A.B.I.torial: Why Do Fighting Game Stories Suck?

[@ProxyDoug]

Meanwhile in Mortal Kombat: Jacquie: Let's train dad Dad proceeds to rip her leg off and use it to play baseball with her head.

[@joshdrake981]

The Charm of MK 👌

[@TheDarioushurt]

you guys are still trying to pretend to be upset about this shit

[@Lethargy514]

@@TheDarioushurt Yeah you go man, deflect and try to delegitimize everyone's argument as them just pretending since it makes you feel better. I've seen bad ways to handle criticism, but this is just pathetic. You do realize that whether they're pretending or not won't actually change the fact that they're right, don't you? If I say 1 + 1 is 2 in a joking manner, I'm still right, you moron.

[@BestWayKilla]

But please, tell me how it makes so much sense when Ryu has a "friendly" match with his best bud Ken, and then casually uses the same move that mutilated and almost killed Sagat.

[@hiarus8850]

@@BestWayKilla Ken is Not almost dead so you can just assume that Ryu is limiting himself... Meanwhile, i can't just assume that a friendly match in MK between father and daughter Is Just a friendly match Because i can see them cutting each others Heads out and etc

[@chizkek1889]

"Frieza should have blocked Videl's mix ups" had me laughing lmao

[@cnhnx]

Meanwhile Virtua Fighters be like "Story? Just read the manual"

[@miketurley9571]

The 'Syndicate'. And thats it.

[@ugochib]

Probably why it never got that popular after the 90’s 😂😂(at least out of Japan)

[@hussain6469]

Based

[@SeanHiruki]

@@ugochib guess what is about to be popular again.

[@A_B_1917]

@@SeanHiruki Not Virtua Fighter, LMAO.

[@TrueUnderDawgGaming]

Lol it looks like a bunch of players just unlocked Frost and then called it a day XD

[@mrb4783]

most likely though it's not worth it unlocking her since sub zero is already in the game

[@necro-esque666]

@@mrb4783 lol it looks like someone didnt even learn shit about frost XD

[@mrb4783]

@@necro-esque666 Yes imagine laughing at someone for a comment that was made months ago about not playing a character that does not interest people because of how bad she is written making her less applying as a character who also uses some of cyber sub zeros moves.

[@necro-esque666]

@@mrb4783 everyone needs a hobby ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@gabriels9919]

@@necro-esque666 frost is not bad written...lol

[@mediabaron2416]

I think a big issue with fighting game stories is that due to their being a fixed roster with only so many characters, the heroes often outnumber the villains, meaning you either end up fighting the same guy over and over or you keep having really contrived conflicts between the heroes. A lot of games have found ways around this. Dragon Ball Fighterz had the clones and Injustice had the alternate universe evil versions of the heroes. I will admit Street Fighter 5's solution was pretty decent and must have taken some effort, adding in a bunch of NPC fighters and all... But that just made me annoyed because it felt like we were being denied several more playable characters most of whom have semi complete movesets. Yeah, I'm fine not getting a chance to play as random Shadaloo goon number 4. But what about the Dolls? They have unique animations and moves. Several of them have been playable before. Why not just add them to the roster at that point? Then of course, there's Police Officer Peter, but let's face it, if he were playable, we'd never play as anyone else.

[@zeiters2055]

I think it's better when you think of fighting game characters as having their own agendas rather than being villains or heroes. If you try to weave every character into one canonical narrative, it becomes contrived and grating. If you give each character their own canon in which they "win" the tournament, you can each character with more integrity, and create a genuinely good mini story.

[@RJALEXANDER777]

I'd totally play weak characters in versus maches even if they were HILARIOUSLY inferior to the main lineup. "Oh, my incomplete character has 1/3rd the moves and crippling flaws? Well guess what? I'm going to try and BEAT YOU with that character!"

[@jackthegreek6092]

Some people have managed to make them playable. You can check it out on YT.

[@BKsunstar]

only one of the dolls has been playable , you know cammy's look-a-like. the other dolls have been made in some form or other in MUGEN at least

[@Axonn1018]

I personally despised the black and white palette evil clone since most of the time they literally have no character except for the sake of having a fight and it just feels like work. DBFZ's story mode didn't do well for me in many ways but that was personally the worst. Injustice did it better with alternate universes and I think Persona Arena as well with the shadows because it actually calls reference to the source material. SFV was weak in storytelling but I really like the idea of their "half characters". I was surprised when I actually had to fight Peter the Cop or the Dolls since I thought I was gonna just be watching a cutscene. MK10 did do that as well but it also ran into the problem you mentioned of heroes to villains ratio. I feel like everyone has fought Reptile/Erron/Ferra/Ermac at some point because they're the jobbers. And MK9 had Reptile or Baraka as the punching bag.

[@voltekka47]

Speaking of character interactions in fighting games, in KoF 98, Daimon's earthquake move can "hit" the characters on the opposing team who are in the background. They'll all fall on their backs when Daimon does the move, except for Kyo, who jumps to avoid the quake instead.

[@thetruejerrycan]

I think Benimaru also jumps over it, incredible detail by SNK

[@meyes5671]

God-tier attention to detail

[@Ramsey276one]

Of course his teammates know and are ready to jump when they see it coming!

[@carlbloke8797]

Me Yes indeed

[@LuffyBlack]

I felt like 98 had the most detail into it.

[@duchi882]

1:52 - *When you thought the reference was a mistake* but then after a few seconds you finally realize the joke

[@mahiru20ten]

I lost my shit after realizing that lol

[@Reydriel]

Even without the reference, the devs that made that scene HAD to know just how suggestive that looked lmao

[@OwO377]

@Reydriel it like accidently make by pure coincidence.

[@theteioh05]

How can you not give KOF it's due in terms of storytelling? A series where the previous installment actually has consequences to the storyline, the characters involved (RIP New Faces team), and even their movesets?

[@tornadoandy123]

@Goliath Online You tried way too hard with that joke.

[@omgcandy16Kimicari0]

KOF's storytelling value is inherently defanged by the fact that the most popular entries in the series are the dream match games.

[@BellowDGaming]

I agree they had Iori and Sei Shu lost their fire and ki at one point in the story to the next installment, also him saying Jin changed fighting style, Kyo almost every KOF has a new fighting style narratively saying he's improving, clones where created for those who missed the old fighting styles. Even Robert became a charge character at one point with more damage output.

[@draingaming4518]

new faces team will be back in XV. shermie and chris were there in the background of kof 12 stages. so after verse's death it's almost certain they're coming back 🙂

[@rockmenx8xx411]

KOF's storytelling is still some of the worst out of any fighting game. How the hell do make a crossover game that's a spin off of your 1st fighting game and have some of your most iconic characters lose to a bunch of band new nobodies?

[@WraxTV]

I mean if ya wanna have permanent deaths in stories and still maintain versus mode, just do like Real Bout Fatal Fury Special and give the dead characters a halo on character select so everyone understands "Yeah, they're dead, but we'll still let you play them." Hell, even better, Nightmare Geese, where the logic is literally "You are literally having a nightmare, that's why Geese is here despite being dead." Old SNK was also really good about having characters make dramatic changes to their move set a la T4 Jin, but still let you play the old version. Kyo changes his fighting style completely after fighting Goenitz and realizing his old style isn't going to cut it anymore, but you can still select Kyo by holding start and get his old style.

[@sir_will_iam]

I loved the way Tekken 5 handled it's story mode. It wasn't anything cinematic with cutscenes between each fight,. It was just a mode where each character has their own reason for being in the game and you follow along in that story until you get to the ending cinematic that suits the character's theme and motivation, ranging from epic to sad to silly. Very simple.

[@Tony-oh]

THIS

[@LockeGran]

The only problem with Tekken is that most endings aren't canon. Even with T5, more than 5 endings literally started with the characters beating Jinpachi which definitely isn't canon because Jin was the one who beat him. Some others are alright, especially the joke one, but some that seems important just glossed over in the next game. Like Hwoarang should have one of his eye hurt by Devil Jin in T5 but nothing happened to him in T6 and it's only addressed in T7. T4 was the only one where the story focus was good.

[@sir_will_iam]

@@LockeGran You're absolutely right. They tend to retcon the stories of their characters a lot in the main timeline. I mean Tag is fine because it's a spinoff. But a bit of consistency in the main story would be great. As much as 7 is my favourite right now, and I'm saying this as a fan of the franchise, they really dropped the ball on the other characters stories. Boiling most of the down to joke characters. Like remember when Yoshimitsu and Bryan were rivals? Or the moral ambiguity that Eddy battled with for working for Kazuya?

[@xStizzy]

I loved how there was always a fight in the middle that usually related to their reason for entering the tournament. It even had a unique intro, and unique scenes for both winning and losing the fight.

[@TonyMishima92]

@@sir_will_iam Been saying this same thing. Sometimes less is more. They need to go back to the T4-T5 formula, but just add more content to the individual narratives.

[@strippinheat]

My biggest issue with fighting game stories is that the developers allow the story mode to dictate character roster. Like, "This character died in the last game, or we can't think of a way to included them in the narrative, so we'll just exclude them." Or worse, when a character HAS to be included because of fan demand, so they toss them in story mode in such an awkward and pointless way. Like, "This character died in the last game, but people like him so I guess he's a zombie now, or that scene is a flashback, or whatever." And that's why NRS story modes can get fucked. Joker is dead in the world where Injustice 2 takes place but they MUST include him since it would be weird to have Batman and Harley without Joker, I guess, so they can say the one you play in versus is from the other universe (which they do say), but in the story he appears in one scene and it's a hallucination (and he looks completely different). Green Arrow is dead in that universe, but they bring the one in the game over from a THIRD universe. Meanwhile, Shazam is dead only in that universe and just gone from the game. Then you have MKX making the kombat kids out to be the new guard, yet 50% of them don't even appear in MK11 at all. SF5 added Necali to the story as a puddle of mud that attacks Ryu because they couldn't think of any better way to shoehorn him in, but they made the character sooooo... And then there's zombie Nash. And the game doesn't have those little pre-fight scenes that really set the tone for the self-contained narrative like in almost every SF before it. It does have post-fight dialog, but most are just completely out of context. I think Jin's fighting style change worked out for the better because it allowed them to bring back Kazuya and Devil Jin and you didn't end up with a bunch of clones while still having the characters in the games. SNK has also tweaked characters a lot so their moveset is gone, like Terry in MotW or Robert in every KoF, so you have to pick between sticking with the "character" or finding a new "function" to play. And that's why they will sometimes include EX versions of characters, like All the Kyo clones, which they sometimes even fit into the narrative.

[@Aquatj999]

Yeah, why can’t we just have characters who are cool and there for the sake of being there? I get wanting to include them into the story, but if you really can’t, why not just have them on the roster but not in story mode? O_o

[@guilhermefranco2930]

@@Aquatj999 People keep sucking NRS's dick and saying they have the best story mode in the gender. But it's one of the worst. The story chapter means villains never win and that the strength levels are inconsistent. SF V has a bad story. But a good story mode idea. Every character gets at least a win and you can fight against minions and stuff. WHY DON'T MORE GAMES MAKE THIS?

[@harlannguyen4048]

Don't forget about DOA6's story mode, where it has multiple things going on at once. That way, you don't have to get all the characters involved in the main plot.

[@frozezone2947]

@@harlannguyen4048 doa 5 story mode was like that to

[@darkzeroprojects4245]

Why can it not dictate?? It to me would end up meaning we keep getting the same characters over n over with little change or the Story having any impact at all. Hence why I hated that MK 11 brought back amost every roster mainly of Mk1-2 with few missing and few mk3 while putting them back in the limelight and shoving back the newer stuff using TIME QUAKE as a excuse with a new villan to try to reset and not commit to the ideas. Also sometimes it becomes annoying that when say a version of a character that the non story modes potray as the DEFAULT are not in the story or are thrown aside like Scorpion and SUb zeros "defaults" and "Dark Raiden" getting yeeted off the story for his Mk2 era form.

[@RosemaryWitch4]

I always liked in the kof games when I saw some unique pre fight animation (Mai tricking Andy into thinking she had a child or Chizuru showing some sort of mirror to Kyo). It adds some personality to the fight, and establishes relationships in a very cool way

[@kevingriffith6011]

I think the solution to the "vast ensemble story" problem is just to tell more than one story. By having multiple unrelated plotlines you have a reason for someone like Zangeif, a guy who's in it for sport, to remain in the game when the story is about a team of Interpol agents seeks to undermine the efforts of an evil dictator and has nothing to do with a fighting tournament. If you've got a fighting tournament story, you don't need to contrive a reason for R.Mika to go off to a secret base and deal with the "save the world" plot. If you do it right, you can have events in one story effect the other, since they're happening concurrently. Maybe Balrog and Ed are in the tournament, but something happens in a different plotline and they have to drop from the tournament at an unexpected moment. Such like that.

[@Aquatj999]

As an added benefit of your model, the world gets more fleshed out. From the outside looking in, Ryu, Akuma, Gouken, Gen, Chun-Li, Guile, and Bison seem like people the world revolves around. Having personal stories of characters like Zangief just so happen to intersect with other characters’ stories helps the world feel simultaneously cohesive and broad :O

[@boxtupos7718]

That kinda happened in Arcsys' old games Guilty Gear and Blazblue has story modes where the focus is on different characters, who they fight will differ. And in BB's case it alternate timelines, with a little bit of changes in those timelines, like how Hazama was consistently able to capture Noel and how Ragna is always going to fight Hazama; But there are points in the timeline that Noel might've ran away from Bang or decided to stay and explain the situation.

[@Overhazard]

If I recall correctly, Skullgirls does this. Different characters have different reasons to go around fighting. Beowulf, for instance, literally fights for no reason other than that he can, while most of the rest of the cast are fighting either to save the world, to destroy it, or to survive. He intersects with the rest of the cast by picking fights with them, and once it's over, win or lose, he just moves on.

[@harlannguyen4048]

DOA6 has this as well.

[@lssjgaming1599]

I like how Jojo Heritage for the Future’s PS1 port has a full adaptation of part 3 Stardust Crusaders, and some of the Dragon Ball fighting games retell the original story of the anime and manga.

[@charliemulcahy9200]

I don’t think that removing story mode and just having character interactions should be the way to convey storytelling in fighting games. Instead the interactions should be made apart of the story alongside character dynamics with each other like rivalries or friendships which help flesh out the characters more. Though I like the idea of having story based events that weakens or strengthens the characters based on the current situation which makes them unable to use their abilities which makes the fight harder for the player. My personal favourite example of this in story modes would be Ragna vs Hazama in blazblue continuum shift where Ragna is unable to use the blazblue due Hazama using he own stronger blazblue to deactivate his soul eater, in this fight you have to take on unlimited Hazama without the use of your powers and can only use your punches and kicks while he can use all of his attacks and new ones exclusive to his unlimited form, his drive is also consistently active throughout the fight and allows him to not only have complete control of the battlefield with his chains allowing him to close the gap between him and Ragna but also give him the ability to steal your health slowly whenever he is close to you. Making it impossible for the player to do any lasting damage to him. It gives a sense of powerlessness to the player that is portrayed not only by the story but also by the gameplay and makes the dynamic with the characters apart of the story and the story apart of the actual game without having it be only in a cutscene.

[@Overhazard]

Having some form of single-player mode is also necessary for people who have just started playing to be eased into the game and its mechanics. As it stands, fighting games have a "wall of learning" newcomers have to overcome. A good, robust single-player mode turns it more into an incline. Dissidia Final Fantasy (the original one) and Duodecim executed this pretty well. I won't say anything about the story one way or another, but every battle was functionally a tutorial on how a character works or how to counter something that might feel daunting if you're not familiar with it. It also gives a multitude of opponents to fight via a clone army of sorts. For instance, one battle has the AI opponent spam one character's combo over and over and do literally nothing else except move, but it has only 1 HP, so it'll be knocked out the moment you learn how to counterattack. Another one might break any guarding or shielding you use--but again have just 1 HP, and hence it teaches you how to find openings without blocking.

[@charliemulcahy9200]

@@Overhazard yeah I think that using a single player mode to learn the fundamentals of the characters is a good way to teach new players how the game works without making it too handholdly.

[@DrakenGunslinger]

Oh god, I hated fighting Unlimited Hazama...

[@darkzeroprojects4245]

There should be no end all,but I agree on this.

[@rabronin]

"A fight is a story." Too bad not many fighting games these days realise that.

[@seadx6]

What about SNK? What about the Art of fighting - Garou mark of the wolves or the alternative universe of KOF? In my opinion at least in the 90s SNK was the king of stories

[@freedomkme]

Not the point.

[@cciwaltwls]

@@freedomkme 100% his point. As an SNK fan, it's both appalling (not seeing my favorite 20+ game saga represented in a video about good storytelling in videogames, which I got hooked on entirely for the story) and refreshing (because the video is about bad story telling, which KOF doesn't have)

[@blaze6477]

The ash saga was really good aswell. In my opinion the best KOF saga.

[@seadx6]

In my opinion SNK should be ranked along with the too fighting games with the best storytelling

[@carlbloke8797]

cciwaltwls true

[@Altar360]

11:32 “This doesn’t mean that Videl is now stronger canonically than Frieza, it’s that in this instance she managed to beat him” (I’m paraphrasing here). YES!! This extends to when a weaker character manages to doge an attack or land a hit. Suddenly the fanbase goes all “ugh! They ignoring the power scaling now! How can Krillin stand up to (insert character here)?” It’s not that he can beat the guy, that’s not what the show is implying...

[@TupocalypseShakur]

Someone tell that to Mortal Kombat fans

[@eem2wavy133]

Nah you missed the point. It doesn’t matter if krillin can beat “ insert here” character it’s the fact that krillin reacted to the “insert here” character in the first place. Unless Frieza is holding back would blizt the shit out of krillin

[@eem2wavy133]

@@TupocalypseShakur nah mortal kombat is just inconsistent. It makes zero sense that Kitana beat shao kahn

[@torormseth]

I think garou: mark of the wolves has a pretty great story, even though it is very small and to be honest not well translated. This is because each character has their own reason for being in southtown at that time and it generally goes beyond just wanting to be the strongest fighter or whatever. The characters are all interesting, despite being a completely new cast outside of Terry Bogard, and everybody has a memorable and unique ending sequence after they have defeated the final boss. This is probably because the game only contains a paltry fourteen characters, but I think it is a good example of a story that is told well through its characters.

[@hasi706]

This post is a year old but I agree. I think fighting games generally lend themselves better to smaller scale, character driven tournament plots. I think Garou is an example of a game that plays to the strengths of the genre

[@SuzakuX]

I actually love the idea behind _BlazBlue's_ visual novel-inspired story modes. Yes, they're convoluted and a bit hard to follow, but they're also meticulously planned out and intentionally integrate and lampshade the various perceived fighting game story drawbacks. The characters are caught in a time loop, and so all story paths and endings are technically canon, as minor variations in the loop arising from the laws of probability, until the true ending actually breaks the loop. The sequel then progresses the story forward and introduces alternate timelines, which serve the same function; at one point Hakumen even cuts through spacetime and observes one of his own alternate endings. As the series goes on, they continue toying with these concepts and the overall presentation as necessary. Is it a perfect story? No. But there is a lot to dig into, and it all generally holds up under scrutiny.

[@darkzeroprojects4245]

Personally never liked Visual Novel formats personally...Feel hardly amusing...But just me.

[@demonic-deadbeat3212]

I'm still trying to figure out how Jade & Kotal were a thing. lol

[@ryanm.8720]

Kotal never brought up his relationship with Jade in the comics or MKX (not even in his intro dialogue with Kitana does he state that he knew Jade personally), but MK11 makes a huge deal about it. Also, why is Jade in love with someone who is of another (humanoid) species?

[@Blittsplitt5]

@@ryanm.8720 Wtf does the species matter??? Lmao he's basically a fucking human, there's very little discernable difference between them. And isn't Jade an Outworlder anyway??

[@ryanm.8720]

@@Blittsplitt5 Jade was born in Edenia. Though she could still qualify as an Outworlder, since she resides there.

[@ryanm.8720]

@Embodiment of destruction I forgot that Kotal fancied D'vorah before her betrayal until you brought it up. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mHLYfXiViduMfLM kzbin.info/www/bejne/mISZiY15brJ4h80

[@gamefreakDX]

I've played Rachel Alucard for a short while and I never noticed she doesn't directly take a hit ever. That's funny.

[@Overhazard]

I first suspected something was up when I noticed Rachel's "knocked out" appearance is her just sitting on the ground with her ASSISTANTS knocked out instead. So I took a closer look and realized they were taking all the damage.

[@pabloosset2533]

Honestly, one fighting game with a story I liked was BlazBlue: Central Fiction. Sure there's tons of anime bullshit and overcomplicated concepts, lots of things that could and should be explained aren't, and many characters aren't that great... But, goddammit, that story has an emotional core with Ragna. Seeing him try so so goddamn hard despite nothing in his life going right, leading to its heartbreaking conclusion was a rollercoaster. Also Kagura vs Azrael was surprisingly badass.

[@Overhazard]

Might help that BlazBlue was originally supposed to be a JRPG, but it was changed into a fighting game without changing the story much.

[@thomasthecoolkid7228]

One problem with CF's story mode was the complete removal of special story mode gimmicks, like characters being rid of certain tools or being in Unlimited Mode. Imagine how much better the final battle against Susano'o would be if it was Unlimited Ragna VS Unlimited Susano'o.

[@harristhesecondcomin]

Background music doesn't sound right without hearing "Spidey Sting" "Venom Fang" or "Goodnight Sugah".

[@eddiecatron9701]

I was hoping to hear Raven's "orgasmic paralyzation" referenced along with the characters that are too strong to lose. "You didn't win, you just hurt him... to completion."

[@Flawless-Walrus]

I actually really liked the story modes in Soul Calibur 6. Each character has their own narrative path shown on a timeline, and the Libra of Soul mode used the context of a custom character to frame a lot of the story. The dialogue choices, and inclination towards Soul Edge or Soul Calibur helps a lot, and because the fights against canon characters are started outside of the fight within the story, it lets the characters shine a lot more.

[@ragingningen6318]

especially the hwang one i think that's the best one

[@romiarkan450]

I sunk way too many hours into Libra of Soul because it's a story mode for our OC

[@OccuredJakub12]

One aspect of storytelling that goes unnoticed a lot of the time: Stages! Character-specific stages can tell you a lot about the character it represents. You wouldn't guess Guile was an Air Force pilot if his stage didn't have a plane. Same for King in Tekken 2 and his church stage. Sakura's home from Alpha 2 shows that she lives a lower-middle class life. Vega's cage dropping down changes the fight from a fair brawl to a sudden dirty fight where the player is handicapped. Seeing your teammates in KOF games cheer you on or lick their wounds makes the fights feel more meaningful and adds a nice way to characterize these personalities further. One of my favourite stages in fighting games is the final boss stage for Tekken 2. It starts out with just an endless black void and a luxurious carpet, setting a creepy stage for the fight with the now-antagonist Kazuya. And then, in round 2 it goes balls-to-the-walls with these infinite mirrors and Devil Jin and the music getting more dramatic: it was a revolutionary technique for the times but it still carries the impact to this day!

[@BadassOverlord]

The Touhou fighting games do a really good job with story mode. Fighting a giant catfish and riding a volcanic eruption will always be memorable.

[@StellaEFZ]

People actually played those? I'm pretty sure I have 500-400~h ish of Soku and I haven't touched story mode since

[@lasatar6428]

By giving the boss characters multiple health bars and attacks that you can never actually do in normal gameplay, the Touhou fighting games manage to make their battles way more memorable than the majority of games in the genre. Who the hell is going to forget Tenshi riding the giant catfish through space while shooting screen-filling lasers? Or Sumireko fading into a black shadow while the entire screen warps around you and you're assaulted by all seven of the urban legend effects at once? Or Suika literally shattering the HUD to the point where you can't even see your health bar? Definitely not me, I'll tell you that.

[@rezafahlevi9659]

@@lasatar6428 I need a link for all of that you mention, since its been a long time i played touhou fighting games

[@megasoniczxx]

@@rezafahlevi9659 I know this is way late but i'd also like to know what this fighting game is, it sounds fun.

[@Rodri34451]

@@rezafahlevi9659 For the last one you can check Suika's boss fight in IaMP. Her last spell card does that.

[@BruhSpammer90]

i know people here hate NRS but my god the character intros is something every fighter should do

[@unhaix707]

Idk why they go so far out of their way to shit on NRS.

[@Garupan]

Because that costs a lot of money. Plus you can see them reuse voice lines so they couldn't think of everything. KoF XIII's and SVC Chaos had text instead of that shit so that would be the only other viable solution but otherwise generic intros are gonna have to work.

[@boxtupos7718]

@@Garupan Guilty Gear has sweet character introductions though. KOF 13 has pretty well written dialogue for the most part; My favorite being Terry talking with K'.

[@suddenllybah]

.... Let's be honest, only MKX does it good of the NRS games. having just 2 animation sets per character, and them be matched to the (opening, comment, response) lines looks good having to repurpose the animations for work for both sides of the conversation and making mirror matches god awful to look at is not good.

[@sledgehammersssssquad3624]

Hmm, a lot of the dialogue in those is noticably nonsensical, though. It's a cool idea, but when a lot of the characters don't actually have clear reasons to justifiably fight each other, it just leaves me going "wuh? huh?" rather than getting hyped for an epic battle. Especially with MK11's, there's way too much friendly dialogue, and "let's spar" framing just doesn't make sense for that gameplay. And then they start reusing old voice lines when the DLC characters come out and it just gets even more awkward and surreal. Honestly, I think the overblown and excessive intros and outros in Guilty Gear Xrd are my favourite. Nothing gets me hyped for a match like Baiken's intro. But I've gotta give a shout-out to Skullgirls. Whenever you get a knockdown, your character has a relatively large amount of match-up specific insults that they throw at the opponent, and the opponent gets a retort voice line if they tech roll. So the entire fight has this banter woven all throughout it.

[@shadowofdimentio4618]

If I could swap story mode for interactions between EVERY character, I'd do so in a heartbeat. It's way more interesting seeing Cooler call out Frieza or for Rachel to tease Ragna when they're on the same team then to see a large amount of exposition for an all powerful evil I don't care about too much outside their personality, design and motivations which are all present in good movesets anyway. Cross tag battle is the best at this and the reason I love it. So many team ups that bring me so much joy

[@Zachary_Sweis]

3:05 I get the point that story completion is a pretty low percentage of the player base, but 3.8M players to complete a story mode in a genre where story is at the bottom of the list of desired features is pretty damn good, when most fighting games would kill to have 3.8M in sales in their first year. I understand the point of the video, and I agree whole heartedly, especially when considering MK11 is the current best-case scenario. I'm just saying I was actually pleasant surprised to see those numbers.

[@migueeeelet]

I recall that someone complained about the absurdity of Mortal Kombat, specially MK 11's story and that scene with Sonya Blade and Cassie Cage. Cassie is about to get promoted, her mother Sonya is proud of her and that shows. Just one last spar, give the troops a show and Cassie gets to prove herself. It feels heartwarming. Then the battle starts and Cassie puts a few bullets in her mother's heart, and Sonya retaliates with a chainsaw from the environment. And that's why MK 11's combat felt forgettable between the movie cutscenes. It's too over the top. A lot of actions that should've finished the battle are taken, and thus you don't pay much more attention to it than to a progress bar, because you know that even if you were to constantly snap Skorpion's arm, it wouldn't matter until the post-battle cutscene said otherwise..

[@aki3128]

I like how Blazblue Calamity Trigger (and only Calamity Trigger) has the "every fight is canon" mentality in its story mode because of the time loop, and that every win and every loss has a cutscene related to it (even if some repeat themselves). It honestly felt refreshing, and I was disheartened that the rest of the franchise didn't follow it up.

[@Mario1080p]

Makes me honestly glad Smash Ultimate didn't put too much effort in making a full blown story mode with a roster that massive. I agree a fight itself is more than enough.

[@MrAuthor3DS]

Yeah. True, Subspace Emissary was kinda grander in scale, but...much like in modern NRS games, a lot of characters got the short end of the stick by...merely just being there and not having much personal impact on the story. Ike, Yoshi, Ice Climbers, Olimar...The list can go on.

[@JohnSmith-co1zv]

@@MrAuthor3DS Ike defused a Subspace bomb, but I mean, you could always play the sections as him first, to be honest, only a few characters get priority to the story, (the Kirby characters) but that's only for a while.

[@Overhazard]

I genuinely miss Subspace Emissary.

[@dicksonmattxenoblade6491]

I will say that I do kind of like how Pokemon Trainer only starts with Squirtle and has to get his other Pokemon later on in the story, but after that, yeah he does kind of get shafted in terms of story.

[@ryanaing5302]

What about Skullgirls? Each fighter there has their own self-contained story mode and the story itself isn’t that big.

[@SubrosianDimitri]

Things Them's Fightin Herds' story mode does that remedies your issues: - Predator fights that break up the exploration and serve to teach the player about mixups and playstyles, on top of being the reason the story kicked off at all. - Suped up fights against other cast members to serve as boss fights instead of regular bouts that you could just have outside story mode. - Story plays out like an old RPG or adventure game when not in fights, with platforming sections done in the fight screen, overworld puzzles, and optional content. Game not mentioned at all -_-

[@oneslickhero4276]

well its not from japan and he tends to give anything not from japan less of the time and day that and he may have thought the fighting pony game was weird and didn't want to try it

[@Cuchufreta]

I was also waiting him to say something about that game.

[@cciwaltwls]

Imagine my disappointment when not a single SNK game was mentioned

[@laterboi4528]

@@cciwaltwls but what does snk does different than any other game any other game he mentioned tho? Kof14 story mode is like mk11 but less cinematic

[@EnvyMizuhashi]

I'm pretty sure it's as simple as him not having played it yet.

[@ChromeDaimao]

This makes me think of a match I had in tenkaichi 3. The cell games had this wild mechanic in that game where, as you played, cell essentially had a learning AI that scaled to your ability to fight him; the more ass you kicked and the more technical your gameplay, the more powerful and technical cell became in response (this game is a criminally underrated legendary treasure of a game that most people simply don't actually understand how to play). I had been doing cell games all day and by the time my roommate got home from work I had managed to buff cell up to absolute god tier. His moveset had gotten intricately complex and his timing was savagely precise, which was always the point where I would have my favorite fights with him; he genuinely became difficult to defeat, even winning the match against me sometimes. My friend arrived right at the moment when I had completed the tournament and was about to start the fight with cell himself. The battle that ensued was so vicious my friend literally choked on his lunch at one point because the counters and vanishes were so tight and continuous that cell and I would both run out of energy, resulting in an exhausting back and forth as we struggled to recover and keep combos going. The arena was utterly destroyed from rush clashing, power blows, and beam clashes, and in the end I pulled off a victory with less than 10% health remaining as piccolo. As the smoke cleared and Piccolo taunted "I hail from the house of the great demon king..." in japanese, my friend gasped and coughed out his sandwich to excitedly exclaim "holy shit dude, that fight was fucking straight canon right there. I have officially seen the episode where piccolo fought perfect cell, goddamn."

[@Night-Call]

But kof tho!! how can you not mention kof it has 3 big arcs finished and the 4th is just starting, each arc has its own protagonist and each villain has a reason for their motives. When it comes to guilty gear the way they tell the story may not be the best but the story itself is actually good with some depth to it. P.S I might be bias because these two games are my very first into the fighting game genre but i still believe the stories are good compared to other fighting games

[@nurandika4563]

Fantastic storytelling and Metaverse can't help us from the amazing SNK English.

[@voltekka47]

He's not talking about whether it's good or not, he's talking about how the stories take advantage of the fact that they're videogame stories.

[@WikiHL]

@@nurandika4563 it took us like +30 years, but we're finally there: acceptable translations

[@RoninCatholic]

My personal idea for a fighting game story is that it _is_ a simple tournament with a large amount of prize money. No secret mad science or plots of world conquest from the host, just lots of money on the line. No world shattering stakes, just people punching each other and the winner gets money. Like an aggressive anti-advancement in storytelling.

[@ClexYoshi]

I really hope I'm not going to have to reply to this comment by the end of this video with a "Play Them's Fightin' Herds Story Mode! it's actually super good!" comment.

[@ClexYoshi]

DAMNIT, A.B.I., I have to make a "Play Them's Fightin' Herds Story Mode!" comment! Yes, the Vs. elements you say are all there. Pom realistically should never win a match with her frantic flailing and such, but her win quotes frame it as her feeling like she got lucky or her dogs just went in so hard on her behalf that she managed to eke out a victory. Paprika is treated like being in combat with a Tex Avery cartoon who the NPCs in story mode all fear for her fourth-wall breaking nonsense and the fact that even when you beat her, she's got a big, doofy smile on her face like she found the whole thing fun while the other cast members see it as a struggle for their lives, lest they be crush hugged and drowned in Alpaca floof. Them's Fightin' Herds has a wonderful story mode through that uses it's mechanics to teach players and put them in dramatic situations that expresses emotions perfectly. Before the fight with Velvet the pompous zoning reindeer begins, you the player as Arizona have been subjected to rude NPC after rude NPC as the xenophobic and hedonistic folk of Reine City give quite the chilly reception to the little cow calf that could only to meet Velvet, have Pumpkin Spice cider spit into your cow's face, and then have her hautily declare herself the true champion and you just a plebian. Of course, the fight starts like a normal Vs. match, you're having to deal with Velvet keeping you out and making smug passes along the way, only for when she starts to get roughed up and have her beautiful visage touched to start doing things like activate a wind that constantly pushes you away so she can continue to do rude lame zoner things to you, and eventually turns into a bit where she kicks up the wind so strong that it pans the camera back to make full screen WAY Farther back than it was, only for the wind to start pelting you with this high/low mixup zoning nonsense while pushing you back! At this point, most players who don't have the patience to deal with zoning are probably fuming, getting impatient and rushing in just to try and end it, less they get chipped out by the hailstorm coming their way. Never mind that this super ultra ice tornado attack where she pushes you way back and shoots projectiles is very highly telegraphed and is probably the easiest phase in this 3 part boss fight. If you haven't had the chill to be patient, it can catch you off guard having to suddenly go from a normal fight to suddenly having to play what feels more like a platforming mini game or dealing with Lowain Yggdrasil nonsense than an actual fight. There's an even better example of this in the 4th chapter, but... A.B.I., I'd deeply encourage you to check it out itself, check out some of the hurdles the animation team had to overcome to make quadrupeds kicking each other in the face read clearly in silhouette, and... really, enjoy the story. If nothing else, the story mode and much of the game's lore WAS overseen by Lauren Faust herself, even if she let the team do the animation and fill in a lot of the smaller gaps from her outline!

[@ikagura]

Why?

[@erkicman]

@@ClexYoshi Them's Fightin' Herds wins again Also, I'd like to hear A.B.I's opinion on RPG overworlds framing the fighting game story

[@RJALEXANDER777]

@@ClexYoshiThem's Fighting Herds is made by a team of fighting game fans, and their passion and understanding of the genre really shows. The game is one of the most competent fighting games that money can buy. Pretty bloody impressive for an indie game with a minuscule budget and creative crew compared to the big companies.

[@Aquatj999]

Not to mention the small platforming challenges which teach you how to use short hops and super jumps, the mook enemies who teach you things like proper anti-airs, blocking mixups, dealing with zoning, controlling space yourself, etc. As for the character boss fights, what’s so amazing about them is that phase 2 and 3, especially in the Velvet fight, test the same skills and strategies that work against the character in a normal match. As a Velvet main, when I got to the boss fight, I jumped forward while air-blocking a lot, did my best to keep tons of pressure on Velvet, and knew how to avoid and deal with all of her tools. It felt so easy because Arizona’s my worst matchup thus far, and I know what to fear from the cow, and getting in some role reversal is brilliant ❤️

[@artemis1993]

Let's not forget everything turns into a shoddy excuse to start a fight, no matter how small it is. DOA is especially guilty of this. "Whoa, you bumped into me?! YOU ARE GOING DOWN"

[@markmorales7958]

You think we’ll ever get a chance to play as the villain(s) against the hero(es) to establish their dominance in a fighting game story mode, instead of having us go through the “you won but you actually lost” gimmick….?

[@Kiladahut]

I love how sometimes Games have a in-universe "Mimic" character that can fill the boots of a same character matchup. And bonus points if there is some pre-fight banter showing that the Mimic knows the game is up and stops pretending.

[@yareyare8235]

Glad SNK didn't follow this film tendency. In KOF every character has his interactions with those relevant to him and every team has its own ending. It means more than MK cinematics.

[@harlannguyen4048]

From one of the trailers, it does seem that KOF15 will have a cinematic story mode, but knowing SNK they'll probably handle it better than NetherRealm.

[@CurlyHairedRogue]

The narratives of my games always involve winning by succumbing to instinct, or losing because I got inside my own head. Maybe I need to play more characters that are accidental badasses.

[@drakeredgrave6747]

6:41 from what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) lambda DOES have very similar animations(maybe even identical besides color) but the functions are different, lambda is more close range while nu is long range(or something among those lines)

[@everardoatondopellegaud8075]

1:52 I didn't know that Superman and Green Lantern appears in The Last Of Us Part II, now that game sounds interesting maybe I will buy it.

[@SpikeJet2736]

If I was tasked to write a story for a fighting game. I'd probably look to something like Pulp Fiction or Snatch for inspiration at least as a starting place. A bunch of different stories and characters with their own motivations but there's a thematic parallel that ties all these stories together

[@zeeder7975]

Kyo, Iori, Chizuru vs Orochi is still more memorable to this day

[@gustyko8668]

I think "games trying too hard to be movies" is something that affects pretty much all modern games in general. 😕

[@tylercafe1260]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Metal Gear Solid is an amazing series. You listen to too many braindead simpletons on KZbin. Why have games even evolved recently is explicitly because that we can tell real stories in our games now. You can hate RDR2 without blaming Realism in Videogames as if it's a poison.

[@zeallexandre]

??? The cinematography of mk1 is revolutionary, far superior to many action films. Films should learn from games

[@KingOfDarknessAndEvil]

​@@tylercafe1260I don't think he was specifically calling out metal gear buddy

[@k3nny]

5:10 Yeah Skarlet might as well be absent and give screentime to someone else... but blood magic bro, that cool as hell

[@phillipjohnson8903]

Fatalities in Mortal Kombat have a LOT of explaining to do based on this video.

[@novikovPrinciple]

Fatalities are an unfortunate chain binding MK. For all that NRG has managed to achieve in making coherent, cutscene-based story, it's all ruined when, as A.B.I. said in a previous video, characters on friendly or familial terms just straight up MERC each other.

[@originalscreenname44]

Or worse yet, X-rays/Fatal Blows. Most of those are fatalities in their own right, yet the character that gets hit with it just gets back up and brushes off snapped bones, broken necks, impalement, massive blood loss, etc.

[@phillipjohnson8903]

@@originalscreenname44 yeah, i wish the X Ray's were more like MK 9. They were severe, sometimes mortal injuries but it was plausible that you could power through them in a life or death struggle.

[@Jackrost01]

Samsho make it better

[@TonyTheTGR]

There's also a lot of talk about RPG mechanics and customization power-ups having no place in a standardized vs game; and while that could be true for the PvP aspect, it could also be TREMENDOUSLY REWARDING as a single-player experience/mode. I'm still waiting for a day when a Final Fantasy plot/world takes place and the random encounters are literally just a fighting game.

[@SpawnG2G]

The Naruto Storm games do have REALLY GOOD fights on its story mode. The 5 kages VS Madara boss fight from Storm 3 is ingraved in my mind to this day

[@normalasian5042]

YES

[@marveler8994]

Theyre not fighting games and they didnt make them

[@dattos140]

@@marveler8994 what defines a fighting game? Atleast in your opinion? For me a fighting game is a game where two people or a player and an ai can fight against eachother. So I consider arena fighters as fighting games.

[@voltekka47]

@@dattos140 That definition's way too broad. By this logic, is For Honor a fighting game? Two people or a player and an AI can fight against each other in that game.

[@Rhannmah]

@@dattos140 No, this is not an acceptable definition of fighting games because "a game where two people or a player and an ai can fight against eachother" can apply to a HUGE chunk of video games in general. Fighting games are games in which players take control of a single entity and engage in combat on a flat 2D plane without significant terrain features to obstruct them.

[@YourCrazyDolphin]

I really liked how SCVI handled its story mode, while we're here. Somewhat of a problem in fighting game stories is the characters, some have to be shafted or absent... In Soul Calibur, each character has their own unique weapon. You make your own character, and their style changes based on what weapon you choose, so you can effectively play as the entire cast with some small changes based on your height (shorties hit harder, tall hits farther). It also takes advantage of messing with the game's balance, as you mentioned. Many fights will force you to fight multiple characters back to back with no chance to heal, reflecting the speed of battle. Often times, your win condition will be modified. For example, you may be pit against an immortal foe: Your win condition is not to defeat them, but just to hold out for a set amount of time until your character finds a way out. You, as a player, will change your tactics to be more defensive because you *know* you can't win, and so does your character. Another battle introducing Talim applies ice physics, as she summons wind for your practice and it blows the fighters everywhere, making you much more careful about footing and emphasizing the massive force of magic at play... Until Talim's AI backpedals off a cliff anyways. The RPG level system is also used to show character's respective power levels. When Nightmare shows up, the guy is level 60- even if you'd been grinding and doing sidequests, at this point he'd still be double your level. So the player is made to feel how absurdly powerful the literal demon is as he literally hits twice as hard and easily resists attacks.

[@gungriffen]

Fatal Fury was Simple but Great. Man (Geese Howard) Kills main Character's (Terry Bogard) Father (Jeff) in front of him as a kid. Main Character (Terry) and his Brother (Andy) return 10 years later as adults to kill Geese in Vengeance. After killing him that mans Brother (Krauser) comes for his Vengeance. Terry kills that man too. Terry adopts the son of Geese who killed his father in an attempt to stop the cycle of vengeance. It's a Simple Vengeance "You killed my Master" trope but it works as a grounded plot about back alley brawls and not outlandish gods, nations, or global conquest etc. SNK did all that later on KOF :/

[@aquilesca5tr0]

you forgot that later geese howard kills akuma and kazuya

[@Kreozot2D]

In all 5 hours or so of -SIGN- story, Potemkin has 2 lines which he pronounces both in a row during his own 5 seconds of total screen time in a single scene. While sitting behind the thick armored glass wall, facing away from the camera.

[@rampant1apart]

6:35 I don't understand why dead/eliminated characters aren't brought back for later installments with just acknowledgement that they are non-canon. If you just drop the roster and say, "Yeah, this character isn't around in the story but we know their gameplay is popular and worth including" I can assure game creators that VAST majority of us won't care.

[@Ticketman99]

Just make "non canon" games for them to be included. KOF '98 and 2002 are just two of those non canon games which allows dead people to be part of the roster.

[@chara2038]

My favorite storytelling in a fighting game is how SNK handled Hibiki in Last Blade 2. The choices you take during the match affect the fate of the character.

[@project-x-khowlett]

Only exception to this is KoF, its overarching storyline is awesome with its little nuances from how the characters change throughout the timeline. (An example being Kyo’s transitions from saga to saga, namely Orochi Saga to NESTS Saga.)

[@versus22REALLY]

I'm happy I rewatched this. I forgot what you said about joke characters victories.

[@T2266]

A.B.I: Fighting games' stories suck. RTS games:

[@roykimura]

1:51 Oh damn, the zombie apocalypse got so bad that Superman has to kill infected Green Lantern. Right? That is The Last Of Us 2 that is on screen, correct?

[@roykimura]

Also, I call BS on the sense of loss. Everyone felt sadness when Hanzo died in MK11. His story from the original MK to the present was a trip. I felt when Cassie lost her mom and Johnny lost the love of his life.

[@ShiniGamiAD]

07:56 No it didnt suck, we got Devil Jin in next installment and he is basically T3 Jin with extra moves and of course devil gene.

[@RycoreXIII]

Personally I respect that arcsys said "fuck it" in guilty gear and just made a movie, no one is engaging in the story mode for the fighting anyway.

[@Cronosonic]

Them's Fightin' Herds (which I'm surprised you didn't talk about) has an amazing story mode, even if it's currently still only the first portion. It's not just contrived fights against other characters (though the premise does set up a reasonable justification for why the characters fight each other), but it's got a full on 2D RPG-esque world and dungeons with NPCs to talk to and a bunch of different interesting enemies to fight which teach you to vary your strategy against different foes - and in general the story mode is an extremely helpful tool for learning new mechanics and putting them into practice, which each player character you face down at the end of each chapter being a decent challenge but also having their own unique third phases that require you to put into practice techniques you've learned as you went along. Also, it's got four different modes and the beginner mode is very welcoming to newbies. Oh, and you can earn a whole bunch of cosmetic items, which I'm pretty sure you can use in multiplayer lobbies. And the writing is fantastic and hilarious.

[@LegatoSkyheart]

It really does sound like there's no real winning tool to make Fighting Game stories "better". All you can really do is just make the Characters better. It seems like you care more about the characters getting that "flair" when paired up with certain characters. Kilik with Xianghua where before the match they get extra dialogue that they won't say to other characters, Jin calling Ragna "BROTHER" when fighting Ragna during the intro and also during the fight and when ending the fight, Ryu and Ken sharing a simple fist bump with one another signifying their long friendship and respect for fighting each other since the very first Street Fighter game. Nice little flair moments that these games have that just make those characters POP out. But I don't think the narratives of Fighting Game Stories have to simply just end at that, and unfortunately I don't think there will be a simple "answer" to any of these "questions". Guilty Gear probably has it right, there are plenty of stories that go on in the Guilty Gear games that sometimes merge in with each other, but by and large a good majority of the cast really has no relevance to Sol Badguy's "story". They all have their own plot in this big world and serve some significance to the main plot, but they probably never actually "meet" each other, That's where Street Fighter V's story messes up at where they FORCE situations to where the entire main roster will eventually HAVE to meet each other rather then Other guy in the roster is just simply chasing another guy in the roster and accidentally created an event to allow the main character to progress the plot of the story. Let's just say there's a reason why Jin has reactions to Ragna, Noel, and Tsubaki, but has no reactions to Lichi, Arakune, or Taokaka. Jin really doesn't meet any of the later three, but deals with the former three quite regularly. To Jin Lichi, Arakune and Taokaka are just some random thugs on the street, there is no story there and there really isn't much to their story then a bump in the street. HOWEVER, Taokaka, Lichi, and Arakune DO have a story together and DO have some relevance to Ragna, Noel, and Tsubaki. So even if Jin never meets Lichi, Arakune, or Taokaka it doesn't necessarily mean they aren't relevant to his story he just never has a "need" to meet them. They just needed to react to the people they are involved with and Jin's story can continue. Jin has no reason to meet Taokaka, Lichi, or Arakune. He just needs to react to Ragna, Noel, and Tsubaki.

[@SeanHiruki]

So I just noticed you are during the Baccano ost. Damn good taste

[@Mushroom-Stew]

If you watch Slayers hitstun animations, they're actually him avoiding damage

[@lastburning]

I think you are over estimating how many people finish games in general. One third of the players finishing the story mode is not bad.

[@Bladebrent]

One story mode I actually did like was BlazBlue crosstag's. Alot of people didnt, but It feels like they kinda knew the story wasnt gonna be great regardless of what they did, so they kinda use it to just have the characters bounce against each other, and there were some genuinely funny moments I liked. Like Kanji and Ragna bumping into each other and both *REFUSING* to just take one step to the side to let the other pass, then just before a fight breaks out, Waldstein shows up out of nowhere and makes them feel awkward. There's also the one where Hyde and Ruby meet and Ruby asks where Hyde pulled the sword out of, and it makes Hyde wonder how in the hell he does that in the first place. Alot of fights just happen cause "The Moderator" basically reminds the contestants that they need to be fighting, and in the 2.0 Story mode, even this happens less often and sometimes just has less fights for the sake of goofy story stuff. You even get some characters interacting with each other that normally dont in VS mode, like Blake and Makoto. I feel this is a good way to do Story mode, and just finding a different way to tell the story without going into these complicated tournament ancient evil revival shenanigans is a good idea. Although no one was really happy with MvC:I's story mode, I feel it already had a good set-up for a story that could've just had characters bouncing off each other in a similar way. The Worlds are merging and there's alot of strife caused as a result. I even went into the Gallery mode, and theres stuff like "The Makai Kingdom" merging with the Dark Dimension has caused territorial disputes between demons. This was an easy set-up to have alot of fights between Capcom and Marvel characters. However, the story mode starts basically at the end of the story line where everyone is already together. Everyone is familiar with one another and theres only a couple fights internally between the heroes. More than half of the rest of the fights are against the same two or three jobber enemies which outside of just being boring, really makes the Marvel *VS* Capcom title kinda pointless storywise. They could've had X meeting Thor in Xgard right as the merger happened and they point at each other and go "Who the heck are you and what are you doing here?" Theres easy set-ups for fights but they tried the more "Cinematic" angle of them going after the stones individually, and it just wasnt as interesting.

[@gustavodecarvalho724]

There is a interesting case in the Guilty Gear series. Kliff Undersn canonically dies on the first Guilty Gear game, however he is a character in the XX series. Kliff's story mode, instead of ressurecting him, is just a retelling of past events which allowed him to be on the roster and also get players up to date with the story while making his death permanent. And then Xrd comes and ressurects Zato...

[@DrEarthwormRobotnik]

Thing is, Zato’s resurrection was actually a major plot point, as he was a test for the Conclave’s major plan. Not only that, but Zato isn’t really himself but an empty shell of his former self as well.

[@UltimateStarky]

1:51 I mean, I don't think you're right, but I haven't played enough of the Last of Us 2 to fully dispute it.

[@EeveeFromAlmia]

I tried to learn the lore/what the charaters are like of Mortal Kombat 11 though the story mode. Yes I know it's the 11th but wow that went worse than I thought.

[@BATCHARRO]

One of the things Marvel vs Capcom 1 did that never got brought back is acknowledge both characters in some arcade endings. When Venom wins he's talking to whoever the other guy was. Something like that should be easier in in game engine endings, where those can be found. Of course the Marvel series went straight back to slideshows and in the last game's case, a Conglaturation Screen. Like Jesus man, SF Alpha 3 had motivation expositing intros but I gues we can't have a movie mode AND text describing what your character's overall place in the narrative is.

[@Suika_Ibuki_The_Drunk_Oni]

One thing i disagree with you is the thing about Rachel, Slayer and Elizabeth. I absolutely despise characters who don't "lose" in a fighting game, and just decide to stop fighting instead. Rachel might be the absolute worst of them all, because she doesn't even get hit. Nothing takes the sense of victory away from you faster, especially if the match was a real nail-bitter, than having the enemy be like "oh i let you win." It makes me incredibly frustrated. I dont think however, that these characters have no place. However, i do think they need a way to be "beaten". Like for example, if you perfect them, they fall to the ground, completely beaten, despite their absurd power. Something like that would fix it, and hell, motivate the player to get better to beat them down even harder.

[@KuroNoTenno]

It fits with Rachel, because she's just plain insufferable. As for Elizabeth, she's not there for fighting itself anyway, it makes sense for her to stop fighting when she feels that she had enough.

[@Suika_Ibuki_The_Drunk_Oni]

@@KuroNoTenno ok but that doesn't make it feel any less bad.

[@Gaminglink1000]

3:20 Don't most people not even finish most games they buy in general? This could explain those numbers

[@Felipera_]

I remember the fight as Heihachi vs Devil Kazuya when you are "old man too angry to die". It was awesome fighting with low health with slow motion on every hit. It sucked when the following cutscene decided the actual results of the fight...

[@yareyare8235]

Dead or Alive 2 has one dialogue between every single fight. Short but enough to know what the characters' objectives are.

[@SirLightsOut99]

I think mortal Kombat deception did a story better than anybody gives it credit for. Instead of putting you in the shoes of any specific main character, the game gives you control a fairly boring protagonist Shujinko. He's so boring his name is the literal Japanese word for protagonist. However, because of his lack of personality they're allowed to do a lot of stuff with that character. Since the game takes place in the past for the most part, he can impact the storyline in a meaningful way while also giving the player the ability to explore the open world, including every realm in the mortal Kombat universe while learning brand new lore. Then when he inevitably has to appear on the roster in versus, they can just let you play as his older version who is much more learned in the ways of combat than the young version you play throughout most of the story. You see this character grow and age through the campaign, and when it's time to jump into verses you get to play as him the way he is now. I think that's really cool. You get to play as this character, boring though he may be, and see the backstory of a crucial event in the timeline that was already set in stone in the previous game, that being the resurrection of the dragon king.

[@NintenDude0188]

This.....deserves more views.

[@tetsatou2815]

On the topic of Dragonball, what makes me sad is that at the start of the Saiyan Saga, the power levels were meant to represent a functionally static ceiling of power, and that the rub is that while Earth trained martial artists might be weaker in absolutely terms of power, they make up for it in their ability to essentially fight smarter, harder, and better to make up for that power differential. It's why I like the super version of how Goku grasps Ultra Instinct. Roshi scolds him for relying on brute force, and forgetting the training he, Kami, and Korin gave him, then proceeds to clown on Jiren for like, 7 pages. He loses, eventually, but the fact that he was able to style on the biggest bad in the franchise for so long despite being so much weaker sells exactly that premise. Of course that also pissed off most of the fanbase because alot of them are mouthbreathers who like big number go brrrrr.

[@BootyjuiceJenkins]

Top tier fighting game players could care less about single player content. It's sad because older games of the genre used to come packed with it day one on the disc. I've come to respect Smash Bros. more due to the fact they don't neglect this part of the game and don't launch so bare bones.

[@Mal-go5dl]

Smash single player is still underwhelming imo

[@Theyungcity23]

@@Mal-go5dl Subspace Emissary was incredible but there wasn't really any story mode in the latest Smash

[@SuperFusionAJ93]

Giving the circumstances of Competitive scene this might be a wake up call.

[@BootyjuiceJenkins]

@@Mal-go5dl Even if you think that, it still puts most modern fighters to shame. Tekken 7 really made you pay for Tekken bowl...

[@Skallva]

@@Theyungcity23 There wasn't really a story in Subspace, either

[@Beavoru]

Why didnt you mention King of Fighters/Fatal Fury/Art of Fighting widely? those games actually as i remember, are the first ones to have an interesting story on fighting games, or is because those are just good 'plot' fighting games?

[@Ticketman99]

Because even *he* knows that SNK are the best at it...but he doesn't know a thing about them so there's that.

[@Beavoru]

@@Ticketman99 I see.

[@Blittsplitt5]

Because his videos are biased as shit, lol. I mean.. He even mentions his bias against NRS and Dragon Ball (although I do understand his hate for NRS animations, but then at the same time ignores good animation from Smash Bros.). And then jacks off ArcSys in basically every video.

[@mw3ragequit14]

What do you think about MK Deception's Story? Where you play as Shujinko and all the fights are basically him learning multiple fighting styles to take down Onaga with all the techniques he has learned. It also helpes that he gets a better understanding of the realms as he progresses throughtout the story.

[@radiantansel202]

I think my favorite story mode to this day in a fighting game... has to be in the Senko no Ronde games. The first Senkoro was lower budget because the company wanted to port it to the Dreamcast, but suddenly Microsoft actually PAID for having the game, this also helped because of the online play (There is still people playing it too!) Anyway, the story mode is basically just what you do in the Arcade mode, the thing is, every character already has an established route with characters, they will not randomize like they do in other fighting games, because they all tell a story and they ALL interconnect with each other, it's also incredibly narrative because fights happen while characters are talking to each other... Essentially an anime! Not only that, you NEED to do certain hidden actions (They all have a guide at this point) like letting your opponent enter in Final Boss Mode, YOU enter in FBM, or both enter in something called "Vanish" (A last hit opportunity), there is just stuff that NEEDS to happen in order to get the actual "good ending", otherwise, you get an ending that actually leads to another story. This actually got incredibly better in the sequel (Senkoro DUO and the reboot, Senkoro 2), where it is a Visual Novel similar to that in BlazBlue, but in Senkoro, there are different teams all doing different things with some similar or different purposes, and they literally tell you that meanwhile one of the teams is talking, the other might be attacking them soon as they speak when you enter said chapter. And just like that Jin episode, there are certain special circumstances, like Lili, a character that cannonically CANNOT enter to the robots anymore because she will enter into a maniac mode due to story things, but she needs to escape, so she enters into Fabian's Rounder, and YOU CAN'T ATTACK ***AT ALL***, but you have buffed shields thanks, until Fabian in the canon can get into the robot and stop this to happen. Or, where some characters will team up to each other and defeat the same final boss, but each one of them gets a different song, a different dialogue, and a different purpose to be there. Oh, there is also bad endings, and outside of a joke one, all of them are pretty... brutal in a way or another, characters die and you literally never see a single piece of blood, yet, it hurts sometimes to watch how he/she died and why. Or how the Pre-Final Boss "Karel" gets special interactions with certain characters, a different dialogue AND A DIFFERENT SONG FOR THE SECOND PHASE. Each character interact with each other when possible and when cannonically speaking, they know each other or some regard similar to that, is just the absolute BEST example of a fighting game attempting to have a lore both inside and outside of VS Modes, because, just like other games, certain match ups get special vs songs, special dialogue and other things to tell you those characters cannonically attempted something like that at some point, in a way or another. Pretty nice video, and if you ever get the chance to play AT THE VERY LEAST Senko 2's Story Mode... please do! I will ensure you, it will be a nice trip. Regards from quite probably Senko's highest fan outside of Japan... And from Mexico!

[@Zaazokan]

The Nier Automata music in the opening gut punched me

[@BellowDGaming]

And that's why they returned Devil Jin with the classic Mishima Style moveset of Jin on the next installment. Also I thinkg Capcom's Jojo's fighting game gave the best story in ALL aspect. Arcade mode is true to the storyline where you're fighting everyone canon wise and skip characters that character never fought Story mode in Jojo has mini games which is true to the manga and anime along with fighting games VS mode has all the intro and contained story narrative for each characters as well along with the dialogues. Another is One Punch Man fighting game Saitama is never defeated when he loses all his HP he goes to the super market

[@imnot9923]

damn... I want that fist pump back. Would really love stuff like this, does not have to be every character, far from it. But damn do I wish we had something.

[@MercuryA2000]

17:14 I'd actually been thinking that that would be a good idea this whole video. Like, if a character breaks a leg, half their movement speed and take away their kicking attacks. They feel crippled, weak, and you see exactly how bad it is for them. Maybe if they wanted, they could do other things. Make it so if a character is getting 2v1d, you actually get surrounded, and your character faces whoever is closer (or some other way of swapping IDK) Make it so, if the character is hesitating fighting an old friend, have it so the fight sometimes cuts to a time when they were on the same side, and every hit you do then hurts you instead (or some other punishment), so the player hesitates right there with the character. In a fight with an unstoppable force, make it so you have to stay alive until timer, so it feels like you got saved instead of winning and waiting for your friend to show up. Or that you have to keep crossing them up and running to the right, and the enemy just keeps appearing in your way, so both you and the character are literally running away.

[@Noperare]

One way to mix tutorial and story: Story mode has a central young protagonist that is new to fighting, at the begining this character doesn´t have much of personality other than "wanna git gud". Early fights player only have access to the most basic movements and attacks. As story progress, character learn new moves. The character personality is molded by player skill. If player keep getting his ass beaten and trying again, protagonist has that shonen "never give up" personality. If player is highly skilled and wins with a "Perfect", he will have a smug "ha, too easy" personality. This also changes how other character react to player. If you get your ass beaten 10 times in a row, the a "good guy" adversary will go easy on next round, an asshole will not only stay hard, he will taunt you for being such a loser and when you finally kick his ass, protagonist be like "No, YOU suck". If you won with a perfect, he will demand a rematch and fight harder this time.

[@bakegyamon3]

I personally think that Blazblue has one of the best tools for making each fight in some way canonically viable. Phenomena Interventions. This single tool allows for almost infinite possibilities in VS mode for matchups, as well as potentially adding more unique story interactions, which is something Calamity Trigger and Continuum Shift do with the multiple character perspectives, although some more than others, but it does give a unique framing device for each interaction... Until after BBCS

[@genuwine21]

This is very reminiscent of classic pro wrestling style story telling, the idea that the story is told in the match and not through the current backstage or silly vignettes but rather through the matches themselves. I am ok with story mode, but part of the issue is not everyone has the main characters of story mode as their main. If your main is under represented in the story mode that feels bad, and makes you less likely to play it. Arcade mode does an ok job of telling that character's story though it also is hard to say if it is cannon. The SC6 story mode with the different timeline stuff was a pretty good compromise giving you the option of playing your main and experiencing what that character was doing during the timeline of the main plot.

[@ricardoludwig4787]

I think the idea of dream matches is a good way to have a strong narrative for the characters and for the canon to have meaning without having to deal with shoehorning everyone in. Yeah, 3ven the way KOF did it wasn't ideal since it basically meant it had to alternate between plot installments where the cast is limited by the plot, and games more or less devoid of plot, but with every character you could want. Maybe having part of the game have a meaningful separation between the dream part and the actual plot interactions, with the interactions between plot characters having priority, while dream characters mostly do the self contained storytelling in the matches

[@raydaal3265]

one thing that DBFZ does really well is delivering the feeling of a fight with lasting effects, for example all the stage transitions and destructive finishes the characters have . This gives the feeling a fight that really happened as if it were a story mode fight

[@Enskyed]

Sounds like something that can be solved by simply having harder fights. Also, self contained ''stories'' or rather, fights, still have the duty to follow the continuity.

[@ikagura]

King of Fighter's story is fine for me

[@SuperFusionAJ93]

It has the best story in fighting games.

[@ikagura]

@@SuperFusionAJ93 It's good that they managed to make story arcs (consisting of 3 games) while retaining their entire roster in "Dream Match" games

[@calebjackson3895]

Even though it was a vehicular fighting game, Twisted Metal Black had my favorite fighting game stories. Each character had strong motivation, established via art-house short films, and each one had pretty good plot twist if they won.

[@silasrodriguez6406]

Great point about NRS games story mode. Really cool stories they tell, but almost like a chore to complete just to get to the next cool cutscene.

[@TamirElias]

I like how KOF dose it's story the best, it's like watching Sport's/WWE, you have a tournament every once in a while, you have your good old badass character's, some newbie's that try to make a name for themselve's, you have the douchbag one's, and just for kick's you have a silly final boss just for the hack of it . A whole lot of trash talk before and after match's,(Kyo's trashtalk is top tier). It's never about saving the world from doom(Orochi aside), the story never tries to delve too much into the character's backstory or place you as one like modern FG's are doing now. If anything i think copanie's nowday's have lost the sense of how a story should be or how to implement it.

[@richardo490]

Iori: "Wow! I normally don't blast crimson flames! *Wild!* "