SUPREME COMMANDER EPIC #59 On Setons

[@samg.5165]

Nathan after losing 2 mantises and a medusa: WELL, GG

[@Squiddy00]

I'd feel bad for Nathan if he didn't spend the entire game whining and calling GG while his team was ahead.

[@Shenaldrac]

Sore losers are terrible, yeah.

[@neoxela00]

Seems super toxic, mocking other team / players.. Yeah these sorta people are definitly undesirable in the community.

[@R3in_Ch]

he must have a bad day or bad life so he insert his negativity on someone else

[@R3in_Ch]

@@neoxela00 reminded me of Maverick (another toxic supcom faf player)

[@OneBiasedOpinion]

You learn to shrug and move on. Coming from League of Legends, I can safely say these guys still aren’t nearly as toxic as what I’m used to.

[@dagroth123]

to stack subs like that, use the Shift+G command after giving the move order: it changes the [move to formation] order to [move all units to point]. subs have no-clip for units.

[@VexingRaven]

It's just G. Shift-G is only needed if you're queueing up multiple orders.

[@udirt]

*wide eyes* why did i never find that...

[@tuahsakato17]

Yudi/shinobu's decision making skill and his humorous calm personality is so stellar

[@mhjmstultiens]

1:01:00 NUKE BARRAGE OF THE CENTURY :D This game is so awesome, just like Gyle. ;)

[@jkutyna]

No. kzbin.info/www/bejne/l37Od52inpeAqNk was the nuke barrage of the century. This game was the epic come from behind win when you were SURE that team 1 had the victory.

[@Argonwolfproject]

Every single strategic-range experimental weapon came into play in this game. This is the quintessential Seton's game.

[@OneBiasedOpinion]

Team 1: “We have multiple Ylona Oss! You have no chance!” Yudi, with 15 loaded nuke subs: “A bold statement Cotton. *Let’s see how it pans out.”*

[@badAim2]

"DeenS: Why is there... Why is there a yellow frig IN MY POND" xD

[@armacham]

The name game: deenS - Sneed aka DrBrapman. Nathan- - Thau aka Thaumiel aka WhenDayBreaks. Box- - UnorthodoxBox. MrLoveBirch - GrisbyAmbulance fka CrispyAmbulance. Yudi - recently has used the name Shinobu. Generally for these high-level Seton's games, all players choose "random faction" as well as random starting location & random teams.

[@GLAXxan]

Thanks! why do hell do FAF people keep changing their name every hour?! :D

[@armacham]

Stacking nuke subs: First, to stack them all on the same spot, you select them all, give them a move command to a specific spot, and then press "shift-g." Shift-g transforms your single move command into multiple move commands (one for each unit selected) so they all have orders to walk (swim) to the same exact spot. If you do this with mantis, for example, they will bump into each other. But navy units can occupy the same space. So they will all stand on the same exact spot. Second, to fire multiple nukes at the same time, to a single target, with only a single "strategic launch detected" announcement, you select multiple launchers that are loaded (static launchers, nuke subs, or sera battleships) and give a single "nuke" command targeting a single location. If your launchers are nuke subs, and they are all "standing" on the same exact spot, the missiles will come out in a stack.

[@Kepe]

What's the benefit of having stacked nukes instead of firing them from subs that are next to each other instead of them all occupying the same space? Sure, they look like one nuke, but it takes just as many anti-nuke shots to take the missiles down. Right?

[@armacham]

@@Kepe I think the only benefit is denying your opponent the knowledge of how many there are in flight. They may expect to be able to shoot one down and then not move their ACU.

[@iletyoucallmestevesy]

@@Kepe The benefit is that they all have exactly the same travel time. If they fire as a group, the SMD will shoot down the closest nuke, meaning the one behind is farther away from the target. If they are stacked, none of them is farther away.

[@Qrzychu92]

I think SMD should have a little AOE to counter this play. It is an explosive after all :)

[@bass-dc9175]

@@armacham There is another "benefit". I say "Benefit" because it is bugabuse. Multifire SMD. An SMD will be more likely to target the same nuke twice with this strategy. This reason (and this reason alone) is why the Para went down. 3 Antinukes got wasted by the bug and 1 nuke went through. While I disaprove of Nathans whining: It is valid to complain about such a blatent usage of bugs. 1 or 2 missles out of 8 triggering the bug? Yeah that can happen, but 3 is excessive.

[@Matt-vv1iv]

Nathan acts like such a child. Is there some social competence test you need to fail before joining these 1800+ lobbies?

[@Nathan-qs6ub]

Ye, I guess I failed the test :( if only you had to endure what I had to endure in that game

[@Matt-vv1iv]

@@Nathan-qs6ub I mean you literally bullied your air player into quitting, after accusing him of costing your lane by letting a couple mongoose past.

[@deeznuttes9340]

@@Nathan-qs6ub you're a salty asshat that's about it

[@nelch]

Kinda robbed though, stacked nuke like that isn't in the spirit of the game imo

[@Rellana1]

I'd say building that many Yolona Oss isn't in the spirit of the game ether,or it doesn't make for a very good game to watch in general. At least artillery can be stopped or negated to some extent with enough shields but that many nukes when it takes 2 SMD missiles per nuke to shoot them down?

[@MrAllofyourbase]

How about this? Drastically nerf the HP on SCUs (to 10000, with faction variation, but no more than 15? if not more drastic still), but buff their shield HP by an equal amount (throw some more shield regen on too, maybe). Kick the death nuke up to about 3000, but blocked by shields. Then move RAS to the body slot. This way, they die to a stiff breeze without heavy protection or their shield modules, and they go up in a chain reaction easily without them. You can of course make them tanky as before just by throwing the shield on, but it means you can't make RAS SCUs without sacrificing the overwhelming majority of their EHP. Meaning it becomes very, very high risk (but still rewarding) to spam RAS SCUs. Just like fab farms. In essence, you can *either* make them tanky, mobile monsters with high engineering power, *or* you can make them a mobile resource farm, but not both.

[@penguin8572]

It also surprises me that the support commanders have t4 engineering suit from the start. Maybe if they had to upgrade to get T4 like with the main commander, it would be less of an instant advantage to pump out SCUs. Could also do the opposite and have three presets, a shielded attack SCU, a T4 engineering SCU, and a mobile resource SCU. All pre-upgraded. This would cause them to be more expensive to build from the start, and prevent the overpowered overlap.

[@jager356]

@@penguin8572 wtf u guys are new in the game i hope

[@penguin8572]

@@jager356 I was relatively new at that time. Honestly since then ive played more and realized what a non-issue this is. Once you get to SACU then youve already hit endgame, having something overpowered isn't that bad. It's also that SACUs are not heavily used so having the nieche use of a rambo preset being able to build a mini turtle around itself is a cool way to get them used more.

[@LordCybot]

@@penguin8572 if the game has gotten to the point where more than half a players eco is from SACU’s you’ve already made many mistakes and the game is basically over already

[@Vlamyncksken]

50:50 he uses the ASF's to block the Mavor shell

[@davoid1792]

incredible, never even tried this tactic, seems like it would rarely work

[@jonathanhalloran5350]

Yudi has been my fave player since that game where he made 40 GCs. That was awesome

[@RiffRaffish]

Got a link to that game perchance?

[@jonathanhalloran5350]

Yeah its Epic 44 - Setons #15 watch?v=lMm8k2LH2qs

[@blosphere1234]

@@jonathanhalloran5350 damn now I want to find again the setons epic where blackheart was the last surviving on the team and still managed to wrangle a victory... @gyle ?

[@eamonnholland5343]

What an awesome game. Started with a little salt from Nathan at the beginning, then both teams started working together and it turned into the coolest naval battle in both ponds I've ever seen, then it turned into a M.A.D. nuke war, then more Nathan salt at the end. Really fun to watch.

[@tomjardine-smith2793]

I just randomly got served this video by YT and I am not sorry. Never heard of this game before but it sort of feels like a natural successor to Total Annihilation. Man, that was a game.

[@GreySectoid]

It *is* successor to Total Annihilation, designed by the same guy, Chris Taylor.

[@tomjardine-smith2793]

@@GreySectoid Oh cool! Ok. I need to get this immediately. Haha.

[@GreySectoid]

@@tomjardine-smith2793 Check out also Zero-K, it's free on Steam, similar to SupCom but with improved UI and unit control.

[@SupremeRTS]

Setons and epics go so well together

[@HardcoreSuperNoob]

You should stop putting the still image at the end. This increases the length of your video but decreases the % watched, which has a negative effect on your vids being recommended.

[@iletyoucallmestevesy]

It's to prevent spoilers from video length. Gyle dies that we may live

[@MackMillicco]

@@iletyoucallmestevesy You may see it that way, but a lot of us have expressed our thoughts that it's a friendly gesture, but an unnecessary one.

[@BlueGlowingLight4]

After reading your comment I set the video to 2x speed then left it playing in the background until I'd finished it.

[@BartmossTV]

It also makes playlists completely useless - can't just let the episodes run. I essentially stopped watching Gyle's videos because of this. Just checked in to see if the "anti-spoiler madness" was still going on. Sad to see it is. See y'all in a year I guess.

[@syradon4051]

This is total okay for me. Anti spoiler dont brother me, i have a finger to click another video. A "best scenes" of the actual video could be more fun, but i'm fine wirh his way.

[@CeeRTee]

Thanks for another video, i found your channel by accident and now play FAF because of it.

[@ferds814]

cocky nathan, didnt realise he was behind yudi. mavor ground fired the pond

[@benjaminlee985]

That can't be it, the Mavor was still raising its gun when Nathan died.

[@MrEmiosk]

@DiscordChaos I think Nathan was very unprepared to take over, and struggled to play on a very macro scale, While Yudi had all fronts covered when he was saddled with the air base. He had time to think and had already a bunch of plans, coupled with a larger ability to macro.While Nathan tried to do the same strat that struggled to work but made it bigger, and therefore very overwhelmed. Did not help Yudi knew a cheeky glitch that allows him to stack the nuke subs to give the impression there weren't so many nukes fired.

[@jessblues848]

Nathan's team invested in him, when he was obviously tilted and kept wasting resources, while the other team invested in Yudi & Benis, who took over the game. If T1 had invested in Jaguar & Box, they probably would've won.

[@Commandelicious]

This is about the 10th or so videos of SupCom in a row. I miss playing this.

[@zeroone2731]

when gyle said surely thats it I certainly agree with him with 3 yolona oss, salvation, and a paragon for team 2 vs a mavor only for team 1 anyone must think its over but that stacked up nuke barrage saved the game what an epic game

[@sjs9698]

i like that earlier in chat you can see the south team discussing options & yudi calls it: 'nukesubs are our only chance' proved himself right quite nicely ^^ though the discord in the top team probably helped.

[@JarthenGreenmeadow]

Yudi "I will put them to good use" *Immediately rushes them all to their death*

[@Roylevis]

Man Gyle i still remember the epic phantom game we had when i was a complete newb with a shit PC and managed to win lol

[@meoric1]

wowow this is the best one I've seen in a long time!

[@iletyoucallmestevesy]

insane. achievedjaguar was kicking ass in three theaters at the same time. it's crazy

[@h31212]

Lmao Yudi is the mvp for this one. Also Nathan need some milk

[@willhelterbrand3785]

Really awesome game. The push and pull between the teams towards the end was totally epic.

[@Snekonic]

Hey Gyle, I heard you wondering how much damage Mercies do. Anytime you need to know the damage of a unit. Select the player, go to a factory and hover over the unit in the factories build menu. So in this case, you could select a Aeon player, select the air factory, and hover over the mercy and it'd show the damage. Hope I explained it well enough. Love the casts as always.

[@DuoTheGodOfDeath]

Damn this game is already 13 years old. Where has the time gone.

[@henry7696]

therell never be another rts like it

[@grovsey3656]

Yay another! Cheers gyle. I've watched over 300 off us vids lol.

[@benjaminrobledo5466]

Wish the RK explosion mod was enabled for this. Lol. Would've made EVERYTHING better. Wow.

[@Sans-Soucii]

That was a really exciting match, thanks for uploading it!

[@CSGhostAnimation]

30:50 You are correct, however, the mid player is a playing a gambit- if they could lend their efforts to guarantee a swift victory against the weaker opponent, they could gain territory. Then the mid player the turns efforts against the stronger naval enemy. Fighting the strong opponent is often a lengthy stalemate. One of the safe bet, and the other is a gamble. Purple selected the gamble.

[@hezar5166]

Nothing tops a good setons, honestly it's probably the best map for variety and balance. Thank you for another awesome battle XD In terms of the match, Nathan could taken the bottom pond alot earlier! He had the numbers and the eco. Just not the quintessential cybran aggression

[@dominickdesalvo8476]

He was too busy blaming Krush for his own mistakes.

[@Shenaldrac]

@@dominickdesalvo8476 "Why didn't you deal with this threat to me even though I didn't ping it immediately? Why is it my responsibility to build a couple T2 air defenses near my naval build outpost??? I shouldn't have to be responsible for my own stuff!"

[@SangheiliSpecOp]

What an absolute joy to watch. I'm gonna post spoliers below this comment I wasn't expecting team 2 to win LOL, and definitely wasn't expecting mavors and paragons and YOLO launchers. I also really liked seeing nuke subs in play, those are some of my favorite units and are rare to see. The stacked nukes were great, Nathan was confused as fuck lol

[@kingfisher1638]

Ok just finished watching that was a crazy good game. you could supercut the hell out of that match as an advertisement for FAF. it had just about everything in there.

[@iletyoucallmestevesy]

except experimentals, surprisingly. one tempest was really it, and that thing got absolutely eviscerated by battleships

[@MrSilver222]

What a game, gotta love that salt from Nathan lol

[@Viper54K]

Hi Gyle, just wanted to drop in and say that i love the vids! Long time viewer, but rarely play anymore. Just enjoy watching the fun casts.

[@damyanexssessgeorgiev6]

the guy with the submarine nukes was like Oprah! You get Nuked, you get Nuked, you also get Nuked, everyone gets NUKES XDDDD

[@postron5649]

You can always make the chat-window larger by dragging the bottom right corner of it.

[@andrewkinsey8754]

"Ahhh Tastey!!" - Gyle when someone's base gets wiped by a massive nuke :D

[@hankl8730]

4.35 "debacle of last week..." Poor Joes. I enjoyed last weeks match and wouldn't call that match a debacle. Its fun to watch people make everyday joe mistakes.

[@elemenopycuaress7454]

I'm a simple man. I see epic Setons, I click.

[@depresion5884]

5-6 mercys for unupgraded coms i know this from sad experiences :(

[@peddazz2365]

5 are enough for cybran no?

[@abcd-yg2rx]

@@peddazz2365 I think also fewer are enough. Three or four. Instead two strat bombers are enough to kill any commander

[@peddazz2365]

@@abcd-yg2rx what are you trying to say?

[@depresion5884]

@@peddazz2365 i takes 6 to kill cyb 5 leaves them on 200 hp

[@depresion5884]

@@abcd-yg2rx thats not enough

[@SnoopA5]

Just to provide some perspective on the support commander issue, they cost 6000 mass each and easily lose mass for mass against experimentals and most t3 (disregarding insane micro) plus building the gateway should put you way behind on units. For reference, white last game had over 7 megaliths worth of support commanders (~45) after the battle which is why it looked so op. Theres a reason no high rated players unironically use them for combat ever

[@sjs9698]

except for rambos, ofc. those can be ridiculous although even more expensive ^^

[@PetersaberHD]

There also seems to be a reason why every victor spams RAS SACUs.

[@niknap7516]

kind of the most insane match i have watched from you :p damn that comeback...

[@myagiification]

Ah come-on gyle I still have no idea what happened at the end! Rewind it!

[@EmpressLeana]

He ctrl k-ed all his stuff

[@razzamattaz179]

That final kill was the mavor force firing the pond. You can see the shells on the mini map.

[@LusciousLucien]

Gyle, I love your casts and hope you continue to do them. I have loved supcom since the first game was put on PC then bought the Forged Alliance. I was sad when gas powered games went out of business. I was happy that others found the game got the codes and made FAF....Now I have almost watched every cast you have made, but the last cast you mentioned something about the support commanders and this one you said something of limits and that's not the supreme commander way. Being able to build 16 spiderbots 8 megaliths or 10 fatboys 4 asswhashers 9 chickens is the freedom Supreme Commander Forged Alliance gave to all the followers of the franchise. So limiting anyone in the game would betray the FAF and you know it

[@riancox782]

@Gyle The balance for RAS is provided in the fact that there is no water smd's. So the moment that you lose ground control your economy can no longer be defended. I don't know if that works but I am pretty sure that that was the idea behind the balance.

[@jadevandijk7437]

answer to question at time 13.20: mercy dps is 2.400. a non upgraded cyb com has 10.000 hp,so 5 are needed. also usefull for raiding mexes,since most have less then 2.400 hp. uef is the exeption.

[@Zoey--]

No way... that nuke snipe. What was that? Like 9 of them? I counter 8 anti nuke missiles. I'd imagine they fired 10.

[@yum33333]

I don't really have a problem with support commanders being OP - as long as they are balanced across factions. The real issue, to me, is that Seraphim don't have a RAS SCU. This puts them at a serious disadvantage in long games.

[@jager356]

nop in 1v1 the game are not often that long and seraphin have good combat acus instead its pretty balancen they changed faction allready too much in steam version they have more diffenced playstyles ok rus is op in steam version but where is the point in different fractions if they all can do the same stuff

[@flipdart]

Haven't played SC for years, but that game was awesome.

[@Kurt_Ostwald_FlussMark]

Gyle, You have reawakened my desire for SupCom. especially the Seton card is awesome. Here is our recent replay: content.faforever.com/faf/vault/replay_vault/replay.php?id=10971096 . I know you comment on pro games. But ours also has some twists. Our air player was attacked with a T4 bomber. And he accidentally killed him with his atomic bomb. For rookies, I find the game valuable enough to send it to you. my friends are Der_Lenz, Lennox and (I am Adama [by Battlestar Galactica]). I would be happy to see this game commented on by you. Thank you for your work Adama (Kurt), we are from Germany

[@Warshadows]

Good see that’s games still going need to download it again love it

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

i live how the support ressource commander swarm basically makemgame enders thatnarent massive aoe monsters pointles xd

[@HappyFlapps]

This month my dog died, I was diagnosed with Stage-3 cancer and my wife left me for a lesbian. I'd decided to eat a bullet, but this Gyle cast saved me. Fantastic game Gyle - Never stop casting!

[@GyleCast]

Are you joking right now or is that true?

[@HappyFlapps]

@@GyleCast It's no joke Gyle - Your videos are keeping me alive. If it weren't for you, I'd blow my brains out. MOAR GYLE CASTS or I'm a goner. : p

[@GyleCast]

@@HappyFlapps Mate, I don't know what to say. Do you have other people in your life, someone you can talk to?

[@HappyFlapps]

@@GyleCast I have you Gyle.

[@GyleCast]

@@HappyFlapps Yes you do, If ever you need to talk man, drop me a line.

[@x3kj705]

good game, good cast (although some missed action) Still would love you to try the free-cam option (see game keyboard shortcuts) for capturing the action occasionally from different viewpoint Re Subcoms - They are the reason there is a gradual switch in the endgame away from territory control to just subcom spam and game enders. "But they are not as efficient as mass fabs" - except they can walk everywhere (even get air lifted), can hide underwater, have tiny footprint, can build, can face tank a tac missile without chain reaction, dont require space to build new ones. They provide ample power if the power grid is destroyed, they provide ample mass if mass extractors are destroyed. Res SubComs are the turtle players dream (but usefull to anyone else as well). If you want to win, you better build them. The alternatives for mass generation... T2 mass fabs (seldomly used) or T3 mass fabs even (never used) pale in utility.

[@SixxJo44]

Here to push your algorithm :D

[@DanteLauert]

Woop woop! New cast!

[@jx4219]

I remapped that to shift-x. You can also use it for spread attack.

[@dag1704]

This was a great game, exciting until the last second. GG, well played everyone

[@Sebastian----]

@Gyle, @All Is FAF down? Can't log in. On site, everything seem fine. "statuspage.faforever.com/"

[@nordby9453]

Spoilers: I guess Nathan forgot the first rule about building a paragon, You build more. he didnt, and that started the collapse, once his para died, his eco went to far off balance to recover.

[@nordby9453]

But it's easy for me/us to criticise afterwards. In the moment it's easy to forget these things.

[@hildegard4868]

@@nordby9453 Speaking as someone who regularly partakes and partook in Seton's games of this quality and higher, that loading screen tip is mostly bollocks. You seldomly have any realistic opportunity to build another paragon, being limited with buildspace and more importantly BP - you don't have the luxury of spending even a fifth of your precious BP to building another paragon (which most likely will be impossible to shield or defend as well as your main one located at the farthest corner of your base), since you're in a *deathly* hurry to build actual weapons with which to end the game. Not spending the extra 2000 mass/tick on mavors and salvations asap, would in many games have costed everything. If your main paragon can get killed, there is nothing to stop them from killing the second one; which, let us reiterate, must be built closer to frontline to avoid being wiped out in the possible loss of the initial one, or to prevent it, upon being destroyed, from wiping out your precious BP. Also, in any normal circumstance it is next to impossible to stack enough BP to reach the 10k mass limit per paragon after the BP nerfs in patches. It's both a conscious decision to not even try to build another one, as well as a physical impossibility of doing so; not finding a space that is both behind plentiful SMD's as well as leaving decent space for shields and PD's, not even mentioning whether your BP can reach such a location in any timely manner.

[@Shenaldrac]

@@hildegard4868 So were you just not watching the video, where the first paragon was not at all built on the furthest away area of the map, and where Nathan had basically his team's entire half of the map? Because that's what happened. There was absolutely enough room. As for "If they can kill your first they can kill your second", if it's a matter of having an extra minute to finish off the enemy Mavor or w/e took down your first one, or hunt down some missile subs, then that will matter. The idea that it is literally physically impossible, as you say in your post, to have the build space for a second paragon, when supcom maps are very large, is just absurd. There was tons and tons of space on that map, and Nathan didn't take advantage of it. Fat lotta good his Yolona Osses did him.

[@ChicoMomba]

Superb game and cast.

[@kingfisher1638]

What if support commanders were very fragile and only generated eco with an upgrade which is mutually exclusive that provides defenses at the cost of resources. Make it an explicit choice where you can either have a fragile mobile eco generator or a tanky combat engineer. maybe even give the resource gen a larger death explosion radius and damage.

[@Hedning1390]

The balancing factor for support commanders is their price and build time. A small group cost as much as an experimental, yet in that game they didn't get the level of respect from the opponent as having the mass equivalent of experimentals would have. Rambo preset doesn't produce that much resources and ras does not have hardly any combat ability, and are less mass efficient than t2 mass fab spam.

[@mozan4469]

What do you think about Nomads?

[@Govil68]

Thank you Sir. U saved my evening ;o)

[@Visor3410]

I'm a simple man, I see Setons - I press like ;d

[@EskimoJoe492]

Also, STRATEGIC LAUNCH DETECTED

[@Snowstrider0001]

Limit support commanders to 1 or 2 per gateway? treat them like Novax satellites

[@peddazz2365]

why?

[@Snowstrider0001]

@@peddazz2365 Well, if you were looking to decrease the number of support commanders being spammed, you'd want to limit their numbers somehow. You could take a couple of approaches for this, such as increasing their cost, increasing their build time, reducing their capabilities, or putting a cap on the number that can be fielded. Each option has merits and demerits: increasing build time is easy ti implement, but overcome-able by using more build capacity; increasing build cost is likewise easy to implement, and similarly easy to overcome naturally as more SACUs are produced. Reducing their capabilities will hurt new players as well as the fun aspects of the unit, reducing the likelihood that players will build them and would be more involved than simply increasing build costs (I can only think of demerits for this one). Finally, putting a cap on the units would physically limit their numbers while maintaining their capabilities, with the downside of being the most difficult to implement and not fitting with SC's general theme. As a result of thinking over the objective "Reduce the likelihood of SACU spam, while keeping them useful and fun" I came up with the comment above. Remembering that the Novax satellite is automatically launched after the center is built (and only one is created) I suggested that perhaps the SACUs could be limited to a number per gateway. Preferably, that number would be able to be increased with upgrades to the building, which would slowly gate-in new SACUs automatically up to its limit.

[@peddazz2365]

@@Snowstrider0001 would not make much sense lore-wise and what do you suggest should happen in case the Qgate is destroyed? should the sacus die? and if not then what about simply control k-ing and immediately rebuilding the QG? instead of trying to nerf a unit into oblivion simply make other playstyles more viable

[@Snowstrider0001]

@@peddazz2365 You and I are in disagreement with the lore in this instance. Armored Command Units and their support units are manned and operated by military personnel. These individuals are the best and brightest the military has to offer: the most effective, capable, and far more importantly, trustworthy, leaders are given command of an ACU. It's easy to imagine that SACU operators are ACU operator candidates who simply haven't been promoted to that level as of yet. Which brings me to the point here in that the operators for these machines are a finite resource, and as the ACU has a unit cap of 1, limiting the number of support commanders in some fashion makes perfect sense lore-wise. To answer your questions, I'd think leaving any SACUs already produced alone would be the most prudent course. Rebuilding the quantum gateway costs resources, time, and build capacity that could be used elsewhere. In addition, SACUs take a few minutes to pop out of the gateway, so there's no immediate reward for that behavior. Your last point is more difficult to address, as the implied assertion is that a SACU has no value in a game when in small numbers. I don't believe this to be the case, but were there a limit toward the number that could be produced, through any method, it then opens up opportunities to increase the units' flexibility or power as appropriate in order to maintain it as a present unit. If you believe that reducing the number of them in play would render the SACU a pointless unit, that may be indicative that there is, indeed, some flaw with it that may benefit from being addressed.

[@peddazz2365]

@@Snowstrider0001 Steven Haase limiting it in some fashion can make sense lore wise not in the fashion you described tho I did not say sacus are useless in small numbers You yourself said that increasing mass cost or build time are easily overcome and I assume thats why your suggestion is a better option But as I pointed out if the sacus stay alive all you effectivly did was increase mass cost and build time with extra steps

[@guardingdark2860]

I wonder if you can have a system where you can give support commanders dedicated roles at a cost. Like you can have a combat commander that can't build or doesn't produce eco, but is basically experimental-level tech (like if Percivals are tech 3.5, make combat support commanders 3.75 or something; enough to be worth it, but not full-on experimental-tier), another one that's eco focused where it can only produce eco when deployed, but can pack up and move somewhere safe (but is very vulnerable while doing so), and another that is focused on building, where it has high armor but no gun and no eco, plus the T3 suite. Either that, or just limit the number you can build so you can't just spam them and roll over people.

[@Therealromario1]

Yes sup-com mobile eco should stay..... For me it really come down to tactics, mobile eco is the only tactic against game enders like tier 3 arty nukes and some experimental's. If you take away players valid tactic to counter/survive game enders then game enders should be restricted or changed aswell.

[@VexingRaven]

They are called game enders for a reason you know.

[@gorillachair]

I was thinking exactly the same thing! Besides support coms arent even hard to kill with experimentals anyway, besides seraphim, who dont have RAS

[@ztashed6366]

@@VexingRaven they called game enders bcs they give huge chance to end the game. It must be a counterplay againts game ender

[@VexingRaven]

@@ztashed6366 I thought the counterplay was killing them, not losing your whole base and not caring because you have 100 SCUs.

[@Thelitletrainthtcud]

"Why should I lose when I allowed them to get an eco and build advantage to create a game ending unit/units?" Lol whut

[@bryanbray8358]

Eyyy nice vid! Love ur work

[@grovsey3656]

What's with the lack of land or air experimental? Team 1 took the bottom pond quite early. Surely some bugs or megaliths built in the water would of smashed team 1?

[@sjs9698]

idk for sure but quite often the very highest tier don't use 'em much on setons, i suppose they think they're too likely to donate mass & slow down their nuke-sub/game-ender spam?

[@Franzibald_]

Stacking the nukes already seems rather dubious by coming out as a single nuke warning message, since that could influence the decision to get your com out of there. If it actually wastes SMD's because they target the same nuke, it should be a bannable exploit.

[@LoveFor298Yen]

[@Kenabukanyo]

" Is " my friend .. " IT IS " not " WAS . " :))

[@Jeff55369]

56:08 mavor counters scu... lawl.

[@RiffRaffish]

I think Nathan was getting ground fired by the Mavor then ctrl+k because I can't see a shell actually hit him.

[@HiCZoK]

There was never a better supreme commander1 map

[@XpalmerCZ]

Epic. Bravo

[@edisontrent618]

1:05:25 Perfect End of Ze World reference right there.

[@cleverpighiding]

Yay gyle!!! do I have exams? maybe.... is it gyle's fault? nah, ive just got great work ethic xD

[@seanlemeow7277]

Loved the battle, but thought krush stacking nukes like that was a little cheese abusing the game mechs. Love the streams Gyles.

[@Ahmadaziz1000]

What is the benefit of stacking nukes?

[@shrokbouf]

Toxic players like Nathan are the reason why I wouldn't ever consider playing this competitively.

[@UnknownKnower2]

dont be a baby

[@shrokbouf]

@@UnknownKnower2 ouch, nice burn, got me good there chief.

[@samdosser554]

RAS coms are love RAS coms are life

[@RobbieKiama]

what is the role of headquarters vs normal factory?

[@jarrod752]

I know it's old, but i believe a mercy does 2k damage to a com. Thats 4-6 unupgraded depending on the target race.

[@BenTheITGuy]

Awesome video thanks man :)

[@wavetrex]

What an EPIC game !

[@mutantgenepool]

Is deenS, Sneed?

[@hauntedcookiez]

formerly kcuhc

[@jeff0247598]

How in the world did Team 2 come back?! How did they spam all the nukes from the subs, protect the 2nd Mavor /Scathis?! That was sickness!

[@Nathan-qs6ub]

Hey so, it seems like my second answer to Matt’s very insightful comment somehow magically vanished for me. Imma just repost it right here just to be on the safe side. First of all, I didn't insult anyone once in the entire game so calling this bullying is a bit of a stretch. All I did was comment on our air players playstyle and not on his person, worse things were said from other people in this game compared to what I said. Those mongooses were scouted and pinged well in advance and he did not care enough about me or my lane to shoot them down or to even pay attention to it. He also did not even try to help me until it was already too late and after I had to caps lock spam him. Instead I was blamed for not pinging them fast enough, even though i did so about 2 minutes in advance. To me this is just either trolling or not caring about your teammates. Those mongooses also destroyed my entire eco-bp transition since I had most of my facs and engies on the island, which either all died or had to spam reclaim. You can see how much mass I had in storage because of it on this very video. I was even forced to rush an anti to SOMEHOW spend some of that mass since I lost my buildpower. Please look a bit deeper into the game instead of just looking at how many mexes the drop killed. In the latter stages of the game when I made a paragon, he also did not contribute much of anything to it, which I was then blamed for, even though I built most of it. It was also stated by him that I wanted him to spam engies while the paragon was not even close to being done, delaying the paragon. This too was a straight up lie, because, while yes, I wanted him to make engies, I never said he should make them now. Instead he spammed t3 pgens while he was overflowing 20k energy per second, while we tried our ass off to get it up as quickly as possible. The paragon being delayed by this probably cost us the game, considering the southern air player contributed basically his entire eco into their game ender. All of this is literally in the replay, you can watch it. I hope this clears things up.

[@scfan7231]

Hey, thanks for explaining!!!! --- This is awesome. Yeah, I was wondering why you had so many engies on that island (and I'm still not sure why), but the loss in BP gives a lot of context that Gyle missed. And it's interesting to see that the bottom team managed to collaborate better on the Mavor and that held them in the game. Really cool share, also thank you for using very neutral language. If anything, you passed the test. I would not have managed to respond without sarcasm.

[@Nathan-qs6ub]

​@@scfan7231 I ecoed a lot during that game, which meant that when I was done ecoing I would have had to transition from eco to navy spam very quickly, in order to use up all of my mass without having too much in storage. Failing the buildpower transition on the navy slots is a very easy way to lose the game, as you will simply not be able to convert your income into units fast enough. The transition from t1 naval facs to t2 naval support factories takes a very long time, which means you will need a lot of engies to do that at any reasonable pace. And also ofc, because engineers are a more efficient (but riskier) form of buildpower, compared to let’s say a t3 naval support factory. A healthy mix of engie spam and support factories is the best option imo.

[@SangheiliSpecOp]

I was just as confused as you when I saw the stacked nukes at first lol. I didn't know you could do that

[@RBAWintrow]

put some AA on your island next time.

[@Nathan-qs6ub]

@@RBAWintrow He used a t2 transport to drop those, would have needed to invest heavily in aa into shoot that down. I also didn't know it was still alive so I didn't bother, also because we had asfs.

[@servety8472]

Finally seatons!!!

[@PilotPlater]

the real play by play is by king nathan do-no-wrong in the chat haha

[@justvideos3216]

Why are the aircraft from "mrlovebirch" marked with a kind of "stop" sign at 16:09 ?

[@patrickwentz532]

All Cybran T3 air has stealth (can't be seen with radar) that costs energy to run, the 'stop sign' shows that he has that off.

[@justvideos3216]

@@patrickwentz532 Thank you!

[@michaelfolley2227]

Used to play this on xbox back in the day and damn this makes me miss it. Anyone know if there's a simple texture/model update on a pc version? I'm thinking of getting it there

[@MikeIsTooCommonAName]

How do I submit a replay to Gyle? I had an e p i c 2v2 I would love to submit.