Super Tune! The Lie-Nielsen No 4 - Part 3

[@nicholasouroumov8844]

Mr Linn, thank you for this amazing series of videos. Today I received in the mail a Juuma No.5 jack plane. I plan to apply some of the techniques you demonstrated here toward the Juuma. It doesn't have the attention to detail as my Lie Neilsen bronze smoother, but I think I can make it come close. All the best!

[@jimlinn]

@@nicholasouroumov8844 , thank you for that. You prompted me to look for Juuma. I found them on a German Site. I think you can make this come close to an LN. In fact, my techniques are best suited to these middle range tools. Let me know how you get on?

[@markluke8447]

Looks to me that Lie-Nielsen quality control is not as good as they want you to believe. Excellent work Mr. Linn

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks Mark, and my apologies for the delay in responding. It’s a fair point you make, but when I went on David Charlesworth’s Tool Tuning course in 2005, he made the case that if LN were to perfect every plane that went out the door, the cost would be prohibitive. I think it’s best to accept the reality that we have to do some work to get good performance, no matter how expensive the starting point. Thanks for the kind words at the end!

[@mohammadhaddadi2102]

Thank you so much Mr. Linn I have learned a lot from your videos, so I did from ( God bless him ) Divid Charlesworth. Please keep doing these wonderful and informative videos. Thank you again.

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thank you very much Mohammad; that’s a kind comment! I will keep going, don’t worry!

[@jimshaver898]

What a wonderful tutorial! I am sure to revisit some of my planes and employee your techniques, especially to the frog and chip breaker! Brilliant work

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks Jim! I’m glad you enjoyed it. I’m sure if you give it a go you won’t be disappointed!

[@anthonyseiver7000]

Thanks the clear and detailed explanation for tuning up a Lie-Neilsen plane. Inspired to tune up my LN no. 62 jack plane in a similar manner. It also satisfied me that some of my existing approaches such as flattening and polishing plane body soles and sides with sandpaper stuck to float glass and going through the grits was correct.

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks Anthony! Your right, there’s more than one way to achieve the same result. Yes, the block plane techniques should scale up nicely to the No 62. Let me know how you get on!

[@richardc6932]

An informative 3 part video for the OCD in an individual. You have just bought the dream of your life, a beautiful, top-of-the line extremely high priced Bentley and you can’t wait to get it home and disassemble it in order to improve on what the manufacturer hasn’t done for the money. After much fine tuning and polishing, it’s finally back together,so you take it for a drive and realize that a Bentley isn’t much better than it’s main competitor, that foreign brand, the 🇨🇦Veritas. Your wife instantly says “ the money you could have saved would have bought me a new pair of shoes”. But you have a big smile on your face, because it drives like a real car! My garage only holds one high priced vehicle and it’s the foreign brand. I have to say that I enjoyed your videos.🇨🇦👍👨‍🦳

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

😁 I like that! Of course, they’re both “foreign brands” to me. It’s the thing we like though isn’t it; even though we know the quality is there to begin with, we can’t resist tinkering… Thanks for the comment Richard, and thanks for watching. Much appreciated!

[@iamwhoiam4410]

Excellent and the best tutorial on the Lie Nielson no 4. I don't have that LN plane but do have all the other LN planes. My plans are to purchase that plane soon. My LN planes worked straight out of the box, and the only tuning to the 4 1/2 smoother and 5 1/2 jack I've had to do is soften the edges of the planes to stop the track marks. Thank you for taking the time to help others turn their planes.

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks for your support! I’m glad it’s of use. I agree, all the LNs work straight out of the box, but all these premium tools can be improved with a few hours work. Yes I had to soften the edges on my 5 1/2 too. Also the No 8 was cutting (or more accurately scraping) with the trailing edge of the mouth! Soon put a stop to that..

[@MartinPaulsen87]

That turned out absolutely stunning. I agree that it is worth all the work. You only have to do it once and then keep it maintained. In return you get to use something that is gorgeous and works completely optimal. Great job and thank you for sharing!

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks Martin!

[@ashcoworkshops]

Cracking video series mate. Really really enjoyed it and I’m desperate to have a go on the hand plane! Nice job 👍👍

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thank you very much for the kind comment! I’m glad the series was of use to you!

[@briantheprion]

For the ocd in us: the short threaded rod allows you to dial in the rod on the plane body so you can “time” or “clock” the brass nut.

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Hi Brian! I had to think about that for a moment; but I see what you mean. Yes it’s quite a common thing to “clock” slotted screws. All these little details help make the tool more satisfying to each of us.

[@seanevans1300]

Hi Mr Linn, got some Autosol&Peacock Wax after watching. Great Stuff.

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks Sean; you won’t regret it!

[@michaelpayne8102]

Nicely done, one item that I've checked on all my planes is the blade adjuster knob to the yoke interface. I've seen a lot of slop in the yoke that can be taken out with a squeeze using flat face parallel jaw pliers. Easy to get at with the frog removed from the plane (with the adjuster in place).

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

That’s interesting Michael. I must admit, having checked my other Lie-Nielsens, there are varying amounts of backlash in that particular system. I seem to have developed a habit of just living with it.

[@michaelpayne8102]

@@mrlinnsworkshop I’m not too concerned with the backlash so much as having poor interface to the yoke (one leg being fully captured the other only partially).

[@CabinetFramingUK]

Thanks again! Followed your procedure on a Nr 4 1/2 and a 7 Quangsheng (Woodriver). Especially with the added weight, and the smooth adjustments, they’re a joy to use. I don’t like to put down the average Stanley plane, but boy there’s no comparison

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

I agree MB. I’ve practiced on many old Stanleys and one can get them to work very well indeed, but yes there’s no comparison.

[@ZeeFrankensteel]

Nice series. I won't be doing anything to my Lie Nielsen's as you did, but really appreciate seeing what you did. Just a comment on the lever cap. I actually like the machining marks on the sides of it. It just reminds me about the manufacturing process. However I do understand also wanting a different approach for both cosmetics and functionality as seen in your 3 part series.

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thankyou for your comment and thanks for watching! That’s the spirit of our craft; each has their own take on things, but it’s great to see how others think about it!

[@SeanSchade]

Wow, your number 4 turned out amazing! I am doing this to mine!

[@philclennell]

Very articulate presentation - typical of the Scots - but do I have the patience to fine tune my Chinese offering? Time will tell!

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks for the comment Phil! Is it a Quangsheng? I’ve been looking for an excuse to get one and try it out. If it was me, I would go for it!

[@TheSMEAC]

Thanks a bunch! What I like best about this series is threefold: It’s accessible to beginners and veterans alike, one can apply as little or as much of this and improve any plane from new to old, and how you’re not in a rush with the pace at which you present. I don’t think I’ll take my L-N No°4 through all of this, but maybe the polishing of the frog bed to improve adjustment response, but I think I would have benefited from this series greatly when I first began with second hand baileys a few years ago. I’m glad that you agree the greatest gain was in the smooth adjustment under tension (and it didn’t escape me that you have your cap screw tighter than most folks do); the aesthetics were certainly pretty as well though too 😉. I’ve got a few items I must order this coming month from the UK anyway and I’ll be sure to have a jar of peacock polish added to it as well (I usually use Renaissance Monocrystaline Wax, but have now heard multiple guys like you sing it’s praises); the shipping to the US is so crazy already, that I try to double up when I can. My cousin and I (he’s in Luchars Sct and I in NW Tennessee US) kind of take orders for each other a few times a year and trade parcels. The best things I’ve gotten this last year from him was a collection of 25 molding planes (all users) I had purchased from a man in Nottinghamshire, my Toolery Park Scriber, and my lovely newest James Mursell travisher ❤. My cousin made out great though too; he got a full set of Narex Richter Chisels 1/8 thru 1-1/2, a L-N No°7, and a Grammercy saw vise this past year from me. BTW: Have you ever watched Brian Boggs video concerning his experiments regarding the grinding of an irons and how that in his opinion, the burr represents less than a sharp edge by fracturing and how he hones by pressing the edge forwards for that very reason? (I’ll email you the link if you haven’t seen it) I still sharpen the same way I did before, but he made a great argument for it; such so that I’ll certainly give it some thought when honing irons/cutters/edges at very crucial times. I can certainly see where it would play an important role with A2 steel; which is why I thought to ask you.

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks SMEAC. I agree at least one should smooth everything to do with the blade, to give it the best chance. I haven’t watched Brian Boggs, but I do know about him and his spoke shaves. I’m going to find the video you mention and have a look. I’ll report back…

[@musamor75]

Thank you so much Sir for these most captivating videos. You have taught us about exigency with humility. This is a sign of the Great. I am not yet lucky enough to own one of these, because I live in France, where prices are SMASHED up crazily (the highest taxed country on the planet earth- 297 taxes in all). I am however, a cabinet maker and furniture restorer with forty-odd years of practice. I do, unfortunately, have the very slightest reserve about a brass plane, because of it's relative lack of hardness. I'm sure nonetheless, that the extra weight must make it a joy to use. I was lead to believe that the classic cast iron No.4 1/2 is a more versatile tool to use. What's your take on that please? I praise you on your loving care in tuning up these beauties. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. Greetings from France. Ralph

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Greetings to France and you Ralph! Thank you for your comment; it makes me happy to have the support of a professional which I’m definitely not! It’s true that the bronze isn’t as hard as the iron. And, scratches appear on the sole after use, but scratches also appear on my iron LNs too. I think it’s just what happens. Before you mentioned it I didn’t think about it too much. I would think you’d have to work for years to see any ill effects, although now you’ve made me think that I should keep an eye on the flatness along the central corridor where the most wear takes place. I do like the high polish on other parts that one can achieve with relative ease compared to iron.

[@JKalpus]

Very useful and interesting videos. Thank you! Would you also kindly provide links for both the wax AND especially the magnetic grips.

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Hello John, thanks for the kind words. Here’s the link for the wax: www.skeltonsaws.co.uk. The magnetic grips are on Amazon. Look for Magswitch. They are much more expensive now than when I bought them around 15 years ago. Several have asked about these, and as they are so expensive, I’ll be showing an alternative method in a future video.

[@curtisbayley1235]

Hi there, just recently come across your blogs on KZbin. What a great series on the L/N No 4. And hopefully soon I'll will be doing this to my planes...! I so really enjoyed your thoughts on the late David Charlesworth. I Only known him through KZbin's. and missed the opportunity to do a Workshop with him. I wonder whether you are set up to carry on with his legacy ,and pass on his teachings..

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thank you for the kind words, Curtis; let us all know how you get on with yours. I don’t consider myself in any way qualified to run courses the way David did, if that’s what you mean. I do, however, fully buy in to his methodology and I hope I can keep that alive somehow.

[@derekcohen1000]

You need to do some research on preparing and setting up the chipbreaker. Ideally, the leading edge should be honed to 75-80 degrees, and set 0.3-0.5 mm behind the blade. I would add a little bend to the chipbreaker to increase spring and tension. The camber of the blade you honed is more typical of a jack plane than a smoother. It should be able to take full width shavings which taper off at the edges.

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks for the comment Derek. I have prepped the chipbreaker according to DC’s methods. I’ve sharpened mine to 30º, which makes it 75º relative to the sole. I presume that’s what you meant; 75º to 80º relative to the sole? Otherwise the chipbreaker bevel would be 120º to 125º relative to the sole. Yes I did make the camber a bit too fast; I’ve since corrected it.

[@whitexeno]

All I need now to make my life complete is to hear Mr. Linn pronounce purple burglar alarm

[@bryantretheway3809]

Thank you

[@peter-johnhummel7913]

Hi Tim, firstly I would like to thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences about the late Mr Charlesworth. I was and am a huge admirer of his work and teachings and was deeply saddened by his passing . However, I was never able to meet him let alone spend time with him in his workshop. So thank you for sharing. I found your series on the plane tune up very interesting and was wondering if you have based it on your time with David and are the techniques you have shown, the ones that you learnt from him. On watching his DVDs, his planes always look immaculate. Did he go through the same processes himself to fettle his planes.

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Peter, thanks for the comment! Sorry for the delay; mithered in Extension build deadlines so videos paused for a wee while, but not long. Yes, I learned the techniques and concepts from David. The first course I went on was his Tool Tuning course in 2005. Although others - of note Mike Dunbar - were also advocating some fettling, David took it the highest level. He was always experimenting, and his testing procedures were meticulous. In 2018, we talked about the concept of “marginal gains”, something that comes from Formula One, and the British Olympic Cycling Team! He always encouraged me to experiment, even if it meant something didn’t work. One can always replace parts, but equally one might discover something useful.

[@peter-johnhummel7913]

Hi Jim, my apologies for getting your name wrong in the first place, Thank you so much for your reply. Thank you again for sharing your experience and your experiences with David. I will be employing your techniques with my own Lie Nielsen planes. Best wishes, PJ @@mrlinnsworkshop

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

@peter-johnhummel7913 - Don’t worry about it! Thanks for the comments!

[@bryantretheway3809]

Mr. Linn, do you have a make and model of you Mag-locks? I can't seem to find anything like it here in the states. Thank you!

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks Bryan; they’re called MagSwitch. You could try TayTools?

[@marvistawoodworks7624]

As always, I learn a lot from you about technique and products. Though I can't find it right now, I believe you showed a 40 grit diamond stone. Haven't been able to find one anywhere. Did I mishear or do you know where I can get one?

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

I’ve got a 140 grit Atoma stone? Maybe that’s what you meant. I don’t think there’s such a thing as a 40 grit diamond stone. There’s 40 grit Aluminium Oxide paper available which is good for hand grinding.

[@ismanismun5736]

❤

[@MrBillUp]

What is the name of the rubber mat you are using Mr Linn?

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks Chris. It’s made by a Company called Dycem, but there are others on Amazon. Here’s the Dycem link: dycem-ns.com.

[@MrBillUp]

@@mrlinnsworkshop Thank you Sir. This is exactly what I needed, and having seen first hand how well they work now, its the obvious choice. All the best.

[@ared18t]

What is the balck whetstone?

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks for watching! I’m using wet and dry paper stuck to a granite reference plate.

[@anderslind43]

Whitney size of the granite referenser stone?

[@anderslind43]

What is the size of the granit referense stone?

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Hello Anders; thanks for asking. It’s 310mm long, 235mm wide and 55mm thick.

[@rossanctuary5238]

Now it works as well as my $28 Spear & Jackson #4 plane 😅

[@alanlepore5649]

The plane looks beautiful if you want to put it on a shelf. Lets see the bottom of the plane after using. I’m sure the wood has scratched the bottom already. Also it’s working like a scrub plane. Definitely resharpen the blade and get it straight. This plane should be making whisper thin full width and length shavings. Outcome of the functionality doesn’t seem worth the effort. Would like to see a follow up video after seeing the iron re-sharpened.

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks Alan; I do keep it on a shelf where I can see it and it’s easy to grab when I need it. There’s witness marks on the base, which is of course, normal and to be expected. The blade is taking whisper thin shavings as shown in the video. Also shown in the video was that I may have put too fast a camber on the blade; this will be gradually slowed as I resharpen . It was well worth the effort to bring it to such a high level of functionality as you say. Thanks for the comment!

[@wandamccartney5731]

Wait.. aren’t lie Nielsen planes already come tuned?

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks for your comment; much appreciated. No they don’t. No planes do. Except maybe one by Karl Holtey. None even come with a sharp blade. At the very least you need to sharpen the blade before first use.

[@wandamccartney5731]

@ That is very interesting, because I thought this was the reason Lie Nielsen planes cost so much, because they come already tuned and ready to use out of the box? Guess not. Thank you so much

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Unfortunately not. They cost so much because the basic quality is so good that with just sharpening the blade it will work very well. David Charlesworth used to say that when you buy a new tool, consider it to be merely a “Tool Like Object” until you’ve examined it and prepped it for work. I asked Deneb Puchalski of LN the same question you asked. He said that to prep their tools to the finest standard it would take so much hand work that the cost would be prohibitive. But, as I said, merely sharpening the blade will give you good work for ever. Thanks for the conversation!

[@official-peterroth]

Can I pay you to do all of this to my plane?

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

😂 I’m sure you’ll be fine!

[@kelvinsparks4651]

To be honest for the price of these planes I'd expect them to be at this level straight out of the box.

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

It’s a good point Kelvin. Deneb Puchalski of Lie Nielsen visited Axminster Warrington a few years ago and I asked him why they cost so much. He said that when you consider the infrastructure required to run a tool company, plus all the other costs, he thinks they’re actually quite cheap. If you consider the time I spent on “SuperTuning” the No4, if they were to do that, the cost would be nearing Holtey levels. Also, the LNs really do work very well straight out the box - as long as you at least fettle the blade. There’s other options though; Clifton’s No4 is 68% of the cost of a Lie-Nielsen and Quangsheng are 38%. All three are bedrock style.

[@kelvinsparks4651]

@@mrlinnsworkshop that I understand but to the end user especially as hobbyist like me it's such a big outlay that I'd expect perfection from the start. Sadly I'm not in the position to be able to afford a Ln no matter how long i dream so I happily fettle my good old Stanley's which I paid peanuts for and restored lol 😂

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

I agree Kelvin, and I’ve still got my old Stanleys. In fact, one of my ideas for a video is how to modify one to take a thicker after market blade. Sometimes I forget that my previous occupation allowed me the means to acquire the LNs!

[@MontyBates]

Who makes the 2500 grit roll you used?

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks Monty - it’s made by Hermes. I got mine from Axminster Power Tools. They still sell some; around £10 for 2.5m.

[@williamn01]

How do you find the weight of the plane Jim? I prefer my original bedrock no4 to my bronze bodied ,just feels a bit weighty to me . Did you put David's smoother to use yet ?

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Hi William; I like it. I like heavy planes. Making sure the sole is smooth and waxed and the blade is always sharp means one only has to push. The weight keeps everything engaged.

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

I’ve had a look at David’s smoother, but it’s in pristine condition, so I don’t want to try it until I’m ready to do a video on it. The good news is I’ve found the article he wrote about making it in his first book, so should be an interesting video.

[@norincurcan8827]

Designed? I thought it was a copy after the Stanley's design. Most definitely improved but still

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks for the comment! You’re correct; words are hard

[@norincurcan8827]

@@mrlinnsworkshop I would love one of Lie Nielsen's planes, they definitely make quality tools 👍

[@richarddunmore4767]

Finally - a complete DC/LN blade sharpening video on KZbin. And I have seen them all! Should have done DC's course but never had the time! Watched DC's LN DVD's that create some confusion with projection distances and honing angles! What did DC scribe on his sharpened blades and what did " F C B" mean? Not well edited back in 2006! Blade Cambering and Back Flattening is missing from Denab's LN Sharpening videos, and referred back to DC's LN DVD's! So, a 25 degree primary bevel, and then a 33 / 35 degree secondary bevel? Why not a 30 degree for the secondary bevel and cambering, or was this 33 degree a convenient projection distance to measure a blade in an eclipse honing guide with a ruler, or a DC foible? DC was one of the few Teachers to deal with back flattening of blades and chisels, by keeping the cutting edge on and off the stone creating a micro hollow behind the edge instead of creating a convex belly and rounded over edge, using both length-ways up and down and on and off the stone movements, as well as across-ways on and off the stone movements at right angles, to counteract convex bellying. Mathew at Workshop heaven has gone further and added to DC's technique and sells a thin strip of Atoma diamonds: www.workshopheaven.com/atoma-diamond-hollowing-strip-140/ (video), to create a minute hollow in the blade back to obtain flatness at the cutting edge, before using the ruler trick for plane blades, or flattening the back of a chisel by creating a hollow to produce a perfectly flat sharp edge, instead of a rounded cutting edge or back bevel. A narrow 2cm wide self-adhesive strip of 100 micron micro finishing film, or medium grit abrasive also works well. I also use a Veritas Honing Guide and added thin strips of your Hermes "Blue Self/Ad fine abrasive" stuck inside the top and bottom clamps that gives extra grip to secure blades and stop any movement in the guide. Not many serious reviews for this Veritas Top Clamping honing guide, except this criticism for top clamping designs. I have also added the other bits of this Veritas system such as the Side Clamping Honing Guide and Roller, and the Camber Roller, and Short Blade holder. Would love to see an independent total shoot out between the Lie Neilson "Eclipse" Honing system, versus the Veritas Honing system and what blades they can and can't sharpen! Great inspiring video showing how to create the Ultimately tuned and fettled LN No 4 Plane, with a perfectly sharpened blade the David Charlesworth way!

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks for the good comment Richard! Very much appreciated; some good info in there. I think you asked a question about why DLC settled on a 33º secondary bevel and a 35º micro bevel. I remember him explaining on the Tool Tuning course in 2005 that he arrived at that after much experimentation. It’s a good angles set that can be used for all blades of all steels, including mortise chisels. So, one only has to remember three angles. The Veritas system makes this easy as one can use a hole near the 35º yellow position to get 33º, then use the offset cam to get the micro bevel. This is what I like about their system. I chose this after having the golden opportunity to have David to myself for a week in 2018. We tried out all the available systems to see which I preferred. During that week he did stress that some steels need different angles for special jobs, but the 25º/33º/35º is a good general purpose set. Of note is that he used a 20º primary bevel on his personal chisels, including mortise chisels. This helps reduce the “wedging” effect. All my chisels have a 20º primary bevel, as do my block plane blades, but are still honed at 33º and polished at 35º. David scribed projections in millimetres on his blades for use with the eclipse style guides. Like the idea of sticking paper on the Veritas for more grip. I don’t have a problem with my standard clamp, but I have had problems with slippage on my mortise chisel clamp. I’m going to try it. Thanks again!

[@johnoerter2883]

Xclnt! Thank you

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thank you too!

[@WilliamMurphy-d8s]

I have done that to a Montgomery Wards plane, I also have a Lie, Wards works best.

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks for the comment William; I’ve never heard of Montgomery Wards. Online search only turns up a bankrupt company. However, I’m glad you’ve got their plane working the way you like it.

[@steveward53]

Mine performed much better than that straight from the box , well done for wasting your time so effectively .....

[@mrlinnsworkshop]

Thanks for watching and commenting, Steve. Yes, I’ve got wasting time down to a fine art.