Path of Exile Guide: Damage Over Time (Ignite, Poison, etc)

[@LocalIdentity1]

Something maybe worth mentioning too is that all DoT effects in the game have an absolute maximum amount of DPS they can do. This value of 35.8 mil DPS is the maximum value that a mob can take from all sources of damage over time. This may not be relevant for many people but those who play in a group can hit this cap quite easily when running with an aura bot and curse bot. We’re working on including this cap into the next PoB update

[@Eliotthib]

In PoB added chaos scales poison. Am I not understanding something or is PoB scaling poison wrong?

[@miturtow]

@@Eliotthib added chaos should scale poison the same way added physical does. Poison deals 30% of combined physical and chaos damage of the _base_ damage, that added damage modifies before the hit occurs

[@austin8313]

I started playing POE for the first time this league! I've tried it before but couldn't get into it due to it's steep learning curve. Your videos have helped me so much and I now have two characters that are doing T12 ish maps! Thanks a bunch man

[@arjunratnadev]

I'm trying really hard this league to enjoy this game after about nearly 3.16

[@Dahbomb88]

Great series, I am thoroughly enjoying these tutorials (even though I already know most of it, it's easy to send these videos to a new person)!

[@DrQuestern]

You've been making THE best Poe content on youtube recently, your charisma and presentation style are exceptional. I really hope what with these *almost* daily uploads algorithm will pick it up and more people will see it. This amount of informational/educational videos on a league start would be a blessing. Thanks for what you are doing!

[@KeyboardWario]

Subtractems mom is a doctor?

[@mykalbuckner1981]

That was one of the best educational videos ive seen for poe.

[@revanbane]

I love these tutorial videos, thank you for making PoE approachable to new players!

[@TheVictor003]

Before listening to subtractem, I had no life. I was a loser. I had zdps builds and was living in my mom's basement running Chain Hook CWDT Frostbolt Pathfinders. Now I sip PoB juice with a side of DPS every day. I one-shot Uber Siruses in Maven-witnessed release-all Cortexes. Now I steamroll all endgame content, live in a mansion, and drive a McLaren 720s. Thank you Mr. subtractem 🙏

[@AintNoJustice]

Keep coming back to this , thanks!

[@Morph9899]

Very good stuff! After 3500 hours and trying a poison build, this really helped me understand how poison functioned.

[@dave5991]

Learning more every time i study these lessons.Thank you.

[@Steven-gc2pm]

A someday guide on damage conversion would be super cool 😎 👍 Fantastic video, love what you do!

[@SIMPathyYT]

Second this, makes sense to scale base damage into primary element that double dips from the stacked conversion into a second set of elemental dmg stack.

[@JTD472]

Best streamer/content creator in the game. Another good idea for a video

[@robertstrickland2184]

Very good, thank you. I've tried POE a few times in the past... but lately, it has seemed to stick, and i think it is because of informative videos like this one.

[@chrisleidag1670]

Thx, first time someone explained poison and I understood it👍😁

[@ИванБалашов-г8к]

Now THIS series is priceless!!! Thanks a ton for all the work and effort, theese videos help a ton!!)

[@bineata]

In regards to snapshots, you could technically increase post snapshots inherited and preliminary buffs that come from curse sources, ie despair if its used as an aura via blasphemy because the aura applies its effect in a multiplicative way on top of the additive way

[@sadmemeboi]

12:49 yes, conversion is surely processed ...? the image literally says "phys->cold conversion" and "cold damage can ignite". furthermore, the base damage is purely phys in that image, and phys damage can't ignite on it's own, so it *definitely* is processed, otherwise there'd be no base ignite damage and the flowchart would end there.

[@subtractem]

To fully clarify with GGG's words from their patch that changed this: "Damage over Time cannot be converted, but damage conversion effects will apply to base hit damage for Bleeding, Ignite and Poison before that damage is scaled by applicable modifiers. This means a skill like Molten Strike will still be able to ignite with Fire Damage that was converted from Physical Damage, but converting Fire Damage to Chaos Damage won't change the type of damage over time dealt by an Ignite." So just to be clear, damage over time will be processed before the base damage is calculated, but once the DoT is ticking no further conversion can happen. www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1897612

[@glycylcystine]

Conditional modifiers should work with DoTs if the condition says so explicitly, for example Singularity's "increased damage with hits and ailments against hindered enemies" will work for ignite, bleed and poison because they are ailments, but not for non-ailment DoTs like Vortex. More interesting is whether the condition checks only once when the ailment is applied, or whether the increased damage works only while the enemy is hindered.

[@subtractem]

That is correct yes if it exclusively says so. Most DoTs snapshot so the damage and duration will be locked in at the time of application.

[@Latikayo]

I didn't know about conditional modifiers, thanks :)

[@danievdw]

06:40 you get a unique that changes that all kills are considered to come from you. Used in builds like Arakaalis Fang etc., to compensate for that issue.

[@ILoveMyBGE]

love this series!! Keep them coming. Thank you!!!

[@LionheartBeatz]

Highly appreciated👌

[@johncrichton8876]

Trying to get get some friends into the game! Can you put these guides in a Playlist for easy access! They are helpful!

[@subtractem]

That's the plan! I'll do it now

[@johncrichton8876]

@@subtractem thank you!

[@garhong9125]

Poison question for you: I've heard a lot of people say the "Poisons deal damage 20% faster" mastery is worthless and that only the duration one is good. But if you get duration too high, it would just mean it takes forever to ramp up to your max dps, right? So for a bosser, is the faster damage of use or no?

[@subtractem]

You have exactly correct, though it's arguably even more useful for medium monsters where you'll never be able to full ramp. For example: As I showed in the video my current poison build has poisons that last for 9 seconds, for everything except the biggest bosses in the game I'm aiming to kill them in 1-5 seconds. In that situation, I'm going to be continually ramping poisons the entire time that they are alive with no drop off. Faster poisons in this situation are _even better_ because it is just effectively a more damage modifier since the condition where poisons fall off is never met. Anyone who says that mastery is worthless is...wrong. :)

[@garhong9125]

@@subtractem Good to know!

[@IamNinjaOfNinja]

Even if that is true, it just a terrible design. and Contradicts the "ignites you deal faster" situation

[@swanky147]

Why is it bad design? Ignite and poison scale specifically differently than each other in this regard. It would be pretty silly if two different ailments had the same exact mechanics

[@garbol84]

i have some questions about ignite and chaos. Lets say ignite 100dmg without any duration modifiers last 4sec. is it true that if i will get less 50% less duration it will be 100dmg in 2sec? so same dmg in shorter time and as for chaos its different chaos has 100 dmg per second and with 50%less duration means dot will last shorter meaning i will do 50dmg in 0.5sec? am i correct?

[@subtractem]

Not quite, the specific wording you want to look for is "ignites burn faster" not less duration. Chaos DoTs aren't all the same. Poison is a type of DoT that does Chaos damage, but there are plenty of Chaos DoTs that aren't poison (Bane, Essence Drain, Contagion etc). With Poison you can also get "Poisons apply faster" but not for a generic Chaos DoT.

[@patfranco9522]

I'm pretty sure ADDER CHAOS scales Poison damage over time just like added phys to the skill you're using to poison adds damage

[@subtractem]

i should have clarified: it helps for the on hit damage but if you have generic "added chaos damage" it wont directly affect the dot.

[@xXMaukiorXx]

ty for the guide, man !

[@StefanCatalin101]

Need to unveil chance to, ignite… which weapons besides bow have this mod?? Tnx

[@ElicatrothTV]

I wonder if some kind of strange magic can be done with Goddess Scorned and Dyadian Dawn with a totem that uses your weapon? 85% faster ignites. Could you get what is basically a slow but high base damage skill on totems that attack a bit faster (at least once every .5s between them probably) to just scale really high damage fast ignites? Probably using crit somehow too? IDK I'm no expert, but I'd love for a certain expert that runs this channel to give it a go if you are also interested in this idea xD

[@ernoti]

Does Voidmanipulation nulify the hexblast ignite? does the ailment not get applied? or does it last for 4 second and does 0 damage? hoes does void manipulation on ignite work with the Explosive Expert Keystone on saboteur ascendancy?

[@subtractem]

Ignite is ALWAYS fire damage, even if it's hexblast or you use the blackflame ring. Void Manipulation makes it so you can't do fire damage (which is what ignite is).

[@mikeg8343]

one thing i didnt catch from this video, how does spell damage play with ignite? i was planning to make an elementalist and i like being a caster as far as i understand it: hits from a spell will ignite and 90% of said hit is the ignite amount? over default 4seconds (which can be "fastered" and increased simultaniously to do bigger ticks (lol)), tldr question is stacking spell damage only helping the initial hit of the spell that then trickles down to what the ignite amount is? (is spell damage stacking a waste for ignite builds?)

[@subtractem]

It is explained in the video. Spell damage does not effect ignite.

[@mikeg8343]

@@subtractem thank you, im a terrible student

[@Supportingcast03]

How do you counter this damage overtime?

[@michalrobbertze1067]

So if you two players in party playing cold dot/ ignite /poison any of the same damage overtime, the first one to inflict the ailment gets the benefit for any on kill affects? And the highest damage counts. So you loose one of the character's damage? Do I understand this correctly?

[@benjamindains6906]

Hi subtractem, I do have a quick question, when it says, "Max Poison Stacks" and the faster we attack the more poisons we put on, where does the, "dps multiplier for this skill" come from? I'm making a build that has similar numbers, except for that #12, I'm not sure where it comes from or how to get it in my calculations. :)

[@Oxim-fz3so]

what's most efficient 6 link for hex blast assuming i have all doom available in game?

[@levitastic]

Does POB calculate agony crit stuff correctly? With agony i do less dmg, then again i havent invested much yet in multi so it would make sense if the base hit is 30% less dmg so the poison is also

[@TyrantBrendorf]

thanks for this mate :)

[@sincerelysan2409]

best ending in yt

[@bloodavionext5605]

If resistance penetration does not apply to dot, then for example the 6% fire resistance penetration from the "Heart of Flame" notable does nothing for RF, right?

[@subtractem]

Correct!

[@trippy1v349]

I’m so confused lol. So if I have toxic rain skill and have gloves that add chaos damage then the flat added chaos damage will only impact the HIT, not the DOT from my toxic rain?

[@subtractem]

Added damage works for poison, toxic rain doesn't inherently poison it just has a damage over time component that is independent from the hit.

[@Verbstiltzkin]

I wish someone would show for each dot type what 3 different levels of investment of a weapon for that would look like. I dont mean if you are using spells to do the dot but if you are using a melee weapon. And I dont mean if you are trying to just scale the base damage of the ability like what you used to do with caustic arrow and toxic rain. so like if I want to do a viper strike build with poison, what would 3 weapons look like using that skill? at different investments, starter weapon(craft yourself), mid/endgame and super expensive. same for ignite and bleed. I still dont quite understand what they would look like.

[@teebee7769]

Very good stuff to know thanks!!

[@chrisklooz9538]

Curious how the alt base, heist poison Dagger factors hit damage->dot damage. Seems like it takes all damage and allows it to poison. Therefore does increases to all damage types scale the damage being turned into poison, at the poison ratios? Playing a poison LS build this league, and DPS is solid, and I'm far from minmaxed. Just unsure what actually scales my dot, and what is just scaling my Hit, which helps clear but doesnt do much for big boy DPS

[@subtractem]

It should work similarly to "all damage can ignite" where it'll cause an ignite/poison but it will be applied as fire/chaos damage. It can be a neat way to "convert" initial flat damage into your ailment but you'll still want to scale things like "fire damage over time" or minus chaos res for the damage taken.

[@chrisklooz9538]

@@subtractem Thanks. Mainly was curious if ele pen helped the incoming register as a bigger hit. Sounds like no, as that's a process factored after poison numbers are crunched. Thanks for reply.

[@FarsightAE]

So.. if i have 60% conversion of fire damage to chaos damage a +% to chaos damage doesnt increase the ignite damage?

[@subtractem]

All ignite damage is fire only. Correct

[@FarsightAE]

@@subtractem But if I use blackflame 🤔

[@subtractem]

It's still fire damage.

[@sk8n854]

Does +spell damage% on wands affect spell dots like contagion?

[@subtractem]

Some special skills like essence drain do get more dot from spell damage. You can see this but reading the gem, it is explicitly called out as extra functionality.

[@PCGAMELIFE0]

So generic Damage Over time will scale both poison and ignite?

[@subtractem]

Yes

[@nathanmoore1980]

Content enjoyed.

[@zennesu8243]

Hi, I am confused with the part where poewiki said "Flat damage from things like Added Chaos Damage Support does not apply to damage over time". I saw a lot of content creators use added flat damage support gems in their poison build and when I asked them about this, they said it does affect DoT. So what's what? Anyone able to clarify?

[@subtractem]

This will apply to the initial hit that then makes the poison (or other ailment if you have something like Three Dragons) but it doesn't affect the dot after it's applied, if that makes sense.

[@zennesu8243]

@@subtractem Understood, thanks for explaining! poe language is hardddd

[@Alan157]

What about bleed?

[@myrlokishka]

I think there is a mistake on a wiki poison page. It says poison deals 30% of base chaos and phys dmg. But in article, wiki refer to, ggg guy says it’s 20%. Which one is true?

[@subtractem]

It's a good question, you have to always double check when something was posted and cross reference it with the numbers. GGG's post was in 2017, the patch notes just last year state this: 3.15.0 Gamewide Poison now does 50% more damage (taking 30% of the combined Physical and Chaos Damage, up from 20%). The wiki will usually have more correct numbers than older posts but mechanics rarely change the fundamentals.

[@myrlokishka]

@@subtractem Sry, got it. I’m still using old wiki, and there was no info about 3.15. Still on my way to non-fandom wiki

[@lucienwolf727]

I want to add into the questions. How does poison work with totems/minions? Is your chance to poison transfer to those?

[@swanky147]

Totems, traps, and mines use *your* skills - they inherit all of your stats for calculation purposes, including poison chance. Minions use their own skills and do not inherit your stats, including chance to poison. There are currently very few sources of minion poison chance and it's a very undersupported archetype

[@Joao.caires]

Best professor

[@Hunta1989]

Question with the DoTs applied by minions... So the On-Kill effects are attributed to the owner of the minion but how about the actual application? If I use Herald of Agony and have raise zombies supported by chance to poison while wearing unity of souls (zombies would have 100% poison chance this way) does that mean I would gain HoA stacks from each minion attack or is it still restricted to the poisons my character applies exclusively. P.S. Thanks for putting out this content! Very informative!

[@subtractem]

Minion poison chance is independent from yours so you have to find ways to give it a chance to poison, like this grasping mail mod: www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/n16p6k/build_help_poisoning_minions_thanks_to_grasping/

[@Hunta1989]

@@subtractem yeah I meant United in dream + chance to poison for 100% poison chance for minions. My question was if my herald of agony would get virulence charges from minions poisoning though.

[@usefulbobcat]

Doing research for a ignite perfect agony build using herald of thunder

[@MrLpadilla75]

Nice thx 👍

[@rpetrusson]

So if i pick "15% more chaos damage" in the skilltree, will i do more dmg?

[@subtractem]

If you are doing chaos damage such as poison, yes.

[@whydoihavetohaveahandle1]

good stuff

[@Sevrmark]

Nice video, but I was hoping for more detailed discussion of damage over time multipliers

[@louiskusters9452]

what more do you need to know then at 14:00?

[@ericburnett8163]

sick, I've had a blackflame incinerate trickster in my builds-to-try backlog. Maybe 3.19 I'll bust it out finally

[@bonez994]

Blackflame is a tricky one, be careful exile!

[@fantomxdexrage]

great shit

[@curt685]

Would have like to see a more in depth talk about Toxic rain. Im trying to get 20mil on my TR. Good content

[@subtractem]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bHvTmHdqhtelgbs :)

[@confehdehrehtheh]

Just found your channel through this video, and I've been loving your content. Do you have any thoughts on how to build around the new Alchemist's Mark? Ignite doesn't seem that difficult, but because it asks for a single large poison the usual strat of lots of little poisons doesn't seem as good.

[@subtractem]

The best way will be to use the mastery for 300% poison damage on the initial poison. Unfortunately the overall synergy with the mark is a little weak but I could see it being useful for non-pathfinder builds to get some better clear with poison.

[@hunterlane5997]

Path of Exiles biggest problem is the fact they poorly explain the systems in it.

[@arzanpatel]

Yo, is there a good ssf viable build that can actually do all end game content? I say this cause I really struggle to farm the currency for more popular builds so wondering what there is in this space.

[@subtractem]

Explosive Arrow Elementalist is probably the easiest to get going with right now.

[@Ferkrat]

Can I combine poison with ignite?

[@subtractem]

they scale differently enough i dont recommend it

[@Majesticblue]

What is using the wiki even mean?

[@markkatch]

does chaos damage over time and fire damage over time both effect blackflame?

[@subtractem]

No, black flame still does fire damage the enemies just take it as if it's chaos damage. It's a very odd item! You still want to scale fire damage in your build but it gives you an additional scalar by using either.

[@swanky147]

For Blackflame the key is to think of "Damage Dealt" and "Damage Taken" as two separate and consecutive calculations: For the Damage Dealt section, you're still dealing fire damage and use all the usual ignite scaling sources - elemental damage, fire damage, fire dot multiplier, ignite damage, etc. Adding things like %increased chaos damage, chaos dot multiplier, or void manipulation support will *not* increase the ignite damage because at this stage it's still treated as fire damage. Once we get to the Damage Taken category, it's converted to deal chaos damage instead and checks against the usual chaos modifiers like chaos resistance, wither, etc. Debuffs which would normally increase fire damage taken (-fire res, covered in ash) do not affect the ignite damage. Another way of putting it: Blackflame isn't a modifier to your character, it's a modifier experienced by enemies - think of it like a hidden debuff that says "I take chaos damage instead of fire damage from ignites inflicted by KrashKourse."

[@MAMAJUGO]

wait... where the bleeds at?

[@subtractem]

Bleeds are kind of a hybrid of Ignite and Poison in how they work (especially when using Crimson Dance). This video is intended to be a launching off point to a deeper understanding and not an hour long comprehensive guide to everything possible. I encourage folks looking to get into Bleed based builds to walk through the wiki page for it themselves and try it out. There is nothing unique about bleeds that cannot be figured out if they understand what it in this video and then read the wiki page for it.

[@N7Null]

GGG can create PoE but can't figure out how to use round()

[@Demortixx]

I like the idea of a poison build

[@robertg7249]

i still dont quite understand how to make DoT builds go brrrrrrrrrrrrrr. most of my builds got stuck. i think it's the lack of "DoT applies faster" stats in the game... the only way we can scale DoT builds are DoT multipliers and maybe spelldmg where possible.. but just attacking paster isn't quite helpful now that you told me about all this.. i kinda hate dot builds as i dont see how a way to make them as good as the rest. they seem really limited compared to all other builds also.. dealing with gem levels is depressing.

[@JunduTo]

ahh i love theese

[@DojoDyo]

I love your guides ❤. Helps alot. By any chance are you a programmer? 😄😄 you speak like one haha

[@patfranco9522]

Need EK conversation/"Gain X damage as X damage" or convert X element to X element

[@lucascookson4520]

11:37 lol all praise mark ggg

[@markvis4106]

10:10 duration equals max damage..... false... duration equals duration and it only affects the time frame. damage faster also does not affect the damage itself NOR the time frame. it only affects the speed at which damage is dealt DURING the time frame. so a 2 second ignite with 50% faster will not be a 1 second ignite, it will be a 2 second ignite that inflicts damage 50% faster. to get a shorter ignite you have to lower IGNITE DURATION. weapon, projectile damage etc does not DIRECTLY affect poison IF that poison is not from a HIT if there is any other means of applying a poison debuff from a non-hit effect it will not be scaled by this source of damage. OVERALL damage is ALWAYS in some way affected, but the TOTAL DPS which is inaccurately denominated as such IS. EXAMPLE 100 dps dealt over a time frame of 0.5 seconds is NOT damage per "SECOND". it is damage per HALF SECOND!

[@subtractem]

I suggest you just study the wiki. You wrote a lot of words that are incorrect. I recommend fewer capital letters and more humility.

[@chrs-wltrs]

I really want to try a build with Exsanguinate and Corrupted Blood, because the fantasy there is just so cool. Unfortunately, there's a bit of a problem: Exsanguinate/Reap and Corrupted Blood scale with *just* enough of the common modifiers to be interesting: * Physical Damage * Physical DoT multiplier * Skill effect duration But they don't have enough modifiers in common to be really viable. CB doesn't scale with spell damage or spell crit, like Reap/Exsanguinate. CB also has max stacks of 10, while Exsang/Reap cap at 3. CB isn't even an ailment, like Bleed, Poison, or Ignite. There's just a lot of awkward, small things that make the skills not mesh super well. :(

[@clondike7]

Now you got me wondering about a Burning Arrow Perfect Agony build. Y u do dis to me man? lol

[@machito164]

your dot dmg is good when it doesnt feel like dot 😏

[@Classic_DM]

Great video. Handwriting could use some work :)

[@officialben827]

frst

[@BongoRGB]

no

[@addressunknown8]

What about bleeds?