I have been drying tomatoes for over a decade. Mostly sun drying (in purpose built solar dehydrators), but also with table top units. And here are a few things to consider from my experiences. For all types of dehydrators, they work by removing moisture from the surface. And interior moisture then moves toward the surface along a gradient. But because of this, depending on the tool used, yes you can get different results. - Oven and table top dehydrators do work quickly, as they provide a constant heat and air flow to remove the moisture from the dehydration area. But also, they can work a bit too fast, in that the fruit may seem to be dry, but the interior may still contain moisture. Simply "feeling" the product to see if it is really dry may not be sufficient unless you dry to chip crispness. Better to use a moisture meter to actually test interior moisture. - Solar dehydrating takes more time as the external temperatures and rate of moisture removal can vary (even well built units with good passive airflow). The darker discoloration you saw on some tomatoes was when things got to hot and the tomatoes oxidized from the heat. This happens to those that are typically thinner or contain less moisture than others. But solar dehydration also has cycles, so at night, their is time for the internal moisture to move to the surface, where it can be removed the next day. Adding salt helps to aid this moisture movement (and also deters fungal growth). Which is also why is not really necessary to add salt to oven or table top dehydrators as the action of the salt gradient will not act fast enough to really help as much as with solar dehydration nor is there fear of fungal growth as there is no real "cool" period. - Finally, to rehydrate, I pour boiling water over the dry tomatoes in a bowl, and let them soak till they get the consistency I want. That is, do not assume any batch needs a fixed time to rehydrate. One can even rehydrate in cold water, but that simply takes longer. Hope this helps.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 Жыл бұрын
Wow!! Thank you for all of the information. I'm so glad you commented. My daughter-in-law is also very interested in food preservation. I am going to pass all of this on to her as well. I truly appreciate you sharing your knowledge/experience with me. Now that I've started sun- drying tomatoes, it will be a permanent part of my tomato preservation methods.
@SaintCoemgen Жыл бұрын
@@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 So happy I could contribute in my small way. I might add, to pass on to your daughter perhaps, the most wonderful way to preserve dried tomatoes is in olive oil. Add in some spices, herbs, a few cloves a garlic. There are many recipes online. Let it sit on the self for at least 6 months (but it can actually last years). When opened they can be used directly, even just on a slice of bread, no rehydratino required. Be prepared to say... Wow!
@Miss.C.4 ай бұрын
Will the nylon hanging dryers work?
@judeenxuto63344 ай бұрын
Thank you for sharing your own experience and knowledge to the already pleasant video. Greetings from Spain where I am drying tomates. Very large tomates only cut in half but so far sooo good.
@lydiahubbell62783 ай бұрын
@@Miss.C. I have seen those collapsible things and i think tomatoes would be too heavy
@RommyFallas4 ай бұрын
What a cute couple 😊
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47644 ай бұрын
Thanks...☺
@ilana-uf1ie3 ай бұрын
I thought the same thing. They are so sweet!
@bbttresidder72245 ай бұрын
7/25/24 and I’m sitting in my kitchen prepping my tomatoes for the …. Dehydrator. Well darn. Going to have to ask my engineer husband to construct an outdoor drying rack for me and do it the old fashioned and best way next year. Thank you for the very helpful and informative video!! Happy gardening!
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47645 ай бұрын
Haha.... I'm already looking forward to doing more this year. The hardest part was keeping insects out of the drying rack. Happy Gardening to you too!
@dustinhoogsteen1882Ай бұрын
If you use the dehydrator or oven I wouldn't worry about the water/vinegar boil after, just brush the salt off the pack in olive oil or leave them to store dry. When you're ready to use them just reconstitute with a little hot water and a splash of you favorite wine vinegar (red or white doesn't matter) and mush it all into a thick paste/jam like consistency to use as a spread for crostini. Dollop a bit on with a drizzle of good EVOO, sprinkle of fleur de sell and dried thyme or marjoram, oregano or fresh basil...
@LesssIsMore5 ай бұрын
What a wonderful video from start to finish. You two make a great team. Thanks for sharing this with all of us.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47645 ай бұрын
Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it. We do work well together....especially after being married for 43 years.
@trinalee72195 ай бұрын
Thanks for drying three different ways and sharing the whole process. Great video!!
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47645 ай бұрын
Glad it was helpful. I was really curious to see which way I liked best.
@michaelcaruso30505 ай бұрын
Your experiment was very helpful, informative, information I’m very glad to now have. It must have been some work and I appreciate how carefully you kept the test equal for all variants. Thank you.💕
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47645 ай бұрын
I'm so glad it was helpful. I wanted to do the experiment because I was really curious to find out which way we liked the best. Have fun drying tomatoes.
@plushykittykat2 ай бұрын
Its just delightful watching this, lovely job!
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47642 ай бұрын
Thanks for the kind words.
@cristinapetruzzellis-ht3iy5 ай бұрын
I been drying tomatoes outside for many years and is the best way to do
@conishkee4 ай бұрын
8/13/24: WOW!! This was a wonderful tutorial, and I learned so much from it. I have some Compari tomatoes waiting in the wings for me to do something with them and THIS IS IT!! I live in California where the sun is always shining, especially these days with the hot summer we've been having. Nonetheless, I am excited to get it going, starting today, so thank you both for making the comparisons. I'm gonna go for it the good ol' old-fashioned way with El Sol... Yum! 😋
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47644 ай бұрын
I'm so glad you found it helpful. Have fun eating all of thos sun-dried tomatoes this year.
@ENiceproductionsАй бұрын
Really good scientific procedure
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764Ай бұрын
Thanks!
@StoneHavenWof54 ай бұрын
I have done the in the dehydrator but all inclusive with seasonings and bit of oil on them. They were shelf stable for a year and kept consistency and flavour .. lots of methods to try.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47644 ай бұрын
I think they can be great using many different methods and everyone has different tastes. I just love having sun-dried tomatoes available to use all year round. Thanks for watching!
@lindap90794 ай бұрын
Thanks for going to all this work for us. I planted enough tomatoes that I'm sure I'll be able to try more preservation methods than my GO-TO Oven Roasted Tomato Sauce. Here in Seattle, there isn't enough sun to do the authentic Sun-dried method. I'll have to rely on my dehydrator. I'm disappointed to hear your results but I'll do my own and see what I get.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47644 ай бұрын
I really wanted to see which we preferred. The oven one was pretty good too. I think no matter what method you use, it's great to have sun-dried tomatoes on hand.
@jeffbee60905 ай бұрын
I'm glad I watched to end! great video!
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47645 ай бұрын
Glad it was helpful.
@deannewbern68105 ай бұрын
Great video. The horned worms didn’t find our tomato patch this year so we have a bunch. Because of the detailed comments included in the video - as opposed to a silent hand video - the oven method will most likely be the way to go here in Charleston, SC. Of all the different cities I have lived in, Charleston is by far the most humid and insect ridden. Thank you.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47645 ай бұрын
Thanks! So far we've escaped the hornworms so far this season. (fingers crossed) The oven is a great way to go.. We'll be doing a lot more after we harvest tomatoes this summer.
@TRTGCbyjroed Жыл бұрын
What an interesting experiment. Thanks for sharing Brenda. I’m adding this one to my “Recipes to try soon” file. 👏🏾😁.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 Жыл бұрын
We've been using the sun-dried tomatoes in several recipes already and I know that I will need to do a lot more next year.
@bobbymalta733 ай бұрын
Thank You For Your Time & For Sharing.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47643 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching!
@ennn41585 ай бұрын
wow what a wondreful video
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47645 ай бұрын
So glad you found it helpful. Enjoy your sun-dried tomatoes.
@Michelle-oo6is Жыл бұрын
That was a very interesting experiment. Thank you for sharing that with us.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 Жыл бұрын
I enjoy experimenting in the kitchen and I'm looking forward to using all of the sun dried tomatoes. 🙂
@lorraineyohey7023 Жыл бұрын
I love sun dried tomatoes thank you for this experiment
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 Жыл бұрын
We both love them. It's great to have them already on hand when I need them.
@sharonwittmayer12214 ай бұрын
You are so sweet to each other 💕🙌🏻
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47644 ай бұрын
Thanks!! We've been married for 43 years and have not always been that way, but we've grown a lot in those years.
@heatherpfeil2939 Жыл бұрын
Super interesting! Now I know how I’ll try mine.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 Жыл бұрын
It tastes longer, but it will be how I'll be doing it in the future. Thanks for watching.
@vickymik21314 ай бұрын
Love your video…you guys do a great job! Thanks 😊
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47644 ай бұрын
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.
@mary-comfortogholo47336 ай бұрын
Watching this in 2023, love you guys! Thanks for the effort & detailed process.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47645 ай бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching!
@plantbasedprepper4 ай бұрын
When you can sun dried tomatoes in oil and spices...do you have to water bath them? How long is the shelf life? Also, will beefsteak tomatoes work? We have a lot of tomato varieties leftover and heard not to use bigger juicy tomatoes. That roma and san marzano are the best. We already started dehydrating but now we are going to put some outside because it's over 100 degrees here in SoCal.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47644 ай бұрын
Hello. I don't can the sun dried tomatoes, they are kept in the fridge in oil. The beefsteak probably won't work quite as well because they have so much more liquid than the sauce/paste tomatoes. You will definitely get good drying with over 100 degrees....wow. Best of luck and enjoy your sun dried tomatoes.
@russalinaakhanova97694 ай бұрын
Huge thanks from Kazakhstan 🇰🇿 you are amazing ❤
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47644 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching from the other side of the world.
@miamor282 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for the experiment. I will do the old fashion way from now on
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 Жыл бұрын
I did another big batch so I'll have plenty of sun-dried tomatoes to use in recipes. Now I can't wait to try some new recipes. 😁
@georginadominguez7113 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for teaching me, GOD bless you. 🙏💖😊
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 Жыл бұрын
I'm so glad it was helpful. Thanks for watching!
@christinecasaccia29942 ай бұрын
I can not wait to try my own experiment.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47642 ай бұрын
It was fun experimenting and als having so many sun-dried tomatoes to use in recipes.
@wandacookson39426 ай бұрын
Thank u so much for doing that experiment. i saw there were the three ways to make them and i wasn’t sure where to start. i have an old fashion dehydrator. i am so glad to see i can try to sun dry them or put in the ovens. You did such a cool experiment. Where did u buy your seeds for those gorgeous tomatoes?
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47646 ай бұрын
We are still enjoying the sun-dried tomatoes. I'll be doing more this summer. I buy most of my seeds from either Johnny's seeds or MI Gardener. I've been happy with both of their Amish Paste tomatoes.
@lisanowakow3688 Жыл бұрын
Do you have a freeze drier? That would be a good one as well. You could always use freeze dried tomato seeds and they will still germinate. In essence the dehydrator and the oven are the same process, which makes more sense with the results post boiling.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 Жыл бұрын
We do have a freeze dryer and made some tomato powder, but I had no idea you could freeze dry the seeds and they would still germinate. Amazing!
@TRTGCbyjroed Жыл бұрын
Hey Brenda and Don🖐🏾😁I’m here for the Sundried tomatoes. Brenda I have that same dehydrator and I absolutely love it. Sophie (my Beagle) loves when I dehydrate Apples and Beef Jerky.😁🐶ok let me get back to your video.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 Жыл бұрын
Hello, glad you are here. We are talking about Beef Jerky, but haven't tried any yet.
@izzy91322 ай бұрын
Im just learning the different sun dries tomato method. As I recall Roma's and other Italian varietal tomatoes are far more acidic than all our American varieties so I assume they will retain more flavor once dried.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47642 ай бұрын
I'm not sure about that, but it would make sense.
@consciousimmortal4 ай бұрын
thank you! ♥️
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47644 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching.
@sunitatomescu65982 ай бұрын
I always sun dry mine under the sun and then boil them for 5 min with apple cider viniger.. let them dry again covering with towels for several hrs then you can jar. It’s the best
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47642 ай бұрын
I'm curious...what does the vinegar do? I hadn't seen anyone else doing that and I'm trying to learn which ways are best.
@nadif84372 ай бұрын
In my kitchen now, washing and freezing and dehydrating in my Ninja. Too late for sun drying experiments for me. I do have a rack that I dried my garlic on. I can retrofit it with trays for tomatoes next year. Thanks for the tips. Do they have to be boiled after drying? Now I'm concerned the texture of mine won't be good.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47642 ай бұрын
No, they don't have to be boiled. I did it because I wanted them to be a little less chewy, and it also washes some of the salt off. Either way is fine.
@sewingqueenusa5 ай бұрын
Great Video! Thank you so much!
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47645 ай бұрын
Thanks for the encouragement.
@janetgrooms Жыл бұрын
Great video ❤
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching!
@VictoriaMartinez-n8o6 ай бұрын
Love your video thank you
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47646 ай бұрын
Thanks!!
@bryansloesshillshomestead4523 Жыл бұрын
That's just crazy the difference in taste before putting in water and vinegar and after. Sundried wins🎉
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 Жыл бұрын
I know.... we were surprised by how different it was. I'm looking forward to using all of those sun dried tomatoes... yum!!!
@joedirt196526 күн бұрын
Maybe try drying them in a dehydrator over 4 days (lower temp I assume if you have an adjustment) to see if they match the sun dried.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm476426 күн бұрын
That might work. Thanks!
@emmyroest-borger8398 Жыл бұрын
Geweldig experiment! Ik heb pas een dehydrator gekocht, mooi voor o.a kruiden en pepers. Maar de tomaten ga ik in de zon drogen. Dit zal ook voor de paprika gelden.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 Жыл бұрын
Bedankt. Ja, ik moet meer van mijn eigen kruiden uitdrogen of invriezen. Dat staat op mijn lijstje voor volgend jaar. Bedankt voor het kijken!
@ghazouaz7957Ай бұрын
Do you sterilize the jars before putting the tomatoes ? And why do we have to boil them after drying l’m confused ???😮
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764Ай бұрын
I don't sterilize the jars because they will be stored in the fridge. I boil them for two reasons...one, to get some of the salt off and also just so they aren't quite as dry and chewy. They have the delicious dried flavor, but are more tender.
@lavondadye8091 Жыл бұрын
So do you have to reconstitute them before putting them in oil? I wonder if the oil would do the reconstitution?
@miamor282 Жыл бұрын
I have tried that before and failed. Oil doesn't reconstitute the tomatoes like how water would.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 Жыл бұрын
I see someone already posted an answer. I'm glad, because I've never tried it. Now I know not to even do an experimental batch with just oil. Thanks for watching.
@annepaul26093 ай бұрын
How long can you keep them in the oil
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47643 ай бұрын
Mine kept fine for 7 months. I read varying times as far as how long is safe...anywhere from 6 weeks to 1 year. I keep mine in the fridge and they are totally covered with the oil.
@brucetidwell77154 ай бұрын
That was interesting. This is just a guess, but is it possible your dehydrator was set too hot? I do them in an old fashioned plastic Ronco Food Dehydrator with the electric element in the bottom. I think it takes 2.5 -3 days. I just have to watch them to get them out before they go rock hard. They turn out dark red and taste exactly like the kind that I've bought at the store. The one time that I tried to dry them in the sun, they molded. I'm in Atlanta and think the humidity must be too high here.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47644 ай бұрын
It's possible. Maybe I'll try some this year at a lower temp. As for the mold, yes, the humidity would be a factor. I did ours at a time when our humidity wasn't very high.
@shrory4 ай бұрын
Do we remove the seeds?
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47644 ай бұрын
No, I simply sliced them and put them on the various racks.
@jodycadwell78665 ай бұрын
Which brand are those table top burners please?
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47645 ай бұрын
Here's a link to the ones I have. I'm extremely happy with them. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G9YKPQC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
@MarcusPereiraRJ2 ай бұрын
Why not just put them on olive oil and basil? I don't get the rehydration.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47642 ай бұрын
I don't completely rehydrate them. It's just enough so that they aren't totally dry and chewy. It also helps to wash off some of the salt. I don't think you have to do that, but I did this time.
@izzy91322 ай бұрын
I guess Pensylvianna Dutch (German) the first thing Germans think is pickling.
@gailday7566 Жыл бұрын
I’ve seen it done where you cut them in half, scoop the seeds and juice out with your finger then dry them. Wonder how that would work
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 Жыл бұрын
I saw that too but i wanted to keep the seeds and pulp. It would definitely dry a little faster without then. I also think Romas would be much better to use than Amish Paste. Amish Paste are great for sauce, but I'm definitely gonna plant Romas next year for sun-dryng.
@gailday7566 Жыл бұрын
Always fun to try it many ways. Looking forward to your results as you go along. Last year I cut cherries in half, put olive oil, salt and herbs on, then put in the oven for 30ish minutes then packed in oil. They were delicious in many dishes as well as the sun dried.
@lydiahubbell62783 ай бұрын
I am going to do San Marzano
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47643 ай бұрын
They would be great!
@lydiahubbell62783 ай бұрын
@@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 I am also growing a Turkish paste tomato variety I got from two seeds in a pod. It has more of a core than I would like, but for paste, i guess it doesn't matte. My San Marzanos are awesome. They are doing amazing for me this year, for some reason.
@angelmiller3224 Жыл бұрын
Do you buy you're salt thru Azure alot of homesteaders swear by it
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 Жыл бұрын
I haven't bought salt from them yet, but I'll look into it.
@angelmiller3224 Жыл бұрын
And powder in the vitamix that way you would have it to add to anything that you want tomato in it
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 Жыл бұрын
We are planning to do some tomatoes and then powder it. We dehydrated the skins and powdered them one year and I used them in a lot of various ways.
@gunslingorgunslingorsadf81505 ай бұрын
Makes sense. Sun dried is dried most because it wasn't heated and was dried longer. Dehydrator should be equivalent, but you would probably have to match the outside... like 96 degrees for 4 days. Just a guess.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47645 ай бұрын
I could have matched that this year....we've been in the 90's for most of the last 2 weeks....too hot. I'll definitely be making more sun-dried tomatoes this year.
@gunslingorgunslingorsadf81505 ай бұрын
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 I was planning to... but now seems like it's gonna rain the next week so forced to use the dehydrator. Think I used too much salt the first batch... too tomatoes... 32 roma plants in my backyard and 23 indeterminate, lol, lunatic I am.
@dawncampbell9385 Жыл бұрын
You are rock stars!! You can sell those in your farm stand for 💸💸
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 Жыл бұрын
I'm just thrilled to have sun dried tomatoes to use in lots of yummy recipes.
@kdexpressoo60234 ай бұрын
Thanks, was wondering. I was hoping the dehydrator would be the best. The other video I seen, they rinse with dried tomatoes in cold water to rinse the salt off. Then gets hydrated by sitting in oil for awhile. Which is another thing because I also read also your not suppose to infuse oils, for safety. IDK They say that and do that with olives too, in oil so?? :/ I would think that they speed up the sun dring process by chemical which could be the salt and possibly added electric, within two days for mass productions...maybe wrong idk...Maybe oven first to dehydrator whoohoo!!! jk
@kdexpressoo60234 ай бұрын
So I watched a couple more vids anyways. A few years back but, mass production was a sulphur steam bath overnight for a natural preservative. Their drying times were 3-9 days lol I would think in some kinda hot box timed for 2 days. But supposedly theirs are good in oil indefinetly because of the preservative and home a few months supposedly so..careful.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47644 ай бұрын
I've not researched any kind of perservatives. Ours don't last very long so I feel safe keeping them in the fridge in the oil. Thanks for the info.
@carmendoyle97863 ай бұрын
Four to five days is normal ❤🇲🇹
@rosangelapiquet69202 ай бұрын
Nice video! I hope you are not twroing away the top of all that tomatoes😢
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47642 ай бұрын
Our chickens get the tops....and are THRILLED.
@ssubramanian6055 ай бұрын
I was always thinking why no one used oven to make sun dried tomatoes, atleast I never came across any videos so far. I am happy that you tried all 3 methods. 😊thanks for the experiment!
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47645 ай бұрын
It was a fun experiment and we wound up with a lot of sun-dried tomatoes. The tomatoes are just starting to ripen for this season so I'm looking forward to making more for next year.
@cynthiashaw455 ай бұрын
Only the sun dried needed the 2 minute boil. The others just needed a good rinse to remove the salt.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47645 ай бұрын
I didn't know that. Thanks for the information!
@angelmiller3224 Жыл бұрын
You ought to use you're freeze dryer
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 Жыл бұрын
We've been using it more and more. We make a lot of freeze dried fruit for the grandkids as well as vege powders. We're still learning all of the things we can do with it.
@sergegassity73953 ай бұрын
Sun drying also has a fermentation component to it which results into a more complex flavour
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47643 ай бұрын
That makes sense...it is a very unique and complex flavour. Thanks for watching.
@GreenWitch15 ай бұрын
Most of the videos Ive seen show them just washing the salt off, not boiling them.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47645 ай бұрын
I hadn't seen that, but maybe in the future I'll experiment with just washing.
Why do you cut so much of the tops off? Its a lot of waste
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47644 ай бұрын
I do it for several reasons. First, it saves me a lot of time and nothing goes to waste---my 45 chickens love tomatoes. They eat every single bite and turn them into eggs. 😁
@lulumass77385 ай бұрын
Lord I need a supportive husband 🙏
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47645 ай бұрын
He is truly a gem. I'm very thankful for him.
@crystalallen40313 ай бұрын
😂
@sonachuria86983 ай бұрын
Same here, hard to find these days.🤣🤣🤣.
@yaad2226Ай бұрын
u wasted half the tomato while cutting feel so sad tupang i eat tomato like fruit i put salt and little red or black pepper tupang
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764Ай бұрын
When I'm prepping tomatoes I usually have so many to do that it saves time just to top them. None of it goes to waste because our chickens LOVE them. Those tomatoes then turn into eggs.
@PanteA..4 ай бұрын
You cut and tossed one third of each tomato. What a waste.
@waardenburgfamilyfarm47644 ай бұрын
I do it because it saves a lot of time and many of the tops were cracked. It doesn't go to waste...it turns into eggs after I feed them to the chickens.
@PanteA..4 ай бұрын
@@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764 OK . Thank you for not wasting them.
@yaad2226Ай бұрын
yes the oven tomato was not salted if i am right that is why they taste best tupang after boiling the tomato of oven taste better cause salt got washed and starch got the sweet taste tuapng
@waardenburgfamilyfarm4764Ай бұрын
That's possible. I just know I liked them all, but there were definitely favorites. Thanks for the idea.