Suomi vs Condor & Eagelos (WDC2)

[@peterl9022]

Villese did an amazing trick in his 1v1. He didn't have redemption completed but he sent his monks in to convert the skirms, and Running thought he was going for the bbc and backed off. Nice little play by Villese

[@PhoenixOnPhire]

"Finnish the gate bro" "Finnish the gate." I see what you did there T90! Dad jokes starting pre-children ....

[@Isvoor]

Saukko = Otter Mullisaukko = Young Male Otter

[@willek1335]

That thin map, with sea on either side is so good.

[@Milktube]

You couldn't remember the 3 letter name "Pag" ?

[@willek1335]

@@Milktube Wait, was the name again?

[@send_love]

33:00 market in dark age fast feudal and snipe king early play possible?

[@b.b.9589]

look at how bad Burgundian eco bonus is in that 1v1. it took until mid-late castle age for red to overtake blue's res collected, WHILE signifigantly outcompeting on workshops, relics, and center and having half the idle tc time. running just completely outplayed villese

[@NTab1]

Are you kidding? Burgundian eco is one of the best in the game, early eco upgrades that are discounted and farms that produce gold combined is incredible. Bohemians just have a very fast collection rate on gold and stone because they get the mining upgrades for free.

[@b.b.9589]

@@NTab1 go look at the aoestats win rate and see that this civ is now bottom 5 at 1200+ elo. they're not even top 10 on arena anymore. i have over 1k games played with them and it's just clear to me they've been over nerfed in the last year and their eco bonus doesn't actually feel that strong or convert well until you hit imp. ppl are stuck thinking they still get half off food cost on eco upgrades. the point is that in this game, with pro players, burg is getting matched by a non booming civ while doing literally everything right with bonuses and getting helped by free res

[@vicioussatsuma4491]

He went up 3 vils earlier to feudal, and the only use he made of the Burgundian bonus was to get double bit in dark age (which Villese got as soon as he hit feudal). If you don't use the bonus, of course it doesn't help you. And Villese of course got his own eco bonuses, eg the mining techs. Obviously he's going to be behind in res collected,. Instead, Running gave up the eco lead Burgundians can give you to instead make use of their powerful elite unit. It's about the choices you make, not just the civ.

[@b.b.9589]

@@vicioussatsuma4491 yeah that's kind of what I'm getting at, that DA double bit axe for 34 food saved to be celts for a bit is just a bad bonus. the cost is not worth the return, for the farm upgrades either. They tuned it to be cheap when the civ was horrible at release, then they tuned everything about the civ down because of flemish so now its underwhelming and ppl just skip the "main" bonus. Running is choosing to opt out of supposedly one of the best ecos in the game to essentially grab 2 relics ~= 3 extra farm vills earlier and middle. By then he's at generic eco upgrades, with all of the workshops and 5 vills from relics basically. Meanwhile a civ that doesn't make a weird cost choice just gets techs for free and is obviously much better on res until all of the additional factors compound from Running beating Villese at every point to give running a boost to imp. The win rates show how bad they are until imp, and burgundians have a worse winrate/time curve than even chinese at high elo, the peak "weather the early storm for eco and power later" civ. This is just showing a bit in a pro game what I think is the problem of the civ. They need a rework or something