Excellent explanation for why wealth tax is a terrible idea.
@mdkvalitet2623 Жыл бұрын
Wealth tax in Norway is the biggest rip-off imaginable. 🤦 Important factor is the limit for reaching this "wealth". It is only NOK1.7mil or €160.000 which is not difficult to reach in Norway. Even owning small 20sqm studio in Oslo worth 2.5-3mil NOK will reach that limit, plus on top of that they tax all your cash in the bank, privat or public stocks, bonds, cars, mc, boats, holiday homes, land, privat pension fonds, art pieces, time pieces, jewellery, everything adds up. It's actually not a proper wealth tax because it's average people who pay it as well as mega rich. You could easily work as a cashier or waiter and paying this tax each year. I'm definitely packing my things Michael 😉🙌
@Yogi5D Жыл бұрын
Basically they want a certain population demographic to leave (i.e. their native population) and end up with only refugees
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
To be fair if 2 things were true wealth tax for all might be ok 1. They eliminated other taxes 2. The implementation of the tax was based on tokenizing all the assets then applying a fractional non voting token dilution schedule that equaled the wealth tax and distributed the tokens to the government as the means of paying the tax not requiring payment in fiat That would actually be the least distortive tax possible but the issue is it would disincentivize local company formation and foreign investment so would need some other attraction and retention strategy to accompany it
@Andreas469611 ай бұрын
I disagree on your point that so many people pay it. If you're a cashier and have a house worth over 1,7 million, you probably have enough debt on it to have net assets far below 1,7 million, unless you inherited a paid off house. Only wealthy people actually pay the tax. I do agree that the tax should be repealed pronto, though.
@makingwaves1239Ай бұрын
... and now the same politicians also will stop drilling for oil. Left are only some imbecile ideas that Norway should convert its economy to selling knowledge and building offshore wind mills and other heavy subsidized industries. What could possibly go wrong?
@TheFredrikBakkee Жыл бұрын
I’m Norwegian and thanks for the help getting my affairs set up in an optimized way❤
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Always our pleasure! How do you look at this whole situation?
@TheFredrikBakkee Жыл бұрын
@@OffshoreCitizen The wealth tax is nothing new, but they have recently changed the calculations on the valuations in private companies, your own home and second properties. This really made it impossible to pay the tax without borrowing money or starving your own company for capital. So they left. The billionaires leaving is not the biggest issue, it is the smaller guys with $1-20 million dollar wealth that is the problem. They are the majority of employers in the private sector. I left last year before this whole thing was put into motion. I don't think these business owners will move back any time soon. Especially after they shift their focus to investments in other countries and new markets. So a net negative for the country.
@Larzh220469 Жыл бұрын
If the Nordic welfare states are to survive (they actually have a lot going for them), they need to treat their business owners and entrepreneurs better than this. It's not only people in the billionaire segment who are leaving now.
@johnnysecular9 ай бұрын
Norway treats its businesses really good in terms of taxation, for example there is zero VAT on exports, and it is very predictable how much tax a business should pay (unlike Canada and USA). I disagree with you, Norway does not need to pander to baby minded millionaires in order to support its welfare system, their middle and lower tier income residents contribute a ton of taxes as is; the billionaires can go, good riddance. They are leaving because they became greedy not because the rates are unfair.
@bringiton52827 ай бұрын
@@johnnysecularI agree with you. Having billions and not wanting to share any of it is being greedy and selfish.
@Benjoi6 ай бұрын
This is not the case at all, its more about the tax being extremely unfair. People investing in real estate pays nothing, while company owners pay more. A Norwegian millionare company owners can pay more than a Norwegian billionare real estate owner. Its absolutely nuts and makes no sense. His also highly affects upper middle class people.
@chipyoung4396 Жыл бұрын
The UK under the Labour government had income taxes at 98 percent and overall tax burden for the rich at 102 percent. Most affected people left the uk which led to a union crisis and inflation crisis. The uk went from among the world’s richest countries to needing an imf bailout.
@millerforester6237 Жыл бұрын
I remember the Beatles leaving the country because of these taxes.
@andreassandqvist5252 Жыл бұрын
Living in norway i think it was a good video. 1% doesnt sound like a lot but it is. The wealth tax here starts once you hit 170.000 USD of total value of all assets. That means your car, your house, the vase and even the kitchen sink has to pas 1% yearly. Then you have to earn money and pay taxes to pay that 1% tax, putting you in a high tax bracket. Its a constant struggle to keep it from eroding away. There is a sence of "good riddens" from the people who live here, but I think its sad. The people who leave are often not only rich but also smart, motivated and ambitious. They also seem to forget whos going to pay the taxes when they leave - you are.
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Yes I think it's fundamentally bad for the country. They are significant net producers. A nation should be aiming to attract producers and driving out those with negative value on balance while getting most people to self sufficiency and beyond
@andrewgeissinger5242 Жыл бұрын
And how does a person or the government know the value of the vase or the kitchen sink? For that matter, how do they know the value of the house? Yes, I know that appraisals can be done, but those are still only estimates and not necessarily accurate.
@FrozenSkyy Жыл бұрын
Great video Mike. I actually find countries with flat tax systems for the ultra rich (like Switzerland, Italy) are quite fair... You pay much more than the average guy, and yet, there's a cap to the tax madness. Other countries like Spain, Portugal, France would do well to have something similar.
@villagerintheshire Жыл бұрын
Yes, it would be interesting to see a comprehensive comparion between flat rate jurisdications
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Agreed flat tax is quite pragmatic
@FrozenSkyy Жыл бұрын
@@villagerintheshire I know of only 3 jurisdictions that offer flat taxes: Switzerland, Italy and Greece. Any others I've missed?
@villagerintheshire Жыл бұрын
@@FrozenSkyy 🤔 not sure
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Gibraltar, Antigua, sometimes Anguilla
@ryan.1990 Жыл бұрын
It's almost like "tax the rich" doesn't work! 🤷♂️
@leandrog2785 Жыл бұрын
Socialists literally see things like that happening and think these rich people that flee are de-facto criminals who are manipulating the system to avoid paying their fair share, and take it as yet another confirmation of the idea that fairness and equality can only be achieved by "global cooperation" i.e. there shouldn't be any low tax countries for the rich to flee to, or they should be charged taxes wherever they are, or something like that. Of course, countries who refuse to cooperate are corrupt villains who hate social justice and want a world where the poor are slaves, so it would be completely justified to apply whatever sanctions necessary (perhaps at the same level we've seen with russia). Maybe in a few decades it may even be considered righteous to invade these countries in a mission to free their people and give them justice and equality.
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Surprise surprise 😅
@paulbiner5437 Жыл бұрын
Taxing the rich is what made your country great.
@MichaelALoberg Жыл бұрын
Great video, but here’s a consumer’s tip: emulating the other channel’s “The Scream” thumbnail doesn’t really work for the tone of your channel, and because the average consumer of this kind of video will be subscribed to both, it jumps out pretty hard. Love the information you provide though. Great quality.
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Thanks Not sure if that's true or not but we're doing ongoing testing to try to find a winning formula
@ypey1 Жыл бұрын
You cannot discuss wealth tax without mentioning capital gains tax. Its either the one or the other, having both at the same time sounds like double taxing.
@matthewnirenberg Жыл бұрын
Australia has both. Capital Gains Tax is applied to most things, Stamp Duty is applied at every chance they get and instead of calling it a "wealth tax" they call it "deeming" where they "deem" the value of something based on the highest possible value if you optimised it, or, in the case of IP, they "deem" it as if it were fully monetized and they expect you to pay 70% tax on that amount even though that "deemed" value hasn't ever been actually realised. This is why Australia is going down the drain rapidly and is an almost completely sunk ship. Socialism and Communism have taken hold of Australia and are the prime cause of the over-taxation, over regulation and downfall of the place.
@austinwheeler6234 Жыл бұрын
When I hear about governments introducing taxes like these, I wonder about what's really going on. Do they have economists that predict that this wealth tax will raise revenue over the next 10 years? Is there some unseen external pressure? Is this some kind of distraction? I would really like to see a rational analysis of this tax that shows some hope of profit by some reasonable metric, otherwise I'm forced to consider more eccentric theories.
@millerforester6237 Жыл бұрын
NO MORE F&*d()G TAXES! PERIOD
@andrewgeissinger5242 Жыл бұрын
I think it's more an ideological thing whereby they have an irrational hatred of wealthy people. I doubt that they really care whether it actually brings in net revenue or not.
@joeBloggs-yo6jw14 күн бұрын
I am a British guy living in Norway for 16 years and I honestly can see it getting worse month on month. I will be leaving next year as I do not see a future here even though I am quite close to paying off my mortgage. Back in 2008 if I converted NOK to GBP I was laughing, but now 16 years later I don't get anywhere near the same amount. Like you say the weather isn't very nice and heating your house in winter has become quite ridiculous (at some points it was x16 the normal price). There are also cultural aspects to deal with such as "janteloven" which has resulted in a lack of individualism, ambition, shyness on the whole although I have hope for the younger generations who don't believe in all that. The currency conversion now has meant salaries for the same jobs is much higher in the UK.
@LeXx0r11 ай бұрын
Switzerland also levies a wealth tax btw. But wealthy foreigner can get a Pauschalbesteuerung (basically a flat tax) in some cantons, giving wealth foreigner tax privileges which no Swiss person can obtain (even very wealthy ones).
@OffshoreCitizen11 ай бұрын
They do yes though less and no cap gains to compensate
@Alrightokayok4 ай бұрын
Tax for selling stocks and receiving dividends in Norway is almost 40%.
@walermos7 ай бұрын
they are also now discussing adding tax on the gains on individuals stocks too...as if they where to be sold :/
@jordihako2867 Жыл бұрын
Reminds when AHA's singer Morten Harket was knighted or had some royal condecoration in Norway, A-ha the most successful international band from Norway, he was very sarcastic and said something like ''to be successful we had to leave Norway'' , ' We are a natural resources Superpower but we need to go deeper' pointing out the country's lack of industry or development of technology. Probably so dependant on oil, with the electric car close ahead, they need a new cash crop aka rising taxes.
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Yeah common problem for countries with lots of natural resources The thing is they don't need the tax revenue, this will cause their revenue to drop, they are just being ideological about wealth inequality and this will reduce wealth inequality because the wealthy people will leave
@dannysullivan3951 Жыл бұрын
I got a fix for that, raise taxes everywhere leaving the rich nowhere to run to. Lower taxes more freedom, for those with plenty of cash.
@dekkerfraser Жыл бұрын
Wow look at the videography improvement!
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Thank you! Any other tips/suggestions?
@gavendano92 Жыл бұрын
How do you even accurately value a private company???? Crazy!
@ThomasConover Жыл бұрын
Exactly. That’s how Norway gets you. By blowing up the theoretical value on corps and real estate beyond the sky and above. And you better pay the theoretical tax or else state-sponsored violence will knock in your door very quickly.
@vmoses1979 Жыл бұрын
Forbes, Fortune, Bloomberg all seemed to be able to as see league tables out every year. Are you telling me Norway's government with access to practically all financial details regarding private companies is completely unable to assign a valuation on them??
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
I wouldn't necessarily trust the accuracy of Forbes etc Part of the issue is they could decide one year a company with no profit is hugely valuable based on future expected returns then next year the future prospects have changed and it's worth nothing. The only way to make wealth tax work is it can't be payable in fiat. Instead you dilute the shares and issue them to the government to do with as they please. This removes all questions of valuation, doesn't alter business operations etc The issue with this is no one will form a company locally of that's the case or want to invest locally knowing that will happen to them so you need some way of attracting and trapping capital. I actually think this is possible but doubt governments have the sophistication to do it
@Benjoi6 ай бұрын
If listed it is market value! If not it is book value! Also weird, a lot of companies obviously stopped listing because of this.
@earlh Жыл бұрын
I'm pretty sure not just millionaires, but even folks making 6 figures might move out of the Nordics. Yeah, the environment's nice, and stuff's good quality, but you're paying tens of thousands in taxes for services that aren't what they used to be. Wanna see a specialist? Good luck, you're better off shelling out for a private hospital. Education isn't terrible, but it's just meh. The weather sucks, and the culture makes you feel all alone.
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
How do you see these nations in the future?
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Yes we've got lots of clients leaving those countries. Over time what I refer to as The Great Migration will be away from expensive countries (taxes included as an expense) with poor quality of life (weather being a major factor) and towards low cost good quality of life countries. This will hurt Nordic states hard unless they adapt
@rakerholm Жыл бұрын
I would move if I could afford it. But at the moment I cant. And I dont have a job that would let me move. But in a way I really really want to move and get out of this place.
@earlh Жыл бұрын
@@OffshoreCitizen The Nordic countries will continue towards the path they are headed, unless something radical happens I don't see anything changing. They will continue to be good places for poor and lower-middle class, paid for with increasingly higher taxes on everyone, including low earners. everyone else than In Finland where I am at, starting this year the minimum income tax is 12%. yes, even if you earn 1 euro a year. Anyone making any money will pack up and leave.
@jorgemoll5994 Жыл бұрын
Another reason for things to go quite badly in Scandinavia in the next 50 years is the invasion of foreigners who profess another, very specific religion, and the incompatibility of that religion with the Western world.
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Immigration is definitely creating friction in a lot of places. It would probably help if there was better focus on integration
@robertventer2956 Жыл бұрын
It's not a myth: If you have low corporate tax new companies move into the area. These companies hire employees
@riskmathmoney6015 Жыл бұрын
Michael what do you think about Palau new ID digital residency card?
@thunderwh Жыл бұрын
"Abillity", "Kuala Lampur", "Send a messesage", "Faild experiment" - I'm afraid your video editor needs a spell checker
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Yeah they do thanks for pointing out all the errors
@jordihako2867 Жыл бұрын
Having a super overrated currency is also a problem. One of the most expensive places in the world, all is expensive it adds fuel to the fire.
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Fair though I doubt the local billionaires are being driven out by their currency being too high
@Andreas469611 ай бұрын
What do you mean overrated? The krone is record weak right now.
@al17579 ай бұрын
What if it is limited to wealth in bank accounts leaving out physical assets?
@colloh69137 ай бұрын
People can still hide there money in offshore bank accounts
@JVJ_2000 Жыл бұрын
Hi there Mr.Rosmer, Do you help with opening Retail Bank accounts for foreign non residents in countries like Singapore ? Can I book a free call to enquire about more with you ? I mean for retail/personal banking btw , not corporate banking.
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Yes we do Please send us a message through www.offshorecitizen.net
@HughJason29 күн бұрын
Any thoughts about Morocco ?
@Johndoe-qn9jr Жыл бұрын
I live in sweden the heathlcare is not great the school is not great the safty takes a turn for the worse every day and the weather is not great. Thungs that are great is nature and some of the swedish mentality and i find it easy to get what i want like speciell foods and things like this . For that reason i like to live in sweden the summer mounths when i get children i think other countrys that are safer might be better options and with better schools. Am no looking for good country to live in the other part of the year and to not pay so mutch or no tax at all as a trader
@wesleymalutama3651 Жыл бұрын
All I hear about is how good is your healthcare and education system. Could you elaborate more please ?
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
I think it's always worth considering "compared to what?" And "in what Regards?" I'd argue Sweden has a very good education system. Healthcare the main issue I've seen is the ratio of beds to population. The quality of care is generally quite good and of course it's free which causes people to rate it maybe higher than they should. It's really those ratios that seem problematic.
@Johndoe-qn9jr Жыл бұрын
@@OffshoreCitizen naa students get out of school with to big classes its messy the teachers cant do anything for healthcare the lines are big you die before you get into hospital all this use to be good before also safty was high in sweden but then something changed we are now top in some crimes like gangrape murder i think in Eu and so on ........ and police cant do anything about it their hands are tied because of politics
@Johndoe-qn9jr Жыл бұрын
@@wesleymalutama3651 We have lack of doctors if you get one he is usualy from another country it takes long time to get the healthcare you require like really long .Offcourse you hear everything is fine and we are the most nicest and human country in the world but not to the own people you can have a look at statistics we are at the top of some violent crimes in EU I compare to what we use to be
@Johndoe-qn9jr Жыл бұрын
@@OffshoreCitizen and its not free sort of we do finance it all with one of the highest taxes in the worlld
@merrykrichtsamt Жыл бұрын
In Switzerland there is net wealth tax and only in few councils / cantons it is reasonable % (mainly in German speaking part: Zürich, Schwyz, Zug). There areas / cantons in CH where the wealth tax is creazy (mainly in French speaking part, Neuchatel for example).
@Yogi5D Жыл бұрын
You have to be CHF 10million+ then you can negotiate the wealth tax in your favor in some cantons like Schwyz and probably other places as well. Crazy system we're in thats for sure.
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
This is true but with lots of nuances such as not taxing capital gains (similar to Netherlands) or being able to get a flat tax in some cases, etc
@harisadu8998 Жыл бұрын
A lot of rich Indians get ZERO from the Indian government for their tax money. There's a huge country to develop, feed and educated. So many rich Indians also feel like moving too.
@JoelRepiso6 ай бұрын
This is the reason why the famous KZbin Harald Baldr left Norway. He wanted to make lots of money and worried that the country will just get lots of taxes from him
@gypsybond8651 Жыл бұрын
two comments: 1) you said weather is poor in Norway. but weather has been like that for thousands of years but Norwegians are quite used to it and have adapted to it. 2) high taxes - well Norway has had high taxe rates for decades (about 40-45% since the 1970s). it's the taxe rates in other countries that have come down quite significantly (e.g. in USA, where the richest billionnaires now pay a lower effective tax rate than the working class), making Norway's look higher now.
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
1. Doesn't mean people like it. Historically you needed to be where you made money. This is less true than ever 2. Norway has raised their wealth taxes which are the main issue. Almost no countries have wealth taxes precisely because they don't work well. But some places are raising taxes UK and New Zealand for example. "Effective tax rates" are kind of a red herring used by media trying to stir up sensational stories. The rate of tax quite literally can be lower in much of the world because generally capital is taxed lower than income.
@MrAmhara Жыл бұрын
Please define “super rich” . It would be helpful in understanding your position. Thank you.
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Well we did reference specific examples
@Junkmailcrusades Жыл бұрын
I like your style. I like Nomad Capitalist but he's such a snob wedgie boy. You have a more real approach this subject
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@villagerintheshire Жыл бұрын
😂
@25Soupy Жыл бұрын
Mr. President, it's a known fact the higher the tax rate the less tax revenue collected. President Obama replies, "It's a matter of social justice".
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Yeah this is the voice of privilege being idealistic instead of practical. They also aren't willing to address the root causes of wealth inequality so instead want to do it this way
@trenthansen68 Жыл бұрын
does Norway have an exit tax?
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Not at the moment, but they’re thinking of implementing it soon
@leandrog2785 Жыл бұрын
@@OffshoreCitizen I suppose that a big reason for the sudden emigration from Norway is the expectation of a future exit tax (and other similar things), not just the cost of the new wealth tax per se. What do you think?
@chipyoung4396 Жыл бұрын
They have tall poppy syndrome there. And this is a case of the vast majority can impose at will upon a tiny minority.
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Yes a good constitution needs to limit the powers of the majority on the minority including limitations on taxation The system with the original house of Lords was helpful
@janhansen554 Жыл бұрын
That is not the worce this goverment comes with. They want me as normal worker to pay 2000 euro a year in tax, because i own my own flat compare to rent it.... Its a normal flat in norway....
@johnnysecular9 ай бұрын
is this new in Norway? to pay around 2000 tax for the apartment that you live in? for example ten years ago was it different? i live in Toronto and i pay $2500 canadian dollar a year in property tax on my relatively small apartment that I own. but it was always like this. called property tax.
@millerforester6237 Жыл бұрын
Huh? Slow down and sit on your hands.
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Huh? Slow down the video if it's too fast for you
@hamid1106 Жыл бұрын
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Thanks
@silentdeath78479 ай бұрын
Man i hope i win big in the lottery so i can move from norway aswell 😂
@OffshoreCitizen9 ай бұрын
Where would you move to? :)
@silentdeath78479 ай бұрын
@@OffshoreCitizen propably like Switzerland like the rest or somewhere nice and warm in asia. Norway sure is going to hell now 😂
@johnnysecular9 ай бұрын
@@silentdeath7847have you ever lived anywhere else? like, even for a short period? if you are a Norway citizen and young, I strongly recommend you stay and grow old in Norway, the most fiscally stable country there is.
@winner88897 ай бұрын
Hello from Dubai 🧏🏼♀️ Have got a job offer in Norway but got a huge doubt shall I move there or not. I dont want to pay this 1% for things were earned in other country before. May you please clarify to me (i just 2 weeks collecting info, not much understanding) If Norwegien resident/ citisen will leave Norway so he /she will be free from this tax cabal the same year, including brokers acc. ect will not be taxed by Norway any more? Where can I find more imfo how to escape this cabal later?
@Thomas-wz2nu Жыл бұрын
Please don’t show the far-left Guardian newspaper
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
If even the Guardian are saying it...
@BrunoSilva-fp1mcАй бұрын
Norway is no good nowadays. I want to leave.
@AECH_CH Жыл бұрын
A wealth tax is no biggie, Switzerland also has it, but the rates (1.1% wtf?) and the progression is insane. In Switzerland you cap the progression somewhere arround 0.4-0.6% in most Cantons, plus there's a much lower income tax. So imho it's a fair deal. AND There's no capital gains tax in return, so in a way it's +-0 in the end, as a wealth tax is more consistent for both the tax payer and the state.
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Wealth tax is very terrible to implement and administer. In theory it's the least distortive tax if applied uniformly but then it can't be payable in fiat it needs to be payable in fractions of ownership
@AECH_CH Жыл бұрын
Idk if you are speaking from personal experience, but it's quite smooth here nad works like a charm. No business is going bankrupt if it's owner has to pay like .2% every year. 1% is too much though.
@cryptonian007z2 Жыл бұрын
Dude, you have very little idea about Switzerland which does have a WEALTH TAX 😂
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
Actually I have tons of knowledge about tax in Switzerland and yes Switzerland does have some wealth tax depending on the Canton which can be very low 0.13% but there's also lump sum tax available in certain cases and largely no capital gains. Also many more exceptions from the wealth tax.
@cryptonian007z2 Жыл бұрын
@@OffshoreCitizenLOL, you really don't. Contrary to popular belief, taxes in Switzerland are actually high (corp and personal) and cost of living !!! better not talk about it. Switzerland, Spain and Norway are the only countries in Europe applying wealth tax (I can google too).
@bearship9 Жыл бұрын
Why can't they tax the rich for what their company makes, regardless of whether they are or not inside the country?
@johnnysecular9 ай бұрын
they do. this guy is practically lying. the wealth tax is effectively on cash and cash-like assets, yachts, multiple apartments and villas, multiple exotic cars, it’s not just on productive assets like companies.
@leonarddennehy2100 Жыл бұрын
So it’s ok for d regular worker to lose 30 -40 % if there pay but not the ultra rich🤷♂️!! I’m sure they won’t be on the bread line after paying wealth tax.. if they want to leave let them at least they have enough money to make that change.. bye bye is what I say to deserters
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
It's not about the % it's about the structure of the the tax and the amount relative to benefit If you pay X and what you get in return is comparable to X no big deal If you pay 1000x but what you get is X it makes little sense It gets worse if they are trying to tax you on money you haven't made yet
@johnnysecular9 ай бұрын
@@OffshoreCitizenok good let them go. what is the negative effect to Norway economy? you never explained? If they own a productive company, will they take it with them to Switzerland?
@rhemy1 Жыл бұрын
It’s a little funny seeing rich people running around the world and giving up citizenship to escape taxes. Maybe they should have refugee status for all the injustice. Or maybe they should seek amnesty.
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
They typically aren't giving up citizenship usually only residency
@vmoses1979 Жыл бұрын
Clearly not as much solidarity in proudly socialist Norway as citizens like to believe. A wealth tax is good and proper for the really rich at low rates of 3 to 4% not counting a primary residence. In exchange - billionaires should be alright to deduct income taxes and capital gains taxes. I prefer that a billionaire pays 3% on his 2 billion dollar fortune than 50% on his million dollar salary. The latter is not a proper reflection of his fair share.
@OffshoreCitizen Жыл бұрын
What you're describing doesn't work and is what leads to this exodus Wealth tax in theory is probably the most fair tax BUT and this is a big but, it can't be payable in currency. If you're forced to pay in fiat you have to sell your assets to pay the tax. This is terrible in a ton of ways. First, lots of these assets aren't very liquid (think private company shares and houses for example). This creates selling pressure, which reduces the value of those assets. It also means private owners could lose control of their own companies and undermine building bigger and better, which is net negative for all parties. Finally, it's almost impossible to assess the value of many of those assets and it encourages gamesmanship of the system by exempting some assets but not others so people put more money into some things than they otherwise would. Hence wealth tax at 3 or 4% doesn't work in our present world. To make it work I think what you'd need to do is tokenize all assets and fractionalize them. Then add a decay function issuing new non voting fractions on all the assets at the rate of the desired wealth tax decay function, which gets distributed to the country or the general populace who can then sell or hold as they like. This eliminates the need for private valuations, removes the sell pressure and loss of control and actually simplifies tax collection. But we're a long ways away from that
@vmoses1979 Жыл бұрын
@@OffshoreCitizen Neoliberal economics has clearly taken over everywhere. 1- The exodus is not caused by a tax. It is caused by greed. If a country has no taxes and then introduces a 15% tax rate Those who then leave don't get the right to say a tax caused my leaving. It is their desire to not pay that caused their leaving - in other words greed. This is one of the many ways rich people are let off the hook for their self-serving actions. 2- The vast majority of the greatest wealth is held as shares in public companies. In the west - markets are very liquid and block sales of shares are traded all the time with little hit to the share price. You are simply mistaken in your claim. It is in the public interest that wealth circulates and is invested. This doesn't happen if I just hold onto shares. If, however, I have to pay a 3% wealth tax - I will make sure that I search for investments that more than meet that hurdle rate. It requires rich people to actually take risk rather than sit on their asses. Pre-pandemic the wealthy were paying the German government and other CBs to hold government debt as yields actually went negative. What a terrible use of capital when it is sorely needed in the developing world. As to valuations - Forbes and Bloomberg are able to come up with reasonable estimates for the wealthiest in the world but somehow the IRS or other national tax authorities with granular financial data about individuals/companies are unable to come up with an accurate estimate of wealth. This is not a sound argument. 3- I'm not in favour of a wealth tax for ordinary millionaires. It should start at a relatively high threshold say 20 million net worth. Primary homes should be exempt. But vacation homes should accrue the wealth tax(for those who qualify for them) just as they accrue property taxes. People pay property taxes just fine without selling their home. Here in North America they run upto 1.5% of the assessed value. A wealth tax on property is very doable. As a bonus - it would help to limit homes being bought for 100 million or more. Something that never happened 20 years ago. It just shows you how much money the ultra rich have that they are prepared to pay any price for trophy property/art/baubles but shrink from helping to fund schools and hospitals. 4- Private companies' shares can be valued and private buyers can be found for them. It happens all the time. Do your research. The idea that owners will lose control or have their shares diluted is neither here nor there. Some of the best run companies are widely held ones while some of the worst run companies are family owned. The kind of ownership structure matters little and bears no relevance in assessing the merits of a wealth tax. And besides private company owners can pay the wealth tax from profits if they so choose. Or they can borrow against their shares from a bank. It need not incur a sale. 5- A wealth tax is more than doable. It's just that governments are dominated by neoliberal thinking that sees the wealthy as some kind of sacred cow that must be coddled and catered to. The fact is that a wealthy Norwegian had he/she been born and raised in Burkina Faso of the same parents would be unlikely to be wealthy. Wealth is not derived from personal qualities or hard work or any of the other tropes that the rich trot out to make themselves special. Wealth largely comes about from where you were born, your parents' wealth, your education level etc. This then makes it incumbent that you pay your fair share to the place that provided the opportunity to accrue your wealth.