Who is this hobby for anymore? (WH40K)

*Target Market*
I unbox some Games Workshop products and ask the question: Who is this hobby supposed to be for anymore?
Is it still for kids and young teenagers or middle aged men? Perhaps it is still for all of those groups but price hikes and the overall cost of the hobby has recently got me wondering.
If you think you know please share in the comments below and please give reasons to your answer.
COMMENT HERE: / 588377231193721
OR HERE: / sup3rsaiy3n
Disclaimer: The views in this video are mine alone and do not reflect a third party or Games Workshop as a company.

[@Sup3rSaiy3n]

Save £££ on Warhammer 40K here: - Element Games Affiliate link: elementgames.co.uk/warhammer?d=10224 - Promotional code: WIL5937

[@Haroith]

Save money by 3d-printing!

[@2k5R1Pilot]

Having a regular cocaine habit would be a cheaper hobby than Warhammer nowadays.

[@TheTurbanatore]

+Isaac Winders HAHAHAH

[@mrfire3269]

Isaac Winders you probz get more grams of coke than grams of plastic

[@lost4words91]

Its really not tho

[@lost4words91]

:(

[@Ojthemighty]

Do drugs not warhammer

[@ballerlarva4214]

There really is no denying it, it's pretty much impossible to collect GW products without feeling like you're being fucked. It's an extremely toxic kind of relationship for a business to have with it's customers. I shouldn't be feeling bad about every purchase I make, like I'm being ripped off and taken for a mug, but that's what you feel paying such exorbitant sums of money for plastic figures. I stopped playing a couple of years back, you shouldn't feel like you're being bent over and fucked in the ass every transaction.

[@g3xe49]

Well said. Like you hope no one's taking a secret picture of you buying it!

[@ethandaknight]

G3 XE its sad you have to search for the cheapest shit on ebay, which is probably dodgey and comes from some shed in the russian wilderness just to get a decent price and then your shipping costs fuck you over... GW are making serious cash nevertheleess.

[@rotmgpumcake]

Try start collecting sets, those are the best

[@LoftySkinner]

Same, when I realized each of my 5 armies could pay for a good guitar (or 3 guitars in the case of my Tau army) I just gave up on buying anything else for 40K anymore. They need a shakeup, lose the money haemmoraghing brick & mortar stores that only 2% of players can benefit from but EVERYONE has to pay for, at the very least. And the rules should be free to download like virtually every other wargame.

[@Mikey__R]

Lofty Skinner Have you tried buying more expensive guitars?

[@BlueLabelDrinker]

I could never afford to buy into this hobby even as a kid some 20 years ago, but now I do (though I don't think my wife has any idea quite how much I've spent). Then again, I'm always shocked at how much kids are able to spend these days, or what parents will buy them. Man, that makes me sound old...

[@theemporerofmankind938]

I'm young I afforded it by working in my dads automotive shop but if you look at my store I'm the only kid their

[@reedscott3]

Well, the new CEO of GW seems to slowly be pushing things in the right direction. It may take some time, but I think we may one day see somewhat affordable GW in the future.

[@Sup3rSaiy3n]

I really hope so Mike.I love the hobby and would like more people to be part of it and enjoy it too.

[@adamofblastworks1517]

+Sup3rSaiy3n I just bought the 7th edition rule book set for $25 at my local Half-Price Books, using a -50% coupon. I got REALLY lucky. And I'm thinking about returning it because everything else is so expensive, and I doubt I have time to play much. I'd love to see if I'm any good though. Also some of the battle videos make me think the battle system might be too unrealistic for my tastes. I can't remember what it was that bothered me so much any more. Edit: I think maybe it was how fast units die and how "fast" the game plays, so even though the game might take an hour or 2 to play, the battle would have taken a few minutes at MOST. And that takes me out of any immersion in the universe. How can they go through so many troops so QUICKLY, and still keep their numbers up?!

[@adamofblastworks1517]

+Sup3rSaiy3n I also got the Firestorm Planetfall Commander Pack for $8. That has everything I'll ever need to pay for to play the game. Spartan Games has the rest of the stuff you NEED available for free download on their website. I say you don't need the miniatures, though it would be REALLY nice. You CAN use cardboard base-plate cutouts.

[@MalinOfSweden]

A cheep trick for many COs that know they are leaving is to do whatever they can to get as high bonus as possible, if it hurts the company they don't give a shit about. It happens every day all over the world.

[@BSFilms1997]

I'm trying to get into the hobby, and I'm not sure when to start it because I'm building a computer soon. How much money will it cost just to get started?

[@2long2cat]

Firstly. don't buy from GW or GW resellers. Find yourself a hobbystore that makes its own prices and can give you a reasonable discount if you buy alot from them. Always question yourself: "Can't I get this cheaper anywhere, must I buy it here?". And if you can wait patiently, ebay is the way to go.

[@rubixthebrute9485]

thats what i say i buy some from wayland games cuz i wanted to buy centurions theyre 62 euros i cant afford three miniatures for such a price im not that rich that and on wayland games its like 49 euros

[@auslov]

RubixTheBrute you guys are damn lucky we can't get shit from them over here in the states.... I recently started this hobby because a friend did a report on it in school a few years back. I wasn't expecting this.... 12 Firewarriors equal $36.25? seriously? The only jobs around here are fast food jobs, and for part-time it's around 20 hours a week at $7.25 an hour! over time, yes it will stack up, but not all people want to spend all their money on this- They need to save up to go to college, pay bills, taxes,etc.!

[@calvinandhobbes730]

auslov so pace yourself. find a local game store, they are usually 10% off or so. on top of that, bills first, as you dont need to buy more models every paycheck.

[@auslov]

There is a local game store around here but sadly they sell everything around the MSRP. Lately the only things I've bought were paints, and a few models off of friendly EBAY. Bills always come first.

[@calvinandhobbes730]

yup, I feel you man :D

[@amandafranks5108]

"that's not a knife, this is a knife"

[@Mikey__R]

Thomas Bows I see you've played Knifey Spooney before.

[@Rusu421]

"that's not a knife. That's a spoon!"

[@Gothead420]

GW made me learn how to use silicone and resin properly...;-) DIY=Cheaper...

[@richardkocksworthy8423]

Hate that rubber feel tho

[@sethharley5557]

I watch this video in my third year of high school when it first came out, and my father bought the models for my brother and I. And I didn't understand this video. Now that I buy my own miniatures and build my own army's its become clear. Some of these models are crazy how expensive they are. But for me, I still buy them for the memories of my childhood.

[@Sup3rSaiy3n]

Great comment. You can't put a price on Nostalgia - just ask Nintendo.

[@LoftySkinner]

Nintendo just did - $60 for a little miniature NES with a 2 dollar ARM circuit board inside, loaded with games worth about tree fiddy.

[@otaris2099]

Heres a little anecdote for you. In 1998 When I was about 10 or 11 years old I was introduced to Warhammer 40k by a friend of mine whose father was very into traditional model collecting (ww2 planes/tanks, model rockets ect.) I played it for several years after that with my close friends and people at the nearby Games Workshop store and a local comic book store that had a few tables in the back. I even went to Games Day (official GW convention) in Baltimore, MA one time. When I got to high school, everyone there played Magic The Gathering. That game was much better suited to high school than warhammer, all you needed was a flat surface and some cards. You could play it in between classes, at lunch or even on the bus. So I became a magic player for a while. When I got to college, nobody played Magic or Warhammer so I started playing World of Warcraft. After the first 1 1/2, 2 years of college, I simply didn't have time to play that anymore since it required me to sit there for 4-5 hours every night raiding or doing arena. I graduated right after the whole 2008 financial crisis shitstorm. I had no job and no money living at my parent's house doing basically nothing. I dug out some of my old paints and models and started painting just for fun and because I was bored. However, in my area took the financial crisis pretty hard and the local comic book shop AND games workshop store had closed up. So I gave up on Warhammer again for a few more years, I got a job finally and started playing MOBA games on my computer. Recently, I heard that GW was updating the Dark Eldar Codex (my old army) and a new gaming shop had opened not too far from me. I went down there to check it out and had a great time. Everyone was so friendly. The young guys brought me up to speed on the new rules and armies while the older guys enjoyed reminiscing about the old days when I played. I purchased the box set that comes with 10 kabalite warriors and 1 raider and some paints and brushes. After a few weeks of painting when I have free time, I have the contents of that box fully painted and based. I recently purchased some scourges that I look forward to painting soon. To answer your question, who is this hobby for? I am in my late 20s, my girlfriend and I both have nice jobs and our own place and we are both painting and enjoying it. However, I don't do it like you do where you buy 2 boxes and 2 characters at one time. I just buy one box and wait until I paint the whole thing until I buy new stuff. It helps keep the cost down a little bit. I am encountering some problems though. I need to get some grotesques but they are finecast and sold out on the GW website right now. My local shop doesn't have any. I will need to venture into the risky territory of ebay or amazon to get them or drive a far distance to go to a store that might have them available. Anyway, hope you enjoyed my story and good luck with your hobby and channel.

[@JadeDude1973]

Finecast stuff is starting to vanish. I can no longer get a Big Mek with KFF... and COINCIDENTALLY, GW just came out with some really expensive kits -- Meganobz, and the Orkanaut -- which BOTH include a KFF bit. So now, instead of going through the complicated process of buying a single model for $22.00, I can buy a $63-100.00 kit and haphazardly glue the KFF to a Nob!!!! >

[@Sup3rSaiy3n]

Jade Prout Yes unfortunately a pricey solution for such a useful model.

[@frogulon8271]

Nice comment, very well said... but please put in paragraphs.

[@anon5252]

I was quite intrigued when I saw the title of this video. I started a Warhammer army years and years ago when I was coming towards the end of my GCSEs. At the time I was relatively immature, impatient and I did not have the impetus to properly build an army. Fast forward 10 years. Some of my mates have small Warhammer armies. I have been considering starting one myself. However, whenever I go into Games Workshop I get the same feelings you have. I look at the prices of the models and I just think, 'are these people serious?'. Do casts cost a lot? Probably, but they can't cost that much. I don't know where GW sources its figurines from but I would be surprised if they're not just mass produced in one of the usual Asian countries. £18 for a single, plastic figurine on a sprue. £18. £20 for 5 plastic figurines on a sprue. £35 for a few panels that make up a tank on a sprue. It is sheer madness. It is also why I have not yet started a new collection. My mates don't have large armies; they are quite modest. That said, I worked out that to buy a Necrons starter box, the paints I would need to do a good job, etc... would probably cost me in the region of £150. The recommended paints needed to properly pain even basic figurines are normally 10-15 at least. I have seen people on KZbin with armies that have literally cost them 3 - 4 thousand pounds. Then a new edition of the rules comes out and renders it useless (presumably another GW move motivated by money...). Who is the hobby for? I don't know. I find GW's pricing structure ludicrous, though, that is for sure.

[@Sup3rSaiy3n]

Vengeful Swan Excellent contribution to the debate. Thank you for sharing. Now about those guys with large collections haha!: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mamxamycqs2Fq5I

[@anon5252]

1532chris It isn't a matter of affordability. The very fact you have gone there just demonstrates that you are a bit of a 'fanboy'. Games Workshop prices are ridiculous for what you get; that is a fact. Casts do not cost that much to make, and GW's global restrictive import/export model just evidences how much their business model depends upon stifling globalization in order to control regional pricing.

[@AdeptusForge]

+1532chris Look, with the quality games workshop has, they are not exactly exceptional when it comes to their miniatures. Most miniatures now-a-days are slightly below or above GM's quality level, but cost boatloads less money. Unless GM miniatures are made of PEWTER, then they aren't worth what they are charging.

[@Akalos1]

Old comment, but what range is superior to GW? I'm a warmahordes and infinity guy and you're out of your mind if you think they're even remotely in the same league as GW quality, especially in plastics land.

[@HistoricalConflict]

I don't ever buy my GW books.....if you get my drift

[@ps5622]

+Gamer Hudson Quite right, the only rulebook I think should be bought would be the one in the starter box. Actually, the big boxes sold by gee dubs are roughly the only thing I buy these days since they are often cheaper than the sum of the individual components. Still expensive though...

[@redberry33]

A pirate's life for me!

[@Avidjupiter]

I am guessing you don't generally go to gaming stores. Generally frowned upon.

[@HistoricalConflict]

if its a pdf and on a tablet they cant tell.

[@TheSeekingOne]

It's an interesting question you raised here. And the situation with hobbies and toys where I live is kind of interesting as well, now that I think of it... Firstly, where I live the GW hobby has always been far too expensive for kids and teenagers. My own first contact with the hobby happened when I stumbled by pure accident upon a small independent retailer who sold GW models. And I still remember with 100% clarity how when I entered the store, I had my jaw literally drop twice: first it was at the total awesomness of the figures, books and artwork, and second it was at the prices, which were downright insanely high for a university student without a proper job (that's what I was back then). So I had to forget about Warhammer for the next 3 or 4 years - and returning to that store was one of the first things that I did to celebrate my first full-sized monthly salary after passing 3-month probation period on my first good full-time job after graduation. And - guess what - this was over 15 years ago! I still have a few unopened blisters laying around that I bought over 10 years ago, and price tags on those blisters make me want to laugh and cry at the same time :) Basically, 40k here has always been mostly an expensive pastime for young to middle-aged men. I'd say that for the bigger part of the last 15 years about 80% of the local player base were dudes of 23 to 35 years old with decent jobs and no families (or at least no kids). This is why, despite the crazy price increases, the change of situation in the hobby doesn't feel too dramatic. And secondly, come to think of it, the overall situation is changing in a strange way. Thing is, in the last 2-3 years I noticed that prices for all toys (even those for little kids) have become crazy high overall. For example, a (relatively) nice-looking doll that we recently bought for my wife's 5-year old niece did cost roughly as much as a full-sized 10-model 40k squad box. That was far from the most expensive dolls too - more elaborate ones would cost as much as an Imperial Knight or even more. And that's a regular toy store for you. This made me wonder if GW actually tunes its prices to match the overall market of quality toys. At least, seeing those prices I can't help thinking that, weirdly enough, right now it's probably less impossible to imagine parents buying their kid a bunch of 40k models than it was 15 years ago - because most other toys are just as expensive anyway. That said, in the last couple of years the 40k community has expanded with many new players, most of them young - and most of them play with models bought from pirate recasters. Speaks for itself, really.

[@getsomegetsomenow]

Why did you buy them if you don't value them accordingly? They charge what the market is willing to pay. YOU AND OTHERS LIKE YOU ARE WILLING TO BUY ENOUGH THAT THEY TURN A PROFIT.

[@rickykemp]

This. This so much.

[@rickykemp]

This. This so much.

[@FrEdwardHauschild]

GW have a monopoly on decent quality miniatures; they have no competition so their extortionate prices are unchallenged. The choice isn't: GW or a reasonably priced alternative, but GW or no hobby at all

[@hellvjumper]

For me, the prices are not as high as people make out. Maybe this is just because I'm more into the modelling side of the hobby, but I'm fine with paying full price for a box of models. I take my time with building, painting and the odd conversion, and when I'm finally finished with a great looking model that I've spent my time on, it seems like money well spent. From what I can see, the people who tend to complain about the prices are the people who don't give a rat's ass about what their models look like and only use them for gaming. Nobody really likes killing an army of grey models.

[@Sup3rSaiy3n]

Oh yeah I'm definitely into the modelling side of the hobby like yourself. Part of me thinks that sometimes, not all the time, GW are taking the mick or testing their market to see what they can get away with. Just one current example is the Gorkanaut vs Stompa. For £5 more you're getting a much nicer model imo, that you can spend more time modelling and painting that just happens to have great rules too. Maybe I'm just a little cynical but for good reason.

[@hellvjumper]

***** I do agree somewhat about the prices if you look at the stompa. It's a huge model, and then look at the knight. It's a lot smaller than the stompa, but it's £10 more expensive. Another instance is when I bought some centurions, and it hit me that it was £50 for 3 models! But in all honesty, it doesn't really bother me.

[@deadrelitecallum2194]

Totally agreed! finally a person with similar view to mine!

[@hakunamatata9680]

it's a bit like drugs imo. GW/drugs are started with small amounts at low cost, the more addicted you become the more you spend and the easier the justification of that expenditure becomes. the problem for GW is that they've increased the price of that 'first hit' so much (see other posts here that state the price of a GW starter set with paints and other needed accessories) that people won't/can't try it in the first place. older GW vets are already addicted and will no doubt always find a way to get their fix but where is the next generation of gamers coming from?

[@EkonBor]

I disagree, I'm also into the modelling side of the hobby definitely more so than the gaming side but i also come from a scale modelling angle mostly 1:48 aircraft which usually entail aftermarket options such as photo etch, full resin cockpits and engines and if i were to compare what I would get for 80 pounds from hannants as opposed to forge world or god forbid games workshop new zealand which is significantly more expensive than buying from gw uk , I definitely get more bang for my buck just buying an airfix spitfire and embellishing it with all the aftermarket goodies. Perhaps when gw finally go bust hornby might pick them up and redirect them towards the light just as they did air fix

[@ASERags]

It is still for everybody. You just can't buy a whole army in one go. I'm a 26 year old student (working part time as an asset consultant besides my studies) and recently got back into the hobby with a few friends. Over the last 3 months we built up 500 point armies (hopefully get to 1k in the next 3 month) with roughly spending 140€ over said three months. I'm also in collecting knifes and I just changed my focus for a bit to spent some money on 40k instead of my other collection. It does not break the bank if you get 1 maybe 2 packs a month, just enjoy the other aspects of the hobby, take your time painting and maybe even playing lower point games and built up your army step by step. PS: This does not mean I'm fine with GWs price pplitics, but i still think the hobby is still manageable if you're not rich.

[@jasonsoliva6678]

Everyone we gotta proxy the shit out GW in the name of the emprah

[@Mikey__R]

If I remember right, in the mid 90s you could buy a blister pack of three Space Marines, or four Eldar for £4. Individually, mail order was £1.35 for a Space Marine, or £2 for a captain or sergeant, and I thought that was expensive then. And I distinctly remember reading one of my brothers old White Dwarfs from a couple years earlier, with models for 50p, and wondering even then how bits of lead could have got so much more expensive in a short time. 20 something years later and I'm wondering if I really want to get back into 40k, or if War Machine would be a better choice.

[@leakycheese]

Mikey R Yep, you remember correctly. When I started out in '88 with the release of Rogue Trader 3 metal Space Marines cost £2.50, 30 plastic marines was £9.99 as were 3 Rhinos and two plastic Land Raiders cost £12.99.

[@Mikey__R]

leakycheese yeah, I had that Marine kit! Mk6 armour with the pointy beaks. I used them for the basis of some conversions I did for my art GCSE. Those models were really pants, they used the beige plastic, you had to use the later grey plastic Marine arms and weapons to make them look decent.

[@manweller1]

I have thought about going back into GW as I was a gamer back in 88 until 94. I went into the shop looked at the prices and thought to myself, are you taking the piss or what. Back to the gym and cheap DVDs from poundland.

[@TheSPACECOWBOY33]

manweller1 I wanted to get back into it as well but I cannot justify those prices.

[@manweller1]

TheSPACECOWBOY33 I know trooper I can't afford it I admit it.

[@TheSPACECOWBOY33]

manweller1 same here I can't afford it either. It's just too much money.

[@darthbane3215]

luckily I was able to get mortarion as a gift from someone as he’s gone up to around £90 now

[@IdolsHextech]

When I used to play LotR:SBG as a kid, i'd pay £15 for 24 models. My parents thought that was extortionate. Now models for The Hobbit cost up to £15 for 3 man-sized models. What the fuck, GW. I am a big Privateer Press fan but even they charged £40 for Butcher3 (3 models, 2 of which are dogs).

[@Max-ou4zg]

Aren't they so expensive because the demand is so low, when the demand is low then oyu have to set your prices high.

[@dtaliesin6638]

Unfortunately that just really isn't true, 'supply in demand' is half a lie. It's true that the higher the demand, the lower the price usually but GW stuff is high demand and their logic says they should charge you an arm and a leg for their models cause they know you'll buy it. It's capitalism at its dirtiest.

[@Max-ou4zg]

Oh I just now saw that I mixed it up, but yeah GW's prices are just one big eldar trickery...

[@dtaliesin6638]

Der Dude I like that analogy my friend :)

[@Commandcombat]

I don't understand why anyone stuck with Games Workshop for this long. They've been all about ripping off and suing their own customers for years now; maybe more than a decade.

[@Sup3rSaiy3n]

Commandcombat I remember the hobby in 2005, actually when I worked for them. I used to get 50% discount in store, part-time hours, more than one employee in the store and could purchase metal models based on their weight. I feel it has specifically come to a head within the past year though. I have a video out next week that covers the reasons on why I'm taking a break from the hobby (I'll still be making videos).

[@jahliar]

Commandcombat Two reasons: peers how play it as well, and investment. If you already have an army and extend it a bit every now and then it's still cheaper than starting from scratch with something else. And a significant part of your player community would need to switch, too.

[@cody9305]

11-12 years ago, I'd go in and get 20 Night Goblins for $40... I wanted to get back into it, and I went in to see that there's no more pewter miniatures and the price has almost tripled. $100 for 5 Vampire Count horse men?! And they're plastic?! No wonder why both shops in the big malls shut down and they got banished to the low income area of town....

[@calvinandhobbes730]

the hobby is for people who like Warhammer, people who enjoy the models, people who like the rules. not everything needs an age group, and not everything needs to be bought from retail. On top of that, you don't need to constantly buy new models or paints unless you want to. Even video games, which you brought up, are still expensive. If I bought a brand new ps4, and 2 games, I am in 520 dollars and around 50 to 60 hours of entertainement, but If I drop 500 on warhammer I can get an 1000 pt. army that will get me through quite a few games.

[@skugnjgsshpodms310]

Ok, lets examine that example. I'll even up it to a more expensive range. For about 1500$ every 5 years you have a gaming computer, for 20$ you have minecraft, for 0$ you have a whole ton of microtransaction games, got 15$ a month you have any number of mmos. Pick what you like. There is simply no way that 40k gives more hours of enjoyment per dollar. Plus all the non game related uses for the pc. 40k is more expensive than motorcycles per hour of enjoyment, just think about that for a moment.

[@xACKORx]

skugnjgs shpodms It's all about how you spend your money vs. how you use what you spent it on. With warhammer I've spent much but I spend about 60% of my spare time working or playing with it. I feel I've got my moneys worth. Unlike some of my other hobbies.

[@cronotekk9193]

skugnjgs shpodms 1500 dollars, for a computer that lasts 5 years? You can build one for half that price to last you twice as long!Just because consoles become obsolete in 5 years, doesn't mean Pc's do as well.

[@OmnipotentPeaceMan]

Slim Skaven Gaming Oh please, only 60 hours of entertainment? judging by that you only play the game once, so apply that to war hammer, you get a 1 hour game of warhammer, It does come to money, what kid can afford those prices? let alone 2 kids, because it takes 2 people just to play the game.

[@calvinandhobbes730]

who said everything is for kids? Plus you are forgetting assembly, painting, and how many 1 hour games of warhammer are you playing? at a decent point cost they run 2-4 hours.

[@MalinOfSweden]

Very good questions. I definitely agree that price has skyrocketed of GW models and also, do you Really get the details worth in comparison to resin kits that are popping up more so frequently? If you ask me do definitely think GW nowadays aim more towards keeping already established buyers with existing armies then recruiting new players (collectors). That is what I believe is the reason to why prices has gone up because the majority or the players today have the income to pay for the products apart from that GW sales has gone down. The obvious reaction to this dis to increase price. Maybe I'm misinformed but that's my opinion.

[@derekkrumel1407]

damn this is from 2013? I'm so frickin miffed that it's gotten worse.

[@owtelse]

The prices are getting ridiculous. They never have any sales or very really have any deals. Best thing to do is to find a good independent supplier who can usually give a discount.

[@sharpo88]

I can understand where GW get their pricing from. As a product designer, I have designed plastic components for manufacture. And yes these parts are extremely detailed, the main cost of plastic part production is the manufacturing of the moulds. I could easily see the cost for the mould for five space marines run into at least 10-20K because of the fine detail in the tooling. However once the tooling is completed, the cost per unit will be cheap as chips. I'm talking £1-2 per sprue, But once they factor in the overheads of the company / Factory packaging I can see where the high cost comes in, Manufacturing in china isn't as cheap as it once was. The eastern work force are becoming more aware and are demanding higher wages, much like what happened in the UK. So that is where the rise in price comes from again, Also with the rise in popularity of video games kids and teens are building less models, the are playing less football....etc, the way society is changing is causing these kind of hobbies to die, its only a matter of time before it sinks. That's just my opinion. you will have the die hard fans and the a small minority who will still play it. but that's not enough to keep a business afloat.

[@JadeDude1973]

It is a bit of a let-down to open a box of GW products that just came in the mail, and see just how little product you got for the price. Gotta keep your eyes peeled for opportunities. The best deal I've gotten recently was when a fellow player had some Stormclaw Nobz left over; I bought them for $16 and he threw some Gretchin in for free. Also grabbed some Cadian Shock Troopers for $14.50 when my LGS decided to drop all GW products.

[@theemperor-wh40k18]

I think it's worth it, you spend so much time to model, after to paint the miniatures it takes a lot of time! Of course it's expensive if you buy 100 models in one time and do nothing with them, but yeah that's my points of view.

[@XxFPSnoobxX]

im under the impression that this is NOT for young adults as this is generally the best time to get on with the wild and dangerous things you will do in your life, but as a teenager, a child and entering your senior years for the simple reason is that its a peaceful thing to do in your retirement.

[@blairfenning7718]

I for myself have chosen not to purchase new GW models any longer. I won't play age of sigmar, and any further incarnation of 40k is done for me as well. In my opinion GW could care less about the gaming community or those of us who put way to much money into a hobby. I have found other game that I feel are just as good as any I have played from GW, at a fraction of the cost. It's sad because I used to love the lore and purchased many books, but I used to think GW was making games because they love making games. My opinion now is they only care about the money. My guess is in a few years it wont matter as I see 3d printing as the death of GW anyway. Farewell GW rest in peace.

[@andrewhannagan2019]

Good video Sup3rSaiy3n. A couple of years ago a friend and I calculated using catalogues of 1993 that equivalent products were more expensive but in line with inflation, more or less. Then 2011. Regional pricing, NZ prices 20-35% more expensive for no reason overnight. It's continued in that vein.

[@PhilBarratt]

Im a life-long GW fan and recently got back into the hobby, whilst its true that some figures are not good value (£18 for one captain) many other things are quite reasonable. Dark Vengence got the ball rolling again and with a few additions that was it. Im playing again all for about £150 inc paints. When I think of the xbox games ive bought over the years for £35-45 a go that i will never play again, it puts GQ in context. Consoles are £300+ and break or get replaced every few years, with this in mind, i'll always have a Dark Angels force and whilst Im always gunna want new squads, my army can just grow and change over time. Plus all the many many hours of enjoyment paintingh/ kit-bashing GW's prices dosnt seem to bad. My feeling now as well is that with the release of new table top games such as warmachine that this style of gaming is coming back and I cant wait to see whats next. To add to the larger debate, Im 30 so now that Im not paying for GW with my paper-round the hobby seem far more open to me now.

[@Rob749s]

They need to synchronise the release of all rules and codex to approximately every 3 years. Halfway through they should start open beta testing. I'm okay with trickle release of models, but they need to get the rules to align... I can see why the single units are more expensive, I think they are trying to align dollar costs with points cost, so that no one simply gathers a collection of characters. I can only guess that costs keep going u because people keep paying. They are creating a very dangerous economic bubble for themselves. Like yourself, people are starting to question their loyalty and whether or not they can afford this hobby. After that, they lose economies of scale and its all downhill from there. It's quite sad really, Warhammer 40k is possibly my favourite IP, and I'd rather not see it go under due to greed.

[@Sup3rSaiy3n]

Completely agree.

[@CryingPanSFX]

the reason why they stagger the release of new books and models, is because you sell more. if you release the Tau Codex, SM Codex, and Eldar codex, a person who collects all three will not be nearly as willing or content to buy all three than if there was a 90 day gap between the three books. They look at their shopping cart of all three books and a few models thrown in for good measure and mentally say, "that's a huge chunk of money I wont have this month." However, If they are only buying the eldar book with a sack of guardians (approximately 80CAD), they think, "Eh, my wife spent that much on shoes this month. I can afford it." It's evil, but necessary to drive sales. Remember that GW has repeated over and over that they are a collector's company first, and a gaming company second.

[@Rob749s]

PerfectTangent I understand that, but my gripe is actually the constant state of "one-upmanship" every codex release. Since Rogue Trader, not once have the rules for every army in the game been playtested and balanced against each other. This makes the product feel unfinished as it is technically in a constant "beta" state. If I'm "investing" $1000+ in a game, I don't want the game itself to feel like a bunch of "home rules", regardless of the quality of the components.

[@DukeDanseMacambre]

a TV 10 years ago top of the line was £300, now its £2000+. Things change, not always for the better but it can't climb forever and will have to level out and that is the way of things so for now, lets enjoy the positive and make sure we enjoy what we have even more, you may not be able to have as much but its better than it was and it time it will still grow, greed just stops the appreciation of great hobbies.

[@nerv5th]

I would like to see a similar video for 2020 papa bless!

[@MarcinObuchowski]

Not to defend this hobby, but maybe it's for people who don't spend their money on watches and knives :P?

[@Sup3rSaiy3n]

Personal attack at what I spend my money on which is totally unrelated to the question raised and also none of your business. Easy response with little info to back it up. Come back when you have all the right information and we'll have a real conversation. I am not going to do your homework for you to falsify your statement.

[@MarcinObuchowski]

How is this an attack? You either spend your money on one hobby, another or something completely different. By that standard it's not your business who plays WH40k and why they spend money on that. Despite the fact I hate the prices of GW, we must remember they are not idiots and spend huge amounts on money to make sure they make even more. Sorry if I upset you

[@Sup3rSaiy3n]

Marcin Obuchowski Maybe you should have worded your statement a little better? Similar to what your second comment read like would've sufficed. You didn't upset me tho bro but I welcome your apology. I was just concerned at how quickly you went about to criticise what other things I spend my money on (Which I then spend a ton of time and money to share them with everyone on youtube). You then used that against me as ammunition to drive home your statement. This time your ammo was blank though. Allow me to elaborate (I wouldn't need to if you'd done your homework like I suggested). Although I cannot deny that I buy knives, however FYI the last knife I bought cost £30 a couple of months ago and before that was back in Jan. Also I've bought one watch this year and buy just one every year. The point is what I spend on knives and watches doesn't come close in denting what I spend on this hobby. Your first statement is obvious. It doesn't even need to be said. Of course I know there are choices in which hobby funds are allocated. Everyone realises this too. However that's not the issue here as you should be able to tell from my other videos I spend more on this hobby than any other. By a long way. I spent more in one week the other week than I have on knives all year. It's that expensive. Ultimately though I don't think you understand the question I posted. It was not who can and who can't play 40K nor was it questioning whether they should spend their money on it. It was at who is this hobby is aimed at? You took my question and aimed it at me. I was asking the question. You say you don't want me to spend any of my money on GW products anymore because I have other hobbies. That's ridiculous. Why even bother posting that. I think who it is aimed at has fundamentally changed. Others will agree. I don't think even Games Workshop know who it is aimed at anymore. I am entitled to ask that question given my contribution to this hobby. I had other hobbies when I first collected many years ago but my point was that this hobby did not take up the largest piece of pie back then. I was illustrating how difficult it must be for hobbyists with limited available funds to invest most of those funds into just one hobby. It certainly wasn't meant to invoke a factually redundant one-liner aimed at my own personal spending decisions. That's all mate. No hard feelings bro.

[@scratchfeachers]

it seems you haven't collected the hobby for years, basically 15yrs ago a tactical squad cost $35, for the same squad with a few extra weapon options the squad now costs $62. After 17yrs I will NOT be continuing the hobby because of cost

[@Sup3rSaiy3n]

Chris S You're wrong about me Chris I have been collecting for may than 15 years and a squad cost £10 back then and they now cost £25. Thats 2 and a half times more than 15 years ago.

[@MiniatureGaming1]

Personally, I think that the hobby is for GW stockholders and investors, However, there is a niche' for the hobby, and hobbyists will continue to purchase these models no matter the cost.

[@andspiders]

I see exactly where you're coming from, and it's pretty reassuring to see an increasing number of people feeling this way too. I can never remember a time when GW's miniatures were particularly reasonable by way of price, and I can appreciate that the quality of their miniatures is quite a lot higher than the majority, but at the same time I do wonder whether they're deliberately trying to alienate casual collectors by ramping the prices up to the lofty heights only achievable by the landed gentry.

[@Sup3rSaiy3n]

+andspiders Completely agree with your train of thought. I'm not sure if they are deliberately trying to alienate casuals but it sure does give the impression. The entry cost may be too high for newcomers and veterans or collectors can only put up with their prices for so long before they move on to something else to collect. I also think collectors get kicked in the teeth by all of their limited editions or limited runs. They have an incredible back story for their models and make some truly fantastic miniatures but sometimes their business model works against their existing customer base. I do feel they are appealing to fewer and fewer people as time goes on.

[@TheChunkeyNinja]

I haven't played warhammer in many years, I remember when I started when I was 12-13, you could get a SM tactical squad (10 models) for £15 and an assault squad for £12, now they are £25 and £20.50 respectively. I remember back then when I was amazed when they increased the prices of these sets by £3 - seems silly now. Now I'm a proper adult (sort of) and I have income, I am about to start up again, but was worried about the prices. I'm just happy I managed to find Yoymart (cheap chinese site) where you can get the same quality minis for a half to a third the price of the GW ones.

[@ScooterinAB]

What was that? 18 pounds for a single model? If my conversion is right, when I started playing, I used to be able to buy an entire SM sqaud for that much. On the sort of bright side, this high cost of entry does make it a bit of an elite hobby, which goes directly against previous criticism that too many uninterested players were getting into the hobby. This does sort of vet the quality of players, since only the most serious or.most wealthy can play. I'm not sure if that's really a good thing or not, but it is something to recognize.

[@Zack0]

funny enough i was asking the same question myself. i have followed and enjoyed the warhammer fantasy and 40k universe for over 12 years about now and indeed the question popped up aswel. every year a new rulebook comes out "new edition rules" twice a year a new codex and like all year round new units to get. paint and brushes and all other tools required are expensive for that it realy is. i enjoy warhammer because its quite an unique in dept tabletop game but in all these years i had to stop playing because its insanely expensive. not to mention that tanks can be like £100 a pop for a simple land raider redeemer variation. everytime i check the units there are more and more comming out with minor variations (the whole baneblade spinnoff is a good example) Baneblade, Stormsword, Banehammer, Doomhammer, stormlord, shadowsword, banesword, hellhammer. these are i shit ya not £85 a piece. i think this is a hobby for those who have to much income for their own good.

[@TheLegonut101]

If you think the prices are high in the UK, check out the Australian prices.

[@tallshort1849]

I played 40k back in the late 80s early 90s and it’s always been expensive. My son has started playing it now and in comparison I would say it’s better value now than it was back then.

[@lucyshepard8558]

This is why you buy 40k minis from china now.

[@JadeDude1973]

Pinko.

[@sallygdy]

i've played when I was 16 first time... and it was 16 years ago... the models were just impossible to buy back then, even if they were cheaper. Now in my 30's... yeah. i can see the pricetag on the box, but hell, if i like it, i am buying it... and the difference is, that as a kid I did not have an incom other than my pocket money, and some little part time jobs here and there during summer vacations... Now it is just a different story. If just my girl knew, how much do I really spend on buying grey plastic...

[@kurukblackflame]

The plastic characters tend to be a bit pricey but I don't think GW have gone up in price in all regards. Eg-The 'new' space marine dreadnoughts were £20 when they came out in 1993. Now I can get one for £21 online (plastic rather than metal but that's an improvement in my opinion). Not a bad price increase for 24 years-£1. I tend to try to get characters in the 'start collecting' sets where possible. The thing with plastic is that the initial outlay is high (CAD designing the miniature, tooling the molds)whilst the material is cheap-So it's really a method that's better suited to items that will be produced in very high numbers. Character models tend not to be produced in really high volumes (vs rank and file troopers) so their 'per figure' cost will be higher to cover the design and development. Resin might be a better solution-although it's not a whole lot cheaper and in the end it becomes more expensive if a large number of models are required. The newer plastic figures tend to be better than resin and everyone hates finecast. I agree that the single characters should be a bit cheaper (£12-£15 maybe?) but a lot of the other stuff is pretty good value (starter sets, start collecting boxes -many of the non-character kits). It just happens that you bought some of the more expensive items here. As to the hobby being more expensive that video games-is the starter set and some plastic glue more than buying a PS4 and a couple of games? Which will hold it's value better-a well looked after collection of miniatures or a video game console and games? There are games that were £60 a year ago now selling for £5 second hand. Not many modern consoles keep working for more than five years or so. With a few rare exceptions, game collections will become all but worthless after just a few years. With miniatures you're not losing a lot of money. You can always sell them on and not lose a lot of what you payed for them.

[@mattjagger9581]

this is the injustice of schools to young people. I'll explain. Let's run a quick general costs in life for someone that works. 2 bedroom hovel in gang land. .. 35k, mortgage: £185pcm plus 3k deposit in the first place and the buying process will not give you much change from 2k gas & electric £90 car, finance £150pcm for a rubbish Citroën or similar from a dealership. council tax £90-120pcm perhaps fuel (conservative) £200 food: £200 based just on living!!! and working your essentially throwing away £1000 a month to survive in life. now when I was at school my capitalistic farther explained all this and my school was, pretty the ball too. for example what do you want to do in life matt? err, mechanic!! well that's only reallygoing to make you 25k a year it's rewarding work but you'll be cold sore and covered in grease all day. 25k a year in 20 years will be the same as £6.50 an hour now (1998) oh, right. Well I won't have any money to do anything other than live..... bang!! there's your problem and solution all in one. economics should be anyone's driving force to choosing a career. granted its the musician not the instrument......my brother has 2 degrees one in maths the other in mechanical engineering, yet he's working in McDonald's at 29years old. he's essentially intelligent but thick in common sense terms. me on the other hand, zero qualifications yet I own a medium sized building company. the key point is an awareness of life's costs and your ability to be motivated by money. I wrote off any idea of spare time to play with my willy watch films and generally have a hobby......the opposite of my brother, he's got every game console game etc he squandered his spare time in the pursuit of pleasure. I used mine to obtain wealth......now, I have as much spare time as I want, I'm the boss!!!!!! not for everybody and most people Un motivated by money generally will rip me to pieces and come out with the "well it shouldn't be like that things should be cheaper" but in reality if you have money, everything is cheap. so going back to why it's an injustice. people spoilt by their families and miss informed by schools wonder why the £1200 a month isn't going anywhere. You've been conditioned to believe being happy is paramount. it is.......but at the cost of money!! and seeing as everyone in this hobby seems to moan about the cost........... why don't you swap some x box time, hobby time, chilling time, to obtaining more money to make your hobby cheap??? its this simple in its most utterly basic form bottom of the scale silly (but tested!! I've done it) 1 ton of aluminium, how many pop cans are in the bushes and bins, will return once weighed in £130 give or take 20/30 quid. if you spent 4hrs a week collecting cans rapid and with a smile on your face, you would return realistically in your pocket £200-400 in a month. That's external of your earnings, that's for free for you, free money. for those that will say Yeah but you can't Yeah but we shouldn't have to and yeah what about inland revenue and trespassing etc are purely procrastinating to poo poo the idea because money......Doesn't motivate you. you want to work 8hrs a day and expect all companies and products to make sure you can have what you want when you want and leave you with plenty of money left to play with. life's not like that. my dad always said happiness is for your spare time, a job is for life. your not supposed to enjoy work, Your supposed to enjoy your spare time. it's sad to see so many people miserable in thier spare time because of a lack of money to supplement interests. dead easy.... make more money.

[@mattjagger9581]

also you mentioned that casts cost a lot of money. around 3-5k per new steel mould. yet you say £20 is a lot of money. but the reason things are expensive for no apparent reason, is, well you've got the answer in your hand. You've bought it. I'm s business man, I increase the prices of my services in my business yearly, it's only when people stop using me I know my ceiling height on how much I can charge has been met. if I were games workshop I'd charge more!! because regardless of the moaning everyone keeps buying the products. it's a business not a charity. it's a business not a hobby to the owners. until people stop buying products the prices will keep rising. but the little man the man with a few spare pounds a month isn't a concern, when people more affluent are spending as much as they are. I'm thinking of returning to the hobby from the rogue trader days. I actually thought it was expensive back in the 90's. because I only had a Saturday job......again money being relative. looking at it now, for £1000 investment I'll be able to get what I want and be happy. that's not a lot of money. I did motocross, that's 6-7-8k a year I did Thai boxing for year's! I was there every day training, sometimes twice a day. at £7 per class, plus diet supplements, traveling to fight opponents in the UK or abroad that was probably knocking on 10-15k a year cost is relative. if you are say......a project manager for a construction company you'd earn over 40k. if you lived in a small one bed flat you'd have 1500 a month spare to play with. it's all about aiming high earning high things then get cheap.

[@rscott222]

I'm new to the hobby but the sticker prices don't shock me. I've spent a lot of money on MTG as well just playing casually and going to weekly events. I thnk any hobby can be expensive when you are passionate about it. I think the real question is whether you feel like you are getting a good return on your investment. Even though I've spent so much on Magic, the friends I've met, and the sense of community is well worth the cost to me. I'm just starting in Warhammer but there is so much entertainment content related to it out there like this video, podcasts and conventions that go along with the purchase of the models.

[@Warriorking1963]

Sell off all that GW rubbish and get into historical wargaming instead. Just as much fun, get a chance to learn a bit of the (real) history behind the force you're building, and a tiny fraction of the cost involved! Eighty Six quid for that - for a book and seven figures..? With all due respect mate, you need your head looked at!

[@FullmetalTimo]

+Warriorking1963 but not everybody is interested in historical WG, some of us just want to play 40k or fantasy

[@adamstephenson14]

Speaking as a 14 year old it is a very expensive hobby. However with discount sites and decent management of how much you get in what amount of time it can be affordable. I always buy my models from Wayland games which take a good 20% off taking a tactical squad from £25 down to £20. You can also make captains or chapter masters out of bits which removes the £11 for one model. I can get about a squad a month from pocket money (£5 a week) so you just build your collection slowly. It's taken me a year to buy a full 2000 pt space marine army. The big stuff like vehicles you can ask for at Bday + Christmas. That is how I have a Storm Raven and Storm Talon in my army. Really it is just aimed at anyone who is patient and can take it slow; or has bottomless pockets...

[@dan11596]

Just wanted to mention also, just stepping foot into a Warhammer shop you get bombarded with questions and sales tactics, an example, popped into one the other day (won't say where) but I liked the new Warhammer boxed set Age of Sigmar, I said to the persistent shop guy (After much barracking) that I could not justify the £75 and the fact that my wife would kill me! and I have loads of unpainted stuff to get through with my sons, he said to me, "That's not important to me, I've got to try to sell it to you" and he continued to try to sell it until I felt I had to leave! Just wondered if anybody else gets these issues at their local shop? ultimately they come across as friendly and I'm sure they are but it's a tactic to talk you into buying more and more from a hobby which I feel will eventually turn people away because of their colossal price hikes.

[@cianmcswiney2505]

The last thing I got was Betrayal at Calth. €125 for basically a full army is pretty good, but I'm waiting for the rumoured sequel before expanding my collection. It's just too expensive otherwise, especially for 30k

[@steinarne79]

Im just curious... isn't this just combination of increased materialism compared to 20 years back, and the lesser value of currency?

[@Crummyimperialmilk]

I've done me some pricing. I'm a 17 year old bored child. I have seen my dad's old Metal ultra marine army he's had for over twenty years, and I wanted to try this hobby, because, "Why not?" I did some pricing for what you need just to get your foot in the door if you just want try this hobby (playing, painting, conversions etc) and here is what in my opinion you need to start. 2 Squads of whatever faction, (we'll go with space marines because they are most popular) a transport, a starter hobby set, a carrying case, rule book, codex, templates and dice (10-30 D6). All for fresh start on this game. All with current money conversions of when this comment was posted. 1 Citadel Build + Paint Set 33$-25.02 English Pound (EP just to save time for the rest of them) 2 Space Marine Tactical Squads 80$- 60.65 EP 1 Space Marine Land Raider 74.25$-56.29 EP 1 Codex: Space Marines 58$-43.97 EP 1 Universal Templates set 13.25$- 10.05 EP 1 Ultramarines Dice set 20$-15.16 EP 1 Warhammer 40,000 (English) book set 85$-64.44 EP 1 Citadel Battle Figure Case 83$-62.92 EP This is if you want to buy from games workshop and have a good start on this hobby, now let's add up both currency prices. $361.50-338.50 English Pounds. That's is how much you would pay to start this hobby where you use CHEAP PLASTIC MODELS to play the game, it's all cheap materials they pay most for the molds and after that all they pay for is plastic, they are making a killing. My verdict: Fuck games workshop ( I have such little respect for them I won't even capitalize their name), don't buy from them, buy off of Ebay and local retailers. Games workshop is a bunch of money grabbers. Don't tell me, "Oh they do pay a lot". Yeah I'm sure it's more expensive to make these little plastic fuckers than it was to make the Metal ones twenty years ago when they were cheap to buy from GW, (considering we can make plastic out of a lot of different things, whilst metal is more limited). Ebay will make this hobby easier.

[@Sup3rSaiy3n]

I will reply to your comment because it looks like you've spent a lot of time writing it. I guess when you look at all of the initial costs it can be off putting. So much passion (all the swearing) for someone who has not experienced any part of the hobby (assumption as you don't mention in your comment) but has mainly focussed on the initial cost. Buy just one set or a squad, play a game using your dad's models to see if you feel any different. You don't have to buy all those things in your list at once. I didn't. I remember buying a squad of 5 with paints. A month later I bought some terminators, then a dreadnought and so on. I remember taking them to a local club once a week and joining forces with another player. This was when I had very little income, think I was 12 with a job. Yes you can buy second hand models off eBay if you want to cut costs but still be part of the hobby. Anyway whatever you choose to do, make sure you have fun. The moment you don't move on to a different hobby. Thanks again for sharing your opinion.

[@CassusBeli]

I can shed some light. I'm now much older but between the ages of around 12-16 I was heavily Into painting GW figures. I never played the game but I bought a lot of lead figures and became very good at painting them, which I enjoyed Immensely. They were originally all metal and I remember when they Introduced the plastics with the Space marines and Titans etc. Plastic Is extremely cheap to use as a material and also lighter so Its cheaper to transport. I used to spend most of my money on figures, paints etc. Even back then they were not dirt cheap but It was possible to buy most Items no problem. These modern figures are plastic and the prices are frankly disgusting. The prices appear to have Increased at vastly Inflated rate over the years. If I was In my early teens again I would not be able to afford this as a hobby!

[@MrWhite5150Duke]

I remember when ten tactical marines cost $20.00 US, back in 3rd edition. I think the land raider was $40-$50. Price is a deterrent, but it's cheaper than deep sea fishing, for instance. I've always loved the lore and art of 40k, and the flavor, so I don't mind spending money on 40k, to a limit. I avoid Apocalypse, completely, and I won't collect more than 1500pts (excluding alternate options). I'm also a big fan of box sets. The starter sets are also great values. 🍺💨

[@ImaginationHobbies]

I think the prices are ridiculous but its for who ever is willing to pay it. As long as people buy it the prices will continue to go up. The rules and usefulness of units rotate and go in cycles just to maximize profit. It truely is an addiction. I've "quit" 7 times. Each time I rebuy its more expensive. I've at least vowed to myself not to sell my models off in case I start again haha

[@TheHobojebus]

Look at this years financial report sales are 10% down on last year and share prices dropped 24%. Clearly people are not buying the new stuff.

[@SkullyTheHypnoSkull]

Here in California, it's for stoners. You probably don't have any clue how awesome W40K is when you're stoned (because the UK hates marijuana so much that they made it illegal) but, stoners like delicate things with detail. I have so many expensive glass pipes and bongs and they look great as background objects on Eldar worlds! And I like to read when I'm stoned too, reading a grim 40K novel when you're stoned is rad.

[@norsewind8686]

Recently I got about £80 in GW vouchers, I bought a getting started deathwatch set and a spray can, I had to use about £5 or so to buy the deathwatch codex on top of what I planned to spend. I got home, unpacked my haul and my partner who knows not very much about 40k said "so how much have you got left in vouchers?"...of course we all know that answer ^^. Although I am grateful to my family for the vouchers I found myself looking at a book and 12 models thinking....."fuck, I didn't even buy lunch"

[@FluffyWesties]

Gave up on GW hobbies MANY years ago, their pricing was and is ridiculous, amazed that they are still in business. Actually.. I have in my 'hobby / man cave' a box of (here's one for the oldies) a box of plastic space marines, the original boxed set, unopened. I have one of the OLD dreadnaught suits. I have a box somewhere with an entire army of old metal Orcs and an original Orc dreadnought (the small one).

[@braddeicas5708]

I love your video. I do not look at gw videos or product anymore really, I only saw this because of your knife videos. I worked for gw for going on 13 years here in the U.S. The terms of my leaving the company are not the question, but I can say it left a sour taste in my mouth. I have not done anything with the hobby since then, around 2008. I would like to make some points. First, people buy gw products because it is a HOBBY. Hobbyists tend to be obsessive about the things they collect, and yes, collection is part of a hobby. I know that if I am collecting something, I want what I want. For example, it I am collecting Case knives, I want a Case knife. There may be more/less expensive traditional slip joints out there, some of which I may like to have, but to scratch the itch for a Case, I have to buy a Case. It is just that simple. Next, the games workshop hobby does exist, regardless of how you try to slice it. It exists because they keep a tight wrap on the intellectual property, which they should. Gw does not look at any other miniature company as their competition, it is just that simple. If you want gw miniatures gw is going to get their money. What many people don't understand is that gw does not look at the rules as being the big part of the hobby. That where everyone goes wrong. I have sat in meetings where this discussion was had with very high ranking people in the company. They realize that there are different rules systems, some of which are better, some worse, but the rules are not the essence of gw, the ip is. People that bitch about rules and such miss this point, rules are simply a way to play with your toys, if you have a better system, knock yourself out, just stop being such a whiner. The gw hobby is about collecting, painting, and playing, in that order, what makes gw so good is their ip, which others offering games stand no chance at. Quality is what it is, either like it or not, but anyone who says the models of old are better than the newer model (plastic for plastic being the caveat), is full of it. You may like the older model for nostalgic reasons but to say the old 1 pose plastic chaos warrior box from 1990 is better overall than what is put out now is just delusional. People have been saying that gw will slit its own throat for years, hasn't happened yet. They charge what they charge because the fully feel that they set the value for the hobby, you know what? They are right because people keep paying the prices. The original intent of this video was to ask who the hobby was for now. Is it for the same target audience as it was 25 years ago? Is it still for the 14 year old boy? I can't answer that, but I can tell you that the number of 14 year olds running around in New York City (for example) with $100 bills in their pockets when I was in that area 10 years ago would amaze you. The one answer I can give to the question is this, the hobby is not for everyone. Gw top execs said that over and over for years when I worked there. It is a niche hobby that depends on satisfying their hardcore base. It is not about rules and war gaming per se, though that is a part, it is about the imagery/ip. While I was with gw (and before), I loved the hobby. I did because of the complete immersion you could do with story, background, etc... I can tell you though that the hobby is not for me right now. I can not afford/choose not to afford it. Is it expensive compared to other miniatures? Maybe, but that is not why I don't participate. I choose not to due to where I choose to spend my very limited disposable income. My opinion of gw is somewhat skewed. While there my marriage deteriorated past the point of return, I lost my house house and suffered a bankruptcy due to this. The company is cut-throat. I thought that this was going to be a pretty big rip on gw, but it seems not to have turned out that way. I think the reason is that despite the people currently involved with the company, the hobby is still pretty pure, and if you are involved in a hobby, you can't judge it by the money you put into it. You would go crazy. ETA: Guys, I remember buying gas for $1/gallon. It's the same gas. Take the hint and if all you want to do is bitch about price, well, I am glad I don't work with gw anymore so I don't have to put up with your shit.

[@JadeDude1973]

Damn... that job cost you your sanity.

[@calronisalphero8860]

In Australia it's more expenses like 30 to 40 for you guys for us it's like 90 to 100

[@brianhannabb4645]

first started wh40k back 1990 when my son was 11 and housebound though illness , we started with some kits ended up with nearly all space marines /orks plus lots machines when he was 16 he gave them all away. i started at christmas yeh the price is flipping mad now

[@Sup3rSaiy3n]

+brian hannaebb Thank you for sharing your story. The price is pretty high for return hobbyists.

[@2SSSR2]

So... Here 5 marines are 22 GBP, the cost to produce 5 is 25 GBP according to 'back in the days'. They are at lost with that logic. Even if we take into account that they earn say 3 GBP per Marine by the time they pay workers who build it, electric power consumed to build, raw materials, box and finally shipment cost how much money do they have per miniature? Not to mention other costs like keeping the machines and factory in working condition etc...

[@2SSSR2]

The real question should be: how much does it cost to produce a single miniature and to produce a box and to ship it? How much does it cost to produce paint, brushes, glue etc... Suddenly the prices makes a lot more sense.

[@Dianaranda123]

Watched this a bit and i find it rediclious indeed, i quit warhammer40k pretty much a few years ago, and now i ordered a big box of Infinity Icestorm, plus Infinity is alot more actually balanced and tactical and strategically sound then Warhammer, smaller squads and less miniatures on the table while there is more terrain though.

[@roguemind5061]

I've only started to collect Warhammer again. The last time I collected was like 19 years ago, but reading a lot of fantasy book (damn you G.R.R.Martin) I wanted to get into some battle games. I was thinking about this same question as well, when I realise how much I need to spend to build a decent army. If I was 13 again I wouldn't be able to afford this. Even with my current income the amount of money I've spent so far is incredible.

[@glendawe2597]

I'm looking to get into warhammer, but the prices of the miniatures are making me incredibly hesitant. I play Magic so I'm used to expensive hobbies, but still....

[@cruorangelussilicis]

Oh yes, I forgot you had a Titan. I was thinking if Forge World was for a different audience as they are so much more expensive. £50 for a Stormraven for example and £400 for a Thunderhawk for example. I suppose all hobbies have a cost to them and I suppose you can only buy the models you can afford and if you can't afford GW or FW, there are chepaer options from other companies. Good talking point

[@blackflame8893]

My Death Guard army cost less than $600 and it's between 2500 and 3000 points. And it's the new Death Guard stuff. The newer models are freakin worlds different from the old stuff. The detail and poses are so much better these days.

[@cailumgrantham-tibbitt8543]

well when I was 11 I used to buy the cheap 3 unit boxes for about £4. yeah the models were basic but money was hard to come by. when I did save up my magical pennies in order to go into GW I found that £10 in pound coins could get you fuck all of the more elaborate models and was the reason I stopped for about 5 years until I got a part time job

[@0dindt]

Just a bit of a rant, I am extremely new to WH40k. and i have been developing an interest to collect these figures (i live in the middle of nowhere so i cant exactly play with them.......) so i began my journey of looking at prices, went onto the games workshop site...Grey knights were the ones that caught my eye, prices were moderate but then, then i realized i havent changed the site to my currency. in AUD the Grey knights codex alone is $83. And 50 - 100$ for squads. well there was my extremely short lived hobby. cant believe how anyone from Australia is meant to deal with them prices

[@doomed2063]

Find any other miniature war game. There are so many great ones out there that are priced far for fairly and competitively. People really should stop supporting GW as their pricing practices have gotten to the point of absurdity, not to mention all the other shady BS they pull concerning copyright and fair use and online retailers and whatnot. GW is a shitty company that I wish would go under so they'd be forced to auction off their assets and maybe another company could land the IP and begin producing WH40k products at a much fairer price point .

[@vashratalyn6728]

I'm not sure who it IS for, but it sure as hell isn't for your run of the mill teenager. I spent my entire savings for the year and it got me the dark vengeance starter set and a the rule book/painting book set. (120$ American for Dark vengeance and 85$ for the books.) For those who aren't aware Dark vengeance gives you 6 chosen, an aspiring chaos lord, a Hellbrute, a squad of cultists, (it's supposed to be two but they're both half strength so it's more tactical to put them together.) and a special pseudo Khorn berserker character for Chaos, On the space Marines side you get a squad of marines with sergeant, company captain (or champion, it wasn't clear) a librarian, five termies, and three bikers. So from what I can gather from prices it's a decent value, but I can't afford to buy anything else 40K until the end of the year, so since I want to play decent priced games I have to ally Space marines and CSM. that goes as well as you can expect.

[@jeffreyvollmer3872]

I began this hobby in high school playing rogue trader. Between rogue trader and second edition, as a highshcool and college student, I put together 5 armies. Here we are much later and my houshold income is VERY nice.. My homes and cars are paid off. Though I play 40k, I havent bought a GW model in 15 years from any place other than Ebay. I have several thousands of dollars a month is disposable income and I cant bring myself to pay GW what there asking. Despite having bought several armies as a college student, today I wouldnt even contemplate buying a new amy from retail or GW mail order.

[@doomed2063]

I'm single and do fairly well and as a result I have a lot of disposable income as well and yet Ive never been able to justify spending what they ask for on their products. It's the principle. It's ridiculous and Id rather spend that money on other things that are priced more fairly and competitively who care about their customer base. Fuck Games Workshop.

[@hotduck101]

What really bugs me isn't the massive cost but the way there doesn't seem to be any structure to how they price their figures. For example, the recent dark elves release: 10 warriors cost £20 but 10 black guard cost £30. They are identically sized models in similar fixed poses, so why the difference in price? Also, the captain you show costs £18, the same as a whole box of 10 imperial guardsmen! Why is GW so inconsistent? The only answer I can see is that they are priced on how good they are in

[@frogulon8271]

The problem is, you're buying many models at a time, then not fully painting them before you buy more. You just gotta buy a kit, paint it up repeat. It is way better for money

[@PyromancerRift]

Dont count miniatures as a number but as a point price. If you buy a 200 point HQ it is normal is will cost as much as a tank. You dont buy plastic you buy power.

[@N3mdraz]

Sunshine Starcraft I understand your logic and i agree to a certain extent... The 200 point hq you are referring to used to be made of metal. So it felt heavy, was a bit more special and costed a bit more percentage wise compared to regular troops. There is just no way i'm gonna pay 18 euro for 1 plastic commander, when i used to pay 8-12 euro for a metal one. I know you will maybe start a argument about inflation, but i can tell you thats not the case. Games workshop has stockholders to please and thats why they invest not on the longterm, but are focusing on the shortterm profits.

[@Karosse]

so im watching this video now in 2018, and im wondering, I grew up loving 40k and I still keep up to date with the hobby through audiobooks and BL shorts, but I havent actually bought, painted and fielded an army since my all jump pack (scoring troops!) Blood Angels back in 5th edition. you know, back in the good old 'hey guys, space wolves hate psychers, so we are giving their new librarian a fun and fluffy spell. its called Jaws of the World Wolf. it does great things if your opponent is fielding an IG parking lot, Tau gunline, Tyranid MC list (trololo), any really expensive eternal warrior characters, or, I guess, any characters. I mean, yeah I suppose any characters. dont worry, your armour, toughness and wounds wont matter. because its removed from play! and we made a few changes to the regular Tactical Marine, just you know, for fluff reasons. they can now countercharge and get twice as many close combat attacks, for a few less points. we are calling them Grey Hunters! next up, Psybolt Razorbacks with 18 points of scoring humans hiding inside. And maybe an Inquisitor! Just the one.) okaaaay ~ writing that it appears I may have ended up ever so slightly saltier than I remember. rofl. anyway! lets see when that BA 5th ed codex dropped! because thats when I still actually played the hobby. and actually went out of my way to help found my own 25+ player gaming club. juuuuust so I could play more 40k every week.

[@brunneng38]

Warhammer is definitely a rich mans hobby. I got out in the 90's, though my hatred of the company lives on. I've moved on to Bolt Action. $30 for an armored vehicle. $30-40 for anywhere from 30 to 40 infantry figures. PLUS no one cares if you use figures from different companies. Great video!

[@jdsuelzle]

You can keep up this hobby and be thrifty with it as well. Ebay and Kajiji are great tools for finding deals on models. There are also all kinds of trade programs out there, Blue Table Painting's being one of the best. You might just have to put alittle more effort into the models you get to make them what you want them to be. I've been collecting for 8 years and this works great for me!

[@Webgobo]

If I buy stuff I always calculate how long I have to work for it. I earn good money maybe because I can think logicaly. Thats why I want come back to this Hobby. But I still love the Lore.

[@Halskitchen]

I think Warhammer 40,000 has always been aimed at men age 20-40+, and as for the price hikes, I think it comes from a combination of GW having a monopoly in this area of hobby, and more detail being added to the minis and so the cost of development is higher.

[@doomed2063]

Their minis are of no higher production value than their next closest competitor. Those days are long gone thanks to the serious advances in 3d modelling.

[@dante001ish]

I have been away from GW for a while now after the bitter taste of experiences trying to get hold of space hulk and have just gotten into it again though that's another story, I have purchased GW products from the earliest day's many of their miniatures and game sets and have watched prices increase compared to what you get today and yes they are expensive however everything has gone up in price and I find it strange that the many videos about this are from younger people who would not have paid for a pack of metal miniatures with a pound note, not coin and some change when frankly the quality is far superior and the models larger now than then.There is a price for continued evolution and expansion and although they have made mistakes and been slow to wake up to the 21st century and have also alienated old and young fans alike I say this...you can either love it or hate it though you always have the choice to not play it...but we all know that is heresy.

[@PlayUnpluggedTV]

This is something I try to push with my site. It's not anti-GW, but I definitely cheer on the little guy. I'm a huge proponent of the "indy" game.

[@masterofthelag8414]

£30 for 5 models... Ouch. I mean, it does depend where you get them from-there's a good local (not games workshop) store where I get quite a few of my models from-you can usually get 10-12 troops for around £20 but those are the basic ones. It is an expensive hobby though, you aren't wrong. And yeah, the commanders (in general) are ridiculous, I've got one commander (necron) and the only reason is because he came in one of those bundle boxes-i'd never bother getting one on their own at those sorts of prices.

[@thunderstreet5836]

The price has always kept me from getting in. I have been wanting to take up this hobby for years. It encompasses much more than a game. It would give me a creative project that takes me away from the computer screen and get lost in some quiet focus making art. Art that is my own. A battle game with heavy story elements, that is exactly my kind of game. I'd be in it, I think, if the plastic was half the cost it is now.

[@harbringerf9416]

what kind of knife is that and where did you buy it?

[@kishkoshparody]

For me.. I have Gotten into the hoby at only 4 months ago, I have spent a somewhat amount Now (Rule book Codex models paints Glue etc) Bare in mind my age is 21 coming up 22. Like you said in this video the hobby varies for ages of money as for teen's it is possibly pocket money etc. And in the current state of finance we live in nothing is cheap in these days a videoo game can be 50 - 60 Pound I remember when it was 30. So when I compare hobbies like for example Video game will last you possibly on average (30 hours if that depending ow much time you have on your hands) While when I buy a Pack of models like Termies I spend possibly 1 Hour Assemble, 5+ Hours Painting and then Actually playing the game and as I play the game it is free and as I have now got 2000 points I don't really buy many models so I spend not much here and there and its free from there on for me. Bare in mind this is only my opinion and what I see it boil down too is ALL Hobies have a nast price tag in this modern day as nothing is cheap and everything has a down side or plus side. I hope my comment Helps anyone or weighs in just as an opinion as possitive - :)

[@shanemcdowell3628]

I spent 120 USD for my Damocles Gulf Raven Guard kit. Haven't even painted them yet.

[@pantherace1000]

40k and fantacy are for people with money. and GW has raised the prices a little but are provideing more bitz and special stuffs in with the new releases (marines are now 40 USD and come with combie weapons and more stuff, i think its kinda worth the 4 dollar jumb) personaly i think $40 for a tank and AT MOST $30 for a squad of infantry (with most of the trimmings) a landraider should be the most expencive GW model one buys ( its a pretty big non apoc model)

[@gracefaithCHRISTscriptureGOD]

Only mugs or those who have money to waste but straight from GW. There are plenty off store's that sell be items at 20-25% discount. Look at Victrix , gripping beast, Perry miniatures, wargames Atlantic or warlord games PLASTICS they are far cheaper and the detail is equally good. Historically Wargames or any non GW si fi game is drop zone or dropfleet commander for example cheaper by far

[@pierrekircher4383]

it depends .. i enjoy painting a lot .. thats why im ok with gw/fw pricing - the prices gone up over the years .. YES but then again what product hasn't become more expensive - market dynamics . everyone could rant all day long .. but comparing 10 pounds 15 years ago with 10 pounds today (check food prices) wont do anyone any good and is my no means a fair comparison / the quality of the models has gone up .. there are more details .. and the company still survives in a niche industry which in itself isn't easy at all

[@Doctor__Wiki]

Here's my explanation as to why maybe so expensive to purchase Games Workshop items. I personally do not play any of the games workshop games but I believe that the perception has been skewed as to why prices increase. The vast perception is that as demand increases price should decrease, however the exact opposite is usually true. Now before you hop in and argue just listen to what I have to say and possibly even consider that it may be true. When you are the producer of a particular type of good it always costs money to make your products I am not familiar with whether or not Games workshop: has their own production facilities or not however I am familiar with the fact that when increased demand hits a production facility it also demands more cost due to increased hours in the manufacturing line, increased amount of pay for the employees to reach the demand dictated by the market and the increase of the costs involved with dispersing the product to the customer. I am sure that a lot of people out there can agree that what games workshop has is a very great product and because it's a great product people want to buy it because people want to buy it the demand has increased thus increasing the production cost to meet the demands. Prices will never go down they will only increase and the moment that you do begin to see a dramatic decrease in price from Games Workshop is the moment that the company begins to go out of business.

[@Doctor__Wiki]

To add to my comment is that I believe that Games Workshop feels they have a premium product and because it is a premium product they demand a premium price I have also heard that a lot of people stand by the Customer Service Games Workshop has no take into consideration some of the other companies you may have dealt with when it comes to customer service and I can assure you that some of them are severely lacking this is also another reason why a company has the means to charge more whether or not that is justified in a particular customer's eyes is up to that customer but rest assured that if a customer customers values lie congruent with the values of Games Workshop those particular customers are going to pay that price dictated by the company they purchase product from because price is typically never the reason a product is purchased and I will illustrate that with a very simple example. If you are shopping for pants and all they had were pants that were too large for you in the price range that you were willing to pay would you still buy them? The answer for some of you would be no. Take for example the clothes that you are wearing right now did you go to the store with the intention of only spending a particular amount of money to buy the pants that you are wearing in other words if the pants cost absolutely nothing but they did not fit would you purchase them? What examples serves to prove that prices of only one concern and that many other variables are considered when trading money for product.

[@Hawkeye40k]

I personally find that the warhammer/miniature wargamng hobby to be better value than many others, when I buy a box f tactical marines, which is £25 when I take into account the build time, painting time and then time I spend playing with my toys, it ends up being comparatively cheap. Furthermore your 6 models chosen are some of the most expensive for example a tactical squad is £25 for 10 models, the commander box is £14, if you also take into consideration of buying from online stockists

[@James00037]

When you said those items were 90 quid I just said WTF!

[@Marionettetc]

It's artificial inflation. Even when I started playing 40k (2004), the game was already for people with large disposable income. I haven't played since 2010, and I recently opened up some of my old armies - and checked out the new books and models. Everything in the shop is a flat 15-30% more expensive.

[@Andrew-yl7lm]

Yeah i see your point, on one hand i always think that as long as they're painted well at least you can resell them on ebay, the problem is that as models keep being remade the older models value decreases. i tend not to buy any blister pack single models, i prefer to just proxy\kitbash a new model into being because as you say, 18 quid is hilarious for 1 single model. a box of 10 dark eldar warriors is 18.50 and thats 2 entire troop choices for gods sake.

[@Sup3rSaiy3n]

+Stiffy Gigglesticks Totally agree. I'd also say sometimes older models may go up in value. People love the look of the older rhinos but aren't prepared to buy them from FW at £36 a go.