'Submission', by Michel Houellebecq - A Review

[@IvanTheHeathen]

TO ALL WHO SEE THIS: I mentioned doing a deeper analysis of _Submission_ over the course of a few videos once I am more familiar with some of the French poets and writers that Houellebecq references. Would anyone be interested in seeing that?

[@phildarby5031]

Yes I would. I read the book when it came out and it's been on my mind constantly for the last couple of weeks for various reasons.. Thanks for this nuanced review.

[@Nnamwerd]

Yes!

[@thomaskember4628]

What struck me about the ending of Submission was the parallel with the ending of 1984. In both, the protagonist comes to the point where he accepts the prevailing oppressive political situation and finds that he, after all the trials he has been through, he agrees with it.

[@IvanTheHeathen]

That’s an excellent comparison. In both of those cases, the acquiescence in the face of the terrible situation came thanks to a deep seated instinct. In Winston’s case in _1984,_ that instinct was fear; in Francois’ case in _Submission,_ the instinct was the desire for sex and status. Now that I think of it, you could almost say that Houellebecq was trying to fuse Orwell and Huxley, since people in _Brave New World_ are controlled through the administration of pleasure.

[@mjhmn]

excellent excellent analysis --- you tie the book with current events in such a crisp and clean manner

[@jacobmedina5792]

This review was what really inspired me to read more Houellebecq. Atomized was a fantastic intro point, but Submission was such a good way to build upon those previous themes. For years I had waited to watch this before I got the novel. Thanks for making this.

[@stiankj]

I think 'Submission' is satire. Dark comedy at it's best. Don't forget - it's just a novel. Don't take it too seriously :)

[@destroydate7887]

Does any one pick up the humor of Michel Houellebecq ?

[@duncan_xyz]

He is a master of dark comedy. I laughed out loud numerous times while reading The Elementary Particles

[@martyinsumatra]

Really enjoyed listening to your analysis.

[@IvanTheHeathen]

Thank you, Martin. I mentioned making more videos about _Submission_ in which I go over the book in more detail, since there's so much to say about it. I'm trying to get a sense of whether anyone would be interested in that. Would you be?

[@martyinsumatra]

Absolutely, I've not read the book myself but having heard your general analysis of the content, it is a reflective metaphor for what is currently going on in not just Europe, but the entire Western world as a whole. I feel that we are rapidly approaching a point where something is going to have to give, there is a quiet resentment among the non metropolitan demographic of the UK, I can't speak for the rest of Europe, but what I see is very disturbing.

[@blondie7341]

​@@martyinsumatrait's 2024.... what do you see now... after George Galloway's by-election victory on the muslim vote. The cards are falling now

[@nysq]

Love your photo in the background of Taras Shevchenko! Not ukrainian, but admiring him a lot...

[@hisalexness8478]

I was curious about this novel, having heard about it. Your video is really excellent! Very interesting indeed

[@tadm123]

I really need to read that book "The Triumph of Faith: Why the World Is More Religious than Ever". It makes a lot of surprisingly claims that go directly against the stories that I'd taken as fact these past couple of years. Gives me some hope for the future.

[@joostvandegoor150]

I have read this book twice now, but have certainly inspired me to read it a third time. I loved your talk very much. You captured the soul of the book, I would say.

[@IvanTheHeathen]

Thank you.

[@sugminpurjo2]

Thanks! This will be next on my reading list!

[@IvanTheHeathen]

You're welcome. Enjoy! :)

[@sugminpurjo2]

Just finished reading it. Damn! You weren't kidding! Funny(?) story: There's a passage towards the end with a dialogue about "The Story of O" by Dominique Aury. That story has given rise to a symbolic ring - an O-ring - that a former leader of the social democratic party of Sweden has been seen wearing [1]. Ironically she's also seen as the biggest Islamic apologists in the country [2]. [1] gothbarbie.se/sexualitet-2/2012/bdsm-mona/ [2] www.svd.se/sahlin-stottar-forslag-om-jihadisthjalp

[@Mumon010]

Good review of the book, but your own observations re the current state of affairs are much appreciated.

[@Mlreau]

Nobody else in his class today. Its true despair is submission. Only monsters will not.

[@aceofbejs]

Thank you Ivan.

[@IvanTheHeathen]

You're very welcome, Lukáš.

[@lastunctives2095]

Hope you do part 2 very good review. Never read it myself but did get through ,4 of the others.

[@Alex_Tremist]

IIRC the character does NOT convert to islam at the end of the book ! He describes his conversion in the conditionnal tense ; it's never revealed whether he converts or not.

[@Mr.Altavoz]

Great review, thanks!

[@lastunctives2095]

Just getting in to your intro looking good , Know JK Husymans .

[@handianus]

What would you call your hair color? I just noticed you have almost the same hair color as me. Dirty blonde? light brown? I know my Swedish grandmother called it Cendré-blonde but I don't know if anyone describes it as such today. Here in Sweden I wouldn't exactly call myself simply "blonde".

[@handianus]

I think it's a good haircut by the way

[@IvanTheHeathen]

It's kind of a dark blonde or dirty blonde, I guess. It's too light to be brown, but too dark to be what I think of as standard blonde. I'm Ukrainian, so maybe I have some very distant Swedish Viking ancestry that would explain the similarity in color. When I was little, I used to have platinum blonde hair - almost white. It got darker as I got older.

[@handianus]

Yes it does grow darker with age, my father had the same color hair as me when he was in his 20s, but later in his life it is now a medium or dark brown. My grandmother had real bright blonde for several decades I think, meanwhile my mother was a sort of chestnut color.

[@natashalena7571]

How old are you? Am no asking as an insult...quite the opposite & I heve juste watched your video regarding Donald Trump's foolish misteke in Syria(needless to say, I agreed with many points); Please forgive if ma English is no parfait.

[@IvanTheHeathen]

I'm 25. Why do you ask?

[@natashalena7571]

You are very wise beyond yours years( this is why I asked;) Do you speak French? If you do....I could link you to interviews of Houellebecq, where he mentions that if he were to rewrite his book at this moment in time(after all the terror attacks which heve heppen in France &other parts of the World..)That he would actuallie write a book with far worse implications; In fact he suggests that anyone who enjoyed his book "Submission", should then read the book "2084: The End Of The World" by Boualem Sansal.....Which describes juste where he see's the faith of Mankind heading, if things do No change. I think you would Really enjoy such a book. I hope ma earlier comment did no embarrass you....Good Luck with ur channel.💜 (Here is the link for the book...Enjoy!) www.amazon.com/2084-End-World-Boualem-Sansal/dp/1609453662

[@natashalena7571]

If I may suggest a few other books you may enjoy along with the one I suggested in ma earlier comment( "2084: The End Of The World"...which I've alreadie given you the link for;) Here is a list of other thought provoking books which will most definitelie wet your appetite for Knowledge & Truth: "Reflections On The Revolution in Europe" by Christopher Caldwell, "The Demon in Democracy" by Ryszard Legutko", "While Europe Slept" by Bruce Bawer & last, this book is from an American Italian woman... A Best Seller that shock Europe& was the cause of many debates bc of the dark truths she brings to the page, "The Rage & Pride" by Oriana Fallaci (These book's of hers heve 3 parts but can in fact be read as stand alones, the 3rd part is no yet translated to English but the 2nd "Force & Reason" is available in English.) I hope all these books I heve suggested intrigue & perhaps inspire you....Perhaps you shall even express ur views on each after reading them, if is ur wish to do so, naturallie; Either Way, Am pleased to heve share them with you....Bless you Brother.💜 Here are the links: 1st link: www.amazon.com/gp/product/0307276759/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER 2nd link: www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594038635/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER 3rd link: www.amazon.com/gp/product/0767920058/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER 4th link: www.amazon.com/Rage-Pride-Oriana-Fallaci/dp/0847825043/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1491741057&sr=1-1&keywords=The+rage+and+the+pride (All these books were written after the year 2000 & all of them directlie inspired by World Events)

[@IvanTheHeathen]

Thank you for the book recommendations, Natasha. I already knew about all of them, other than '2084,' so thank you for suggesting that. Oriana Fallaci in particular got into great trouble for her criticisms of Islam. If I remember correctly, she said something about how every self-respecting woman is disgusted by the thought of being with an Arab man. Ordeals like hers make me happy to live in America. We have constitutionally protected free speech here, and though people do try to restrict so-called "hate speech" in America, it is nowhere near as frequent or as serious as in Europe. Unfortunately, I don't speak French. If I did, I would like to be able to read this book by Eric Zemmour called _Le Suicide Français,_ which also complains about Third World and Muslim immigration to France and observes the general decline of French society. Have you read it? It apparently was also quite controversial at the time of its publication in France. www.amazon.com/suicide-francais-quarante-annees-Bestseller/dp/2226254757/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1491778018&sr=1-1&keywords=le+suicide+francaise There's another book about the situation with Muslims in Britain called "Londonistan" that was recommended to me years ago by a British girl that I used to go out with years ago. www.amazon.com/Londonistan-Melanie-Phillips/dp/1594031975/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1491778463&sr=1-1&keywords=londonistan+by+melanie+phillips

[@sscb1]

Sorry, but "God" is not an improvement over "I don't know." A bogus explanation is worse than no explanation.

[@IvanTheHeathen]

I don't know what this statement means. Why don't you explain what you mean by "God" and what you think God is. I strongly suspect that what you're thinking of and what I have in mind have virtually nothing to do with one another.

[@sscb1]

What I mean by "God" is a theistic god. You said that you suppose god can reap miracles so I assume you are a theist. If you are bothered by an incomplete explanation of reality I don't see how it's productive to tie off the loose ends with whatever sky fairy you happen to come up with.

[@IvanTheHeathen]

You haven't answered my question. Try not to use the word "god" when giving an explanation of what you have in mind. You're not actually giving me any kind of definition here, as far as I can tell. There's actually a crucial ontological difference between "God" and "a god," and this point is easily apt to become confused. I suspect that you think that "God" is just a member of a class of entities called "gods," but that's not what I mean by "God" at all. But I'd rather hear it from the horse's mouth, so let's try this again: What are you talking about when you speak of "God"? I'd like a definition, please.

[@sscb1]

Supernatural creator that preforms miracles.

[@IvanTheHeathen]

That's not very precise and it's not what I would have said - at least, not without a lot of clarification. But alright. For the sake of argument, let's go with that. Now, what do you mean by "supernatural"? I suppose that you mean something like, "standing 'outside' of nature, or that upon which nature is contingent"? There are a lot of assumptions hidden in what you said about God allegedly not being a good explanation for anything - assumptions about what "explanations" are or what sorts of things count as explanations, assumptions about what causality is like, etc. All of these will have to be fleshed out before you can even understand what I mean by "God" and what it means to say that God is (or is not) an explanation for something. I made a very long video in which I explain and go over in great detail exactly what the great metaphysical traditions - transcending all sorts of religious or confessional boundaries - have meant by the term "God". Hint: it has absolutely nothing to do with "sky fairies," the sky, old men in the clouds, or even objects or entities of any kind that can be placed in a class. "God" is not a proper name that picks out some particular entity in a class of objects called "gods". God is not just one among many. God is not "a" thing. God is not "a" being (except in an analogical sense). It would be better to say that He _is_ Being. And it's precisely because God is not "a" thing among many, but instead the non-contingent, non-composite source of being itself, that he _can_ serve as an ultimate explanation for existence. You and I are not talking about the same thing when we use the word "God." Nearly all atheists are completely ignorant of classical theology and its conception of God - which has historically been the dominant way of thinking about the divine in all of the metaphysical traditions of all developed and mature religions - and so they don't really know what it is that they're denying the existence of. In fairness, though, these days, most theists don't know anything about classical theology either.

[@lastunctives2095]

Houellebecq's view of Christians totally naive facile, but so is most Christians view of Jesus. The devil who is Yahweh loves this kind of ending , Devil's world , Devils rules.

[@OtherSideOfTheVoid]

i think this is a brilliant book about the only logical spiritual choice the west has if it is to remain a superpower, converting to islam. i think conversion to islam for all westerners will ultimately make the west the best again and i think houellebecq knows this. one of the most forward thinking and pro islam books i have ever read.....extraordinary.

[@IvanTheHeathen]

This is one of those comments that's as likely to be a case of trolling as it is to be serious. I didn't read Houellebecq that way at all. France converted to Islam at the end of his book out of boredom and nihilism, and because it was essentially bribed into doing so, not out of any desire for strength, or even any expectation of getting it. There's no indication whatsoever that Europe is on a path to rebirth at the end of the book. Instead, it goes out with a whimper. It converts to Islam, and in so doing, it dies. I never got the impression that Houellebecq was pro-Islam. Rather, he was making a half-cynical, half-wistful commentary on the pervasive metaphysical bordedom of contemporary French society.

[@OtherSideOfTheVoid]

Yeah and islam is posited as the solution to that boredom, a boredom born out of extreme decadence, and immorality. i read this book because of the the controversy surrounding it as i haven't been into houellebecq for a while... he has always documented the irony of life as a funny and strangely satirical means of progression towards something better and this book is no different. Submission is THE MOST pro-islam book i have EVER read.

[@IvanTheHeathen]

Again, I didn't get the impression that Houellebecq posited Islam as "the solution" to anything. It seemed to me like he was trying to say something more nuanced than that. It was more like he was simply acquiescing in the face of a stronger force - not necessarily saying that Islam would be "better" for the West, but just that it was ascendant, and that the West didn't have the energy or self-confidence to do anything about it. His message seemed to me to be more like, "This is the new reality. Maybe it will end well, and maybe it won't, but this is just what's in front of us now." But I have never read anything else by Houellebecq, so I don't know anything about whether a strange and satirical progression toward something better is a running theme in his work.

[@OtherSideOfTheVoid]

In his books people always end up in a place that to them is the least expected and yet is also something which is subtly beckoning them via the inevitable. the key to his work is that he places progress and the inevitable as one and the same. submission is no different and is as such pro islam. the people who think this is an islamophobic book have got it completely wrong, he is saying it is the only plausible and happy alternative to the gross iniquity of permissive nihilism, which might I add was established BY the medieval northern european churches through their ambivalent attitude towards all forms of iniquity and their insistence upon barbaric monarchical regimes of power that seeked to punish and not remedy the suffering of their people. the conversion is not THROUGH nihilism and boredom, it is the PARADOXICAL solution to those problems. As for Christianity, let us not forget that it's fate as a mass religion was sealed with the words etched above the entrance to Auschwitz, which was of course, the culmination of the Church in the Western world.

[@IvanTheHeathen]

Again, I just disagree with how you're reading the book. I didn't see a pro-Islam message. The book wasn't anti-Islam, but it wasn't pro-Islam either, and the need to simplistically pigeonhole the book into one or the other compartment blinds people to seeing what Houellebecq is really trying to say. Put bluntly: if Houellebecq were really pro-Islam, he would have converted by now, and he hasn't. As I said at the end of my review, the main character converts to Islam because it offers him a job, social status and pussy. This is far from any kind of spiritual transformation or revitalization, and it's hard for me to see how anyone could have come away with the impression that it was. Houellebecq was saying that true spiritual transformations are no longer possible for us in the West, and that to win, Islam must appeal to our coarsened nihilistic and materialistic sensibilities. Of course if any religion seems poised to rise in the West, it's going to be the religion that promises an eternity of blissful sex with one's own personal harem of women. What other religion could it be? In every interview with Houellebecq that I've watched where he discusses 'Submission', he always says that he doesn't really have any kind of moral or message. He's simply painting what he thinks is a likely and realistic picture of the future. But your reading of history is even more suspect than your reading of Houellebecq's novel. Auschwitz is the culmination of Christianity? Christianity - the religion that produced the Peace of God movement, which finally began restraining the violent urges of medieval knights to destroy and plunder unsuspecting peasants for fun; the religion that produced groups like the Quakers, which were staunch pacifists; the religion that told us to turn the other cheek - _that religion_ supposedly culminates in Auschwitz? _Suuuure._ And the European monarchies were distinguished by the relative mildness with which they treated their subjects, as compared to, say, the Chinese monarchy. There were bad and tyrannical kings in Europe, to be sure, but on the whole, taxation was lower than outside of Western Europe, rights to property were relatively secure, and due to the small size of many European kingdoms, states and principalities - like the Italian city- states or large parts of the Netherlands - it was relatively easy for people who felt put upon to leave and go somewhere else. Since productive people could easily leave, this encouraged most kings to tax at low rates and not be too heavy-handed. This is one of the major reasons why Europe would eventually become so rich.

[@nickolette22]

Oh wow, it took me half the video to realize this is bullshit