STRONGER THAN BRASS DOME ON JUGGERNAUT? Comparison with The Fourth Vow | Path of Exile

[@dreamcore_gg]

Though I didn't mention it in the video, I should also note here that the Fourth Vow setup will of course be far stronger against chaos damage hits as well 👍

[@HansWurst-gm2rx]

I think it is hard to compare. For Fourth Vow it depends on your Timless Jewel aswell. Depending on placement or pathing you can get 1-2% additional Max Chaos Resist. In addition, you could lean into Phys taken as Chaos (from Mastery) which further mitigates Physical Damage taken and applying Armor twice.

[@dreamcore_gg]

@@HansWurst-gm2rx This is true, but any points you are investing into the dominated Glorious Vanity nodes, you are not investing elsewhere on your tree so you'd be dropping some stats somewhere. Also maximum chaos resistance on the Fourth Vow setup is much more insignificant than maximum elemental resistances are because the elemental resistances are the weak part of the build. And to get that mastery you'd need to path all the way to the armour/ES wheels, which again would cost significant passive point investment. Also armour is not applied twice(it can only go through the mitigation stage once).

[@orcadigital]

@@dreamcore_gg I have an RF Jugg instead of Boneshatter, so the part of the tree is a bit different, but even better is running Brass Dome with Divine Flesh and the 10% Armor applies to Chaos Mastery. Unbreakable is even better as with the mastery, you are splitting elemental damage in half, and applying armor to both sides of those half size hits. Its basically most of the Fourth Vow benefits with all of the Brass Dome ones. I use a rare chest with 2300 armor due to stats (and phys taken as craft), but with 84-86% max all res (chaos is 86) and 97k armor, its pretty tanky.

[@dreamcore_gg]

@@orcadigital Yeah that's a great mastery for any ascendancy scaling armour with DF - even better on Jugg as you've mentioned. I think it's good even if you don't scale the max chaos resistance much past 80% purely because it will significantly lessen the downside that Brass Dome normally has against elemental penetration, but obviously you scale it on RF so that you take less DoT. Nice build!

[@daath144occultistmaster5]

Forth wow is way better than brass dome after you fit in determination and some jewel specific max chaos res, I know because I've played a shit ton with each this season and now with forth wov I'm doing lvl 17 and feeling crazy stable

[@TraxisOnTheLines]

I really enjoyed how you compared the two. You went in without any biases, you explained the testing situation, you explained why the test was relevant, and you explained the results in a way that was easy to understand. I love these kind of videos, and you've proven your knowledge of PoE is high enough that I can always trust the information :)

[@IDYNI]

Would be nice to see a comparison between The Fourth Vow + Divine Flesh vs Doppelganger Guise + Divine Flesh in both scenarios

[@dreamcore_gg]

Yeah I intend to do some videos on the Doppelganger Guise soon!

[@codranine6054]

@@dreamcore_gg nooooo! Don’t tell them!!! 😂😂😂 Just kidding it’s good and nice to know we got options

[@MyMetalMedia]

Thanks for the video, I like you using real boss abilities for your examples. Would love to see more of these style of videos, comparing a wider range of common defensive mechanics to see the pro' cons of each. :)

[@Eepistoo]

Cool content, small bites of build enabling combinations, but not full builds. That makes this fun to watch and think possibilities your self.

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

I'd like know how much of a difference in character life there was/would be between Brass Dome versus The Fourth Vow. Cos it seems to me the Brass Dome is the superior choice unless that life total is significant. Brass Dome is better against physical damage, elemental damage over time and crits. Fourth Vow is better against chaos damage (which is typically weak when you have high chaos res anyway, as it's balanced for characters having less or even negative chaos res) and elemental damage with penetration (which is pretty rare - the Shapers' ball attack is the only thing I know of with a large amount of penetration). So Brass Dome just seems useful more of the time than Fourth Vow is, and also leaves you free to use a different Timeless jewel (like Strength of Blood for instance). However if we have a significantly higher life pool to absorb all those things with by using The Fourth Vow instead, that might narrow the gap quite a bit.

[@dreamcore_gg]

It's definitely significant - in that example I used, with no additional strength from gear, the BD had 500 less life than the FV. I'd say you would probably have a bit more strength here and there on gear so it could be even 6-700 in the end.

[@daath144occultistmaster5]

you people online are unbelievably ignorant on every topic its nuts

[@jannol1269]

What about some map modifiers like 60% less effect of auras, or 30% less armour, or without flasks, or monster that does pure phys for 4k, but has mode: ignore 100% of player physical reduction. Or what about eater altar mod: players have 60% less physical reduction... There are many mods interacting with player defences so having a look at which is more durable and how much more might be interesting.

[@GuHan-n7c]

Hope you do keystone combine technique and some rared keystone in game (as imbalance guard, arrow dancing and etc)

[@IslayToMuch]

I tested it with a RF jugg, I made and it worked, but the skill tree cost was too high to justify the set up.

[@valeristoilov5123]

Very nice work on the video man

[@CYI3ERPUNK]

TFV is outperforming my BD , but im also taking advantage of the Divine Flesh synergy with TFV , but imho the synergy is the whole point ; the loss of life from the BD is big drawback [and you cant even use the life mastery node to counteract it which is lame af] regardless of BD's huge armor stats and the no crits and the max res ; at the apex of endgame/mirror tier however , a sickeningly rare Glorious Plate is probably always going to outperform almost any unique , but since getting one of those mirror-tier armors is rare af , having solid unique goto's are certainly useful and functional and convenient ; it seems like the BD has a lot of negative synergy's with the Marauder's typical high strength builds [even RF not focusing on Str ends up with 200+] and the BD is a lot more attractive to a build that only wants minimal str and/or can remove/get around the requirements thru other means , ie omniscience/etc ; something worth mentioning is that you can also combine Divine Flesh with the BD and the armor mastery that applies 10% of armor to chaos hits , creating a sort of hybrid approach between these two ; this also reminds me of Kaom's Heart which used to be a wild chase item back in OG PoE when it had 1k life , but currently its basically trash tier with the no sockets absolutely not being worth the tradeoff , imho KH needs to give 1k life again AND get a huge boost to fire dmg like 500% increased or 100% more or somesuch uber buff , otherwise its just a relic of times past , and that's sad/lame af

[@finalfragment8432]

you don't really need 75% chaos res on the brass dome build i think u can get away with 30% -40% since there is not much chaos hits in the game

[@自我表达]

Thank you so much for the high quality video

[@burakahmettr8193]

thanks, but i think where is fourth vow actually shines is super high end builds, in that builds you already got stupid amount of armour and max res, making brass dome nearly uselless. rf builds in this season was super smooth because of fourth vow. i did try fourth vow on mid budget boneshatter build, it didnt go well.

[@stinger15au]

I'm using fourth vow with +1max res corrupt. Plus a saffels with 8% phys taken as chaos corrupt and +4%max chaos res on cruc tree, so i have 90% max chaos res as well as 60% shock avoid on tree. Got crit reduction on a watchers eye+tree for crit immune and stormshroud for aliment immune. I feel basically immune to elemental and chaos damage and pretty tanky against phys allthough not immune of course.

[@dreamcore_gg]

Sounds like a beefy build!

[@stinger15au]

@Dreamcore Powered by my first ever mirror drop after 5 leagues! Bit easier to get creative with lots of currency to start with.

[@dreamcore_gg]

@@stinger15au Oh wow congrats, that's a juicer! I've never seen a mirror in 11 leagues :)

[@DlES-IRAE]

@@stinger15au lucky bastard, over 8k hours since 2014 and never had a mirror drop

[@stinger15au]

@@DlES-IRAE I was feeling the same, nearly had a heartattack!

[@erothh9830]

I'm using a fourth vow on my Jugg Reaper. Really enjoying it and giving plenty of tank, definitely making me question if I want to get a big ticket rare chest with aura implicits or not because of all it's utility and chaos res scaling

[@dreamcore_gg]

Yeah it's a great body armour! The rare chest can be very good if it's crafted well, you can get near the same armour as the Brass Dome with some additional PDR and crafted spell suppression, but I'm not convinced that it's better unless you need it to cap SS and you are making use of the additional PDR(like on Boneshatter).

[@insertnamehere4419]

Thing is people keep parroting damage taken as can only happen once, so you can't change phys>fire>chaos. Meanwhile Juggs have been doing this tech for a while. This chest +Divine Flesh is incredible for Jugg

[@dreamcore_gg]

You can't shift damage twice. Jugg with FV + DF is strong because armour's application is applied separately to each damage type, therefore 100% of armour would be applied to the 50% of elemental damage that is shifted to be taken as chaos damage, and 8% of armour would be applied to the remaining damage that is taken as elemental. Since armour is more effective against smaller hits, this is a very effective mitigation method

[@insertnamehere4419]

@@dreamcore_gg Right? Tell that to the people hung up on buh buh but you cant shift damage twice...as if that makes it any less of a valid combo.

[@dreamcore_gg]

@@insertnamehere4419 Yeah I think they're just misunderstanding why it's used on Jugg

[@tindekappa9047]

On Brass dome you can afford to cap chaos res with your endurance charges as Jug, whereas Fourth Vow has to have capped chaos res at 0 endurance charges. So that's an extra chaos res roll that can push the price of a rare up by up to a few divines. Depends on how starved for stats your build is maybe you need 155 int and dex.

[@dreamcore_gg]

This is not really true though for 2 reasons: Firstly, almost no Juggernaut build is using Unrelenting right now, only 5% of all Juggernauts on SC trade Crucible are using it. And secondly, there is a chaos resistance roll on the armour itself that even on a minimum roll, is equal to 4 endurance charges if you had that node.

[@optiondezzo1513]

i think the most important question is how does fourth vow's phys - chaos damage modifier work against exarch altar's chaos damage modifier?

[@dreamcore_gg]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but if you're talking about the phys as extra chaos altar mod, the armour applying to chaos damage mod on FV will be very effective against pure chaos damage, so it will be able to heavily mitigate the extra chaos portion of that damage.

[@optiondezzo1513]

@@dreamcore_gg thanks for the reply. i was referring to the exarch altar chaos ''dot'' damage.

[@dreamcore_gg]

@@optiondezzo1513 Ahh if you mean the chaos dot during flask effect, the FV won't do anything extra to mitigate that, it only works against chaos damage from hits.

[@optiondezzo1513]

@@dreamcore_gg thanks for your quick reply! =)

[@Hurbieo]

How can you get stronger than overkill? Brass dome will already put you at the armor damage res cap.

[@dreamcore_gg]

Armour damage res cap? Something like this doesn't exist. Armour scales in a way that it's very effective against small hits and less effective against larger hits. The physical damage reduction in the character sheet is completely irrelevant, if that's what you're referring to.

[@lolleonlolable]

u kinda didnt mention that ur almost immune to chaos damag with the forth setup, also these numbers would look way diff with like 100k armour on forth, like my jugg has 90k-120k armour depending on if i stand still or not with flask thats alot when u only thate 50%of the ele damage vs that 8%mini trancendance

[@dreamcore_gg]

The chaos damage point is pinned in the comments! Also, of course the comparison would be different with different armour values, but it's not like the brass dome can't achieve much higher values far easier as well. This is an attempt at a fair comparison of the same build.

[@lolleonlolable]

@@dreamcore_gg yeah my wording was a bit off what i was really trying to say was: forth has alot of potential if u get more armour , to reduce ele damage by a lot.

[@johnengels8017]

All those numbers you showed would still be a 1 shot wouldnt it be. So wouldnt matter witch one you used.

[@dreamcore_gg]

Unless you have a ridiculously low life pool, no, most of these are tankable. Some would need molten shell and the only one that is realistically going to kill most setups regardless is the flameblast.

[@7errafirma]

This is a little bit unfair to The Brass Dome, as you can use divine flesh with the brass as well. I love these explanations videos on this channel, but I want to note that you can use divine flesh alone, with no other mechanics, and it's still huge damage mitigation by itself and a way of dealing with penetration.

[@edboy_1]

Divine flesh alone doesn't do anything apart from pen if you're @ equal amounts of Resistance. Getting divine flesh with BD will make you take 16.6% increased damage from elemental damage without accounting for Unbreakable using endgame max res numbers as shown in the video (85% ele 80%chaos). You can argue unbreakable 8% armour will mitigate better on 7.5% ele damage taken (half of the hit) instead of 15%, but this way half of your incoming damage will work on resistances that are 33% worse, effectively cutting your max resistance investment in half, AND losing a jewel/timeless jewel slot in the process to have less or similar EHP at best lmao

[@IamThePro78]

Why show video of sanctums. I miss it enough why torture me lol

[@dreamcore_gg]

I'll keep putting it in there until GGG bring it back in protest!

[@pavelstoikov3780]

hey i have ltel help i have bone shatter jug but i need life , when i funaly swich to bras dome my life go down :D before was 3.4 now is 2.7

[@dreamcore_gg]

Yeah, Brass Dome removes the life granted by Strength. It's quite a considerable downside

[@АндрейАндрей-м5п4б]

And what better?

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

Brass Dome is better against physical damage, elemental damage over time and negates enemy critical strikes. Fourth Vow is better against chaos damage and elemental damage with high amounts of penetration (basically just the Shapers' ball attack and Atziri's double Flameblast). Brass Dome should also have slightly less life than Fourth Vow, due to strength not scaling your life anymore.

[@frankblanco6946]

Brass dome op