SU-16A Pt 1: FULLY UPGRADED

[@formdoggie5]

Glass reinforced polymer (the "zytel" it's made of) actually has the same structural strength as tool-grade aluminum. Bumps and drops from human height will be fine, to the point it will shock you as to how well it will hold up (see Glock). Basically, it will hold up as well as a good to highend powertool housing will. Where the problem comes in is when you get it too hot. This gun wont like you shooting 6, 30+ round mags through it as fast as you can, to put it mildly, lol. Wont like being stabbed by metal things, either. Other than that, I also wouldn't recommend "mortaring" methods for jams as I suspect even aluminum as thin as the rear stocks could fail doing that -- definitely wouldn't recommend butt strokes, either. Adding the RLP forend actually probably helps alot with the thermal load and thermal dissipation, helping to minimize those effects. Will likely keep the gun accurate for more shots as you transition from cold to hot bore along with the freefloat benefits. Paintjob will also solve any ding/scratch/dent problems you'd have so long as you arent treating it like a total caveman, too. Probably one of the best guns you can get in CA for bump in the night or truck duty, especially for the price they were going for pre pandemic.

[@rjenkins8352]

You must really love that rifle/carbine...with all the $$$ upgrades...I won't even ask why..Just glad to see a fellow brother in arms doing what he loves..Enjoy it brother, it's a looker..

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

I have been a fan of Kel-tec and previously owned a SU-16CA and loved it. With the extra cost, the rifle was so cheap to start I kind of wanted to see what another 180 would do. I'm glad I did! Like you say, it's a real looker and at 6.5 pounds with Tula I can shoot to 650 accurately! Check out my part 2 to see that :)

[@rjenkins8352]

Hobbes0331 ...Will do brother...

[@jmp6534]

wanted to update you. I had to remove my primary arms 1-6 scope.. but took abetting apart.. oiled up really good and cleaned the gas tube.. really polished everything.. oil spring very well. went to range did 3-4 mag dumps approx 120 rounds. not a single failure to eject. feed or stove pipe!

[@gilbertoesquivel9668]

Sweet setup you got there brother. That camo duracoat job is sick!

[@tomyork8815]

That camo pattern at the butt end of the stock is..... Amazing. 😊

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

;)

[@jungblud59]

you did an excellent job with the paint, I really like it.

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

Thanks!

[@adamadams6740]

Very good looking gun.

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

Thanks! I think this was my best work :)

[@XtremeConditions]

That thing looks sick! Might consider one of those forends. Likewise, the sights have been lacking in accuracy, though my eyes aren't the greatest. So tech sights may we a nice upgrade as well.

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

It looks great and the free floating made this little guy a real shooter! I put it out to 650 yards in one of my other videos on my page with this set up and it got them close. The target was also only a 3/4 IPSC too.

[@AaronAlso]

This is a sweet little rifle, I only wish they made a .300BLK barrel for it.

[@minibikeamigos]

AaronAlso barrel boss does

[@linkl_6641]

Many places sell conversions

[@Akhazmat907]

Holy great googly moogaly that's awesome.

[@teefrankenstein4340]

Thanks for the video, gave me some good ideas for my rifle.

[@Meat_Demon]

Such a rad rifle.

[@nimbly1693]

I would like to see more of this rifle.

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

I do have 2 more videos with this rifle. One is shooting it at 650 yards and the other is about the reliability :)

[@nimbly1693]

What is the weight difference between the stock forearm and the RL one?

[@jmp6534]

no I didn't send it yet... don't want to deal with holiday shiiping and the non sense. last night tore everything apart.. doing a deep cleaning. abs seeing if anything looks broke.. will then try my other ammo. American eagle.. and see how that does. PS. not a fan of a paint job cammo but yours came out really well! looks really good. was thinking of doing possible od green all the way.. well see. I'll update you after I take it out this weekend. keltec originally told me to try a heavy grain instead of 55 to see if that helps

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

Tell me how that goes. How many rounds have you put through it so far?

[@jmp6534]

Hobbes0331 didn't send it.... I might after new year. just tore apart. cleaned.. lubed spring.. detailed.. I'll try running American eagle high grain after... no help I'll send out after new year and keep u posted. thx!

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

Thanks man! I know my buddy had issues with FTE's in his AR and after he replaced a weak extractor spring, they cleared up 100%. This may be the same issue and would be a quick fix for the factory or yourself. I am going to be in contact with Kel-Tec about it and will post a new video after.

[@jmp6534]

I have the same model. new front bravo sight... my stove pipes allot... 1 out of 20-25 rounds. using the federal 55 grain..

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

I have the same issue with some Federal varmint tip 50 grain and I have done a new video showing the best ammunition for it. I would steer clear of .223 Remington loads for self defense in this rifle.

[@oeaeh]

Impressive, very nice.

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

Thank you!

[@XtremeConditions]

Oh and P.S., yeah, for some reason Federal .223 (bulk pack and AE223) runs like crap, only problem being I can't find anything else where I am. So I just run steel case and don't really have any problems. Disappointing, since I'm actually partial to Federal given solid performance in my other guns. But hey, it is what it is.

[@Thetailofthetrident]

Mine has been far more reliable than any of my AR's it doesn't like Promags or TapCo mags, It likes PSA GI mags and Mission First Tactical mags as well Magpul mags. And that barrell can handle me putting 9 mags of 25 rounds in quick succession without a loss in accuracy. And, I have dropped it and tripped in a river bed with it and it has still run like old "Engine #99" right on time. Lastly, my SU-16c doesn't like steel cased ammo, on the other hand it eats up the cheapest brass, I have put through it like candy.

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

I think the problem with the steel case is the same issue as any rifle. You can't fire long strings of it or the case expands due to heat. I love the support nd thanks for the comment! If you want to shoot steel just try going slower :)

[@Moby604]

They should have after market aluminium parts if the only issue is the polymer.

[@Sir_Kull]

Did you need to remove the front sight in order to install the forend? Would you be able to post a video showing how to install it?

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

Yes I did take the front sight off and if you have the new A model with the M16 style adjustment, it is only one screw you have to remove. I was thinking about doing a video since it has been requested but I can't seem to find the time or the original parts to show how to get that off. Really, taking the OEM stuff off is the hardest part.

[@speedwaypinoy]

Greeting Comrade! I too am from this great State of Bear, how's the heat from the Red Lion Precision after shooting? I rarely see any videos about this handguard and i've been considering it on my SU16CA

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

The heat is not bad when you have a foregrip of some sort and even when it doesn't, it is so well vented that you would have to shoot more than 60 rounds fast before it became uncomfortable. I wouldn't recommend a lot of that with this rifle anyhow =) it's more of a "get you out of trouble" type rifle. But I really like it and it really, really, improves accuracy.

[@Sig_P229]

@@MrLedFarmer0331 One buddy to another, the front fore grip makes any centerfire rifle an assualt rifle in Cali. Just a heads up.

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

@@Sig_P229 That's only if it "protruding ominously" as I read the law ;)

[@manganvbg90]

Hobbes0331 angle foregrips are not grips so ok in CA

[@kylewoll78]

Is that forend the long one for 190 bucks. Cause to me yours looks way shorter. If you could please let me know I just inherited this rifle and want to change it like yours

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

Yes, it is the full length model.

[@TruthSeeker9038]

I like your setup, looks nice. I just bought a brand new su16A. I was using Frontier Hornady 55grain 5.56. She miss fed just about every other round. Any advice? Also, what kind of hand rail is that? I want to replace the plastic ones and also throw a muzzle break on it

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

The rail is made by Red Lion Precision and I certainly recommend it. The website link is in the video description. For ammo, I did a video on having problems with stove pipes with certain ammo as well. I thought I would use 50 gr. varmint flex tip for home defense, turned out I would get a failure to eject every ten rounds. I also found out that the new Alpha model has a 1:7 inch twist which doesn't do a good job of stabilizing lighter bullets so 55 gr is the lightest I would go. As far as what works in my rifle, it seems like the cheaper the better. I know that sounds silly but Tulammo and Wolf seem to work best. It also seems to do pretty well with M855 green tip. I think it has to do with the pressure of cartridges being higher but I have also heard that is you replace the extractor spring it can solve the issue. I have done that to mine with a BCM one, havent tested it though, I'll let you know when I do!

[@TruthSeeker9038]

Hobbes0331 thanks for the info!

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

@@TruthSeeker9038 Was the miss feed a failure to feed or failure to eject? I have had stove pipes but not many failures to feed. I have had that issue with a CA model I owned in the past but I was using really weird hollow points that would hang up on the feed ramp and jammed the bullet into the case.

[@TruthSeeker9038]

Hobbes0331 failure to eject. I’m using 55 grain frontier 5.56 , the casing won’t eject fully, causing the rifle to jam up. Nothing I’m not used to dealing with after time in Iraq, but that was after sand filling into my m4, not brand new, in a controlled environment.

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

@@TruthSeeker9038 same issue I had with certain ammo. I did a video on how to clear that without getting a double feed and that's in the same video I did on the ammo. I also did one where I was shooting at 650 yards with 55 gr tulammo on a 3/4 size IPSC plate and let me tell you, those Tech sites are pretty awesome! I served in Iraq as well but I had the M16A4 :) it was 04 though. What year did you visit the sand box?

[@clarissasuarez8574]

could you talk about the redlion fore im looking for vids on it and cant find any for the su16 only plr

[@danhold1]

nicely done

[@egypttorres7717]

and also can you talk about the fore a little more. I also can't find any vids on it

[@davidoneil3342]

I have heard of the the plastic receiver breaking after 800 rounds or so

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

Really? This one is well past 600 (for certain) and may, in all seriousness, be closer to 800 or 1000 and I see no sign of cracking or unusual wear. I did see one snap were the upper and lower meet but a 230 lb man fell on it while out hunting so... yeah. But you will definitely get a new video if anything like that ever happens!

[@karlpach.9487]

@@MrLedFarmer0331 I broke my SU16CA at the hinge because the bolt was locked open and the trigger down when I attempted to unfold the stock. Keltec sent me a new stock right away at no cost. Now I'm more careful when I unfold the gun.

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

@@karlpach.9487 oh dang!

[@s.patrick6136]

Hi. Great rifle. Just got one. What pin would I be looking for to replace the takedown pin that comes standard. ? Does it come with the loop as well? Thanks. Safe shooting.

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

They have them at home improvement stores set up like this. It's a 1/4 pin with a retaining ball at the end.

[@s.patrick6136]

Hobbes0331 many thanks. My son works there and I’ll have him check for me. Stay safe and healthy my friend.

[@TheMobster450]

Is your bolt handle different from stock ?

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

Actually, on the CA and C models the charging handle is plastic and works as a brass deflector and also has a built in dust cover. The A, B, and D models all have this steel, barrel style charging handle.

[@egypttorres7717]

how did you remove the front sight to put the redlion fore on ??

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

I took out the set screws and hit it with a rubber mallet

[@roninanglers]

Where did you get the rail system?

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

I bought it from the Red Lion website. I highly recommend it!

[@k.n.9956]

How much does your setup weigh with the new front handguard installed vs OEM keltec foldout bipod front

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

This rifle, as it sits with the angled foregrip, is 6.6 pounds exactly. The original on the website is 5 pounds.

[@dalejenkiens9378]

I'm currently looking at one of these in a pawn shop the dude wants a little over 600 for it would it be worth even attempting to get

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

I'd say yes. I do think that price for a used one is a little much but if you are in a blue state it is a good bet. Otherwise an AR would be a better choice.

[@Saltyems]

awesome video, i was looking to do something like this, i heard you could put a Magpul Zhucov foregrip on as well, but how was the foregrip you have on it now going on. were there any modifications needed to make it fit?

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

The Red Lion rail can be fitted with pic rails. Mine has 2, 4 inch rails and the grip is attached to the bottom one so no mod neccessary :)

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

And it can fold still with this.

[@Saltyems]

Ok cool so it should just fit in place no problem? I'll probably order it this week then thanks a lot

[@primigen]

I've heard bad things about the receiver breaking at the rear locking pin.. how many rounds have you shot through this rifle and do you still own it today?

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

I have seen incidents where that has happened after someone falls directly on the rifle with all their weight. I, personally, have put more that 1500 rounds of very cheap steel case ammo through this rifle and it is holding up just fine! I have also never fell on it but I have dropped it on pavement a few times and it was fine after.

[@TsiRoadkill]

Did you do the paint job on that?

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

Yes sir :)

[@TsiRoadkill]

Thats a nice job. What did you use?

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

DURACOAT

[@antonw-uw4ov]

Are those slanted forend grips some type of "civillian legal" alternative to a vertical grip? You see them all the time in American videos but i just don't get the appeal, never seen one on a military issued rifle.

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

It was the best Cali legal way to keep my hands off the metal which can heat up a bit after fast strings of shooting.

[@goo_rocket5897]

If you put it down you will never find it again.

[@johnL-xk2js]

AR15 weighs 10lbs?

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

With a rail and a normal M16A4 length barrel I would say its close. More tricked out heavy barrel rifles or ones with tons of extras can easily be that weight.

[@920utdoor]

with all that to upgrade a key tec, why not just get an AR?

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

Besides the fact that I lived in Commiefornia at the time and hated the idea of a bullet button, I really like this rifle. I I put about 180 extra into a $500 and painted it myself (with a friends help) so it was not to expensive. It also has no problem with Russian ammo because of the gas piston. It's real light, handly, not great in CQB but I can hit at 650 yards with it so yeah, I just like it :). I shot a CA model and liked it so I picked this up and wasn't dissapointed. I like the idea of building a polymer lowered gas piston AR but I wanted a working mag release! Silly laws in that state.

[@920utdoor]

I've seen nothing but issues with polymer lower, join AR15 builders on fb

[@NoBrakes23]

I bought mine in 2005 right before the Calguns Off List Lower movement started. I have an AR lower now, but I'm not going to even bother building it until I escape the PRK.

[@Schregger]

Take a cheap gun, and add a bunch of parts to it that add up to more than what the gun itself cost... I see this with Glocks, and with Brand name AR-15, and with shotguns like the Rem 870 or Mossy 500. It doesnt make sense, but fuck sense, its your gun, do what you want with it (so long as it doesnt hurt anyone else.) Anyways, I like it.

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

The after market stuff wasn't exactly the same cost of the rifle as I did the paint myself :) but yeah, I always do that! LOL

[@jmp6534]

they told me ship the rifle to them...

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

Did you send it? I was thinking it could be an extractor spring issue.

[@juliogonzo2718]

Sounds like California is like Canada. This is why I have an su not an ar. I just learned a new term today... bullet button. That's even more messed then here.

[@MerantzMP]

Mine is better. Wish I could post a picture.

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

I wish you could too! What is the set up?

[@MerantzMP]

Is there a way to send a personal message on here?

[@MrLedFarmer0331]

@@MerantzMP not that I know of sadly. Maybe if you go to the home page for me?

[@MerantzMP]

Nope.

[@MerantzMP]

Upgrade tec metal pop up sights, vortex 3x magnifier with a eotech dot scope, streamlite laser and streamlite flash lite. Same forward grip as yours, adjustable AR stock and a Probe flash suppressor.