Cerebus: Mothers & Daughters (Issues 151-200)

[@rlextheroboy]

A fine ending to a really important work of comics criticism. Threading the needle of what Cerebus meant vs what it means today was a huge challenge and I think you handled it fairly, critically, and entertainingly.

[@StrangeBrainParts]

I appreciate you saying so. Thank you.

[@jordanl-r2u]

Speaking personally, I much preferred your old intro music. It set such a great atmosphere that I think was more in line with your thoughtful and well-researched content.

[@StrangeBrainParts]

So noted. I need to change things every now and again. I heard that intro so many times it was getting to me. So, I reverted to an older one. :)

[@jordanl-r2u]

@@StrangeBrainParts Whatever you need to do. Just wanted to share my opinion. Love your stuff!

[@jikorijo4516]

​@@StrangeBrainPartsI miss the old "Down on Mainstreet-eqse" theme music, but it's cool to change things up. :)

[@StrangeBrainParts]

Hey, comments like these are always helpful for me to evaluate choices. So, thanks for letting me know.

[@carloscrecelius9597]

One more vote for the old music. I preferred the more somber tone, the new music seems a bit frivolous for my taste.

[@buckysinister]

I've always liked the idea of ending the series a few pages shy of the ending of Melmoth: Cerebus sits, in a near-catatonic state, eating raw potatoes and clutching Jaka's doll to his chest. And he remains there for the rest of his miserable life. It does leave a lot of dangling threads, but... That's kind of why I like it. The world keeps moving, but Cerebus just... stops. His time on the world stage is done, and everything goes back to moving on just like it did before he entered the scene. It seems a fitting ending to me. Plus, it has the bonus of pretending that READS doesn't exist...

[@contempocomics]

It's been so long since reading Cerebus for me that I had forgotten how incredible that black & white artwork by both these dudes could be. Amazing synthesis of talent and craft. Great choice of images in this video to highlight why this comic was so well-regarded.

[@StrangeBrainParts]

Thank you. I do admit I tried to find the most compelling images to highlight both of their talent.

[@lucassiccardi8764]

​@@StrangeBrainParts "Admit"? Why would you "admit" that, instead of being proud of it? Because you made this series of videos for your agenda, not to objectively analyze a work of art. And by your agenda, it gets as clear as day that you're a vermin.

[@KingfisherTalkingPictures]

This is a wonderful series, where I find most of my feelings expressed. I can’t tell you how much I loved Cerebus. Then bought it out of loyalty, until Reads. I pushed through the garbage, and when Cerebus came back from space I was done. Every month I saw it there, and I avoided it like the plague.

[@zdweezil]

I watch every new video you produce and hit the "like" button. Always like putting "play all" on your videos when winding down from work. Good stuff, keep it up, need good news and information instead of stuff on tv or whatever is charting on youtube at the time.

[@colinynwa]

Thank you. You coverage of Cerebus is what got me to check out your channel and has continued to an absolute highlight alongside so many highlights. If it ends here - which personnally I think it should as you've said all I see to say about the final 100 issues ... but then you are clearly smarter than me and so may well find some great insights who knows. Either way your coverage of the series, all 2 hours or whatever its become, holds up as a brilliant analyse and testament for one of the most important comics, for all the right and wrong reasons out there. Brilliant stuff and again thank you. Now onto the next thing...

[@user-rc3cm1zv4j]

That's why I prefer you over other comic books channels like matttttt. You're not exactly tugging on my heart string for cheap emotional climax. You present it as it is.

[@AilexSupergenius]

Glad you continued this review! Can you direct which episode of Living the Line discusses Sim?

[@macsnafu]

I bought every issue of Cerebus all the way up to #300, just for the sake of completeness. It was a significant part of my life, once a month, for years, even after I had stopped buying most other comic books regularly. Usagi Yojimbo was just about the only other comic I kept up with regularly, although I did like and follow James Robinson's Starman run for a long time, too. But honestly, the first 25-50 issues are the most fun. If you read comics for fun, there's little point in going beyond 50, or I guess #51 actually. And you might not want to go past #25! I can't completely dismiss the entire 'saga' of Cerebus and pretend it didn't happen, and I really don't want to. It was an important step not only for independent comics, but personal and artistic expression in comics in general. That can't be denied, no matter how much one might disagree with Dave Sim's viewpoint (or agree for that matter). Real world politics intruding in the most unlikely of places! Anyone who wasn't simply baffled and confused by it all undoubtedly found cultural reinforcement or punishment in it, for the masochists among us. But I certainly prefer to remember the fun comics more than the rest of it. Cerebus started out as a fun, Barry Smith-style Conan parody, and those early issues remain great comics.

[@carloscrecelius9597]

Theres a fine line between genius and crackpot. Sim is a perfect example of this.

[@NelsonStJames]

Actually there are quite a few big names in the comics industry that are very good examples of that idea.

[@carloscrecelius9597]

@@NelsonStJames Moore, Morrison, and Sim are my top 3, and Ditko could easily be added to the list.

[@yggdrasil2]

Insane enough to come up with ideas like these, genius enough to be able to depict them.

[@StruggleoftheOutsider]

I'd argue that no great artist Can be a conformist or truly concerned with appealing to popular consensus. Great art, by it's nature, is transgressive & transcendent.

[@joedent3323]

Is being sexist "Crackpot"?

[@carlgibson285]

The best thing I can say about the final 100 issues of Cerebus is that they're very pretty to look at with some great art and lettering. I do admire Sim for actually making it to 300 issues though.

[@UltraKlutzJeff]

Great wrap-up, thank you! I really worshipped this series up to the end of Church and State, but would leave and return to buying the periodicals many times after that. I ultimately did not buy any after #200. It was difficult to even absorb such a big story so scattered over time, so I bought the complete series in the Cerebus Downloads format (pdfs) a few years ago so I could finally read it all in a binge. It really helped to make more sense of it, and many of the volumes are remastered and look fantastic. That being the story up to #200 anyway. The rest I found perplexing and really it was out of compulsion to finish it, skipping many of the long text sections, but it was satisfying to finish it. I was aware you weren’t going to cover the rest on your channel, so glad you explained why here and gave a bit of a summary review within this final.

[@lucassiccardi8764]

The final part sure is "perplexing", but after all that's not even such a bad thing. It's good to read that "it was satisfying finishing it". If it wasn't for the politics, those final issues of Cerebus would be revered as absurd and incredibly sophisticated. Instead we get this kind of rubbish, propaganda videos like this...

[@leonidasnoble6939]

“These violent delights, have violent ends.” I don't know. The sad death of great potential is a story as compelling as it is depressing. It's the realization that as much as I wanted a new Elektra story, it would have been better if she had just remained dead. Somehow, what which follows, diminishes what was. Maybe its (GOT, Elektra, or Cerebus) greatest sin was that it didn't live up to our expectations. Maybe we’re the bad guys?

[@jessicaluchesi]

I do think there is such a thing as an imperfect masterpiece... and also something fumbling towards what could have been a perfect ending... and there's value on both. I personaly do not like to think in terms of geniuses and masterpieces... but people worth paying attention and works we should study, because sometimes the flaws are part of a framework capable of helping us grow. I feel there's some sad humanity here, like in Ditko. Thank you so much for the video and sharing your insight.

[@JeghedderThomas]

I would highly recommend up to, and including "High Society" - I did find "Church and State" started well enough, but became rather long in the tooth as it trundled along. I jumped off when that concluded simply because I was bored. I have, later in life, read Cerebus in its entirety, it was a slog, especially the latter half, Sim going slowly nuts was painful to watch.

[@maripeachfuzz]

just wanted to say that I love love love your stuff, man! I've been watching since I was 17(I'm gonna be 25 soon :0 ), and it's always been super fun to discover older comic book series/publishers/writers/artist through your vids. So keep up the great work!

[@puddocksclassroom7174]

It is a shame that you are not going to continue looking at the series. It was your earlier videos that got me to begin reading Cerebus, and I would like to thank you for that. This is a great piece of work in the medium of comics, and I will certainly continue to read it beyond issue 200.

[@bluespaceman7937]

Feel free, but the quality gap in terms of creative value is noticeable.

[@lucassiccardi8764]

Strange Brain Parts could never have commented on the last 100 issues. They're way too difficult. People like him are able to dismiss what they do not understand, we have already seen that. He hasn't understood a thing since Melmoth. How ridiculous his analyses would have become? He wouldn't even know how to summarize the action: he simply doesn't understand the implications of what is being told. Like 95% readers, I'm afraid.

[@KitchenSinkSoup]

@@lucassiccardi8764 We are simply not as smart as you, big brained one

[@RememberTheDead]

This was a wonderful journey! Glad you covered it.

[@StruggleoftheOutsider]

Dave still has a pretty enjoyable youtube channel.. His only regular participation with the public now. Mainly covers old trivia bout back in the day & occasional rerelease info.

[@HobbyistFreePress]

Love this long form deep-dive series!

[@unstopitable]

What a deep dive. Awesome.

[@macavitymacavity]

Well done! Thank you!

[@dhdusjdhsl5785]

dave WAS a genius

[@joedent3323]

When did he stop being a "Genuius"? #186? His last work "The Strange Death of Alex Raymond" is amazing.

[@urosvelickovic6311]

An amazing finish to one of the most polished deep-dives into a highly-controversial comic. Bravo to you sir!

[@StrangeBrainParts]

Thank you!

[@jimmygownley9573]

These are wonderful videos. Cerebus deserves the attention. While I totally get your reasons for stopping here, let me issue a friendly challenge! Do a video focusing on just issue 267 “If Five Bar Gate Be My Destiny.” I bet looking at just one issue will give you the opportunity to focus on HOW the comic works without having to discuss mountains of convoluted plot. The reason Cerebus should be studied is because Sim invented new ways to use the form almost every month. Any aspiring cartoonist should read 267. it’s worth more than two years of study at SVA. Thanks for the videos! Please feel free to ignore this challenge and continue with Immaculate consistency. Jimmy Gownley

[@johnboling7426]

Looking forward to seeing you cover other indie comics

[@alaenamcdonald1877]

Cerebus is one of those most infuriating literary journeys where the payoff ends up being nothing more than watching a talented artist masturbate on page for decades. There is no message in the end and you end up feeling drained you devoted that much of your life and time to such 💩.

[@jacobnaylor3377]

Really is a shame that Dave felt the need to put his most unpopular opinions in this story. It really should have more appeal than it does.

[@troycruikshank1027]

I plan on reading Cerebus. Then I can see what all the fuss is about.

[@lucassiccardi8764]

Please do. Don't believe in this ridiculous propaganda...

[@suditeh]

It saddens me a lot that this will be the last one, but I can understand you. ...UNLESS this is you imitating Dave saying he would end Cerebus at 200, and we will have Guys a copuple of months from now!

[@StrangeBrainParts]

/me winks.

[@tf2godz]

Cerebus is going to be public domin when Dave Sim dies. I think there is a pretty big guarantee a lot of fan continuations are going to ignore everything after #200

[@joedent3323]

I imagine we will see very unsurprising takes, featuring Cerebus as an ardent Feminist.

[@lucassiccardi8764]

@@joedent3323 Yes. But what Sim did is here to stay. If humanity doesn't self destruct before that, Cerebus we'll be reappraised. Undoubtedly one of the great pieces of art of our times.

[@muriok2474]

its ashame if Sims views weren't so ridiculous, for a comic to go on as long as it did would be something I could respect and admire, I can't and won't support the man.

[@kasrasadrehashemi174]

Man i love this definitely going to read the frist couples cerebus books .

[@yggdrasil2]

Can you separate the art from the aardwark?

[@whyherewhynow7418]

A shame you won't be doing the rest of the issues, but I can completely understand why. They were, frankly, a slog to get through.

[@residentgrigo4701]

I fucking hate all of this and the other 100 issues border on unreadable but the art is sublime.

[@DamianMesser]

I regret adding the 70th like to this video.

[@StrangeBrainParts]

You can always click on the Like thumb again and that will remove it. Not that I want you to, but I don't want you regretting your choice, either.

[@DamianMesser]

@@StrangeBrainParts I'll stand by it. Sincerely given. No regrats, unlike Dave, I imagine.

[@parkerhaisha7254]

These videos are great. Are you a fan of the new52 Dial H run? Would love to hear your analysis on that series. Thank you!

[@pchelpesin]

I'm very love this comics❤

[@samwill7259]

Could have been one of the greatest independent comics in history Spoken of in the same halls as creators like Moore, Morrison and Gaiman ALL they had to do was turn out not to be a woman hating freakazoid

[@zacksav874]

Bruh no way, you’re not going to cover the last 100? I’m dying to know what happens, it really gets THAT bad?

[@tedmiller1376]

How can someone who runs around sans trousers possibly be male, never mind unisex? Where's he keeping all of the equipment? Well never mind. It's just a bizarre twist Sim threw in, one of oh so many. Yeah, I started reading when he was on the Moon being orated to by the Judge. Which was so bizarre I started looking up other issues and trade paperbacks. I was faithful until Jaka's story, when the book seemed to transform into a mess of illustrated prose with no apparent aim, and nothing to hold interest. Other readers complained, and Sim's response was that it was his book to do with as he wished. Hey, I get the whole "creative control" deal. No writer with a story to tell should be unduly influenced by what fans want. But this was beyond the pale. I dropped the book, same as I do any comic that falls dead last in my reading every week without fail. To find out after all these years that it was all just a rant actually makes sense. I've seen people do this on social media. Just not 30 pages at a time. Only one thing can make a person that crazy. Relationship issues. Strangely, though, that rant still fits into the life-of-Conan mold. In the end, Conan left Aquilonia behind to explore the continent rumored to exist beyond the Hyborian age's Westernmost shores. That was where he was left, to spend the last of his vigor in an unknown land of new adventures. Which meant that he left his Queen and his son behind on a whim. Went out for a ride and he just kept going. Cerebus had no queen, no kingdom. And settling down ended him. Which is probably what Conan wanted to avoid. Not worth reading. Everything that led up to that definitely is, however. Great stuff. It's too bad Sim didn't just devote a couple of those letters pages to his neverending rant, and stuck with the usual sequential storytelling for the main body of every issue. Instead, he couldn't stop declaring at the top of his voice what a ruin his love life had become. Which was not even a little funny.

[@joedent3323]

Its called "Donald Ducking-it".

[@tedmiller1376]

@@joedent3323 Huh. I'd've thought Porky Pig, myself. If I were a guy named Howard running for President, I might feel slighted.

[@allenrubinstein3696]

Pity, there's some amazing stuff in the last third of the book, even while it doesn't particularly add up to a satisfying whole. I'm not sorry I read them, disagree with their perspective almost entirely and still have them in my closet. The Ernest Hemingway and F. Scott Fitzgerald sequences specifically are masterful IMO and well worth covering, but yes, much of what comes after them is egregiously awful on multiple levels. I just think there's much to be gained picking apart bad work as well as good, and plenty of material in the first 200 issues are just as flawed or outright bad. I remember a critic in The Comics Journal commenting that one of the problems taking in Cerebus is the insistence that it be accepted as a singular piece of work, instead of the mountainous, jangly pile of stuff it really is. Mostly, I was interested in hearing your take on Guys. What a strange, rambling structure that book had. It make Rick's Story look downright coherent by comparison. I thought that Rick's and Cerebus' maturation process that Sim put them through were both compelling (if you can ignore where they're laced with Sim's toxic female-hating) and got the book to the point of what Sim ultimately wanted to portray - a Bizarro World, right wing warning of how our world will devolve if we don't all listen to the bleatings of Rupert Murdoch's media empire.

[@joedent3323]

Fox as the root of all evil?

[@lucassiccardi8764]

You're too good on Strange Brain Parts. What could he say about Guys, or about the splendid Going Home, you mentioned, dealing with Fitzgerald and Hemingway in that incredibly sophisticated manner? That stuff is way too intellectual for the guy. He would just have said "nothing happens for three hundred pages" or something like that. He didn't get anything about Melmoth or Reads, how could he appreciate the marvels of Rick's Story, or those of Latter Days? We're dealing with a pretentious nerd brat who has no idea of what true art is.

[@the_exegete]

@@lucassiccardi8764 yeah man it's other people who are pretentious

[@lucassiccardi8764]

@@the_exegete To be pretentious one has to fake it. If one has substance, if one has the style it takes, that's not pretentiousness. Ask me anything, please, go ahead.

[@the_exegete]

@@lucassiccardi8764 Ok. Do you believe that women are not human but instead soul-devouring voids who feed on the pure light of noble men?

[@78deathface]

I’ll always love Cerebus for what it was when I first started reading it in the late 80s as a kid, but I definitely kind of lost interest after Jaka’s Story

[@Jameswindsorsmith]

Boobah appears during "guys"

[@lucassiccardi8764]

And Cirin during Rick's Story. And her search for Aardvark reproduction comes to fruition in the very last issues...

[@Jameswindsorsmith]

@@lucassiccardi8764 "oh...God..."

[@lucassiccardi8764]

@@Jameswindsorsmith "Mother lied to you, my name means Living Symbol". Etc. What a devastating climax...

[@Jameswindsorsmith]

@@lucassiccardi8764 I was blown away, it says so much that you can philosophically disagree with the storyteller yet marvel at how they tell the story!

[@lucassiccardi8764]

@@Jameswindsorsmith Yes. I cannot say that I like the last 100 issues as much as the first 200, yet I wouldn't change anything. They are the strangest part of the story and Sim gets more original than ever. He brings about events in the least expected way and creates ever-surprising real artistic gems. What about that part in Latter Days when everything is dark and you just infer Cerebus' movements from the shape of the black panels? Or that part in Going Home when Cerebus and Jaka get caught in the snowstorm and nearly die of hunger? Or when Jaka first finds herself thinking about betraying Cerebus speaking to the Cirinists? It's so enjoyable and emotional...

[@duhdeedee]

Without reading the last 100 issues I skipped to the end of Going Home and thought the situation was contrived (Cerebus's parents weren't mentioned for like the whole damn series) plus Jaka was constructed to be an idiot for Cerebus even though when arrested by the Cirinists she was astute enough to claim diplomatic immunity.

[@lucassiccardi8764]

Cerebus' putative parents were mentioned in the comics, like his formative years with that wizard, I don't remember his name now. There was even a miniseries about the young Cerebus (the first collaboration with Gerhard, I think). You're just another sycophant. Sycophant of a sycophant nerd of a sycophant.

[@3L_B4R7O]

I've always found the comic series very interesting and would love to read it myself, but the political opinions that the writer has put into it mean I'd rather not delve into it. And before anyone says, I like Frank Miller's work, even if I roll my eyes at some of his stuff.

[@BainesMkII]

Mothers & Daughters killed Cerebus for me. Even the earlier half was weak, a plodding and largely meaningless mess with Sims just changing and making up stuff to ramble his decreasingly secret message. Then you hit Reads, where Sims pretty much drops even the pretense of a comic and just starts rambling directly to the reader. I dipped back later and it was even worse (such as the Jaka finale.)

[@HeyImRosko]

I wish you'd go ahead and review the last 100 issues anyways.

[@joedent3323]

Its disappointing. The coverage is incomplete, which is a crime, in a series so exacting and complete. Even a perfunctory last video, named for the the final 100 issues, explaining why you werent going to explain the last issues, would be more complete. An afterthought as a footnote to the video of the penultimate issues doesnt cut it.

[@lucassiccardi8764]

That's the least you could say man. This channel is disgusting.

[@tompuce84]

[@Chompingbits]

Can't wait for some hack to announce a Cerebus film saga as their answer to the woke MCU.

[@joedent3323]

Cerebus has a 3D film. Been out for years. Search it on here.

[@lucassiccardi8764]

Utterly ridiculous. This final instalment is the most outrageous. Going Home is a masterwork. Jaka is never as real as in that phonebook. And the literary investigations alone would deserve a Pulitzer. And the formal experimentation on that one... Woah. And what about the linguistic experimentation with gender in the Swahili bits? Yes, for those who haven't read it, there are bits in Swahili in Going Home. Probably the most refined meditation on literature you're gonna find south of Northrop Frye. Speaking of linguistic experimentation, what about Guys? The most (the only?) Joycean comic book in history? And the greatest use of lettering in comic history? And what about Rick's Story? Simply the most beautiful drawings you'll ever find in a comic-book. And, by the way, Cirin returns there, just like during the grand finale, when her story arc gets resolution. Yes, the story arc about the reproduction of Aardvarks, that Strange Brain Parts says is not mentioned again after Minds while, in fact, it's what the ending revolves around. Speaking of the grand finale... How can Strange Brain Parts (who purportedly is a great appreciator of comics and art) simply skip that? Has he even read it?! I think Strange Brain Parts has his wallet for one cerebral hemisphere, and his dick for the other.

[@the_exegete]

People tend to not like slogging through bigoted screeds, no matter how literary or pretty they are. Cry more about it.

[@lucassiccardi8764]

​@@the_exegete This remark sounds ironic when it's coming from a guy who calls himself the "Exegete". And, by the way, I *did* actually cry quite a bit more than this; sadly, my more articulate comments get systematically canceled by the brave owner of this channel.

[@the_exegete]

@@lucassiccardi8764 Really unfair that you're not allowed to spread your deranged hatred of women on someone else's platform.

[@DrHackmoff]

I remove the author from the work in everything i consume , because you can never truly know the author except by "being friends with" or "living next door" etc and even then you know olny a facet of this person. Also i tend to drop out when a work becomes unpleasant, like the series LOST for example were i gladly watch season 1 and maybe 2 but instead of the other seasons i watch something else

[@rickytoddbotelho9555]

Sim is one of the greatest masters of the medium. Kept a handle on his legacy the way it should have been. Can't tell you I'm burned out on the Sim .😂❤❤❤❤

[@Thenadathor]

Your arguments for not continuing arent convincing.

[@ReflexVE]

They don't have to be, they are his position regardless of whether or not you are convinced.

[@TitularHeroine]

I mean.... You're free to buy issues 201-300 if your opinion is that firm against SBP's

[@jussts]

The only argument he needs is he doesn't want to.

[@joedent3323]

Its disappointing ; its incomplete, which is a crime, in a series so exacting and complete. Even a perfunctory last video, named for the the final 100 issues, explaining why you werent going to explain the last issues, would be more complete. An afterthought as a footnote to the video of the penultimate issues doesnt cut it.

[@ReflexVE]

@@joedent3323 I look forward to your effort to make such a video.

[@thealphaincel1619]

Feminism is garbage. But this is a case where Dave Sim should've kept it to himself or expressed it in a different story. It becomes jarring.

[@TitularHeroine]

What type of feminism and by what author, though? That's surely not an across the board generalization??

[@the_exegete]

The existence of people who see woman not as humans but as soul-sucking monsters kinda proves the need for feminism.