Succession’s Shiv - The Real “Woman Problem" in Business

[@thetake]

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[@trinaq]

I love how Shiv's hair and make up changes to reflect her character arcs. In Season 1, she wears soft colours and has long, styled hair to reflect that she wants to be an individual outside of her family's influence. When she starts vying for control of the company, she opts for business suits, turtlenecks and bobbed hair, to be perceived as powerful and business savvy.

[@rachel-gi6ul]

Yeeees! In season 1 she looks elegant and natural. By season 3 she looks so uncomfortable in her clothes, like nothing fits her right anymore. I'm gonna miss this show so much, can't believe season 4 is the last season! :*(

[@MechaJutaro]

We also need a look at what color panties she was wearing when the series began, vs how they changed as the series went on

[@MyaB1986]

Yep, she slowly develops into Karen.

[@dn8015]

Sarah Snooks is such a wonderful actor.

[@krista6538]

Not to mention the way her eye makeup changes- she emphasizes her eyebrows more in later seasons.

[@MadGeorgeProductions]

I think it's just nice to see a complicated female character who can do awful things but thinks she's a good person, rather than the two-dimensional "strong, independent woman" that dominates most movies these days. Constantly going for positive representation has ironically made those characters dull and uncomplicated, and left the complicated and juicier roles to white males.

[@tananario]

Lol! Wut???!!😂😂😂😂

[@MadGeorgeProductions]

@@tananario I'm praising the show for writing a female character with lots of dimensions, something that is disappearing fast in cinema. You find that hilarious?

[@Flaschenteufel]

Sadly most male roles these days are only "me a dumb male pwease tell me what to do woman" kind of guys, no matter if they are Kevin next door or a grand star fleet commander who was trained for his job since childhood and forged in multiple conflicts...

[@cieloestelaramirezdearella1912]

IKR!!! Badly written girlbosses are actually doing more harm than good! Having a great representation of women on media comes with giving them dimension, NOT perfection in any shape or form! Women are people just like everyone else and Shiv is such a refreshing character to see

[@potato-whiz]

Shiv is an interesting character. She’s a girl boss but in the worst way. Of the four Roy kids she’s probably the most outwardly ruthless and lacking in empathy. You never really see struggling with a moral dilemma. She’s complicated in a different way. You can see how being a girl in the environment she was raised in shaped who she is without it being the whole story. Usually you watch these kinds of shows expected them to show an underlying goodness or a more complicated character underneath, like with Roman and Kendall but they subvert that with Shiv in a brilliant way. She’s just not a good person, through and through. She’s complicated in a different way. Women are complicated too but are often not written that way. Some women really are just bad people and it’s ok to show that.

[@chipmunkpark8826]

I love Sarah Snook...can't believe she has not won an Emmy for her role as Shiv yet

[@LuisSierra42]

Everyone is so great in this show

[@williammccormick984]

It's ridiculous. Fuck Ozark.

[@darielzahidpalacios1605]

Ughhh that screaming goat from The Ozark kept beating her

[@kookaesque]

i have a feeling her character rubs a lot of powerful old white male voters (aka logans) the wrong way

[@bill000]

@@darielzahidpalacios1605 julia garner deserved every award she got

[@dragonhero14]

I'm going to be honest here... I don't think what Tom did at the end of season 3 was wrong. Despite him loving her, their relationship has been toxic. From the very start in season 1 to the episode before the last, Shiv was one of the worst partners I've seen on television. I understand she defended him, but that was once. One time. Her family has normalized talking badly about him around her and she just laughs with them. That isn't a toxic boys club trait that she is forced to learn and adhere to. She constantly proves that she doesn't care if she hurts Tom's feelings and treat him more like one of her things. I honestly believe that is the real reason she confronted her dad about Tom. Not because she fully understood his situation, frustration ,emotions, and concerns. But because a situation hurt one of her things. Shiv multiple times understands the hints and statements Tom makes to her about their relationship, but doesn't care or actively do anything to repair it. She believed that Tom would never choose himself over her and would always follow what she says. How does someone with her Political, PR, and Media experience not realize that her choice actions and words caused this?

[@potato-whiz]

Yup. Shiv thinks she’s playing the game but she’s making huge mistakes along the way that show she has no idea how to do it. If Tom was a means to an end for her, she did a shitty job of hiding it. She was constantly in his face about how little she thought of him and even blatantly came out and said she doesn’t love him. Then when asked if she’d take care of Tom if she took over the company and hedges. She couldn’t even lie to him and say yes. She just made it known she doesn’t care about him. Tom was fully justified doing what he did, looking out for himself and siding with the people who looked out for him. And that wasn’t shiv.

[@ravioliva]

Tom had started in the woman's position. He was treated just as a dumb person who got his means of living situation through marriage. Always accepting being downplayed to keep his situation. Shiv take him for the submissive and to make sure she is stronger and smart than partner. The tragedy of Shiv is that Tom got to turn his situation around and is now the embodiment of the strong woman while her was turned and put in the woman's trad female position and got pregnant.

[@juanchoresultay2704]

He is basically a martyr at the marriage

[@annkey4091]

To be fair, Tom was of the mind "First, I look at the purse" as the Coasters sang years ago in his concern for money and access to "nice"things. Somewhere along the line, he fell in love with Shiv. To me Shiv, acted like one of the boys, except she wore a dress as required; got married as required. It was never about trust or love for Shiv, it was about going through the motions in an attempt to belong. Remember, in season 1, when she and Roman had their physical altercation at the hospital? Tom walked in and immediately left. Shiv could physically hold her own (that is learning to cope behavior). Shiv's manner of speech and carriage to me all reflected a testosterone-filled household without a female image in sight. She wasn't equipped for marriage and nothing in her brain steered her towards it other than "by rote." There is a side of her that cares for and about Tom, but if she expresses it, she feels might be emotionally lost .

[@dragonhero14]

@@annkey4091 I could be understanding about that...except when Shiv was introduced to us, she was the daughter to aimed to make her own way in life career-wise. She has friends and connections who have stable relationships and even has all the access to therapy long before she met Tom. Testosterone doesn't make you cheat in a relationship. Choices do. She chose to cheat on Tom for a while, even up to their marriage day. Then pushed for an open marriage last moment on their wedding day when most partners would be less inclined to stop or annul the union. I agree that both came into the relationship with expectations. Tom for money and status and Shiv for someone she could rely and count on. However, Tom grew up, fell in love, and became her ride or die. In response, Shiv didn't grow up or get serious. The one time she finally decided to do that was in the final episode siding with her husband. She was the one sibling that didn't get physically or emotionally abused by Logan(compared to her brothers), along with being the least dependent on him, yet she makes similar mistakes to them. That's just wild for me, given how smart we're told she is.

[@MyaB1986]

In all honesty, after Shiv was promised the CEO position she's tethering between the company and politics. Ans even after that she scoffs when Logan proposes that she goes to a three year process of getting the topmost position. Three years! For a person with no previous experience in the field. That's nothing. And after she complains that's too long Logan goes "okay well then come with me to work tomorrow" and she declines saying she's busy the next day. That's probably when Logan decided she's not the prime candidate for the position. And he's right. None of the siblings is. But Shiv goes multiple times to say "I'm smart, I'm the smartest" without anything to back it up....

[@thepragmaticspiritualist7074]

She is the epitome of someone who was born on third place and thought she hit a triple. She has so many opportunities but doesn't even try to learn anything.

[@helloitsdaniel]

💯

[@nekrataali]

This is all of the Roy children lmao

[@JessicaMiller-pc4dj]

She may have more than many women I agree, but she still has less than her brothers .

[@thepragmaticspiritualist7074]

@@JessicaMiller-pc4dj she has more opportunities than most people whether they’re her brothers or not. With her wealth and education and privilege, she could have gone far but her arrogance and entitlement prevented her from attempting to learn anything. She just always assumes she’s an expert even when she’s done nothing to become one.

[@JessicaMiller-pc4dj]

@@thepragmaticspiritualist7074Yeah , you're right.

[@enraegen561]

If the writers are sticking to their brilliantly realistic portrayal of narcissism, she will learn nothing, and end up with nothing of value. Her deep deep malignant insecurities will make her ruin everything around her.

[@alexaguirre4487]

You were right

[@nationalsocialism3504]

She gets to be a mother & wife... so the most fulfilling roles that a woman can experience in life. She gets Tom while taking a subservient position in their power dynamic & is relieved of all insecurities since she has nothing to fear isn't being said about her by him after that blowout fight where thry said the most atrociously accurate things about each other. Shiv ended up "winning" the most by virtue of being a woman since her "losing" allows her to fit back into a feminine frame instead of trying to force herself to fit into a masculine frame.

[@annkey4091]

@@nationalsocialism3504 Ok! Maybe being a mother is fulfilling, but a wife maybe open to debate.

[@justagirl36]

she's my fav character because she's such a girlfailure

[@alim.9801]

Girlfailure omg 😭😂

[@shelbybooker1478]

Her and Elaine Benes are my favorite girlfailures.

[@justagirl36]

@@shelbybooker1478 from seinfeld right? i really need to watch that show omg

[@justagirl36]

@@alim.9801 affectionately ofc

[@browdser]

An analysis video on Shiv was so needed! thank you! The Succession children are so horrible and sympathetic at the same time

[@chipmunkpark8826]

Perfect ending for Shiv would be that she goes back to politics and actually tries to make the country a better place. I think it's sad she chooses to conform and become a carbon copy of her father

[@thepragmaticspiritualist7074]

But she has never shown any capacity to care about other humans or want to make the world a better place

[@fighterofthenightman1057]

I feel like this comes from the viewpoint that ideological and partisan liberalism is correct … and this show is way more complex and smarter than that.

[@afrosymphony8207]

@@fighterofthenightman1057 exactly what i wanted to say...some people want the arts to be basically pumping out propaganda for morality and "proper" behaviour. The onlytime "immoral behaviour" should be acceptable is if its framed as a "critique" to the status-quo, ie white ppl, rich white men or men in general.

[@sebastianfernandez5827]

Politics isn't the place to make a country a better place, it's essentially a public company version spin-off of Succession. The show outlines it, too.

[@potato-whiz]

When has she ever shown a genuine capacity or desire to do anything for anyone but herself? An ending like that is a fairy tale.

[@brandonwhite4992]

This was great. Absolutely love succession. I can't remember which episode exactly, it was early on in season 2 though when she just scoffed off Logan's surprisingly sincere offer of training, which would have required huge change and difficulties. That was the tipping point for the character I think because she just denied training but still wanted to just waltz into the top spot but never truly reflected why she kept getting the rug pull

[@TheBlackestKnight21]

THISSSS l. Shiv was always tied with roman for me personally because she always just wanted it handed to her without doing the work and same to an extent with roman. Kendall did feel like he was owed it for being the “oldest” but i don’t think anyone can argue from a qualification perspective kendall was always the clear 1, logan knew it and even the siblings knew it towards the end despite what happened. Shiv is just as capably smart as kendall, but her working in politics all those years put her behind too much imo.

[@MagTheSag90]

It's got to be just heartbreaking to grow up with so much sexism from your own family. Why wouldn't it make you horrible?

[@MJ-py7dm]

Heartbreaking like walking in Prada shoes, riding in a limo or cheating on your husband constantly.

[@nicestguyinhouse6112]

I know, Roman has it rough eh

[@susiem.2068]

Sexism ? I don't think it was "sexism" as much as it was narcissism and utter ruthlessness. On one hand, she was made to believe she deserves everything because of her name and family is the only thing that matters. On the other, she was made to feel like she doesn't even deserve her name because she's not an accomplished ruthless businesswoman the way other successful women in the show are, and her parents don't like her. Her character is insanely well written.

[@angellight9500]

All of the Roy kids were raised by cruel, heartless parents so how else could they have felt they could survive other than becoming just like the people who hurt them so much. Maybe Conner's mom was different but she was taken away from Conner by Logan when he was young, so all he had was Logan's abandonment and cruelty to deal with.

[@topshootersniper7544]

what stupid sexism, she got everything she ever wanted

[@apstrike]

Not subtle enough on the subject of Shiv's professional competence. She has experience in media management and political consulting and is competent in these areas. When she speaks about them it's with authority. Sometimes wrong or different from what others advise, but not uninformed. What she does not have experience with, and where her insecurities come out, is when she tries to jump into the corporate C-suite. She does not know how to run a business or manage relationships within a corporate structure, and this is where she makes her big mistakes. To be fair, her father basically does everything possible to set her up for failure not success.

[@thepragmaticspiritualist7074]

In the few episodes where she was working in politics or media relations, she didn’t actually demonstrate any competence in those fields. But you’re right she spoke about them with authority but that points or to her arrogance than competence

[@apstrike]

@@thepragmaticspiritualist7074 There is probably room for alternate interpretations, but she was advising the show equivalent of Bernie Sanders. Maybe I'm biased by the real world, but you don't get in the room with people at that level (or you didn't used to) unless you have real competence. I need to watch those scenes again and maybe I'll be less positive. To pick a political mirror image, Shiv seems more of a successful consultant than Chelsea Clinton was a successful journalist, if we want to compare two women who had their careers kickstarted by family relationships but failed to launch (if one values that standard of success).

[@thepragmaticspiritualist7074]

@@apstrike she seemed to show poor judgment in those roles but people with great wealth and powerful connections are often desirable for political campaigns so they were probably willing to overlook her shortcomings. Agree with you on Chelsea though.

[@ayameisastar]

Her career before the succession crisis was as a political consultant and worked for a US senator. Surely she was good at her job and was quite confident then right? But maybe those roles didn't prepare her for leadership?

[@coolandlolgirl]

i think it may have to do with being in a high-pressure, emotionally-weaponised family environment that does not want to see her success (not really at least). they all want to see each other fall if it means they themselves can succeed. all combines i think it might interfere with her performance

[@mangos2888]

Given her connections to powerful people, she could've easily gotten those jobs without any skills or formal training

[@sophcw]

Rich people can get jobs doing anything

[@nightingalenef1764]

I just finished watching season 1. So, the following are my thoughts on Shiv's character arc so far. At first I got the impression that she's more intelligent than her brothers. She's good at making quickly the right decisions in regards to her job as a political consultant. She seems to know what she's talking about. Then she gets the job offer to work for Gil. And this is where the 'greyness' creeped in: Does she get the offer because she's so damn good at what she's doing? Or does she get the offer because she is part of the Roy family and Gil knows that he will profit from it at some point (which he does)? I constantly keep thinking: is she good because of her skills or is she good because she is good in utilizing her privileges/resources? If the second one is the legit one, then she isn't 'better' than her brothers as she thinks she is. Because it's the same thing they're doing. All in all, amazing character. Very good show!

[@margarethmichelina5146]

She was very good at her previous job for fixing the politic but ever since her ex-boyfriend Nate showed up and even she worked with the rival politician that she's supposed to opposed to is showing that she's a moron. Also, her infedility got exposed and she gaslights Tom to stay with her as she doesn't want to be alone. But, too bad she becomes more rude to Tom than ever.

[@A-G-A-G]

That episode when she said her political opinion counts more (which it did) and is completely shot down is infuriating

[@alexanderguerrero347]

It does count but the problem was they were choosing the republican candidate. She’s been working with democrats. You just don’t listen to a democrat when choosing a republican candidate

[@Chris-rg6nm]

Because it didn't.

[@user-hl6mm1bp8l]

@@Chris-rg6nmjust wrong

[@MJ-py7dm]

Her experience is irrelevant because it hasn't helped her career at all. The only thing she got done it was because of her name

[@AW-uv3cb]

@@MJ-py7dm Gil was ready to offer her the Chief of Staff position if he won the election. And he invited her to run his campaign. Clearly she had a good reputation in her field before and he appreciated her work that he saw first-hand. Also she chose to work for the candidates representing the party that her family company actively undermines. So maybe in the beginning her name helped her get her foot in the door, but later on, in her chosen party, it was more likely to hinder her, because not all democratic candidates would trust her like Gil did. Also all of the advice she gives throughout the show on how to handle tricky PR situations works. She clearly knows what she's doing there. And the only reason she walked away from it was because Logan openly lied to her about making her the CEO (then immediately backtracked).

[@robchuk4136]

Tom's 'not so nice' isn't something like he was hiding it. This was something he clearly became over time. In some ways, Shiv created this monster. He was pretty pathetic for at least 2 seasons. Their marriage was as toxic as any I'd ever seen on tv, and it's all psychological. She makes my blood boil, and I want Sarah Snook to win all the awards. It's genius work.

[@galaxyghost1340]

I think Tom wasn’t nice since the beginning (remember human furniture?) it’s just he held his marriage to dear, so he didn’t act that way towards Shiv. And now that he cares about it less, it’s more obvious in his behavior

[@goldenflower3182]

Tom has not been a good person from the start. To suggest Shiv turned him into a bad person is a misogynistic read. He’s been a blatant opportunistic, bully on a quest for power from the get to. He just couldn’t take out those values on the family, so he took it out on: employees, Greg, Willa, and tagging out a kid from winning a million dollars. Plus he wants to run Waystar. He’s never been a good person. Shiv only further brought this out.

[@diamondsandrubies422]

Tom was a toxic person well before he and Shiv were a toxic couple.

[@nekrataali]

My favorite part about this show is how meek Tom is around Shiv but is completely batshit ruthless around everyone else. Shiv can bully him into an open marriage but then Tom will turn around and destroy Greg's office or eat Logan's chicken.

[@susiem.2068]

I believe Shiv is the Cercei Lannister of Succession. She is a girl born to a man who built their family Mythos and Empire, but never taught her how to succeed. She's ruthless just like him, but doesn't have the smarts and foresight Logan does. Like her step-mother said, her father made her a playground and she thinks it's the whole world, the problem is that in this fake world she never had to earn anything. She never had to work, had her father hand everything to her, but feels entitled enough to be cruel and delusional to others because she never had to prove herself before. I don't think it's an issue of sexism as the serie clearly showed that other women succeeded before her. It's just that she lacks the credentials and experience all the men in her family have. She knows she's a nepobaby, her family knows, her employees know. She has no credibility of her own to fall back on AND her reputation suffers from the fact that she's a nepobaby. It's sad.

[@bgos4727]

I actually disagree in confront of her brothers she is the one who worked the hardest. She and kendall are equal but kendall was the number one boy so he more leverage

[@samlasley798]

Shiv tries to reason with Logan on more moral grounds against Mencken but Roman is wise enough to know this won’t work with him and appeals to Logan’s appetite for profits instead. This is echoed in Logan’s “course it’s a fucking minus!” when Shiv’s womanhood is brought up. Although Logan undeniably holds some sexism, he’s ready to acknowledge the world is unfair but isn’t prepared to try to change things because profiting off the back of them is more important to him

[@frankieseward8667]

When Shiv opened her mouth about being CEO during Logan dinner, her fate was sealed. Seriously what was she thinking

[@JessicaMiller-pc4dj]

She is my all-time favourite character on this show - apart from Connor 😁 obviously. Every scene with her in, is a master class. The confidence and arrogance is 👌.

[@passiveaggressive6175]

Let’s not forget that Logan Roy is an awful, toxic father and a terrible role model. He constantly undermines her and shows no affection. Who can she look up to?

[@TheBlackestKnight21]

“She’s at least smarter than her brothers” she is not smarter than Kendall and everyone knows that. Especially not within the business , roman and connor yes. But logan, Gerri, others all know kendall is the smartest in terms of CEO talk

[@kevinlittrell3407]

I kind of wonder if her treatment towards Tom is a way to get back at the men in her life. She has no power over the workplace environment or her father, but she has power over Tom, and maybes that’s just enough to give her a glimmer of satisfaction.

[@uscitizen3252]

💯

[@witchplease9695]

I’d love to see a Take on Harper from Industry. I’ve never seen a “girlboss” character quite like her, especially one that’s a Black woman

[@Flaschenteufel]

Yes because we need to remake every character in a black version to fight racism like Disney. Not asian nor eurasian or whatever but always black so everybody can finally be equal.

[@hi2978]

@@Flaschenteufel huh? its not a remake dumbass the character was written as a black American.

[@ambre4144]

@@Flaschenteufel what a surprise ? Black ppl advocating for black representation in the media! Who would’ve thought??!

[@djaund.1ce]

@@FlaschenteufelHuh what are you even on about 😂. This is an entirely other show 🤦‍♂️

[@chisomo8088]

Right! I was so conflicted about her tbh

[@jainc.kurany9553]

You, of course, know that Shiv is also what is used as a weapon in the prisons. And that it is also Sanskrit for the god Shiva. Lucky auspicious kind. Haha.

[@henriqueacabral]

Some parts of this assessment havent aged well. At episode 9 of the last season she sides with the far right president elect with zero issues

[@fortune_roses]

A lot of *ENTJ/ESTJ* ("masculine") types are villainized when they're girl bosses... I'm a *female corporate manager* & nothing like the "evil/hustly" girl bosses pictured in media :D

[@alexanderguerrero347]

So in season 1 shiv was supposed to work with politicians to be in charge politically. Tom was supposed to be in charge of Waystar Royco. Then in season 2 shiv changes her mind.

[@annkey4091]

Kendall and Roman were going fight Shiv and Tom, tooth and nail for the CEO position. Logan was not going to give Tom the CEO position with Kendall and Roman sitting there. The only way Tom could be considered openly was if Shiv was pregnant ---- which fate would have it, Logan would not live to see.

[@dplunk13]

Sarah Snook should be getting as much hype as the male actors.

[@ishmael_03]

It has nothing to do with Shiv being a woman she is just a bad person like most of the characters on the show. She also treated her husband Tom like shit!

[@lanaholic3015]

It has a lot to do with her gender , rewatch the show

[@ishmael_03]

@@lanaholic3015 I'll quote S01E7 of Logan Roy addressing of Shiv's entitled lazy ass! "You run towards politics to prove that you're your own man. Fine. But that's not principle. You're scared to compete. You're marrying a man fathoms beneath you because you don't want to risk being betrayed. You're a fսcking coward."

[@DaveyFish1]

This is the first video on this channel I’ve managed to watch all the way thru lol

[@metaphorbrown6350]

If your support for people no longer having to face oppression is conditional to how respectable you find them, the politics you agree with or generally how you think they should behave you don't support equality. You support giving oppressed people permission so long as they behave. That is still patriarchy. That does not mean you can not disagree with capitalism, toxic bosses, and so on. Simply that putting it into the context of criticizing someone's feminism, someone's queerness, and so on is seeking to game the oppressive system for other ideological goals. If your judgement of a woman's behavior in the workplace is more intense or has more expectations because of her gender you are being sexist. Full stop. That is the glass ceiling right there.

[@metaphorbrown6350]

PS - looking for the video on the male characters weaponizing toxic masculinity to get ahead. As most men in business do. -But that's probably not nearly as important as controlling how other women behave even if fictional.

[@lovecraftianleviathan8918]

What, in the whole series, suggests that _Shiv_ is the “most capable contender” for Logan’s top spot? Clearly Kendall is the most capable, although none of them _should_ be in that spot.

[@chipmunkpark8826]

I think Shiv is second after Kendall...she is in control of herself unlike him who struggles with addiction. BUT she doesn't have the years of experience Kendall has, and that is her biggest disadvantage

[@adeepdive77]

In the first season, especially as it was coming out, a lot of people thought that Shiv was the top one. Kendall was a straight up dry drunk, Roman was fucking around in California and seemed to forget basic PR (ripped a check up in front of a kid), and then couldn't stand up to their dad in the takeover he was apart of. Everyone else was happy to have a nice face in front of Marcia but her. However, we didn't see her in the business. She would just tear down all the ideas that corny Kendall would come up with. It was season 2 that we saw that she may not know what she's on about.

[@CJStew06]

@@chipmunkpark8826 I would disagree, I actually think Roman displayed the best instincts for running ATN and taking that news media into a new era. He was exactly right about Mencken, and overall knows how to serve and play to the ATN audience. I don't like that kind of media, personally, but Roman had the best instincts for how it works and what would attract viewers and advertising dollars. Kendall and Shiv both wanted to transform the company entirely and be seen as great reformers and progressive leaders-Roman at least dropped the pretense and embraced the ugliness for what is was

[@CJStew06]

"She seems like the most capable contender"-why and how? She had no experience in the company or running any kind of media corporation, much less any corporation at all. Why didn't she start in comms (since that's her specialty), maybe work alongside Karolina for a few years, and naturally progress into the role of chief executive? There's no point trying to elevate her to some status of "she could have done it if only..." when there's little to no evidence to prove that could-at least with Kendall and Roman we actually saw them in action, in capacity of executive functions. Shiv was never doing more than coaching from the sidelines, which is not a prerequisite for doing the top job.

[@CJStew06]

I understand some might feel, "well Kendall and Roman got those opportunities because they're men." Maybe-but we also know 1) Shiv chose to pursue politics as a career path, initially, and 2) that Logan offered Shiv the CEO job and laid out a reasonable timeline for her to progress into the job-to which her response was "that's a lot of months, Dad." She was arguably the most entitled of all the children and wanted the fast-track, instant noodles result of being the top dog. If Logan did what she wanted and just gave her the job when she didn't have experience, she would've been set up to fail.

[@samfilmkid]

I’ve got a theory that Shiv might be Logan’s only biological child. Kendall and Roman look more like their mother but they bear almost no resemblance to Logan in appearance or personality. Shiv is the only one who seems to have her dad’s killer instinct but no experience. I think Caroline was sleeping around during her and Logan’s marriage and I don’t blame her one bit! Anybody else agree? I don’t even know if it’ll be revealed but it’s just my own personal subtext. Would be wild if it’s revealed two of Logan’s potential heirs aren’t even his biological kids!

[@juliannehannes11]

Makes sense

[@StrongImaginationA]

Nah, Kendal and Roman look like Connor and he's Logan's son from his first wife. I personally think blood theories are not that interesting. If they weren't Logan's children, that fact would be just one of many complicating factors in the game.

[@kaydee9783]

Roman is exactly like Logan, way more than shiv. Shiv has a weak stomach.

[@janette9872]

Lol I’ve never seen a single episode of this show (but I HAVE seen the Take’s videos on it) but it still seems plausible to me lol

[@potato-whiz]

@@kaydee9783 what? It’s exactly the opposite lol

[@lh7369]

I adore shiv!!

[@snowpenguin6412]

This is an amazing episode! I had never thought Shiv this way!

[@utsavdas1855]

Shiv is a narcissist failure, she wants to have a open relationship, and starts throwing tantrums when Tom hits back.

[@playlistkiddo5654]

Still love her though

[@sarahsouayah3062]

Yes a video on Shiv!!

[@giuliadannibale9752]

this video is amazing!!

[@talhaabdullah2859]

shiv shows how women can be just as evil as men can be somehow perhaps even more

[@65g4]

Great video

[@A-G-A-G]

Fantastic performance. A crime that zendaya has two Emmy’s while she has none.

[@badaxtion1878]

Not a “crime” at all. You’re insinuating Zendaya isn’t talented or hasn’t performed well in her works. Which she has

[@hayleym1483]

@@badaxtion1878 Wouldn't Snook be nominated in the best supporting actress category too? So the comparison doesn't make sense.

[@A-G-A-G]

@@badaxtion1878 she’s average She kinda just uses the same blank face and delivery and it feels hollow, repetitive and boring to watch. People get caught in zendaya the personality and not zendaya the actress

[@alim.9801]

​@@A-G-A-G I'm sure that might be true for some people. However, Zendaya actually is a pretty dang good actress. You're allowed to dislike her, but she deserved those Emmys.

[@hi2978]

@@A-G-A-G uh have you watched euphoria? She's exceptionally good.

[@bp6877]

Great analysis! Ultimately, human beings cannot get beyond the fundamentals of how God built them.

[@user-nh7rf2xv3u]

she's so much like logan. More of a vulnerable narc though

[@mayarodriguezsrensen6904]

It's hilarious to me that Nate ever thought he was anything more exciting than drying paint. Worst character on the show.

[@ayan5416]

I hated him too lol wanted to see hin get punch

[@buzzcutseason142]

how is it that shiv’s just as much of a loser as everyone else in the show but is held to a higher standard lmao

[@mayravega2335]

I did not see her toxic narcissistic evil as being a woman issue. The character is a nepo baby with the power of mega wealth and no restraints whatsoever and the temperament of a spoiled toddler. Anyone who has actually worked for a female nepo baby knows they are snakes.

[@rodU65]

Everyone in that family is just the worst. I was happy when bad things happened to them. Cool TV serie.

[@jlopink]

Are you talking sh** about my girl Shiv?? LOL

[@nykia31]

Cersei Lannister

[@shushunk00]

there is no good kind of girl boss just like there is no good billionaires,cops,veterans

[@quinbrick8861]

Oh please . Not everything is so black and white

[@shushunk00]

@@quinbrick8861 m'lord take me in ur team ,i am a temporarily embarrassed millionaire,give me ur boot m'lord ,i lick it for u for free, i dont even get any compensation for the propaganda i spread for u m'lord.

[@alim.9801]

Nah there are some good veterans.

[@user-hl6mm1bp8l]

@@quinbrick8861 all of these professions make you an awful human being

[@robchuk4136]

M from 007

[@KittySnicker]

Glad you acknowledged how awful Shiv is to Tom!

[@fireduprabbit7525]

So basically when the men do it it’s toxic, but when Shiv does it she’s doing it because of the men around her. Somehow women always find a way to blame everyone else around them for their shitty behavior or situation. Responsibility is a woman’s kryptonite. She’s incompetent but then that’s the men’s fault for not training her. She’s shitty with her husband because she learned how to be toxic from her father. Nothing is her fault. Congratulations.

[@kekewesty]

well she did only ever learn from a toxic man so yeah

[@jamesp3902]

@@kekewesty Her mother is toxic and also deserves credit.

[@CJStew06]

@@kekewesty Well then who did the sons learn from? Or is it just innate in their nature because they're men?

[@sydenhamfortune2308]

Your voice sounds like one of logans call girl 😂😂😢

[@cool-as-cucumber]

Tywin Lannister: "You're not as smart as you think you are"

[@marie-ie5no]

I can fix her

[@ALSeth-Storyteller]

Arrogant and insecure girlboss? So just a girlboss.

[@adnanmir2873]

This channel has got seriously something for Gender. I guess it's her personal grudge.

[@BigHenFor]

Look in the mirror. There is the difficulty Not here.

[@taj5135]

Her character is made through gender relations and misogyny and insecurity…could u not figure that out

[@40pianos]

It's a damn tv show and the characters are fictional. And that means every assessment of every character is also fiction. Nothing more than self important, self appointed (anointed?) 'splainers indulging their own egos to declare on an elaborate illusion.

[@Anthonycheesman33]

She’s basically Hillary Clinton Nancy P and Kamala Harris all wrapped into one it’s brilliant lol.

[@thepragmaticspiritualist7074]

But she doesn't have the training, business savvy, intelligence or competence of any of those women

[@Anthonycheesman33]

@@thepragmaticspiritualist7074 my comment still stands lol.

[@thepragmaticspiritualist7074]

😂

[@leodavinci9462]

What a silly and shallow thought.

[@lolite_a]

it's wild cause Kendall had never had a single deal go right or even successfully pull off any big heists. Shiv did. Everybody is always giving her way more criticism which is wild lol Kendall did nothing right and Rome is all talk.

[@thiphan6515]

I couldn’t get into this show because every single character was so unlikeable, I couldn’t barrack for any of them

[@MayaLarsen-y3r]

We need more positive female girl bosses on TV.

[@daenerystargaryen1440]

She has the personality of Logan, but is nowhere qualified for the CEO position because of her lack of experience in business.

[@Chris-rg6nm]

Just let her be a vile character, no need to try to justify her behavior and blame sexism and misogyny. There are no good people in this show.

[@BigHenFor]

You think sexism and misogyny are not relevant in shaping character? Lol. People are shaped by their influences, and as the author says Shiv needs to grow out of those agendas of others imposed on her, and make some real choices of her own. The School of Life channel dropped a community post on this very subject, whose last paragraph states: "Maturity defined: the capacity to approach as much of life as possible without a script." Shiv cannot see herself yet from the script imposed on her by her powerful father, his business, and her family. And that script is sexist and misogynistic, because it's not about her merit, but her gender. Extracting the psychological space to individuate from the shortcomings of toxic parents is not easy because these primary relationships shape you. It's only when one develops deep self-awareness can was extricate oneself from the conditioning, and really act with agency. Shiv is playing the hand she was dealt, but hasn't been given all the rules of the game, so her choices are inevitably losing one's until she starts questioning what's happening. She doesn't realise she could go back to her former life where she was happy and successful as a media consultant in politics, and not be a jerk. Being a jerk, is the grubby glamour of her father rubbing off on her, because that's his thing she's trying to emulate with Tom. Monkey see, monkey do, until she grows out of it. Tom's betrayal will create a crisis where she might start to see through her false assumptions, and start reworking them.

[@iside2373]

If you think sexism and misogyny isn't a reccuring theme in her character then you understood nothing of her. Yes she's vile but it's pretty obvious that she's put to an higher standard than her brothers, Logan literally say it to her that her gender disqualify her lol

[@taj5135]

What makes any of these characters vile people? There is deeper context to all of them. Please don’t watch this show mindlessly it ruins the experience

[@Chris-rg6nm]

@@taj5135 Did they look into what harmed each charter or just tried to justify her?

[@CJStew06]

@@BigHenFor "She doesn't realise she could go back to her former life where she was happy and successful"-I don't understand this tendency to give the kid gloves treatment for Shiv-why can't she realize this? Because of her ego, that's why. It's the same reason she has no qualms w cheating on Tom multiple times and torturing his sense of trust and commitment to her. It's also ugly to frame Tom's decision as a "betrayal," when Shiv had demonstrated time and time again that she didn't have his best interests at heart. Tom did what was necessary secure his own position. And he was right.

[@ryanhemesath6686]

The least likable character

[@lindajohnsonkaplan647]

Boss. She’s the worst kind of boss. And partner.

[@NigDickification]

Shiv is the worst

[@chipmunkpark8826]

Shiv is the most like Logan (personality wise)...BUT she lacks the experience Kendall and Roman have. Shiv needs to understand that she needs to keep training and cant become an expert in business in just months

[@jolp9799]

she lacks the exp Kendall has, Roman doesn't have much relevant experience

[@phippskat]

she lacks the experience because she was denied the opportunities handed to them...

[@petermanji8116]

@@phippskat Because she wanted to be something different from her father. Season 1, hello

[@dawnstorm1494]

Roman has very little experience though, he was just handed COO because he asked his dad for it.

[@phippskat]

@@dawnstorm1494 an overgrown toddler lol

[@aainakishore]

I feel shiv on so many levels, everyone in succession is a complex and beautiful character but she's the most pragmatic one. I can even see myself making similar even bigger mistakes like her.

[@gabrielidusogie9189]

I think we’re all like the characters of succession to varying degrees at the end of the day

[@nicestguyinhouse6112]

​@@gabrielidusogie9189 God help us haha

[@potato-whiz]

Shiv is all the ruthlessness of her father without the intelligence.

[@susiem.2068]

@@potato-whiz Exactly. She's the Cercei Lannister of Succession.

[@katie8325]

My god. The character is a psychopathic narcissist!

[@Stellaudemba]

"When she's not physically absent, she's emotionally violent" 😊

[@roguejester4986]

A more accurate term would be "emotionally abusive", "emotional violence" is what is called a veiled threat.

[@coachleif]

One thing I think this video fails to address is how Logan "tests" the vulnerabilities of each of his children. Shiv isn't the only woman on the board, Gerri gets mentioned as CEO and Rhea similarly was offered it. While I fully believe Logan at face value on what he says about Shiv being a woman is a disadvantage, he has also shown more confidence in the women around him and Shiv hasn't been able to capitalize on that opportunity. Shiv, like Kendall and Roman, has failed her tests when it comes to convincing Logan she isn't going to be a liability, and from Logan's PoV if he can beat them at that game, someone else in the business world would be happy to eat them alive at it.

[@cbushin]

Gerri didn't want the job. Roman pointed out that she probably knew something about the job that might interest the siblings.

[@bgos4727]

​@@cbushinthat was literally at the beginning of season 1. In season 4 she was willing to fight if not because of roman

[@ianp5367]

I like how everyone with a clear left leaning see Shiv, "doing the right thing" by working for Gil as proof of her good heart. In actuality most of her decision comes from wanting to hold authority, have the excitement of an affair, and potentially fuck over her Dad in the process purely for "buisness" purposes. Stop framing Shiv's chatacter as some bastion of "hope", doesn't matter what political side you fall on everyone in this show is realistically terrible. That's why it's so good.

[@lizmad8091]

People project morality onto women in our culture. We are relegated to be the moral compass and backseat drivers of the world.

[@jl1836]

What I don't get about this video is why we have to just assume that Shiv is "more ethical" than her brothers. I mean, everyone is equally bad but this video repeats over and over that she's at least "better", but why exactly? I can see that she's better than Roman, but Ken and Connor are just as grey as her. Maybe even better, because Ken was really affected because of the death of the waiter, but Shiv told him it wasn't a big deal, stating something like "he was just a waiter, nobody cares about him". Roman was worse, of course. But Shiv was very cruel too. She was also very cruel with Tom, as a romantic partner she's way more toxic that Connor and Kendall. I think this video just has a gender bias because she's a woman, and we're not used no see women as perpretrators, they always "have to be" a victim. Anyways, the rest of the video is really great. Every insight is on point.

[@birgik]

Ken is the most ethical, for sure.

[@Trix897]

I definitely see some parallels between this family and the one I came from. The difference is that I stopped seeking my father's approval and forged my own path. Looking back, he wasn't worth the grief and I should have cut ties decades ago.

[@philgiordano7715]

While this is a good video and I love me all things Succession, Shiv thought she was too good for management training and then crumbled when put in charge. If she had done the management training and time in a secondary market, like her Kendall and Roman she probably would have been more equipped.

[@CJStew06]

I feel like when people say "Shiv was the most capable" or "Shiv deserved to be CEO," they're unintentionally missing the point of the whole show. And missing the main point as to why Logan never felt comfortable with any of his kids being in charge. It's insulting to the people who actually worked their way up and who have actually been in the trenches, day after day, year after year-like Gerri, Frank, Karl, Karolina, etc. Maybe those characters are products of nepotism, too, we don't know enough about their backgrounds. But we know for a fact that they all have a better grasp than Shiv on what steers the ship.

[@MJ-py7dm]

Thank Goodness for this video. In the community of female watchers of Succession, she is this "bad ass girl boss" when it fact, she displays the behavior of a girl but never a boss.

[@jolp9799]

is shiv supposed to be a girlboss tho? she's a perfect girlfailure (affectionately) and we love her for it!

[@idab9958]

she's supposed to show how and why girlbosses suck, so yeah. (i love her.)

[@cokezerofiend]

@@idab9958 plenty of other actually successful, assertive and intelligent girl bosses in the show. shiv is arguably one of the stand-outs in that manner compared to the other business women in succession. her biggest weakness is that she’s a roy, so she’s pathologically insecure and cruel.

[@discardme222]

I think the term girlboss is not positive anymore (ie: gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss). A girlboss is not a role model but someone who climbs to success at the detriment of others

[@nicestguyinhouse6112]

​@@discardme222 Girl bosses were never a positive thing lol. When do you think it changed from positive to negative can I ask?

[@Wiley224]

Every girl boss is fucking failure fucking around like a whore and thinking she’s valued

[@debbiemoore2747]

Grew up hating my sex due to my childhood. It did more harm than good acting over masculine.

[@AKOuterheaven]

I would love to see you guys cover Kim Wexler from Better Call Saul.

[@RamonGinoJrChan]

Shiv's my favorite character in the show. I hope Sarah will finally get an Emmy this year for her excellent portrayal of this role

[@droughdough]

Why? I mean Sarah Snook is a great actress and deserves the recognition for bringing a character like that to life, but Shiv does stupid shit like her comments at the Argestes panel and she doesn't respect her partner enough to keep him in the loop at the beginning of Kendall's move at the beginning of S3. And she used her perspective as a woman to silence a victim, and she subsequently only wanted to make sure she got credit for that in the rat race. She's a terrible person and not all that interesting.

[@bgos4727]

​@@droughdoughshe is indeed a terrible person,they all are. Yet her duality makes her one of the most interesting of them all.

[@rednemesis88]

I loved her in the movie Predestination.

[@adamjung6104]

The lack of authentic and trusting friendships is evident for all the siblings, but is an extremely glaring weakness for Shiv. We never see her interact with anyone that would be considered a close friend, or anyone of the same sex in a friendly manner. Roman is a good fun socializer, and Kendal is shown to have some friends even though we can question how toxic those friendships are. Shiv leverages and weaponizes her connections, which in turn leads no one to be able to trust her. All the children have serious trust issues which ends up being one of their biggest downfalls. Without trust you cant have authentic relationships, and actually believe you have someone fighting in your corner. The siblings are at their best when they are able to trust each other and work together, Logan knows this and trys to pit them against each other at every opportunity.

[@ginge82]

Isn't the point of Succession to show how handing opportunities to people who don't deserve them creates toxic environments and toxic, broken people? The irony of having every privilege to succeed but that very privilege prevents most from earning it by having the humility to learn and grow is the backbone of the show. The writers spend every season showing us that none of his children can take the job and succeed and Logan realising that is reinforced throughout.

[@aleksisuuronen5969]

This video get's some things that people like to leave out about Shiv right, but it still also frames some things as they really are not. Taking it out of context from the plot and from the characters relationships, what is going on at the spesific time. For one, Shiv have clearly had the best childhood with Connor from what have been heavily hinted. Connor is the first child and has differend mother so he was propably spoiled way too much, that's why then Logan started to instantly mold Kendall into the successor since he propably didn't see it in Connor or was himself too young to even think about it. Yes Shiv was not considered also, but she is propably the only child Logan truly cares to the point of loving her. So she was most likely also spoiled since she was never also considered aka she had time to take it easy. She still did had turmolous relationship with her mother and also grew very resentfull for not being considered as possible successor. Which is why she for one goes into politics and on the lefties side, which all feels very much just to spite Logan.. as is choosing a commoner like Tom as her serious relationship (things that Logan obviously doesn't like At All, especially her being his only daughter). Altough the Tom thing is more complicated and I could go on it fully but it would take a bit. That goes heavily on Shiv's entitlement and needing to feel on top. Anyway it seems like Roman got it easily worst as a kid and it also seems like Ken had to go sometimes in between Roman's abuse when Ken grew up a bit, since Ken partly knew by experience what it's like when Logan got off handle. That's part of the reason why those two don't really boohoo from Shiv getting a bit of scolding from Logan, not because she is a woman and shouldn't have the chance (just more like yeah Shiv, you are getting it easy). More so they two have gotten mental scars from Logan and Shiv is so entitled that she cannot do the minimal (at first) to achieve any position (to be fair as said Shiv have gotten it from the mother until she left). She just thinks she is entitled to the position for thinking as his dad does (who is bias in it) that she is the smartest of them (I'm not so sure she is much smarter than Ken, maybe a bit). To the entitlement. Shiv could have had the company already in S02 if she would have just been a soldier and done what asked and actually do the fast-tracking but she just felt that she needs to be in the big boys room instantly from the get go. She said no to going into Shanghai for a year (which Kendall had done) and when was being fast-tracked in most days just read a magazine and bailed from the office, rather than actually learn what they do and how from bottom up. Then she screwed up in the dinner which was about getting Pierce by saying she is the successor (ofc Logan was having second toughts about her and just at the time seeing where it's going, since even Roman started to seriously learn the business but Shiv had been promised everything and didn't do anything)(also messing with the Pierce deal is a BIG thing to Logan). Then she was feeling herself way too much and showed her public speaking skills aren't business wise on point by making the dinosaur comment and by accident undermining Logan. Then she exactly showed bad business sense by trusting Rhea aka falling into Logan's trap of a trust test by putting the application in into Pierce as some weard leverage after just messing up multiple times. Yes she saves a lot of it at the end of the season, but why would she get a pat on her head when she is coming from minus to plus/neutral, saving herself to even have the change of being the successor. Oh and just to mention the plane scene where they all laugh at Shiv's powerpoint is also very telling how much she had learned about the business with the fast-tracking with Frank (as Roman put it: "Doesn't she know we make rollercoasters and hatespeech". Like meaning the basics of the company.). Then we are at the S03 and she have gotten most of the basics down but still is lacking especially in interacting with people (which is most evident with Tom). Which is the big reason why everything when she isn't listened cannot be put under sexism. In the one scene before she calls daddy, it's just not Carl but also Frank who most defininetly would have hard time taking her seriously for trying to teach her initially in S02 and she puts him into kinda hard spot by leaving and leaving. These two also listen to Gerry all the time no problem. I'm not saying there would't be any underlying sexism, but it's just mostly Shiv being bad with people most of the time. Which comes from that entitled but unsure attitude, selfish and unlikable, demanding without leverage. She does also get a lot of that into better direction but it's one of her biggest flaws. Like when she makes the public letter about Ken and wants Connor and Roman to sign it and they both say in differend words, like it is in business if they give her this, what does she got for them and she just says they are babies. As the last thing to point out is how badly she is selling her presidency candinate to back whome she had the deal of getting her to lead the whole Roy empire.. or how she cannot back away from it even tho it not working, for her own sake for looking better since politics should be her field of expertize (Logan not thinking that there is something wrong in her being so adament about this guy, some play). So Most of what you see isn't being a woman problem but being a Shiv problem. Atleast as first thing, being a woman just doesn't help it at all but that's far away second problem for her. She is a Roy which kinda swipes a lot of the woman problem away. Like Logan also says that who knows these days if a woman can do it. Logan speak about the topic from decades of experience so his opinion is a bit painted with his younger days obviously. These missing pieces Shiv has is just part of where the S03 concluded and S04 starts. All of the 3 siblings make the puzzle whole as together, what one misses, one other or both then has. They just didn't trust each other even an inch before Ken's breakdown where he in a business sense gives a huuuge leverage to use against him, so it kinda lets them open up to become a unit.

[@LauraSomeNumber]

Shiv becomes victim to The glass cliff theory.

[@GDSprodify]

I think this is just an allegory for not walking around with a chip on your shoulder all the time. You have to shed the prejudices of the world and be yourself, who you are but not move like people assume about you because of what you are.

[@its_elkku135]

By the end of Season 3 I felt like Shiv was the least redeemable out of the siblings. She seems to think she's better than her brothers but I think that makes her cruelty even worse. Even though Tom is kind of an asshole himself I feel terrible for him

[@ayan5416]

I think Roman is also terrible because he knows he is but dosent want to change a bit

[@victoryv116]

Shiv is as imperfect as her brother but treated worse than her brother's because she is woman ..that's sumps

[@dragonhero14]

I've got to say, no, she is not treated worse than her brothers. There has been multiple times where the shown has seen Logan angry at choices Shiv makes and he doesn't take it out on her. He takes it out on Kendal and Roman. She's desensitized to the point that she doesn't even react when she sees her brother getting physically abuse. Logan almost never gets angry at her, mad at her, touch(hit) her, or yell at her. When it happens, the look on her face is total surprise and shock. It even surprises the other siblings because of how it almost never happens. Beyond the physical abuse, she doesn't mind or care to throw her brothers under the bus to make herself look better, or to retain her status as the favorite. This is something that all four siblings admit to about her.

[@jaygasper4853]

We have such schadenfreude watching these incredibly unlikable characters crash and burn because they're well acted

[@shibambiswas7021]

Actually all 3 of them are under-qualified.

[@MrOctober44]

Shiv cares and believes in nothing except herself.

[@ceren5212]

10:41 wasn't mencken it was her mom's fiancée

[@coletteleto]

If this is the campaign to the Emmy of Sarah, I'm in 💕✨️👌🏻

[@Black_pearl_adrift]

I still love her

[@shannonharris-ou7tv]

Shiv is NO WHERE as smart as she think she is and thats the real issue