The Slow Death of Archetypes | Arknights Analysis & Critique

[@SUPAH_SUPAH_SUPAH]

Turns out, Flingers do have modules and I completely missed that. Which makes Wisadel being a flinger even more perplexing. Thought I found SOME reason, but no. JOIN THE DISCORD NOWWWW discord.gg/superincorporated prts-room is the AK channel Trying out something a bit new, very much inspired from Whitelight. A much more somber, script-focused video essay.

[@zball_6396]

Wisadel is a flinger because the designer needs her to do AOE off skill, since W is already an AOE sniper.

[@zball_6396]

& btw the archetype thing shall not really matter in the first place. Players always desire unique ops rather than archetype defined op but with large stats.

[@Bongyes]

Maybe you (or rather... we) got defining trait wrong and they actually never got broken? The trait is in actuality what is said on trait description. Nothing less, nothing more, the rest is a coincidence. For example swordmasters trait says nothing about offensive recovery. Never did. The defining trait is what says on trait description, which says "hits twice". Yes, this is consistent. Even not-sword-having-Tachanka hits twice despite being swordmasters with a gun hitting that passively aerial units (which no other swordmaster can do.). The fact they have offensive recovery is just coincidence. Flinger have other defining trait - "the funny splash effect". Their trait is to hit ground units once, then deal additional damage for 50% of base dmg value with a splash effect. This is true for both flingers - WisAdel and Rosmontis. Notice how passively BOTH cannot hit flying units (yes, WisAdel can hit flying units with skill active. The skill allowing you to hit different target is not new - for example Cutter can hit flying units with skill active) No, she cannot be a Deadeye, they have different trait - targeting lowest Def enemy nor Besieger because they target heaviest enemies first nor marksmen because they hit aerial enemies first and they wanted her to have regular targetting. I guess heavyshooter also had too small range for how they evnisioned her, as their trait does specify smaller range. Even Kal'tsit, as unusual the unit is, still follows the trait of being a medic. She cannot be wandering medic (no elemental healing) or therapist (no large area with lowered healing on edges when module is not present - and by large area it most likely means wide area) or multi-target medic (becauseshe heals one unit at the time) or summoner (because she doesnt passively deals arts dmg). Yes, Kal'tsit can heal anybody (except subclasses with traits that doesnt let them be healed by medics), it's just her passives makes her prioritize herself and Monst3r, so... she 99,9% of the time heals those two, while other passive lets her summon an unit that has insane stats, but thats just passives - nothing about trait is changed. There are tons of units who dip their toes on other archetypes since dawn of time (Eya is good example - her S2 basically lets her be semi-Aoe caster), its just lately they got more wild with it, while still being confined to trait rules. Basically we attributed traits to subclasses that those subclasses never had in the first place...

[@josephtheaurhwjfhsjnx2574]

​@@zball_6396Specter was an AOE guard and with her alter normal attacks didn't do AOE damsge anymore (besides S3)

[@kyarumomochi5146]

She is a flinger because flingers have the best off skill kit in the game and wisadel happens to beat rosmontis s3 by just off skill dps lone lmao

[@ringking7]

It feels like the Flinger archetype was designed specifically for Rosmontis - it makes sense she can't hit small fast units like drones as part of her 'fantasy' of dropping Rods from God. Some archetypes would have been better off left exclusive to the unit they where designed for.

[@cefrinaldi8060]

Not exactly, greyy alter manage to be a good 5* flinger. Its just that it felt like wisadel need to be in her own archaetype just like kaltsit.

[@Dadan-dan]

IIRC archetypes weren't a thing yet when Rosmontis came out, she was just another AOE Sniper that could double as a Defender if you are lucky. Sure, there was different types of units in every class (DP-on-kill, ST Sniper, etc.), but I feel like there was more freedom in design when it came to making units unique.

[@emmanuellonghino5846]

Wait wait, there are more flingers than the MH cats?! They are the only ones i use

[@Dadan-dan]

@@emmanuellonghino5846 Grayy Alter is the only other one AFAIK, and I always forget he is one instead of a different Caster archetype than his base 😅

[@rainzerdesu]

I'm not sure why people believe these rules about archetypes. Why not just view them broadly like a flinger is a sniper that summons 3 objects. The lore for Rosmontis is that she's got physics manipulation and telekinesis. So what is the rule that says she can't fling up? People invented that rule just because they decided to balance Rosmontis around not hitting air not that flingers can't. Same with the Degen complaint about auto recovery. What's the rule for swordmaster that says must be offensive recovery? Why can't swordmaster just be described as some melee swordsman that has skills that cc and does pbaoe

[@Pololol974]

Archetype..? I thought it was just an excuse to have an easier time finding them in the menus?

[@Dimaaasuu]

I couldn't agree more

[@DrSilvergun]

Don't Disagree that archetypes are 100% meaningless for 6* But I think the 2nd point is pure nonsense Broken operators realease with modules all the time Ling Degen Logos etc. If they gave a shit about it logos would have been a primal caster. Which he is cept he's actually good at it. It's not like they constantly make New archetypes for every new 6* either. W being a Flinger instead of a deadeye so she isn't released with module feels like ur starting with the conclusion and working back to justify it. Firewatch S2 aside deadeyes gimmick is being high single target damage. Flingers are AOE Makes more sense to give the nuclear launch codes to an AOE op Smaller Nitpick Offensive recovery aside Swordmasters much cooler gimmick is that they hit twice every strike so they do stupidly high damage against low DEF enemies. The reason none of them have an ATK up skill is that they will chop everything to pieces in 5 seconds with a half decent atk buff.

[@rainzerdesu]

Personally, I'm not sure why people are so caught up on archetype as some strict rule. It'd be like someone picking the barbarian subclass in DnD and getting upset that they equipped a crossbow

[@2265Hello]

@@rainzerdesuI don’t disagree that archetypes should allow some freedom but at some point going down that road it just becomes meaningless to have them and it actually effects balance ie W Alter. But in her case it’s more that she has no downsides to using her. Which in theory archetypes are supposed to reinforce. At least for Mylnar and Degen have some sort of downside even if they are small. For mylnar he does nothing off skill, for Degen you still gotta wait 30 sec for her skill to come back and she has sword master stats, meaning she needs other ops to reach her full potential (not that it matters most of the time).

[@rainzerdesu]

@@2265Hello Walter being broken I feel is independent of archetypes. But it's not like this was ever strictly enforced given that both Eyja and Mountain dispelled that on release day of archetypes. So to me, the "death" of archetypes in the player perceived strict definition wasn't even slow, it was literally instantaneous.

[@ArkeusWolf]

Also, Wiš'adel _did_ release with a module, didn't she? The entire point is moot.

[@ledsenkatt]

​@@ArkeusWolf I had to check and yeah, she has BOM-X which released in Lone Trail, in May for CN. Supah mentioned it in the pinned comment too

[@Ceombenium]

I think what contributed the most to Primal Caster downfalls is Delta modules. You know like when Logos, Ebenholz and Ifrit, whose archetypes have nothing to do with elemental damage, can now suddenly do elemental damage. So, when they release an archetype like Primal Caster, they have to remove their ability to deal elemental damage on their best skill and make them rely on others. Otherwise, they'd just be Core Casters with Delta modules!

[@oturan9728]

For now I feel only logos stomp on nymph with the module, the others one arn't as good as him to do what he does.

[@Moony-light_e]

I'd like to make a distinction on around the 7:10 mark. Nymph skill 3 doesn't remove her trait, because that isn't what the trait was refering to in the first place. Primal casters are a class that deals elemental damage, aka damage dealt to the actual enemy or pseudo true damage. They do also have ways to apply their unique elemental impairment with other skills, but their main skill to deal actual damage is reliant on someone else for application. Tldr, yostar translation forgot to make distinction between the damage dealt to the circle and the actual damage enemies take, so I can understand the confusion

[@kr4547]

You said it all thanks. Their job is to deal more damage during elemental breakout and Ritualists job is to break the bar. They were always going to have to be paired. If anything, Nymph is a 6 ⭐ that stays in her branch lol

[@Only_Ameen04]

In other words Primal Caster's trait actually does nothing because the elemental damage they dealt were based on their talent and skills

[@kyarumomochi5146]

In other words primal casters are NOT EVEN REMOTELY different than core casters lmao

[@DawnDewDew]

well i do believe that HG give us primal caster as a solid option to deal elemental dmg (kinda how in the early day, you choose caster as a primary source of arts dmg againts shielder enemies).

[@kyarumomochi5146]

@@DawnDewDew Its still bad as you are required to use a ritualist with them

[@kyarumomochi5146]

I think 6 stars are just their own Archtypes while 5 and 4 stars completely fit to the Archtype description. Basically all 6 stars after Skalter had been about making the 6 star ignore their archtype as much as possible lol

[@egorbessonow2121]

Not exactly, other 6 stars, like Fiammetta, Fartooth or Viviana, who didn't break their archetype, were released too. Do I need to remind what happened with them?

[@whitewall2253]

​@@egorbessonow2121 I still use Fia, she's a fun character.

[@anggarendy4129]

honestly it start early with surtr and eyja, they're not same with the rest of their archetype

[@kyarumomochi5146]

@@egorbessonow2121 And thats the problem. If you DONT break your archtype and be a archtype of your own then people just hardly will use you. Also i would argue that fiametta differa alot from other aoe snipers tbh

[@yammoto148]

@@egorbessonow2121 Fiametta is very different in her own Archetype compared to other AOE snipers who all specialize in nuking, she does her best work as a sustained dps. Fartooth takes her archetype to such an extreme can she even be considered the same at all to others in her archetype? And Viviana is nothing like other arts guards as she specializes in duelling elietes, something you would bring a Juggernaught, Musha or Duelist defender for, where as other arts guards are just there for enemies with higher defences, and then comparing that to Sutr who breaks her archetype on its back by hitting so hard she is useful against everything and you kind of see why all 6 stars are exempt from their archetype.

[@Grim-n-play]

Wis'adel is not only ignored her archetype problem but the entire Sniper class problem too Explained shortly she has infinite Invisibility or camo so range enemy can't attack her, Summoned three turrets to help her dps and attack air enemy, Has huge aoe damage at some wide range also can attack air enemy, and Ammo on skills so she doesnt waste her S3 It took the CN community a while to realise how this is a mistake that leading up to Arknights to just have an "instant win" in the corner Its just a matter of time where challenge event like CC become either really hard or stupidly easy cause of this effect thus making it either frustratingly unbeatable or super boring

[@zomfgroflmao1337]

The last CC#1 was already stupidly hard or stupidly easy, depending on if you used 1-3 key units or not (Ines).

[@Another_Dusk]

just don't pull her xd

[@ak_oneoneone]

​@@Another_DuskThing is i also want logos

[@victoryerz2030]

​@@ak_oneoneone Don't build her.

[@cho11150]

@@victoryerz2030bro do you even know how to think? This is a Tower defense and gacha game that actually fun to play because of its unique if it’s destroyed by its own unique then what the point to play it

[@byeguyssry]

Wis'adel has big range as well as AoE as well as the ability to hit air. Part of the problem with the death of archetypes is that characters can now do a ton of things, that it's more useful to call that by their class then any particular archetype

[@darkomihajlovski3135]

The fact supa didn't know flingers had modules shows why hg tends to give up and make op opretors so people will actually use the archetype same thing happened with ling and chen

[@CorvoA77ano]

Counterpoint, Restrictions are what make the game fun. Ray can nuke but she has drawbacks holding her back. Yeah Wisadel was a mistake, a massive one, because she has no restrictions, but I still believe that we'll continue getting interesting archetypes in the future, some good, some not so good. But restrictions are what makes the operators fun.

[@scaredycat3146]

While that's true, it only works if the payoff feels equally rewarding. Most players don't enjoy handicapping themselves for no reason. I.e. if the only defining trait of a class is it's restriction, then the class just sucks period. It should always be definined by an equally relevant strength as well.

[@absolutelypallets7378]

@@scaredycat3146 This is the whole problem with Duelist Defenders, they're a dreadnought guard with defense, but high DP cost already balances that, their was no need to destroy their SP gen too, Same with merchant specialists/arts guards, they have impressive attack skills, but their base stats are lackluster so besides Jay/Sutr they're rarely worth using. Flip side their is blast caster, which while not /good/ allow you to AOE arts multiple lanes so even outside of Ifrit they're fine.

[@mochalatte8362]

​@@absolutelypallets7378 True but I'd argue that merchants are neither good morning bad at damage, but are essentially jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none, since Lee has Dodge, DEF, and CC immunity (and push CC w/ S3), SwireAlt has burst damage w/ S3, sustained damage for S2, healing with S1, and basically 8 chances of immortality (30 with second module), heck, even Mr Nothing has something to offer such as self-regen and +1 block w/ S1, and (RNG) rrange of buffs in S2, though, like his name suggests, it's mediocre for a merchant and basically nothing lmao. However to do all of this, DP is obviously a must, especially with Lee and SwireAlt, since their talents are basically just a salary for a good niche usage. So yeah TL;DR merchants are pretty ok and balanced alright have a good night 👍

[@Another_Dusk]

Loopshoter would be awesome in 6* Alchemist too, with tons of buff and debuff

[@zball_6396]

Walter is powerful but actually severely gated behind RNG if you want to reach her full potential. It's not like she's really restriction free, just she's overpowered AS FOR NOW that you can ignore her RNG irregularities.

[@Emina_786]

yeah but ray is cute

[@chimera1381]

Cuter than W. I said it.

[@awanama4565]

real

[@lawgoonbergen2950]

way better than Walter's vomit-inducing design that makes my eyes hurt

[@ItsMeYuanMCPEE]

REAL

[@Asetsumi]

Understandable. Have a nice day.

[@Bongyes]

...I dunno, Caper and her looper archetype seems fun, but hard to say anything since shes the only one (at least on EN, dunno what is going on in CN). Time will tell. Also being annoyed about swordmaster losing their trait of offensive recovery, while true, is silly if you consider they lost way more defining years ago. You know. The trait of USING A SWORD.

[@iampotsataja]

Tachanka disagrees, his gun identifies as a sword

[@edgieststalker8141]

​@@iampotsataja "anything that kills your enemy could be considered a type of sword"

[@absolutelypallets7378]

Ch'en already has passive recovery and she's an OG; so it feels off every time it gets raised.

[@Bongyes]

@@absolutelypallets7378 oh yeah true and Ch'en is like first swordmasternin the game lol.

[@CruelestChris]

​@iampotsataja A gun is a delivery device for tiny swords.

[@foxwhite25]

Primal caster's trait have always been "Deals arts damage, can deal elemental damage", the elemental damage here refers to the half true damage that happens after burst, it never mention about dealing the damage that cause a burst, this is a common misconception caused by translation issue from yostar. The main point of primal caster is about dealing these true damage after someone burst the bar for them, they have weaker skill that burst by themselves, but generally the last skill require others to burst for them. Ritualist have the same trait in EN but not in CN, it actually refers to the damage that cause a burst, yostar just decide that they get the same translation. This confusion stems from the use of 元素损伤 and 元素伤害 for Elemental damage in the original Chinese texts; 损伤 and 伤害 had the same meaning of "damage" despite the different characters for different contexts. A more correct translation for the former would be "Elemental Impairment".

[@daBobJones]

I find this comment amusing… I mean, I think HG would find better results hiring an Arknights player. Is it just me or does anyone else think they hire different translators for each update? The consistency of their Engrish knows no bounds! xD

[@touchme4856]

I used to pull whoever was said to be the new meta, i remember zafang hyped Ling up so much that i spent literally everything i had to get her, i really regret is cause i use her once every 5 months in IS and thats basically it for me so i started just getting who i like and im happy with that

[@wildfire_]

Let’s not forget shirayuki doing arts damage and tomimi becoming a melee physical character

[@danylokhorenko7501]

HG unfortunately flops alot with new archetypes, the only new archetype that is seemingly good is Alchemist

[@GlebSeva]

They still brainfarted on it. The dude is 100% Supporter Arch Archetype, not a Specialist...

[@GlebSeva]

Tho i am just fucking around with semantics

[@Area_GnC]

@@crikeybaguette4564 Sure, but they can easily be defined as: Crushers with defense.

[@Only_Ameen04]

​@@Area_GnC You could also say it's Centurion that deal splash damage

[@Area_GnC]

@@Only_Ameen04 That works too, but Centurion's attack is not as high as Earthshakers.

[@NoneK4]

"Why roll Ray when you know Wiš'adel is coming?" Please Supah you don't understand, I need to come too.

[@r-gw2do]

Jessica Alter might have a cool kit and all and most people say that its barely useful since it can barely be used sometimes and ends up being a lane holder. I do agree a bit on this part, but sometimes i find other ways to make her kit useful and sometimes her kit actually comes in clutch. Although the entire point of her archetype is to have 3 block, more damage, more range but less defense and health. She does fulfill that task quite well. I think she fits well in her archetype. I might be wrong in some things since i have only played this game for a few months and not done with the game at all. I am just talking about my personal experience with my favorite defender and favorite character in general since i will never stop using her, even if i get mudrock or penance per example.

[@kosmosXcannon]

Jessica Alter technically has more than 3 block because of her summon that also has a taunt. Wish more units were released like her. I think she falls into fun and balanced, like Blemishine.

[@r-gw2do]

@@kosmosXcannon fr

[@Another_Dusk]

The module which reveal invisible ennemies will help a lot

[@JackAcegard]

WE'VEEEEE GOT ONLY ONE SKYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[@ThatPianoTuner]

I honestly think hypergryph creates new archetypes to later be powercrept, keeping the artificial quality, think about, before Ray came out, we had Coldshot, before Hoerder came out, we have Quartz, and before logos came out, we had warmy, I think hypergryph just keeps creating new archetypes to make an operator seem powerful in its own category, making it more desirable, even though they are just below average.

[@Another_Dusk]

Lappland being still revelant after 4 years :

[@clonedindividual6698]

Still looking for Dusk's justification of being a limited 6 star when a launch core caster does her job better. There's units well made and then there are units that get a module and end up JUST BARELY usable. I wish modules were made as individual buffs for unit on the edge of decline....but then there's Ling, Spalter etc.

[@nexpersonal5066]

@@clonedindividual6698 her justification is that she is the cool chinese unit, no matter her kit. She does technically outperform Eyja's S2M3 with her S1M3 when theres enough enemies tho

[@Another_Dusk]

@@nexpersonal5066 me who just M6 skill 1 and 2 💀

[@nexpersonal5066]

@@Another_Dusk Dusk is very cool, and not as bad as people make her out to be, I just dunno when Dusk S2 is every good tho, but her S1 is a juicer

[@giahuytran720]

6:47 I think Nymph is the rare moment where maybe Haimao at Hypergryph CEO room start to sit down and think “ should I make a archetypes that have flaw that fuck their own ass like Hunter/ Crusher again to balance the game? Hmmm…. How about… letting the other operators FUCK THEIR ASS INSTEAD?!. Damn im a genius” I really think Nymph is the outcome of HG desperately trying to balance the Nymph by making her rely heavily on Arturia but the majority of the playerbase which is the meta slave may didn’t think too much of that and just jump into the conclusion that Primal caster is dogshit. Yes I agree that it’s dogshit in some extent because imagine only being able to deal ooga booga dmg by combine with other operators especially when Walter exist lol. But you guys have to understand that HG. They are obviously trying to make new operators strong but not obviously like Walter-strong but strong because of the synergy they have with eachother

[@Giovansbilly]

@@giahuytran720 Their expectation was also skewed by Logos having a mod that lets him damage elemental bars

[@Xephyranth]

I'm fine with a 6* needing another unit to proc their abilities but the problem lies in with the options, Arturia is literally limited so if an average player didn't pull for her, Nymph goes from a child to practically a useless newborn on the battlefield

[@b1acksteve]

And then there's Warmy, like wtf was thier thinking with her. 6 months with no one to let her use her S2 and they put it on Ifrit who would most likely kill the mob before the burn element damage procs

[@Xephyranth]

@@b1acksteve true, and even if the burn does proc, the one tile she has on normal maps is just not good to support Warmy, I'd say Warmy isn't that bad design but bad timing and untapped potential

[@tehepicduckeh1409]

good video from the title honestly expected more diving into specific archetypes but this was well put together in a different way :o! nice :) idk whats up with the final 6 seconds of blackscreen though, rip

[@tibbiesthehawk]

💀💀💀 Walter literally released with a module that makes up like over a third of her comical damage lol

[@vincecomuna]

This will be "fixed" when lowlight releases the newly improved 7* rarity, and you'll be forced to pull another roster. kek

[@theonlyllen]

4:50 fr, thats why a few months back, i just chose not to pull on the new meta ops comin in favour of the interesting ops with interesting kits. Like an example i have is building coldshot to e2lvl69 and use her often or getting excited for angelina yesterday coz she's got funky little kit, *i was more excited for her than wisadel or anyother 6star ops coming*... and i got blessed when i pulled for the blue banner, ty hg

[@Sazandora635]

I hope they keep making more operators like Nymph and Tin Man that do things are *new* and unique as opposed to just giant powercreep blobs like W'isadel.

[@axios4702]

I must say. Getting W with my last saved 10 pull when I first started playing this game was a great moment and it's what hooked me to it. Seeing "Wisadel" now makes me feel stupid for ever pulling for W. Why did I waste tens of thousands of orundum for a character I nowadays barely ever use when she has another, more broken counter part on the way which just does what the other did but better?! At least chalter was a completely different class.

[@ggok]

Good video, I think your third point about modules seems to be the biggest reason why they ignore the archetype traits. Putting Nymph as an example was pretty wack tho, she's literally the one operator who (while being good) sticks true to her archetype. Primal Casters are an archetype that's meant to be babysat by Arturia. And despite being a 6 star, Nymph actually works like that. But yeah literally everyone seems to just ignore their traits now. Shu heals off-skill, Degenbrecher (although it was never strictly mentioned) gets SP automatically, Ela is basically a sniper, Logos is multi target just like his predecessor Eyja, and obviously Red Woman jump scare like you mentioned.

[@IMGUMII]

I think HG wrote themselves into this corner by making having archetypes in the first place. It should've just been base classes with each character having different skills or stats. And having leaving it at that.

[@lucasp-max343]

Exactly, I had played the game for 2 years and stopped after Mlynar released, which made me question the fun, yes, you can use old characters, but there is something magical about being able to win something difficult that everyone is trying, that is lost when we win something difficult that others just blew up with Mlynar. Anyway, I'm looking forward to endfield if it's challenging of course

[@kenquanta6761]

Archetype is the trait, damage type and range, that's it. That's all of it. Also Nymph is exactly what the archetype is

[@Truck-kun11]

- Creates an Archetype - The Archetype sucks - Creates a 6 Star that completely ignores the Archetype's limitations - Stonks. But seriously, I think they shot themselves in the foot by dividing the characters into so many sub-categories.

[@kosmosXcannon]

Not to mention making modules as a 1 fix be all to the archetype. Could have released modules to fix old units and bring them a bit more in line with the newer ones. Seems like the modules are automatically put in to make a broken unit more broken.

[@strawberryshower1175]

SUPAH: "this archetype SUCKS!" SUPAH when the operator of aforementioned archetype does not suck because possesses means to bypass the drawbacks: *Italian rage*

[@jhemarnueva5666]

05:11 wtf I didn't notice there was an Ifrit lane there during the event

[@redfoxakame]

Just started this game a few months ago, but I'm that guy who only spends 30 mins on this game every day, almost always putting things on auto while farming for 500 characters at once as I'm stuck at stages that one-shots my characters. I thought this archetype thing was to make things simple for people like me to understand. Now it's looking more and more complicated. I don't even know how to use most of those characters on screen. I just wanted things simple, like a defender blocking enemies or a medic healing. I might've been too late to the game cause there's tons of stuff going on now and I can't keep up. Oh well, I'm just gonna keep pulling for characters I like and just keep using Thorns in every stage. XD

[@DawnDewDew]

my friend, that used to be the case....... now every classes have their own subclasses and some classes can even do multitask other classes kekw

[@redfoxakame]

@@DawnDewDew lmao that's what I've been seeing! That's why I think this is all too complicated for me. Hope I can catch up one day lol

[@kosmosXcannon]

​@@DawnDewDewyeah Mountain is just a 2 block centurion with regen

[@DawnDewDew]

@@kosmosXcannon yea for some reason that guy turn off my brain whenever I bring him.

[@yori260]

SIR SUPPAH IM HERE TO MENTIONED THAT MY GUMMY IS STILL AT E0LVL1 . Have a nice day Love you ❤

[@maskedheretic9629]

I'm just here for the funny comments, your artistic writing skills, your voice, and the 30 seconds of emptiness at the end to remind methat I haven't joined member's yet.

[@jhonlhorbae9430]

Damn it! I thought its about the slow death of Arknights. Someday we'll get a video of that.

[@angelosgames9960]

Oh yeah btw in Wis'adel, its actually a bug that she can hit flying enemies in her S3 and they fix it so now she's basically the same as Rosmontis. But still she's still broken

[@darkomihajlovski3135]

That was a meme about hoyo calling a nerf to one of their characters a bug fix w is still the same

[@hngtuong]

You are drunk to nerf a limited one which metaslaves willing to throw 300 rolls for

[@Giovansbilly]

@@darkomihajlovski3135 and that character is Neuvilette, who's another broken limited

[@Hydroelectirc]

Babe wake up there's a new supah video

[@ninhtran6799]

People complain too much about weak operators lol, they don't care about having fun with weaker operators and instead play braindead units so of course HG gonna make a lot of them. And when the operators become wayyyy too powerful people start complain about powercrept so it's like a never ending paradox at this point

[@darkomihajlovski3135]

Don't forget complaining about how difficult the game is then complaining it's too easy when they make easier content

[@har8742]

😂

[@Another_Dusk]

Funny to say powercreep in a solo game tho

[@xenotyphon]

@ninhtran6799 It's not like powerful operators are unfun either, it's all about how one play with them as well.

[@MemoryDestiny]

I love Ray so much

[@mionmilla7300]

They've still got modules which are great upgrades that can possibly change how they're used in the game. So far there's nothing that gave a dramatic change but they could add them to buff the low usage six star operators.

[@LozerLudo]

tbf flingers do have the advantage of doing splash damage instead of single target compared to deadeyes so i guess thats something. Still dk why wisadel wasnt just a deadeye tho if they were gonna give her air targeting anyways,

[@JuniusLi]

As someone who plays on the HK server(by accident) right before I rolled for Typhon, Walter came out in CN. ...... IS4 just came out for us in June and now people in the EN are preparing for IS5......

[@MioTaeyeon]

Yeah bro, absolutely true.hahaha Also, damn hypergrph give us the real skip button..it's almost been 6yrs..lmao

[@Another_Dusk]

@@MioTaeyeon etooo... Melantha... Hai-haiiii~

[@mythicalskeleton1546]

1:18 skalter replacing 99% of medic usage and when medics are used its likely for a passive like ptil or nightingale having the ability to summon a cage to bait attacks or to tank certain gimmicks like undying snake's fire storms or that boss that scans the battlefield and attacks 5 targets

[@lucasboyles8530]

I feel like wisadel was put into flinger not because they didn't want to give her a module but because of the aoe she's known for explosives that's her whole thing and with a dead eye it's single target. By making her a flinger they make her a aoe dps dealer with explosive like attacks instead of just single target

[@AW-ht1ly]

The game was always going to head into this direction. Once a company has to figure out how to make more money, not how to make the game more fun, then the game itself will undergo a change for profitability. They know that their banners are what bring in the money, not the events, and certainly not the story.

[@Lenvyathan]

I would assume Wis'adel became a Flinger just because she happens to have summons (and maybe they wanted to make an actually usable Flinger?). Personally I quite liked her kit design before seeing the ridiculous damage of the summons... If all she had was that S3 and she couldn't do much off-skill (maybe having the summons vanish completely when the skill ends?), she would be perfect.

[@jixt3r]

Nice to see the old outro

[@doomdimention9787]

She's a flinger because bombs explode and she already had an AoE Sniper version.

[@Havok5704]

Wialter it really make me wonder why Splash Caster have weak dmg and SP cost so high . . . they are now 100% pointless not even their CC seems that great when you can just kill everything lol

[@edhikurniawan]

Archetype didn't exists when powercreep didn't happen. At least not as fast as today.

[@trulymrword]

Ok but from a flavor perspective, Wis'Adel being basically the fuck you I make my own rules unit is fitting as hell. Does it break the meta like cardboard yes, will future challenge content be Sniper hostile? Yes? Do I care? Not really, give me my Sniper Queen I as a W fan since day one will never not feel elated to see videos about this.

[@Muda9090]

Days since arknights rant - Zero Valid tho, preach

[@revie5489]

Powercreep is inevitable. At least Arknights Global have CN server as reference for future units while many other gacha games don't have such opportunity. Yeah Wisadel is powercreeping other Snipers but we can still use them together as a team of Sniperknights or etc. The last point about "We need to find a way to make our own fun" is true. With so many operators to mix and match for veteran players. Trying out different roles, archtypes, synergies to form different squad for your own entertainment is highly recommended.

[@wiktolego]

I like when they adding new archetypes and even they are useless they are kinda refreshing Also I read many bad comments, if some things dont feel like ,,Old Arknights,, then maybe quit? If you dont have fun or you bored just take a vacation

[@Itashafan]

Great video bro 😂

[@parlantesco4990]

They're gonna have to make broken units for every bad archetype like Walter for flinger and Hoederer for crusher altough Hoederer more than fixing the problems with the archetype he just has a fuck ton a health and a fuck ton of damage, ...like Walter. or Zuo le that seems like a very slept on unit and literally fixes every problem with musha operators or or Chen alter who is the only real option if you want a spreadshooter? like, everyother spreadshooter is kinda bad but its more like: why bring this unit when this other one does a fuckton more damage ?

[@januszpolak254]

I mean entire point of Hoederer archetype is having a lot of HP and damage. He don't stay away from core identity of Crusher. Ulpian on another hand literally have Gladiia that remove all Crusher weaknesses and make him overpowered.

[@Giovansbilly]

@@parlantesco4990 the Chalter mention is funny since she was basically Walter back during her release and there was a big drama about her

[@cefrinaldi8060]

I honestly thought you will shitting on new archaetype like alchemist or earthshaker. But turns out its just shitting on wisadel. Honestly, wisadel is an interesting case. People used to complain when flinger cant hit drones. But when flinger can using skill, people still complaining. Somehow i felt this video is just a drunk rambling.

[@januszpolak254]

It's not the problem she can hit drones but the fact she is so broken she turns entire IS5 into joke while being able to hit drones for no reason.

[@Zackhit]

It's not about flinger hitting drone. It's more about how brainded Walter is

[@blackhammer5035]

Archetypes weren’t originally a big thing and still aren’t. More than anything else, they provide targeting priority for ranged units. Also they have modules. Also Viviana is a relatively new (to EN) 6* who fills her archetype role (melee unit with arts damage) role reasonably well. Shu is a healing defender who blocks and heals (and has a busted skill, but that’s unrelated to archetype and arguably is perfect for the stalling role of a healing defender. Ela’s a collab unit. Yes, Wisadel is busted.

[@Ninakoru]

To me, between powercreep and non 6 stars being now useless crap except a very few exceptions, is the current problem. Gud video.

[@ilabb2276]

As far as I'm concerned, what does and does not make up an archetype has always been fanfiction at best. The Swordmaster trait says nothing about skills needing to be attack recovery. If it's not listed in the operator's in-game trait then it isn't a rule. The only one with any validity is Wis'adel's case hitting air.

[@julianvaldenebro4312]

Arknights most wanted KZbinr

[@electric1926]

I can roll for Ray because i have self respect and gonna skip garbage W alter Rounds of applause*

[@mr.heroic6634]

Never would I thought to see Azur Lane being mentioned in the case of modules and archetypes comparisons. Then again, never put a thought into retrofits other than being a nice upgrade for the shipgirls, in which those upgrades significantly make them better and more tanky. Even their skill(s)

[@einsUNDcolt]

6 stars that work well within their archetype and even elevate it without breaking it are universally shunned by the global community as unplayable trash. Only those that break it and are uber boss killers are cared about. Walter, Surtr, Mlynar, Ling. Vivi and Ray are great examples of this. "Don't bother with Ray. Just save for Walter." "Vivi is awful, don't get her."

[@chaoschild3090]

wait... WIS'ADEL IS A FLINGER OPERATOR?! WHAT DOES SHE THROW?! HER RESTRICTIONS DOWN TO THE DRAIN?! (if you're wondering why I only know about her being a flinger today... it's because EN can't read)

[@DawnDewDew]

dem i thought she was a deadeye operator ngl....

[@har8742]

I need an operator like Walter

[@wagz781]

tbf, there's only so many ways you can flay a man. I'm not surprised the gacha's effectively have a creative life-cycle of around 5-ish years before devs just kinda have to go "uh... fuck, we need a new character... I know, make the popular one! Make her tits bigger! Now make her better in every way and remove any downsides! *PERFECT* " And then the cycle just repeats for the next banner until people get tired of the game and the devs move on to their next project. What's likely happening is you're recognizing the end of the game's life-cycle more than anything. Might be wise to start looking at other games if you want to keep playing gachas.

[@Nebvla]

If you bully Jessicalter I will .. Cry.?

[@ikmalt9851]

havent watched the video but bet this video has thicc snek archetype. Impossible, no thicc snek

[@Luxo-tm9mp]

Always tought Arknights devs are bad devs with a lot of money and a good art director, so it doesnt matter how much you shit on the rest of the game they can keep going period

[@w58461]

another banger

[@kurobako6001]

Honestly I don't think dying archetypes is a bad thing, it actually gives the devs more freedom in designing new operators The game is 5 years old, and there are failed archetypes that are fundamentally flawed: crushers, deadeye, swordmaster, musha etc. New operators form these archetypes could actually be viable instead of "wow another new 6star deadeye this banner, time to skip it and wait for the next limited banner"

[@asdion]

Archetypes have been dead from day 1, the second "guardknights" became a thing archetypes became a mere suggestion game design wise. The same goes for Splash casters btw. The archetypes being "meaningless" is by design because they were never intended as a game design limitation as can be seen from most 6*s that were released. Archetypes are rather intended as a staggered buff/debuff system, which is why we got archetypal modules. now you can argue that aspect isn't working well enough but to pretend that silverash was ever intended to be "just a lord" or Eyja just a "core caster" is farcical

[@harryyang7928]

I don't disagree with the main topic but Jessica is like throne, what???

[@inarinokitsunehernandez2364]

Don't roll for ray? bruh, i was expecting warmy as the guarantee pull at 10th 😅 😢 but at first pull came the 6*

[@seas9388]

A bit out of topic, but I think no competition is also a problem. You can say it's a bit of a stretch, or big stretch if you will. But how tf a successfull tower defense gacha game raking millions each month still have no high quality clones in the market? Don't people want those sweet pieces of pie? I wouldn't call PtN a clone because the only similarity is that they're a tower defense with archetype too but can only deploy 5 units at most and you can move them freely after deployed. Then the Code Geass game that looks like it's made in 2009. The "good" one with pixel art only cater to gays and fujoshis with their 18+ all male, furry, and bara dudes units. Just imagine a 1:1 copy of Arknights that isn't shy with playing around with modules while sticking with archetype and keep looking to Arknights' mistakes so they won't. Now if a competition starts getting good, maybe HG can "learn" as well... Their stubbornness is amazing though, other than the Passenger's debacle back then, they never bend their knees to the CN players, which a giant like Hoyoverse won't ever dare to do.

[@ПавелВостоков-о3ч]

You expect we play this video on 1.5 speed?

[@SUPAH_SUPAH_SUPAH]

I am incomprehensible if I talk any faster. You can check the second "50 arknights facts" video to see what I sound like when I speak fast.

[@ПавелВостоков-о3ч]

@@SUPAH_SUPAH_SUPAH I saw almost all yours video, that's why I expect you to be incomprehensible.

[@kiel_doesntplay]

But here's my counter argument... Gummy is cute!

[@stef2337]

Yeah, she is but smh I broke after her on Shu and get Gnosis dupe

[@mythicalskeleton1546]

Azur Lane needs to drop more retrofits more often, not just every 6 months. Its not a pregnancy i dont want to wait so long to be disappointed

[@AMIRXCVII]

Hey SUPAH, how useful is Gummy's module upgrade exactly?

[@SUPAH_SUPAH_SUPAH]

Very. Makes her able to tank stuff like the chapter 10 module and makes her stun a 1/4 chance instead of a 1/5 chance.

[@AMIRXCVII]

@@SUPAH_SUPAH_SUPAH I'll trust you

[@merphul]

Wisadel is also an overreaction to the failure of Rosemontis. So much hype and lore power, only to have a very situational, and not particularly useful, 6*. I still have the white cat though.

[@oturan9728]

About your question "Why use Ray when Wisadel exist?" Idk maybe because she is a fun operator? Maybe because not everyone is a fan of a delete button and are full metaslave? Also while yeah her S3 allow her to ignore her archetype it's still fun to use and her 2 others skills are slept on and are also fun and more into what the archetype is. For Typhon I don't understand what you mean either what you mean that she ignore her archetype by using her S3 that something unique about her like Ulpianus being able to teleport and he is still a crusher.

[@wiganagames]

Abrupt ending as always kkkkk

[@kami761]

What archetypes? There is only one, DPS

[@TheTiagones]

Does this video have 30 extra seconds of absolutely nothing so the endcards don't cover the patreon supporters or is there some other reason?

[@SUPAH_SUPAH_SUPAH]

That's just a mistake on my end...

[@TheTiagones]

​@@SUPAH_SUPAH_SUPAH I see lol

[@SYCrash]

i maxed out my gumi before it was cool to

[@edhikurniawan]

Also I did say, I much prefer E3 at Arknights than Modules. Or retrofit in AL. Someone told me it would be worse... It will not. Because the mother of inspiration of Arknights, the Millenium war Aigis has done it before. Just don't do both, E3 and module, then it would be worse. What is bad about module? If I'm making a video, for clears content. I had to specify each operator module. But you can take them off when making the video? I just don't want to take them off for showing off. If i have tools, i use the tools. Also, it took considerable time to took them off then prepping them again for everyday use. Not to mention if that module has a significant impact on how the game should be played. Without specifiying the module, people will confused about which one which is being used. And they're making a list. They're not short to list. Also, it would be unintelligible for anyone who don't have the said module. As myself do not have all modules. E3, it is easier to tell since the character art is changed. The splash art and the chibi changed. Not to mention easier to make a harder difficulty content to match the E3 characters. Instead of you must use a certain characters to clear the content. Not to mention of the nature of events in Arknights where you can clear the shop lists by just doing the lower level over and over. The E3 doesn't have to have +100 addtional character level or something. Just +10 from the existing e2Lv90, as if e2lv100. But it changes to e3 when you're pass the 90 mark. The E3 just need to add 10 more level. Lv100 instead hanging on Lv90. +10 levels, more skills. New arts, new chibi. Practically better than e2Lv90 with modules. While in theory just about the same for strength comparison.

[@quitw18]

You can simply just put "mod1 lv3" and thats it, it's not that deep

[@edhikurniawan]

@@quitw18 Who TF understands mod1 lv3 ? There's no mod named MOD1. Their name is actually X Y Z. Also, you need to make the list. 10 operators, now you say. I'm trying to follow YOUR MOD1 convention. Ebenholz MOD1 lv3 Elysium MOD1 lv3 Fiammetta MOD2 lv3 Texas MOD1 lv2 (It is what i have) Dusk MOD1 lv1 (It is what i use) Angelina MOD2 lv3 Mudrock no MOD (I know she has mod, but i haven't installed on her yet) Mlynar no MOD (because he still don't have one at EN when i wrote this) Goldenglow MOD1 lv3 Suzuran MOD2 lv1 NOT THAT DEEP.

[@quitw18]

@@edhikurniawan Not that deep indeed, glad you got it

[@edhikurniawan]

@@quitw18 Your comprehension is really bad. I haven't writing the guide text, i havent saying the level of the operator. And you're keeping the narrative about DEEP. I said, it was tiresome to write all of those. And not everyone wants to read all of that. People like you really bad at reading.

[@quitw18]

@@edhikurniawan It's tiresome to write 2 words about te modules but you keep writing long ass paragraphs about a nothingburger, makes sense

[@NikkiTheViolist]

okay but what do i do after i max out gummy

[@SUPAH_SUPAH_SUPAH]

Goon to her feet in the summer skin

[@Dr.GojoKun]

Wisadel carried 😎

[@seirei_m]

max out your Ray

[@Ripperdingo69]

They will slowly move into factions (like abyssal hunters) basically certain group will work good with each other

[@kosmosXcannon]

That I like. Team synergy is always welcomed.

[@manyblock4192]

Only Abyssal hunter work tho, other factions quite Meh

[@sorenstarchaser]

damn