Wrapping Your Mind Around Armor Class and Hit Points

[@SupergeekMike]

What other piece of D&D history should Arctivus Gleem talk about next time Dscryb sponsors the channel? Thanks so much to Dscryb for sponsoring this video! Visit dscryb.com/supergeek and use the code SUPERGEEK at checkout to get 10% off of your first subscription payment. dscryb.com/supergeek

[@bobsterclause342]

Well we have anime. We also have dnd lore If you notices, mistra decided to make the weave into a system that was basically an operating system and esceintially gamified their reality. You have slots, calculated by the computer, or weave. SO when you gain levels in a class... well, that class is real thing made in the weave or with other supporting features. once upon a time, no one else had access to paladin class but helm, and only humans could be paladins. This means that helm had a mod and that class is now part of the system. How do you explain the fact that everyone else made the class and eveyon'es class is the same and got updated? well you know mistra loves developement of magic and stuff. You honsestly think someone like her wouldn't just modify anny attempts to make a super special classs or modification? She absolutely would be like no, you succesfully gained access to the normal like eveyone else class but accessed by your upgrade. There is only one person who does osmehting like let clerics cast wizard spells, and that is the dude who mounted her and he became a paradox... something that doesn't exist but does, or sommething that rather than not existing but does, just exists as something because it just does. So like, yeah, it makes sense how the smartes wizard who wrecked everything can still grant wizardry to clerics he's like thae ultimate form of irony. He tries to become a false god b posessing a god, everything fllls appart and he dies not becoming a god, then he becomes a not god, but congradulations you are a god, but you aren't. Chances are he's one of the few things that don't get altered when he becomes a god, or in other words his paradox fomr stays, if he becomes a god, some of the issues that come with it might not matter too much.

[@MangoJuiceTwinkie]

I think Starfinder by Paizo have a good system for tracking hit points; you have two separate 'health bars', one for HP (which does increase as you level, but increases at a fairly slow rate), and another for Stamina (which increases each time you level, but at a higher rate than HP), that represents the character avoiding/blocking or letting their armor's shields 'soak-up' the damage. Stamina is deducted first, and is a lot easier to recover, only needing a 10-minute rest to recuperate and catch a breather, whereas HP lost recovers wayyy slower and usually requires medical treatment or mystical healing to recover. Feels like a good way to split the difference narratively and mechanically :)

[@nicholashodges201]

One of the few things I like about White Wolf games is HP and subdual HP. Most damage is subdual, ie it won't kill you, but it makes it difficult to keep fighting as they drop. It also makes it easier to lose actual HP from otherwise subdual hits. Only issue is that it really only works if your total HP pool stays in the lower double digits

[@robertdavis5693]

The 3.5 mechanics based "Star Wars The Roleplaying" game from the late 90's early aughts used the same system. It's my personal favorite hybrid rule that could be adopted into 5e as a representation of something similar. Your health started out as a base, based off your class/race. And only went up by however much your con style bonus was. (avg. 2 points per level.) But our stamina/vitality increased at a much higher rate. Your stamina would be able to be replenished very quickly, after a rest, but your health, would take much longer to regain if lost. And usually required something extra like a bacta tank. Given that Paizo called in StarFinder instead of Pathfinder, I can tell where they got the inspiration for it. Still my favorite way to handle hit points in a table top game though.

[@Stephen-Fox]

Similarly, I think one of the things that I'd say GURPS does well is splitting the various wishy washy abstractions that make up D&D hp. HP, there, is strictly your meat. Everything else that seems to be bundled together into D&D hp is various other things - Your three forms of active defence, luck as a mechanic if you take whatever advantage that is, even stuff like armor reducing damage rather than your AC partly being representative of your armor's ability to soak damage, and so forth. If you get hit, you get hit. IF you would get hit but your active defence prevented you from getting hit, we all know exactly what happened - you doded it, you parried it, or you blocked it depending on which you did. If you got hit but then take 0 damage from the blow because the damage dice rolled below your armor, your armor got in the way. (I swear my teeth would be less on edge with D&D hp if different parts of the system, at least in 5e, didn't seem to be approaching it from different assumptions about what it represented. I don't mind an abstracted conception of health, which ultimately HP is always going to be, and I play a ton of rules light games which take the opposite approach to GURPS, but I kind of need the abstraction to be consistent across the system rather than... Fuzzy... And changing depending on if we're taking the damage or healing it and how we're healing it, exactly)

[@familykletch5156]

@@robertdavis5693 I love this system as well. I think it started with some older house-rule systems back in the 2E era, and was also formalized in Unearth Arcana in 3E. Note also 1) crits, rather than being doubled, simply bypass stamina and get right to the meat, giving a much increased level of danger, 2) used an "armor as DR" system to buff low-level minions, 3) actually had minions (in a way) before 4E, and 4) effectively used stamina as a mana pool for force users (i.e. spellcasting). This is the one basket of features I'd love to see formalized as a modern system, preferably with a grim, OSR-like feel. I've tried using both "vitality & wounds" and "armor as DR" in several campaigns, usually with good and heroic results. I've also tried dropping wounds and just saying that crits and damage after stamina is Con damage.

[@MySqueezingArm]

Don't forget stuff like 'The swing misses you, but you rolled your ankle trying to dodge it. 8 Hit points'

[@autographedcat]

“Because there’s no way an adventurer could actually survive a 600 foot fall onto rocks…” Not even if she turns into a goldfish at the last minute?!? :) Great video! Congrats on the shoutout; you deserve it!”

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

I still think that the kinetic energy of a goldfish hitting at terminal velocity wouldn’t kill you, but i respect the ruling 😂

[@SupergeekMike]

Thank you!!

[@bludfyre]

@@johnathanrhoades7751 It wouldn't kill a person... but it would kill a goldfish. Just like the amount of kinetic energy that would kill you wouldn't kill an elephant. Arguably, if the goldfish slowed down like a paratrooper who's T-10d just opened, it could have taken 1 point of damage at that point (opening shock is a jolt) and changed back to Keyleth at that point. Or it would have taken a while to "slow down" from the momentum Keyleth had, and fallen at above a goldfish's terminal velocity.

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

@@bludfyre yup. Definitely would kill the goldfish, I would have just done the carry-over damage differently, but it’s not my table, he telegraphed the danger, and it was incredibly memorable! The lovely things you get to think about in D&D😁

[@telarr9164]

I mean if you can turn into a goldfish you're basically a god right ?😜❤

[@davidmorgan6896]

Hit points and AC were among the reasons I left D&D behind at First Edition. I much prefer Runequest (or BRP or Call of Cthulhu) where your HP are based on Size and Con and are, basically fixed. A character can Dodge or Parry to avoid being hit. If they are hit, then they'd better hope that their armour holds - armour absorbs damage. If the blow gets through then it causes damage. Most battlefield weapons can take an arm, or head, off with one blow. As characters get better, their Dodge and Parry skills bright go up making it harder to hit them. All of this seems more realistic. It does take a bit more effort, but you compensate by having fewer players; I believe that the role-playing is drowned out by having more than three or four PCs anyway.

[@calvinwarlick8533]

One of my problems with saying HP aren't t meat points is healing magic. Almost everything that restores HP is flavored as healing, Cure Wounds, Healing Spirit, Heal, that kind of thing. No Restore Luck or Refill Stamina.

[@CONTINGENCY_sys]

HP measures more like "Resistance to tangible carry over damage". Once "resistance pool" is emptied or restored it is measured. Emptied you have 3 successes before 3 failures to sustain life, the foundational element that is actually HP. That Gygaxian3 mechanic. The measure is to resist death at this point. When you restore hp or replenish the pool of resistance, you are resting or replacing your combat presence and effectiveness. As your effectiveness reduces you begin to lessen your ability to function in the space. This representation is only one way to approach the mechanical nature. I reworked it completely and reformulated the entire concept. Scrapping the military variability of effectiveness for other mechanical measures as supportive only not primary methods of measure. The 1hp, just a flesh wound, and etc created less "immersion" and more "misinterpretation" of what was happening or capable. HP work better as actual measure of physical resistance with clear assignment to actual functional capability and options. Players make different decisions when measures are positioned as such. More emphasis placed where it is needed. My favorite measure. No wrong way to do HP or measure of success / fail thresholds. Just realize the entire space and what you need it to represent and make sure it reflects how it is needed to be used to how it is written for use. A misstep could detract from the design. I use combination of things like critical threshold, momentum, and vitality to measure these structures. Players HP are not pooled but measured and have relevance to all capabilities and actions of the player/character combination. As they reduce everything is effected. Players/Characters can make the ultimate sacrifice in actual mechanical approach not just story driven. Have fun with whatever you do. It is a game after all.

[@Korica]

The biggest problem with HP is that it functions in an entirely binary way, and this is true in most games, not just 5E. If your HP is between 1% and 100%, you are fine. Doesn’t matter how high or low your current HP is. You are operating at full efficiency. But if your HP falls to 0%, you suddenly flip. Not only are you not fine, you aren’t even operating any more. You are unconscious, helpless, dying. Complain about injury systems all you want, but at least they allow for some actual nuance, states in between “Fine” and “Dead”.

[@danielbeshers1689]

Didn't really get into the origin of armor class, but that also comes from naval wargaming. The best protected ships had "first class armor", the next best "second class armor", and so on. That's why in early editions, low AC was better.

[@Keovar]

That's cool, I hadn't seen that before.

[@FrostSpike]

And, apparently, Hit Points were the number of 14" shell hits it would take to sink the vessel!

[@shawnglade790]

That is wild. Pretty cool

[@woomod2445]

@@FrostSpike Speffically for D&D the chanmail rules one hit would drop a normal man, but the fantastic creatures rules had creatures that "Fought as X men" the hero(lvl4 fighter) and super hero(lvl8 fighter) fighting as well 4 and 8 men respectively.

[@FrostSpike]

@@woomod2445 Yes, I was talking specifically about naval wargaming specs. If an 14" explosive shell lands next to an 8th level fighter they might still have some trouble staying on their feet. 🙂

[@MegaBendex]

Flavour is totally free and I always use the context of the situation to inform my descriptions of what happens during combat. What I mean is, if a character of low HP misses an attack, it is easy to describe the pain overtaking them and the arms feeling heavy as they lose blood. If a character on low hit points scores a critical hit, it is easy to describe the surge of adrenaline and battling against burning limbs to deliver a singular strike! There doesn't need to be rules to make you weaker when you're on low HP or anything like that, just use the dice rolls as added context based on how things are going.

[@BuddhaMonkey7]

I also think saying that you can fight just as well at one hit point undervalues the psychological and strategic impact that being at low health has on a player. Even if mechanically you can do all the same things you could at full health, what you're more likely to actually do is take cover, drink a healing potion, or take some other defensive move. Combine that, plus the fact that you've probably burned some limited resources by that point, plus the flavor element, and you see why "You can fight just as well at one hit point" is an idea that only comes up in the abstract: It hardly ever feels that way in actual gameplay.

[@jeremymullens7167]

1HD is a normal person. That’s 1d6. Weapons deal 1d6 damage. Every extra hit die is super human. 6 damage is enough to kill a normal person. In the abstraction formula the hit comes at the last 6.

[@ehisey]

I like telling the players they are not "super human". What makes them a hero is fighting despite the fact it is probably going to kill them.

[@derrinerrow4369]

If I ever dm I would also try to describe enemy attacks as well based on the context of the attack the enemy uses and the kind of protection the target player has. For example a bandit shoots an arrow at the player and misses if it was a heavily armored character, I'd have the arrow bounce off them harmlessly but if it's someone with light or no armor I'd describe the player dodging the arrow as it whizzes past them. If some big monster was swinging something heavy a missed attack could be really close but make in impact crater against the floor or wall, and so on. even if it miss you can flavour it so that even if your enemy misses, you can still showcase things like how close it was to hitting or how strong the attack could have been if it had landed.

[@carso1500]

@@ehisey i do tell them they are súper human, but still mortal and more than able to die I know that a lot of people like their games to be "realistic" (whatever that means in a game with dragons and dungeons) or for the story to be gritty and hey for each their own, but DnD as a system is designed to be a power fantasy of sorts, there are better systems out there for that kind of storytelling like warhammer (fantasy) that has stuff like injuries codified, in DnD a normal person has like 5 hp and your characters can end up with 200, they aint normal humans

[@DanielM7979]

Congrats on getting mentioned by Matt Colville on his most recent video!

[@SupergeekMike]

Thank you!! It’s so wild 😁

[@PalleRasmussen]

Praised actually.

[@BryanCmpbll]

In a lot of ways you're filling a niche Matt has sort of abdicated. Your vids remind me of his RTG vids, which he makes less of now as he evolves into his final form of RPG publisher. Not a dig against him, but I miss his content like this. Thanks for bringing it back in a thoughtful way!

[@SupergeekMike]

@@BryanCmpbll Aww thank you, that's so kind!

[@AnathemaMysticalcel]

It has to be the beards.

[@charlesmayes7020]

Thank you for referencing Daredevil. That is generally how I approach the concept of damage and player characters, but didn't have a strong or concrete approach to explaining it or communicating it effectively in game. I think this is going to help a lot with my game going forward. Another good touchstone for this would be the Dresden Files, I think.

[@Keovar]

In Critical Role, especially the early episodes of season one, it seems like Matt describes damage to the mouth a lot. It made me wonder if that was an area of focus because they’re voice actors.

[@Noobie2k7]

Also might explain why he loves a good toothy maw.

[@danielbeshers1689]

So there actually is a Game of Thrones TTRPG, and its damage rules are pretty brutal. One good hit can kill most characters and likely permanently cripple or disfigure anyone who survives, but those good hits are against a different, small pool of... health points, I think? There's also a version of hit points that represents stamina, willpower, resilience, etc.

[@nickbestvater8635]

i explained hit points to someone in terms of boxing. The average person likely won't handle being punched more than once. additionally a boxer hitting the average person would likely knock the unconcous. alternatively a compentent and practiced boxer can withstand multiple hits and multiple hits from a compitant combattant. AC aditionally counters and increases the durbaility of adventures. and example of this is football where the increased ac reduces the injury and longeveity of these people. additionally the class mechanics add to this fighers increased resiliance indicate their expernce with being hit, barbarians use addrenaline to increase their willingness to take abuse. long story short the more exprenced people become with violcnce and injury the better they handle these situations literlally leveling up.

[@noahtaylor262]

this was always my thought process. a pit fighter swinging a sword would kill a commoner, hurt a lvl 2 fighter and scratch a 18th lvl fighter (if it even hits at all). thats why HP scales on levels the more experience your adventures get the better the are at taking hits or minimizing the wounds you'd get.

[@xaqbarnitz4937]

A character taking damage in 5E is like shooting John Wick

[@manueltorresart2345]

First, I love you mentioned Brian David Gilbert, man I miss his Unraveled videos a lot. Second, the idea of hit points makes a lot more sense when you've seen so many shonen animes haha.

[@hawkname1234]

You've made it Mike! Once you're mentioned by Colville, you're officially a big time D&D KZbinr!

[@SupergeekMike]

😁😁😁🤯

[@andrewshandle]

I do wish that they'd change fall damage though, it goes from being heroic to silly when a level 5 player can fall off a 100 foot wall, get up, brush themselves off and walk away.

[@ehisey]

That has been fixed. And it gets pretty lethal with scaling. Every 10ft becomes non linear, so 10ft us 1d, 20 ft is 3d, 40 ft is 7d. That makes 100ft falls basicly lethal.

[@andrewshandle]

@@ehisey so where has this been fixed? I did a quick check of the One D&D playtests and didn't see any changes, and there's nothing on D&D beyond in any 5e book that changes the d6 per 10ft with 20d6 max. That being said, this does sound a bit familiar, so maybe I've seen it before.

[@ehisey]

@Andrew i came to this video out of a 1e forum. Forgot this was multi edition. It was correct in a Dragon or Outdoor adventures. Not surprised one is not doing it, 5e and One are super player protective.

[@pedrogarcia8706]

Maybe I'm an "entitled player" but if I built a barbarian with crazy high con specifically to tank a lot of damage, and I was raging, for example, and fell off a sheer cliff and the DM said "I'm gonna ignore damage rules, no one should survive a fall this high so you just die" I'd probably leave the table

[@davidmorgan6896]

As a GM, if you built a character like that, I'd probably not give you a seat in the first place.

[@pedrogarcia8706]

@@davidmorgan6896 if I built a high con barbarian?

[@davidmorgan6896]

@@pedrogarcia8706 if you built a character purely optimized for tactical combat.

[@ellysemilton1309]

Do remember that certain effects (Death Ward for example) call out that sometimes things will just instantly kill someone regardless of your hit points. You should definitely discuss with your DM what kinds of interactions would result in instant death (especially given it could be a strategy to use against enemies), preferably in session 0.

[@pedrogarcia8706]

@@ellysemilton1309 right but in 5e falling damage is explicitly not one of those things

[@gcvrsa]

I've said for years that the fundamental problem of RPG system design is finding the balance of simulation to abstraction that works best for your particular preferences. The more simulationism you introduce into a game, the more "realistic" it becomes, but this inevitably comes at the cost of complexity. There is a point at which one can be "overthinking" game design. The problem with Hit Points in D&D isn't limited to 5E; it's a problem that has existed from the very beginnings of the game, because D&D ties hit points to class level, and the real problem here is the class and level based character development system. As characters gain levels, they gain power. And so, if the antagonists also gain power proportionally, then the game should have a relatively static difficulty, adjusted for level, but the numbers involved just get bigger. Hit Points are an abstraction that can't be adequately explained by any kind of attempt at introducing more realism into a justification. Just accept the abstraction for what it is. This is why my Tapestry RPG System gets rid of classes, entirely, and features a skills-based character development system. Life Points in Tapestry are based on the PC's ability scores, and base LP doesn't increase or decrease unless the PC's ability scores change for some reason. Since they are derived by formula from three of the PC's nine ability scores ((Constitution/1 + Strength/2 + Willpower/3) *2), and each ability score has a median about about 15 (range 6d4, or 6-24), the median PC will have only about 55 LP ((15 + 7.5 + 5)*2), no matter if they are a novice or a veteran.

[@Paigeofmaces]

My thoughts on Hit points are that they could be a good abstraction on how physically and mentally demanding fights are, more like stress points. Each hit takes something out of you, and you start to get weaker as your points go down. How hard the hit is also matters, like a death of 1000 cuts compared to one huge hit.

[@mkang8782]

I completely agree that 4E had some really great things it brought to the table. As to describing hits/misses, I do similar to you: if the attack would have landed without the target's armor, then the attack strikes, but ineffectively.

[@Noobie2k7]

It's why I liked the separation between Touch AC and Flat Footed AC. It allowed you to have a really easy to look at idea whether an attack missed completely or hit you but just didn't do damage.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

I think it's also important to include effects on the battle, whether they factor into attack or AC or not, as well as the battlefield itself. Maybe a miss is a miss, maybe a miss is a swing catching the nearby wall by mistake, or maybe a miss is the monster shielding its eyes from the flash of the fireball that just impacted over there.

[@Trethar512]

I like to think of HP/leveling up like shares in a company. A punch to a low-level character, who has little experience in how to take or avoid or lessen a hit, will take a large chunk of what's available. But someone like Bruce Lee knows how to take a punch by twisting just right or flexing/relaxing certain muscles can minimize how much of themselves that punch affects. So it's like higher characters have had their overall health broken into smaller chunks that get taken, like a company splitting their stocks. A lvl 1 wizard represents a company with 6 shares of stock available, whereas a lvl 20 barbarian may represent a company with 300 shares of stock.

[@skyeshi3570]

For me, It comes down to normal attacks are light scratches and bruises, where as crits or masive attacks that make the player go oh shit might be the ones that give scars to a character. Alot of it will come down to the group and how they play.

[@violetnightmare9216]

The Hobbit movies (and partially the Lord of the Rings movies), also known as "Why doesn't Legolas just win the entire war by himself?"

[@ErokowXiyze]

Holy shit, you just inspired how my game does death saves. HP is light damage... but each damage after you're at 0 hits your speed or con score, and once they're both at 0, you die outright. Recovering 2 con or 5ft of movement takes a week... so if you're missing all 30ft (6 weeks) and 4 con, it'll take you 2 months to recover. This covers stuff like sprained ankles and messed up shoulders REALLY well. And crits might just auto deal 1 damage to the enemy's scores.

[@baie_nuuskierig]

Firefly ref! I actually like the scarring at 0 HP, I think I may look at that or the bloodied condition. It would definitely also work in terms of group cohesion. If you see the scars of your party members, where you had to heal them, you would be much more protective.

[@tonysladky8925]

I can't stop thinking about the "Scar when you go unconscious" system as an inverted "How do you want to do this?" DM: The Orc Warchief hits you for... * rolls dice * 16 slashing damage. Player: I'm unconscious. DM: Okay. Assuming you get healing, you're going to have a scar. Tell us about it.

[@rodshop5897]

That is indeed a good idea. I'm going to use that in my next session!

[@Treebohr]

I'd be interested to see how Matt Colville mentioning you, in his Castle Amber video, affects your views.

[@swxqt6826]

I’ve always thought of hit points as magically being more durable than normal. Even though it makes no sense in physics, it is, to me, the only explanation for why one can tank an axe to the face while sleeping.

[@Mop-Tollsy]

My main problem is the ballooning HP pools. My fix for a system project was Str + Con = HP for most creatures. Also fixes the weird "commoners have d4 HP" idea that gets thrown around.

[@hawkname1234]

THAT's interesting. So 20 hp for most people, but potentially up around 30ish for heroes and less for old ladies? That's definitely actual physical meat hp. Maybe add +1 per level? And then the die of your weapon would actually matter!

[@Mop-Tollsy]

@John Pettus thanks, I thought it was pretty clever. Average 20. I have characters starting with 60 ATT points to distribute between the 6 with a starting cap of 15. Instead of leveling, when they get 10 or so XP they get another ATT point. It's a roll under ATT system.

[@kelpiekit4002]

I feel death saving throws are an important part of views on hit points. 7th sea has a system of dramatic wounds in their health system that death saving throws could be like somewhat. If an assassin is targeting them while they sleep or a big villain is holding a knife against their throat or something else suitable you could say "This isn't about your hit points. This is directly against your death saving throws even though you're not at zero". If it is something like the slit throat they might have to roll death saving throws on their turn for the remaining point while alive and active unless they get magical healing immediately.

[@matthewwinans3068]

I really, really like this idea. I might have to "borrow" this.....

[@frankb3347]

Personally I do not care for any level, class, and hit point based systems. Games like Cyberpunk 2020 had great systems for more realistic combat. Problem with those is if characters aren't smart and careful they'll die just like real life humans would. Which doesn't feed into the superhuman power fantasy of D&D.

[@CurtMarker]

Mostly joking...but I do kinda like the Hit Point = Farmer theory: A hero's hit points represent their ability to put up with the bullshit and danger that comes along with being an adventurer. Once a character rolls and fails their death saves, they retire from the adventuring lifestyle and leave to go be a farmer and have a peaceful life.

[@GamerTagCaptCluel3ss]

Mr. Artivus Gleem, you cracked me up. If Gygax is a time traveler, the Sandal of Gygax just got a big buff lol

[@GamerTagCaptCluel3ss]

I was happy to see your vid shouted(?) out during Matt Colville’s video. [When worlds collide…]

[@SupergeekMike]

Thank you!

[@Solmead]

This is why I love Rolemaster’s attack system where it isn’t the hits that matter, it’s the special critical hits that do the big damage. In it you roll an attack subtract the defense, then the higher you roll it could just do hit point damage or it can cause leveled Crits based on how high that total is

[@PalleRasmussen]

YES! THIS! ROLEMASTER ❤️ Since 1987.

[@kelvinrichardson5324]

That’s part of why I GM’d Rolemaster for my AD&D 2e group back in the day. They all ended up preferring it too.

[@wpasieczny]

We used to play Rolemaster rules in a Greyhawk campaign.

[@wolftwinbladed7921]

I do enjoy the videos that you have been releasing. Having discovered your channel recently, it's been quite fun to watch for certain. This topic is a fun one for certain as depending on the narrative style or setting HP can be described in numerous ways, and it can be fun to justify it from game to game. This is a good video and it's fun to see how damage is justified in games like this. Starfinder is a fun one with a pool of stamina points for hero's that acts as a shield for proper hit points, that stamina is much easier to recover than hit points, with hit points taking longer to heal naturally, or requiring spells to fix, with Mutants and Masterminds taking another approach with toughness checks where eventually you may accumulate enough penalties to fail and take real damage. Anyway, good and solid video overall, and I look forward to the next one

[@FrostSpike]

In a narrative game like Cypher, it's quite possible to describe the damage taken as something caused by an apparent miss from the opponent. For example, "You shoot your pistol at the foul creature. Your shots narrowly miss but, alarmed, it jumps backwards into the cabinet of wine bottles which shatter and rain shards of razor sharp glass onto it. It takes 2 points of damage."

[@Heritage367]

I really love your 'describe your scar' concept for going below 0hp - very cool! If I'm being honest, I actually prefer RPGs were damage has actual rules effects. Ars Magica, Legend of the Five Rings and Savage Worlds all have great damage systems, but fewer people want to play them ☹️

[@colbyboucher6391]

My favorite RPG *by far* is Mythras and it's partially because it's the sanest take on damage I've ever seen. Armor functions as armor (platemail is strong AF), everyone gets locational HP, and avoiding hits is mostly achieved by actively parrying attacks. Shields let you passively protect yourself which is *also* strong AF. You get some Luck points for re-rolls. It strikes a perfect balance where getting stabbed sucks about as much as you'd expect it to, but you'll hardly ever just insta-die and you've got enough mitigation for cool heroic fights to happen. Not to mention the "special effects" system means most fights end with someone on the floor surrendering, because they *would* die if they didn't. Despite all that, somehow it's not too overbearing the way some games are. In practice it runs quick once you know what you're doing.

[@gamelairtim]

I have been running a Dresden Files RPG lately. The equivalent of hp goes away at the end of a fight and is essentially inconsequential but physical damage. However, a player can opt for more lasting injuries, which can allow you to stay on your feet but impair your abilities. In 5e, I like the idea that any damage that doesn’t drop you is actually a graze or similar.

[@Duhad8]

What you described is very close to how I run D&D combat/injuries. I tend to lean on any result on an attack that's less ten 10 is the character swinging wildly and missing, anything miss over that (being blocked by AC) is some sort of block or dodge by character with how close the roll was determining how cool/desperate the defense was. IE. 11 = "Your blade strikes him, but barely scratches his armor." vs 19 vs 20ac, "A split second before your strike would have hit its mark, his own blade flashes to meet it! He grits his teeth and with an effort pushes you back!" Then for injuries its the same sort of deal, if you hit, but the damage is not high (in preposition to the enemies or even players health total) I'll describe it as a scratch or that the hit barely made it through the armor or that they mostly dodged, but got clipped. And if its a solid hit, I'll give it a little bloody detail and make it clear that hurt allot! I also use my own version of the bloody system where enemies take penalties to fighting when at low hit points and will obviously be looking to retreat, surrender or go all out, dropping the penalties, but making it clear they are ready to die in this battle. Light hit: "Your blade cuts through her armor and draws a line of red across her chest, but does not go deep enough to seriously hurt her. Her smug smile turns to a scowl as she focuses on you." Heavy hit: "Your ax hits squarely into her side, driving the breath from her as she staggers, eyes widening as she suddenly realizes just how badly she is losing." Then when low health something like: "She's slowing down as she loses blood and so can't quiet evade the mace which clips the side of her head, knocking her helmet lose and causing her to stumble. She is visibly frightened and stares at you, clearly trying to gauge if you'll have mercy if she throws down her arms." or "The mace cracks the side of her head and sends her reeling, but when she regains her footing, you can see her eyes blaze with new found hatred! She knows she is dying, she knows she can't win... But she also knows she's taking one of you with her!" Important Note: I have enemies retreat or surrender semi frequently (as in the last few badly injured enemies in a fight will more often then not stick around to fit it out to the bitter end if they are not mindless or ideologically motivated), but that's because my players are heroic, they don't like killing unnecessarily, they have sympathy for monsters defending there homes or poor people turning to banditry out of out of desperation and its only the truly evil antagonists (in a world where no monster races have 'always evil' next to their names) get the whole, "If you surrender, its just going to mean we get to execute you dramatically!" Treatment. That would not work with every group and has been a bad fit in the past for groups I've run for that used surrendering enemies to be truly sadistic and edgy so like... Not something that works for everyone.

[@Comicsluvr]

Two points I wish to make (great video, by the way): 1) GURPS did this very well because it was a point-based system instead of a level system. You can become very skilled and very powerful, and yet 1-2 lucky hits can still bring you down. 2) In a book series I recently read called The Man Who Battled Monsters, the heroes were described as changing physically as they became more powerful. Eventually, they were barely Human (or whatever race they were), and more physical manifestations of the raw magic present in the world. Thinking about it this way is easier for me to justify the idea that a person can go to sleep one night and wake the next morning with more HP or fully heal after being near death.

[@darkness_visible7227]

I tend to use the Bloodied threshold - sub 50% hp - as a loose guideline for describing hits. At least with martial weapons and the like. Above that, you're trading on stamina. A miss my be parried or deflected off a shield. A hit may also hit the shield, but it'll connect with force and freakin sting. Or someone with a greatsword beating down over and over against someone's guard. They're not getting hit, but they wont be able to keep that sword arm up forever. Against someone with less armour, the enemy may land a shallow cut above their eye. It won't hurt much, but the blood is going to obscure their vision. That sort of thing. Sub 50%, thats when things start getting nastier. That shield hit isn't just going to rattled you, it's going to badly bruise your arm if not fracture something. Now we're looking at the knife in Mal's shoulder, or Charlie Cox getting hooked. These injuries are showing now; you're not just being worn down you're being hurt. And if it brings you below zero, yeah, that one is going to be particularly nasty. A crit, or a particularly vicious hit (mechanically, but also narratively) may override this. - We're mostly talking PCs and other humanoids here of course. If you're fighting a dragon, a hit that gets through it's scales probably is going to cause some kind of injury from the get go. It's just not that damaging compared to the size of it. You're not wearing someone down in a duel at that point, you're tearing down a giant with death fo 100 cuts (or stabs, or bashes)

[@telarr9164]

Yeah that's kinda how I describe it too :)

[@aforest2802]

The shift from Chainmail to D&D (3LBBs) was from 'hit to kill' to 'hit points'. As you said, they are an abstraction and it follows they are ambiguous, i.e. could be physical or metaphysical as Gygax describes in the 1e DMG. To your point about your heroes feeling like normal people or superheroes, one need only look to the DMG 1e, as Gygax states in the first edition DMG a "telling blow" addresses the "last handful of hit points" for normal men. Further, weapons are scaled to hit points for normal men rather than higher level characters like such level titles suggest, e.g. heroes (4th level) and superheroes (8th level). The "to hit" die and the damage die are lesser abstractions which are part of the concept of melee. An armored character may absorb the impact of a strike, while an unarmored character may avoid the same strike regardless of whether or not damage dice were involved or not. The abstraction serves the referee's narrative. Extraneous die rolls, like death saves, etc. merely interfere with the abstraction, interrupt immersion and further drive players into obsessing over the numbers rather than continuing to roleplay.

[@franzgriffle6063]

Star Wars based on 3rd edition DnD used vitality and wounds. Vitality was the “luck” based hp while wounds was you con score and could be hit via critical hits or with a lack of vitality. Game got hard when you had to survive a 6d6 lightsaber strike in your wounds lol. I enjoy your channel, can’t wait to see more.

[@frenstcht]

Still not sure where the confusion is coming from. You can't have it both ways: If you want hit points, you have to accept a level of abstraction; if you want accuracy, then you don't get to have hit points. Seriously, have two players sword fight. Does the attacking player, if armed with a longsword, say that she wants to perform a _Zwerchhau_ or a fendente? If the other player is armed with an arming sword & buckler, do they announce they're attacking with a stab-knock? As the fight draws on, does that player announce that he's switching to a Walpurgis stance and thereby gain a stamina buff for using that guard? Do players who want accuracy in damage roll a series of hundreds of d20s to get the steel to spark the flint just right, followed by a dexterity roll for getting the tinder to glow when trying to light a candle in a dungeon? Charles Dickens, a person who grew up using flint & tinder to light candles, said it takes a half hour to succeed at that. If they roll a natural 1, do they cut half the meat off a finger with the flint and find said finger unusable for 4d12 days? When someone starts getting fussy about hit points, the appropriate response is to say, "Chill, or we'll start asking you how you go to the bathroom with your armor on. I'll be rolling saving throws for _that_ behind my DM screen, and chafing and infection damage will affect _all_ of your abilities and rolls."

[@RaigPrime]

For AD&D we use the PC's last 3HPs as their health, everything down to that point is getting buffeted, banged, fatigue from dodging, etc. But at 3HPs the PC sustains "damage", cuts, abrasions, etc. At 0, uncon. If in a single attack round the PC is reduced below -3HPs, the character is dead. HPs increase with level, therefore HPs aren't a reflection of how many cuts you can take, rather, it's how much you can avoid due to experience before getting hurt. For us, we still use the -10HPs for death (unless, per above, if during a single attack the PC is reduced past -3HPs), and will gradually bleed. If stabilizedthey will still be uncon for another 1d6 turns (up to 1 hour) during which the party needs to keep them safe. Even after that, they'll be weak as a kitten for a week, even if they've been healed (pg. 82 AD&D 1e DMG).

[@devincornwall6468]

Hackmaster has a Threshold of Pain rule. You ToP is 30% of your total hp +1% per level (+2% for martial classes). Converting it to 5E, If a hit exceeds your ToP, you make a d20 save vs 1/2 Con score. If you roll is equal or less that half your Con, you shrug off the pain. If you fail, you drop in pain for a number of rounds equal to how much you missed the roll by. If you roll a 20, you fall unconscious for 5d6 minutes. This state can only be distinguished from death by a successful medicine roll (DM determined). While it might seem harsh, their system also has opposed roll combat (defenders roll their defense, it isn't static.) Also the armor absorbs damage rather than just prevents hits.

[@michaelbenson5677]

I imagine hit points as being capacity for focus in spite of distraction. Loosing hit points does mean taking damage, just not in a way that's life-threatening: weapon damage causes painful or inhibiting wounds, acid damage causes ongoing burning and itchiness where you got hit, cold and poison causes numbness, fire and lightning burns you, thunder and psychic disorients and may cause lack of balance or alertness, and necrotic, radiant, and force damage can be characterized any number of ways. As you loose hit points and accumulate these injuries, you get more shaken and slow to react until you make the critical mistake that allows an enemy to strike true and take you down. This makes sense of both magical healing in that all HP recovery is literally healing damaged tissue, and of temporary HP: Having a detailed strategy in mind (Inspiring Leader), getting a calorie boost before combat (Gourmand/Chef), and having a magical field absorb energy from attacks (spells, artillerist cannon, etc.) all make it easier to keep focus on what you need to do even when dealing with pain and other distracting factors. This works for some enemies as well (especially humanoids), though I think the traditional concept of HP loss works better for large monsters.

[@TheUnluckyEverydude]

I know different games are different but I love the way Pathfinder 2e does it. In PF, HP is pretty straightforward representative of how much damage a person can take and AC is whatever skills or armor are keeping them from being hit. However, with PF, its a mechanic that characters absolutely get scarred and wounded. It takes *days* to heal back to full from 2 or 3 hp, even at level 1. If you go down, you take the wounded condition, which makes it easier for you to die if you go down again, but also GMs are encouraged to give that character a permanent reminder of that fall.

[@josephhawk9940]

The current spell casting system isn't truly Vancian. That would be the system used from BECMI - 3.X. I hated having to memorize magic missile multiple times so I didn't run out.

[@Guy_With_A_Laser]

I was watching an older video from the Dungeon Dudes that sort of references this topic in terms of thinking about character power. To paraphrase: A gritty fantasy like Game of Thrones (early seasons at least), is essentially a Tier 1 game, where most of the characters are probably at level 1 (or not even that), with a smattering of level 2-4s among the more elite, and only a tiny fraction breaking the level 5 barrier, who warriors of incredible power or terrifying sorcery. They argue that basically no person in the real world would ever reach level 3-4. Tier 2 characters are more like your standard heroic fantasy characters that you'd see in Lord of the Rings or whatnot, who have superhuman ability both to take and dish out damage. Tier 3 are Avengers class heroes, essentially so far above the power level of everyday people that they are practically gods, the types who are called in to deal with existential threats to the entire planet, or even beyond. Tier 4 are top-of-the-class superheroes, or, probably better yet, the top tier of anime heroes, the Gokus and Saitamas and the like, for whom accidentally destroying the planet with their powers is a potential concern. Put in that context, I think it's fine to just accept that characters, especially above Tier 1, aren't just regular people, and being able to take multiple wounds that would be lethal to a lesser person and just shrug them off kind of goes with the territory. And if you want a game where players' injuries and damage are realistic, it's much easier to pull off at low level.

[@telarr9164]

If you've ever done boxing or sparring you'll soon see exactly why constitution (stamina) is just as important for dodging as dexterity (agility). It's very tiring to be ducking and weaving while keeping your hands up to defend yourself- and that's without a 3kg sword in your hand

[@meander112]

Since the 5e PHB describes someone at half of their HP as "visibly injured" I use the "Injured" descriptor when I would have used "Bloodied" in 4e.

[@alexfirefly1956]

I would tell my players of high level if they take hit that should realistically kill them like your Wizard did when the ship crashed into him, that they narrate me how they managed to survive that, even if it’s just barely. Your Wizard for example could have cast a protective spell just in the last moment that managed to shield them from most of the impact, even though it was still massively painful.

[@jacobs483]

The only reason we have to have this conversation at all is that the game mechanics don’t support any given hit point interpretation very well. You can spend all day at 1 hit point or ten and mechanically there is no difference. Below 1, you are injured badly enough that you may die in less then a minute without help. but then returning only a single hit point means you are fully functional. Heroic characters don’t pass out any time they get seriously injured. Gritty survivalists try desperately to avoid being injured, because injury often mean real problems for them. 5e really wants this to be our problem when it really didn’t have to be.

[@coolgreenbug7551]

I think it needs to be mixed and matched depending on context and damage type. A monster will just take every hit you give it until it dies, but a villain fencing you would be more stamina based with misses being nonchalant dodges and hits being scratches or desperate blocks.

[@Chrosteellium]

I kind of like to think of HP as a mix of all of these things. It's your ability to avoid lethal damage. An attacker might be aiming for your heart with their dagger but you manage to dodge enough that they stab into your side instead.

[@juniorthelichch.]

In a campaign I love to run in my homebrew setting (I love reusing it and seeing what insanity people do) there's always an optional side boss hidden away in a yuan-ti temple the players have to sneak out of. Many groups just miss it, because they never bother to explore the parts of the temple that give them the clues he's there, but one group found him and decided since they out numbered him greatly, to try and quickly take him down. This is a low level encounter, I expect the players to be about level 2, maybe 3 when we get there so the 'boss' is really just, a level 2 sorcerer with some of my NPC class shenangians piled on, and a reduced number of spell slots. This was in PF1, and at the time I heavily limited the number of spells the boy could use (he had an item that made his DC's -slightly- harder that the wizard took after the encounter, and actually went out of his way to study spells that it would work with that was cool) and one thing I didn't plan for was the monk running in and getting immediately crit with the boss's one decent damaging spell, Acid Touch (or something like that) for like 8d4 damage. Taking the monk from full health to almost actually instant death. The paladin managed to get in and lay on hands, but the wound of the Acid burned handprint on the Oread's ebony chest would become a key defining feature of his character over the campaign and something I've always loved. A lot of my players (especially in 5e) have had a 'magical healing leaves no scars' mentality but I always felt that sometimes, some damage, some experiences, they leave a mark. Thankfully this player was totally into that.

[@DocEonChannel]

"Indiana Jones rules" is pretty good! My go-to has for a long time been to call it "Die Hard damage". In the first movie, John McClane looks pretty darn beat up... but it doesn't affect his effectiveness in any way.

[@TheWackyWorkbench]

As a monk player, I flavor taking damage not as me getting hit all the time, but getting worn down and lowering my guard through exhaustion

[@BlueNemo3]

Your description of the Masks health system reminded me of the way the Avatar Legends RPG does so I looked it up and sure enough, same publishers lol I really appreciate that they go for something different than a standard "this is how many hits you can take before you are unconscious" style in a lot of other RPGs

[@sortehuse]

My approach to how to interpret hit points is to not worry too much about it.

[@SupergeekMike]

Sounds like an approach that works for you! 😁

[@hinkrakagaming5532]

An interesting angle on the concept of only a "killing blow" being a severe injury also matches up well with the concept of resting one long rest and being at max HP.

[@mallenwho]

I like the idea that hitting a "bloodied" threshold leads to taking a point of exhaustion until healed back past that threshold. Exhaustion is a really good model for losing mental focus AND getting physically rattled mid battle. My preferred threshold is "below 20HP, or half your Max, whichever is lower". This means that low level players start to feel the impact of hits very quickly during battle, while high level characters can shrug off most damage unaffected until the last one or two impacts before death. When they're on death's door, they will hurt in the same way they used to hurt after a single strike as a younger adventurer.

[@dragonkamehameha]

I've actually taken an approach to HP where I mix both aspects of the luck, stamina, and hardiness into account when describing damage. The way I get both myself and my players accustomed to the idea that different attacks will be described differently depending on the situation is to call HP- Health & Posture. If the attack that hit was one of many that will happen in combat, I usually describe it by saying the characters had to physically exert themselves to dodge or parry the incoming blow and not something that took little effort on their part, in essence the attack damaged their Posture; however when it comes to big hits like different damage types or big numbers, I take the approach of describing the attack as one that is physically hurting them, doing damage to their Health Also, crits in my game don't do double damage to players, but instead deal a long-term injury. I found a nice pdf where there's 3d6 tables for every damage type causing different unique injuries, it's pretty cool. More often than not, it lands on scars for my players but the two most impactful ones where when they dropped a symbolic dagger to the depths of Sharn and an internal injury that they must take medicine for or be unable to use all 3 action types in one turn (action, bonus action, movement)

[@Lurklen]

I do the same regarding crits (though they do both, double damage and a long term injury), with mine I use a table from another game, and the injuries scale with a severity roll. They're capped at 60% when you're above 0 hp, and can't go below 60% when you're at 0 (I didn't want people dropping dead at full hp, and when they're dying I didn't want it to be from a broken toe) I'm curious about that table though, as I've never got around to actually writing down the difference between damage types, and just kind of do it ad hoc.

[@dragonkamehameha]

@@Lurklen look up Maxwell's Malicious Maladies, that's the name of the pdf. Maybe not every damage type will make perfect sense at your table, but if the situation arises, you can always continue to improvise lol

[@Lurklen]

@@dragonkamehameha Cool, thanks!

[@BraveryBeyond]

Great episode on a topic of discussion the wider community needs to keep having. Great shout outs to the pulp adventure genre which is where D&D has its roots. The one thing I'd like to expand upon is the idea of where AC stops and HP begins. For me, this has to do with narrating the amount of control a PC has over a given attack. Did you easily brush that sword blow aside, or can you feel the reverberation of the impact numbing your hand? Did you deftly roll out of the way, or did the blow push you forward and you broke a more serious fall by rolling into it? Bloodied was an excellent condition and I think is still the gold standard of when you should start incorporating small cuts, scratches, and bruises to your narration of the fight. Finally come the killing blows, which I feel people are much to tame with and often lean on non-vital areas like arms, legs, and sides to make "convincing" hits. Humans can be both incredibly fragile and amazingly resilient given the circumstances. Boromir from the LotR movies is the quintessential example of fighting on your last HP and continuing to roll critical successes on your death saving rolls to keep protecting your allies. Is it really that unrealistic for a sudden adrenaline surge to snap someone back from the brink of death to push for survival? I think we're often times simplifying HP too much to the ability to take physical punishment and not considering its narrative implications as an abstracted mix of stamina to push forward, luck to attain the improbable, and the training to find the impossibly thin line of action to survive. Mix them in whatever amounts you want, but do understand that D&D characters are pulp adventure heroes that _will_ find the most improbable ways to live another day in the relentlessly harsh world of adventuring.

[@wesleyalana]

Armor class is tricky. What if you are pounding on a stone golem? The creature isn’t “blocking” your blows …it acts is absorbing the damage. I remember one role playing system that denoted the legendary aspects of Dragons armor and the thicket it got as the beast aged,So for every age the dragon reduced 1 point of damage. Thus a lvl 8 aged dragon would absorb the first 8 points of every hit(like in the movies)

[@wesleyalana]

If one goes with this then you see knights in armor getting hit all through the battle but the armor absorbs the blows(like in real history) A true hit/miss in this case would be anything that either hit/miss the most basic armor class

[@wesleyalana]

My take. In a very old edition of Dragon magazine they discussed this. They noted a war horse could obviously take more physical punishment than a mighty warrior… so why did the warrior have more hit points? It was a combination of luck, experience, skill etc to minimize the damage

[@wesleyalana]

I always use the 1st lvl hp as the amount needed to kill a helpless character. Maybe a dagger will kill you or perhaps not if your a beast of a human

[@zeldablizzard]

In relation to the ad: my campaign setting is heavily inspired by Greece, so it felt wrong to call that iron bull a gorgon and ALL gorgons medusas. We do refer to that creature as a lybian beast. My table also self-polices the "Heracles not Hercules because that's Roman" policy. We're super fun at parties.

[@dodobarthel2249]

Do you have a Roman npc that regularly messes up the pc's names?

[@chapwolff]

Thanks for this video it is actually incredibly helpful to me. I am trying to get a D&D group going at a school and one of the concerns of the principle is combat. I have been thinking about how to rationalize damage, and this video really helped coalesce into an actual idea. Also, agreed about the Hobbit movies....now I'm sad.

[@SupergeekMike]

I’m so glad this video helped!

[@sad_hedgehog]

i have never thought about changing how hp works this is so cool :0

[@jamesblount3143]

Constitution works for dodging a blow because it factors into endurance. A character with high Con will have a higher HP and will be able to dodge or pull off a last minute party. It indicates how long an enemy can keep you on the ropes before you make a mistake. Personally I use a combo of descriptions. Early HP loss is often getting winded from a weapon making contact with armor but not directly breaching the armor. Critical hits or damage after you drop below 50% is where damage becomes more serious.

[@jamesblount3143]

*parry

[@shinmalestat9272]

Non-Lethal damage: Am I a joke to you?

[@NLANDXP]

There are a couple things I think you missed. Which is the fact that magical healing exists in the DND. Also, most people are wearing armor so they still take a hit, but the armor protects them a bit, it's like if someone clubs you while your are wearing a helmet, the temporary damage is slight only. Maybe a Bruse. Then when you've take a number of those beatings, blood is finally drawn. Down hill from there. BUT DND I think does suppose that ALL of the creatures are more sturdy then our world. By a bit that is.

[@Arkylie]

My favorite mechanic so far is Starfinder/Starjammer's Health and Stamina mechanic, where the stamina acts as a kind of buffer, and is easily refilled, while getting hurt in your actual Hit Points means you're into the danger zone and will need stronger interventions (can't just rest a bit and be fine). I'm hoping to find a way to make use of this in other systems, because I really like the idea of distinguishing the levels of "doing fine" vs. "oh crap actually taking real damage here, guys this is getting serious!" Also reminds me how *7 Days to Die* has a stamina mechanic where you start with (IIRC) 100 and when you hit 50 you start to breathe really hard, showing that you're winded and will soon run out of stamina (which can be a big deal when you're fleeing from zombie dogs or a giant bear!). But as you raise your stamina cap by leveling, the "starting to pant" sound... stays at 50% of your cap. So it starts in at 60, or 70, or 80. And it BUGS THE HELL OUT OF ME. Because getting a better stamina pool *should* mean that I don't have to worry about being low on stamina until much later. And yeah, okay, if I now have 120 max stamina and it kicks in at 60 then I don't hear it until I've lost 60 stamina (10 more than previously), which is technically an improvement, but it *feels like* it's punishing me for gaining levels. It should stick at 50, meaning I can go 70 points before I start to pant. Similarly, I feel like when you have a health pool, and your health pool increases as you level, then you shouldn't wind up getting a worse result than you would earlier. E.g. if you started with 10 HP and getting to 5 HP gave you a debuff (because you were at half HP), then later on if you have 50 HP and get to 25 HP and get the same sort of debuff... it feels like hey, you could actually do better on less HP earlier in the game. I've never seen this mechanic at the table but I've been starting to think about how to arrange such debuffs (and I'll be looking up this Bloodied condition you mentioned), because yeah, it feels super weird that a person at 1 HP should be fully as capable as a person at 100 HP. So I hope I can figure out some mechanics that make sense and feel satisfyingly dramatic without feeling cheap or irritating.

[@Drudenfusz]

I feel like people got around in recent years and discover that D&D 4e was not just bad. For my own system design that I am working one, I go with a very narrative approach, combat cannot even last long enough hit point attrition in the first place. Thus fights feel more like hit and run scenarios. Which feel realistic to me, even though realism was not my goal when I designed that system.

[@davidmorgan6896]

There were boxing matches, back in the 19th century, that lasted for hours, but most armed fights will be quick. One good blow and the victim is bleeding, internally or externally, and likely in shock.

[@Xackadee]

I've been thinking recently that for Death Saving Throws, practically a topic in itself, maybe the character doesn't suffer a lethal blow to hit 0HP but just takes a nasty hit that causes them to go into shock. That way if they stabilise, they remain calm enough to endure the shock and/or get lucky and just pass out. If they don't stabilise, they die of that shock. And of course, if an enemy strikes them during this process, _that's_ when the character suffers the lethal hit that could and likely will cause them to die.

[@Tysto]

In my OSR game, I say you are bloodied at half hit points. Below 10 hit points, you are injured and make attacks and physical checks at disadvantage. At zero hit points, you are seriously injured and must roll for hit location; if you survive, you'll have a scar there. A hit to the head or torso can mean you're unconscious. You must make a save or die. If you weren't reduced to zero hp, a short rest returns 1 hp per level (which you can do after each combat), and an uninterrupted long rest returns 2 hp per level. If you were reduced to zero hp, you heal at 1 hp per week until you get to 10 hp, unless you get magical healing.

[@airdragon11studios]

Great vid! Made me think way more on this. I want to allow hitpoint representation depending on character to character. Meaning when hit they describe the dmg they took. So as a dm I would say: "he lifts his axe and drives it down for 30 dmg." They would say how they hit or of they narrowly dodge (cut clothes or cut cheek, arm ect.) Meaning it's more of a back and forth of descriptions. Also would mean players can describe their intention on an attack and I can react description wise as the enemy.

[@steveyoungwork]

Really good video! Well Done!

[@TakeWalker]

In a superhero RPG, where you can have people tossing fireballs around or shooting people with guns, I tend to think of hit points, with the gun example especially, as being every bit as much about mental fortitude as physical. You got that bullet *real* close to the villain's head! He may be able to keep fighting, but he's not going to be recovering from that any time soon. Because otherwise it's, "How is this completely normal guy whose mech suit we destroyed absorbing multiple shotgun blasts at close range?"

[@tawnyclawx]

In my current game, we started off as level 0 villagers, and we decided what kind of fitting styles we prefer by what we picked up to defend ourselves with. I had a pitchfork and a barrel top, and later on i would swap to a shield and sword. One of the defining moments from the early sessions, even just before we gained our first level, we had undead chasing us through some catacombs, and for multiple turns I was consistently rolling terrible for attacks, and to justify that, this skeleton had actively targeted my shoulder multiple times over 3 rounds. My character lost use in that arm and had to swap hands for his weapon. Multiple sessions go by without me addressing that wound, and without us fully healing, and when we do take a look, I've lost full use in that arm, and its gone very bad (avoiding description). We had to do multiple medicine checks to avoid me losing my whole arm to infection, and because i didn't feel like going to the soon to be artificer for a robot arm. We saved the rest of my arm, and through paladin healing (dumping my lay on hands into my shoulder every long rest) and meeting my patron, it was restored fully so that i could get back to my usual sword and board.

[@Michael-cf9cj]

I love the idea of scars and other long-lasting effects of damage, particularly critical damage like a character being dropped to zero hit points. These effects could be dramatically different depending on the source of the damage as well as the type of damage. Along these lines, could these effects include mental effects as well? What would the permanent effects of psychic damage even look like?

[@whyukraine]

My preference is the WhiteWolf system. You have 10 health points, and losing more than 1 or 2 is a serious problem, taking days or weeks to recover without magic.

[@bensollenberger9948]

From one overthinking gamer to another, I must say this video warmed my heart. Not literally, with fire damage, of course - just figuratively.

[@BertthecatDevourerofDeities]

Hp in 5e is based on experience. characters get more when they level up. Plus, it is based on fighting ability and toughness warriors have more hp than wizards. It's a complete abstraction. To hit an enemy is only determined by armour and natural dexterity. hp explains why its so difficult to kill the Godlike 20th level warrior even if they're naked. The last 25% of hp on characters is a good place for actual damage to start. At 10th level, a barbarian lord can pull out arrows or shrug off spears impaling them. Just not at first level. 😉🤗

[@bradygroves988]

2 ways of approaching yhis I have really liked: 1. In the West End Games D6 system, everyone has the same number of "hit points" (6) and what varies is the ability dodge attacks and absorb damage. When you get hit you roll to see if your armor absorbs the blow and, if not, the amount that the damage roll exceeds the armor roll determines the damage (1 point for 1-6, 2 points for 7-12, etc) 2. In Lord of the Rings Online you don't have hit points you have "morale points". As you take hits you're demoralized, and when your morale hits 0 you're "defeated" and have to retreat rather than killed.

[@ghostfaceknuts]

It's a challenge making an AC/HP concept that is more realistic without complicating the game further. I run 3.5e so it's already a fairly mathy game. But, to this approach I could of course run combat out of a spreadsheet that does the work for me. I'm playing around with the idea that basic armor has no AC value (unless it magically provides luck or dex). AC would always represent whether you get hit, and is a combo of luck (base 10 DC), Dexterity, dodging, and fighting defensively. This makes combat expertise an important feat. Armor on the other hand would provide DR vs types of damage. Padded = DR/S&P, Chain = DR/B&P, Plate = DR/B. Or something like that. This requires a bit of reworking armor values. I'm going to allow stacking of armor types (i.e plate over padded gambeson, and mail in the joints), but when you stack (and only when you stack) it limits dexterity. I know it's not for everyone, and I'm still working on the balance 😅

[@saltysergeant4284]

I always took high hp as kind of a dodge. Like, the wizard has 20 hp, so a dagger stab could be near fatal. A barbarian has 80 hp, so a dagger cut is like a scratch. If it's a backstab, then it's a legit serious stab wound, but a normal roll wouldn't be a deep cut, just a scratch.

[@Theeoldmann]

You're making me miss how brutal 2e d&d was, especially if you add in Monte Cooke's critical hits & misses. Personally, I use the rule of 9's from assessing burn percentage. Critical threatens & then gets confirmed, then roll d100 for location 100 means 2 spots, 0-36 is a leg or other leg, 37-54 torso front, 55-72 torso back, 73-90 is a arm or other arm, 91-99 is head, then apply debuffs to location that makes sense. Move or attack penalties to severe trauma wounds to stat damage based on severity of hit. Light severity being up to -20hp to heavy severity being over -50hp from one attack. I still use the old golden question "Is your character wearing a helmet?".

[@capnahayes]

I'm so glad I play rpgs from Free League, where there are MUCH better damage and Crits. Dragonbane is a far superior game. I will also submit that Savage Worlds has a far superior system that doesn't even have Hit Points!

[@elthairselanim9177]

As a old DM, I always considered that HP/AC combo in DnD s*cks but as we are playing this game and not GURPS, rolemaster or WHFRPG where combats are more deadly, I assume this approach is the good one. HP reflects a combinaison of combat experience, luck that makes you dodge or limit the impacts of a landing blow until you reach you own limits. Just to speed up, I use a critical table for natural 20 (and 1) that reduces HP faster and when reaching 20% HP left you start rolling with disavantage to simulate fatigue and scratches. Scars are left when you reach minus 0 HP except very powerful magic healing

[@whyukraine]

Basically D&D is a broken game and needs to be completely revise for some basic sense of realism. Many better game systems have done so.

[@scottwalker6947]

I've always liked the system used in one of WOTCs old D20 Star Wars RPGS. Characters had HP, like we are all used to, but they also had vitality points that equaled their Con score (IIRC),and they never changed. You could have a 5th level charter with 50 HP, but only 10 Vitality points. Regular hits were applied to HP, Crits to VP. So, a Crit could always outright kill a character no matter what level they were.

[@knighttemplaroftentacult7123]

I use the HP in my games this way: your HP is not your HEALTH, but your ability to withstand pain and physical strain. Basically - your "stamina". And you have only one "health" point, that is gone, when you aren't able to hold in fight anymore. Depended on HOW you are put down, you may be dead outright or KO'd. And, yes, I use my own system and, yes, some things that aim themselves at the characters will outright kill them no matter what level of "stamina" they have. No one should survive the troll's club to the head, for example. My system ain't pulling punches and players know it. I also encourage the players to be overprepared for any fight they MIGHT get into, so the scouting ahead and preparations are crucial, and ambushes are DEADLY.

[@EvilLobsterKing]

I like to play big tanky characters and I am ofren describing how much of my own blood is splashed across my body. Definitely the kind of damage that 8 hours of rest wouldnt heal, but I like the idea that these high con characters can really take a beating, and stay on their feet. Spit out a moutfull of their own blood and brace for the next onslaught. My favoruite class is barbarian, and I often play other classes like barbarians.

[@jamesnabors3643]

I like the way HP works in Traveller. Your three physical stats ARE your hit points. Armor reduces damage. Damage reduces your stats, which reduces your effectiveness in combat. Two stats at zero knock you out. Three kill you. People are squishy. Good armor is expensive. Good weapons have high armor penetration. Traveller: You haven't lived until you have died during character creation.