ATOLL: The Soviet Sidewinder Is More Interesting Than You Might Think

Ask most aviation enthusiasts about the Soviet Atoll missile and they’ll likely tell you the same things. It is a copy of the AIM-9B Sidewinder. Most of us also know that the original missile that was copied by the Soviets was fired by a Taiwanese F-86 Sabre in the Taiwan Straits. It hit the MiG-17 it was targeting, but the warhead failed to detonate.
These things are both true. But there’s more to the Atoll than just a story of fortunate acquisition and smart reverse engineering. Although it started as a very close copy of the Sidewinder, it was not exactly the same and, like the Sidewinder, it developed along its own path. Unlike the Sidewinder, that development path was terminated as the Soviet Union replaced it with an indigenous design to fit with other aspects of their tactical aviation concept.
I believe that understanding the Atoll is important if we’re to understand the history of air-to-air combat in the 1960s and 1970s. In this video, I explore its history, the myths of its origin and its legacy. I hope you enjoy it!

[@thegenericguy8309]

A dual feature of the first generation of ‘dogfight’ missiles - the R-60 and Magic I - would be cool to see. Great work as always

[@TyrannoJoris_Rex]

Also AIM-9G/H US Navy, AIM-9J USAF

[@radiofreemongoliaofficial]

@@TyrannoJoris_Rexvery different to magic and R60

[@TyrannoJoris_Rex]

@@radiofreemongoliaofficial In terms of being some of the first "dogfight" missiles in service?

[@radiofreemongoliaofficial]

@@TyrannoJoris_Rex yes, very different philosophy, SRAAMs are not necessarily all “dogfight” missiles

[@TyrannoJoris_Rex]

@@radiofreemongoliaofficial Thought a dogfight missile was just one with good agility such that it won't be defeated with hard maneuvers

[@Blakk69]

K-13 was the index of the r&d project ordered by the government, internal index of the project in the research "bureau" was Object 310, and the missile was adopted for service as R-3

[@BeKindToBirds]

Russia still names things similarly for similar reasons today.

[@anh413]

@@BeKindToBirds Kinda but I think a lot of countries both NATO and Warsaw Pacts actually did this. Since if I remembered correctly a lot of prototypes will see trials under names only to receive actually military designation like for example The Russian named a gun in testing A-545 then they will designated it under the name using GRAU code 6P67. Same as the US with XM-5 or XM-7. This is also the reason for so many M1 in WW2 I think.

[@Breakfast598]

It's crazy how much more advanced and capable missiles from the 70's and 80's are compared to the one from the vac tube era

[@noth606]

Yeap, but it's interesting how varied a blend of stuff is in use now, some things are essentially 70s stuff but remade with modern components at the very low end, then up to optical flow guided missiles at the weird top end, but all manner of radar and IR in between.

[@AdurianJ]

Yay you used my Wikipedia picture of Aiir to Air missiles for the Draken. Took it at the Missile museum in Sweden, they have a really good selection of RB04 missiles including development variants A and B

[@alancranford3398]

Two things about the Atol missile impressed me. The Chinese pilot's courage when a Sidewinder lodged in his Mig was one--that warhead was going to detonate at any moment. The fact that the USSR managed to reverse engineer the Sidewinder AIM-9B and produce a functioning copy in two years demonstrated technical competence. Air-to-air combat has evolved since the First World War, when pilots might exchange small-caliber pistol shots. During the Fifties the cannon proved to be "knife fighting distance" weaponry due to accuracy problems at long ranges and several cannon hits were needed to make an airplane stop flying. While the US Navy developed the Sidewinder in secret (secret from Navy brass!), US Air Force alternatives to machine guns or cannon included firing a slew of unguided air-to-air rockets at enemy bomber aircraft--or using the Genie unguided air-to-air rocket. The latter had a small fission warhead. The Atol missile was more effective, and at first a knock-off Sidewinder copy proved to be their most deadly air-to-air missile. As I said, the Atol was impressive, whether or not it was equal to the Sidewinder.

[@tunaconsuma]

I believe an atoll was fired in anger by soviet air forces when a Turkish RF-84 entered soviet airspace. A MiG-21 was vectored by gcs to intercept it. Both missiles were fired but missed as they were used outside the launch envelope. This led to a revision of the GCS system as they had no idea what the launch envelopes actually were for the intercepting migs, and set them up for impossible attacks.

[@youngbloodbear9662]

One small correction, not *all* the parts were interchangeable between aim-9B and k-13, unless you mean at the module level such as ‘guidance section’. Besides the particular electronic components, the main differences im aware of are the optical path having an additional lens in the support to the secondary mirror where the sidewinder has a flat plate, and in the servo a different support was used for the canards, a bearing in the soviet case and a fairly unique blade mechanism in the the US case which also housed the piezoelectric crystals that comprised the impact fuze

[@youngbloodbear9662]

I think the proximity fuzing is also different but i don’t have anything confirmed on that

[@jasperzanjani]

somebody arrest this man

[@youngbloodbear9662]

@@jasperzanjani haha studied missile guidance through college, I’ve actually got a K-13 seeker

[@landreauferris1215]

Something about that Mig 21 always brings that little boy joy/enthusiasm for jets and aviation in general.Great videos Sir;I thank you sincerely.

[@speedycpu]

If you don't already, you can fly a fully realistic version of the Mig-21Bis in DCS. Look up digital combat simulator, free to download. The Mig-21 costs a bit, but it's definitely worth it. F-4 is coming soon, can't wait to do F-4 vs Mig-21.

[@PotatoeJoe69]

It was a pretty craptastic plane. Despite what some games would have us believe the MiG-21 could not turn well at all. In fact, in hard turns, it became extremely unstable and had a bad habit of violently spiralling out of control -- and when it did this, it was entirely unrecoverable.

[@perfectcell1157]

​@@PotatoeJoe69never heard of this do you have the source of this information?

[@charlestaylor253]

​@@PotatoeJoe69 Utter 🐂💩.

[@palohagara105]

​@@perfectcell1157just use google. For example Czechslovakia pilots history, books. And crash statistics. Over 1/3 died, in no-war trainings only! Even radar on Migs was so dumb they often ended in CFIT :-(

[@miquelescribanoivars5049]

Remember to keep the jet steady while firing *at all* times

[@shaider1982]

Yup, this is the era where the missile may not know where it is.

[@RCAvhstape]

@@shaider1982 Heat seekers only need to know where the target is. By knowing where it isn't.

[@user-ir2fu4cx6p]

@@shaider1982 No, he didn't know where he isn't.

[@cascadianrangers728]

Roger that, 5x5, in the pipe now, fox 1, fox 2

[@geoffreyherrick298]

Remember, the missile knows where it is at all times.

[@alancranford3398]

I attended a Plane Talk at the Hill Aerospace Museum a decade ago. The guest speaker was a navigator on a C-124 Globemaster. One of his stories was a very secret 1958 flight to Taiwan with 100 Sidewinder missiles. During the Q&A portion of his presentation I suggested that he was involved in the first combat use of the Sidewinder missiles.

[@StrikeWyvern]

Loved this video, do you think you'll ever do one on the R-60 to R-73? Maybe even the other long range IR missiles like the R-24T and R-27T. Those are also very interesting missiles

[@runningamok2825]

Could be cool to include it with the AIM thrust vector implementation too.

[@krower11]

Then he must introduce also radar missles because the long range IR missles have been used in Combo Tactic. First the radar homing one is fired and a second IR missle is fired afterwards. Optimizing hit probability.

[@schlong8276]

​@@krower11 You got it backwards. Usually the radar guided one is fired second to prevent the IR seeker locking onto the radar missile.

[@krower11]

@@schlong8276 Ahhh that’s interesting thanks! 🙏

[@bobmartin9918]

10:36 This has totally got to be an intended pun... "lateral thinking" while talking about attitude control...

[@darykeng]

6:00 I wish more people understood that it, yes, easier than just inventing something from scratch, but it still immensely complex and hard objective to reverse engineer the tech and adapt for your own standards of machinery, materials and production capabilities

[@willyvereb]

And sometimes it's more expensive than it's worth exactly because your own R&D already got the momentum to get this done. And then in rare cases like this the two can meet in the middle and prior research ends up fueling a much more dynamic reverse engineering methodology.

[@mattheide2775]

I think the Mig 21 is a beautiful aircraft. Just the way the lines flow and everything is swept back. Reminds me of Buck Rogers' ship and how hot the Cold War was. 😊

[@Sacto1654]

I think the Russians also figured out the early Sidewinders were _terrible_ missiles. But it took them a while to develop their own indigenous design missile, especially with a actual reasonably functioning seeker.

[@dmacpher]

The original was built to a extremely low budget at China Lake, to the point they had to hide pieces of it in other budgets because the Sparrow program was getting the green light.

[@samgeorge4798]

I would disagree, they clearly had enough trust in it that they armed some mig-21s with it as their only weapon. It was better than their r55 they were using before.

[@mattblom3990]

This is a fantastic video. As a kid growing up reading about jet combat in books, the ATOLL was often mentioned, but never defined. At least in the reading I did. They always stuck out to me because they obviously were an important Warsaw Block armament and here I am still a fan of military aviation and at 38 years old I finally learned what the ATOLL actually was. This is awesome, an old dog can learn new "tricks".

[@Vranabg]

I bet you post on reddit

[@mattblom3990]

@@Vranabg I have never posted a single thing on Reddit nor do I have an account there. I'm unclear why a comment about me reading about ATOLLs in an elementary school library triggered such a specific response?

[@ascot4000]

Whilst I agree the lineage of the Atoll owes less to the Sidewinder than popular references make out, the Soviets were actively working on the seeker design before the AIM-9 dropped in their laps. The seeker design of the Atoll owes much to a different missile that was still in (a somewhat troubled) design & test phase for the US Army at the time. That missile was the FIM-43 Redeye.

[@0MoTheG]

I have seen them both, and the K-13 and AIM-9 are almost identical.

[@ReviveHF]

During the Malaysian Indonesian Confrontation, the F-86 Sabre derivative were armed with the Sidewinders to counteract against Indonesian P-51 Mustangs as the RAF found out that the English Electric Lightning were too bulky to do dogfight against the much slower but nimble prop driven planes.

[@Ensign_Cthulhu]

I recall reading that the Lightnings which went out to the Far East did some dissimilar combat training against a Spitfire for this reason. There is an apocryphal tale that the Spitfire performance envelope also remains programmed into the RAF's combat simulators, with the option to carry a pair of AIM-9B's.

[@willyvereb]

@@Ensign_Cthulhu That sounds so British of them I'd believe it. Let's keep on log a museum fighter from ages ago firing another museum old missile which is long rendered useless by its age.

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

@@Ensign_Cthulhu Spitfire with aim9b...gjn when?!

[@GilHezkia]

Good video. A small correction though. The first combar use of the Atoll was in November 1964 during the first ever engagement between Syrian Mig-21's and Israeli Mirage 3's. The Atolls missed the Mirages and the engagement concluded with no losses to either side.

[@ferdyahern4355]

Great video as always, it's amazing to see where such complex things as missiles started off, surely you do a video on later missiles too!!

[@AndrewGivens]

It would be super-interesting to see a video on Project Bumblebee's origins, course, developments and final product delivery; where and how the state of the art in SAMs got to be by the end of the 1950s. SAMs had such a huge impact* on air forces' tactical doctrines and aircraft design going forward through the late Cold War. Frequently overlooked. *(Pun really not intended)

[@jonathanhudak2059]

Loved this documentary on the Atoll! Very interesting and loved all the period photos and film footage that you put into all of your videos as well. You really do your homework and another reason to look forward to Fridays! 🙂

[@bearshrimp]

I always look forward to your videos. The film, writing and your voice are, for me, the perfect combination. I am an American but I always like my documentaries narrated by a someone with a British or Australian accent. Keep up the great work !

[@Roddy556]

The audio is also quite crisp and clear. You can hear the information and not a bunch of cheesy music.

[@williamleadbetter9686]

Especially when the music is completely out of the time period of the era another annoyance for me I don't know about you gentlemen but this fellow is quite professional and I enjoy that.

[@Roddy556]

@williamleadbetter9686 check out Polyus Studios too. He does have music but it's very fitting.

[@Penguinius]

This is one of the best pieces of content I've seen on KZbin, really interesting, well researched and a fascinating, if niche topic. Loved it.

[@sski]

Thank you for your straight to the point (as in on the subject at all times) informative commentary and outstanding pictorial accompaniment in your videos. Too many creators waste time with the YT self promotion, strain hearing with swelling music, and patience with ads for t-shirts and widgets. You don't and I get to learn because of it. Thank You, Sir!

[@benstaubyn]

Always Awesome Aviation and storytelling 👍

[@StefanBlagojevic]

Serbian hybrid troop defense SAM/AA 'PASARS 16', uses R-13M missile, a modernized variant/offspring of the K-13, as a surface to air missile.

[@joaoonda]

A very interesting (and much needed) video. Thank you so much for your research!

[@Gman-109]

Excellent video on a very interesting subject. Well done. Subscribed. Edit - what an excellent catalogue of videos on this channel. This is going to keep me busy this week, very happy to have been suggested this video today.

[@raymondunsworth1587]

I just found this channel. What a great channel I can’t hardly wait to watch other videos!

[@rafaelaldana1503]

nice video! Great work as always

[@admiralqualityspretendingtofly]

Love this channel! Thanks!

[@Andy_Novosad]

Thank you for another great episode. Differense in designations has nothing to do with different branches of Soviet Airforces. K-13 is the designation of the weapons system as a whole. Р-3 (Р - ракета (missile)) is the designation of the missile itself, similar to the Р-60 (R-60) and R-73 (R-73) later. ✌️🇺🇦☮️

[@owpa4971]

Excellent production quality; brilliant content and narration.

[@wazza33racer]

Thank you........for an excellent technical description of early missiles for air to air combat.

[@romulus7412]

great report. happy Friday!

[@cliffalcorn2423]

Great documentary on this amazing weapon system. Thank you.

[@johnmoran8805]

Thank you! Very interesting subject, good analysis.

[@briancavanagh7048]

Thank you for an excellent doco!

[@johncashwell1024]

This channel is so good!

[@MatthewDoye]

"In new money", such a British phrase. I wonder how many others understand it or get the reference.

[@jlvfr]

Kudos to the chinese pilot who managed to return _and_ land with that thing hanging from the plane. Great combination of balls and skill!

[@RCAvhstape]

He was probably more afraid of his ejection seat than he was of a dud missile warhead hanging out of his ass.

[@Ensign_Cthulhu]

Nice! I'm hoping that one day someone will come out with a detailed (and hopefully at times technically and mathematically challenging) account in English on the development and deployment of the AA-1 "Alkali". (24:41 I was under the impression that this was a beam rider rather than SARH, although I have a vague memory of Yefim Gordon saying the final iteration had a homing seeker).

[@rossmum]

It was a pure beam rider, though it was later revised to include an IR seeker head instead of radar guidance (R-55) and its basic aerodynamic layout ended up seeing a lot of reuse for air-to-ground weaponry.

[@jeffjames1743]

I really enjoy your videos! I would like to see you do a deep dive on the Navy F-8 Crusader and Super Crusader.

[@Watchyourselvez]

This is a video I never knew I craved

[@leighrate]

Just as a point: I work for a flooring company that supplies carpet and vinyl in rolls. 3m long, rigid and 75kg is perfectly doable for 2-4 individuals in reasonable physical condition to carry. Stick a trolly under it and your quids in.

[@salvagedb2470]

" How is it possible to Post a Sidewinder ?" , I laughed so much.., But still an interesting insight into how They worked and a really Good Vid.

[@ktm8848]

great video thanx

[@skippersmg]

Great video with a lot of deep insights. Cant wait for the next one!

[@patrickunderwood5662]

I’m a big fan of Yefim Gordon’s works. Until recently, he was the only historian writing Western-accessible accounts of my favorite plane, the Su-15 Flagon. (Yes, I am weird.) But you might have noticed that he has a strong pro-Soviet/Russian bias in his interpretation of events. Just sayin; everyone has bias. BTW you have indicated you are going to tackle the Flagon. In the spirit of this video, you might also consider giving us your take on the Biznovat (sp?) R-8/R-98 missiles employed on the Su-9, Su-11, and Su-15. You’re doing excellent work, no way I’m not watching every video. Keep going!

[@thethirdman225]

'Bias' is relative.

[@dragonstormdipro1013]

During 1971 India Pakistan war, India launched 3 R3S missiles in total, one of which hit a Pakistani F104. That's 33% hit probability, although this is likely a outlier in performance.

[@TyrannoJoris_Rex]

Plus the only maneuvering an F-104 could do was departing

[@dmacpher]

Sample size limit

[@XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX981]

At 17:47 you make a very rare error. In fact the IDFAF made the first Middle East air to air missile kills with the French R.530 in 1966 "On 29 November 1966, an Israeli Air Force Dassault Mirage III shot down two Egyptian MiG-19s which were trying to intercept an Israeli reconnaissance Piper J-3 Cub in Israeli airspace. The first MiG was destroyed with an R.530 fired from less than a mile away, marking the first aerial kill for the missile. The second MiG-19 was destroyed with cannon fire." Wikipedia Although it is also recorded in one of Lon Nordeen's books I believe.

[@SuppressedOfficial]

I always find it crazy to think that a sidewinder is ten entire feet long. I've even seen them in person, and it's still almost impossible to believe they are so enormous. They're the "little" missile!

[@WarWithIn]

Just a quick question, do you fly in DCS? And what do you think of the upcoming F-4? And thanks for the great videos 😅😊 Can you make a video on the linebacker campaign and the performance of the Mig-21 vs the B-52, as I read before the Mig-21 had a hard time to reach the B-52 which doesn't make sense that the had hard time to shoot down a target as big as the BUFF 😅😂

[@colderwar]

The rolleron only had an effect above a certain height ( can't remember the exact figures ) - it was deleted for a short while on the US version because of certain problems it was causing and then re-instated.

[@flavortown3781]

Iirc rollerons need speed to work

[@fredmdbud]

@@flavortown3781all missiles do

[@markdavis2475]

Ron Westrum's book "Sidewinder" is a good read for all things Sidewinder!

[@bobmartin9918]

I read somewhere once that a vietnamese fighter ace got most of his kills with R3R missiles. I can't provide a sauce sadly but it might be worth looking into that.

[@johnhudghton3535]

A sauce? Would that be Nuroc Cham? Maybe a source is that which is needed 😂😂😂

[@NickThePilotUSA]

Did Vietnam receive the R3R?

[@jerryle379]

​@@NickThePilotUSA no ideal as we have all type of k13 variant in our storage

[@RCAvhstape]

@@johnhudghton3535 Would you happen to have any Grey Poupon?

[@johnhudghton3535]

@@RCAvhstape La moutarde de Dijon?

[@ramal5708]

The fact that the Soviets only realized about the ability of IR missiles in Taiwan-China conflict, when US supplied taiwanese Sabres used Sidewinder and got some kills, a missile stuck on Chinese aircraft and was brought to USSR for study and making the IR missile gap with US close to none.

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

Not really realised. IR missiles were in development (and actually affected r3s, its seeker had different construction, but not by a lot), there were just behind in making them work, which sidewinder fixed, by providing a design of missile that worked. After that initial push they had not much trouble keeping up.

[@garryb374]

The capture and examination of the Sidewinder was not about giving them a working air to air missile. What was ground breaking about the Sidewinder compared with the existing Soviet missile, codenamed AA-1 Alkali in the west was that the Sidewinder was conceptionally simple and logical. The AA-1 was complex and complicated to make and to service and was a mess of bits and pieces all mashed together in the shell of the missile. In comparison the Sidewinder was simple and basic. It wasn't that the Sidewinder had a better seeker or rocket motor or aerodynamic configuration. It was that the layout and fundamental simple modular design made them easier to make easier to design or improve and easier to service. They copied this missile because their AAM design bureaus needed time to take on the new concept of modular design, and copying the weapon would get something into service they could use while new Soviet missiles could be designed base on this new design paradigm. Ironically it led eventually to the R-27 which is probably the most modular and flexible AAM available anywhere. Copying is not simple or easy or cheap... but it tends to be faster than designing something from scratch. It reduces innovation and growth potential and of course the enemy who uses that weapon will already be familiar with its basic performance so it will never be as good or as effective as you hope... but it will fill a gap. (A video showing the complex AA-1 Alkali would be the best way to show why they copied the Sidewinder and changed the way they made future AAMs).

[@ChristianThePagan]

Thumbs up to that Chinese pilot for flying his bird back and landing it with an AAM sticking out of the airframe that, for all he knew, could have gone off at the slightest bit of buffeting. Nerves of steel.

[@ghostb9339]

PVO is basically Anti Air Defense force and their main objective is to defend against enemy air attacks. VVS is Military Aviation Force and their main purpose is much more complex as you can presume.

[@kainhall]

they also made a radar guided version..... R-3R . i have also tried to look into the difference between R3S and K13M1 (and M2)...... and have not been able to find ANYTHING just i have a feeling.... that in DCS at least.... that the K13M2 is slightly better

[@zacklewis342]

Good video. Please ignore the copy-bots insisting you can only watch this at 1.25x. However, you do need to stop throwing an extra A in IDFAF.

[@michaelmoorrees3585]

The first time I heard of the Atoll, was in 1980, when one of my high school buddies was on leave from the Air Force (EOD - "bomb squad", think Hurt Locker - Bad movie) and described it to me. We graduated high school in the 1970s. Wonder if the Romanians still have some atolls. They were still flying MiG-21s early in the current Ukrainian War. Maybe they shipped them over the border, and the Ukrainians have salvaged the warheads (?).

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

Hardly. As was said, the missiles are too old and unreliable to use + they got r60/r73 and all kinds of western missiles (after some mods mig21 can carry about anything there is).

[@timbrwolf1121]

To give even more credit where credit is due. Someone being talented at reverse engineering does not make them any less talented than the original engineer. In many cases to be able to create a perfect copy is an even rarer ability. The chinese are very good at this. The quality may not always be there, but the fact that they have reverse engineered their way through 8 decades of progress since ww2. Its crazy.

[@BoraHorzaGobuchul]

Problem is, copying and creating from scratch are not exactly identical skill sets. Also, people who could create original stuff in the SU were often forced to make copies instead of doing original work.

[@werre2]

do the rollerons rotate when the missile is not yet fired but hangs under the wing..?

[@daszieher]

22:40 you mention "off the enemy's tail. Do you mean aspect angle or isn't it rather the off-boresight angle of the launching aircraft?

[@TheKeithvidz]

wonder if september 1958 FIRST ever air to air missile kill.

[@crazygmanssimstuff]

In Vietnam the VPAF had actually much better success with the R3S after they got used to the proper firing parameters that it needed to be fired in, and did far better then 10%. But they knew they had to surprise their opponent and so set up their attacks to reflect this. The better success was also due to VPAF pilots not rotating out of the conflict, and that shot down pilots that ejected were not captured, unlike US pilots, so those were able to learn and pass on their knowledge. I recommend reading some of the works of Istavan Toperczer, on the VPAF.

[@brealistic3542]

Reverse engineering the Sidewinder? Peanuts compared to when they totally reversed copied the B-29 ! 😆

[@cyberbrosstudios7662]

Down to copying the Boeing markings on the yoke

[@BoraHorzaGobuchul]

​@@cyberbrosstudios7662also, achieving to the anecdotes, the ad-hoc paint job, labels, wire colors and so on. They had to build manufacturing plant to produce non-metric fasteners and non-SU-standard wire gauges.

[@megalamanooblol]

@@BoraHorzaGobuchul Nah, the anecdote that takes the cake about the B-29/TU-4 IMO, is that supposedly one of the pilots in B-29 left his personal photo camera in the cockpit, so when Soviets created the TU-4, it came with 1x photo camera for each plane.

[@kenb7051]

So now we need to know whats the sidewinder success rate for the same period of operation. I would bet its not as low as we think nor is it as high as we would like.

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

@notapound >>> Great video...👍

[@Godvana_]

I feel I should mention that Yefim Gordon's books should not be taken as reliable sources. From the ones I have read they are riddled with errors, and even then, they are only the ones I can spot and personally verify as errors. I've also noticed that others online have had similar experiences with his books.

[@goldmastersimulations]

He thought late MiG-23s had the Rita voice warning system because of mentions of the RI-65 in an equipment list.

[@Ihaveguitars]

Excellent content and production as per usual. Carry on, please.

[@youmad7068]

Serbian Military Technical Institute developed RLN IC and Radar guided surface to air missiles based on R13 to be used on Pasars-16 and Harpas AA Systems.

[@saiajin82]

Thanks! I thought the AA-10 was also a copy of the sidewinder.

[@anno-fw7xn]

I would love a video about the m9b

[@alloutlife88]

11:13 wasnt the first aircraft to carry the missile a MIG-19?

[@crataeguscrusgalli]

"Reverse engineering is not actually all that easy." My heart bleeds for the poor Soviets. Fortunately, they had lots of experience with the Jumo 004 (Klimov RD-10) and the Tu-4 (B-29).

[@seanmcardle]

I wonder...are the rolllerons spinning from take off for the entire flight and then launch.?

[@posmoo9790]

attol was replaced by the r-60 & r-73 not the alamo series

[@MrStasyan2013]

the plant started producing alamos, r60s and r73s were made else where

[@thinhvcoin]

VPAF: we shot down around 100 aircraft with Atoll Westerners: I give you 40, maybe 50 at best. VPAF: what do you mean? You weren't there. Westerners: I said 50, thats all you are gonna get. I like your way of thinking. It is great. Keep doing it

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

Btw 100 planes number was confirmed by US ITSELF, after they compared their records to vietnamese/soviet copy of them after the fall.

[@haydenchan6389]

I’d love to see a documentary on the development of the r60! Great work!

[@SoloRenegade]

12:25 this was a Very good idea, as it increased the odds of survival of Western pilots. It's all a matter of perspective.

[@onetimer44]

I hope DOD ripped the manufacturer a new one for the poor quality of a weapon that won't blow up. I saw where the early sidewinders were badly affected by humidity.

[@TyrannoJoris_Rex]

Hell, just the way the missiles were handled roughly would bug them

[@heinrichwonders8861]

What aircraft is that at 23:47?

[@ryssa2409]

J-8-ii

[@minera7595]

The Taiwan strait crisis origin on it's own is already wild, But that polish tales was extraordinary!

[@KokkiePiet]

So if the copy had a successful hit rate of 4-5 % what did the original have?

[@pirate42069]

10-20% during the Vietnam war, but they are mostly with upgraded Aim9-E,D,G and Js models.

[@Elrusoargentino]

Once again, good video, very interesting. I learned a couple of things about the inner workings of IR missiles that I didn't know before. Good job. Regarding the performance in combat of the R-3S in the Vietnam War: I plotted all the NVAF claims that I could find in the available sources (most prominently the books of Istvan Toperczer, but also a book by Roger Boniface and a Vietnamese report sent to the Soviets, translated in 1992 into English when US and Russia shared infor about POW/MIAs at the end of the Cold War) and I found 157 instances of Vietnamese air-to-air claims using the R-3S. Out of these 157, 115 match with US actual losses, but in 13 of them the USAF/USN credited such losses to SAM/AAA or accidents, two were cases in which the struck aircraft were damaged but survived, and 4 were BQM-34 drones. That leave 95 instances in which the R-3S actually destroyed an American manned aircraft, much higher than the 40-50 that you postulate. That includes 56 Phantoms (five F-4C, 16 F-4D, 21 F-4E and seven RF-4C of the USAF, plus three F-4B and four F-4J of the USN/USMC), 29 Thuds (24 F-105D, four F-105F and a lone F-105G), plus 10 other types (two RF-101C, two B-52D, one F-102A, one EB-66C, one HH-53B, one F-8J, one A-7B and finally one RA-5C). If you have any doubt on my estimates, please ask me.

[@RCAvhstape]

Another solid video. The Soviet block missiles are certainly interesting, and it doesn't surprise me that they copied the AIM-9B almost completely; they copied the B-29 bomber down to the rivet. Also, I always wondered what those thumbwheel-looking thingies were on the corners of the Sidewinder/Atoll fins and was about to look it up when you described it here, very cool.

[@atomicskull6405]

The Tu-4 wasn't an exact copy, the soviet union was 100% on metric and so they used metric hardware and metric sheet metal, it also used soviet engines and soviet radio gear and a bunch of other small changes. Stalin's original mandate was for an exact clone but that turned out to not be practical and it morphed into "as close as reasonably possible". The TU-4 family continued evolving and even the TU-95 which is still operating today can be considered a descendant of the TU-4 and by extension the B-29. (the latest TU-95s were made in 1992 and today it's a missile carrier rather than a bomber)

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

@@atomicskull6405 And also THE best prop plane in existence.

[@ioanbota9397]

They are powerful

[@sorryociffer]

Waiting for the AIM-9X replacement to come out for next gen American aircraft, the AIM-9Y(olo).

[@cideltacommand7169]

How do you know its not already out

[@sorryociffer]

@@cideltacommand7169 Because A2A missiles generally are as airtight secrets… we know about the AIM-260 and that still only in tests. And, because I was making a joke as to the lethality of the next Gen sidewinder…

[@madzen112]

When you copy a missile that failed to explode, issues are likely to appear

[@madzen112]

Like, 'If we take this missile that doesn't work and does the exact same thing, man we're gonna have a great missile!'

[@ahuels67]

Damn KZbin not sending me your video notifications again

[@Mister_Ce]

Ракета всегда знает, где она находится. Он знает это, потому что знает, где его нет. Вычитая, где оно есть, из того, где его нет или где оно не из того, где оно есть, в зависимости от того, что больше, мы получаем разницу или отклонение.

[@cascadianrangers728]

Someone smarter than me can maybe answer this, but why does the seekerhead need cooling if the missle is going the speed of sound, or faster? Air cooling just isn't enough?

[@wlmac]

Friction

[@nikbear]

The faster you go, the more heat you generate!

[@cideltacommand7169]

Thats the opposite, the engine from the missile brings it to supersonic speeds so the friction from the air is enough to "jam" the missile by causing interference to the seeker or cooking the electronics singlehandedly. It's simple physics

[@RonGreeneComedian]

At about four minutes in, did the narrator say that the missile was smuggled out in a car hidden in a carpet? Either that was a large carpet or a small car. 😅

[@TyrannoJoris_Rex]

Only had to be 3 meters long

[@mitedupev7956]

I think they broke the back window of the car so they could transfer it 😂

[@TyrannoJoris_Rex]

Wow. So they kept developing the Atoll even after the Aphid entered service? Was it just to improve export customers’ arsenals?

[@TyrannoJoris_Rex]

Now that the R-60 video's out with its minimal range, I see why

[@MrTylerStricker]

Comrade, Volga can carry Sidewinder as easily as load of groceries!!

[@The_Fubar]

"wasn't exported widely if ATOLL..."

[@robertkalinic335]

I thought syrinia sounds kinda funny to be russian word for production, closest i got to smthng resembling what u mean is Серийная/serijnaja which is serial like in serial production. Idk russian that good, it just sounded too weird.