Surviving drought - ideas for greater resilience, some signs of life on the swales (maybe?)

[@peterellis4262]

The lamb's quarter along the swale tells you the swale is doing its work, the water is going into the ground and providing for the plants on the down slope side.

[@chessman483]

We live in Australia in a very hot area. Where we shifted to and bought our 33 acres had been in a drought for 3 years. So we put a bore in straight away. Of course the drought broke after a month. Our monstrous damn is overflowing. So in 11 months our place has gone from almost complete desolation to a living oasis. We put a large irrigation system covering our 3 acre food forest. Bananas have exploded. So if you get a nice wet year your place will explode. I hope you can set up some sort of watering system. Through our dry weeks we just water and things just keep growing fast. The thousands we spent on our water system is the best money ever spent.

[@patrick_laslett_allotment]

I reckon the suggestion of a pond is right on - as big as possible! Maybe at your highest point? 🦆🐠 Like the tomatoes.🐞 It's all a journey and when we get there we become the compost.🍀LOL

[@reaganmullenaux7784]

Black locust grows everywhere in Arizona and is hard to control

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

@@reaganmullenaux7784 It's invasive here in Europe, but it's just taken over and there is no way back, you just have to cut and mow it if you don't want it. On the other hand, it's a nitrogen-fixer, fantastic bee-browse in spring (black locust honey fetches a premium here) and the wood is really rot-resistant so it has a lot of uses when cut down, too.

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

A pond at the highest point? That's probably not doable, but I have space for a pond at basically the lowest point, which sort of made sense as well in terms of catching the most water. But like I say, we really don't get run-off as such, it would probably have to be filled from catchment surfaces of some kind and used as a kind of storage and even pumped up sometimes if needed. But the lining is the problem, unless someone round here hits on a vein of clay I can use...

[@thedayfliesby9427]

I know how you feel, we didn’t have any rain since March. Terrible, depressing. However starting raining in August. Drought is over, starting to look like a jungle, beautiful! Chop and drop worked. Just keep going, it will work!

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

Thanks, yes, we FINALLY got some decent rains at the end of August and are probably in for more. I haven't been at the site for a week now because of kids going back to school in town and stuff, I am wondering if it's turned into a jungle now! Unfortunately it's too late for a lot of the annuals I wanted to grow, probably, like squashes, and for some of the bare-root trees that didn't make it, but there is still plenty we can do this year.

[@morjesusgan3]

Hope you get some rain soon! I’m going to be starting a food Forrest in the high desert of southern Oregon so I anticipate some challenges as well.

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

Thanks, we FINALLY have some rain! Great for some things to maybe grow a bit, but too late for many other things. Like, we don't have a single pumpkin/summer squash yet, the vines are big but no female flowers yet, crazy, I highly doubt we can get some now before the first frost in around November, but we can but hope. Southern Oregon definitely sounds like it's going to be a challenge! It's maybe not unlike my part of the world, arid in summer but also with frosts in winter, getting down to 15F (-10C) or even lower depending on the year, so you can't grow anything tropical.

[@morjesusgan3]

@@thehillsidegardener3961 I’m so glad to hear that! Hopefully you get lots more growth. Love pumpkin and squash! Yeah it’s pretty extreme here. Going to be building an earthship which stays @70 degrees year round and includes an intergraded green house grey water system. I’ll be able to grow tropical stuff once that’s done, but I have a lot of work to do until then.

[@SM-ik8lu]

So many things to be done there my friend.

[@Mrbfgray]

My Sberries never seemed that drought tolerant but been impressed how they can exist in full shade, not productive that way but look healthy.

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

What's hilarious is these are supposed to be an ever-bearing variety. They never stood a chance of bearing anything beyond May sometime, not that I expected them to!

[@peterellis4262]

Your notion of planting into that slash border is independently arriving at some of the ideas of syntropic agriculture ;) You might look into the system as potentially beneficial for your situation.

[@pinkelephants1421]

Wouldn't necessarily give up on those bare root trees just yet. They may resprout from the bottom over the winter/springtime. Nasturtiums are often used as companion planting to deter pests. Are there any other types of companion plants that can be grown to deter stinkbugs? Since you struggle with annual veges, why not consider, research and trial 'perennial' vege varieties, many of which are just the perennial versions of the annuals commonly grown today. They may prove more resilient and should you find success, certainly less work.

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

Thanks for the ideas - funnily enough in a more recent video (kzbin.info/www/bejne/hKrCdXeDirSHqdE) I showed that the Williams pear is indeed putting out leaves at the bottom! However, it's below the graft, so I don't really know what to expect, maybe the scion portion will spring to life next year, although I am pretty sure at least the top half or so is dead, not sure further down, pretty miraculous though! Maybe I can graft something onto it. I tried growing nasturtiums this year for the first time and I don't know if the seed was poor, or whether it was just the super-hot weather but they barely grew all summer, very feeble, now it's cooled down they have started growing a bit more convincingly, but not much. Will try to get some different seed next year, of a different cultivar maybe. Unfortunately nobody has yet suggested any companion plant that might deter stinkbugs, although I could try nasturtiums - marigolds are quite popular too, but not sure how effective. I grow basil in amongst the tomatoes and they don't go on the basil, but it doesn't keep them off the tomatoes either, I am actually considered giving up on tomatoes, and generally going over to more perennial vegetables like you say. I did try getting hold of some perennial/tree kales but couldn't get them to survive here, I need to look into more varieties that might tolerate a hot climate, any suggestions welcome.

[@wiseguy4457]

I don’t know where you’re located at but your climate seems similar to mine but cooler. I’m on a north facing slope on the dry scrubland area of the center ridge of Florida. A lot of similar planes growing

[@wiseguy4457]

Also try planting sweet potato under your trees. Even if you leave the tubers in the ground the greens are edible and they can handle the shade and actually grow faster in my experience

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

​@@wiseguy4457 I am in Serbia, which is south-eastern Europe, so well, we are starting to look like dry scrubland here, however we have a temperate climate, so everything does freeze in winter. Thanks for the idea about the sweet potatoes, I will definitely give that a try next year (too late this year). They would be good ground cover, although I think they do need some watering early on in the season at least, so if we get another drought year like this I don't know how well they will do without help either way. Actually, this batch is the best I have had so far (at least the above-ground part!), though they still haven't spread that much tbh in 3 months. If they grew reasonably well I would happily go big on them because they are quite a valuable crop here, expensive to buy.

[@wipje41]

Also check out mint. Good groundcover and pretty rugged.

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

To be honest, I have it in a few places and it does hang on to life but doesn't really thrive. Maybe it would do well in some of these moisture-sink spots I am trying to create.

[@hanzi696]

Just a suggestion if you struggle growing tomatoes. Try growing wild tomato varieties, mine are thriving & need no water in a Mediterranean climate. Companion planting tomatoes with borage works exceedingly well for me personally. You can try varieties such as "Matt's Wild Cherry" "Everglades Tomato" "Texas Wild Cherry" "Mexico Midget" as well as Galapagos Island tomatoes (solanum cheesmanie) & simple wild tomatoes (solanum pimpinellifolium)

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

Thanks, I wasn't really familiar with the idea of "wild" tomatoes, although I did have a lot of tomatoes that used to self-seed in my garden, little plum-shaped ones, and then one year they just disappeared, never to return! I have to say, I had a lot of borage growing until mid-July sometime and then it all just went to seed and died... I brought those seeds in, so I hope it seeded itself at least, so it grows back next year, or even for a second round this year.

[@Atimatimukti]

Are they any good? Thank you for this information, never heart about wild varieties.

[@hanzi696]

@@Atimatimukti Absolutely I love them & they're unbelievably productive. There's a company in the USA called HR seeds that has a wonderful variety of wild tomato seeds. I love them because they self sow & need essentially zero care. I grow them along fence rows & in roadside ditches because they can actually become very weedy & can quickly takeover an area producing thousands of tomatoes. I like growing several varieties because wild tomatoes tend to have large flowers with exerted stamens & thereby hybridize with each other quite easily, unlike domestic tomatoes which can be a bit of a chore to breed because farmers select varieties which do not hybridize easily to maintain uniformity. I generally select several varieties & let them hybridize to create a vigorous & locally adapted population. Hope that helps!

[@Atimatimukti]

@@hanzi696 Thank you!!!

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

@@hanzi696 Thanks for this info, I have found a UK company that also sells wild tomato seeds (it's easier for me to get stuff from the UK). I will give them a try! I actually had some wild tomatoes growing in my garden the first few years I moved there, little plum-shaped ones, they used to just volunteer like crazy all over the place, we had loads of them. And then one year they just never came up, and that was the end of them, never had them since, it's been 2 or 3 years now, it's the strangest thing.

[@m.j.debruin3041]

If you have a possibility for a pond that would be great, even if you have to feed it during the drought, it keeps everything alive.

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

I'd love a pond, only thing is, without a drastic modification of the soil here it would have to have a liner and I am just not sold on the idea of putting plastic in the landscape to achieve something like that. I have heard you CAN get soil to seal over a period of years by building up organic material in there, but not sure with our sandy soil whether that's possible in any reasonable time-frame.

[@m.j.debruin3041]

@@thehillsidegardener3961 I agree, natural is best/ only way, you would need clay to seal it , mabey you have it in the soil you can try sifting dirt in the lower part see what comes out.

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

@@m.j.debruin3041 Yes, I KEEP meaning to take a sample and do a simple jar test to see what's really in there, it does seem though that there is sand a long way down. A neighbour dug a well and I THINK he said it was all just sand. Actually, I believe that this type of soil is called loess, it's sedimentary, mineral-rich but very little organic material and I doubt there is much clay...

[@zoricamilosevic9421]

Na pocetku treba vise vremena i rada uloziti. Bice to Ok. Imali sno vinograd na Banstolu, nije to losa zemlja.

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

Za vinograd je skroz OK, ali generalno je prilično siromašno, imamo svega 1,65% organskog materijala, sve je otišlo nizbrdo odavno, za jednogodišnje biljke je jako loše bez komposta itd. a veštačka đubriva naravno neću da koristim.

[@shrachi91d]

Mother nature can heal herself with times.

[@Aa-tb7oe]

use ollas, simply fill it with water and bury it near the plants.

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

I've never tried that, I'd need some really big pots and I would only want to use them near some high-value plants that I water anyway, but it would save on constant watering as you only need to refill the pots every few days, I guess? Could be a life-saver in the heat.

[@andrespkpasion]

Have you tried biochar??

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

I have done a LITTLE bit but planning to step it up once I've properly understood the process off making it. Actually I have created a bit this summer and will decide where to prioritise putting it. I do need to read up on it a little more.

[@andrespkpasion]

@@thehillsidegardener3961 i could help you out, I'm a bit of a biochar nerd actually lol. Do you have any other social media accounts to chat? I wonder if i could actually mentor people about it and make some extra income. I won't charge you of course but I won't reject it if you feel like giving something back hehe let me know I'm glad to share my knowledge

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

@@andrespkpasion Thanks for the offer, honestly the main problem is I just have SO much going on (full-time job, kids, don't even live on the land outside of summer, have MANY jobs to do up there not involving the garden, like finishing the deck I have been making) that I just don't have time to sit down and learn many things, either through someone teaching me or doing the research myself. I wish that only applied to biochar, but it's basically the story of my life right now!

[@snugglesjuggler]

I had to go back to your swales video (kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y3fPoXmgo6qVkJY) to see what had gone "wrong" with your swales. The depth looks ok but is perhaps not enough. The soil looks like mostly sand with a hint of clay so I would create a berm of the dug up soil and fill the swale with a better moisture retaining soil that also will create a much better environment for rotting wood. It will take years for dry wood and sand to give moisture and nutrition back to the plants. Also dig more swales! Looks like you only did one. I have a slope that is much steeper than yours and there is only red coloured sand in the ground. Not much that was growing there before i dug swales and refilled with good soil. Now the sea-buckthorn I planted in one of the swales think it's to wet and is escaping the swale moving into the berm and slope instead. Next step for you will be to replace the grass with wood chips (or similar stuff) because grass will compete to much with your plants. Wood chips will also protect the topsoil much better than grass.

[@peterellis4262]

Swales are for infiltrating water into the soil, not for holding it in the swale. They're not meant to be small elongated ponds ;) They put water into the soil where it is much slower to evaporate than from an open air water surface.

[@snugglesjuggler]

@@peterellis4262 Swales can be constructed in different ways and have different purpose depending on plant type, soil type, gradient and precipitation pattern. Filled or not you are right that it is preferable to have some keyline gradient or you might end up with a pond or bog garden. It's preferable to test the soil drainage first by pouring a lot of water into a dug hole. You might be surprised about how much clay there actually is in there.

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

@@snugglesjuggler My immediate neighbour actually had a soil analysis done, I will have to go back to that and remind myself what it said, but I can tell you water drains away VERY quickly here, I think it would be hard to create a natural pond, it would have to be lined, which I'm not so keen on. Thanks for your various comments, food for thought, going to come back and read a little later when I'm not busy with other stuff.

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

I just had a look at the soil analysis, it's not very detailed but organic material is only 1.65% and Calcium Carbonate levels are very high, it basically used to be a sea-bed in prehistoric times.

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

Oh yes, about filling the ditches with better water-retaining soil, I'd like to, I guess the problem is we just don't have any around here other than my home-made compost, which is a precious commodity! So that's why I have just chucked as much organic material in there as possible, I realise it's a long-term effort but kind of the best I can do right now. You're right that I haven't extended the swales along, that's partly just because I haven't got the time, but also due to the concern about whether swales are even appropriate on this steeper terrain. Also, with our very high-draining soil, you aren't getting that effect where the water "stays" in the swales all along the contour, it all just drains away, so at the moment I am almost using them more as a local moisture sink, with the organic material retaining at least some water, hopefully. So digging them all along might not even be necessary or appropriate, really not sure yet. Oh yes, and the grass growing around the trees, well I had sown quite a lot of wild flowers around the trees so I didn't want to stifle them with compost, but apart from borage, most of them didn't do well in the drought, so I think I will put down woodchip instead and plant what I want into the layer below as I see most food-foresty people doing. However, we don't have a ready supply of woodchips so it might have to be fallen leaves, straw or something similar.

[@notone4540]

Forget black locust, go for ''autumn olive'' or any other ''eleagnus'' really.

[@Atimatimukti]

Mine survived the portuguese burnig summer without on drop of water. But no fruit

[@notone4540]

@@Atimatimukti Yes they won't die easily. But in extreme seasons you get no fruits or just some very dry shrivelled things.

[@Atimatimukti]

@@notone4540 Next dry summer I will water it, I only wanted to know if it did resist extreme drought. Where I live, we still had a lot of water and today, 5th of September, it's finally raining here in the northwest of Portugal!!!

[@incognitoalias2808]

Use copper tools, Checkout electroculture........

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

I have heard of people using copper tools but have found it hard to believe there is any great difference, or that they have some "magical" property, especially in a drought like this! I haven't read enough on it but I am not sure of the scientific basis at this point. But I will look it up as I honestly don't know anything about it, I just remember Charles Dowding in a video showing off his copper spade, that's about it!

[@RedandAprilOff-Grid]

That doesn't look too bad considering how dry you have been. Here in Southern Arizona, we get all of our rain in 2.5 months, and almost nothing the rest of the year. It's nice and green right now, but it won't last. 🌞🏜️

[@thehillsidegardener3961]

Yes, I think the main problem is that we're just not used to it, this used to be a more temperate climate where you could expect a lot of spring rain, and at least some in summer, and you could grow annuals fairly comfortably. So we are having to start thinking more like you do in a desert climate, I think.