SDTM Episode 66: EPIC This Or That? (Pinball Collection Battles)

[@mokthemagicman]

Zack. I lost faith you. You picked SW too? OMG. I must have fell into a different dimension timeline today.

[@FloydMaxwell]

Chuck's camera & screen layout, and lighting, for that recent tournament -- best I've ever seen..

[@rask4p]

Great episode guys! The perfect number of pins are 3. 3 plus all of your grail pins... so 3 in rotation and then every pin you want to die with.

[@TampaTec]

6:32 iron maiden pinball and Star wars premium by Stern are both awesome pins. I like the Star wars theme, toys/gimmicks, sounds are Epic. However Iron maiden has good music and 4 flipper combo loops are amazing so Im on the fence. Star trek premium by Stern is up there with those pins. I love ❤️ Warp loops...warp 1 2 3 4

[@foobeer]

Hell yeah...got me a shout out by my boys! Great show as always guys. SW rocks!

[@markhorsburgh]

Another great episode chaps and thanks for answering my question. Also a good bash at pronouncing my surname haha. I think if you can have a newer Stern or JJP with a solid rule set. A pin with a theme that you love and a older game with a quick blast feel to it. Then that is a great collection. I do see people with 6 Sterns in a row and think there's no variety there. I would also love a room full if I was rich but I honestly think I would play each one for 5mins and move on. At least if you are pumping hard earned cash into a machine, then you are getting the best out of it.

[@FloydMaxwell]

For the gameplay vs rules question, Black Knight personifies gameplay-only, whereas Hobbit or Houdini has little to no gameplay. I'd take Black Knight (and the cash) any day of the week.

[@chughes737]

Love your take on the SW Premium. Just got one myself and agree with your opinions 100%. Addicted to SDTM!! You guys are awesome

[@alanrobertson6389]

Each their own. Don't worry about what others think. Taste is personal. It blows my mind that you guys love Star Wars that much, and discount Maiden. But whatever you know.

[@SDTM]

Alan Robertson were not really discounting Maiden. It’s a fantastic pin but SW checks a few more boxes for us (Greg)

[@jeffclaybaugh9718]

Amen! Personally not to hot on Star Wars... when I play it all I see is another playfield with a fan layout, and code that focuses on multipliers for scoring. But as you said Alan, to each their own!

[@hectorcastrejon]

"In my younger years...." LMAO. Loved it

[@DSNadine]

For Ghostbusters: Loved the game when I had it but now that it's gone it's the only game I never ever want back because I'm totally fed up with it.

[@DerHackers]

Adding on to the "How many pins" question, what if you only had room for 1 pin? Would a system 11 be good enough or NEED a more modern pin with deeper rules? Then variations of that question: What if only 2, 3, 4, 5 pins: when would you mix 8n older pins? What # of pins in collection/mix of old and new? I only have 1 system 11 and very shallow rules. Owned it for over 15 years. It gets boring for me if I play by myself, but kids and guests love it. Easy to explain the rules. Great for playing quick games with a few people each round.

[@FloydMaxwell]

Perfect # of pins in a collection -- three. More and you don't play each enough. Less and you pine for other pins. With three, when you start lusting for other pins, sell one you have. Three is the most balanced.

[@hectorcastrejon]

Have 12, want 15 hehe

[@mancavemoviemadness7464]

222 people have watched this video while at work so far today, including me. Love it!

[@SDTM]

Mancave Movie Madness hahaha that’s what us enthusiasts do best. Wish it was 1000

[@FloydMaxwell]

LotR (+ the cash) over the Hobbit. LotR is like a classic Shelby Mustang, where Hobbit is like a V12 E-Type Jaguar -- sounds great, but try and keep that Jag running.

[@FloydMaxwell]

Paragon always seems asthmatic -- you have little control of it.

[@imagamejunky4652]

You guys hit the nail on the head with SW vs IMDN. I agree on all points. Except you act surprised that you picked SW. Nothing surprising there guys. SW is just better!

[@SDTM]

fish n pinball it does go against the grain a bit but hey that’s pinball

[@henryk123]

48:25 'oh snap!' 48:32 'OOOOH SNAP!!'

[@ealadubh4800]

Skinny-ass pizza is like cutting the crusts off the bread and then throwing the bread away. Deep dish forever.

[@SDTM]

Eala Dubh crust is the best part of the bread

[@henryk123]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN 'JUST CHILLY'?!?!?!? Btw I feel that soon you will be discussing 'boxers or briefs'. ;) Still love you guys.

[@SDTM]

henryk123 hey!!! Not a bad idea thanks

[@FloydMaxwell]

Xenon over 8-ball. I've never met a pool pin I liked. Xenon is iconic (if a little lackluster in the game play dept.)

[@DontPanicFlip]

I'm happy you guys have finally jumped onto the SW is a good game bandwagon. Although I've got to side with Greg on SW Premium Vs. SW Pro. I've owned SW Premium (~6 months) and enjoyed the game immensely, but I sold it and will likely purchase the Pro in the near future because it is better IMHO for a few reasons: 1. It's a lot cheaper. Hyperloop multiball is NOT worth $1,700.00. 2. The hyperloop doesn't consistently work. My hyperloop kicked the ball out the top into the glass 1 out of every 5 times and prematurely dropped the ball out of the loop every few times. The ramp into the deathstar catches on the playfield and sticks occasionally which causes balls to get locked behind it during multiball. 3. The Pro is easier to score/play. And this is HUGE. You will score more points, progress further into modes, etc... The right ramp is easier to backhand. The Deathstar shot is soooooo much easier (no ramp to go up). 4. For Operators... the Pro has less moving parts and ultimately will require less repair work long-term. It's a better financial decision for operators. This means if you play on location, in a league, or in a tournament, it will likely be a Pro and the differences between them are big enough to justify practicing on the version you're going to play. 5. The exploding Deathstar isn't even worth talking about. The awesome feeling is in the videos played when everyone cheers, the exploding Deathstar is kind of cheap. And Greg... great job beating Zach to Jedi multiball!! The video was awesome. Your excitement at getting there and beating it made it fun to watch a few times ;-)

[@SDTM]

Don't Panic Flip all of this is blasphemy!!! Haha (zach)

[@FloydMaxwell]

Exchange Demo Man with Jurassic Park. Then, six months from now exchange back.

[@hectorcastrejon]

Theater of Magic (amazing example of it, mods, topper, all gold, etc) or Star Wars Premium?

[@mokthemagicman]

15 minutes in and I don't know if I can finish this episode..... My head is exploding.....

[@SDTM]

mokthemagicman we know you can’t turn us off Mok!!

[@mokthemagicman]

You're right. I can't.... Even when you're wrong lol. ;)

[@hypnotank]

Greg is correct - Malnatis is the best but you need to order it with butter crust, and if you're taking out - get it half baked and finish it in the oven at home. Zach, I'm honestly surprised you seemed so pained to choose between DM and JD and would rather have neither. DM is pretty fun but JD is the best pin out there for the money outside of Shadow imo. To each their own and that's what makes the discussions great, but I'd take a JD or DM over anything Stern has put out in years.

[@SDTM]

hypnotank dang looks like Malnatis is the king of Chi pizza

[@FloydMaxwell]

Theater of magic over the other two, mainly because I hate randomizers, and the other two have those in spades. That spinning lamp thing ruins AN, and CV has that very nasty ball thing on the left side. Get rid of randomizers from games!

[@chriswhitey1978]

I may finally be sold on the SW Premium. Only problem is what to sell to make room :(

[@FloydMaxwell]

I'll go for Centaur (and drops) over Fathom (and orbits)

[@kirby695]

Great video guys!

[@SDTM]

kirby695 you the man Kirbs

[@supersnappahead]

To be honest, Iron Maiden is the first pin I've played that felt cheap. I can't put my finger on it, but it doesn't feel like it's well made or has a nice level of quality to it's build. Maybe it's the plastic standees instead of toys or the spotty sound. Maybe it's the crappy target on the wall...I'm not sure, but when I play Maiden and then move to any other pin, I feel a difference in quality. It feels generic in a way that other pins don't. I love Maiden music. Grew up as a big fan and the shots are great, but I don't like the pin as much as I thought I would. I don't like SW though haha.

[@SDTM]

supersnappahead love the different perspective

[@OnTheSnap1]

It’s just very light feeling. Throw a transformer in it and suddenly it feels as heavy as a JJP

[@supersnappahead]

That could be it. Still very fun no matter what.

[@OnTheSnap1]

supersnappahead I’ve found nudging and manipulating the ball on my premium to be quite different because of how light it is. I threw in some weight in the cabinet to experiment and sure enough it started to feel “solid”. So there is that option. The spike2 system, integrated power supply and lack of toys on imdn really make it light. I have a DILE and it has a 50lb transformer in it. It’s super heavy.

[@supersnappahead]

That would make a lot of sense. I can definitely nudge better in IM than most machines. I might be noticing that subconsciously and thinking it "feels" different. Congrats on the pins!

[@keithciaccio7987]

Pirates of the Caribbean LE 9500 bucks... LOL..My how things have changed

[@henryk123]

57:14 Greg... you are dead to me:( Zach: fist bump. You need to try real italian pizza at some point. Its not a dish its an experience.

[@SDTM]

henryk123 preach! Welcome to the club. (Zach)

[@markhayes7147]

I know the feeling, you put two pins together and they breed next you've got 5 and running out of room. Love my Star Wars LE I'll never sell it because I believe it will be a collectable long term. Great show guys I always find it entertaining and enjoyable thanks for your efforts.👍

[@SDTM]

mark hayes great to hear! Thanks mark

[@skippychurch2965]

Southpark vs Austin powers is like saying "constipation vs diharea"

[@SDTM]

Skippy Church ahhh poor SP and AP. I’ll buy them if no one wants them (zach)

[@DoktorRossie]

thanks for the love for the Hobbit & POTC hehe :D

[@Colin-bg5qr]

This or that: Houdini vs Hobbit, WOZ vs Iron Maiden

[@FloydMaxwell]

Gun 'n Roses feels more modern, and more balanced than Tommy.

[@TMFDeej]

This or That: Black Rose & The Getaway OR a new Stern Pro like Deadpool or GOTG. I was faced with this decision recently - Knapp

[@turbografx7]

Lou Malnati's is the best, totally agree! Awesome vid guys!

[@SDTM]

turbografx7 uh oh one for Malnatis

[@FloydMaxwell]

Batman 66 -- great playability, poorly lit playfield. Good candidate for mods...

[@skippychurch2965]

Oh my gosh have I got a good "this or that!!!" Who sells pins faster? Waspinator or Zach?

[@SDTM]

Skippy Church hardy har har

[@skippychurch2965]

Straight Down The Middle: a pinball show I honestly wasn't being funny!!

[@FloydMaxwell]

Tron >> Metallica. Clean, minimalist vs cluttered mess, and Tron theme whoops most music pins. Yet I might take Iron Maiden over Tron, due to richer game play and modes.

[@Logan912]

That’s my thing with any music game. Even if I love the band like AC/DC, Metallica, KISS (Stern), RUSH, Led Zeppelin, and GnR and if the rules are great, there’s still the issue of music eventually getting old which is not only an issue with making the games repetitive but it also makes me sick of those songs outside of the games.

[@FloydMaxwell]

@@Logan912 Yup, whereas the music from the Dark Knight never gets old.

[@ealadubh4800]

Paragon and Future Spa are actually very different to play. Future Spa is the better shooter, Paragon has more to do. I have a Future Spa but would happily take a Paragon, even though I already have a Harlem Globetrotters which is the closest standard-body to it.

[@FloydMaxwell]

Flow is one of the most important things in a pinball game, so I'd go for Iron Maiden over Star Wars. But that is based on Star Wars Pro...

[@SDTM]

Floyd Maxwell Star Wars is a flow monster!

[@FloydMaxwell]

SW doesn't feel balanced to me -- some upper shots are easy, others not. And the lower playfield is cramped and too random. Then there are the weird modes. It looks pretty, I won a bunch of games on it, and that is about it. For me...much respect to you guys -- another great show.

[@chrismeder2376]

I'm from German descent, from Ohio, and my mom put spaghetti noodles in the chili as well. Maybe it is a German thing.

[@SDTM]

Chris Meder yeayyahh and how good was her chili?

[@chrismeder2376]

Terrific. She passed quite a few years ago and have not had chili like it since.

[@SDTM]

Chris Meder absolutely good memory

[@FloydMaxwell]

GB -- unified. SW -- hodge podge.

[@kevinpinball]

Zack: You like Steve Ritchie games yet you still don't like Star Trek TNG? Come on! It's got a great left loop to Delta Quadrant ramp! So fun to hit! With 11,728 units sold, it was the last pinball machine to sell in the 5-digits.

[@SDTM]

Kevin Peterson Steve Ritchie games need to be standard body to stay true to his layout genius

[@Logan912]

@@SDTM I love the theme integration in TNG, but Stern Star Trek takes everything wrong with TNG’s gameplay and improves it imo.

[@chriswoodard8665]

Just ordered a SW Premium. Hope it's as good as you guys say it is! :)

[@SDTM]

Chris Woodard good call buddy

[@SDTM]

Yeah I really think you will like it. Fast pace but I feel it’s controlled. Great nudging pin! (Greg)

[@chriswoodard8665]

I got rid of a Metallica Pro in order to get it.

[@DSNadine]

So a 100% honest This or That: Beloved or new shiny thing? (Background: Had to sell my Star Trek. Kind of the best game ever in my opinion. Can buy a new Star Trek Vault or used one now... or a Deadpool, wich is new and shiny but I know nothing about. So to make ist easier it's Star Trek (Pro/ Prem) vs. Deadpool (Pro) but basically it's a question of principle.) - Oh and TMNT or a bag of food from the dumpster. ;)

[@SDTM]

DSNadine I like it!

[@kennytaylor5849]

TOM or Houdini ?

[@mokthemagicman]

OMG Greg I would take an Iron Maiden Pro over a Star Wars Premium. I'm a Star Wars fan but that pin just freaking sucks. The toys are lame on it too. Just terrible. One of my biggest disappointments from Stern. Sorry Greg, but you can't talk your way out of this one. :)

[@SDTM]

mokthemagicman don’t lose faith in us. Star Wars is a fun great shooting machine but yes does not do justice to the license

[@joshuaburton154]

chili has to have noodles in it. they soak in the flavor and make it feed more kids. when i get chili without noodles in it i feel ripped off. indiana country chili is the best we use mac noodles in northern indiana

[@SDTM]

Joshua Burton that’s what I’m talking about!

[@adams2]

I did end up buying a low play LOTR (for 5) close by and not GOT. Stop making me want to buy a Star Wars. I still have my JJPOTC pre-order and have already bought 4 pins this year and only sold 1.

[@SDTM]

Adam Streeter you’ll be super happy with JJP potc I’m jealous

[@DSNadine]

Don't feed the troll! ;) - I'm only permanently banned on the podcast sub forum for mentioning Kaneda 3 times in a row (not trolling at all but projecting how they could at least stop 'discussion' aka yelling at each other via pinside threads and podcast). So for my next this or that: TMNT or a bag of food from the dumpster? ;) -> (Bought a TMNT and sold it insanely fast because it got old after 15 minutes. :D Real Question incoming later on. ;) )

[@SDTM]

DSNadine hahaha

[@FloydMaxwell]

GoT > LotR. Lord of the Rings is too much of the same, a serious grind of a game, one of the most stingy on points. GoT is an incredibly deep, diverse pin -- you can play it 10 different ways.