Stopping the String: the myth of finger pressure

[@ogstopper]

I'm 70 and have been learning for a year. I have callouses on my left finger tips, and my fingerboard is already wearing out. This is the FIRST time that I learned that you don't need to try to weld the string to the fingerboard when you are playing a note. So, from this old boy - THANK YOU!!

[@tullochgorum6323]

Another advantage of light finger pressure is that the hand is always ready to shift without adjustment. No need to release tension under the finger before you move - so one less issue to worry about and coordinate!

[@JamieNotLamie]

FINALLY! As someone who is self teaching, how to actually PRESS my finger to play a note was never covered in any video and now I know why when I press a note, I think my violin is broken. 😅 You are the bomb!

[@pravinsubkaran2418]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge on music by teaching on how to play . God Bless You.

[@ImogenValkyrie]

I got calluses on my fingers until my previous teacher and my orchestra buddy said that I didn’t have to push hard on the strings. Then there was a few years of gap that I didn’t take up violin. Nowadays i took it up again doing scales and etudes. Got calluses again and now I found this video as a reminder for me that i iust have to touch the strings. Thank you so much!! ❤❤

[@AVToth]

Bless you! I know it is understood that the younger a person is when they begin to learn an instrument, the violin, easier it is to learn. Ii took that to heart and instead of waiting until I was 65, I started at 63.😉 I have rheumatoid arthritis and my fingers tire quickly when I'm pressing to hard. This will make a huge difference.

[@nickiemcnichols5397]

Kudos to you! I’m 72 and I just started learning violin two months ago. It’s so good to know that we don’t need much pressure on the strings!

[@AVToth]

@@nickiemcnichols5397 I saw a You Tube video of Yehudi Menuhin (sp?) He demonstrated pressure by putting a piece of paper under the strings. When he started, he was applying the pressure his students were and it creased the paper. He did this several more times and showed that to get a good sound, the pressure required didn't even mark the paper! If you can find it, it's great

[@kenfiliano3776]

perfect! thanks for posting. very organic and not spoken about enough ___ yet all "the greats" seem to have awareness of this. 🙏🏼 glad you posted this.

[@toddpj2166]

Best video that explains this!! This helped me a lot. Thank you!!

[@gohryu2004]

@toddpj2166, thank you for the kind comment. I hope you find something useful in my videos and wish you the best in your violin playing journey!

[@alpha_jasperflair1097]

THANK YOU SO MUCH MAN, I never knew this was such a big problem for me, i always thought i won’t master going down the E string because it was too high and the pressure of my fingers just dont work well i thought my fingers were the big problem, it was my friggin wrist lmao.

[@infinitepawer]

Never knew that Arnold Schwarzenegger can play violin. Good stuff.

[@gohryu2004]

Thanks for compliment! I used to train MMA a lot and so the leftover musculature is just from me trying to keep my body in somewhat decent health. Wishing you all the best!

[@shawnchristopherwhite3271]

I practice my violin for an hour each day, then I go to the gym to workout - my two favourite things in life.

[@hamwhacker]

Is it just me or does your bow look twice as long? 😀

[@robertbrawley5048]

Yes this video is 60 years old

[@robertbrawley5048]

​@gohryu2004 it's not your muscles it your face that looks like Arnold's

[@dianerenke635]

Thanks!!! That was a question I've had for awhile!!!

[@RS-pt4bw]

If you listen carefully, you can hear, that the sound is not clear, due to lack of weight of the fingers. Also the changes between notes are note clear, every time a little wistle. Try instead: let fall the fingers like little hammers an then release the weight. The result will be much clearer.

[@gohryu2004]

Hi, this is a topic discussed in a separate video. Yes, finger speed is an important topic for clarity.

[@teresarockdriguez623]

Thanks a lot! i don´t know if is my imagination but when you play with the perfect amount of "pressure" you can actually feel how the string vibrate under your finger and it has more ressonance. its a bit harder to make it sound good but when you find the perfect hand position and the feeling for it you can replicate the good sound without much efford.

[@gohryu2004]

It is not your imagination. If you get it right, a light left hand pressure with good bow support creates one of the most pure and innocent tones a violin can make. Cheers and here is to all of us finding a deeper passion for this amazing instrument!

[@violynnkuo]

What a great video! Thanks so much! A student led me to your video and it’s wonderful to see this discussion. Thanks for the close-up views! I also love your discussion of categorizing violinists into two categories in terms of fourth finger length/technique (which I’ve read in your comments below). I filmed a How To Strengthen Fourth Finger tutorial that addresses those of us who have shorter fourth fingers. Your video is very helpful in terms of seeing your fourth finger as well. Thank you!

[@gohryu2004]

Thanks for the wonderful comments! I think it is great you've made a video about strengthening the 4th finger considering its importance for the hand frames. I'll go search for your video to see the information you're sharing to see how I can apply it to my own students. In my humble opinion, I feel it is good for all teachers to leave videos for our students to reference because each teacher has a unique perspective due to the difficulties they've overcome to become the artists and teachers that they are. Thank you abd best wishes to you abd your students. From your comments, I believe your students are lucky to have you as their teacher. All the best!

[@violynnkuo]

@@gohryu2004 So glad to connect with a fellow teaching artist, Chia-Chien. (I’ve subscribed!) And 100% agreed: we can all learn from other artists and teachers. I love learning from my students as well as they provide a lot of great ideas and insight as well. I’ll leave a link to my Fourth Finger video here to save you from hunting for it 🙂: I believe I’ve seen one of your posts on Facebook in the past as well. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioe4oaWNf7qofMU

[@iggyzorro2406]

thank you. light touch is always tough to accomplish. I'll keep working on it.

[@Hallofhealing]

My God I used to think I had to use a much pressure as a guitar player uses on the fret board. No wonder my finger tips always hurt.

[@erzas556]

Thank you so much for this tip. I have a very weak hand and I suffer from tension because of pressing.

[@ivanmarcelovirtuoso]

Your tip is brilliant and from a physics point of view it makes perfect sense.

[@JohnThomWebb]

Too many teachers don't teach this. It is fundamental to playing well.

[@tullochgorum6323]

Something I carried over from ergonomic cello technique - aiming for the space slightly below the string, and stopping it from the lower side with the pad rather than the tip. It only takes a light touch, and works beautifully for both long and short notes. Using the pad rather than the tip also gives more scope for expressive vibrato. Distinguished pedagogue Prof Rodney Friend recommends practising in 5ths to get a feel for the relaxed hand frame required.

[@gohryu2004]

Practicing in 5yhs is also something I strongly support. Fantastic comment and idea. Thank you!

[@tullochgorum6323]

@@gohryu2004 What I'm working towards is the feeling that the fingers are lightly dancing on the edge of the string. Sadly, easier said than done, once the music gets more challenging!

[@gohryu2004]

@@tullochgorum6323 yes, the struggle is very real for all of us!

[@nraelserutluc8669]

🙋🏻‍♀️Good morning Mr. Chien-Goh. Ty for informative tutorial & your perspective on finger pressure. It is something that I was seeking GOD, for an answer over; since I’m learning, on my own. Ty again GD bless you.

[@gohryu2004]

Hello, thank you for the wonderful comment! I have so much respect and admiration for people who choose to learn the violin on their own, as it is a very challenging instrument. I wish you only the best in your journey on the violin and I hope I can make videos that continue to be helpful to others. All the best!

[@k98killer]

Wow. Wish I had learned this from the start -- my fingertips would be a lot less calloused and sore from practicing. Another significant difference between guitar and violin, I suppose.

[@k98killer]

Addendum: I think my bridge might be too tall. I'll have to do some comparisons.

[@nickiemcnichols5397]

New subscriber here. So nice to know I need minimal finger pressure on the strings!

[@stuntdouble777]

Excellent lesson thank you

[@davidbrandt6925]

Very good explanation thank you!

[@conniechan3280]

Thanks .GOD BLESS YOU

[@ChrisEbbrsen]

Thank you, Dr.

[@gohryu2004]

My honor and pleasure!

[@antonvf9619]

fantastic ! many thanks!

[@Skavatar789]

tried it on my cello. it kinda works for the A and D strings, my fingertip can be very slightly up off the fingerboard. but the G and C strings my fingertip still needs to be touching the fingerboard or it produces that screeching sound. but i don't have to apply as much downward force as I usually use.

[@gohryu2004]

I just talked to a luthier about this. He told me that this happens when a cello is not properly set up by a good luthier. His advice is to seek out reputable luthier amongst cellists and have your instrument checked for proper set up. I hope this helps!

[@davidhuckaby832]

Thanks for your info! I will use it. Great video.

[@gohryu2004]

Thank you!

[@gohryu2004]

Thank you! Wishing you the best and hope all is well!

[@gunsngunpla]

I remember you trying to teach me this years ago. Also remember my mind going completely blank because it wasn't clicking at the time.

[@gohryu2004]

It's OK. I didn't explain it well at that time. I got better at explaining though. Hopefully in 10 years, I'll be even better at explaining it than I am now! Lol!

[@gunsngunpla]

@@gohryu2004 Naw you explained it just fine. My headspace just wasn't processing the info. I actually came around to getting the concept years later because you had planted the idea in my head. So it wasn't all for naught. You just weren't around to see the fruits of your labor haha.

[@dovbrodkin4497]

Thank you very much for this video. It helped me a lot. Could you do video on where to put the left thumb? I have a long thumb and can't figure out a good place to put it without tension.

[@gohryu2004]

Dear Dov, I will definitely add a video on left thumb to the list of upcoming topics. I'm glad this video helped. Please feel free to let me know any other topics I could try to help you with in the future!

[@dovbrodkin4497]

Chia-Chien Goh Thank you.

[@yuukig5617]

Thank you for teaching and having this topic. As a beginner, started 2 weeks ago, my 1st finger actually started hurting and getting numb because I push the string down. You’ve answered my question. 😊😊👍👍👍👍

[@gohryu2004]

So glad I could help! All the best in your journey to learn this noble instrument!

[@sadhbhdelahunt]

That's great, thanks.

[@lesleynelson7708]

I will definitely try that. I always thought I had To press hard like on the guitar

[@shawnchristopherwhite3271]

I never use finger or bow pressure! I still get a full sound in very long bows or doyble stops etc. I never followed my various teachers' advice - the pressure sound was horrible and unmusical. Stability of the stopped note is paramount, not pressure - I bow just as mych with myleft hand as with my right.

[@JuanSB827]

i wish i had seen this video when i started to learn violin a bit ago. I adquired RSI/Tendonitis from trying to press the stings all the way down, especially fourth finger :(

[@gohryu2004]

That sounds really painful. My sister developed tendinitis and Reflex Sympathetic Distrophy Syndrome also from pressing too hard. I hope that one day, you'll be able to recover enough to play again. If you'd like me to cover some ways to play that might help you recover while still improving on violin technique, please let me know. Big hopes and best wishes.

[@JuanSB827]

@@gohryu2004 Thank you :). If you can cover those topics in a future video, that would be really nice and beneficial for those of us recovering from injury. Hope your sister recovers as well :)

[@georgelgrama5943]

Hello, in the position of 1, I can catch the notes C and G with the 3rd finger

[@stacietyson8713]

Oh my gosh, THANK YOU!

[@gohryu2004]

If this helped you in any way, then you are very welcome. Cheers and best wishes to you.

[@leif1075]

@@gohryu2004 When you say at 3:50 do you mean you are literally pushing the string across the fingerboard instead of pushing on the string straight down??

[@gohryu2004]

@@leif1075 by angling the hand via the elbow, our fingers are actually going straight down with gravity. Because the violin is at an angle on our shoulder, this may look like our finger is going across the fingerboard, but it actually almost perfectly vertical to follow gravity. Great question!

[@leif1075]

@@gohryu2004 What tips do you have when you have to play using the same finger teo consecutive notes on two different strings but with the same finger?? Is this even possible without stopiing after the first note ....do you know what I mean?? And how can I PLEASE PLEASE learn vibrato and improve exact intonation faster and easily and prevent knocking doing vibrato..IM TIRED of being FRUSTRATED AND ANGRY and am about to BURN THIS DAMN VIOLIN to the ground..hope you can help..

[@gohryu2004]

@@leif1075 your frustrations are shared by violinists worldwide. Regarding the question on consecutive notes, I'm not quite sure what you mean. Is it possible for you to send a video question on either fb or even here in the comments? As far as vibrato, it depends on what type of vibrato you plan to use. If one type of vibrato isn't working for after exhausting all possibilities, try a different style of vibrato. For example, if arm vibrato is escaping you after 6 months to a year of trying different exercises and methods of arm vibrato, try wrist vibrato to get the concept in your muscle memory and then come back to arm vibrato later. Regarding intonation... That is a tough one. It helps to have a teacher. However, short of a third party to help you listen, the way I fix my intonation is by re ording myself playing a short passage. Then I play back the recording and circle every note I don't like. I've actually had times where I circle the entire passage because my ear hears the whole thing as garbage. If that happens, I listen to my recording a few more times and pick out the notes that are going out of tune due to shifting or hand frame problems first. Once I solve those, then I solve all notes related to double stop and triple stop issues. And I go down the line to more and more detailed issues until I've solved every note in the passage. Once that is done, then I practice slowly until the solutions are locked into my muscle memory. To finish it off, I record myself again and make notes on things that went better, things that went worse (it happens), and things that are new problems that we have to fix (this happens more than I care to admit.) When practicing by re ording yourself, remember, start with small and short passages to help you hone your critical listening and problem solving skills first. Also, and equally important, the phrase I use with my students is "be mean when you mark the page and both kind and patient when you practice." This will help solutions come faster and reduce tension related injuries. I hope this helps! Please feel free to keep the questions coming!

[@kylebaguan4337]

Thank you for this video!

[@gohryu2004]

You're very welcome! I hope you find some useful info somewhere in my channel. Cheers and best wishes!

[@road2acoustic99]

Thanks a lot testosteroned dude : - D That's very useful 👍😊

[@tedviolafire]

What I point out to my students is that the Chinese violin, the erhu, has no fingerboard at all.

[@JustFiddler]

erhu more difficult than violin😊

[@joewhitcombe1365]

What is the black rod doing in the frame all the time..? Otherwise I like your tone .

[@gohryu2004]

I think that's the small music stand we had holding up the second phone camera. Our bad!

[@kehwa]

Can you please clarify what you mean by "wrist incorrect" versus "wrist correct?"

[@gohryu2004]

Wrist correct is moving the wrist into a supported wrist position similar to what we would do for the bow or for playing the piano. You'll know you have it right when you can maintain the same wrist position on 1st position all the way to the top of the fingerboard and back without changing the wrist position. Another way to find it is to try to demo I shared in this video where a harmonic will become a solid note without additional finger pressure. Best wishes to you!

[@kehwa]

@@gohryu2004 TBH I agree with you, but it it really has more to do with your second point. The angle of the wrist/elbow should always be the same regardless of position, which should optimize finger pressure and lessen the need to tense the left arm, hand and fingers. At this point, finger pressure is a non-issue for my students.

[@gohryu2004]

@@kehwa correct, but because every student is different, I go further in depth into the issue because some students require that amount of understanding if not more from the teacher. I've actually had to correct issues related to this in new freshman from many different teachers before. But yes, supported wrist is definitely a huge and very important point. Proper hook shape of fingers helps, as does weight awareness in the elbow, freedom of shoulder, etc. Cheers and best wishes!

[@RichardGraham-l6f]

Wow! Where did this presenter learn his Vocal Fry? - almost a grunt!

[@jaiv2001]

Thanks for the video. How does this apply to vibrato? Do you need to press down to the fingerboard to anchor the finger while vibrating?

[@gohryu2004]

Vibrato is a different function depending on the type of Vibrato which one is applying. Wrist Vibrato begins with an impulse from the inside of the forearm. Arm Vibrato is generated from the shoulder and back necessitating a loose and flexible joint at the base of the thumb. There is also a combination Vibrato combining wrist and arm. None of these require finger pressure into the fingerboard to perform or sustain. There are, of course, other types of Vibrato, but almost none of them that I am aware of require finger pressure. So no, you should not need to press down to the fingerboard to anchor the finger for Vibrato unless you are doing the type of Vibrato I demonstrated near the end of the video that is only used for certain specific colors such as some parts of the violin solo from the Swan. That's one of the few times that we press the finger to the fingerboard. There are so many wonderful and neat things we can do on the violin to change the types of sounds and we should always explore as much as possible. Cheers in your journey and all the best. I hope this helps.

[@jaiv2001]

Ok yes that helps! But, I tested the amount of pressure needed to produce a good sound on my strings and my strings goes down far before that happens. I’m using dominant strings and although I’m a beginner, I have a violin that would be suitable for live performances I’m sure. It’s a handmade violin from the 1800s with one fine tuner on the e string. Does this mean my strings are too high to start with? FYI my teacher does wrist vibrato but I practice arm vibrato on my own as well because I feel both have their place and I would like to be versatile!

[@gohryu2004]

@@jaiv2001 I can't intelligently answer about whether your strings are too high or not. A qualified luthiee could definitely tell you though. That's who I go to. However, whether the strings are too high or not does not significantly affect the amount of pressure needed to stop the string. As I had said in the video, one will need to experiment with wrist position until the bone angles alone line up correctly for you at which time the string will stop with almost exactly the same amount of pressure as it takes to make a natural harmonic. It sounds like you have a nice violin and a passionate teacher. Please remember that if anything I say here is contrary to what your teacher is telling you, please ignore me and listen to your teacher. I hope this helps and please feel free to ask any questions you might have as the violin is a craft of endless learning for all of us!

[@jaiv2001]

@@gohryu2004 ok makes sense! I have had it adjusted by a luthier when I first got it. I will play around with the wrist angle. I have small hands and short fingers(5’5”) so I have a lot of adjusting I have to figure out anyway lol! I’m open to others opinions on technique bc I don’t think violin is a one size fit all. So I’ve done things my teacher hasnt instructed me own based on videos of other people. I want to absorb what I can and use what works for me. All without disrespecting my teacher of course!

[@gohryu2004]

@@jaiv2001 the violin truly is a craft of endless exploration. I wish you the best in your journey. Please feel free to ask any further questions at any time. Small hands present other challenges in violin playing, but they are by no means a debilitating handicap either. Cheers!

[@lawrence18uk]

You'll need more pressure for pizzicato, and even more if you want that pizz note to ring on...

[@gohryu2004]

Left hand pizzicato is covered in other videos where I cover their use in the 24 Paganini Caprices and the Ernst Last Rose of Summer, Der Erlkonig, and others. After you watch those videos, should you still have questions about finger pressure, please feel free to comment and let me know where I can help you out on that. This video is strictly for helping to find (as Nate Cole terms) it, " Minimum Viable Pressure," for regular stopping of the string. Cheers!

[@eriksatie7994]

When i try to play the la string,both mi and rè strings are played as well..becouse the la string is so close to both of them..can you please make a video on how to make the la sound only🙏sorry my vocabulary isn’t the best.

[@JustFiddler]

matur suksma

[@infinitepawer]

By the way it doesn't matter the 4th finger is straight instead of curve while pressing ?? Thanks first

[@gohryu2004]

Sorry if my video was unclear. I was simply trying to point out the importance of the wrist position. Regarding a straight or bent pinky, it depends on the individual. While it us generally agreed upon by violin pedagogy that the naturally curved pinky is a better way to go for a more efficient and effective transfer of weight to the string, some people's pinkies are too short or their hands too small to effectively do this. Therefore, the wrist becomes more important in those special situations. Also, I wanted to demonstrate that, with proper wrist positioning, limited finger pressure is necessary to stop the string. In general though, a naturally curved pinky is easier to consistently play in tune with less effort if your physique allows this. I hope this helps to answer your question. Cheers and best wishes!

[@infinitepawer]

@@gohryu2004 Even if i cut the first joint of my ring finger it still like 3mm longer than my pinky so i believe my pinky consider very short for violin playing and i had been wonder for a very long time if i should keep forcing my pinky to go curve but after a lot of practice i guess i am wasting my time. I had watched lot of professional violin playing videos these 2 weeks due to the virus lockdown & i found many of their pinky actually go straight instead of curve and i think i finally make a decision.

[@gohryu2004]

As my buddy in Texas says, "if it sounds good and feels good, it's right.". I'm glad you found your solution. I hope to one day see a video of you performing!

[@infinitepawer]

@@gohryu2004 Am sorry another question. Is it normal pinky get lock or increase tension if playing with 1st finger press down at the same time ?? I can do hammer & lift off with 2nd & 3rd finger while pressing the 1st finger but not 4th. Not sure it's cause by my pinky being too short or something. I can make a simply video to show you if it's better for you to understand my problem. Thanks first

[@gohryu2004]

@@infinitepawer, here are my thoughts on this having never seen you play yet: For people with shorter pinkies or smaller hands, I categorize them into 2 basic categories with many sub-levels - 1) those who can reach the basic hand frame with slight elbow adjustment for the pinky and 2) those who must do mini-shifts in order to reach the proper 4th finger placement. To know which one you are, try this: as you progress from 1st finger up to the pinky, slowly angle your elbow in as if shifting to give more support to the pink's potential reach. Practice this a few times and experiment with the amount with which you need to release your first and 2nd fingers to be able to comfortably reach the proper 4th finger placement. If you completely cannot reach the 4th finger placement with this basic set up fix, you fall into the 2nd category whereby you will need to do a mini-shift to reach the 4th finger placement. However, I'm curious if you've tried any finger stretching exercises? I do those a lot because I have naturally short fingers. If you're curious about these, let me know and I'll try to make a short tutorial on those. Please see if the above elbow positioning works for you or not. If it's confusing, let me know and I'll also make a short video for you on that. Cheers and best wishes!

[@gregorywise4647]

You have good information, but you need to wear a microphone so you can be heard. There is way too much background noise.

[@iKarla]

wish i've seen it befor get fingers injury

[@gohryu2004]

Oh no! What type of injury did you sustain?

[@mahsaamini1401]

🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@Yippee_Ki_Yay]

Thank you. Subscribed!

[@gohryu2004]

Thank you!

[@saberanouar]

❤❤

[@pathofthemayfly1232]

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@Mjc-ot7wl]

I tried this but it sounds like a crying goat 🥴

[@gohryu2004]

Try to make sure to keep a solid sound from the bow while experimenting with left hand changes. It's easier to analyse results if one keeps the opposing hand as a control. That being said, wrist positioning is really important to achieving a more effortless stopping of the string. I hope this helps!

[@MarshallTheArtist]

@@gohryu2004 I wish I knew what you meant by that. I don't know how to make it stop screeching

[@gohryu2004]

@@MarshallTheArtist you might need to slowly transition to a lighter touch. Try this as it works for some of my students: when playing on the A string, put your fingers between the A and D strings all the way down to the fingerboard so you still feel the physical pressure and positive grip of the fingertip. I actually mention this in one if my Paganini Caprice tutorials to aid in gaining better purchase for negotiating fingered octaves. Lean your fingers more to the A string as you play and observe the sound. At first you will need to lean a lot on them. After a while you'll be able to lean square between the A and D strings like you would if playing a 5th. Once you get used to that level of pressure, you'll soon notice that you no longer need to depress the string all the way to the fingerboard to stop it with a good tone. Once that happens, try to be very aware of the feeling in the first knuckles of your fingers next to your fingertips and keep them as loose as you can. That's where one of the important sensory parts of string sense comes from. Once you feel comfortable with loose knuckles, you can then try rotating your fingertips around the string and experimenting with wrist angles to maintain a solid tone. Coming from the angle of pressing harder and slowly lightening your touch might be easier for you than starting from the harmonic. I hope this helps!

[@stanleymancio9989]

sometimes i biit my pinky if im so pissed whahahahaha

[@GoblinGearRider]

I guess that doesn't work with cheap strings, I'm getting a better violin now

[@JustFiddler]

i can't buy expensive strings.....😢😢