TheSEAempirealso Darth Vader. People tend to blame the Jedi or Obi Wan when this isn’t true in the slightest. He chose to go down this path just because he wanted the power to control the lives of those around him so he wouldn’t lose them like his mother. His actions weren’t noble. They were acts based on fear. But he’s also meant to symbolize how no matter how evil things you’ve done, you can still come back to the light.

[@SS_Atlantic_Greyhound1119]

​@@jamestolbert1856ti's a little more complex, as Anakin wasn't a traditional Jedi when he was found. He was born into slavery with his mother and then forced to leave her, he then lost Qui Gon to a sith in Darth Maul, during the Clone Wars he was constantly strained in he's ideals and beliefs from the Jedi due to both the war and actions of the Jedi Council. Heck, Obi Wan fake he's own death which likely deeply struck Anakin. Then you have the Jedi Council turning on Ashoka after the temple bombing, which wasn't her fault, that ended up with her leaving the order. There are likely other examples, but my point wasn't to suggest Anakin/Vader was right, but more so that the Jedi Council and its masters made certain choices that did contribute to his eventual fall.

[@jamestolbert1856]

@ of course it’s more complex and I do love it when simple characters can be fully fledged out and complex

[@nont18411]

@@jamestolbert1856 But I don’t like how Star Wars portrayed Anakin committing one good thing by saving his own son as a means to cancel out all the child murders and genocides he had been doing for decades. He even got to be a force ghost in Jedi heaven for that. I know that people love the OT and it’s the best trilogy compared to the prequel and the sequel but the foundation of the story is quite weak since the beginning thanks to this.

[@NiniSuperior]

Man I'm tired of people siding with villains. Most of the times both heroes and villains have reasons to become horrible people, but heroes are the ones that choose the hard path of doing the right thing and putting the lives of everyone else before them, and villains choose the easy path of hatred and inflicting on innocent people the same pain the world caused them in the past. Orion literally went through the same stuff D-16 did but you didn't see him executing people and killing his friend.

[@AstralKEK]

That’s because D-16 got the worst of the lies from sentinel. Compared to D-16, Orion never believed in or worshiped sentinel like D did because he trusted him. But, learning that his protecter killed his role model, lied to his face, banters around in his face for killing his role model, launching him and his friend basically into slavery. It’s easy for people who don’t obey by the rules (pax) to not be that effected if they learned their leader betrayed them, but someone who does obey by the rules and try to stay on protocol (D-16), people like him would be hurt the most because that’s the leader they follow and try to enforce the rules by just doing what he says. There’s levels to this.

[@LorenzoCassaro]

​@@AstralKEKStill doesn't justify becoming a tyrannical maniac

[@OttoMatson]

Heres something everyone should learn and take to heart: "There's no excuse for abuse".

[@M01eFANatic79]

I love villains, I don't aspire to be them. I understand that if they were in real life, I would hate them. No one should idolize someone like Megatron, Darth Vader, or Magneto. People like them are supposed to represent the wrong path. People spend too much time relating to the tragic villains because they see themselves in them, and they just want to let them win. But they forget that there are still people like Optimus, Luke Skywalker, and Professor X in the world. People spend too much time thinking the worst of everyone that they ignore the best. I thought that during Covid and the violence that came with it, but I managed to find myself when I looked at how good people were treating me. Don't idolize the villainous, pity them for not finding it in them to be heroic.

[@mr.beetroot2219]

This was very well put! With that being said I would too totally disagree with the decisions and mindsets of villains if they really existed but personally couldn’t hate them due to so many of them being simply too badass and cool for me to do so. An example of a man that gets called “a real life supervillain” a lot today would be P. Diddy due to the recent huge cases being uncovered when in reality he was some ordinary guy who isn’t much more than a weirdo and abuser with too much money to show it (who mind you) is no exception to the law and isn’t in the slightest bit powerful physically without his personal possessions.

[@JokerFan-hj4iv]

This is why we still need inspirational heroes and complete monster villains. People complain about characters like Superman because he’s not “relatable” but the problem is as the world becomes more cynical our relatable characters become the more cynical ones so of course people gravitate to the bad guys. The inspirational hero is supposed to inspire us to try to keep improving and be the best versions of us while monster villains represent our worst traits our shadow selves. Anakin’s fall to the dark side wouldn’t be as tragic and effective without palpatine being the devil on his shoulder leading him further and further from the innocent kid he started as. The farther Vader fell into darkness the more he became a slave to the emperor’s will.

[@jace5151]

You want a simple world with no nuance.

[@dootrevenant7203]

@@jace5151 that's not what they mean tho. TFOne has both of the things they said , the inspirational hero of Optimus Prime and the complete monster villain of Sentinel Prime. Sentinel is the root cause of everything bad , and Optimus is meant to be the right way to fix it , meanwhile Megatron is the wrong way that furthers the problem. Even in almost every critically acclaimed media , we still get these types of characters. like Owl House with inspirational Lux and the monstrous Belos. They do not cheapen the story , but elevate it.

[@nont18411]

Reminds me of a conversation between Captain America and Phil Coulson in Avengers. Captain asked whether he himself was too “old school” for the modern world and Phil Coulson replied something like “in this day and age that the world has descended into chaos and misery, maybe what it needs is an old school value from him”.

[@JokerFan-hj4iv]

@@dootrevenant7203 exactly! That’s what I meant. You can have as many relatable, flawed characters as you want but paragon heroes like Superman or captain America are still important because they represent the heroism that inspires us to be more selfless and less cynical. The same way classic villains like Darksied or the emperor represents the worst traits of us.

[@Tabletopcloud20]

​@jace5151 you can't read obviously

[@thebiggorp1623]

People are so used to villains being ontologically evil, they can’t comprehend that they can have reasons yet still be wrong. Just because it has a cause doesn’t mean it’s justified.

[@Antasma1]

I believe that’s it

[@kiril10]

No, it is justified

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

Maybe people love villains so much today is because the "heroes" are written so badly.

[@TheSEAempire]

You just inspired a new video about making well written heroes, congrats 🫡

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

@TheSEAempire I can die in peace now, there are no greater achievements. 😃

[@DYXAnims]

Depends on how both are written but yes most of them do nowadays

[@kennethsatria6607]

That is a fair point

[@pepita2437]

And they write heroes intentionally badly. Some of them just don't agree with the old morals anymore, and want to tear down these iconic heroes, as they're the representation of an era/morals they all hate.

[@Gr1nd0r]

Modern Audiences mistake being Symphatethic with justifying, just bcs you can relate to a Villain's past/ trauma doesnt mean it justifies their downright horrendous actions, been saying this since people started Idolizing Joker from the Dark Knight

[@hariman7727]

And modern writers often make villains who have a better point and better morals than the "heroes" without realizing it. Or the writers don't understand why someone they hate is loved by the audience. Alan Moore and Rorchach's popularity is an excellent example of this: Rorchach is the ONLY character who stuck by his morals and wasn't corrupted by the end, to the point of willing to die for truth and NOT lying to achieve the goal. Everybody else in Watchmen was either corrupt from the beginning, blinded by their own power, gave up, or in it for the thrill. Is it any wonder that Rorchach is admired for HAVING morality and attacking villains/monsters? That is also exacerbated by modern "progressive" culture idolizing "progress" (change without heed to consequences) over actually good results and also over societal stability.

[@Gr1nd0r]

@hariman7727 Wasn't talking about Rorschach, but its funny you bring him up bcs he was never pointed as a villain in Watchmen, he was pointed more as a hero who turned into an anti-hero bcs his friends turned out to be corrupt, the entirety of the Rorschach concept is a deep dive into questioning what's morally right to do if you're a hero that was given no other choice not to portray a villain that you empathize with

[@hariman7727]

@@Gr1nd0r I used Rorschach as an example because he's a perfect case of the author expecting someone to be hated by the fans, but who is loved by the fans for actually having a morality and not being corrupted. Remember: Rorschach kills a child molester and various criminals who were coming to kill him or do worse than kill him. He's a case study in how Showbiz/Hollywood types don't understand what morality is all too often. But you seem to think there's some kind of point in Alan Moore trying to portray Rorschach as awful, when society itself is broken and allowing injustice to perpetuate itself AND the "heroes" either directly kill millions, or approve of that because they think the lie is better than the truth.

[@Gr1nd0r]

@hariman7727 I never said Alan Moore was trying to portray Rorschach as awful, I said he was trying to make Rorschach into a controversial figure that makes his own moral choices instead of blindly following others and that got him killed, sort of the moral question you would ask if you would like someone like The Punisher

[@Gr1nd0r]

@hariman7727 Just saying this Rorschach and Punisher are two of some of my favorite comic book characters not bcs they are always right but bcs they propose this idea of what is morally right when a person is confronted with a past like theirs and dealing with the people they have to deal with, theyre not villains, they're morally ambiguous heroes and there is nothing wrong with that

[@dootrevenant7203]

The reason why a lot of people are agreeing with the ''tragic'' villains is because they themselves are disillusioned with our world , and we will apply their view of real life to fiction as well. Another thing is contrast , like in TFOne , the character who was responsible for every bad thing is the story is Sentinel Prime , who has no single redeeming quality. With Megatron , we can see where he comes form especially against Sentinel , but Sentinel is just a pure psychopath with to no redeeming quality. When you apply it to real life leaders who almost get no consequences whatsoever , people will of course side with the guy who is just wants to murder the ones ruining everyone's lives and the world. People are motivated by what they hate , not what they love. Optimus is meant to be the rightful idealistic leader , but the thing is he is idealistic , when you look at the real world , almost every influential people in history are just terrible people. There are billions of Sentinels and Megatrons , but little to no Optimuses. (This also comes from a place of anti-natalistic belief. Again , I do not believe Megatron was right at all , but just giving my thoughts on why people side with him.)

[@Trozfol571]

Describes my reasons very well, here's a thumbs up 👍 Still think Meg was right for ending Sentinel tho 😏

[@Byrdstar6423-un3me]

That's a REALLY good analysis! And the thing with Megatron qhen he's NOT depicted as a purely evil irredeemable monster is that he's a broken man who, instead of changing things, decides to change the order to be a fascistic dictatorship even worse than what came before because as Freire aaid it " when education is not liberating, the opressed desire to become the oppressors "

[@uberkirbeeh7954]

@@Trozfol571Megs was right about killing Sentinel, but his selfish rage stole that act of justice from everyone else. Sentinel’s death and execution belonged to the whole of Cybertron, not just for Megs.

[@Skritz-mt9zb]

Doesn't matter if its 'unrealistic' because in real life there are 'More Megatrons than Optimus Primes'. That might be more realistic and true to life, but it misses the point of having an IDEAL to ASPIRE to, even if we more often than not fail trying. If we wallow too much in the idea that good is an impossible standard, then we become worshippers of evil.

[@Trozfol571]

@@Skritz-mt9zb Define “evil”?

[@BatAmerica]

This concept is why I love villains like Walter White. We understand where he's coming from, yet the story never excuses his actions due to being sympathetic.

[@crispychips7161]

"I miss when heroes were just good people with power. And i miss when villains were just bad people with power." -some guy idk

[@hariman7727]

This.

[@headwreak1768]

Starman comes to mind-

[@rockmangurlx4973]

I’ll confess that D-16’s story resonates with me because of something similar that happened, yet his method of lil and wanton destruction is both meaningless and serves nothing but as an outlet to pain. Pain that doesn’t deserve to be thrust onto others.

[@esteban8471]

I believe Death Battle phrased it in a very interesting light when talking about Megatron. "There used to be a point to the war. Now, war *was* the point."

[@rockmangurlx4973]

@ exactly. I’m not even that big a fan of Death Battle but they got that down.

[@superluigi6968]

What's strange to me about Megatron in TFO (and why people back him), Megatron didn't kill Sentinel because "He can't be allowed to live," "we can't trust him if we spare him," or any thoughtful, genuinely morally complex reason. He killed him because he was angry. Because Sentinel wronged him, like he's been more hurt and more deserving of this singular right than anybody else Sentinel has hurt. Megatron had power, and he had opportunity, and he used them not to detain Sentinel, take his cog, and have him tried (which would probably see him killed anyway), he just killed him because he could.

[@nont18411]

In Megatron’s defense. Sentinel actually did wrong him. Sentinel took it upon himself to brand a Decepticon symbol on Megatron’s chest without any practical reason. It was purely because he’s spiteful of Megatron and he enjoyed torturing people. It could be an allegory to slave owners who love to brand their own slaves too. Sentinel did this to remind Megatron that no matter how high he climb, he is and will always be a slave. That’s why Megatron hates Sentinel to the core. And turned many spiteful things that Sentinel did to him into his own symbols to remind him of the pain he had been through, like marking a Decepticon symbol on his chest in the post credit scene, and turning the phrase “Rise up” that Sentinel told him as a mockery into the phrase that radicalize his followers.

[@Antasma1]

Exactly! People act like sparing Sentinel was the same thing as letting him go unpunished. Even Windu made the point that Palpatine was “too dangerous to be kept alive!”

[@michaeldorsey9231]

Stain from MHA is one of the most personally frustrating examples of villain worship I’ve seen, if only because readers overstate how much of a “point” he had.

[@motor4X4kombat]

Ironacly even i the show they workship him even the members of the league of villains. Thats so meta in so many levels.

[@tayojones9460]

He wasn't wrong in his criticism of mha heroes but his methods were wrong.

[@animezilla4486]

To be absolutely clear the readers do not agree with his actions at all but regarding to his point is absolutely correct especially when it comes to the heroes in heroes society. When it comes to the My hero academia series it wasn't just a hero versus villains story is more complex than that just because you're a good guy that doesn't mean you're always in the right

[@darkzeroprojects4245]

​@@animezilla4486 yeah i think the "worship" thing is overblown.

[@animezilla4486]

@@darkzeroprojects4245 I agree

[@taquito36]

Perhaps we glorify them because we tend to see the worst of ourselves in these characters. Because we justify our actions, we subconsciously justify the characters, too. I dunno tho..

[@MutantsInDisguise]

Who is "we"?

[@Mayeur000Donz]

I think it's usually much more simple than that. I think it's a matter of indulgence. A villain unleashing his fury and destroying his abuser is "cool" and "badass" and motivates some chest-beating whoops. It's one of the reasons people side with Rick Sanchez, even when that show goes out of its way to say he isn't in the right. He is quippy, constantly ahead in the conversation. That part inspires power fantasies and it's what many want to see in themselves. ESPECIALLY if it's about pwning someone in an argument.

[@corryjamieson3909]

​@@Mayeur000DonzYup, that ties it to a T.

[@purple5823]

I find it honestly frightening how we have two characters with the same motives yet different paths they chose, that being Optimus Prime, the hero and Megatron, the villain and yet so many people say the villain was right. It’s shocking how many people constantly lean towards siding or celebrating the villains more than heroes. I have a feeling so many people just see the darkness within them and just want to justify it and embrace it. They ignore the messages of good in the heroes and thrive on being “seen” by the villains. It feels tragic, in a way

[@Antasma1]

Which made even more confusing why Megatron thought it was worth betraying his best friend

[@luchoman91]

I appreciate that someone has recognized this growing trend of villain worship and is speaking up about it. I think the worship of villains in storytelling reflects the state of our society, something you alluded to at 7:28, "the rise of villain worship says a lot about how people view the world." I think our society has spent too much time and energy trying to see the good in everyone that we do not recognize villainy when its right in our faces and likewise spent too much time and energy trying to tear down our heroes that we do not recognize what makes them exceptional. These days right is wrong and wrong is right, good is evil and evil is good. We have lost common sense and the ability to decipher between the heroism in heroes and the villainy in villains.

[@Influence417]

Praise freedom of expression. Those little shits.

[@shareefhaddad2377]

In the MCU, Tony was on a dangerous path to becoming another Thanos, and the real one respected him for it.

[@alecjackman2655]

Honestly it’s important for people to realize that sympathy and pity are to different things. In the case of irredeemable villians, unlike sympathy, one can still feel a sense of pity towards them because of how pathetic they can be.

[@kennethsatria6607]

Starscream?

[@alecjackman2655]

@ If you want to

[@nont18411]

Saul Goodman

[@kennethsatria6607]

Megatron is never in the right for what he ends up becoming, in any continuity, its crazy accurate in a way how nobody realizes they've just become indoctrinated into being Decepticons, who obsess over the current outrage and power they feel they deserve to fight against what antagonizes them, justification to do what they want to do with no consequence. Whether the enemy they want to defeat exists or not and have no care about the future and the others they disassociate with living people just like they are.

[@TheSEAempire]

Trauma is normal. Forming beliefs is normal. But becoming a violent revolutionary and a fascist is far from normal.

[@timelesswolf4949]

Never realized that they technically are Decepticons for following and believing him like they do in story.

[@raysinaster983]

Fun fact There is a continuity where the good and bad guy roles are swap It's called shattered glass

[@jeremychicken3339]

"Megatron is never in the right for what he ends up becoming, in any continuity" Shattered Glass Megatron has something to say to you.

[@GoppeXk]

I mean he tried to offer a truce in dotm but optimus killed him eventhought he jst saved his life

[@Alecations]

I think it’s sad how we’re in an era where “evil but is realistic/has an understandable motive” is genuinely too complex a concept. I hope it’s mostly kids saying this stuff. Also I love how direct this video is. It doesn’t try too hard to be pretentious, flowery, grandiose: It has points, it explains points, and it moves on.

[@MrGojira95]

It blows my mind that a video like this has to be made. You’d think the concept of good and evil would be simple.

[@pepita2437]

Saw a ton of people saying that Orions comparing D to Sentinel pushed him over the edge, and made D decide to kill Sentinel. they just forget that D wanted to kill Sentinel from the moment he found out how he betrayed all Cybetron.

[@kennethsatria6607]

Pretty sure some people have obsessions about murder and serial killers fiction or otherwise so it seems to speak for themselves

[@ryszakowy]

don't look at modern comics... "heroes" are acting like literal villains while actual heroes trying to stop them are the "villains"

[@JustAnAstronautPerson]

​@@ryszakowythere are several modern comics with legitimately good heros.

[@pepita2437]

@@ryszakowy Look up the Skybound Transfirmers comic book series. It is very well written. In fact it is so good that it outsold several big titles like Batman etc.

[@ignika1407]

Once again, it feels like people are missing the key difference between "understanding" and "agreeing" and it's frightening

[@lavendermarshmallowplant3229]

Are you saying this in agreement with S.E.A's points? Either way, definitely. It still feels odd that there are those who blur the lines between the two or think they don't exist at all?

[@ignika1407]

@lavendermarshmallowplant3229 Yeah, it was in agreement, I was saying "once again" in reference to a comment to a previous video of his which has since then been removed and re-uploaded. In hindsight, it was a confusing way to start my comment... The short version of it was that it's one thing to understand why a villain act that way, it's a whole other to agree with their method, even if the goal was "good". Example being Thanos the MCU wanting to prevent extinction through overpopulation... By killing off half of that population

[@stormeaglegaming5395]

I love this analysis , all though these villains are thought provoking characters , they are a cautionary tale of being the worst version of yourself .

[@squeezyjibbz7407]

This is what I'm tired of when it comes to how modern writers perceive villains. It's always "They're the hero of their own story" or "They just have different intentions." And they always go out of their way to justify these claims by writing the villains as misunderstood or a victim in some way. They want us to empathize with the villains, when that's not the purpose of their character. A viewer is supposed to empathize with the hero, and sympathize with the villain. Not the other way around. The second you start painting a villain as misunderstood or a victim, they immediately stop being a villain and enter anti-hero status. This is precisely my problem with villains like Thanos in the MCU. What he's doing is objectively monstrous, but he justifies his actions by painting himself as a misunderstood prophet. Which is fine villain writing on its own. It's important that your villains actions at least make a bit of sense from their pov. But good villain writing should justify their motives, never their methods. It makes for a more engaging villain that way, but you know you've done something wrong when you got edgy weirdos spouting the nonsense "Thanos did nothing wrong." As if they completely missed the point of the character. It's why i prefer villains like Magneto or Sephiroth. They're both inherently tragic characters, and have justifications for being villains, but the story never tries to justify their actions. Only their motivations, and that's why to me they're more effective villains.

[@Antasma1]

I honestly thought they were trying SO hard with Thanos they were eventually gonna make him realize he made a mistake

[@HighestPing]

I would say it depends on where you were born. If you were born into a dictatorship and had to put up with not having freedom of thought, Megatron would probably seem more relatable than the "let's take him to court for a fair trial" guy. Maybe it's just me.

[@nont18411]

Not just you, me too. And while I find Optimus admirable, I’m quite doubtful whether his ideology could work in the real world but it’s still worth trying to be good than letting it loose and be bad.

[@itsjustvin7630]

But arent you replacing 1 tyrant for another more upfront tyrant

[@alekslic3385]

People on Twitter root for villains *because of how "relatable" they are* I root for villains *because "heroes" in modern movies/tv shows end up being EVEN BIGGER ASSHOLES*

[@JadeMythriil]

I think this says a lot about people and their deepest desires if they see a villain as a role model or someone to relate to. I am guilty of that at one point. There was a character in the megaman starforce series going by Rogue. He was someone rejected by society for being different and so chooses to close himself off and not allowing others to get close. For the longest time during my high school I took in that ideology as a result of my constant bullying and at the time being a new student in a new high school, I grew bitter and refusing to get close for fear of being hurt by anyone. So I closed myself off and ignored the people who were trying to get close to me. I look back on it now and thought how I wasted my time being bitter rather than seeing the people who were genuinely trying to be close to me.

[@matthewrascoe8690]

Does this mean one cannot find a villain sympathetic?

[@TheSEAempire]

Sympathy is up to the viewer, and writers can make choices for their characters to make them more likely to be sympathized with, but advocating for a villain’s plans is more often than not really messsd up.

[@MontyMoleLoreMaster]

@@TheSEAempireWell there are some villains like the Mirage Express from The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog that are more misguided and sympathetic over some other villains out there.

[@connormarchand6302]

I think U misunderstood the difference between empathy and sympathy

[@MontyMoleLoreMaster]

@ Yeah sorry, I was just trying to give an example.

[@theanimartist2299]

@@TheSEAempire- subjective really but let’s not get into that rabbit whole on Thanksgiving

[@andrewrowland1989]

It’s because of this modern culture of moral relativism. Everyone is “the hero of their own story”. No one is really a villain.

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

I would not call the RDA realistic. They have the means to easily wipe out the Navi just from landing their spacecraft but somehow they get beaten by spears and arrows.

[@51TD0wN]

You're wrong. 1 - You can easily destroy something from space, but that's not their goal. Their goal is to collect resources, which they can't do if they destroy everything. 2 - They weren't defeated by just bows and arrows, the whole ecosystem became unified and attacked them. With the amount of wildlife attacking them it's nearly impossible to win with the numbers they had. 3 - They are not Earth military. They are mercenaries. That's why when they have a bomber at the end, it's cobbled together, because they didn't plan on needing a bomber. Their vehicle wasn't optimized for that task because that's not what it's for. Their role isn't shock and awe, it's resource collection. The RDA is not the US military, it's more like blackwater mercenaries. Who I think would easily lose if an entire planets' ecosystem came alive and attacked them.

[@m1santhropist410]

The avatar segment of the video explains really well why that is not a relevant point. If destroying aliens for resources is the focus, you'd have a warhammer 40k type of universe. That's not the point of Avatar, which despite having blue people in it is always and exclusively portraying aspects of humanity.

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

@m1santhropist410 Painfully obvious themes are not enough to make up for bad writing. The humans want to eradicate the Navi. They are so advanced that the Navi don't have a prayer of winning. The plot literally has to break itself in over to have the noble savages beat the colonizers. Like I pointed out, just the ships landing would be enough to wipe out an entire settlement, yet that's never weaponized in either movie.

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

@51TD0wN I'm referring to the second movie, where you clearly see the landing rockets devastate huge areas, enough that it would be child's play to weaponize. The ecosystem doesn't matter when you have those kinds of resources and firepower. They wouldn't have to destroy everything, just the settlements of the Navi tribes.

[@51TD0wN]

@@jeggsonvohees2201 Yeah, didn't they win in the second movie? I don't get what point you're trying to make here.

[@Asterleena-gd9gv]

Thank-you so much for speaking up about this. I've been watching so many people say Optimus is the villain and Megatron the hero. It makes me afraid what is coming over our society 😔. We need people to actually realise what's going on or else we'll become the villains ourselves. In the words of Larry Cullen, "Be strong enough to be gentle". That's the kind of heroes we need now.

[@frostbite7434-kb5ub]

I think Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader from the prequel trilogy from Star Wars is a great example of a sympathetic villain who had a very tragic backstory but he let his darkness rage and hate consumed him and letting him self be minipulatied by palpatine and him wanting more power Which leads to him killing everyone in the Jedi Temple and see how far he has truly fallen with the infamous scene of him killing all the Jedi younglings as well as him doing all his other horrible actions he has done now going under the Persona of Darth Vader I think he's the perfect balance of being sympathetic to the audience but as well as him being evil and you understanding that you don't want to end or end up like him And he's like a Combination of D16 and Paul Atreides You mention in you video BTW

[@toxicpony3381]

Well said. I think that there is one more aspect of symphatising with villains - the challenge. Often villains try to do something big, to reforge world in their own (still evil) way, only to be stopped by heroes. This inspires questions, what the villain (or viewer/player etc. in his place) could do better to win. It is like wondering to this day (and many serious people do that actually) - could 3rd Reich win against USSR in 1941/2 and how it should be?

[@Aquageo555]

A sympathetic villain is fine, its the problem of their backstory is used to excuse their actions.

[@Enginskywalks]

Out of all the Metal Gear villains to talk about Armstrong is probably the lowest hanging fruit imo(still love him as a character). One that people seems to identify the most with is Big Boss even though MGSV was a message to those people who idolize and want to be like him that a life lived in that way is one of pain and suffering where you eventually are used and die for someone else’s cause. Always remember: “The world would be better off without Snakes”

[@andrewrogers3067]

Imo the reason many villains are glorified is because many people can’t relate to idealistic heroes. When you look at history, there are MANY Megatrons. Vladimir Lenin who overthrew an autocratic monarchy but killed everyone who opposed. Mao Zedong who overthrew the tyrannical and merciless KMT but instituted a China worse then one underneath them. And many others. The problem with the real world is that idealistic leadership or heroes very rarely exist. Villains like the ones mentioned are sadly far more common and far more realistic than the heroes. That maximum realism is why many people find it hard to glorify heroes that seem unreachable, but glorify villains who parallel real people.

[@itsjustvin7630]

Funny how you avoided the big H and the man who made Mother Russia his bitch

[@train4292]

I think the reason people sympathize a lot with villains these days is because of how crap the world became in the last few years. Especially recently. A lot of things just straight up suck.

[@d.r.dproductions6519]

For me Megatron is the embodiment of the road to hell os paved with good intentions he starts out wanting good but more and more he wants MORE and he becomes the very problem he wants to destroy he is a villain and while agree with up until a point for me what turned me against megatron was when He martyred sentinel by tearing him in half and wanting to burn everything down that is megatron a revolutionary turned in tyrant

[@Jason-yb7dd]

“It takes strength to resist the dark side. Only the weak embrace it” -Obi Wan Kenobi

[@jaieregilmore971]

It’s gets more annoying when fans trying to sympathize with characters like Darth Vader and Kylo ren forgets they still villains and making excuses that it was the good guys created them like no everything was there own fault. Sometimes I’m tired of heroes sympathize with villains while forgetting all the evil they had down to the innocent those lives are never coming back.

[@eagleclan6798]

My only disagreement with your video is the RDA. There was a large amount of scenes that were cut for the sake of shortening film which fleshed out the RDA's reasons for displacing the Na'vi. Earth was facing an energy crisis due to overpopulation, and Unobtanium was a crucial resource in preventing said crisis. To me atleast, being able to understand and relate to why a villain is doing what they're doing, and agreeing with their actions are two different things that shouldn't be mixed. Other than my personal gripe, this was a good video.

[@TheSEAempire]

Even if humanity needed Unobtanium, that still doesn’t justify genocide 🤷‍♂️

[@eagleclan6798]

@TheSEAempire Agreed, nothing justifies genocide. I personally thought the added context would have made the movie more compelling because the portrayal of the RDA acting solely on capitalistic greed removed any nuance. Not saying genocide is right, just that making Avatar so black and white was a missed opportunity imo.

[@Automaton237]

​@@TheSEAempireI do agree genocide can't be justified although the navi weren't so peaceful themselves the person who was supposed to make a deal with them stopped to have sex with an alien which meant they couldn't come up with an agreement and would have conflict in the future.

[@ZX-Gear]

@TheSEAempire I dunno. The Quintessons is about every continuity make a great case to be an exception to that rule.

[@jlee2009100]

Thank God someone actually made a video discussing this. Saying "the bad guy was actually right!" was a cool plot twist the first 1 or 2 times I heard it, but at this point its just what every edgy teenager chad-wanna-be says when they think they are being super "original." I'm sick of it. No, the Empire from Star Wars was NOT right. No, the Decepticons are NOT good guys. Were there some things they did (most likely on accident) that may have been good? Perhaps. Were the some bad things the rebels and autobots did that were wrong? If you dig deep enough, probably. That does not flip the relationship though. It doesn't change the fact that the Empire committed genocides that make hitler look like a petty criminal, and the Decepticons literally try to kill/enslave all humanity every chance they get. Imagine if the autobots were real and you were one of them. You just got done risking life and limb fighting for an alien race and their homeworld even though you could easily turned your back and left, and a lot of friends died along side you fighting for said aliens. You do all this, only to turn around and see half of the creatures you almost died defending pointing their fingers at you saying you're the evil bad guy and the decepticon(who were actively trying to kill them) were actually right! SMH Edit: I haven't seen thte new TF movie. Was mostly writing this viewing star wars and TF from the perspective of the whole franchise and not one particular comic book/movie/show.

[@frostscythe910]

Not only this but it ruins the writing of the villains that are actually misunderstood

[@KnightsOfCamelore]

This is a very important video, especially for writers.

[@robertj.3383]

There's also this weird trend to make good guys out of villains. Like Negan on walking dead. And Biff from back to the future in a back to the future and transformers cross over comic. Also the comics made Megatron a good guy.

[@TheMeditatingRaven]

I think it depends on what villains you are watching as well. While Amon in Legend of Korra and Mr. Freeze in Batman are a bit murky because, as anti-villains, their means are horrible but their motivations understandable, villains like Joker, Freddy Krueger, and Ghostface lack any redeeming qualities. So the villainy of the latter is better maintained in people’s consciousness than the former. I personally find anti-heroes more interesting. People like Punisher, Specter, Daredevil, and Jason Todd/Red Hood, who make us question that, in the pursuit of justice and protecting innocents, how far we are willing to go? Who has the better point about Joker, Red Hood or Batman? It is the battle between idealism and pragmatism when it comes to peace, justice, and protection of the innocent.

[@petermj1098]

The problem isn’t Victor Fries tries to cure Nora, the problem is that Fries thinks Nora is the only humanity in his life and his humanity is gone without her. Fries sacrificed his humanity for Nora and became a robotic coldhearted murderer.

[@TheMeditatingRaven]

@ I honestly would not disagree with that.

[@ravindupadmanath2802]

It might get to a point where writers HAVE to make the villain so irredeemable and a complete b*sta*d that the audience won't agree or worship them. Villain: I'm going to massacre an entire civilization due to the government. Audience: see the government was responsible for the villain's choices therefore they are in the right and they should kill everyone Also Villain: *drinks Starbucks* Audience: OMG THEY GONE TOO FAR!! THEY NEED TO BE STOPPED NO MATTER WHAT!!

[@kingorange7739]

I don’t think it comes down to that as much as really ensuring that the protagonist is written in a manner that showcases their more correct morality. The thing is, with the exception of a few edge lords, I don’t think most people actually suffer a “villain worship” problem. There may be villains they sympathize with and even agree with points villains make.

[@ravindupadmanath2802]

@kingorange7739 ik I just wanted to make a joke 😃

[@kingorange7739]

@ ah fair enough

[@ryszakowy]

government destruction is acceptable drinking gaybucks not

[@saitama_thecapedbaldy3489]

Meanwhile Villain: *buys snacks from Starbucks* The audience:😱💀

[@onefairyfan87]

I just like villains because of how evil they are, I don’t relate to them because they’re tragic. I love villains like Junko Enoshima, Dr. Doom, Kuroto Dan, Anton Chigur, Solf J. Kimblee, Bondrewd, Homelander, Lex Luthor (specifically the DCAU), MCU Thanos. A relatable villain to me is a villain that actually DOES show signs of being relatable while also showing they can be redeemed and could be good, a sad backstory does not make the villain that relatable if they’re still incredibly evil. Villains can be adored but not because they can be good, we need to like villains for how they’re the opposite of the heroes, don’t glorify bad guys because they can be good people, I say cheer on a bad a guy because of how far they’re willing to be evil. That way, when the heroes do succeed, it’s that much more satisfying.

[@Notaro_D_Ryogami]

DAN KUROTO MENTIONED RAAAAAAAHH

[@dougwalker8068]

My favorite RPG of all time is Overlord 2. The point of the game is to be an evil dark lord taking over a fantasy world with an army of goblins. The tutorial of a game is about clubbing baby seals to death to harvest their life force to make more minions. They didn't need to justify it. They knew it was pure evil, and that was the whole draw of it. When did we develop this cope where we need to justify our villain in order to like them?

[@squishyazalea9970]

We’re not worsgipping villians, we’re worshipping a well written character. Atleast imo

[@TheSEAempire]

You don’t speak for the things I’ve seen.

[@taqresu5865]

It's worth noting that a good villain is also a foil for the hero. In many cases, the Hero and villain experience a mirrored conflict, and are defined by how they confront it. With Optimus and Megatron in Transformers One, the exploitation they experienced is the same, the corrupt system set in place by Sentinel is the enemy to them both. And what we watch is how they both choose to change their circumstances. Prime wanted to expose Sentinel and rebuild Cybertron anew for his fellow Cybertronians. Megatron only wanted to tear everything down until only he remained. Likewise we see this with Thanos and the Avengers. They both want to confront injustice, but Thanos chose Genocide, whereas Captain America perfectly encapsulated their side by saying "we don't trade lives." By framing the Hero and Villain this way, the conflict then becomes a conversation of ideals. The stalwart these characters are in their ideals, the bigger the conflict and stakes become. And the more engaging it is because we know neither side will back down.

[@Risk658]

I only related to D-16 because of the life I lived, the abuse I endured from my father made me relate to D-16. Obviously I wouldn't go as far as him, but I do understand him.

[@BatAmerica]

That's why it's good writing.

[@papermr.magolorguy7957]

I genuinely feel like nihilism in storytelling has a contributing factor to this new growing wave of villian worship. Heroes are looked down upon as “Childish, boring, and preachy and cheesy.” (People who complain about Superman, Mario Bros, Frodo) Good doesn’t have to mean boring. And although we shouldn’t quickly label people as downright evil, there are most definitely evil people in the world that make the choices you make harm people with the knowledge you know that will happen.

[@nont18411]

Nihilistic storytelling was popularized by George RR Martin’s “Game of Thrones” which set the trend for more than a decade now. Just look at how he loves to brutally murder or torture heroes while rewarding, even glorifying the acts of villains as something “smart”. That’s why the smartest character in his story is a serial betrayer and a pedophile like Littlefinger and the character that gets the most respect that the audience want to become is Tywin Lannister, a genocidal dictator, while good people like Ned Stark and Jon Snow are generally perceived as noble idiots.

[@arjunthemadlad]

Megatron no longer became sympathetic when he killed Sentinel. He became just as bad as sentinel, Many versions of megatron start off good , and turn evil.

[@StuckonStupid84]

This video: Stop worshipping villains. Me: No.

[@TheSEAempire]

😭

[@TheGalacticNerd19]

I hate how people tried to twist a pure evil villain’s goals into “he’s misunderstood” like Emperor Palpatine or orcs are supposed to be evil for the sake of being evil

[@Godzillakingofkaiju1]

I've seen people do this with King Ghidorah. They see a misunderstood outsider with a three way split personality and a rough relationship with Rodan. When in actuality, Ghidorah is the closest thing the MonsterVerse has to a supervillain who nearly wiped out humankind and subjugated Rodan into being his lackey. Why else do you think he bowed to Godzilla after all was said and done?

[@twindevils1617]

U have the incels biggest idol homelander and omni man to thank for this trend. The boys, invincible are the epitomy of why soi boys incels find comfort in them

[@HOLDENPOPE]

Isn't Omni-Man explicitly supposed to be in the wrong, though?

[@twindevils1617]

@HOLDENPOPE bruh u would be surprised to see how many idiots support him simply because it's so cool and awesome to support a edgy superman wannabe

[@nont18411]

Nah, this trend existed in the first place because of The Dark Knight and Game of Thrones.

[@MrFish1124]

I'm an incel and I'm not sure I follow. Sure I think they're neat characters. I wasn't as interested in The Boys as much as I was Invincible though but because I'm biased towards animation. But I'm very confused as to why you believe I find comfort in these characters solely because I'm uncomfortable with sex? The idea of being physical with a woman makes me extremely uncomfortable, so that makes me an incel. I don't understand what Homelander or Omniman have to do with that though.

[@ZX-Gear]

Oh please. Homelander is a baby compared to his dad,Soldier Boy.

[@IsaiahAmos017]

The villains are usually more attractive than the heroes I think that might have something to do with people Sympathizing with them. There are many people that are legitimately attracted to senator Armstrong David Jones and Gaston

[@SpencersRain]

@@IsaiahAmos017 there’s a lot of people attracted to Raiden and Will Turner as well. I don’t think looks are what’s winning people over to the villain side.

[@IsaiahAmos017]

I'll take tentacle sad boi over a handsome english man any day

[@nicolausg7058]

Honestly, it is hard not to root for humans in the Avatar. We have relativly weak humans,far away from home, send to mine a resource that is supposed to help them fix own world or at least help escape.. Besides RDA was very lax for the Navi in the movie - they tried to explain it all to the Na'vi but Jake screwed up the mission he had to do in the first place. Don't forget - survival of humanity is still an important thing. After all what is more moral ? Scaring off some primitives so you can mine the resources to save your children ? Or let your children die for those aliens ? Not to mention that humans in the Avatar are just humans - each of them is probably a normal person trying to make the living. When I say I see humans as the good guys - these are people I root for, not the corporation.

[@quantumvideoscz2052]

I think a BIG reason people tend to agree with and even worship villainous fictional characters the second the characters get a tragic story and some depth (which Megatron definitely gets) is that they do not think the same way about real-life "villains". Another commenter mentioned a certain Austrian painter and how he experienced the horrors of WW1 etc., yet none of that justifies his actions in the slightest. I don't think most people see him this way. I think most people do not see the bad things that happened to this "painter" at all and simply assume him to be a privileged monster with no real struggles. Like a certain Sentinel Prime. They do not see that most real "villains" do have "tragic backstories", yet their atrocities are not excusable because of it. And when they see a character with depth and tragedy who turns to villainy, especially when they identify with the struggles the character went through and are sympathetic towards them, they don't connect it with the real world and simply assume the character to actually be good because "real villains don't have tragic backstories". You see this very often with anime villains. Someone like Dabi from My Hero Academia is absolutely horrible, yet he has an extraordinary amount of "fans" who defend his actions with the justification of his tragic backstory.

[@ladygrey7425]

All of this

[@rtsk7009]

For those who still worship Villain because their “misjudgment”, “misunderstood”, something that relatable in life. LOOK and always REMEMBER The “Spider”… i am just saying and not exaggerated. (Being “Good” wasn’t an Option or Choice. But its about to do what’s right even do it hurt yourself and banished yourself from ideal wrong moral in Society)

[@vanndymaywho1910]

I agree… but recent media has for some reason been on a trend of deconstructing our heroes, and it all unfortunately started with Luke Skywalker in the Last Jedi. Despite me agreeing that Luke would go a bit paranoid about the potential of another Vader showing up in the world, but then it all got messy from there onwards. Palpatine’s coup never made sense to kid me but now I realize that he was always the baddie pretending to be good, his grand plan was destroying the Jedi and letting the Sith rule the galaxy… all be it in secret and not in name. Which is why it’s called the Galactic Empire and not the Sith Empire.

[@errorcringyname4044]

I like unredeemable villains. But not every villain needs to be unredeemable. And villains are generally praissd because current morals are not universally considered correct so supporting them is an act of rebellion in a way. Morals aren't objective and the sway of morality tends to be portrayed by what villains people sympathise with or support. But hey thats just my garbage take.

[@juliandixon891]

Frankly people worship anti-hero’s more than villains. Hero’s are the holier than thou unrealistic types that’s why people love flawed hero’s and hero’s that aren’t afraid to cross lines a villain would to stop a bigger threat. While villains are relatable because they were normal or good people until too many lines were crossed and they hit their breaking point or circumstances in their lives showed them a different side of reality than people who didn’t have it so hard. What they show is no one is pure good or pure evil, but what circumstances and crossed lines can change a person in either direction.

[@MutantsInDisguise]

Antiheroes are just seemingly well-meaning human garbage.

[@gersonanaknabergersonanakn8692]

This I agreed, I prefer anti-heroes and anti-villain, the former because it shows a flawed character that can be better, the latter more about how villain can still have that redeem quality and redeem themselves for their people

[@erickghoul174]

Seeing the traditional Hero as the “holier than thou, unrealistic type” is just the result of having a cynical world view. A well written hero is a flawed one that will continually have their morals and ethics tested either by circumstances, by their past, by their personal desires and emotions, OR by a well written villain who will push them to their limits and force them to make hard decisions, bringing the best out of them in the end. While anti-heroes appeal to our desires for immediate gratification and justice, their recklessness and selfish motives and ambitions should never be fully commended. The traditional hero always takes the much harder path than the ani- hero by having to be more disciplined, measured, patient and overall selfless in the actions they take which in my opinion, makes them more compelling characters

[@juliandixon891]

@erickghoul174 That's the view most kids tend to have with hero's, that's why they look up to them while they're younger until they see the real world and it's hardships firsthand as adults. Then, the anti-hero starts to become more realistic and relatable by comparison.

[@stevensteviepryde5888]

Surprised you didn't mention Thanos, despite being such a huge example. He wants to wipe out half of all life in the universe to prevent the tragedy that ruined his own world, but he's so stuck in his old ways that he can't see with the infinity gauntlet, he can just create more resources instead of taking away more life. I've heard people say "well they'd still just burn through the resources too fast" but that's bologna because if he doubles the resources it's the exact same ratio so by that logic, Thanos would still be wrong.

[@reganbeazley5810]

Actually, I think the writers said that he really just wants to be right, and is just throwing a hissy-fit over it. What he said at the end of endgame probably says that.

[@jeremychicken3339]

He wants to wipe out half of all life not for resource concerns, that's just a cover story he convinced himself of, the real reason was that Thanos is a simp for lady death and wanted to impress her.

[@reganbeazley5810]

@@jeremychicken3339 In the comics, at least.

[@jeremychicken3339]

@@reganbeazley5810 I'm willing to say it's true in the MCU as well, otherwise thanos would have chosen the less violent "Make Resources Plentiful" route.

[@MrDestroyah-kf6ov]

I miss my pure evil villains with no redeeming qualities

[@dootrevenant7203]

We still get them as much as tragic villains. Where do you get the notion that pure evil is not as common nowadays?

[@no.1spidey-fan182]

​@@dootrevenant7203 from basically every single form of content. Everyone has some sad feel sorry for me story these days and people latch on to that and excuse their villainy

[@no.1spidey-fan182]

Facts I miss my Slades and Vilgaxes😢😔

[@Jackalmercenary-t7y]

If y’all want a no redeeming villain Jack Horner from puss in boots 2 is right there

[@SpencersRain]

@@MrDestroyah-kf6ov once pure evil villains become the dominant trope you will miss the days of nuanced, sympathetic villains. It’s a cycle. People ultimately care less about the content and more about how fresh and original it is. Audiences get bored quite quickly.

[@darkzeroprojects4245]

Look I get it, but think "worship" is kind of a stretch.

[@ENOURMOUSSCALE]

No one worships megatron but we need a sequel to show how evil he becomes like u will be thinking he is pure evil is when he harvest and takes out his own miners cogs to make them work in some comics

[@TheSEAempire]

HAHAHAHAHA You’d be surprised.

[@ENOURMOUSSCALE]

@ bro like dune as well Paul becomes the villain by the third movie

[@ENOURMOUSSCALE]

@@TheSEAempire however villains should be evil not pure evil as that will just feel mean spirited and one dimensional like the book I have no mouth and I must scream

[@FXV56]

God i hope we'll get a trillogy like they wanted despite the fact that hasbro now no longer supports movies because they're flops

[@TheSEAempire]

@ENOURMOUSSCALE what’s objectively wrong with simple villains?

[@glackinator_0459]

Don’t forget the amount of people thinking heroes doing heroic things is bad because it isn’t “realistic” ie. Batman’s no kill rule, Superman’s and Optimus Prime’s compassion, etc. Like, bruh, stfu with that bullshit. If you think heroes should kill or shouldn’t try to be compassionate, then you don’t love or understand the heroes you supposedly say you do

[@ogfortify7674]

Its one thing to understand a villain, its another to worship them

[@rebelblade7159]

I think its due to how modern heroes are becoming less and less likeable alongside issues with writing that doesn't do a good job at convincing the audience why they should side with the hero. And in some cases like Fate/Apocrypha, the "villain" is actually right while the Hero can't bring up any good counter argument. There's also morally bad villains that gain a following simply out of style and spectacle. Kilgore in Apocalypse Now is a good example due to his iconic lines and screen time. People can't seem to realize the fact that his character shows the absurdity of war where the ACTUAL effective soldier Kurtz is ordered to be terminated by command in order to save face for the top brass after pictures of his atrocities get revealed but Kilgore is far from a warfighter as he only seeks gratification in war as escapism and the famous beach assault shows not only indiscriminate targeting of civilians but casualties to the US side as well due to how callously it was executed. Kurtz still values morality and acknowledges his enemies as humans while fighting to end the war while Kilgore doesn't even do that and instead uses war as a form of psychotic self-gratification.

[@airicastarwall1349]

I agree. There are many villains I enjoy watching; Loki, Metatron (especially from TF1), Darth Vader, etc. But I don't root for them, even if they do have a good point.

[@Influence417]

That would be easier if people didn't make them look cool and hot nowadays. Motives are one thing, charisma is another as to why we idolize villains. This also can be applied to heroes, but villains and antagonists get the glaze often.

[@SpottedHares]

Maybe one thing you may have missed is how often fiction gets a little too handholding with the “good guys”. I think it’s clear that this is probably continuation of Megatron being wrong. But notice how the autobody conveniently get mindless drones they can kill without having to think about morality, but ONLY Megatron has a living sentient being to fight back against. It’s a bit harder to sympathize with the heroes when it feels like storytellers are unintentionally having them operate on easy mode.

[@nont18411]

Actually I think this is the problem with the writers more than the Autobots themselves because those drones aren’t mindless. There are some who ran away after seeing Bumblebee which means they are sentient. But the script kinda overlook that Autobots killed many nameless sentient henchmen with a smile on their faces while being horrified at the side of Megatron killing the main villain, which makes the Autobots look hypocritical in an instant. The Autobots were hurt by the common superhero trope of “I’m okay with killing nameless random goons but god forbid I kill the main bad guy because killing is wrong”.

[@karan3658]

This literally applies to an anime character who always says "tatakae" 😊😊😊

[@Sunset_Serenity]

Hard Agree, it’s okay to like and love things but to straight up idolize or worship things….buddy…that’s weird.

[@xzerodarr]

GOD DAMN FINALLY SOME ONE GETS IT I've hated for years all the villain worship and sympathizing people have been doing. its like he's the BAD guy for a reason. you're NOT supposed to want to be like them I feel vindicated

[@TheSEAempire]

🫡

[@nseven1117]

it's okay to be entertained by villains. at the end of the day it's just fiction, it's made up. a lot of the villains I like are some of the most evil and irredeemable characters (Frollo, Sauron, and The Lich King being a few). but to idolize them, acting like they were the "heroes" the whole time because they were "right" to a very limited extent is just plain stupid.

[@cosmiccandlz377]

I believe in balance. There are many different characters that do wrong things, but have good intentions. Those villains that do evil just because... I agree with this video.

[@MutantsInDisguise]

Thanks! You can have a villain as your favorite villain, but think of them as cautionary tales, not as inspiration. Gosh, now villains are there to soothe a 40-years-old adult's ego with the mind of a teenager who needs to be told every fucking thing is justifiable, no matter how wrong it is.

[@aidenmonroy97]

For TF one they did a terrific job as portrayed megatrons descent into a sympathetic villain, but given the chance for future installments they could do wonders by showing his fall into true irredeemable villainy with more atrocious actions

[@CrocsFortress]

I think Megatron was right in trying to bring down Sentinel since he’s pure evil trash but killing him just proved that this was about HIS revenge, not anyone else’s. Like I think he’s right for being angry but he’s wrong for ripping him in half.

[@grvhntr3003]

yeah, he just wasted intel on the quintessons for killing him, if he spared him that can be useful to fight back quintessons

[@nickthepick8043]

It's so reassuring to see so many people likeminded these days on how hard it actually is being noble & good in the world. They don't take people like us seriously for it. Because we can live with the hardship, while they cannot or they don't seek out the means to do so themselves.

[@mynde8633]

According to the Bible humans are shaped in iniquity and sin, that means we were all born evil, but by God's grace we can be saved. Because of our nature it is so much easier to be drawn to evil than good, especially in trying times.

[@LaZonaDiRin3743]

Bible is a fantasy like Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings, the entire "Humans are born with the sin" is a bullshit.

[@MrFish1124]

I think villains are cool because they often drive the conflict of a story and are central to it's themes and motivations or the heroes. But I didn't realize there were genuinely lots people worshipping the villains. I dislike a lot of the modern trend of deconstructing all the heroes because it's all ripe with the writers cynicism and disdain. But when the villain comes out and just exudes confidence and has great stage presence, it's hard not to latch on. Same reason I love the hero All Might from MHA. "Have no fear, because I am here" is something I just absolutely love in a hero.

[@marcusblackwell2372]

Crisis On Infinite Earths' old Superman had the right idea

[@somerandomguy7325]

1:45 Counterpoint to this! He literally made racism I think Megatron gets a pass

[@DmanDmythDlegend]

Since you bring up Pirates of the Caribbean, what is your opinion on Jack? Because he’s clearly not a hero but he’s not evil either. Jack can be really selfish a lot of the time, but there’s a heart and good man there, so how do you think the audience should perceive him?

[@TheSEAempire]

He’s one of the protagonists, and his arc is about becoming a true selfless hero… until the fourth and fifth film kinda forgot that.

[@gameenthusiast3790]

I saw people call Orion bastard for aparently trying to save Sentinel And keep him in power like WTF are you smoking?!

[@lihkan]

I agree with you, but there are some counter-points to Avatar, which explains the affinity people may have with RDA: 1) Humans vs. Aliens: Plain and simple, Humans are tribal creatures, and are prone to "us over them". If you put humans as the bud guys, lot of people are compelled to side with...themselves. Mind you, I am not saying it right, just that is a fact. Avatar 2 then made it even more problematic, when it turned from corporate greed to issue of human survival. And yes, by some objective standpoint, why should humans have second planet to ruin, but position of humans is simply relatable. If the setting was "humanity is doing fine, but corporation is ruining Pandora for simple greed", it would be much less prone to villain worship. 2) Too perfect natives: Lot of people (me included) dislike Navi for being far too idealised take on natives in connection with nature. They are Mary Sues. People tend to empathize with flawed characters more, because they are flawed themselves. This also reflects current world issue with idolizing pre-Columbian american natives (and while we can probably all agree that colonization is not OK, they did lot of brutal and savage things). 3) Cool stuff and duality of JC: Lets be honest, James Cameron is known for being total nerd, and his movies gave us some of the most iconic scifi technology, vehicles, and so on. Its why we like his movies. And you can see his tech boner in Avatar in spades. He gives you the most realistic space ship, cool (and yet beliveable) mechs and VTOLs. He shows you scenes of terrible destruction and human (well, Navi) loss and pain, but cant stop masturbating how cool his vehicles and weapons looks. The scene of ISVs landing is terrible tragedy, but its one of the coolest scenes that ever touched cinema.

[@blueshellhater1845]

In case of Megatron, the inexcusable action his definitely the betrayal. Killing Sentinel may morally be wrong, but this alone does not make him the villain. If we were to cut out the betrayal he is now an anti hero in the story.

[@agsdragon5475]

I can understand readable villains or sympathetic villains, but we need to know that we still need pure evil and hate sink villains meanly to teach us the kind of people we should never be