[Subbed] MUNI Metro: San Francisco's Streetcars are more Advanced than Japan's!

[@lohphat]

I've lived through 3 generations of Muni trams. I moved to SF in 1994 when the old white and orange Boeing trams were being phased out for the Breda cars, and I left SF when the Siemens trams were being tested for deployment. The Breda cars were a very expensive mistake -- they were too heavy and caused a lot of street damage and could not be run in a 3 car configuration like the Boeing trams could, so capacity on the N line took a huge hit. Not to mention the SF taxpayer who didn't get 40-50 years of use from them. The new Siemens trams are VERY nice, modern, light, and FAST. The old Breda cars could not reliably run at full speed due to their extra weight.

[@TohaBgood2]

Yep, the Bredas were a mistake that hobbled Muni for 20-30 years. I thank the heavens that they've switched to the new Siemens trains which are apparently 5x (!) more reliable than the Bredas! The Bredas were just a rolling dumpster fire of epic proportions.

[@Markus-r2b3w]

The boeings we're more worse than the bredas, b(o)eing only a very cheap copy of a German duewag Stadtbahn car, espe ially for the electrics (think about , a maker of airplanes cannot wire a Tramcar.💩🧨🎆

[@TohaBgood2]

​@@Markus-r2b3w Well... you're going a bit too far with the Boeing criticism and generalizing a bit too much. First of all it was a Boeing helicopter subsidiary that built those cars, no Boeing proper. And second, that subsidiary had a division that was doing rail manufacturing before that project. So it's not like aerospace engineers from Boeing randomly decided to build rail cars one day. It was a rail subsidiary of Boeing that did. And while they did copy ideas from all kinds of rail equipment from all around the world - the cars themselves were actually pretty innovative and pioneered a bunch of interesting technologies invented in-house. I was a "train of the future" type of thing with all kinds of crazy innovations. Now, the cars did prove unreliable and Boeing was keen on offloading that rail manufacturing division of that subsidiary. So they never fixed the issues and moved on, leaving Muni and the MBTA with dud trains.

[@exhaustmedia3800]

Awesome video! San Fransisco has a rail system that we in Los Angeles are really envious of. Muni Metro has nice infrastructure. By the way would you ever consider creating a video on the Los Angeles Metro rail system? it has a really complex and interesting history that's not often talked about.

[@NozomuYume]

LA honestly has better infrastructure along many of the rail lines that serve the city, the problem is LA is a much larger city and doesn't have near the coverage it needs to have.

[@japaneserailwaybytakagirailway]

Thank you for your comment. I'm Japanese and I took this video of MUNI Metro when I was traveling in the US. I don't go to the US often, but I thought I'd try to make a video of the Los Angeles Metro Rail System.

[@wonderstruck.]

In the 1900s, LA used to have the biggest electric rail network in the world! A pride that LA has now forgotten.

[@lalakerspro]

@@NozomuYume If the coverage isnt as good, that doesnt make it better lol

[@Neville60001]

@@wonderstruck., L.A. got (and is getting) it back, hasn't it? What's the sense of crying over past mistakes now?

[@stevens1041]

Muni Metro is okay. It could be vastly improved with some small engineering upgrades (eg. very short tunneling below only a few major boulevards/intersections). That said, it is a lot better than it was 30 years ago. I'm glad you enjoy it, because I enjoy Muni Metro a lot too.

[@Yvonne-Bella]

I need to tell you that - as appreciative as it is to see BART in the video - it is a complete separate entity from Muni. And deserves its own video as its functionalities and fares are vastly different from Muni. Yeah, i know they work in tandem, but they aint the same.

[@leroyybrown]

That’s a very impressive tour of San Francisco’s streetcar network. Good job.

[@HugoBrown]

Very cool , I love the retro vehicles. What I noticed compared to Australia the rail vehicles in Sanfrancisco and USA are really bulky and big. I definetly enjoyed the video and will subscribe

[@TohaBgood2]

This is primarily because Muni Metro is a hybrid light rail/light metro system, so their light rail vehicles have to be able to serve as level boarding metro trains in the subway sections. Under downtown SF Muni Metro runs exclusively in subways with only the vintage streetcars and cable cars being allowed to run on the surface. The European versions of the Siemens S200 vehicles that they use are rated to run in mixed freight traffic on suburban routes in Europe. They're real "big boy" metro trains that can also run as light rail vehicles/trams when they need to, rather than the other way around. Makes for a very interesting system.

[@HugoBrown]

@@TohaBgood2 thanks for the explanation appreciate it.

[@stevevaccaro1645]

Market St Railway, runs the E (suspended in 2020 due to covid and not operational now) and F lines. They procured a tram from Melbourne which is run as part of the fleet, but rarely. Also part of the fleet is a Hiroshima streetcar, also run infrequently. Most of the PCC cars you see were originally operated by Muni on it's 5 lines up until the Metro subway began service in 1982. They were stored on a pier on the waterfront and then rehabilitated and painted in various US cities liveries.

[@ScenicWalk]

Congratulations on the video, it was excellent, San Francisco is a wonderful city, I hope to visit one day. I started a channel here on KZbin recently and record in the same way here in Brazil. I signed up, I will follow you from now on. A big hug !!!🙂

[@kyyyuwu]

Thank you for visiting us!! If you're curious on why trains on the N and T always stop right before entering the underground section, it's because the train needs to connect to the ATCS system. All trains in the underground section run automatically, Operators only control doors in the subway portion :)

[@wonderstruck.]

And the L train from Embarcadero to the SF Zoo will resume service in a couple weeks on Sept. 28!

[@davidgarrison8053]

The L Taraval line is running again after a 4-year complete re-do so come back and do an update.

[@daveland3183]

Ah good memories of riding the N-Judah to the starting line of the Bay to Breakers.

[@martinsto8190]

the F line runs along the J during mourning communtes or trainning sessions for new operators. edit: so it is possible to get on a streetcar at balboa park and ride it to fisherman's wharf without transfers.

[@ivanoffw]

It would be nice if Muni brought back rail service on the routes that didn't have dedicated right-of-way, except of course the routes that were only ever cable car.

[@qjtvaddict]

Nahh buses good enough

[@zhongmanzhang1925]

Nice! Really liked your japan reail video! Welecome to sf!

[@eottoe2001]

Yes, they are. I just got back from Amsterdam, we may be doing some things better in the States than we think we are particularly with accessibility.

[@ElCamionero]

The crowd boarding at the beach look to be Bay-to-Breakers veterans.

[@IndustrialParrot2816]

Something interesting the City I live in (Seattle) just surpassed San Francisco's population so we are a little bit larger (Seattle is a Port City located on an Isthmus between the Puget Sound and Lake Washington in the State of Washington and is 670 Miles or 1100 Kilometers North of San Francisco) we have a Subway line that Runs from Angle Lake to Lynnwood it's similar to both Muni Metro and BART but it Currently only runs as a Single line until the Bridge connection to link Seattle and Bellevue across the lake is Completely, we also have a Pair of Streetcars, 14 Trolley bus routes, 8 Bus Rapid Transit lines, and 2 Rush hour commuter Rail lines, although all of those Numbers are set to change since the City has a Massive Transportation plan it's working on to more than Triple the size of the Transit system and because of that the Lynnwood Extension and G line both opened within the last Month we have projects stretching out to 2045 in order to handle the massive growth of the City and the entire Metro area is set to more than double in population by 2050

[@richardscathouse]

There seems to be plenty of room. Only the people are missing 😢

[@IndustrialParrot2816]

@@richardscathouse what are you talking about???

[@motroman1]

The map is incomplete. You left out the “L” Taraval Muni line which serves the Sunset District and travels to the Zoo and ocean beach.

[@richardscathouse]

Looks like they did too 😢

[@RaymondHng]

10:29 This is not the "mountain section" of the N line. It is the Noe Hill right of way of the J Church line above Dolores Park

[@richardscathouse]

Who stole the fog?

[@3ClicksAndTheTruth]

Clinate Engineering > it's a conspiracy FACT! > & the few times the fog actually makes it into Oakland & the East Bay...the ground remains dry > whatever fog they're making has very little/no moisture in it > Kudos to the handful of States who have recently enacted legislation addressing an anti Climate Engineering Agenda > Tennessee for 1 > the others are in neighboring mid West Regions > NewSCUM & Ilk would never effectively address egregious crimes such as Climate Engineering. As for SF's public transportation system... saying it's more advanced, let alone better compared to Japan has gotta be a clickbait joke > expensive & smells like a garbage dump .... please .... California in general has regressed so much over the last 3 Decades + > #Calpocylpse

[@3ClicksAndTheTruth]

Clinate Engineering > it's a conspiracy FACT! > & the few times the fog actually makes it into Oakland & the East Bay...the ground remains dry > whatever fog they're making has very little/no moisture in it > Kudos to the handful of States who have recently enacted legislation addressing an anti Climate Engineering Agenda > Tennessee for 1 > the others are in neighboring mid West Regions > NewSCUM & Ilk would never effectively address egregious crimes such as Climate Engineering

[@chromebomb]

coool!

[@PatrickDoyle-gt9kd]

Does anyone know that song played in the video?

[@japaneserailwaybytakagirailway]

Thank you for your comment. In order of use: SUMMER TRIANGLE kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZy0mpt8fc6KqpI BGM9_Mixdown kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqvCpIaZZduWZrs On the Night when It all Ends kzbin.info/www/bejne/jHqyYXh4m8and5I

[@baronjutter]

I like how you call the hills of the bay area "mountains" :)

[@brianng2951]

I actually found Japan’s railway is much better in terms of timeliness, cleanliness , quality of passengers etc…

[@lalakerspro]

japan's railway is better than any in the world, but muni metro does it's job. And muni is usually clean and on time. Japan is a homogenous society, hence the quality of passengers

[@danielwae5380]

Anyone claims SF or any other place has better transportation than Japan is delusional. Especially SF OR NYC. The smell alone makes it hard to beat Japan. I can’t remember when the last time muni is free of funny smell in the air

[@lalakerspro]

@@danielwae5380 The guy who made the video is japanese, ill take his word over yours

[@qjtvaddict]

They replaced most of their trams with metros running regional trains

[@Teegopoopy]

@@lalakersproIts not about homogenous society, its because everyone there is high iq, like singapore

[@bestchannelintheworld]

Clickbait title - Japan got rid of almost all its tram systems long ago, and the ones remaining are more of a unique tourist attraction rather than a real mode of transportation, similar to Trondheim with its short tram line.

[@lalakerspro]

Muni metro isnt really a tram, it is light rail/subway, and it is definitely used as a real mode of transport. SF also has tourist trolleys.

[@qjtvaddict]

Exactly

[@qjtvaddict]

@@lalakersproit’s a tram stop lying to yourself

[@lalakerspro]

@@qjtvaddict No, its a light rail/subway. As someone who lives in the bay area and rides them I know.

[@acakeyboi4345]

It’s a mix between the old streetcar system and a newer subway-like system is what I would describe it as.

[@SRTetsuchan001]

日本版の動画から

[@victordohleman953]

How is San Fran these days? I have not visited in many years maybe 5 years I heard its not the same?

[@richardscathouse]

Looks like Cyberpunk meets deadzone

[@TohaBgood2]

@@richardscathouse Lol, bullcrap. SF looks cleaner than pre-pandemic now. the city has been doing aggressive cleanups since the Supreme Court allowed clearing of encampments.

[@youmightnotknowme9861]

if you like this, you should definetly have a look at Stutttgart Germany

[@iwoodbustanut7380]

well I mean Japan wouldn't even need "advanced streetcars" if they have a city like San Francisco, cuz at that point they would've already built a proper heavy-duty subway system, or at least a comprehensive regional railway. Just look at Okayama, a city less populous than SF yet being served by three systems, two of which being grade-separated heavy railways

[@Aroncsik]

Muni metro is decent but the N line is embarrassingly empty; new tracks, stations, and signaling are badly needed

[@richardscathouse]

$3 when I lived in SF fare was a Quarter! Small wonder no one is riding. 😢

[@stevevaccaro1645]

Transit ridership in a lot of large US cities has declined, first from covid and now from "work at home". Still nearly 500K people a day ride Muni out of a current population of 800K+. $3 is the cash price. Most of us use a Clipper Card and tap on to a reader when going through fare gates or boarding on the street, which deducts a slightly discounted fare. Under 18 and seniors on low incomes pay nothing. Senior fare is $1. 25 cent fares were decades ago.

[@Orlando_Rails]

0:27 I really like these Breda but the retired them. I really don't like the new ones, because the seats are just very bad, and the old one has seen in this frame had nice seats and they just seemed nicer.

[@qjtvaddict]

Sorry but muni outside of the central subway and market st line is hot garbage

[@alexcarrillo5510]

yes it is - when was the last time when you walk inside the Powell street station? both Mezzanine & Platform section?? And let's not FORGET in the way when Civic Center station Mezzanine when it was fill with low life drug users, and Mayor Lee & Breed DID NOT do anything, and let's not the SFMTA Asshole that CUT about most of the MUNI ROUTES? And it is not Garbage? Sign-An SF Native born in 1956 at the Persidio

[@TohaBgood2]

Good thing that most people ride it precisely in the Central Subway and Market/twin Peaks tunnels then.

[@qjtvaddict]

@@TohaBgood2exactly!!!!!

[@TohaBgood2]

@@qjtvaddict Yes, the vast majority of Muni Metro riders ride it on the metro sections. So from their point of view Muni Metro is in fact just a metro with weird spurs in the suburbs that they never take and don't care about.

[@theexcaliburone5933]

If you think this is advanced you should look at any city in Germany

[@TohaBgood2]

You do realize that Muni Metro is a German-style Stadtbahn system, right? It's literally German type of hybrid light metro that you see all over Germany.

[@theexcaliburone5933]

@@TohaBgood2 *you* do realize that MUNI is substantially smaller, slower, and less frequent than those German systems right? And that it has horrible station design and very poor surrounding pedestrian infrastructure? And that similarly sized German cities’ S-Bahns are usually way better (frequency and stop spacing wise) that BART?

[@TohaBgood2]

@@theexcaliburone5933 Lol, in what universe? Muni Metro has 6 lines for 850k people. that's an insane line density and there probably isn't any Stadtbahn that matches that level of service. BART has a higher top and average speed than almost every single S-bahn. It's fully grade separated and automated unlike any German S-bahn. And BART has 10 minute frequencies on all branches but one where it runs at 20 minute frequencies. Pretty mush all S-bahns have only 30 minute frequencies as standard on thier branches. Both BART and Muni Metro are actually a bit over powered to be considered true Stadtbahns and S-bahns. They're just a bit too good.

[@theexcaliburone5933]

@@TohaBgood2 the city of San Fransisco’s borders are arbitrary, one should go by metropolitan statistical area when comparing cities. San Fansisco metro area is 7.7M, MUNI track length is 71. Stuttgart (as the first example to come to mind), metro area is 5.4M, its Statbahn trackage is 160 miles. So that’s quite a bit more trackage. MUNI makes horrible use of one of its tunnels, with as bad as 12 minute frequencies during the day; Stuttgart has 2 minute frequencies in its center city tunneled sections. BART's track length is 131 miles, Stuttgart's S-bahn's is 134, and in addition to that, Stuttgart has 33 more stations. BART does have a much higher average speed, but this is offset by the low density of the city overall, leading to there being fewer destinations per time spent travelling. Additionally, grade separation does lend BART a slight advantage, though really grade separations are more car infrastructure than anything else, and the portions of German S-bahn systems with high enough frequencies to need grade separation are grade seperated. I totally agree that automation is a big leg up for BART (also only possible because of grade separation), but the fact is that BART still can only run 24 TPH on their central tunnel. I couldn't find numbers for Stuttgart with a quick google, but I'm sure it isn't worse and they don't have automation and full grade separation to help them. This isn't even mentioning other regional services. You can't even compare RegionalBahn to CalTrain, or the ICE to the Coast Starlight. And every German city is like this; we really, really need to up our game in the US

[@joehacker6412]

@@TohaBgood2 numbers, please :)

[@tomc878]

that's laughable at best😂😂😂having a big long trolley running thru tight neighborhood streets is bad planning and choice, creating traffic jams.

[@stevevaccaro1645]

Muni's first streetcar line began in 1918. San Francisco has had a transit first policy since the 1970's. Auto drivers have to share the roads, not just with Muni's streetcars, but with cyclists (bike and motor), scooters, electric bikes etc. Drivers often create their own traffic jams. Younger people moving here often do not bring a car with them. Just about everyone in SF is within 3 blocks of a transit line.

[@13attr]

very noisy

[@spekterum]

SAYS WHO????

[@TohaBgood2]

Someone who lives in Japan?

[@amirism91]

china is way advanced than this

[@braedonallen4291]

It also has nothing nearly as old. Most of this system was built 90 years ago, or, in the case of the PCC streetcar line, over 120 years ago.

[@RaymondHng]

@@braedonallen4291 The Market Street two-level subway tunnel that carries Muni Metro and BART trains started construction in 1967, fifty-seven years ago. The BART-level tunnel opened in 1973. The Muni Metro-level tunnel opened in 1980. The PCC streetcars were first constructed in 1935. The J Church line opened in 1917.

[@lalakerspro]

China uses slave labor to build the trains

[@stevens1041]

I remember back in 1988, China had only two subway systems in the entire country. China is so late to every technology, in some cases over 100 years plus late.

[@qjtvaddict]

Newer and better government

[@orlandoracer407]

4:17 I never understood the purpose of having a long station platform for a 2 car tram just so you have to chase it down when it stops at the end 🚋🚋 🏃🏾‍♂️

[@BenPease-qq2jp]

Back in the early days of the Muni Metro subway, the Boeing cars ran in 4-car trains, using most of the platform (but still 1-2 carlengths shorter). But there was a long delay to couple and uncouple the trains into their respective lines at West Portal (fine, you're at a platform) and at the N-J junction (stuck halfway in the tunnel entrance at an angle). So now, 2-car trains way at the front, and yes it's a bit weird. (shorter BART trains stop in the center). Weirder is 3 downtown MUNI Metro stations share the same elevator as BART (toward the Ferry Building end of the station), so wheelchair users and folks who can't use the stairs and elevators have to walk 3 train lengths along the platform, then 3-4 train lengths along a utility corridor, past all the fans and ventilation shafts and speeding trains, to get from the "finished" platform to the elevator. Even though an early "fully" accessible transit system, this aspect of the stations was poorly thought out - go in through the loading dock or service/servants entrance.