How to Micro Xbow vs Knights

The current state of unit movements is not great so I wanted to figure out the best way to micro when kiting back knights.
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[@Sebastian-lh6bn]

What could be pretty useful is activating the on-screen keyboard. Even if you don't use it (by clicking on it), it displays what keys you are pressing by flashing the according key you press on your regular keyboard.

[@SurvivalistAoE]

That's a great idea. I'll keep it in mind for next time it might be useful.

[@Sebastian-lh6bn]

@@SurvivalistAoE Thanks for your consideration! I'll watch all of your videos regardless. ;D Always outstanding contributions.

[@alanmillis6998]

I love this style of video where you talk through real time. Question: Is there a video that shows the actual click sequence of each of these types of micro? i.e. attack move hotkey+left click away+right click+hotkey repeat? I have trouble actually tracking what he is physically doing as he micros

[@SurvivalistAoE]

You've got it. 1. Attack move hotkey 2. Left click away from the enemy (you can right click but I prefer left) 3. Right click to issue a movement command after the units have fired

[@Tocaraca]

In case people are still watching this, it's worth mentioning that stop micro has been fixed since then, and the units all attack at the same time now.

[@stevehuang4863]

I finally understand why my archer civ always worse than my cavalry ones... I have been using Stand Ground + Stop for my whole game career and thinking that's a advanced skill until now...

[@mengyang0413]

Yeah same. Did not know this at all.

[@Dragonstar_aoe]

That no attack stance is actually super big brain but it's a shame not all the xbow shoot at the same time.

[@SurvivalistAoE]

I was so excited to test it only to find out that it was bad :(

[@tizioita]

@@SurvivalistAoE i'm convincing that when we use this method with no attack/aggressive with patrol can be very good in a short time on top of the hill when we fight other range units....only for manteining the position! Have you test in this particolar situation?

[@SurvivalistAoE]

@@tizioita I guess that could be pretty okay. Haven't tested it though.

[@fuyoutubeck]

@@SurvivalistAoE what if you test stand ground, I know it works really well with patrolling knights because aggressive makes them go haywire at enemy contact trying to path to targets so patrolling on stand ground and then switching to aggressive right at sword point makes them path the same way an archer group would form a circle around a target which is way smoother

[@SurvivalistAoE]

@@fuyoutubeck Stand ground doesn't make any difference here as the problem is that they don't fire at the same time with this type of micro.

[@TheOrder96]

Would love to see this same style of video but for knights/melee micro vs xbows! The or even melee vs melee

[@justxavier9999]

18:40 This would be super helpful when you are taking a fight near enemy structures, where attack move will have some of your back units attack buildings, self guard would in theory make all your units attack the enemy units instead

[@HyunAOP]

Normally when I do this. My eco dies because a vill overchops and 5 kts has gg'ed my eco 11111 Jk jk great video

[@henriquematias1986]

Thanks for the content! A quick suggestion: would be great to get an overlay with the keystrokes you do! for instance when you were doing the ATTACK MOVE i wasn't sure if you were pressing STOP or doing anything other than asking the units to move!

[@christopherschwarz5470]

I tried the scenario, but was not able to produce units with the enemy coloured buildings. How can Survivalist command the red units? Great video by the way, thanks. Just heard about attack move the first time.

[@SurvivalistAoE]

There are scenario hints that you can see in one of the menus. You have to send one of the kings in the top towards one of the pavilions to take over the units/buildings. To switch players, you press ctrl + shift + F2.

[@MrBulya]

Does it all apply to CA as well?

[@SurvivalistAoE]

Yeah, attack move should still be best for CA. Gaining more distance each step is huge with them.

[@justxavier9999]

I still remember playing this scenario in group coaching. I still use attack move micro you taught, long after the nerf and it still works super well. I’m a Lithuanian main now and I am very much benefiting from the knights + scorpion micro. Too bad I don’t have as much time nowadays but I always look forward to returning to the community

[@garetwebster5002]

it was nerfed since this video?

[@shanfengzhang9631]

Is this rule different for mangudai (or anything that shoots faster)? I'm playing mangudai madness and found mangudai shots much faster when using the stop command than using attack move or patrol.

[@SurvivalistAoE]

This video is obsolete for now since attack move has some very bad regrouping issues now. Stop micro is the best way to micro at the moment.

[@rickl5596]

I don't get it. How are you actually accomplishing the attack move tactic? What are you doing on the mouse/keyboard to make them move further back than they do with the focus fire tactic?

[@SurvivalistAoE]

This video is obsolete right now as pathing got really messed up in the past few years. I'll make an updated version when the PUP is released

[@thomasmuller546]

what do you click when you attack move and kite back? they attack automatically i guess but how do they move back? cause ur mouseclicks where pretty far away but the units stopped and attacked all the time.

[@SurvivalistAoE]

1. Attack move hotkey 2. Left click away from the enemy (you can right click but I prefer left) 3. Right click to issue a movement command after the units have fired

[@joshuagoetz2707]

Great video and scenario! How do I control/make units with the enemy tho?

[@SurvivalistAoE]

ctrl + shift + F2

[@joshuagoetz2707]

@@SurvivalistAoE Thank you!

[@HuMoDz]

@@SurvivalistAoE I was not being able to get this to work, so in case anyone is stuck as well: 1. ENABLE CHEATS, as it says in the Scenario's description, and 2. type AEGIS in chat to create units instantly like he does

[@gruntgg]

Thank you for the video! I recently came back to the game after some time and noticed that my crossbows were getting absolutely destroyed when doing target fire micro (which used to be the best after the devs heavily nerfed the move+stop micro). Now I know why and know what to use instead!

[@Denis-vr3sh]

how do you kill sheep - asking for a friend...

[@krystofcisar469]

Focus fire is soo bad these days. Its the timing u mentioned, u must hit it otherwise crossbows just glitch in reloading animations :D I like that self defend and attack move, defintiely gotta utilize it more. archer civs were nerfed too hard -devs probably forgot that paladins exist in game.

[@tizioita]

Survivalist Number One I found many times some bugs on movement with attack move, somethimes he's bugs out when i climb the hill and the archers only walk fare away with no shooting 😱

[@MUSCLE_WIZARD]

So is it recommended to use self guard in archer vs archer fights? I always struggle in archer vs archer and would like to figure out the best way to micro units is

[@SurvivalistAoE]

It depends on the exact situation.

[@fuyoutubeck]

I always struggle with these fights as well but in feudal, in castle for some reason I am way better, I hate microing without ballistics man

[@connormako1987]

Stop micro used to be great before DE. There is a mod that lets you play the original versions of the campaigns from the forgotten expansion. Somehow it has the pathing from the old game too. If you want to feel good stop micro in DE, download the mod and start a level. It is really good and I’d like to see it work like that again.

[@rafad9044]

A hypothesis: maybe when attack move- more xbows are close to knights than when patrol (becouse of horizontal formation), so knights have more targets to chose from which might bug them a little.

[@smuchapreciated1959]

Great explanation. Is this video still valid after the recent pathing updates?

[@SurvivalistAoE]

The movement is slightly different, but the way to micro with attack move/patrol is still valid.

[@FatalSkeptic]

"nothing really works intuitively in this game" LOLOLOL!!!

[@sourathghosh5170]

Wait so this means self guard is really good when microing against enemy units at the enemy base right? This essentially ensures you never misclick or attack a building.

[@SurvivalistAoE]

Since they fixed stop command, stop is just better

[@sourathghosh5170]

@@SurvivalistAoE Oh thats awesome will start using it!! Thanks for the video :)

[@lordrslingAOE]

I think changing the stance won't work because you want archers to reorder - to move weak once sometimes in the front so they wont die. When you are just changing stance, the order of archers stays the same and they got eaten from the back pretty fast.

[@belisarian6429]

I love move + no attack/attack stance switching, it is micro you can do while not looking at the fight.

[@graigaron1215]

I need this but for CA (and how to aproach CA from a strategy and macro perspective)

[@rickychardzz]

I miss the time when you would just right click to move, and stop micro back in the day it was the best. After the nerf of attack move micro i only used focus fire, but it’s great to know it is still the best way and save you some games. I did not know the focus fire units move so slow damn it

[@SurvivalistAoE]

The movement command after focus fire got bugged after the patch that made attack move worse. This patch also removed the speed ups for unit who needed to regroup.

[@rickychardzz]

@@SurvivalistAoE thanks a lot survivalist you are really nice. Side question, i know you don’t play team games but will you sign up for nations cup ??

[@SurvivalistAoE]

@@rickychardzz Doubt I will play any role in Nations Cup.

[@rickychardzz]

@@SurvivalistAoE alright gg and keep up the good work i love your videos

[@Pablo-oh5vo]

attack move is basically select units, right click on the map, then A and repeat, right?

[@nicobarrientos8315]

thank you man i really apretiate when you give this kind of information big hug from argentina!

[@connormako1987]

Would it be good to alternate patrol and attack move? Get the maximum regrouping

[@smellyhhh]

It's great as always. But one question: Does the behavior of the Crossbows change, if you do "attack move" in stand ground stance compared to attack stance?

[@SurvivalistAoE]

Attack move has all of the units attack at the same time so there wouldn't be any time for them to stack so it shouldn't make a difference.

[@theblackknight6405]

Science! Love it. I'll still using attack move then

[@UmutKaradabann]

Great video! Can you also make a video on Kingstone knight micro? I believe it was Kinstone but not %100 sure but I think Hera is also using it

[@SurvivalistAoE]

I honestly don't fully understand it myself yet. I should practice a few things to figure it out.

[@gamerisdc]

There are some weird situations where you want a certain non-attacking unit that isn't a villager to be close to your army, and that's only in the campaigns. That's like the only place in the whole game where "follow" felt like it had a use. Wonderful showcase as always

[@unapersonamas5941]

I think AI makes spearman follow rams sometimes?

[@connorwilliams3542]

I had wondered why my patrolling away always seemed to get me killed

[@charleyruwart8983]

invaluable

[@david_oliveira71]

thx a lot for this!

[@joethevegan4454]

Tx a lot buddy

[@olowokandi42]

I noticed you were on aggresive stance when doing the attack move micro. Does it change if on stand ground?

[@SurvivalistAoE]

Nope, doesn't make a difference when kiting knights.

[@sauravtripathi4128]

Next patch changes leaked: Units now regroup with attack move. Hauberk costs +200f +200g, and only gives +1/+1 armor.

[@rafad9044]

Source?

[@sauravtripathi4128]

@@rafad9044 it's sarcasm

[@johnnyroe8053]

Nice again

[@johnnyroe8053]

nice

[@Eskimobrille]

.

[@mrr.dovahkiin1531]

how did you get to control both ? xd

[@SurvivalistAoE]

In the scenario editor, you can press ctrl+shift+f2 to control player 2. (f3, f4, etc for other players)

[@Felixaltosax1994]

How do you attack move? I don't get it..

[@SurvivalistAoE]

1. Attack move hotkey 2. Left click away from the enemy (you can right click but I prefer left) 3. Right click to issue a movement command after the units have fired

[@Felixaltosax1994]

@@SurvivalistAoE Thank you!

[@atakanyildirim9392]

Amazing content, thank you!

[@pedropasquini4311]

Nice video! How do you change from one player to another in the scenario? Do you open two copies of aoe in one pc?

[@SurvivalistAoE]

Nah, you just press ctrl + shift + f2

[@pedropasquini4311]

@@SurvivalistAoE thanks! Much simpler than i thought

[@_jwp_7311]

Nice update, great content!

[@Dj.julien.b]

Great video as always ! Did you design this map with scenario editor or is this a downloaded map mod ? Thanks

[@SurvivalistAoE]

I made the map (though a viewer got this one started and I just added the triggers). You can find it on the mods page if you search my name. It's really not that special though. Very useful for this kind of thing, and you can have up to 5 players in the game at a time.

[@Dj.julien.b]

​@@SurvivalistAoE I would like to control 2 players as you did in the video. Is it possible to do this by yourself just as you did in the video ? Toggle between your civ and the enemyciv to simulate a fight ?

[@redflagok544]

@@Dj.julien.b yes,I also have the question.

[@user-jy6vr9sz8b]

I think it depends so much on players and situations. I tested archer micro vs half amount of knights, and got the different results from you. -any micro makes little difference (alomst equal results to no micro. attack move is slightly better) -attack move is good for vs infantry (equal speed units), but when the enemy is too close attack move is useless and stop micro is good. -archers were always defeated by knights whenever the archer amount is 20, 40 and 60. -stop micro is not that bad. they almost always fire at the same time, and can get a distance from the knights. -we can seem knights also have their micro in multiplayer games. archer micro is only good for vs a few of kinghts.

[@SurvivalistAoE]

I think that you were probably microing poorly if attack move didn't help in a significant way. 1. Attack away from the enemy move to attack 2. Once your units have attacked, issue a right click movement command 3. Repeat The key is issuing the movement command after you do the attack. This for some reason makes them move pretty far from the knights. Archer micro is a skill that takes a while to develop.

[@user-jy6vr9sz8b]

@@SurvivalistAoE I thought that factor (because my now elo is low), but I also thought that factor is little problem. When a knight attacks then archers run away, another knight attacks instantly so archers take damage regularly. That may be caused by knights' staggered formation that is good for melee units. And I think a fast move in attack move was deleted in the patch 61321, April 27 2022.

[@SurvivalistAoE]

@@user-jy6vr9sz8b Yes, attack move is significantly worse than it used to be, but it still works better than any other method as my tests show in the video.

[@user-jy6vr9sz8b]

@@SurvivalistAoE I retested and found I'd tested in imp. Attack move is good for vs knights in castle age (bad vs paladin), and stop micro is bad because of the turn move. Then knights with staggered can get more archers. What a fool of me :)

[@SurvivalistAoE]

@@user-jy6vr9sz8b Always good to double check :)

[@符宝鸿]

its really useful!

[@robtektek]

anyone know what the name of the scenario is?

[@SurvivalistAoE]

If you search for "Survivalist" in the mod center, you'll find it. It's called infinite micro.

[@linker94]

What is the attack move? is that the option thats hotkey r?

[@SurvivalistAoE]

1. Attack move hotkey 2. Left click away from the enemy (you can right click but I prefer left) 3. Right click to issue a movement command after the units have fired

[@cashearnest5618]

Lol I still don't get it but I'm going to try. Mid elo guys probably don't know what that means.

[@justxavier9999]

Thank you for the many Forbidden Techniques Surv. You are always our best master

[@fuyoutubeck]

this videooooo, this is what I've been struggling with for 2 years, whenever I watch pros they would win fights with xbow where I get completely destroyed, I just struggled terribly to play archers which I enjoy more than cav, I really hate how you just patrol your knights and go macro away while an archer player has to struggle focus firing and moving and getting mauled down, this is really good, like I can't describe how I feel, do you think I should replace my patrol hotkey with attack move ?, cause my layout is based off the classic hotkeys and I am using tab for idle vills so there's no room for attack move atm, maybe capslock 11, or maybe ` actually right next to 1 which is the archer control group, nicccce