Super Mario's Invisible Difficulty Settings

[@Wsnewname]

I just like how by adding the Luigi guide to those games, Nintendo codified "have your brother beat it for you" as a strategy to their games.

[@pinochet3698]

I really like that method. When I was about 5, I would have my brother beat all the ghost houses for me in NSMB. In the Mario and Luigi series, I would beat the harder bosses for my little brother. Lots of give and take (mostly take for my little brother until a few years ago).

[@naattxxnaattxx7055]

The idea of a brother beating parts of the game for you fills me with nostalgia

[@Twisted_Code]

@@pinochet3698 Same! Except it was my dad on Super Mario World, and I was mostly having him help because re-clearing the ghost houses was the only repeatable way to save the game. I wonder at what point game developers realized "wait, why are we making them wait to save? It's not like they put another coin in their console to continue playing...". I did however consistently need his help to clear the third castle, the one in Vanilla Dome, because the room with the magikoopa at the start was just a bit too confusing for me.

[@seraphinhesse9834]

someone in the design team for sure said "you know how youre older brother always helps you beat the level when you cant do it..."

[@me2-684]

It proves luigi > mario

[@lancepate]

~2:00. Kirby. Give it to your kid or little sibling and they can float through the levels no problem. Give it to an experienced gamer and suddenly there's a bunch of secret paths, harder alternate routes. And there's never any real reward for it other that a stamp on the level select or a percentage going up. It all just exists to make an easy game for kids into something everyone can enjoy.

[@Vaquix000]

Kirby is an excellent series. Actually has badass threatening antagonists so they're "everyone" games. Mario is really just for kids because there is absolutely nothing to be taken seriously or threatened by in ANY of the games. The main threat is a turtle that goes "gwahaha!" since the mid 80's... the games are for 6 year olds.

[@lancepate]

@@Vaquix000 I'm not an edgy loser so hard disagree lmao

[@Superp2gamer]

Bowser does have his insane moments sometimes.​@@Vaquix000

[@JamesP7]

@@Vaquix000I’m a Kirby fan, but you being toxic is a massive L

[@angeldude101]

I'm pretty sure the reward is the *_carnage_* of tearing through everything in your path rather than just going around. Oh ya, and then there's post-game. The abridged versions of the story are usually slightly harder than the main story, and then the Arena... Star Allies replaced the Arena with the Ultimate Choice, which has both an explicit difficulty slider (which changes _much_ more than just stats), _and_ an implicit difficulty slider based on the party composition. Want easy mode? Use 4 of the incredibly broken Dream Friends. Masochist mode? Plain Kirby; no allies.

[@amateraceon5202]

I think we can all agree that the best difficulty setting in a Mario game is “You can now play as Luigi.”

[@memorableman3709]

Clearly, that’s the same as saying “Ultra baby easy mode has been unlocked”. Luigi is almighty.

[@memorableman3709]

@@EmceeJoseph Yeah, Luigi U was way harder. I was just joking lmao.

[@MadSwedishGamer]

I really like that they made Luigi able to run faster and jump higher, but is "slidier" and takes a bit longer to stop, as it makes him easier in some levels but harder in others.

[@lasjames7516]

and then turning off the gameboy every time i die on my final life

[@DeathnoteBB]

⁠@@memorableman3709I got Luigi U as a gift once and I feel bad because I *cannot* play it. They meant well but Luigi is a nightmare to control, and the games are hard enough for me already with Mario

[@NightFore]

What I like about most of these "difficulty settings" is that by using different levels, bonuses or whatever, you don't feel bad, instead it makes the game more fun and easier to explore. The game doesn't slap you in the face for being terrible, but instead rewards you for playing.

[@ShinHouou]

No, some of the games still - in their own way - shame you for playing on easy mode. Those bronze stars and level skips sit there to remind you that you didn't REALLY beat the level and thus don't get full credit.

[@jsrodman]

Very much disagree. Just let me pick and pay on easy without all the badgering.

[@nathansos8480]

Special world.

[@TearfulZorua]

​@@ShinHououthats the thing, you didn't legitimately complete those levels. You got to skip them and see the games neutral ending, but you still have the chance to go back and finish a level that you had trouble with after practicing. Its encouraging you to never give up, it doesnt degrade you but it does remind you, hey there's still more you can do. If you feel up to it. And the challenge extras aren't all that important, they are usually just bragging right and extra, more difficult, content. Well save for star coins, but with star coins you are incentivized to hold onto them until the end to unlock the star world, filled with difficult levels, or different touch screen aesthetics. Basically the game teaches the virtue of never giving up, as well as rewarding those that go above and beyond.

[@crusatyr1452]

8:38 I love how without any further explanation, this makes it sound like being Luigi is just inherently harder than being Mario.

[@MizunoKetsuban]

I mean, that's not an incorrect assessment

[@Danmarinja]

Mario 2 has Princess Toadstool as the easy option, implying she’s just better than Mario.

[@Jocobo]

its not easy being green

[@itsVDROID]

Have you ever played as Luigi? In a platformer the last thing you want is a slippery mf like Luigi, he is without a doubt harder, and requires more skill in every game you can play him in

[@MatildaHinanawi]

At the same time, it seems like Luigi is the one clearing more of the harder levels. He's maybe can't do as much as Mario, but he's more persistent!

Jan Misali just off screen having a stroke when GMTK declares he's played "every mainline Super Mario game"

[@guyspy21]

Apparently Mario Maker DS is a mainline game but not Mario Maker Wii U

[@qyxgames]

Context? What does Jan Misali have to do with Super Mario?

[@guyspy21]

@@qyxgames that's what GMTK seems to think

[@danieldavid3766]

@@qyxgamesHe made a video analyzing whether or not each Mario game counts as “mainline”, (including ones like Yoshi’s Island, Mario Run, Wario Land, Super Mario 64 DS) and may or may not have gone insane doing so.

[@qyxgames]

@@danieldavid3766 thanks!

[@Baal07]

I think that within the context of early mario games1 rewarding the player with lives doesn't generally make the game easier. They're designed like arcade games where playing well is intended to let you "play more". To a skilled player a bonus life is more a trophy than a real reduction in difficulty. And to a less skilled player those rewards are a way to let (and encourage) you learn and protect you from mistakes while you develop your skills.

[@0cellusDS]

14:55 "slightly unsettling" is putting it mildly - I remember being at 110 stars or something before seeing Cosmic Rosalina for the first time and it seriously scared me until I realized why she appeared. At that point, I was at the home stretch, super comfortable with the game and just cleaning up (not aware that there were 120 green stars in the postgame), so this character caught me completely by surprise at a point where I wasn't expecting new characters.

[@peterwhiteley2729]

Holy smokes it’s Ocellus!

[@archmagusofevil]

Same thing happened to me in 3D world. I had no clue that the invincible super tanooki suit existed until I had already completed the main game and started trying to master more complicated tricks.

[@laytonjr6601]

@@archmagusofevil This was my journey: "How nice of Nintendo to give you an invincibility power up if you can't beat the final boss" *plays some postgame* "Oh". The final boss being 2 stages and the flying wing only skipping one was harsh (but I really loved it)

[@guy7329]

She showed up for the first time... when I was doing Melty Monster Galaxy star 2 (the rock) I died so many times....

[@Vaquix000]

@@laytonjr6601 That's not nice. It's insulting. Giving an invincibility power up is more proof these games are just for kids. Hell, if I was a kid I would be pissed off - if I'm going to beat a boss I'm going to do it properly, what's the point in cheating? Where's the fun? They're making games too easy for kids now, they're never going to learn to get good if they do things like that.

[@pufthemajicdragon]

Congrats on turning 200! Right around 22 minutes you mention something that's a **real** problem in video game design: Game rewards (particularly character leveling) intrinsically makes the game *easier* to play as you progress, inverting the desired difficulty curve. It's a huge problem in RPGs and strategy games, where the longer you play the more powerful items and skills and abilities you collect that make the game easier to play. This ends up requiring the game designers to implement artificial difficulty to try and keep the games balanced. I play a lot of MechWarrior 5 and one of the best mods for the game (YAML) has introduced an "upgrades" feature. This feature locks you out of being able to drop heavier battlemechs until you buy the mech bay upgrades. You can't repair or refit certain items until you buy the repair bay upgrades. Other upgrades reduce the cost of repairs or reduce travel time. These upgrades end up having a positive feedback loop where the more upgrades you have the easier it is to play the game and get more upgrades until the game has become so easy that it's boring. I love the mod and the upgrades feature, but it inverts the difficulty curve - making the game far more difficult to play for new players or new games, but so easy that it becomes banal for late game experienced players. (MW5 can be pretty flexible with this because of its open world difficulty zone design, and because mods can increase late game difficulty to improve late game balance.) Dealing with that inverted difficulty curve requires very careful game design to ensure that each of those "upgrades" (or character levels or higher level items or spells or abilities) also opens up higher difficulty gameplay, while also keeping the escalating power levels from turning into an WoW-meme mess of stupendous nonsense. This inverted difficulty curve problem is especially prominent in games (such as Oblivion or Skyrim) that deal with it by leveling opponents alongside the player. Leveling up doesn't feel very meaningful because all of the same enemies have also leveled up with you. This inverted difficulty curve problem is worth its own video and I'd love to see you examine it in depth!

[@dissraps]

Sounds like you play a lot of trash RPGs if leveling up makes you overpowered. They literally solved this with the NES with increasingly leveled enemies that only get overpowered if YOU decide to waste your time and grind

[@pufthemajicdragon]

​@@dissraps Wow... um... Okay? So you didn't read what I wrote, did you? Because you literally just described exactly one of the methods I pointed out for how developers deal with the inverted difficulty curve caused by in-game reward systems. I also already mentioned why that method is problematic. So... thanks? I guess? For boosting my comment? Oh, I know what it is. You're probably a Final Fantasy fan, aren't you? That would explain it. The concept of "outlandishly ridiculous power level escalation" wouldn't have any meaning for you because you're used to every game having 20 bosses each of which are "World ending monsters" that immediately turn into casual random encounters once you've beaten them the first time. Oh! Or you just have never actually done any game dev! That's it! I get it now. Because you've never had to balance gameplay yourself. So you just assume that there's a difficulty curve template out there that "the NES" got right and everyone else just imports into their engine of choice and **poof** the game's magically balanced! God I wish that's how it worked. I dare you to GM a D&D campaign just for one night. Use a premade adventure path, even, that's already tuned and balanced for you. Try it :) it'll be fun! Then come back and tell us all how easy it is to balance the difficulty curve.

[@christopherknowles]

This video is made infinitely worse by the narrator showing his face on screen.

[@andrelanca2700]

The worst possible inverted difficulty balance is what Diablo took from 3 to immortal. You begin underleveled, start getting equipment, become stronger and wreck through hordes of enemies while you sleep until you can change difficulty mode from hard1 to hard2 and now you have the same equipment, but you can’t damage your enemies because they are now stronger and then you have to replay the game until you get overheated again. The problem is when you have to not only grind the game, but once you have grinded enough, you have to start over and grind again… it’s lame

[@krisiverse]

I could never beat Oblivion as a kid because of the level scaling system, because I would focus on non-combat skills like alchemy and all the enemies would end up way too strong for me to fight. It was a really nasty feedback loop

[@Mackinstyle]

Now that I have kids, I discovered this about Mario and Minecraft. Allow me to talk about Minecraft for a moment: it has the best invisible difficulty settings I've ever known. Just like with lego, my kids naturally reach for the pieces that they understand. When my oldest was 3, he would make dirt houses. Then he started adding windows. Then he made a basement with a ladder. Then some tunnels. Then added switches and buttons. Then added rail cars. Then began crafting things. Then discovered redstone, etc. He's had this close relationship iwth minecraft for years and it's never felt like he was too young or twoo old for it. And none of this required me deciding "you're ready for the next bit so I'll enable it, or get you to the next area, or buy the DLC." From the very start the game enabled ALL of this, but never skill checked with, "you MUST learn to use x, y, and z, to keep playing." This meant my son could advance to the "next level" whenever he was ready, while never feeling like the game was telling him he wasn't yet good enough. Every other game he plays for a while then walks away from suffers from the same issue: he gets to a point where he can't continue, so he loses interest.

[@DeathnoteBB]

As a kid I would play games I couldn’t play well, so I’d just stay in the beginning areas. Wind Waker, I spent SO long running around Outset Island because the Forsaken Fortress was too scary for me back then. I still remember it as “Forbidden Fortress” 😂

[@cassandrawelch7630]

cool :D

[@StarBeam500]

Hm. That's an interesting take on minecraft I haven't seen before. I guess that would be an invisible difficulty setting. However, I find it likely unintentional and more of a side effect of the game being an open sandbox with a lot of things to do and very little actual progression. Still, very cool, though.

[@Nova225]

@Mackinstyle out of curiosity, did you play on Peaceful/ Creative with him? My daughter loves the building but hates the monsters, so every world she makes is a peaceful/ creative mode so she doesn't have zombies and can build all the crazy stuff she wants.

[@SmokeyChipOatley]

There’s something so awesome and satisfying about watching a younger family member (my 4yo nephew in my case) actively work through an obstacle in a video game themselves. I always try to nudge him in the right direction instead of just doing it for him myself as I didn’t really get that when I was a kid. Growing up I would constantly underestimate my gaming and general problem solving ability so I avoided even attempting challenges I considered insurmountable or beyond my current ability, something I didn’t really get over until I was already a grown adult. It was such a game changer for me the moment I realized I was actually good enough to play, enjoy and complete games I previously thought were “too hard” for me. I don’t want my nephew or anyone else to ever feel like he doesn’t have all of the tools necessary to work through any challenge, virtual or in the real world. Great comment btw

[@EthicalAllele]

I loved that you included the section about encouraging players to attempt the more difficult routes. It would have been sufficient to just explain how the harder and easier "pipes" work, but you and the developers of Mario went above and beyond to show us why the difficult pipes matter and how they can provide more value to a player. The Miyamoto quote at the beginning of that section really spoke to my soul.

[@Twisted_Code]

I agree. Just as it's important not to baby the player, to provide other levels of challenge, it's also important not to let the player baby themselves, to give them aa reason to give it a shoot even if they're not sure

[@scragar]

I think the switch palaces in SMW were not just about making the game easier, there's a few places where they're part of the expected route, and some secrets require glitches to access without them. I think the game developers intended them to be more of a reward than a crutch. This is also evident that a few levels featuring them need to be beaten to unlock the relevant switch palace, if they were just to make the game easier they wouldn't be useful in a level you need to beat to unlock the palace, you're clearly already able to beat that level. But giving a cape power up before a secret exit that requires flying under the exit is a pretty good reward for exploring.

[@orangemonks894]

You can’t say smw anymore with wonder around

[@mechinodermata]

@@orangemonks894nuh uh. wonder is smbw, world is smw, and wii is nsmbw

[@IRanOutOfPhrases]

Yeah, I think the video sort of acknowledges it. Like, as a player, we want to hit the switches because its part of being a completionist. But it comes with the unfortunate side effect of making the rest of the game easier as a result. What you say is true, that it was meant to be a reward. But that reward does mean making some levels significantly easier with no way to undo it. So when purely talking about difficulty modes, I think it's accurate to point this 'flaw' out (and how it was addressed in a later game.)

[@mcgritty8842]

Waaaaaaaa 😢

[@frizzyrascal1493]

@@orangemonks894My man, this makes no sense.

[@Artista_Frustrado]

- i love that Iwata quote when you contrast it with Mario Maker's Luigi assist showing up 2 deaths in, Luigi I'm thankful but I'm nowhere near stuck yet, chill Lil' bro - also the Easy mode characters are a great idea, except in Mario U deluxe the 4th player was forced to pick either Toadette or Nabbit

[@Kriae]

Note that you can't 100% New Super Mario Bros Wii nor Super Mario 3D Land if you ever see (not even use) a Super Guide Block for the former or an Assist Block for the latter. You'll still be able to have five stars on your save file but they won't be sparkling. New Super Mario Bros 2 and U aren't as punishing. In the former you can restore the sparkles by beating a level you triggered the assist in by yourself, and in the latter by simply not using it (which means that you don't have to reset your game if you trigger it).

[@James2210]

That explains way too many hours I put into 3D Land trying to 100% it...

[@MarcusFigueras]

that's crazy that they even do that. "yeah dude. you sucked too much. you're not a REAL gamer."

[@papersonic9941]

What's annoying is that in 3D Land you can get the skip from the Mystery Houses. I got one, and used it not knowing it would remove the sparkling stars.

[@kumomo_yosei]

in NSMB2, if a Invicibility Super Leaf block spawns, the sparking stars won't appear too, even if you don't grab the Leaf

[@astralbirthvoid02]

Having the 5 stars is still 100%, the sparkling doesn't matter in it, it just shows that you were so good you never saw the help.

[@CheesecakeMilitia]

I think the Star Coin "added difficulty" concept from New Super Mario Bros actually dates back to the Dragon Coins in Super Mario World. In the original SNES release, collecting all 5 nets a 1-up. But in the GBA release, Super Mario Advance 2, all 5 Dragon Coins are tracked in the stage progress screen just like Star Coins. I wonder if this was a limitation of save RAM storage, since Yoshi's Island (like original Banjo Kazooie) saves a "score" instead of individual collectables found per stage. It's actually pretty interesting that 3D collectathon Mario ended up influencing 2D Mario in such a way. Congrats on the 200th episode, Mark!

[@bland9876]

I like how in the newer games if you collect the star coin you collected a star coin although if you die it's kind of weird they don't reset but in world when you collect the star coin it doesn't do anything for you unless you collect all five of them and you have to beat the level without dying including Not using the checkpoint though you can actually cross the checkpoint. Problem is if you cross the checkpoint and then die you restarted the checkpoint and sometimes you can't go back for the other star coins which is really annoying that you lose them You think it would save your progress up to that spot including the coins you collected but I guess not.

[@nekoimouto4639]

minimum for a 100 point score to be saved is 7 bits of memory (124 max value). Using bitwise flags you can track 7 *unique* things in those 7 bits (each bit is a flag). Either way you probably need a whole 8bit address space to store which of the 5 coins the player collected. They probably used the score system because it was more versatile and easier to tally up and display.

[@spectre0014]

Agreed. Those coins were introduced in super mario world.

[@MetalSmith]

when I heard that, I was upset that he didn't notice dragon coins in Super Mario World.

[@bregowine]

Gotta love the deep dives whenever you cover Nintendo’s mastery in the craft. We have been quite fortunate to enjoy that consistent quality out of such a developer in our time

[@Avendesora]

Here's hoping the archaic business side of the company doesn't destroy them in the future

[@bregowine]

@@Avendesora Here’s hoping they manage to improve on those aspects, without compromising their core stance on fun, quality, gameplay-focused experiences

[@hododod246]

@@Avendesora Yeah they are terrible company for trying to make profit and protecting their ips so that they can stay in the business and keep making games.

[@vSoulreaver]

@@hododod246How did you fit that big ass boot in your Throat?

[@arttukettunen5757]

I've heard the work conditions at Nintendo are relatively great, and very few people leave the jobs/get fired. However this doesn't apply to people developing pokemon at Game Freak

[@SuspiciousTemmie]

I honestly wish more games did difficulty like Celeste does it. There’s an assist mode that lets you toggle settings ranging from simply pausing when you dash to make sure you go the right direction, to making you literally invincible. The amount and way you make the game easier is completely up to you. But on the flip side, you can get into the optional challenges immediately. There are strawberries and B-side, and even the winged golden strawberry if you want an extreme challenge - all in just the first level. The challenges also have a huge range in difficulty, ranging from regular strawberries that are just barely harder than usual gameplay, to the golden strawberries and Farewell (an optional level past the main story) that can take even the best players hours upon hours to do for the first time. The incredibly customizable difficulty settings make it fun for everyone, whether you enjoy an _extremely_ hard challenge or aren't too experienced with games and are mainly just there for the story.

[@AndrewBlechinger]

I remember dying over 1000 times in 3A. I just could not do that last stretch. And when I had trouble understanding how the bubbles and wind worked in 4A, I finally said "screw it" and went full assist. By the time I got to 6A, I was wondering how the HELL you were supposed to do some sections at all, let alone without the assistance. In one room, I had to focus on the fact a winged strawberry was present to inform my approach. "Okay, it flies away when I dash. That means it must be possible to reach that area without using that button" and I was eventually able to get there.

[@joshcantype]

Something I noticed about Odyssey when watching differently skilled players is that the same level can have multiple "main paths". If a level presents a goal with a large gap between you and the goal, a skilled player will work out that they can combine all of the different jumps with precise timing to get over the gap and get to the goal in record time. A less skilled player might not realise and explore around the level and find a much easier route to the goal. The same puzzle has multiple difficulty levels in disguise that invisibly gets tailoured to how familiar you are with the game.

[@DeathnoteBB]

I appreciated that about it! For the life of me I cannot do all the fancy jump combos I see people do online. I can do enough to get around though. Thankfully the game does not force you to git gud or go home

[@vincentgagnon1607]

Yes! This philosophy is even applied to the bosses. Each one has faster starts, like throwing bombs back at Harriette or jumping on the hats of the other bunnies when they are in them. It really lets better players use their skills and gives them something to do instead of simply waiting for the boss to be vulnerable again. It also solves the problem that the beginning of the game is way too easy for some players by letting them choose the difficulty of each challenge, like by attempting difficult jumps with Cappy to skip a part of the level. I love this game so much!

[@stefansunnick4690]

Yeah I think thats one of the best examples why Odyssey works for just like everyone. I played Mario since the early 90's and a lot of later mario games - especially 2D games - didnt catch me anymore. Odyssey on the other hand ist probably close to perfect in giving everyone a lot to enjoy.

[@TrueLadyEvilChan]

Pikmin 4 took a similar approach, with multiple answers to the same problem.

[@peterk822]

This reminds me a lot of Sonic's high-middle-low paths, where getting to and staying on the high path requires more skill/memorization & finishes the level more quickly while maintaining "flow".

[@mekelius]

You need to be carefull with this stuff. I've heard that if you repeat the words "all mainline mario games" three times, a certain youtuber will kick your door down and demand to know what exactly do you think you mean by that.

[@SirMrTreflip]

Lmao which youtuber?

[@m3m3y_]

@@SirMrTreflipjan Misali

[@tobyneff9793]

@@m3m3y_Jan is gonna send him a survey if he isn’t careful

[@emre_ez]

If you shout "Bowsers Fury is a mainline mario game" at 3 am 3 times jan misali will arrive at your doorstep and demand to know if you mean the game by itself, or the game and the other game its bundled with or what else

[@chrism6880]

If you say "Nintendo" 3 times in a monetized video, they send a lawyer to kick down your door

[@fatyoshi696]

Personally, my favorite part about super mario wonder was that, despite the game being really easy, you can completely break the game apart if you have the skills for it. Infinite wall jumps with the floaty jump badge and bubble flower flight can allow you to basically go wherever you want if you can pull them off consistently, and while it isn't always useful by being faster or letting you get to unintended areas it's rewarding simply by allowing you to test yourself. I have the theory that these things were left in intentionally, despite nintendo being known for patching out skill-based exploits like one sided wall jumps or midair shell jumps, which is a huge step in the right direction for them

[@TheMistermastermario]

it's definitely intentional, there are some places where you can only get to with badges and they just put a few coins as a nod to the player.

[@mjc0961]

"I have the theory that these things were left in intentionally" Nah it's unintentional. It's always unintentional. If Nintendo sees any of that stuff in a speedrun, they'll patch it out.

[@donutguy804]

I like ultrakill's difficulty system, where the selected difficulty isnt just some stat changes, but behavior changes as well

[@goranisacson2502]

I'm always a fan of when games do this and really make new difficulties way more than just "extra numbers". Makes you feel good to actually explore each difficulty setting instead of just have the same but harder.

[@Kafaldsbylur]

There was one flaw in the Mario 3D Land assist system that bugged me a lot. The star sparkle (or I think it was an extra star that didn't show up on the screen; either way) punishment didn't apply when you used the assist mode, but when it showed up. Since I liked to fully complete a level before finishing it, I would often deliberately jump in a pit if I missed a coin and couldn't go back to it, and some times, I had to retry often enough that the assist box showed up. So by trying to show a certain sort of expertise (100%ing levels in the first go through), I was punished as though I needed assistance.

[@WillKeaton]

I had the exact same thing happen to me. I assumed that if I didn't touch the power up, it wouldn't matter. Nope. Just being offered the power up is enough to permanently alter the save file, and you have no way of knowing this until after you've cleared the level, by which point the damage is done. If there had been a way to go back and play a level again to clear it "properly", that would be one thing, but there wasn't, and five deaths in a level can make the shiny stars at the end dim forever with no warning. Fortunately, this punishment got removed from later games.

[@bobthebuilder9509]

This flaw existed since its inception in NSMB Wii, IIRC- the second that Super Block appears, you’re permalocked out of an “achievement” even if you opt not to call upon Luigi…

[@ShinAntonio]

I ran into this too and it annoyed me to no end. The game is pretty damn easy except for a few levels so it felt unfair I lost out on the sparkling stars just because they OFFERED assistance.

[@doug2434]

Not to mention that if you even *see* the assist block you lose the sparkling stars. Not only are you basically punished for being bad at a particular section of the game, the game doesn't have the courtesy to tell you. I ended up 100%ing 3D Land a second time to get my deserved 5 sparkly stars.

[@MaxOakland]

Oh yeah, that's a big flaw

[@YoshisaurUnderscore]

Congratulations on 10 years and 200 episodes! That's absolutely wild; your stuff is so high-quality. I hope the next year brings another slew of fantastic GMTK videos.

[@xKumei]

Mark Rosewater had an article about a similar thing for magic the gathering, he used the term lenticular game design. Since depending on the way you were viewing a card, at a beginner or advanced level, changed your understanding of the card. But the key is to still understand the card in either case, or to grok it. So what you do is make a card with a simple to understand first reading, but the way it interacts with the system includes things that an advanced play can opt in to. Like imagine a spell that make one of your minions disappear for a turn, and the next turn it comes back plus a card from your graveyard. A new player can go "Oh, it goes down to the underworld and saves them, nice!" and an advanced player can go, "This could be really good with cards that have effects trigger when they enter play." Basically, the card's effect scales with how much information you know about the game and its applications.

[@silent_reaper999]

Thou Mark still won't allow for viable reprints for standard or modern mtg

[@armogohma2]

​@@silent_reaper999What on earth are you talking about? Reprints for standard? Those sets are already still in print. Or are you demanding Tarmogoyf and other overpowered cards in standard? Cause game balance is a thing. Weird complaint.

[@paulakroy2635]

I was seeing Ben brode talk about something kinda similar for marvel snap

[@silent_reaper999]

Why snap in particular 😅​@@paulakroy2635

[@FG-418]

Congrats on the 200th! One thing this channel always makes me think about when discussing difficulty is the punishment/reward. I like how the latest Mario rewards good players with extra challenge, and assist less skilled player with support. Many games punishes failure with more difficulty, and success with rewards making the game easier. To me this is very backwards. For example games that will keep your money/objects where you died, and now you need to go track back again on a difficult section, with often harder difficulty since you are missing key objects, with the added stress of risking losing your stuff. It can become very frustrating when your skill level is below a certain level and being punished with even more difficulty than required for a skilled player.

[@rubyamateurtactician4354]

The Grumps recently referred to Yoshi and Nabbit in Wonder as "little brother mode." Which is both a perfect way to describe that and incredibly amusing to me because I'M the one who needs the help. My little brother is the one who has beaten the game while I tag along trying not to die

[@DeathnoteBB]

It sucks that those two are my favorite characters 😅 I wanna play the “real” way but I love Yoshi and Nabbit

[@cptntwinkletoes]

​@@DeathnoteBBSame! Yoshi is my favourite and I didn't get to play as him once.

[@ArchibaldClumpy]

The thing that's kind of annoying is that the back of the box says it has co-op whether it has actual co-op or just kind of a little brother mode to keep a kid busy. They're definitely not the same thing.

[@IRanOutOfPhrases]

@@ArchibaldClumpy it seems to have actual co-op mode though. There are other characters to choose from that take damage just as Mario does. You don't have to pick the "little-bro" character if you don't want.

[@youtuber6193]

⁠@@ArchibaldClumpyMario Wonder does have a proper co-op mode. Either player can pick any character they want. Having played with my 5 year old son recently, he could choose Yoshi or Nabbit for invincibility and once he found his feet or got confident he was happy being Luigi or Toad.

[@purrspctiv]

15:56 the White Tanuki suit also appears in 3D World!

[@CarelessFoolFallsFlat]

I can't understate how much of a welcome addition the Badges are to Super Mario Bros. Wonder. Using them feels great and they've been a big help in getting me through the Stages and clearing all those extra challenges. Congratulations on 200 videos!

[@hitpstudio]

Kind of building on what you're saying about preset, selectable difficulty and invisible difficulty settings... Last year we released our first game on Steam: a shoot 'em up / STG / shmup called Schildmaid MX. We didn't make a game in this genre because 2D shooting games are easy to make (making a good one actually isn't easy at all and the best shmups are complex bits of design and programming work in a way that isn't always clear to observe by the average onlooker), but because we genuinely love these types of games. The challenge was: a relatively successful shmup has an almost built in audience of hardcore players that are looking for the next game to challenge them... but we also wanted our game to avoid the brick wall difficulty that typifies the genre and be more welcoming to newcomers, while not betraying that audience. So we decided to cut the content of our game, consisting of a large set of stages that gradually increase in diffiiculty, up in various game modes of varying challenge levels. So if you pick the easiest mode, it's not "baby difficulty" but its very own mode with its very own set of stages and other quirks and characteristics that make it a somewhat different experience from the other, harder game modes, which all also offer their own, individual experiences. This even makes the easiest mode interesting for veteran shmup players as it gives them the breathing room to get to grips with the very specific enemy bullet absorbing mechanics of our game and understand what it is exactly that we are asking from them and how it differs from the shmups they are used to. Aditionally, save for one mode that is a 10 minute continuous, uninterrupted gauntlet, each mode has an optional harder route that is only accessible when the player meets certain, more challenging conditions. Then, layered on top of everything, we have incorporated an arcade game staple: a invisible difficulty slider that increases when the player makes progress without losing lives, to ensure constant pushback and friction, and drops just as fast when a player makes regular mistakes and loses lives along the way. We like to think that we made a game that caters to a large variety of player skill levels and encourages and motivates players to keep pushing to get better and try the harder modes, without diminishing their accomplishments in the easier modes. And it was at least recognised by PC Gamer journalist Will Freeman who wrote a recommendation article on our game in the magazine focused on how Schildmaid MX reframes difficulty: twitter.com/HitPStudio/status/1682117719745855492

[@Arrowstotle]

Fantastic video! I got my nephew Mario Wonder for Christmas and it was fascinating to watch someone who has never played Mario start to learn and how the game caters to newer players. Great breakdown!

[@danielrhouck]

2:05 “Every single mainline entry” [jan Misali voice] So, which games did you play?

[@BulbasaurRepresent]

1:29 "Which is why in more than 30 mainline super mario games" Jan Misali is rolling in their grave right now (except they aren't dead)

[@KevinJDildonik]

The count is 18* (depending on how you count, so you can argue any number you want depending on your criteria).

[@zym6687]

his grave

[@mistermetenor1]

@@zym6687 Hi! Jan Misali uses he and they pronouns, hopes this helps! :)

[@zym6687]

@@mistermetenor1 Hi! His is the genitive form of he, hope this helps! (:

[@Kriae]

@@zym6687 I wonder why anybody would complain about the usage of gender-neutral pronouns... I would suggest going outside more often.

[@BasicallyBaconSandvichIV]

Admit it. This video was just an excuse to play a bunch of Mario.

[@broshi1752]

Defining “difficulty” has always intrigued me, as there are so many different ways to measure difficulty. Really cool analysis! I’ve always had fun making my own challenges. And keeping extra challenges as side content is very clever.

[@KhushalBadhan]

17:25 you missed, in 1985 mario, in first stage, you can enter the pipe, collect coins and appear at almost end of the stage. Or you can skip the pipe and get 1 up and have to dodge enemies and holes.

[@ViIvaNunner]

i feel like mario wonders badges are a really fun way to do difficulty - if youre struggling you can use some of the badges out to help like the bounce off the bottom of the screen badge or the parachute cap; but theyre both also good for skilled players who can use them well. if you want to just be more medium difficulty you can use more quality of life badges like coin vacuum or just some of the more gimmicky less useful but still fun badges like the extra run speed or grapple vine badges; and if you want a real challenge you can use the three expert badges - i played a majority of the game with jet run and it felt awesome and really hard and i think thats an awesome thing to have as a bonus challenge in a mario game its not even like going for the easier badges feels like an easy mode because they change the way you play and for the most part are just genuinely fun to use even if it is easier

[@THernane]

And then Nintedo flags this video to offer the highest challenge to any Nintendo fan: The Copyright Strike!

[@Eflaene]

Recently played through the beginning of Mario Wonder with friends, and one of them had a lot of trouble wall jumping because she rarely ever played platformers at all beforehand. It made me think back just a bit on this whole thing, and it's kinda refreshing.

[@BIOSHZRD]

I’ve always thought Kirby’s float was the most brilliant invisible difficulty setting. In theory it trivializes the entire game, in practice due to how the float reduces your speed, newer players will only use it to avoid whatever they’re uncomfortable with, which should gradually decrease as they’re occasionally forced to get closer to the levels hazards. Experienced players see the float as a challenge, as they try to get to the end as fast as they can, using it as little as they can get away with. And due to being a dynamic element everyone inbetween could use it to the degree they see fit. The games repeatedly seem to be encouraging you to go faster. It seems they realized the potential back in Super Star Ultra, where the game timed every mode, had you race against DDD, and even let you play as a new character designed to go as fast as possible. But this is reverberated pretty consistently throughout the games with the game often sneaking little races for items into secret areas, and giving medals for good level times. I’d say the failure to include it in any meaningful capacity was one of the reasons that Star Allies is regarded as boring and forgettable by most Kirby veterans at the very least. There was a lot wrong with that game, it’s kinda hard to believe they actually shipped it.

[@Yirggzmb]

For what it's worth, HAL has said they intentionally toned the difficulty of Star Allies back. Whether people liked it or not it's a separate thing, but it was a thing they did on purpose. Their goal was a celebration of all the past 2d games and they wanted literally anyone to be able to finish it. The difficulty is in the arena and post game Heroes in Another Dimension mode. The game was what they intended it to be and that's why they shipped it.

[@BIOSHZRD]

@@Yirggzmb I mean that’s interesting to know but if that’s their explanation it sounds like they have a very poor understanding of how their own franchise works. Most Kirby games can be beat by literally anyone, the float lets you avoid skip past everything, so neutering everything does nothing for newer players, and only detracts from the experience for everyone else. The most egregious comparison is likely the secret challenges you can only reach by being attentive have been used to be things like speed checks that you needed you to think about the level terrain, or puzzles that had you choose which ropes to cut in order to get an item. Sometimes there would be a chest in the background, but you needed to see that, and not destroy a box in the foreground to get it. The only things locked were optional collectibles, but they kept veterans engaged and helped build up newer players to become better and one day get on the level of those veterans. Kirby took the time to gently build the literacy of beginners, while allowing veterans to express their familiarity. Now we have Star Allies which, and I kid you not this is an actual “puzzle” in the late game, gives you an ice ability, and a sword ability, and a sign that shows you that if you combine the ice with the blade you can get a frozen sword, and then puts a collectible behind a chain that’s on fire. The game does these stupid ability matches through the whole game where they tell you what to do, then you do it. No figuring it out, no allowing the player to stumble and discover what’s wrong themselves, or evolution of a concept that build from previous understandings, no allowing the player to do their thing. Just tell them what to do, give them a shiny, and move on. The main campaign of Star Allies is designed for preschoolers. The difficulty curve is a flatline. The main campaign of other Kirby games is for everyone, as in actually everyone, preschoolers included. It’s not a celebration of Kirby it’s a spit in the face to all the evolution the games have gone through in a journey to bring beginners up to the level of veterans while also appeasing both. You can’t just shove the actual game into the back end. Even if you could the most charitable interpretation of Heroes in Another Dimension would be “Short and Sweet” and a more accurate one would be “the first third of an actual Kirby game plus a buggy mess at the end.” The most charitable version of The Ultimate Choice would be “the arena but worse.” Or to put it in more words “like The Arena, but we didn’t want this additional challenge for experienced players to move you out of your comfort zone or anything, so you can’t lose your ability, no need to change strategies or roll with the punches in order to save a good run, and if you feel like you need to get better to get over a challenge feel free to drop the difficulty down a notch instead. There are 10 and the maximum is far too difficult for a reasonable person, so we know that there’s no option that seems feasible right now that has any meaning, which should hopefully kill your desire to improve.” The whole game just feels like what would happen if the franchise was handed off to a new developer who could grasp the basic framework, but not the meat that made that framework into something exceptional.

[@C_Arson]

@@BIOSHZRD Even as a big fan of Kirby Star Allies as a whole, I have to agree that the way it handles difficulty in the main story (i.e. more shallow than necessary for veterans) could've been a hell of a lot better. That being said, I didn't have any issues with how the Ultimate Choice was handled. Losing copy abilities and being forced to switch was rarely a concern in other arenas in my experience (outside of Sectonia's final fight in Triple Deluxe, what with the numerous pits for your dropped ability stars to fall into), so the fact that you couldn't lose one in the ultimate choice barely even registered to me. If anything, the fact that the difficulty ceiling could go arguably higher than other Kirby arenas made me like it more than those other arenas. I also don't understand how having lower difficulty options would kill a newer player's desire to improve. The lower difficulties have a lot of bosses missing, so I would think many players would then be motivated to try the higher difficulties so they can actually fight every boss.

[@andreworders7305]

5:43 those green stars are relatively mandatory in 3D world, you need quite a lot of them to open the final boss

[@TheBlackSeraph]

Replayed 3D World recently and while I was ahead for the first few worlds, by the time I got to the last of the regular worlds I was replaying levels for stars. I was already trying to get as many as I could so I wouldn't have to grind to unlock Rosalina post game, so I was surprised that I was about five short to face off against King Kitty Koopa.

[@onatgz]

they should just put a poison swamp in the next mario game and call it a day. with dragons. and wolves. and dragons riding wolves.

[@brodieorr5393]

the old school sonic games definitely had a similar idea of difficulty levels built into the level design. If you keep your speed as long as you can, you'll likely stay at the top level, make a mistake and you'll drop down a level

[@Jeffeffery9]

My first thought when he showed the pipe graphic was "knuckles chaotix". the level design is literally always as you describe

[@bland9876]

​@@Jeffeffery9knuckles chaotic?

[@MichaelHeide]

The best use of the phrase "take the L" I have ever seen.

[@jonathanwilson7949]

Congrats on reaching 200 episodes!! Your videos are so rewatchable and I love putting them on when I wanna learn about my favourite games or just feel like delving deeper into what makes them tick :)

[@GMTK]

Thank you!

[@jonathanwilson7949]

@@GMTK You're welcome!

[@F1reP0wer]

Just wanted to point out that New Super Mario Bros DS doesn't contain any additional level, unlike you stated at 8:50 . Unless you count the secret challenge mode as an additional world. It's a fun video none the less. I just now start to think that most Mario games aren't as easy as they might look, and this video explains very well what you might've missed. Thank you for pointing out those little things I haven't noticed about the game character I grew up playing the most.

[@hypanusamericanus9058]

NSMB does have the alternate levels accessible by collecting Star Coins, but I digress. I too love dissecting the games of my childhood and their magic.

[@chaselowell4567]

This really reminds me of how hidetaka Miyazaki is committed to not implementing difficulty modes but rather naturally adding features that can make the game easier while fitting perfectly in the context of the actual game

[@Artista_Frustrado]

and then he just nerfed all of them except for the Parry & the Guts from Berserk sword 🤣🤣

[@chaselowell4567]

He netted like rivers of blood and madness for pvp purposes. Bro r you ok?

[@cleverman383]

@@chaselowell4567 Yes, PVP is a huge issue with Souls games. It interferes with what would be best design for a single player experience because everything needs to be balanced for the PVP aspect of the game. If it had no PVP, it could have overpowered weapons and underpowered weapons and it would function well as invisible difficulty settings.

[@loreleiloriestone9179]

This reminds me of kid icarus uprising's difficulty system. You can bet hearts on your ability to beat a level on a certain level of difficulty. If you die, you lose some of those hearts, and the difficulty drops a bit. You can also spend hearts to have a super low difficulty, but there's no return. It's really cool, and it encouraged me to play at higher difficulty levels. Add in the intensity gate system, and it was really cool.

[@bland9876]

You sound like you describing Smash Bros. That mode were at the very end you have to beat Master hand.

[@loreleiloriestone9179]

@@bland9876 ah, I wouldn't know. I'm much more familiar with kiu, lol

[@bland9876]

@@loreleiloriestone9179 how are you not familiar with Smash Bros?

[@loreleiloriestone9179]

@@bland9876 I'm aware of it as a concept, but since I don't like fighting games, I've never played it or watched anyone play it. So, I've heard of it, but I don't understand the difficulty system.

[@bland9876]

@@loreleiloriestone9179 🤯how do you mention Kid Icarus uprising and then have never played Smash Bros? Also your definition of fighting game has to be super loose to include Smash Bros. I mean if you even look at any footage of Mortal Kombat, Street fighter, or Tekken you would see a huge difference. At least it's not as dumb as calling Dynasty Warriors a fighting game. I'm not kidding they actually do. Also if you have friends would you even do? Mario Kart? Mario Kart has power ups and the physics are kind of weird and you don't even have a proper gas button like you would in say Forza Motorsport. So people consider it different just like they do with Smash.

[@stevenmathews9355]

Thank you for 200 videos Mark! This is by far my favorite KZbin channel. I love game design, and though I haven’t officially made a game yet (hopefully one day), I do often use your stuff when I GM at my weekly D&D night. Here's to many more years and more great game design insights!

[@avena7506]

In nsmbw the sound of collecting the final star coin is just so perfect considering how much extra work getting all three is, and the fact that the final star coin while not always the hardest is usually by far the most climactic, good example of that are levels like 8-7 and 7-6, often requiring you to stare death in the face and come back alive. It's so unnecessary but so much fun for anyone with the skills to go for them, without actually making the levels any harder.

[@Brixster]

22:22 Another thing about hiding more difficult challenges as a reward for completing challenges is that, similarly to how assists don't show up unless the game is confident you are struggling and need some help, expert challenges won't appear or become available until the player can demonstrate their skill and prove that they're capable of taking on the more difficult levels. This way, the difficulty won't overwhelm less skilled players and make them feel like they haven't truly completed the game, since they won't even see the more difficult challenges. This is a key part of what makes Mario games more approachable and less intimidating to new players.

[@matthewlozy1140]

Interesting take on "Easy Mode" for some of the easter eggs in the early Mario games like SMB1. Being able to skip worlds by finding the warp zone definitely makes the game easier, but it's also not something a beginner player would likely find. I always saw those as easter eggs rather than taking the easy mode route.

[@coreyhaynes7951]

Happy 200th episode mate! Congrats!

[@LucasStraub]

I think the first instance of "Star Coins" was actually the Dragon Coins from Super Mario World. Which grants you 1 extra life after collecting all 5 on the level. Later on Super Mario World: Super Mario Advance 2, it was rewared with a sort of game+ experience after collecting all coins in all levels

[@djukor]

Kirby games are some of the easiest games by Nintendo. But nearly all of them are quite challenging and feel like a completely different game if you chose to not use copy abilities and only Kirbis core abilities. Most bosses in fact are designed around the idea you can beat them wo having a copy ability. But then again the games dont give you any rewards for doing so.

[@gameman250]

I think with Forgotten Land there's at least one boss fight (if not more) that has an optional challenge to win without copy abilities. Yeah, the instances of rewards for stuff like that are few and far between, especially when the player decides to take on that challenge without provocation (i.e. no copy abilities because you can, or speedrunning when there's no in-game incentive behind it).

[@danielleanderson6371]

@@gameman250 Forgotten Land also does something really nice with the copy ability upgrades: you can still use the weaker versions.

[@tinyetoile5503]

I think the simplest way I've seen it pointed out to me is: in Kirby, you can just fly over most challenges to clear them easily, or you can take the ground route for more difficulty.

[@cgk1276]

But see that’s the problem with any game that relies on creating difficulty through self imposed restrictions: playing as basic Kirby isn’t very fun, the copy abilities are a huge selling point. It’s like how badges in Mario Wonder break the game but not using them feels like you’re missing out on a big part of the experience.

[@BagOfMagicFood]

Forgotten Land also lets you change the actual diffculty setting mid-game and even reminds you that you can!

[@Alloveck]

22:00 Say what you will, but if you ask me, making the game easier is the absolute best and most motivating reward for showing skill and completing difficult challenges. In any game. Earning my way out of the "top pipe," or far preferably, upgrading my options for managing the top pipe, is what makes exploration and optional challenges (like finding the Switch Palaces in Mario World) worth it to me. Reducing the effective difficulty level by going above and beyond isn't a nasty negative feedback loop, it's the system correctly incentivizing effort and rewarding your increased skill.

[@0cellusDS]

20:52 - I agree with hiding the assist modes until players need then. But then what happened in Mario Maker 2? I'd say I am quite good at platformers, yet I still remember the freaking campaign with Luigi chiming in after each death. "Hey bro, if you're having trouble with a course, why don't you git gud?" And before someone points this out: Yes, I am aware that this has been patched after release.

[@jfb-]

i thought smm2's "call luigi" option would be like the "luigi shows you how to do the level" feature in other games; but it's just a level skip

[@NuiYabuko]

​@@jfb- How would they do that with user generated content? The game could replay how the level maker played, but what stands in the way for them to stand there for minutes before they do anything?

[@jfb-]

@@NuiYabuko the feature I'm refering to only exists in story mode

[@AuroraBoBora]

One of my fav parts about Odyssey is that it doesn't wait till the end to present challenges. A lot of the more basic movement sections can be skipped with more advanced movement and it makes replaying the game a lot more satisfying when you pull those off

[@fernando98322]

Huge props for mentioning SMB Deluxe, probably the only game where getting a high score is an optional level objective

[@FranMG]

5:10 in Super Mario World you have Dragon Coins which are practically the same

[@tomweather8887]

This is why Nintendo have continued to be successful. They're always focused on the players and the player experience. Gameplay first.

[@metalclawsteelheart]

10:05 this is wrong, the challenge version was planned to be the sequel, and Nintendo realised it would be too hard for Western audiences. So they slapped together a "doki-doki panic!" Rip-off, while releasing the harder version to Eastern audiences, and later on western audiences as a challenge, as part of the all-stars bundle.

[@d4shka330]

Yoo 200th video? Thats crazy man keep up the grind

[@Mr_Spaghetti]

Did anyone else assume Mark Brown was like a distinguished 45+ year old with salt and pepper hair before seeing him? Had no idea he’d look that young

[@Yuusou.]

Great to see 200 episodes reached as a milestone. What hurt me a bit, was seeing Nntendo in a few instances instead of Nintendo. It seems like an error from one quote that was carried over to different quotes. Other than that, it's a great overview and depth, I haven't expected.

[@cleverman383]

Vowels cost extra when paying for transcripts.

[@raphaelfp]

Marvelous video. I love how subtle Nintendo can be setting this sort of stuff which can be obvious to many experienced players but the real quality test is perceiving it when it's not actually showing up. Your channel is always amazing. Once again, greetings from Brazil.

[@paper_cut9457]

Excellent video, like the previous 199 times ! another take on difficulty is how it's done in the thief trilogy, where "more difficult" just means "more objectives": this naturally leads to more exploration, planning and immersion. also, you can change it every time you begin a mission.

[@actually_yali]

The thumbnail for this video is really good. Full of interesting details, indicating a level of quality, yet still clean and readable. Great work, whoever made that 💯

[@skeletorthebest7204]

I keep getting distracted by the music loops that keep getting cut short until the very end of the explanation. It sounds off.

[@ExeloMinish]

I like to call the problem described as "proving your skill makes the game easier" the Piece of Heart problem, because Zelda has a similar issue. Pieces of heart are the most common reward for accomplishing sidequests and finding secrets, which means that the reward for proving that you are good at the game... is an item that lets you get hit more often, making it fundamentally pointless if you're already good enough to get secrets without it. Watching the heart gauge getting longer and longer until you have two nice rows of hearts is satisfying, but still.

[@ConcavePgons]

This was also an issue in the Definitive Edition of the first Hyrule Warriors: getting an A rank gave you a Piece of Heart, but in turn made getting future A ranks easier since it was determined by a percentage of your health. It wasn't an issue in the original Wii U/3DS versions: an A rank was determined by avoiding taking a fixed amount of damage (which didn't scale with health).

[@anon_y_mousse]

I'd love to see you do a video on how you could apply these same concepts to an RPG. I can imagine that it'll largely depend on the type of gameplay chosen and the story line for that matter, but I'm definitely going to have to think about this.

[@Paul-to1nb]

Here's some ideas. Grinding is the big one, fight more battles, game gets easier. Xenoblade even lets you lower your level to add challenge back (cause it's so easy to overlevel). Adding extra challenges to a battle: - FFX if you do enough damage you get overkill - trying to do as much damage as you can do in a short amount of time (FFXVI shows damage during stagger) (star rating a battle based on how long it was) - Star Ocean 4 builds a board of bonuses as you kill enemies in certain ways but breaks when you take a crit hit, - a lot of modern open-world games have almost randomly generated challenges like kill using certain ability or without getting hit. Legends Arceus Pokedex is my favorite example - FF7 hyper status makes you take more damage but fill limit break more - Obviously postgame dungeons/bosses RPGs usually add a ton of mechanics to make games easier: - Summons in FF (slow but powerful) - Multiple progression systems so if you don't understand one it doesn't hinder you too much - Hidden chests give you better items (rewarding exploration) - Open world lets you go elsewhere and build up before trying again (Elden Ring) Progression systems that make players choose between growing or using what they have are fun: - FF9 equip this to learn an ability even though it's not gonna help you in battle. But if you struggle, change to something that helps you. - Job systems - level up a new job vs use a job I have a lot of abilities in. - Ratchet and Clank's weapons max out and then you need to use new ones if you want to level them up RPGS often suffer from positive feedback loops - aka good players get more rewards => even eaiser. Bad players get less rewards => even harder. So, thought and care needs to be put in to make sure people stay in their flow channels. One idea: instead of just giving more XP/money to skilled players, give something that makes them change how they play (eg. equipment that's high-risk/high-reward), cosmetics / achievements.

[@anon_y_mousse]

@@Paul-to1nb Load balancing is definitely a problem in RPG's. Like with FFT you can only use two jobs per character, but once you get the monk job class you're a walking tank, and once you get calculator you can nearly take out every enemy in one turn. They tried to somewhat Nerf calculator by only giving you four properties to target and four divisors, but they didn't even try with monks. It's why monkulator is the most overpowered job setup that you can have. The only real inhibition they placed is that the higher your levels, the more powerful the enemies you fight in battle, but even that they didn't get right because there are several level degenerator traps that allow you to really beef up your characters. The problem I'm having, is that I don't really know how I'd do it any better and still make it fun to play.

[@reillywalker195]

While it's not an RPG, you might take some inspiration from _Super Metroid_ with its fight against Phantoon. By the time you fight Phantoon in a normal playthrough, you have access to missiles, super missiles, and all but one beam type. Super missiles do the most damage to Phantoon of available weapons, but hitting him with one will temporarily put him into an enraged state in which he's invulnerable and attacks you with walls of fire. If you found the Charge Beam in Brinstar and know how to use it defensively, you can use it to avoid damage from his fire attacks in his enraged state, but if you didn't find the Charge Beam or don't know how to use it defensively, you're better off using ordinary missiles instead of super missiles and accepting a more drawn-out fight. In an RPG, you might achieve something similar by building in the potential for riskier strategies that require deep knowledge of one's enemy and battle mechanics that can pay off greatly if done correctly but that punish players who do it poorly. In that case, players would generally stick to safer, more reliable strategies unless they have the knowledge and confidence to pull off something more daring.

[@anon_y_mousse]

@@reillywalker195 Ah, like the Ruby or Emerald Weapons in FF7. Certain attacks would anger them to where they might use a laser beam attack that wipes out your whole party or just kicks you out of the battle. Instead of it being super difficult and requiring a strategy guide, I could scatter clues that hint at strengths and weaknesses for bosses that you need to fight. Maybe even have methods of skipping them outright until you're at a level where you're ready to take them on, but ultimately you would need to because of an item they would have. I suppose that's also like the Zelda series too, at least what I've heard of them since the only one I've played thus far is Link's Awakening because I've got it for the Game Boy, but I've seen enough videos on the others to have seen a similar mechanic in them.

[@wallyhackenslacker]

9:31 "the most 90's level names imaginable", something tells me Mark needs to play more doom maps made by John Romero.

[@lasercraft32]

I wish they had better rewards than 1-ups... Extra lives are extremely pointless rewards when you're already skilled enough to not die regularly.

[@KairuHakubi]

when I was a little kid, EVERYPLACE had super mario bros. It was at daycares, waiting rooms, everywhere. I could barely beat a level back then, at most I might have gotten partway into world 2, or used the warp zone then died instantly It never once occurred to me "This game should change to be easier for me." it is just... the way things are.

[@chrisd6287]

2:20 What are the 2 64 games in the stack?

[@SuperMarioT]

As a guy who's grown up w/ Mario for basically 20 years of his life thus far & 100%-ed the vast majority of his games, especially the mainline ones, this video really speaks to me on a deeper level. I adore clearing Mario games as thoroughly as possible and plenty mainline games are some of the best designed platformers the genre & video game industry have to offer. But the collectibles and late-game levels, challenges, grabbing every single one, are another challenge Mario games offer while also having the vast majority of them being designed and hidden based around the levels they reside in. They're usually crafted with the level design in mind in most cases, at least for the 3D games, Mario Wonder, and earlier New Super Mario Bros. titles. Interestingly, I think the Blue Coins are a noteworthy example. They are infamous in their execution but I'm totally in the minority when I say I usually try to go after all 240 coins whenever I replay Sunshine these days. Of course, not every blue coin's hidden or their location's implied or alluded to well, but that does add to the challenge overall of beating Super Mario Sunshine. Damn near every coin is hidden with the level design in mind. And Completionist mindset or field isn't everyone's cup of tea with video games, it does lend to the challenge and difficulty curve some want more Mario games to have. And I feel like that's why for me, I'm usually fine with most of the campaign being pretty chill. The collectibles throughout add a little more spice to the easy nature Mario games have nd the special worlds, postgame levels, true final levels & gauntlets do make for tougher challenges that scale with the rest of the game, all the while still having those collectibles to make them tougher. That's another layer of magic that Mario games have fostered over the years, on top of the magic of how wacky, whimsical, large, intricate and bursting with dozens of creative ideas in most mainline games, that makes Mario titles an event personally. They really do feel like fantastic gateways for newcomers eager to experience Mario's bread & butter, but also respectful challenges to longtime veterans who get Mario more to a finer level and experience what specific title has to offer all the way in a way that truly does feel like both a test but also a fun little playground that just tests and enhances your universal skill at these Mario platformers. Playing Galaxy so much growing up alongside Sunshine & 64, now those games are so easy for me to plow through and when Odyssey dropped, I never really struggled much even in the later, harder challenges because of the experience in previous titles. That also extends to the 2D titles. This is such an interesting topic in general for Mario lovers like me, so this might coax a video out of me to talk about, but you definitely outlined the difficulty Mario games house incredibly eloquently. A ton of people talk about how easy Mario games are, and there is some truth to that, but the lens are usually seen or fully understood halfway imo.

[@lars8174]

The challenges in nsmbu is the best and most difficult content i've come across in any Mario game. Grinding for the gold medals in everything was really hard and took me hours. I was dissapointed they hadn't brought something similar to wonder

[@ZachBora]

"Star coins formally introduced in New Super Mario Bros. on DS" but what about dragon coins in Super Mario World? That came out before and is also optional.

[@rudranshjoshi8142]

Love the 200th video milestone. Your work is always excellent and top notch💖💖

[@Tarofel]

12:10 cant help but point out with that background footage that sunshine is (sadly) one of the only 3d mario games that has a large amount of required stars. you have to get the first 7 shines in each world (barring glitches and one somewhat possibly intended skippable shine). it's an aspect that really holds the game back to me despite my love for it mechanically and in area design.

[@MiiNameIsJohn]

I know this channel usually goes into intentional design, but this video makes me wonder about player set difficulty, such as the Nuzlockes in pokemon, an entirely fan crafted, yet popular difficulty option

[@sircyborg]

Yoshi's Island in one of the most extreme examples of this. It's one of the easiest games I know of, but when you try to get all melons and stars it becomes a completely different BS of a nightmare. Great stuff.

[@sockatume]

The nuanced way that cooperative play interacts with the extra challenges in Wonder is particularly impressive. My spouse and I can be playing the same game, on the same screen, at the same time, with dynamically different difficulty, completely seamlessly. It elevates the co-op experience even compared to 3D World and NSMBWii, and it makes the awkward attempts at skill level balancing in online cooperative shooters and RPG look hopelessly crude.

[@TornadoBob]

9:55 lol I imidetly knew it was the lost levels

[@joshuah.4496]

Congrats on 200 videos!! Love to see you guys still finding such great topics to talk about!

[@rafaelluciano5596]

The interweaving pipes metaphor is interesting when considering how literal this becomes with how Sonic games tend to handle difficulty. They tend to have paths that weave in and out of themselves based on height, so a skilled player is generally on a higher, faster, but more difficult path. As you struggle you generally drop down to a lower physical stage that's easier to manage but nets a slower completion time.

[@Dizzula]

Happy 200th episode mate!

[@Mahaveez]

When I was a little kid in the NES days, Princess Toadstool absolutely made SMB2 approachable to me. I've moved long past the point where I worry about difficulty in most any Mario game, but I never forgot where it all began.

[@dier7144]

As somebody working on a game GMTK has been incredibly helpful for me. It is truly surprising what you can learn from other game even if they are in a completely different genre. As an example your video on Jusant and climbing in that game inspired me to add certain mechanics to one of the playables in my realism based semi-Gorey survival game.

[@VTRcomics]

In games like Super Mario World and Donkey Kong Country, I'd argue that the bonuses you are awarded like lives are actually there for the exact opposite reason. It's not optional challenges for experts, but encouragement for newer players to try doing something new or harder. I know that the original DKC has me scrape on by sometimes but then I get rewarded because maybe 1 or 2 deaths are now refunded by my skillful bounces off the kremlings and what have you. It's a risk reward system in that way, can you get the bonus health or lives that you'll probably need before a boss tosses you into a game over.

[@andrewroy9263]

This is why I love the super mario maker franchise. Just let us make the levels as easy/difficult as we want.

[@TVsBen]

In Super Mario 1's 1-2 you can break the block next to the 1-up before hitting it and it just falls through the ceiling about 99% of the time. Then it's very easy to get. Very rarely it'll hop and take that long path you mentioned, which caught me by surprise the first time it happened to me.

[@beyondseasalticecream]

10:35 Typo with 'Nntendo'

[@jasonblalock4429]

It seems like the 'three pipes' as deliberate design goes at least as far back as SMB3, which occasionally gave you super-powerful items that could turn any stage into a breeze - especially the P-Wing. Who hasn't used the P-Wing to fly over that damned auto-scrolling sky fortress in World 8? Not to mention how many levels on the map are outright skippable. OTOH, looking for a challenge? Try holding onto a super-rare suit like Hammer Bros for as long as you can, or try to play through land stages in the awkward Frog Suit. There's even unique dialogue if you beat the boss while wearing an unusual suit, which shows the devs truly wanted the player to experiment with weird suit/level combos. 10:50 BTW, from what I've seen over the years, there are actually TWO reasons that SMB2J didn't get a US release. Besides the difficulty, the other problem was simply how old it was. By 1987-88, the state-of-the-art in NES games had advanced considerably, and it would have felt primitive compared to other games at the time. (Imagine SMB2J going head-to-head with Blaster Master or Ninja Gaiden!)

[@flaxhorizon]

Bro. Your hair is getting tooooo tall 😂

[@capy9846]

?

[@mikemcschlitz]

Congratulations on your milestone of 200 episodes in 10 years! That's an admirable accomplishment Mark-especially considering all the time, craft, and care you put into your work. I applaud your decision to create your own game. It's been fascinating to hear, and more recently, watch you over the years. Watching your videos evolve has been consistently interesting. You took those learned wisdoms & lessons from your analytical video work and then seriously tried your hand at making the thing you studied. That's so interesting to me. You've mined premium knowledge and shared for the betterment of craft and community. Thank you Mark for your valuable insights-the Star Coins of your labors. Looking forward to your game.

[@havenkai8074]

Just want to say here that a boss keys for the new Prince of Persia would be dope. Definitely would be a crazy looking route tree

[@alecadabra_]

Great video. I just realized you’ve never made a video about the Pokémon games, and I think they’re ripe for a deep analysis! Lots of ingenius game design

[@p09jge33we0gj]

14:20 this starcoin was my worst nightmare as a kid

[@Ebrahimgains]

14:52 these features make me anxious, because they make feel tempted to use Luigi/ super tanooki or whatever there is but then id be a baby who can’t even beat the normal levels

[@AnotherDuck]

Grats on 200! And don't worry about the Super Mario Land cartridge. It's a Game Boy cartridge; those things are more durable than the Game Boy itself, which can survive wars.