Summer Goth GRWM and rambling about Beauty Standards

[@JoanaShino]

Putting paleness in a pedestal has affected me as a youngling, who thought the fairer I looked the more beautiful I'd be. I can only imagine what goth POC go through. My rambling videos are literally the thoughts going through my head at the moment, they might not be the most well put together. This is me thinking out loud, thinking about my actions and what can I change to do better or to be better.

[@nataliehernandez7517]

Joana Shino ok as a poc emo, i always struggled trying to find style inspo in ppl who looked like me :/

[@deadburied683]

i'm so glad you talked about this! i'm black and alternative,and i used to scrub lemon on my face to get paler, it got into my eye and obviously hurt like hell. but after years of feeling bad i finaly like my skin color

[@maryjxxne4221]

Show off your beautiful complexion don't let stereotypes tell you how to be yourself🖤🖤

[@CatFamilyHall]

I hate that the alternative community ever made you feel that way. I think darker skin with all of the black clothes makes the aesthetic even more beautiful. I bet you look amazing

[@deadburied683]

@@CatFamilyHall /|\( ;,; )/|\ thank you! /|\( ;,; )/|\

[@VictorianDeadrose]

Thank you for being so open and honest about your “goth thoughts” in your videos. We really need more positive attitudes like yours out there in the subculture. 🖤

[@VenusMacabre]

The glorification of paleness is such a huge problem in the subculture. My favorite thing is when white and pale non-white goths say they're just trying to look "dead" but then put on concealer and highlighter. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That's of course not a problem on itself (the concealer and highlighter + pale skin), but it's obvious when they're just saying that to not be honest about their colorism. I as a pale woc had some trouble with this stuff too, I can't imagine how painful it is for brown goths, the darker the more troublesome. I used to edit my pictures (around 10 years ago) to look GRAY. Literally gray, I'd desaturate my skin into grayscale and then lighten it up. I'm glad my only fear of the sun now is when it comes to wrinkles and that I have no issue now wearing darker foundation during summer. It looked ridiculous to wear the pastiest powder available.

[@JoanaShino]

Thank you! You explained it much better than I could, this was brought up in another comment. I enjoy the deadly look, which you can achieve with your eye makeup as well, exaggerate your dark circles, etc. But funny enough the 'dead look' is mostly applicable to making the skin look lighter 😅 everything else is just beauty makeup.

[@skeletongue.]

im a Latina and when I was younger I used to say stuff like “I’m so glad I’m pale, I think I look better this way” instead of realizing that any skin tone can be alternative. it’s embarrassing to think about my mindset as a younger person interested in goth allowing others to perpetuate whiteness and gothness in the same way. I’m much more comfortable with my (still light, but yellowy) skin. I freckle and turn darker much more than I used to allow myself to, as I realize there’s goths of all types.

[@JoanaShino]

The great thing is we never stop growing! I may feel embarrassed for my mentality when I was a teen, but as long as we're open to change I think that what's most important. Our standards are shaped by the information that surrounds us, and some people are not exposed to that much diversity. That's why representation also matters ❤️

The idea of pale skin being "better" is tied to social class, prior to the 1960s, when it meant that one didn't have to work outside in the sun. When and how it became associated with the Goth subculture comes from a few places: the influx of neo-Victorian fashions in the 1990s brought in an interest in Victorian beauty standards, there's the vampire and ghost associations that have, frankly, been a HUGE part of the subculture since the beginning (even Gloria Mundi, the band that most-influenced Bauhaus, had songs about it), and to a lesser extent, we have the influences of the anarcho-punk scene which is influenced by Socialism, and thus working class realities, and by 1979, having a tan was a sign of being able to afford leisure time, while not being tanned was a sign of being cooped up in an office or factory. I'm fairly photosensitive, myself, which is why I, personally, avoid too much sunlight. My eyes are especially sensitive to the light, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. ☹️

[@maryjxxne4221]

I love that you talked about this and you are out here breaking stereotypes.I wish more people saw this!Embrace and love yourself everyone no matter what your lifestyle is🖤🖤🖤

[@pochacco7]

People can deny it all they want, but all you need to do is check out these goth/alternative affiliated websites and you will only see one or two poc model and that's it.

[@Nosferotika]

yaz g This!!!!

[@Daniellexox]

I’m so glad you brought up the pale skin topic. I 100% agree with everything you said. Being mixed, and more alternative growing up I was always insecure about my skin tone. As I’ve grown up I’ve embraced my skin color more but it defiantly can be an issue for some people.

[@isisbathory]

Hey Joana, as usual this was a great video! And great conversation, tbh for me wanting to be pale is not any better or any worse than wanting to be tan "AF" and spending hours and hours under the sun just to get that "golden" colour that's not only going to fade away but also age you a bit faster. Although I do not condone skin bleaching either. Also with the foundation shades, it's not just about being paler or darker but also the undertones and the reality of it, is that for the fairest of skin tones (and it's not my skintone or yours as pale as they are), the struggles to find foundation is as real as for the darkest skintones, when Fenty beauty came into the makeup game they catered exactly to that, where you find different undertones for the different pale skintones, and even then, I still have some friends who were a little too pale for their foundation. I think this is a great topic and I don't mean to be negative or anything, just giving in my random thoughts and opinions. Stay well

[@doridarka]

I have olive skin and during the summer I end up getting a tan very quickly. While when I was young I did prefer having paler skin but now I am embracing it and I don't even wear a lot of make up still. Yet people still call me goth with the way I dress or comment on how different I wear compared to the typical person in my country. So just be you

[@NaelleDevannah]

This topic is super important! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it. I live in the Caribbean (Puerto Rico). As a kid, while growing up in the island I noticed so much culturally engrained racism. Luckly the goth scene was quite relaxed about this issue, as much as our ancestry melting pot. 🤔 I’ve always felt like Goth is for everyone regardless Of their race, gender identity, ect.

[@lineaalba4035]

Thank you for bring up these topics. New sub.

[@PastelFerret]

Couldn't agree more, and that's coming from someone light enough to have to use the lightest shade of most foundation brands! Unfortunately though, some brands don't go light enough or the foundation oxidizes darker and more orange.. Or just not the right undertones. I've seen goths of many skin tones and I think it's all beautiful! I may be pale naturally but it doesn't matter, because that's my natural.. Everyone else's natural coloration is just as beautiful.

[@tademmolyneux9566]

i love this video so much!!

[@macabremom7790]

Yes to everything you said about beauty standards and colorism. I don't have super pale skin and never will and it's taken me many years to just embrace that. On a less serious note, where is that headpiece from that you are wearing at the end! That is fantastic!

[@JoanaShino]

It was custom made by a friend of mine. Check her IG @angelique.by.cat she's pretty great

[@eldritchnonsense1419]

What a lovely cup, I must get one myself at once!!! And so appropriate as well, since so much tea was spilled. Personally, I protect myself from the sun by not having a life and not going outside, but I guess sunscreen is also a valid option. Good advices and a positive message as always (the glitter seems a bit dangerous though :P).

[@JoanaShino]

Eheh, thank you, I painted it myself 😂 I'm actually thinking about starting to sell them. Thank you for the support❤

[@ademcanvaner2567]

Thank you for bringing up this awkward issue that many worry about and treat it like the white elephant in the room example. If a person wants to have that skin tone because they are expressing themselves with it, and it makes them happy, then that's fine. But, when we have people that just want to have that aesthetic to fit in, and they don't even listen to the music, here is where we have a huge problem. And that is why many goths, including myself, oftentimes don't want to associate ourselves with the subculture because of these aesthetic stereotypes, but then I remember that that isn't the point of the subculture anyways. That's just idiots and poseurs bastardising it to make themselves happy. So, again, my advice is listen to the music, see how it makes you feel, and then go from there. I do wear makeup (not every day because I hate not being able to scratch or rub my eyes), but I never use the clown foundation. I use lipstick, eye makeup, and all of those things, but I always leave my natural skin tone alone. That's because it changes throughout the seasons. I'm not joking, I can show you five different pictures with five different skin tones. I know that's the light and flash impacting some of it, but my skin does darken and lighten throughout the year depending on the seasons. But, the point I am trying to make is: I am goth regardless how I look. Even if I go out with no makeup or black clothes, it doesn't mean that I stopped listening to goth. More people need to get this fact through their thick heads that when they keep obsessing over their image rather than their music library, they are defeating the point of being goth, and are mimicking the mainstream. Look at ReeRee Philips as an example, and many other "goth queens" here on KZbin. Are these sluts actually goth? My answer is: no. These are women that are obsessed with an illusion and an idea that someone told them is "goth", so they ran with it and are now capitalising on it. The bottom line is: you don't have to have pale skin to fit in. If you listen to the music, you belong. End of story.

[@sunriseeyes0]

Thank you for talking about this important topic! I am dark skinned and don’t weae makeup so fitting in with the goth community has always felt a little weird to me 🙏🏽

[@maryjxxne4221]

You are beautiful, be yourself!🖤

[@sunriseeyes0]

Mary Jxxne thank you!

[@gothicc1825]

Im a 17 year old goth girl and I’m Cuban naturally I’m a medium olive and my skin looks tanned so it’s often a subject that makes me cry I have done so much to my skin to be pale and now I realized it was through hating myself

[@aurakitty]

OMG!

[@1015SaturdayNight]

Cemetery Confessions does a podcast dealing with representation in the goth community. Check them out, you might really love their discussions.

[@JoanaShino]

I don't think I know them. I'll have a look! Thank you

[@Thelornasharp]

No I don’t think it’s weird what you say I feel the same when people “recognise” my face without any make up in the streets 🙈😂 and I’m pretty sure I react just as awkward 😅🦇🦄🖤

[@issalife3521]

Some of the darker skinned goths have the most beautiful looks, it doesn't matter the skin color, we are all who we are..lol.. I'm 47 and an "elder" lol.. I love everyone's differences and find it all wonderful

[@filipematias5127]

💜💜💜💜💜💜💋

[@znyznyzny]

looks better without false lashes tbh

[@anniewatkins6450]

I use paler foundations then my skin because it makes me feel beautiful :) I just like it and like the way it makes me feel

[@sevastra8249]

I'm always disappointed there's still a huge racism problem in the goth subculture. I've noticed a lot of European goths in particular flat out ignore the super problematic things they do because racism isn't "their problem". Problematic being thing like fetishizing whiteness, wearing dreads and "tribal" styles.

[@JoanaShino]

Yes, I also feel it's a bigger issue in Europe, but it might just be my european perspective. It's a very dismissed issue and people get very defensive or prefer not to talk about it at all. I feel in a weird position most of the times as I would like to open a conversation about the subject of cultural appropriation (and plain insensitivity), but I also feel it's not my place. It's also very hurtful to see a lot of these goths so vocal about feminism, human rights, animal rights and such while at the same time refusing to address their problematic ways.

[@sevastra8249]

@@JoanaShino A good option is to use your position of privilege to echo what people of color are saying and to direct people to goths of color who talk about racism when you can.

[@1015SaturdayNight]

sevastra Don't be fooled, it's an issue in the US as well

[@sevastra8249]

@@1015SaturdayNight oh, I'm well aware. I lived there most of my life. It feels more unavoidable in the US.

[@margauxr6137]

@@JoanaShino I totally understand why you feel uncomfortable/not legitimate to talk about cultural appropriation within the goth scene, but at the same time, I think it would be a good thing, especially because we do not see that much goth POC (thanks invisibility, yay). It's totally up to you, of course, but I think there are ways to talk about it without appropriating any words or point of view. It's not even only worshipping pale skin, but also things like dreads and dreadfalls, for instance. I have seen younger goth influencers knowing it is cultural appropriation and doing it anyway just to feel goth enough and to fit in. it just makes me very uncomfortable. Anyway, I'll support you 100% if you decide to do such a video. The way you tackle all these sensitive issues is very intelligent and healthy, so a huuuge thank you !

[@JF0x]

Yeah It's Black Friday has a "DIY (Skin Lightening)" video and it makes me uncomfortable.

[@znyznyzny]

yeah she's already pretty pale so I think it was more for goths with acne and redness but yikes when you type it out like that..

[@cutedarkarts]

She does say in the video though that only do it if you want to. She doesn't push it on anyone, and says she mostly does it for freckles in her case. I've actually used her diy lightening for discolored skin patches in odd spots that I don't like. I agree that pushing the skin lightening thing is super shitty, but to me it comes down to personal preference. We shouldn't pressure people to be as pale as possible, but also not shame them if they decide for themselves that they want to be paler.

[@JF0x]

Cute Dark Arts I get the rationale with discoloured patches but I don’t really agree with the neoliberal perspective that we should all just do what we want without critically investigating why we might want that and the role we play in contributing to its normalisation but whatevs

[@andromedaphenomena892]

while i do think these topics are important. the video was labeled as a grwm and for us who came here for the makeup i feel as if it was mislabeled

[@xavierxlp301]

yeah, everytime I go through fashion inspo and stuff, most of all I see are just really thin pale folks, and being those is okay, but when your a darker skinned poc, it doesnt feel too good. I get tired of scrolling so far and not finding someone who looks like me, and its just kind of frusterating.

[@atr0phaneura726]

I don't think the obsession should be with pale skin but more with looking sickly and dead? You can pull that undead look no matter your skin tone

[@maryjxxne4221]

Whatever expresses someone works with any skin type🖤

[@JoanaShino]

Yes, I also feel that and that's why I go back and forward with this subject because I also like the undead/sickly look even just with my eye makeup. But we can't deny that for a lot of cases it has evolved into something else and it does help perpetuating 'the whiter the better' perspective . Very recently there was an IG account being shared around promoting' Goth beauty' and they had a little side note saying 'no dark girls'. Of course the makeup is not the root of all evil, but I think it's not helping to break the stereotype/beauty standard 😔

[@angelajakob1257]

Since when has goth skin colour become political correct? As a Victorian inspired goth being pale was a beatystandard of the times. Paleness has been viewed as beautiful in many cultures, for example the white skin of geishas. Paleness was often related to socio economic status and has nothing to do with racism. As a goth I always go lighter but not totally white but mix one pump of white foundation with one pump of light foundation. For me personally a goth make up should be paler like a mainstream foundation otherwise it's not goth . But goth does not mean you have to wear make up if one does not want. But if one prefers to wear goth makeup one should stay true to the basics of goth make up which is usually white or paler skin, dark eyes and darker or red lips.

[@JoanaShino]

Lol what? Your comment just gets more ridiculous at every turn. There's not enough Foundation in the world to cover that small mind of yours.