Sub Rogues are actually just more broken in 10.2 (Dragonflight PvP)

[@Lironah]

Thanks for the overview! I went with more of a PVE build, but glancing at yours helping me figure out which important pick I'd missed in my first quick talent allocation.

[@Rich-in6ds]

Seems like the burst rotation is maybe a tiny bit easier now that we don’t take echoing and basically always alternate between builder and spender when shadow blades is up.

[@chrisyates1742]

So a marked for Death and DFA sounds like a huge damage. Also the talent that gives you haste makes a little more sense paired with your passive shadow techniques, maybe that talent with using slice and dice would generate some crazy extra combo points. Seems intriguing!

[@cyborgtemplar1989]

i'd like it more if it just gave attack speed if that's the case. since haste outside that is basically negative value. Unless they rework how much energy it gives to energy based classes.

[@adrianoluccas9012]

Just came back, learned sub rogue and now ill need to learn again...

[@Michal_Emade]

Kidney shot shadowstrike secret technique run like chicken to next kidney shot. Easiest rotation in game.

[@trito1203]

U can only run once vs good player. After your cloak gone u done. A good rogue dont run. Only kite.

[@Michal_Emade]

@@trito1203 You have cloak, dodge, 2x Vanish you can kite almost every opener in duel using just one button.

[@seansammartino9764]

Cunt exactly the same as me fml

[@bapeful8877]

@@Michal_Emadewhat’s your rating on sub rogue this season?

[@periseumaaa]

Where we can find your transmog? :D

[@SkatePvP10]

Finally time for you to make a full 10.2 live guide lol

[@DexaqtEU]

Hey palumor, i thought of some burst aswell and I went with MFD, the way my opener went is: Blades > mfd > kidney > shadowstrike > evis > SOD gore > evis > restun > evis, running 1/2 fina and danse

[@thecoinhustlers]

What is the Big Sword? How can i get it is it Transmog or?

[@RololoTheOneAndOnly]

is there a link for the transmog in the thumbnail? ty!

[@Palumor]

Just rogue tier 3 with Klaxxai tabard!

[@TylerGershowitz]

that aoe kidney will be insane on RBGs you can get every trinket in 1 kidney

[@KapitanObvious]

my opinion useless. Rogue unility in CC and burst. If you try do AoE CC it will be as result semi DH CC who is compare to Rogue its nothing. CC you could use to prevent cast and heals. And you wont be able to play(overplay other classes with CC). Example Pala/Druid/Monk/DH they all have long CC cd. You want make rogue same? Good luck! As Palumor said. For PvE probably good. When you can AoE CC + on same side of talent tree you have AoE skills. With 40 stun you become as simple DPS.

[@CarolinDnB]

bro is onto nothing!! 🗣🔥@@KapitanObvious

[@bmcash09]

thoughts on Assass in the next patch?

[@Palumor]

Might make video on assa ptr soon. Not tons of a changes but it definitely will be more fun.

[@tylergates6367]

Is there a HUGE difference in capabilities between assa and sub right now?

[@johnotanez2746]

hows outlaw looking for pvp after the re work?

[@Palumor]

Just uploaded that right now :) you're in luck

[@greglaycock9405]

Have they fixed the cold blood evis interaction so it makes your shadow damage crit too? Cuz if not then tech is definitely still way better to use cold blood on

[@Palumor]

Not fixed D:

[@PwndersWoW]

Do you think sub or assass will be best in 10.2 for pvp? Primarily rbgs.

[@Slowrollin592]

You made a great video, of all the ones ive seen, yours has been the best explanation. Can you do a assassin build next?

[@eyeswideopen627]

Don't you usually have your rotation scroll on the screen? I miss it? Stay well and thank you.

[@Palumor]

Usually do but this is on PTR no addons!

[@eyeswideopen627]

@@Palumor oh that makes sense. Thank you so much for all your help. And some laughs as well. Stay safe.

[@caicai.angola]

How do you have that xmog? Is it easy to have?

[@emmadiego8876]

Yes just buy it out the ah haha just Costs much

[@Palumor]

Druid tier 3! Black market AH or new crafting t3 system.

[@caicai.angola]

Yes, I know it's druid tier3 but didnt know we could use on Rogue

[@phoenixskyward9972]

I have a question my friend. Thistle Tea is an annoying talent that I am not a big fan of. What is your opinion about it for someone who only wants to focus on dps without having to worry about energy regen.

[@Ethan.58]

I’ve been back about 3 weeks now and want to pvp, is this build good and what realm you on?

[@Palumor]

This is PTR it's not out yet. I'm on Deathwing US

[@ZeroTv_WoW]

Shadowstrike + MFD + Kidney ? that should apply find weaknesses right?

[@Palumor]

Yep! Only problem is to shadowstrike first without a fresh opener you need to dance and the second you dance people will play around peeling you’re damage. Might end up getting disarmed on your whole dance.

[@ZeroTv_WoW]

@@Palumor makes sense, thanks for replying back bro

[@Eldydhdhd]

@@Palumor not if you have subter though. if u have subter, u MfD, kidney, shadowstrike. unless this wont work. i thought i saw u picked subter in ur tree.

[@the_sasukke8776]

Looks good, although the rotation is too complicated compared to the current one, not because of the amount of buttons you use, but because of playing around the finality buff and the 5 gloomblade stacks. Even with all that setup you need 3 cheapshots to kill a leather wearer, compared to the old cold blood + echoing oneshot, cold blood + ST prenerf or the flagellation build from SL, this build you've shown is more "healthy", which is good because it prevents nerfs. Have you tried echoing in 10.2? Blizz removed the nerf and now does 100% damage, maybe does good damage again combined with cold blood. It feels a little clunky to play without vigor because of the nerf to shadow focus and the energy increase from gloomblade and shadowstrike. If Blizz increased the energy cost of gloomblade/stab they should have increased its damage as well, one of the biggest problems with subtlety is that it doesn't do damage outside of shadowdance. I'd like backstab to be relevant again, or receive hemorrhage as a new generator.

[@trito1203]

Wait. Let me do 5 gloomblade before I cheap you.

[@jaypietersen6093]

Dark brew over dance for secret tech, it does phys damage but it is buglffed by anything that affects shadow damage

[@Toxicdragin]

What is that dragon mount 😮

[@seanhan2683]

Is it just me but Rogue was my first class I started playing in WoW but it seems so difficult to understand mechanics of sub rogue now (ass is little bit easier?) . I tried playing back but it’s just too much for me 😅

[@workeveryday8737]

Just practice to get triple stun leaving no gaps. Get used to using gauge on cd. And you are good to go.

[@jacer7303]

@@workeveryday8737dang u should be a coach /s

[@Thorminator87]

yo you never show the rotation in a realistic way. since when does rogues start un-stealthed?

[@Palumor]

Literally every go outside of the opener?

[@thumpthumptv1651]

what?

[@draith1793]

Looking forward to your video about Assassination Rogue 10.2 PvP Rogue Rework...

[@saltedfish8077]

Idk. kinda get a mixed feeling about the changes. there's too much preparation to do before you can cast a good burst.

[@thiev7]

It will be interesting to see how they change this going into live pvp. (Shadowblades my beloved)

[@raymondron8291]

Chanimal was not joking, when he said that retail pvp was beyond trash

[@trito1203]

Can you please try on War with defensive stance and 620k plz. Not the Rogue with 542k. Because we can 1 shot that rogue atm without even use blade. I dont know if its a buff or nerf for the new rework. Deepen shadow only 0.5s per combo point which is big nerf. Sub is fine atm. Only bad one want rework. We dont do alot consistent damage like hunter but we can score kill target.

[@Palumor]

tried on war! still good :)

[@WY6IX-Show]

green outfit for rogue ?!

[@vadyazmey]

Can we have same for Outlaw?❤

[@christianspain3015]

Awesome information, thanks for sharing.

[@petterdayer4241]

when is the carrotstew video coming

[@nickmclean7652]

"This might look insane.." Proceeds to kill something in a cheapshot : - )

[@steve-ok2090]

Would love to see if killing spree is actually viable now!

[@asalentstech1767]

i got fucked up by it earlier today yes it is good still if u set it up right. i wqas on a disc priest and he had me locked up and once killing spreee started it was gg

[@Palumor]

It definitely is not just viable but bis. It shreds people super hard!

[@zayon0170]

right now its done like +38% dmg than intendes, lol

[@BrendanZanitCoen]

Shadow blades change is nutty in pvp wow

[@Julez3133]

holy fuck the shadow teq change is so nice, ive hated it so fucking much for so long, felt so clunky which is why i love sub, subs always felt the smoothest to me, so this shit did not vibe with me, this new way is so good lol. It basically plays the exact same just gives u more choice when to do it.

[@Palumor]

100p agree

[@Immortalis7771]

Its interesting, but I'd like to see you maybe fight a mage or a dot spec like Spriest.

[@Eldydhdhd]

4:44 why not? MfD -> kidney -> shadow strike -> (SoD up) -> maw -> finisher for example, will apply find weakness.

[@Eldydhdhd]

with the current lingering shadow, gloomblade already does 20000 base shadow dmg per hit. now we lose this, instead get 32000 base shadow dmg that's only available once every minute. I doubt this update will turn out as a buff for us.

[@1unbe4T4ble1]

Cool! But what's the point of that much buttons pressed when you are able to do the same by just pressing Killing Spree which is a single target finisher now with the new outlaw spec... It is yet bugged heavily on PTR (insta kills you) but the damage...

[@robusmc1713]

ya secret Tech looked like Insane damage, Thank you for the Update ❤

[@Medjaak]

Hey pal, great vid! Thanks for that. Make an assassination one pls :)

[@luizfelipemelo1098]

Damn bro i missed goremaw, hits hard af

[@droidika7720]

Kidney shot 100% increased cooldown how is that not a pvp pick up omg. Im liking the new talents for sub rogue, the shadow craft will be my pick just nice to build up stack combos endlessly.

[@her0268]

Rogues are most likely to get the Mage treatment. Get reworked/buffed to shit and then in 5 weeks they will get nerfed down by like 30% of the initial release, whether it's damage, utility usefulness or survivability.

[@danielsmith2483]

But mages are still busted?

[@zayon0170]

idk if u saw Kiwi 1shot gimmik you run 2pieces of 10.1 and 2 pieces of 10.2 MFD>Kydney>Dance + shadowstrike (rotten dmg + weakness debuff) then you go like SoD + maw, evis, strike strike or something like that, its just fking busted. add shadowblades + perforated veins ful lstacked... and that Maw is gonna delete

[@BarrBakes]

cant stun the turnip

[@DasMufels]

Maybe i play Sub again in 10.2, gonna try Assa for now

[@Mjansen77]

Yeah thats not getting nerfed at all lol

[@joemartinez6623]

They made sub rogues all sustain and less burst. Your duel was perfect set up making it a sustained burst not a true burst.

[@jj-yv2oh]

Actually?

[@itsBeeman]

Look I made a comment! -ItsBeeMan

[@warlordie6841]

Rogue might actually be fun to play now, and play differently im exited

[@hvdiv17]

on the ptr i with the new shadow blades when you use a combo point generator like cheap shot you can get a 7 point eviscerate then cheap shot,eviscerate,cheap shot,eviscerate,cheap shot,eviscerate for 8 seconds then press shadow dance again rinse and repeat...stun locking is back you can do it for 16 seconds with 2 dances. its about time rogues got some buffs people are going to be whining about rogues when 10.2 goes live non stop when we flood the bgs again like hunters..lol.

[@Palumor]

I am also so happy they removed stun DRs!!! Rogues are back baby

[@Blindsaplol]

Sub rogue + assa rogue new meta inc. I can feel it ;P

[@freshman6561]

I mean it’s clearly gonna get nerfed in PvP by the time the patch releases you do know that right? This video is just garnishing KZbin views before the patch releases and the vid will be useless and misleading. Same with all the other classes that are even more broken than rogue like feral tier set

[@Palumor]

heh hehe heh.... thanks for the free view. right into my viewer trap card. hehehee.e.hee..

[@fancen]

AWESOME SAUCE

[@mildakriksciunaite8614]

Did they nerf the old one shot macro in Arena/Shuffle?? I've tried with and without thistle tea, and both just pops cds, and doesn't run the sequence at all? 😞

[@mgk0586]

I think im coming to the dark side and switching to main sub rogue for the remainder of my wow career.

[@shalev12344]

looks good!

[@Xound_]

Uuuutlaw is my favourite spec 😂

[@evelynn1400]

rogue devs just keeps making macdonalds changes always busted

[@jackblack5907]

Please we need more

[@KyuuStormsoul]

Talking is fine, but it would be instantly better with having a visible cycle of abilities so you don't always have to go back in the video and listen to "Cheap shot, evis, SOD..." etc, a simple diagram would've been great to follow along with

[@Palumor]

I use an addon to show on live but I don’t have addons on PTR. Unforch

[@faucon7817]

you should say Sub Rogues are actually just more broken in "PTR' since it could get nerfed for 10.2

[@Palumor]

Facts

[@Palumor]

Wait actually no, the title says "in 10.2"

[@bosssavage3325]

Compare mount speed sprint to paladin charger 😂

[@BrendanZanitCoen]

Man it feels wrong even if it’s stronger.

[@shady1306]

Expect nerfs in like first week of the patch, for what is worth I would pay to see rogues for once get nerfed to the ground just to give them a real reason to cry for once.

[@Palumor]

Yea I agree I hate rogues!!!!!!!

[@jjaaamm]

"Looks kinda nutts" lul - I just got killed in less than ~2 seconds by a rogue, as a warrior.. 317k Goremaw's Bite

[@joeydes9666]

Ok ok ok I’ll try sub rogue lol

[@Crazyhorrse]

shadowblades like that will nev er see the light of day. There will be too many crying becuase of it

[@synthsupreme]

new macro video soon

[@clunkydoo]

Lol rogues are disgusting okay time to reroll guys

[@overdrive112]

Rogue is unplayable in higher rating unless you have a perfect comp. Rogue in general is trash compared to all plate classes.

[@xavier84623]

Rouges are already op, have always been top teir, and after a new rework before everything is tuned they are going to be so op and there are going to be rouges everywhere 😭

[@edicius9836]

Holy shit... I feel like blizz is just trying to make classes impossible to learn for new people. Imagine getting into WoW nowadays and seeing this monstrosity of a tree and combos and shit ... like dude.. Guess ill stick to Wotlk max - cause even there it became a bit silly but this is just too fucking much. Need to read 50 pages of stuff just to know what you are doing with most classes lol :)

[@dobro5958]

They should start by pruning smokebomb and duel (will not affect precious PVE, I promise). Then put cheapshot on at least 10 sec CD and put kidney shot on 4 sec CD when cheapshot is used and viceversa. Then they can start doing small nerfs to the other utility abilities to bring rogues more in line with the other classes. Instead they are just omegaoverbuffing them... I guess we will all have to reroll rogues to be able to pvp...

[@TankManHeavy]

So effectively you want to remove all usefulness from rogues? Why do all non-rogue players say the most crazy things when referring to rogue balancing

[@BlitzkriegBop1212]

Spoken like a true 1.5 hardstuck

[@dobro5958]

@@BlitzkriegBop1212 dont insult him. Maybe he is a new player, just started to play and doesnt know that rogue is S tier for the last 20 years and PROs easily exploit its over the top arsenal while average players do not. And this is the reason why rogues are treated as other classes when it comes to damage/burst which is nonsense. They should balance around the kit making rogues do negative damage or just prune some abilities which is a good option since, like I said, most people dont even exploit the kit to the full potencial.

[@Palumor]

this is a really good take. thank you for sharing. imo they should just remove kidney shot and make cheap shot 2 seconds. this way rogue cant dmg+stun. they also should remove shadowstep so rogues cant move because they are too fast. also smokebomb+duel easy gone out the window. lastly. rogues should have a talent like glass cannon where they only have 20% of other peoples hp and do negative dmg for taking it.

[@Wxrldend]

when wont rog be best pvp specc in whole WoW ? :D oh wait never cuz they are always faved by blizz

[@justinvitrigal123]

You explained the rotation too complex

[@andershallberg74]

no, it was good explained. git gud

[@Palumor]

Can we always re watch step by step!

[@9lol3ba]

Good to see blizz still honor their legacy in at least one last thing: rogues and mages broken and op since 2004. Good thing Im no longer waste my time to see again how my HP drops to zero in 5 seconds, while my whole team is CCed.

[@TankManHeavy]

Still wasted your time commenting, though.

[@Palumor]

lol typical blizzard!!!!!

[@Fossilzuh]

hope this gets nerfed like ret got nerfed 6 times

[@Palumor]

wtf

[@eugeneg3265]

No one cares about PTR since it gonna get changed by the time it hit live

[@haydengoodwin9321]

YOU’RE TRASHAMORE

[@Machinima5000]

first comment

[@ivanmarkoski682]

fuck it im going into pvp this patch after having a 5 years break. hahhhahaa

[@blushihtzu]

Imagine still playing retail lol

[@Perways]

Imagine playing an mmo on 15 years ago state where everything is known and discovered 😂

[@emmadiego8876]

@@Perways for real

[@Palumor]

lol!@!!