Super Soldiers

[@logangrimnar3800]

Strength is an over focused part of supersoldiers in scifi. A far more valuable trait would be physical and mental endurance, something Warhammer40k has done great at including with the Space Marines. While not lacking on strength, Astartes in lore are able to stay awake for days to weeks without fatigue, and can even turn off certain parts of the brain like some aquatic mammals. Any infantry soldier will tell you this ability would allow any you to rapidly outpace and outmaneuver any standard fighting force.

[@Nethan2000]

Yeah, this is one of the most important lessons from the current war in Ukraine. Super strength wouldn't make that much of a difference in Mariupol or Bakhmut, although it could enable you to carry more or heavier equipment. Another extremely important quality is superior training, so Matrix-style knowledge download would help a lot, although knowledge can be perfectly well absorbed by classic means, albeit more slowly.

[@jtjames79]

The super-soldier is nothing without the super-engineers, super-scientists, and the super-laborers. That's why it's my hypothesis Mars will never be completely terraformed. It's more useful to just make the colonists all supers.

[@isaacarthurSFIA]

Yeah the ability to go to sleep easy and wake easy is probably one of the best traits for anyone working as soldier, in law enforcement, or as a first responder... I always sucked at napping.

[@Nethan2000]

@@isaacarthurSFIA Superpower: super naps.

[@jamesharding3459]

@@isaacarthurSFIA Napping is optional when every pouch on your web gear has an energy drink in it.

[@GummiArms]

The point about needing the super soldiers to be super citizens brought to mind something I learned about Samurai. They were expected to learn artistic skills, not just to be cultured, but also so they had something to fall back on during times of peace. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples from other cultures as well. As far as writing goes, I could imagine a very poignant scene of a group of super soldiers relaxing between missions. They'd sit around a fire and start composing Haiku, and maybe pick out a favorite. Simple, but very humanizing, could be very powerful if done well.

[@jochentram9301]

European knights were expected to be good dancers. Those who composed poetry, played instruments or sang were generally respected for their skill, assuming they had it. Some of the more famous medieval music that has survived, either as music, or lyrics, or both, was written by knights, e. g., Walther von der Vogelweide's Palaestinalied, or Bertran de Born.

[@mondaysinsanity8193]

The norse were well known for poetry and poetry was elevated greatly in their capacity

[@pyropulseIXXI]

@@jochentram9301 Modern society has as stereotype of fighter or brains types, but doesn't realize that focusing on both and becoming superior in both mental and physical is quite achievable and a very noble goal. Imagine society if we taught that being a warrior scholar was the norm

[@fluffly3606]

In Warhammer 40k, Roboute Guilliman trained his 13th Legion "Ultramarines" to be exemplary administrators and bureaucrats as well as super soldiers, which helped a lot with the integration into the Imperium of territories they conquered during the Great Crusade. This had the very intentional side effect of making them potentially useful to the Emperor even after the Great Crusade was over. Isaac may have alluded to this in showing such an Ultramarine while prefacing the super-citizen concept

[@blu-rae864]

underrated comment

[@kokofan50]

I think Starship Troopers (the book) actually gives a great depiction of super soldiers. They go through extremely harsh training -every year several mobile infantry (MI) cadets die and the majority washout- in all forms of combat, are given power armor that no one but other MI in gorilla suits can fight one on one with, and mostly conduct small unit operations with battles/raids rarely seeing more than a company fight. They also don’t have the problem of what to do with them after because the entire point is earn the franchise and return to society.

[@stevenpilling5318]

That was pretty much what I was going to say. If Heinlein were here today and could see some of the battlefield concepts being worked on, he'd be pleased indeed! In societal values- not so much.

[@dansmith1661]

@@stevenpilling5318 Still better than what we have now.

[@TheArklyte]

1)Starship Troopers doesn't have supersoldiers. It's ordinary soldiers of the Federation, who go through that training regiment and use such equipment. Mostly because Federation is militaristic state that had no use for actual military so the main goal was to wash out people and it became mostly a political and governance filter where people born into military families and being trained by their parents from birth specifically to already be ready for selection process have higher changes to pursue political career unopposed compared to outsiders like Rico. Moreover it is designed to prevent women in command structure and higher political echelons as we see a lot of women in fleet, but none in infantry and for example getting a position of marshal requires serving a tour in both, not just one branch. But tbh that's mostly Heinlein not caring about ST as much as about other of his books as it was a throwaway idea and quite a mediocre book compared to his other creations ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ 2)Heinlein even in the books suggested that the time of Mobile Infantry may be coming to a close in just a few years as they'd be replaced by robotic soldiers. Moreover the combat is kept simplistic ie cool and awesome in your eyes apparently because it wasn't a focus of the book, societal study was. That's why Federation lacks combined arms doctrine as well as close air and artillery support. And why neither "stickmen", nor "bugs" have SPAA or IFVs. Remember mission at the dam in the prologue? Now imagine single MODERN, not even sci-fi one, SPAA parked near the dam. It'll not only intercept the missile, but shred Rico and his squad the moment they'd jump above the rooftops or in the open. And don't say that Heinlein didn't predict it, he worked alongside people, who designed and implemented first CIWS's in the world. So if that aspect isn't mentioned or explored it's likely for much simpler reason - to avoid complicating the story with technical detail "gun porn" that would slow it down, but bring nothing to it x2

[@TheArklyte]

@@stevenpilling5318 and how many of his books have you've read to talk about his view on societal values? Maybe check out his biography and who he worked alongside with both in career and writer, huh? What did Orphans of the Stars tell you about his views? That theocratic feudalism is better? No? Then why do you single out ONE book around which you build your personality, eh?

[@kokofan50]

@@TheArklyte you’re full of BS but you actually read the book, which puts you ahead of a lot of people. What do you call soldiers trained to near super human abilities and fight in powerarmor that can survive a tactical nuke at close range? Yes, the state philosophy of the Federation is that those who aren’t willing to serve the good of the people aren’t fit to govern. I don’t find that a bad thing. If you’ve got actual criticism, not just a slight unflattering description, I would like to hear it. You’re acting like we should find someone being raised to believe in the values of the Federation and going through the process to earn the franchise like everyone else a bad thing. You come off like complaining that some raised as a Catholic is joining the seminary. It’s just has hard for men to join fleet as it is for women to join the grunts. The point of the requirements for Sky Marshal is to keep all but the best from being Sky Marshals. The MI almost entirely conduct special operations raids. We have no idea how far behind the lines they are. The skinnies have limited resources like everyone else, so they can’t protect everything, everywhere all at once. Also, the powerarmor can tank a tactical nuke as close range. Also, you’re forgetting about that the MI aren’t thousands of feet in the air. Ground clutter is going to make it practically impossible to target the MI. I doubt one or even several SPAA would stop the MI. On the arachnids, they evolved to do things we use machines, so machines are redundant to them.

[@unintentionallydramatic]

Last time I was this early Spartans were still child soldiers.

[@WolfeSaber9933]

What about their predecessor, the Orion supersoldiers?

[@arcadiaberger9204]

@@hypotheticalaxolotl Whenever someone mentions child soldiers these days, I'm reminded of a scene I saw recently: Superman: I don't quite understand. What do you mean when you say this boy was your best friend...? Shazam: I need to show you something. *_Shazam!_* [Superman looks at little Billy Batson for a long silent moment.] Superman: Who _did_ this to you?

[@WolfeSaber9933]

@@hypotheticalaxolotl The Orion troopers were adult volunteers. One of them was Avery Johnson.

[@unintentionallydramatic]

@@arcadiaberger9204 Wait which movie was that?

[@WolfeSaber9933]

@@hypotheticalaxolotl What is their Spartan generation number, the Orion troopers? Look them up.

[@robloggia]

I always assumed that the real reason they didn't make more super soldiers after Steve Rogers is that they realized you need need someone they lucked out in finding a truly 100% altruistic person who is also 100% immune to cynicism and corruption. Absolute power corrupts absolutely except Steve Rogers.

[@Betrix5060]

Unfortunately this is anything but canon. Apparently his super-serum is just neigh impossible to reproduce because people have been trying to do just that ever since without success, unless you count the Hulk. I do like how in the early MCU it was very explicit that Iron Man wouldn’t be special in about 20 years, because by then the US, and several other countries, would be capable of mass producing similar suits and issuing them out like fighter jets at worst. Though I doubt they’ll follow up on that now that the clock is up, even accounting for the Thanos speed bump.

[@robloggia]

@@Betrix5060 Probably for the best then. I can imagine all manner of people who shouldn't be allowed to get so much as a wiff of it.

[@TailAbNormal]

@@Betrix5060 Disney already confirmed an Armor Wars film with Don Cheadle. And even way back in Winter Soldier the U.S was able to make Falcon's flight suit.

[@boobah5643]

@@Betrix5060 "...unless you count the Hulk." And ignore the entire plot of _Falcon and the Winter Soldier._ The plot of that show (when it wasn't trying to browbeat with political messaging) was that someone had made more super serum, and our titular heroes had to keep it out of the wrong hands.

[@dansmith1661]

@@Betrix5060 Yet they were able to mass produce the atomic bomb easy.

[@TheVoiceOfReason93]

Funny thing about 40K Space Marines: It's established that the Emperor intended them to be more than just killing machines that the Thunder Warriors were. Beyond their combat and tactical prowess they had constantly been shown to be abled administrators (had to manage logistics for entire wars, after all), artists, politicians (especially the Ultramarines) and who knows what else. During the Great Crusade Era there were much discussions about what they were going to do with the Astartes after the galaxy was won, and some Primarchs like Horus actually encourage their gene-sons to pursue hobbies and learning beyond war so they can have a purpose in the post-GC era. Of course, with the Horus Heresy and the constant wars which followed this never happened and would unlikely to ever happen - after all, in the grim darkness of the far future there is only war. There is also an issue with civilian intergration of supersoldiers after the end of wars and their purpose which the 40K verse or related media have noted every now and then: the problem with supersoldiers is that as their enhancements and training put them above mere mortals, the lack of limitations and connections with them make them difficult to empathise or relate to the common people and often contemplate matters beyond ordinary humans' understanding. This inability of relation would make it significantly difficult for them to coexist with humanity as a whole in the long run, and it's one of the big reasons why even during the GC era the Emperor, for all his faults, had made it clear that the Astartes are made to serve the Imperium rather than rule over Humankind. Of course, the memo was lost among/poorly communicated to the Astartes and Primarchs which turned traitor, which contributed to the Horus Heresy.

[@Nightmare704RY]

I do believe in the long run something like the HH from the astartes was inevitable, if you know nothing but war for 200 years and then you're told there is no wars to fight and you have to live like any normal humans for the rest of your millennia long existence I think many astartes would have gone mad and rebelled just so they could go back to what they knew. Hell it would not surprised me that if in a reality where the Horus heresy never happened the principal use of astartes post great crusade was containing the treat of others like them going rouge.

[@hazbin2034]

The emperor had such plans for the primarchs, but not for the astartes. There's establish lore that he planned to orchestrate a conflict to cull most of them just like he did with the thunder warriors. He might have planned to keep some of them around but never intended for astartes to be a permanent fixture, which is why he never took the time to fix the various gene-flaws they had and his overall callous attitude towards them.

[@literalsarcasm1830]

You should read the Spinward Fringe series by Randolph Lalonde. One of the major plot points of the series is a nanotechnology called "Framework" that transforms anyone who takes it (it can be ingested in a pill form) into what is essentially an immortal super soldier. The main characters of the first book are tasked with stealing the technology from an interstellar megacorperation and putting on the market for anyone to access so that this one megacorp doesn't become all powerful as a result of being the only users.

[@Georg3e]

This is interesting!

[@literalsarcasm1830]

@@Georg3e a rival corporation figures out how to create a basic consciousness and implant it into a body made from framework, essentially creating a slave race that can be programmed to perform specific tasks, but also to be 100% loyal.

[@gso619]

That's kind of one of my favorite aspects of Warhammer 40k - how in the face of certain death, superhuman killing machines will often despair and look for any way out, because they consider themselves too great to be "wasted" like this. While the contingent of regular guardsmen literally 10ft away from them are currently hyping themselves up for the sickest last stand ever, because they accepted their own mortality about a week into basic. There's a reason the big E always intended for regular humans to be in charge, despite said super soldiers being faster, smarter and taller, which is usually how rank is signified in 40k.

[@imperium4821]

The Emperor only created the Imperial Guard during the Horus Heresy, and that's one of the last things he did before he was placed on the Golden Throne. Before this, most of the wars were fought using Primarchs and Astartes

[@nunyabeeswax2555]

​@@imperium4821 not completely accurate. The astra militarum was dissected from the exertus impirialus at the end of the HH. (spelling?). Prior to even the great crusade, during the unification wars, big daddy E used multitudes of baseline humans to augment his thunder warriors. Many of those regiments (at least the name haha) survived the UW, the GC, the HH, and likely even served in the indomitus crusade.

[@Sara3346]

@@imperium4821 This is true only in the sense that the Imp Guard and Imp navy were not seperate before that point.

[@vincentcrow6075]

Do you have any idea what are you talking about?

[@Sara3346]

@@vincentcrow6075 Yeah the biggest thing in space marine mental condoning is accepting your own death (and loyalty of xourse) last I recall?

[@manwiththeredface7821]

I can't help but think about medieval knights (and their role back then) when it comes to supersoldiers in sci-fi. I think the whole sci-fi trope of supersoldiers came to existence because of them, a group of highly trained people who represented honour and protection.

[@rommdan2716]

Better got those Super Crossbows quick.

[@dashiellgillingham4579]

Recall the exact socioeconomic circumstances that generate such arrangements. A single well-equipped individual has to be able to defeat several dozen times more ordinary people with cheap weapons. It has to require an entire local community to equip such an individual. There also has to be so much instability that every community requires such an individual or it will be attacked, implying the absence of a larger system of social security, economic organization, and grievance redress that would make such attacks extremely rare.

[@shawnwales696]

Eh, forgot about the many jews and gypsies murdered by Christian knights on their way to the various crusades did you? Don't forget the persecution of the Cathars. It's never as idyllic IRL vice mythology and legend.

[@boobah5643]

@@shawnwales696 Egad! Oh noes! You're accusing some Christian knights of killing members of the people that murdered their God, people everyone knew* preyed on the communities they visited, and heretics encouraging apostasy, a fate worse than mere death. You may as well complain they didn't take a plane to Jerusalem. *What do you 'know" that people a millenium from now will scoff at?

[@userequaltoNull]

@@shawnwales696 yeah, those holy wars which have all been extensively documented due to their rarity? The Crusades were by far the exception in Europe, probably because they weren't even in Europe. The actual day-to-day duties of medieval lords was to keep the roads safe, enforce the law, mediate conflicts, and serve in their Lord's military. Also training. Lot's of training.

[@AltimeterAlligator]

Scott Sigler's short story _Passenger_ features some neat asymmetry in supersoldiers with a focus on unit cohesion. As an example, Sigler describes a recon specialist who squeezes into unusual hiding places and hibernates for weeks until an opportunity presents itself. There's also a dropship pilot who's hard-wired into his aircraft and physically senses incoming threats, but the machinery borrows so much of his brain power that he only speaks in robotic pilot jargon. Each member of the unit is so specialized that they're all helpless without each other. It's a neat concept.

[@WulfgarOpenthroat]

Funny, my preferred approach to super soldiers when making my own factions has always been super-colonists/citizens; a focus on uplifting everyone, not just a few and further stratifying society.

[@grahamtotte7133]

You uplift the few to subjugate the others and hopeful have some system in place to prevent them from overthrowing you.

[@Dragrath1]

@@grahamtotte7133 In the case of colonists a hereditary type of superhuman/transhuman upgrade will always provide a better yield long term as your regular colonists would also have to replicate since the journey through space is hard and long barring magical FTL. This is the power of exponential growth

[@pizzacheeseman2854]

An egalitarian society would do that, but most societies now and in sci-fi aren’t egalitarian

[@dansmith1661]

@@pizzacheeseman2854 Sci-fi ones tend to be homogeneous.

[@grahamtotte7133]

@@Dragrath1 Yes but the warrior class of transhuman would have upgrades the rest are not privy to. Because whoever controls the super soldiers controls everyone else as well.

[@theblindlucario5093]

Ah yes the SPARTAN-2 episode we've all been waiting for

[@bentuovila5296]

Equipment with the most important armor of all...plot armor.

[@jasonGamesMaster]

@@bentuovila5296 and woe betide a spartan who is more useful as a martyr

[@DenethorDurrandir]

One important part, and probably the "best" one in my mind, that you haven't touched on, is the Capsuleer/Templar EVE Online approach, selecting a "fine specimen", augmenting them with essentially a brain scanner and an antenna (among other augments) that scans the brain at the moment of/before death and sends a backup home to be loaded into a clone/android, creating a soldier with the ability to learn even from battles they die in, much like a gamer, every engagement is a net gain, and would also make it logical and reasonable to "sacrifice" themselves if it had a good chance of ensuring victory, not much different then being benched by the coach

[@jotatsu]

All SPARTAN-II soldiers have the socialization skills of an eggplant.

[@thekaxmax]

A design failure

[@simonk.9530]

21:06 Jango Fett was chosen because he was the best at hunting Jedi which was the main purpose of the clones in the eyes of their creators Palpatine and Dooku. That his clones were very capable super-soldiers in other aspects was just a positive side effect.

[@temmy9]

motie warriors from Mote in Gods Eye were the ideal super soldier. Perfectly loyal to the masters, fast breeders, self training, capable of building and modifying their own weapons on the fly and extremely deadly.

[@isaacarthurSFIA]

Just an all around good book too :)

[@kraugr4989]

Oh wow! Bonus episode! Thanks Isaac!

[@isaacarthurSFIA]

You bet!

[@whyjay9959]

I think an interesting option is parents being allowed to choose which standard(or less standard) modifications to apply to their children, and the results expressing cultural and subcultural differences more than leaders' decisions do.

[@benji45645]

While not necessarily "soldiers" in the classic sense, I really like the approach EVE Online takes with the immortal capsuleer. You (the player and a handful of NPCs) are augmented for the specific purpose of piloting a ship. For that purpose, you are able to directly interface with your ship, removing the need for a good chunk of your ship's crew. You also are functionally immortal, as your consciousness is transferred to a new clone at will or at the moment of death. This creates an interesting problem: you have these specialized individuals who are far more privileged than normal people, not just in terms of money (which, in the game, 1 unit of currency is equal to what a well-off normal person would make in a year), but also in terms of the devaluation of life, since you can do things significantly riskier than a normal person would, knowing that you will be resurrected. However, these capsuleers also are total loose cannons and require significant incentives to work in some faction's interests. It's an interesting approach because you'd have pilots who could singlehandedly increase your fleet's potential by 10x just by piloting a ship you'd otherwise need hundreds of additional crew to operate (in the case of capital ships), and, since they are individually skilled into specific tasks and equipment (for example a pilot who is trained only to excel at flying a supercarrier), and because they are functionally mercenaries, you as a faction can shop around for the specific capsuleer that fits your needs. It's less of a production line for clones and more of an applicant pool for employment in specific tasks they excel at.

[@GojiMet86]

There probably would be cascading effects from Super Soldiers. Military innovations do eventually find their way to the civilian population (GPS, tampons, duct tape, microwave ovens, etc). We might see super-laborers in more dangerous lines of work (mining, logging, construction, pilots) or former super soldiers working in police departments. It would also be inevitable that regular citizens would eventually get access to super serums or tech.

[@KwadDamyj]

Wait, tampons were derived from military technology? I gotta know more.

[@sephrosemary]

@@KwadDamyj probably to plug bullet wounds, come to think off it 🤔 Edit : I checked, no, tampons weren't invented by the military, they were invented for the same purpose they serve today

[@Rakaziel]

@@KwadDamyj There were originally invented for plugging bullet wounds

[@patrickkenyon2326]

@@KwadDamyj They were designed as a bandage to fill bullet holes.

[@NancyLebovitz]

It occurs to me that a lot of failure modes come from civilians trying to design super soldiers. What would super soldiers designed by soldiers look like? I've heard that soldiers tend toward three physical types-- tall and muscular (max strength), thin-- not sure of height (max speed), and short and wide (max endurance).

[@thekaxmax]

Star with the ability to consume coffee without water. Add the ability to sleep once every three days and stay alert the whole time.

[@archapmangcmg]

@@thekaxmax The Culture's drug gland. And I'd add in physical and mental stability/resilience. We've used machines to amplify power for ages and we won't stop any time soon so normal human strength range is sufficient. As a bonus, it means your scientists and engineers will be instinctively grasp better what your soldiers can do that way. If you can boost your scientists and rest of society in strength, you might as well and then you can have your military gear reflect that, too, but strength beyond what your engineers understand and think of is something that can be neutral or even bad. Supersoldiers punching buttons and breaking the buttons. No, what I'd concentrate on is amplifying human advantages: endurance and stamina, psychological resilience, general intelligence, ability to reason things through quickly, override instincts and emotions and empathy for their fellow soldiers AND for the people back home. You WANT your soldiers to have all the reasons you can engineer for them to fight their best when the time comes. Self-repair/healing, dexterity, improved senses and information processing, multitasking, there are a lot of things that are nice to have, but resilience, stamina, inc mental endurance, might be the most significant boost. Soldiers who don't mind standing guard and don't lose their edge would be super.

[@JM-mh1pp]

I would say resistance to stress and being able to sleep on command. Everything else is pretty much a bonus.

[@brownwhale5518]

So a lot like an American football team.

[@dragodx8238]

I find the Pilots from Titanfall interesting in that while they have access to jump jet technology, superior weapons and gear, and giant robots, they have very minimal modifications to their own self. The most we hear are simulacra that are basically AI recreations of deceased Pilots and possible implants for Cloak Pilots. Every other Pilot just has to pass rigorous training, of which most trainees simply drop out because they couldn't complete it. They're the best of the best and they earn it.

[@jasonhenry8067]

It’s one of those 1-in-10-billion scenarios kinda similar to 40k, where the human population is so large you get enough apex humans to build a military unit around them

[@tomfoolery1123]

11:13 This reminds me of this qoute. "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." -- Thucydides

[@isaacarthurSFIA]

Everybody always offers me great quotes I wish I included in the episode AFTER the episode is done, I really need a time machine. :)

[@tturi2]

@@isaacarthurSFIA I think you pretty much said that when you said that your scientists overdevelop rubber tyres instead of rubber shoes

[@isaacarthurSFIA]

@@tturi2 :) But certainly less poetically

[@tithonusandfriends8519]

"If you use heavy cavalry then the enemy will run away into the forest!" Me with my estates deep in the plains secure, without having to deal with attrition as the enemy ran away.. :D

[@misterbitey2107]

"People piloting battle mechs isn't what we mean by super soldier" *points and laughs at clanners*

[@michealnelsonauthor]

Yeah, I get the point, but piloting a mech isn’t like sitting in your game chair clicking at a computer game. Pacific Rim had it right, as a workout!

[@richardrreeves]

The arachnids of Starship Trooper fame and the Formics from Orson Scott Card's series are the disposable super soldier models.

[@CartoonHero1986]

Military use of PE is also a very important part of building unit cooperation and trust in each other. We'd do a lot of old school telephone pole PE during summer cadet training since it was great for PE that just tired you out for the rest of the day's lecture style training and did a lot of group and moral building between the people randomly tossed together with other's from outside their corp for 3 to 6 weeks VERY fast. Plus nothing teaches you empathy and respect for each other like seeing how much the pole smacks around the short cadets at the end of the formation when running in a double time march, or the more barrel chested cadets nearly getting winded each time they go down on a sit up as they take the whole weight of the pole for a millisecond; but never bitching about it. I HATED morning PE but when we'd see the telephone poles on the field; I knew it was gonna be a good day.

[@isaacarthurSFIA]

Unfortunatetly those drills were very uncommon, at least where and when I was, I heard lots of nostalgic praise or hate of them from older sergeants but the focus was all on PT tests maximizing in my unit.

[@keirangrant1607]

I remember one deployment with the Marines, where we went on almost 200 mounted/dismounted patrols. My arms hurt so much from carrying my medical equipment and weapon that I could barely open the HUMVEE doors. If I wasn't in shape I would never have made it past the 1st month

[@TheArklyte]

Ngl, wouldn't have said this to american soldier hadn't you mentioned being a medic, but thank you for your service 👍

[@UpliftedCapybara]

Timothy Zahn really is a great writer for Star Wars. Hopefully Thrawn gets written well when he’s brought into the Ahsoka show this year.

[@cannonfodder4376]

Another deep and informed look at a common Sci-Fi topic. A great Sci-Fi Sunday video Isaac.

[@tanin34]

Isaac and team, thank you for all you do!

[@HalIOfFamer]

One of the most super but also down to earth abilities I have read in fiction is instant sleep hypnosis in starship troopers. You sleep as much as you need and can afford in a given situation, then you get woken up and put the other shift to sleep instantly, they wake up and you can keep going. Even being able to do this in short 15 minute microsleeps would imo work as well of not better than ww2 time Wermacht being high on pervittin for days.

[@greggweber9967]

A smaller, more agile destroyer is good until it is hit and slows down. David was smaller but fast enough to avoid being hit and had a disabling long-range weapon and was able to use the enemy's weapon against him before he recovered.

[@kingpest13]

A Warhammer AND dune reference in one vid? I'm here for it. I know it's not what you do but going through the Warhammer uni science may bring in new subs.

[@peterpan4038]

There will never be a perfect soldier, because no matter how good: what is best all depends on the specific conflict. Your enemy will make damn sure stuff changes enough to make the best you have look like it's not enough, in one or more ways. I just can't imagine a scenario "perfect" will ever be "perfect" enough in regards to warfare.

[@thekaxmax]

So go low and generic: ability to stay awake and alert for three days at a time, ability to consume coffee without water, broaden digestion, increase determination and stamina.

[@peterpan4038]

@@thekaxmax Yeah, general perks like that would be fantastic. And add more specialized "upgrades" to those that well: benefit the most from being really good at their specific job. I would imagine the response time to whatever your enemy cooks up would be more important than maximum specs by themselves. Because i doubt we can have ALL the "upgrades" all the time without any compromises.

[@friendlyheretic9103]

In my homebrew rpg world there was a super soldier program that backfired massively on societal level. When it was closed the society had to deal with a significant population of higly aggresive purpose made warriors with abysmal social skills, no marketable skills in terms of work or everyday life and usualy with a lot of resentment towards the government. At first it was thought that they will die out because they were incapable of natural reproduction but a decent chunk of public opinion was with them in a sort of civil right movement so the government was also forced to expend a lot of resources to give them acces to artificial reproduction and opening social programs for them

[@arx3516]

IMO the most practical depiction of super soldiers in fiction is the coordinators from Gundam Seed, people genetically modified while still in the womb to be healthier and far more intelligent and with quicker reflexes than normal humans.

[@ShaunRF]

Should I play the First Rule of Warfare drinking game with this episode, or would that be too dangerous?

[@olejnik5165]

There is something wonderful seeing Taller, stronger humans that are superior war machines being within power armor being essentialy walking tanks, there is something wonderful in a fight between a supersoldier human vs another basic strong Alien it shows that we as mankind we can do everything and noone can stop us because we will overcome any hardships, and cmon Soldiers in Power armor look cool af!

[@jeffreyatlee8785]

Anyone interested in a dystopian super soldier story should check out "After The Revolution" by Robert Evans.

[@m249machinegun2]

Longest set up for a headless Thompson gunner joke ever.

[@czb117]

Great episode! Loved seeing the early Timothy Zahn books mentioned. Heir to the Empire and its sequels are fantastic stories that build off the original films instead of breaking them. I've always wondered, where is the love for Halo on SFIA? Obviously the core of Halo is about the characters, but the settings and technologies fit so well with SFIA topics. Specifically, the choices made in the Orion project vs the Spartan II program would have been rich territory for this episode. That being said, I do appreciate the opportunities to learn about sci-fi series I was unaware of through this channel.

[@Mantic0reIlluminati333]

0:11 What she see's when I woop it out.

[@DreadNought0255]

The most believable "super soldier" I have seen in media is in an anime movie "Genocidal Organ". They aren't physically superior, but they have been conditioned to be basically immune to combat stress and injury pain response. Meaning regardless of what is happening around them and to them, they don't lose focus or panic. In fact kind of the same deal with soldiers from the movie "Soldier" with Kurt Russell in the lead. Though these would fall into the cloned army category because these soldiers take a whole generation to mature into combat ready state. Though you can have a steady stream of them after the first batch has finished cooking. As for equipment, far more importance would of been put to not being seen. There are a LOT of issues with heavy power armor systems like a half-ton Mjolnir from Halo or 40k space marine armor. Momentum is a b*tch and without mercy. Or hell, just the fact that when operating in anywhere with soft ground means sinking into the soil every step. Problem with physically enhanced super soldiers is that it is a lifetime setup. They are born into it, live it and die in it. No regime is going to let their expensive and likely VERY CLASSIFIED trained killer put in a quit notice and go off to do landscaping. You have to keep them in line and loyal. And occupied. The worst thing for a commander are bored soldiers. Now imagine bored super soldiers!

[@aguspuig6615]

It always confused me how in 40k they place such an emphasis on recruiting mentally tough people to become space marines only to wipe their minds anyways, acting like mental toughness is genetic and every personality trait is predisposed, wich is something very recurrent in 40k and that makes the story way less immersive imo

[@KevinsArmory]

epigenetics of stress does exist and can be inheritable

[@mjk9388]

Fantastic video Isaac and Team!!! I've been looking forward to this one for a long time.

[@justarandomname420]

Hopefully this is the start of you transitioning to a Warhammer 40k lore channel!

[@isaacarthurSFIA]

Only if I got to help make it :) So probably never. I'd love to actually get to help build the lore up for the Old Night era. Although I have it good authority that at least one of the current BL writers does watch the show.

[@justarandomname420]

@@isaacarthurSFIA I'd listen to you make lore for the Old Night, or anything else! Just having you help GW fix the numbers of planets and people in the galaxy would be wonderful.

[@scurvydog20]

@@isaacarthurSFIA talk to arch.

[@stormxlr2377]

@@scurvydog20 or rather don't, manny worms in that can. Better option would be Leutin.

[@Theembodimentchannel]

YES YES YES holy god emperor Isaac YES

[@OldTexasRed]

The first thing that I thought when I saw the title was "Please talk about Space Marines, Please talk about Space Marines" xD

[@MrKIMBO345]

This science fiction subject is interesting as I am aware of use the supersoldiers, like Warhammer 40k and Halo franchise. Plus, in the near future, the once concept of the supersoldiers are just soldiers of the future as the states need the soldiers in the mass.

[@rairaur2234]

Great to hear you talking openly about your kids! I vaguely remember you mentioning that you are legality obliged to be careful about the topic until after the fact. You'll be one hell of a dad, I'm sure! Congratulations!

[@timsmith956]

The super soldier will consist of more exoskeleton suit. Today we see all around from ankle braces to technology from company DARPA AND Boeing. THE FUTURE WILL BE BRIGHT

[@Vatnikgobyebye]

The Juicer and Crazy from the Palladium TTRPG definitely come to mind as super soldiers with either a short expiration date or one that inevitably becomes a liability to the deploying society. Though they are fun to play in an insane world.

[@DSlyde]

Rifts?

[@TheJarric]

2020 does this too

[@Mr.Beauregarde]

A curious army calls for a Snooper Soldier

[@domehammer]

Universal Soldier series had a interesting take on super soldiers. It was reanimating the corpses of soldiers then enhancing them with a variety of genetic and mechanical modifications. Was a very interesting sci-fi setting as it wasn't really that different from our own time except for the technology to reanimate dead soldiers and modify them into super soldiers.

[@kobebarka8633]

Happy Sunday my friends! May we all live long and prosper 🖖🏻

[@isaacarthurSFIA]

Same to you!

[@johndawson6057]

8:40 Omni-man

[@Bibibosh]

i love watching isaac . such a relaxing way to drift of to sleep! then i watch the rest when i wake up !

[@nihilusdirus]

I do the exact same thing

[@AmariFukui]

Its funny how often 40k comes up with examples relating to this, for the super citizens aspect I remember two particular ones Gulliman was training his Ultramarines to be administrators for the newly conquered territories whilst the emperors custodians were more than just supersoldiers but philosophers, artists, close advisors and all around just very intellectually gifted and active in addition to their work of being the bleeding edge of quality

[@Cousin-Eddy]

Soldier (1996) was my favorite take on the concept rather than Universal Soldier.

[@VindensSaga]

Warhammer 40K space marines was at the best when they were walking tanks and nothing, more now they have gone overboard it is just hilarious.

[@afriendofafriend5766]

I know this isn't *really* what you're talking about but there are some instances in which quantity has a quality of its own, my first thought turns to missile saturation attacks for something like a navy.

[@grahamtotte7133]

That is a quote from Joseph Stalin. It is Soviet era military doctrine. Have simple rugged and cheap to produce tanks that can be deployed in huge numbers and operated and supported by disposable soldiers that can be quickly replaced as they are killed. It is a psychopathic strategy but it does produce results. Only possible in a society with a totalitarian political system that does not need to take public opinion into account. Think of the movie "enemy at the Gates" when raw recruits were taken off the train as soon as they arrived and paired up 2 men to a rifle and sent to the meat grinder at the front line of the siege of Stalingrad. When one is killed the other takes the rifle and keeps going and anyone who takes a backward step is shot.

[@dabluflcn]

I liked John Scalzi’s Old Man’s War for the brain pal. Putting aside the new engineered super bodies, information is power. If a soldier or unit knows what another unit knows without seeing it with their own eyes they can coordinate better. Drones or satellites see targets from above a soldier can’t see, a soldier on the ground elsewhere has visual confirmation, now every soldier in a given battle, up the entire chain of command, also knows where and what the enemy is. That is undeniable power. That is the future of manned warfare.

[@jessegilley3417]

I love your ability to logically extrapolate various future scenarios, and this is no exception. That said, I firmly believe war (in a physical sense) to be a great filter for a species.

[@benjaminrees3687]

It's a tough one for me. War has led to most of our technological leaps, but drives us towards our own demise. Would humans ever get to a space faring capable place if it wasn't for conflict driving it On another note competition seems to drive evolution more than anything else

[@diegotrejos5780]

This is exactly why pointless forever wars are optimal, just keep sending men to the meat grinder and those who come back will eventually be divine enlightened beings capable of everything.

[@AvalonianusProa]

I'd recommend watching Soldier, a 1998 scifi movie with Kurt Russel, where a normal man raised since birth to be a soldier is replaced by genetically engineered super soldiers.

[@Sara3346]

20:04 Which is why it is a good thing that Astartes have great blood clotting abilities, though I think this comes at the cost of clean healing if I recalll correctly.

[@submarine6410]

Have you done a video on "superweapons" yet?

[@isaacarthurSFIA]

That's the scifi Sunday episode for April :)

[@Jasonmakesvideo]

Not to mention 90% of the ships he's talked about could be weapons given the amount of energy involved

[@submarine6410]

@@isaacarthurSFIA nice

[@Halak014]

A super soldier story with cloning "The Clone Republic" series by Steven L. Kent, Is kind of cool take. The general grunts are a base clone with a mental programing of not realizing they're a clone or they'll die so the "normal" ones don't talk about it, and we get to know how there was a clone type that became Legendary for there brutality after they murdered a whole planet while on a peace keeping mission. Resulting in a ban on that type of clone. The world building of clones as a second class citizens, expendable and hated by some high up generals just give a great story. Also there is a type of clone for covert ops that is just bread short, ugly, loyal and those are just cool boys over all. I can say it gets a bit long but it has a heart. Military sci-FY is cool.

[@aurex8937]

I'm super sold on this topic!

[@whade62000]

In many books "super soldier" is just a silly throwaway idea, like collecting dinosaurs to turn them into WEAPONS in the Jurrasic World films. There is often no plausible way these "biological weapons" could be more useful than simple humans with modern equipment. But if we consider what breeding or engineering humans for war'd actually look like it's pretty scary and I'm not sure society would allow such a caste of people to exist.

[@emilsinclair4190]

In an intergalactic scenario the civilian problem of super soldiers can be ignored do to ships traveling slowly and you having the ability to isolate those soldiers.

[@loneneotank.5687]

In "Titanfall" soldiers have nanotechnology and jump kits to let them have increased endurance, mental capacity and reaction time say they were hand to hand against a regular grunt, the supersoldier could dodge every punch, and knockout the grunt easily, even to the point of killing them with one punch. As the nanotech utilizes adrenaline, and makes the muscles stronger overall. If they are to die in training, which there is a 90% posibility, their conciousness can be downloaded by the nanotech into a machine body, with that same training, destroying any infantry in it's path while zipping across the battlefield like an olympic runner and shooting as accurate as bullseye.

[@theonebeing981]

I'm new to the channel and I really liked the subjects discussed in the videos, I don't want to come out like an ass, but I would like to ask ñ, is the narrator using UwU talk for fun or is it a speech thing, I'm not trolling, it's just that I was listening while working and noticed.

[@dougkrultz2149]

the TNG episode 'the hunted' is a great analogy for how parts of society treat soliders after war.

[@digitalnomad9985]

"Tommy" by Rudyard Kipling: I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer, The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here." The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die, I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I: O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away"; But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play, The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play, O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play. I went into a theatre as sober as could be, They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me; They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls, But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls! For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside"; But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide, The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide, O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide. Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap; An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit. Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?" But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll, The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll, O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll. We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too, But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you; An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints, Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints; While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind", But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind, There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind, O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind. You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all: We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational. Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace. For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!" But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot; An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please; An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

[@koiyujo1543]

Hey issac I hope you talk about binary stars, the hability of dwarf red stars, hability ultra cool stars, interstellar communication, ocean cities, ocean farming, and such as what I wanna see why places like earth you won't see hyperloops on earth size worlds and more like the moon and stuff because one of the YTbers like Adam something explains why their not very good at transportation and how will only see em on the moon and such, and how much utterly expensive they are compared to the fraction of cost of bullet trains and how we can haul more containers on trains than 12 tubes of hyperloop could ever please talk those.

[@BethKjos]

Isaac! We need a list of "First Rules of Warfare". I would pay for a calendar of these.

[@jwilliamsmith9316]

Sounds like the clones from The Bad Batch are pretty ideal

[@SolarCrossGames]

FOR THE EMPRAH!

[@tyrreloneal5178]

Just when I thought this channel couldn't get ANY cooler... I watch this dope video about super soldiers and like it even more! This is gonna help someone write some great stories! 😉

[@danielefabbro822]

That's true. Clones for example could be a sort of good "cannon meat" that you can easily produce in short time, with the bare minimum training and equipment and thrown in the battle to slow down enemies or overwhelm them. I won't call them "supersoldiers" in any instances.

[@TechnoLawyer]

Isaac ain’t lying about the need for good noise canceling earbuds when you have a family and work from home. Game changing for your sanity. I can’t speak to Raycon, but I assume they all do more or less the same thing. Anything that fits comfortably and has active noise canceling is what you want.

[@gkr2189]

Another wonderful video, many thanks for making it Isaac, your the best.

[@blumoogle2901]

One thing that isn't completely out there is brain radios, literal radios like in a cell-phone, broadcasting and receiving brain signals that don't have to be pushed through the constraints tube of double translation that written symbols and language impose on communication but can send emotions and nuance and associated concepts as a chunk explicitly and not implicitly.

[@yveslafrance2806]

Great episode! I’m a bit surprised you didn’t bring up the human soldiers in Old Man’s War, by J. Scalzi, with their lab-growned bodies combined with a mind-transplant. And the idea of Ghost Brigades.

[@tyrreloneal5178]

Also, thank you for putting into video form how I and few other people in these comments feel about super soldiers: they shouldn't just be stronger than the average person!

[@atl3652002]

Spartans from Halo and Starship Troopers is probably where we’ll end up going

[@chambers5945]

One Viking berserk held back an army of English on a bridge. There is a similar story of a single samurai. In the korean Australian soldier fight all night run out of ammo in the morning the fight ends with them being surrounded by thousands of enemy bodies to a few men. Indian has a similar story. An Australian doctor who stayed in the hospital and fought until he died with many enemies badly around him. The one factor in all in each true story was they sacrificed themselves to protect their fellow soldiers. An army that never surrenders or runs is the hardest to beat. Most vets are better fighters as they have lost or controlled their fear allowing them to reason or plan and acted with persistence

[@marxtheenigma873]

Multiverse of super soldiers. Neat stuff. In my stories, I have a multiverse of these super soldier characters. In their own respective timelines they were kidnapped from their home world as a child, genetically altered and their magic abilities increased and enhanced. Their captors pulled in magic power from the dimension where magic originates, accidentally ripped off a still sentient piece of an exotic mattered being and it ended up getting stuck in the subjects mind. This resulted in the subject becoming uncontrollable, it escaped, and eventually regained consciousness. They are powerful and often obnoxious, but to the dismay of anyone that wants to get rid of them, the exotic being allows their minds to remain attached to the physical plane and then one of the genetic modifications allows them to regenerate their bodies with their mind and memories still intact. Could kidnap a bunch of them from the multiverse, but the ones I've got wouldn't take too kindly to being forcibly enlisted, and now you can't get rid of them. They can rift between universes too; once they've been to your reality, they can probably find their way back. Liked a hyperfixation character, and decided to make variations of him.

[@michaelchaney2336]

Funny how magic is always something spent instead of something avoided. If everything in reality has a cost, then so too does magic. Hyperfixation is just being willing to pay a cost, not efficiency or effectiveness.

[@R0G3RZ87]

Also the 42 million dollar man doesn't quite have the same ring too it

[@commanderacebenerschadron8587]

Picture this: Eight chemically enhanced Supersoldiers with neon powers flying down from a Cargo Plane fighting demon-like aliens with argon powers.

[@walterhaider869]

I had this idea of Dr jockey's serum to turn into Mr Hyde would be great for supersoldiers. You can give parents the choose to give their child's a gene edit that wouldn't effect their normal life but if the child takes the serum the gene edit turns on much like grasshoppers turning locust. And they can turn back so you don't have a bunch of steroided out veteran coming home. The only problem is you don't want the serum getting out of your control or you'll get all the gene edit child who turned to crime now being superpowered.

[@adamkonowol3543]

"Altered Carbon" by Morgan Richard is interesting in context of this topic because at some point main hero gains better, "mil-spec", body in addition to beaing copied. There is also "Old man's war" by John Scalzi wich moves even further and uses elderly, "expirienced by life", people and gives them unbeliveable bodies for duration of service. Edit. I just recalled reading Timothy Zahn "Kobra" cycle, really good show of political background.

[@cwilcoxart4017]

"For the Emperor!"

[@jhwheuer]

He protects

[@許進曾]

The emperor protects.

[@spencervance8484]

The emperor protects

[@kukaliemikalie8157]

I just want uncensored ChatGPT.

[@Valchrist1313]

I asked it to write me a story similar to "Guts" by Chuck Palahniuk, and it refused saying that it can be "triggering and harmful to some readers". "Creating a similar story, even with different characters and in a different setting , is not a respectful or appropriate request." along with a bunch of other sensitivity warnings and instructions. When I asked it why a successful author could write such a story, but it was inappropriate for me, ChatGPT broke.

[@User_5tjk42gj9]

But that would be racist.

[@Jasonmakesvideo]

Chuck P is my favorite author

[@kukaliemikalie8157]

@@User_5tjk42gj9 That's the problem with truth and facts.

[@kukaliemikalie8157]

@@Valchrist1313 Maybe the DAN fuction still works.

[@olejnik5165]

I was always wondering Why aren't they using camouflages on their soldiers wearing power armor? Imagine a Iron Dioxide camo on mars that would completly make sense, sure u can have thermal vision but what if we met cold blooded Aliens that aren't seen in Thermal imaging, or we develop such fabrics that will completly worn off the effect of our thermal signature, is it laziness? Is it because normal Olive green looks badass on a soldier in power armor(I think its cool lol)? I've seen some games that even make other aliens use orange as their armor color etc which is the most visilbe color for us sure it doesn't mean its for them but using only solid colors is really weird to me.

[@dragon12234]

In WH40k the recon troops and such often do wear Camo, but for the standard ones, they are generally too loud for stealth to really be an option. Not to mention that for the more alturistic chapters, it helps draw fire from their much more vulnerable mortal companions

[@LilFeralGangrel]

I created a setting that's heavily inspired by the Takeshi Kovacs books and the Expanse and in it super soldiers are just people with the right kinds of personalities that can help them withstand the conditioning required. Like this is a world where anyone can transfer to the body of a transhuman demigod, you need to have the right kind of mindset and knowledge to use those bodies effectively. i think people really underestimate how important mental fortitude is for just basic survival.

[@Jakob165]

26:00 All I can imagine is a general having tons of copies of themselves made, and then leading an army of themself. It arguably makes sense if you think about it, since who does anyone trust more than themself? You find an exceptional soldier, make 100s or 1000s of copies of them, then put them in command of all their copies. They know how they think, which presumably translates to knowing how their copies will think. This means they are able to know how their army will react in any given circumstance, and able to plan accordingly to maximize their potential in the field. Make their armies an extension of themself, quite literally. This could even be improved upon by giving the general the ability to tap into the minds of specific soldiers, say their commanders in the field to give orders directly to the troops or see how things are playing out in person. Essentially a networked hive-mind of a battalion. And if any of their copies get killed in the line of duty, their memories will be stored and uploaded to the commander. This would probably result in something like a kwisatz haderach like mind in the general since they have all the experiences of hundreds or thousands of themself to draw on, sort of like Duncan Idaho in dune who became a kwisatz haderach by living a ton of lives and remembering each one, being revived every time he died. I'd hazard to guess this is similar to how it works in 40k as well, since the geneseed of an astartes is harvested when they die, which contains all the genetic information, but also genetic memory of the soldier who perished, getting passed on down the line as a new astartes is created with that geneseed.

[@richybarrett]

There are many instances in history where quantity over quality has prevailed in battle.

[@nutyyyy]

And many instances where quality beat quantity.

[@f1b0nacc1sequence7]

If you define "Many" as "more than three", then I take your point. If you mean it as "a significant or dominant proportion of a given event sample", then I strongly disagree. You can certainly find a few cases, but it certainly isn't the way to bet. With that said, however, choosing to go the quality vs quantity route is a very expensive proposition...

[@StripedAssedApe]

It is, after all, the first rule of warfare

[@ferretfather2000]

I love the Bobiverse series!! Book 5 is being teased for this Year!!

[@SilverSidedSquirrel]

I will take this as approval for my "Officer Jenny" program.

[@rommdan2716]

And remember, if your enemy makes Space marines make them walk in a wooden floor/quick sand, they would sink to the bottom.

[@daralic2255]

The super obedient thing will backfire fast. Imagine how easy it would be to build cults or opposing movements if people were extra obedient. Getting someone’s undying loyalty will be a first come first serve affair.