Picking the Best Ammo for Waterfowl | Shotgunning Series pt 8

[@SurvivingDuckSeason]

What's your go-to ammo for waterfowl?

[@cfoutdoors0624]

Preference is Migra. But usually whatever is cheapest that I know patterns decent in my shotgun.

[@tigerace6542]

Federal Black Cloud

[@BryanCase]

Kent Bismuth, if I can find it.

[@timothydavey7569]

I've been using whatever I can get because of ammo shortages still happening. I do believe I'm going to buy some Boss shells. My hunting buddies always use it!

[@_1COR15.1-4]

Bxd

[@stevejohansen5373]

As a new water fowl hunter with no one to teach me how hunt since it was a practice lost in my fam this series has been incredibly informative helping me decide exactly what’s best for my preference!

[@FLIGHT762]

I'm old and have been shooting Ducks & Geese since 1965. I have a lot of experience with lead shot. Yes, we did have cripples using lead shot. I eventually started hand loading my own Waterfowl loads. My go to favorite lead load for Ducks was 1-3/8 oz of hard # 4' s@ 1350 FPS in a 2-3/4" AA hull. Had to start using the poor steel loads eventually and they were miserably bad at the time. After many years of using about every steel load, My Duck favorites are Kent Fasteel or Fiocchi in the 12 Ga. 3"1-1/8, 1-1/5 #3's @ 1550 FPS., both use plated shot. This was from many years of actual field testing with Ducks hitting the pond. I've only missed a couple of Waterfowl seasons since 1965. I won't use any of the other lead replacements for Waterfowl since I've found steel loads that work fine. I do use Heavy Shot for Turkeys since it only takes a few shells for that. Best choke I found for over decoys is the Comp N Choke I.C. Takes birds easily out to 40 YDS.

[@cashotpb]

I’ve hand loaded that lead load. 37g of blue dot. It’s a heavy magnum load

[@duckbrian7973]

If you ever decide to use TSS, 18cc weight. Will remind you of lead days but better. DRT

[@brianrichards5694]

Federal blue box steel best there is

[@BigOleHayden]

IC choke aka private honey whole sitting in the water next to them

[@TheKep]

Fudlore lol. Speed keeeiillss sonny!!! Why shooting 1550? It’s asinine. Just buy boss bismuth and get rid of that out of round choke.

[@dtaylor9673]

Joel, this whole series is very well researched, factual and thought provoking. I applaud your efforts to bring quality Wildfowl Shooting content to KZbin. Hope your efforts are rewarded.

[@vaughnprecision]

Howdy Joel, love your work. I shoot a Beretta A-400 Xtreme Plus and I’ve been shooting Boss 4s and 5s for 3 years. Just this week I switched to Boss 3/5 and will also be posting a video on them soon. Boss didn’t have to sell me, the round sold itself.! I’ve found that I get a great pattern across multiple chokes but I’ve settled on Rhino extended range choke. Great work my friend, can’t wait until the next video.!

[@SurvivingDuckSeason]

Right on! Thanks!👍😀

[@brentmccreary3337]

Tom Rosters lethality table reads: Large ducks over decoys 20 to 45 yards -> Steel shot #6 to #2. Meaning at the closer end of the range (20 yds) #6 shot will work. However at the end of the range (45 yds) steel #2 is needed.

[@stevenquirk4502]

Joel, I've thanked you before in prior videos in this series, but now I truly mean it. I got brave this year and a little broke. I decided to go out and try different brands and shot sizes. Went and patterned them and found the shells that work very well in my gun. I used to just buy the basic blue box from federal trying to save money but leaving a lot of cripples. I have never folded this many birds, even with some of the hardier later-season birds. Thank you for convincing me to get out of my comfort zone and try something different.

[@SurvivingDuckSeason]

Steven, that’s great! I made the series for you, and guys like you. I knew it would be a game changer for everyone who took it to heart. I appreciate you taking the time to share this with me. 💪🏻👍🏻👊🏻

[@GregButterfield]

your right on the recoil. I switched from 12 gauge 3.5 inch super mag steel to 20 gauge bismuth last year and my shooting greatly improved.

[@RetrieverTrainingAlone]

I agree and like 1 1/8 oz of steel 2s. Inexpensive but effective for my hunts up here in Alaska. Blindside and Black Cloud were marketing gimicks.

[@glennevans4197]

Hey Joel, I'm a new guy to your channel, I have been quietly watching your videos over the last 3 weeks, and I have to say this. I'm am absolutely totally impressed with your presentation and content, by far the best waterfowl videos on KZbin. Please keep up the fantastic work myself and mates here in New Zealand really like your stuff. Very grateful to you.

[@dereksullins4841]

I shoot Boss 20 gauge 3" #5. I shoot the 3" shell over the 2 3/4" shell for more pellets. Worked so good, my buddy ordered a case of Boss for his 12 gauge.

[@Will_Central_MN]

this is going to be my first ever duck season. I'm 55 so maybe getting a late start, but these videos have saved me a lot of time and helped speed up the learning curve! Thank you

[@DoItYourselfRC]

Boss 3/5 mix 3in for everything.

[@levigoodwin3522]

I'm glad you told that story about your first band being from a cripple that you didn't even shoot. I've been hunting for 20 years and only just got my first band last year. I was breaking ice walking into my spot in a managed hunting area, and there was a big drake mallard sitting on the ice. He was clearly a cripple, so I walked up to him chased him for a bit and then broke his neck, then seconds later realized he had a leg band. He probably got crippled from the evening hunters the day prior. I'm glad I'm not the only one that that's happened to. Lol

[@saltcreekammo]

I started cutting open shotshells and have been learning a lot more about what a good shell and bad shell looks like... Just because the box says 1-1/8 or 1-1/4, doesn't mean that's exactly what's in the shell. Most of the time it's a lot lighter. Shot quality is also an issue... Lots of companies are loading misshapen pellets... Same with velocities. They are more often than not, slower than advertised-- looking at you *BOSS* !

[@nicmeador8866]

Their shot sizes are also 1/2 size bigger than advertised. Their #5 is more #4.5

[@Scotty777]

I really appreciate this series. I have any been waterfowl hunting for a few years now and I really love it. Thank you for explaining things clearly and expanding my understanding of waterfowl hunting.

[@JabbaTheGrub]

As a new waterfowler, this has been a super helpful series Joel, thank you. I have learned so much to take into the field and adapt to my hunts.

[@SurvivingDuckSeason]

Outstanding! Thanks for letting me know!

[@kraigkaatz6858]

Hey Joel, I really like the information. It can be confusing and much of your info does cause me to question my current thought process. This is not a bad thing in my opinion but rather a teaching/learning opportunity that many folks aren't taking advantage of. Great work Joel, God Bless..

[@jesseekins2432]

the best was the origional HeviSteel, we had great success with their #6 shot on all ducks. now its whatever steel is available or on sale.

[@b_e336]

Thanks for Posting this video, for a new waterfowl hunter this was informative. And I was better able to select what shells to use now on Thanks

[@4mrholsterco981]

I will say, herters steel #2 and browning wicked wing #2 I have gotten pretty cheap, and pattern well out of my old browning a500r, which has seen much improvement with a patternmaster code black duck. A lot of people haven’t seen improvement with that choke, but out of my shotgun it has made a big difference in pattern, especially with the short old invector chokes at the start. Eventually when I can afford it, I’d like to get some boss shells to try. Steel sucks, everyone who duck hunts knows this, but it’s what a lot of us have to use, this is why I always try to shoot ducks when they are cupped coming in, or water swat them. Everybody has what works for them, and I love the dedication and the obsession that goes into these videos, they are great keep up the good work. Am I greedy to ask for more frequent videos? Like going over boat options, affordable blind builds, as well as kayak blinds (I primarily hunt off a kayak and am working on building a lightweight folding blind).

[@Pepper_em_outdoors]

Hey man I’m a young hunter but not a new hunter and I love your videos the shells I shoot are migra I love the stack helps you distance shots and close up shots we shoot a bunch of wood duck here in low country sc and in my opinion a wood duck is tougher then a mallard also in my experience I’ve folded mallards further then 50 yards with my migras and with tss and I can’t justify the spending twice as much for kind of pretty much the same performance but I also shoot a full choke and I feel completely comfortable shooting 60 yards at ducks and we don’t have many cripples

[@joelquinones8539]

"I shot a bunch of loads" -Joel Strickland 😂 best quote ever. Jokes aside I love your vids

[@outdoor044]

I bit down on 2 bb's today eating goose for lunch😂. Early season '23 geese. My 11 yr old daughter put down her first goose (my cripple) with her little 20g. Proud dad moment so i didn't mind too much chompin on that steel!

[@turkeyhunter7617]

Probably the best most complete info I have ever seen on duck ammo! Thank you! 👍👍🦆🦆

[@rodandrew3306]

Very interesting content. I have been patterning my shotguns for years to determine the best choke tube for my gun, but not testing/patterning other ammo. For example, I have been shooting Fed Black Cloud 3 inch, 3 shot, 1 1/8 ounce, 1635 fps through a Benelli SB3 12 gauge. When patterning this combo I found my factory extended 4 notch choke tube (IC) has a tighter pattern at 40 yards than my factory extended tube 3 notch choke tube(Mod). I even went so far as to measure the inside diameter of the tubes with a micrometer. Yes, it appears to me that the tighter choke "blows" the pattern of the 1635 fps Black Cloud. I also found when I crippled a Wood duck at 50 yards, the only pellets the taxidermist and I could find was the round shot, and none of the saturn shaped pellets. This was only one bird, but that is what we found. Based upon your tests, I will try a case of Boss, pattern them, and try them in the field. Thanks for the information!

[@ChasinTail_]

Not sure if you’ll see this but this season coming up will be my first ever duck hunting season ever!thanks to you I feel more confident and prepared. I ended up watching all of your videos in a week lol also would love to see more merchandise possibly some slings? decals? stickers?

[@christopherduke8283]

I’ve used a lot of different brands of steel shot and have found 2 3/4 #4 shot suit my hunting style/ability😉 I choose Fiocchi as the hulls seem to be crimped better and don’t jam up my beretta and use the manufacturers improved cylinder choke. I plan to do my own bismuth loads this season( a big thanks to you Joel as I didn’t know until watching your videos there was an alternative to steel)so I’m keen to see how it goes 👍👍

[@nielshenriksen9633]

Hi Joel - watched your video on chokes first and then this one. Your videos are great and I appreciate your big job testing. I have done a lot of testing both in the field and on paper - also using a chonograph and telephone books (when you could still get them) over the last 40 years and found out a lot of interesting stuff. I agree totally with you on most aspects (the footage of the shot strings are really convincing), but I don't agree on your general view on steel shot capability to kill. I found that modern steel shot in many cases outperform the old time lead shot. Today I use a 1 oz load muzzle velocity v2 510 m/s ( roughly 1700 f/s) from Kent in a 3 " hull. I use #2 for geese and #4 for ducks of all sizes. The reason for this is that I can put 85% of the 2's inside the circle evenly distributed on forty yards and the 4's gives about 80%. For the 2's I use a Benelli SBE2 with factory choke modified and for the 4's I use a Wincester SX4 with a Kicks HighFlyer full ported (and having seen you videos I will try and get an unported from Kicks). I do my hunting over decoys mostly, but the range often goes beyond 50 yards and these loads are deadly. Again and again I am amazed how effective follow up shots are at very long distances - that is if you or a partner have crippled a bird and you just shoot to bring it down. And I am not talking about a lucky single pellet strike in the head, but a regular hit with several pellets hitting the bird. The effect is so much bigger if you shoot down wind which is often the case over decoys. You also don't really like the Wincehster Xpert. I have shot that shelll in a 3" 1 1/8 oz load in #2's for many years for snow geese. Started out using the Winchester Supreme in both BBB 3 1/2 inch and 2's 3 inch, but settled for the Xpert as it gets the job done and without the hard kick of the Supreme in 3 1/2 inch. I have been looking into TTS for special purpose hunting for trophy birds, but being a resident of Denmark I can't get my hands on any. My findings in the field is though bagging some 500 geese and ducks a year, so it is not just a few lucky shots. I Hope to hear a comment from you, and thanks for posting these videos - I will take my time and watch all of them over the next couple of days. I believe speed kills if you can find the correct combination for a dense even pattern with your steel shot. Niels

[@bryankirker6319]

Hi there. I liked your comment. Im not sure I fully agree that steel will out perform lead, but as I haven't tried the steel load your speaking of I will accept your findings. I will now start looking for it in the sporting stores. I totally agree with your last statement " I believe speed kills if you can find the correct combination for a dense even pattern with your steel shot." To my way of thinking - this sums it all up. Whatever load your using, find out its "EFFECTIVE RANGE" and then keep your shots within that distance. In the old days when we all reloaded our lead shot, it was common practice to test the load by shooting a beer bottle on a fence post. When you could no longer get consistent breaks, you knew you had reached the maximum range. A quick check of the pattern and if it passed, you were ready for the season. A trick that seems to have been lost on the younger generation. Cheers,

[@DaveThomspon]

I wish we could buy some of the loads you tested here in Canada. It would be nice to try Boss. Thanks for the video.

[@MapleNachiman]

After shooting steel for years I switched to those boss 3/5 duplex last season and with way less cripples, I think I'm actually saving money over steel.

[@austinevans3718]

I shoot a sbe3 20 ga with a jebs 585 and boss 3/5s and at 20 yards the pattern is just bigger than a dinner plate. And at 35-40 it is about 30-32 inches across. So I loved that combo.

[@Mountainandmolehill]

Looking forward to the choke discussion. I just use the ones that came with the gun

[@ejcked]

Very educational series. I like them.

[@dondouglas3431]

Thanks for the video. Past 3 seasons have shot Boss. 2 3/4 " 5 are great for up to 30 yards. Liked shooting 3" 3s for third shot or when geese were around. This year have a case of 2 3/4 " 3/5 to try also. Many more clean kills with Boss vs any steel shot i have used.

[@Tht42069]

Your content is amongst the highest quality.

[@aaronsnatic2446]

This series has been great!

[@FightrForLife]

I've always shot Winchester HiVelocity Xpert - the cheapest shells available at Walmart - until I found Winchester Dryloks on clearance after the 2020 season ended... I bought about 16 boxes, the last of which I'm using right now.... And I've got at least a box or 2 worth sitting in a ziplock bag with rusted heads. Out of everything I patterned through my SX4, Winchester Xperts and Dryloks patterned best for me. Now that I'm towards the end of the box of Dryloks and mixing in Xperts, I can tell the difference between the plated & regular steel.

[@brentbusick2245]

Black Cloud patterns great in my 12 and 20 gauges. It also performs well in both.

[@alienone6854]

I think it is all relative to distance, hated steel when it first came out as I had been raised on 16 gauge SXS choked full and full, 1.125 #4 lead for ducks and Canada Geese, worked great for both.... then steel came along, those first years about all you could find was #4 steel it was underloaded, light, prone to bloops...just nasty junk, it would kill Mallards if you hit the end that eats... past 30 yards it was iffy at best...had to move to a 12 gauge just for ammo availabilty....steel improved, but never to equal lead past 35-40 yards, Kent #1 in 1.375oz., 3inch was my favorite for a decade....I found that a light mod choke gave me "full choke" patterns....then along came hevi -shot....it did not sell well the first year so I got a case of #4 and a case of #2 1.5oz. loads cheap at the end of its first year...I was good to go on ammo for the next few years, stuff killed better than old lead loads...

[@mikek2488]

Enjoy all your videos and what you do with your explanations

[@gregdonahue7987]

I bought one box of Boss last year hoping it would be great. 4 shells failed to go off (bone dry, dimpled primers). I hope they solve this issue.

[@chevyon37s]

I’ve shot over 500rds of Boss and never had a single fail to fire. I shoot Boss in 12, 20, 16, and 10ga, and haven’t problems out of any of it. But I have heard a few people with the same problem as you, and I think it comes down to a gun issue and the harder primers that Boss uses.

[@roblacitinola866]

Such a good series Joel, very informative!!! I want the Def Leopard shirt!!!!

[@joearceneaux9854]

If you’re having trouble hitting ducks with payload speeds of 1350fps+, the answer IS NOT faster ammo. 1550-1750fps is hard on your gun, and usually just means you missed with faster pellets. Better shooting form will help. Follow through, do not stop your gun, practice at a skeet range. And check your stock fit and POA v POI, and don’t forget to account for thick clothing affecting your length of pull. Win. AA featherlights shoot at 980fps I’ve shot 25/25 skeet several times with them.

[@jesseregister8713]

Have you took a set of calipers and compared the actual size of the shot? I know with buckshot a true 00 is .33 caliber. Yet some manufacturers load .31 caliber pellets and call them 00 loads. Just wondering how one companies #2 compares to another's. I know it would seem a small difference but you may find one companies #3 is another companies #4.

[@johnstrassner8061]

You nailed that 3 shell example on the wounded duck 😂. Got me thinking 🤔 maybe I need some Bismuth lol.

[@steveyd101]

When I can afford it, I shoot hevishot #6. I have dropped large ducks and geese at 40+ yards. When I cleaned them, most of the pellets went all the way through. Shooting expensive shells also makes you be selective on your shots. And it really hurts when you miss $$$ lol

[@davidmitchell3708]

You spent alot of time gathering all this information. Well done and very helpful for today's hunters

[@brucedeason5863]

You should try out a Yildiz A71. I spent $330 dollars on it and have hunted with it for 2 years. It shoots great and cycles low brass as well when I dove hunt. I'm not saying it is as good as the top end guns but it might be the best bang for your Buck.

[@sha6mm]

Buy a 1100 3 inch Mag and I use Remington Nitro Steel 3 inch recoil has never been a problem ! I am old enough to know what a 3 inch Winchester Copper lead Mag with 1 7/8oz 4 shot felt like and worked like as I still use it on Late Season Pheasants. No I don’t like Steel its because I lost 10 yards vs Lead shot for range. Boss 3 bad shells last year Hell I have not had that many in my life with Factory Shells .

[@mengels]

That is by far, the most comprehensive firearm or ammo video I have seen. Excellent production quality and research, all backed up with data. Amazing.

[@larrynipper1291]

Thank you for all the information. Great video series. Can’t wait for the next one

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

Joel, great video man. I wish I would have had this my first season. My testing and budget have led me to mainly shoot BOSS #4 and #5 this season. However I really want to do some testing with their 2.75 loads, I've been mostly 3 inch thus far but I think the lighter shells have alot of advantages I'm missing out on.

[@benwhitmire4096]

I use their 23/4 #5's and they pattern and perform very well for me. I took down some canadas last year that were decoying in our spread. Normally I wouldnt shoot that load on geese but these were close, with one shot they folded. The recoil is soft enough my 13 and 15 year old girls can handle the 12 gauge.

[@TheNewHuntersGuide]

@@benwhitmire4096 Very nice!

[@SurvivingDuckSeason]

Thanks George.You'll be surprised with the 2.75. Now go get em in the woods, my friend!

[@alanrobinson3549]

Hi a great in depth look at shell! It was great you did this and it was base at 40 yrds. what is the average shot taken over decoys, should this test be done on the average you take your guess out to shoot! EG first shot at 25yrds and the second at 40yrds. should that have been the test! we could spend years debating this. For me you need a shell with enough pellets, to get a head or neck hit. I shoot TSS i load my own over in the UK. You were showing the cost of these shells where they all base on one load size? I can load a 20 gram load of TSS for my 28gauge that cost me £1.50 in the uk. If you can get the manufactures to produce a load for winged shooting all you need to us is TSS. these loads need to be less than 28 grams of 9s and 10s If the shell are out there and cost that much you need to start loading your own. TSS is the only way forward for wing shooting. The other question is what is the average spend on shells when people come and shoot at your lodge, be more careful when pulling the trigger. If you take time to practice at the clay ground and get better your kill rate will be up and will cost you less in the long run. It would be very interesting what is the ratio to kills when you take your guess out shooting. If its decoying duck at these ranges less that 40yrds I hope its no more than 2.1 Regards Alan Robinson UK

[@chevyon37s]

Boss 2 3/4” #4 1 1/4oz bismuth is my go to duck load. Patterns great, absolutely stones ducks out to 60yds when I do my part. There is a notable difference in energy on target in bismuth vs steel shot.

[@cfoutdoors0624]

I gotta give Boss another shot. After watching one of the other videos in the series I learned where I messed up by using a wad stripping or studded choke.

[@johncooper6230]

Another great thought-provoking video. I like the fact that you don't accept opinions as facts and try to find out for yourself. Although some of your conclusions are different to mine, you have found what works for you. Here in the UK the choice of commercially available loads is poor.

[@markstewart9305]

Went to 20 ga turkey TSS loads 3 yrs ago and immediately thought this could also work for waterfowl. The turkey loads were available in 7 or 9 shot in heavy 1.5 oz loads. They kick a lot in a 20 ga 870. Seems like 1 oz or 1.25 oz in #7, 8 and 9 shot would be good waterfowl loads to cover most species. The Federal 1.5 oz turkey loads are actually too heavy but I feel like the 3/4 oz Apex waterfowl loads are a bit light. Hope to see more 20 ga. offerings from Federal, Apex and maybe others.

[@nicmeador8866]

Joel, if you want, do some digging on the tss/steel duplex loads. I don't believe they're needed in 12 or even 20 gauge loads where you have the hull space for bismuth or 12-13g/cc shot. It shines in the 28 and 410. Most of the time the steel is really more filler. If you're going to use a filler why not make it lethal filler for distances that don't matter what you hit the bird with? Since TSS patterns so tight from the get go, loaded under the steel forces it to push through the pattern as the steel slows down causing it to open up. Improved cylinder (in the 28) and even Cyl (in the 410) have super tight patterns with tss, in some cases retaining 90% of the tss pellets in a 30" at the 45 yard mark. .5 oz of tss #8 is 125 pellets, 181 with #9. Retaining 90% is around 110-112 pellets in a 30" circle. Easily doable with both shot sizes and will kill any duck farther than most people can shoot accurately.

[@nicmeador8866]

Forgot to include what I was originally thinking 🤦‍♂️ The reason you're seeing the separation of the shot string with the tss/steel load is simple physics. TSS being so small and dense will have less air resistance than the steel causing it to out run the steel.

[@johnjunge6989]

My son is the big hunter, I use to be nearly 50 years ago. Sent him all your videos, let's hope it helps!! ha

[@kraigkaatz6858]

Hey Joel, So I'm rewatching for the 3rd time and taking better notes then my college days... lol.. Great info and want to do some testing myself.. God Bless...

[@carlosestrada5004]

28 gauge is the best. I also thought it was for kids at one time. I bought a single shot youth model for my daughter for doves. Near the end of the season, I was out of 12 gauge but had 3 boxes of 28. I decided to try that little 28. 18 shots later, I had a 15 bird limit. Now I have three 28 gauges. That little single shot, a Yildiz over under, and a Benelli ethos supersport. I usually hunt doves and clays but started hunting ducks with it. Ammo is pricey, but because I am a better shot with the low recoil and great pattern, I don't need as many shots to get my limit. I also wait for my targets to get close because I don't like walking far from my stand to collect my game. The smaller weight of the shot lets me carry more ammo, and the light weight of the gun helps me walk long distances to the stand. Once you hunt with one, it will be difficult to go back to a 20 or a 12 even though the ammo costs a little more.

[@TeamJesusOutdoors]

Impressive, but probably not the right choice for everyone. I am considering 20 Guage as my new go to.

[@Colby-rd3pe]

i love the boss 3/5 shot, but i have always wondered how they compare to the migra combo shots, like the 4/6 or the 2/5

[@richardsveum8452]

I’ve never had any issues with factory loaded ammo until the last 2 years. Fiocci, Remington, Winchester all had issues. Started with trap loads then hunting ammo out of several different shotguns.

[@skeeterb6183]

What would you suggest for the days when the wind is blowing 25-30 mph? Thank you

[@alienone6854]

adjust your lead...steel definitely moves more in the wind.

[@kolbywells3048]

I shoot Federal Blackcloud Tss 3&9. I purchase it for 2.89 a round. It has 3/4 ounce #9 tss and performs lights out for me with LM choke out to 60yds. You can't find 1 ounce TSS for less than 5.00 a round. In my opinion it's a really good load for the money

[@jonathan.r.fierro8577]

You made an excellent point about recoil & follow up shots. Shooting at birds 3.5" shells doesn't hurt my shoulder at all. (practice or patterning is a whole different story) They do rock my shoulder back & a couple times I felt a slight muscle pull on my rib cage as they made my torso twist. Resulting in it taking that much more time to get back on target or get on another bird. My friend even said he could tell I was shotting 3.5s. I'll probably switch to 3" shells once I run out this case of 3.5s. BOSS seams to have a pretty good product.

[@TheKep]

2 3/4 all day

[@DaveThomspon]

Thank you for another great video. I have been successfully shooting Kent Steel for 25 years and find them superior (in my gun) to other manufacturers. That said point that it takes maybe more than one steel shot to kill a bird where one Bismuth will do the it is very compelling. I plan to load some Bismuth this season. Thanks again.

[@kensmith2822]

Pellets in the meat, get a small wand metal detector. Bought one for $30 and works perfectly!

[@calvinwadford1295]

Can you please do a test on the migra stacked shot 2x3s or 2x4s through the muller chokes an Carlsons please 🙏

[@JoshGirard-mw6ni]

I have watched the series through and i heard you touch on duplex loads and said you would belive it would be better off with one style of pellets. I am an reloader and was wanting to make some duplex #4 zinc coated shells and #9 tss 18 and my thinking on that was that the 9s would carry longer range and they group tighter and the #4 would play out about the time the #9s went to work kind of simular to the prarie storm upland that has flight stoppers with #5 copper plated i use on turkes and have grown to love them when the flight stoppers loose energy the #5 carry on Was curios on your thought on this idea thanks again

[@John-nx9hx]

I truly wish Boss was available in Canada. I am old enough to have started hunting in the 'good old days of lead' when ducks died when you shot them, steel will never preform as well. Availability and affordability are key factors in buying ammo [in Ontario at least]. All bismuth loads are crazy expensive and super hard to find here. I've been using Hevi Steel 3'' BB on geese for 3 years now, I find it preforms equally to the better loads [kent 2.0, win. dry lock] at a lower price. I have recently invested in some Hevi Hammer loads due to a good sale on at a national distributors, #2's for geese and #4's for ducks [HH only comes in #2 & #4, not sure why] hopefully I will put them to the test this season. I agree patterns are obviously important but equally important is penetration, enough people don't realize that. Something that never seems to be addressed in these comparison videos on Ytube is shell length size vs. payload size. Many companies are selling 3" shells with a payload of 11/8 oz. steel [as opposed to 11/4] the same as a 2/34' shell. It's a sales gimmick to watch out for.

[@TheDecoyDude]

Love Boss but I have found that it does fragment especially when it hits bone. It is light recoiling and smooth but still on the expensive side. I shoot #5 shot and am effective up to 50yards. I do love how they sell a huge variety of shots. For steel I have found that Kent #4 and #6 is my favorite. I shoot a modified factory choke.

[@brandonb3118]

A lot of great info here. Almost Every gun and choke will pattern a shell differently. That is why it is important to get out there pattern your gun and find a shell that works well for you and your budget

[@ktkawaguchi]

I think it can be an either/or for soft recoiling shotgun and light loads for specs and snows. I love 2.75 inch reloads with 3/4 oz #2 steel and IM and M chokes to keep the shot density tight. I think the cat is out of the bag i shoot these out of a double barrel. Shots are at committed birds only so shot density is enough. I do not notice any recoil with 30 inch O/U. I have no idea if my 3/4 ounce loads will cycle an auto. I keep TSS18 reloads handy for after the main volley if needed...#5 TSS do pretty nicely but its too expensive to shoot exclusively. I may tinker with duplex loads, but i like cheap loads for the birds inside of 20 yards.

[@paulowens6838]

Good stuff. I shoot the 3/5 Boss shorties too. great round. Hits noticeably harder then my buddies steel shot and kicks like a light target load out of my benelli. I hunt on BIG water. If you're saying that TSS can be effective out to 90ish yards. Would it make any sense to have a box in the blind bag for finishing off cripples? Seems to me like a load of 9 shot TSS, would be pretty clutch in reaching out and touching a crippled bird on the water a ways out. I can't justify shooting it exclusively because of the price, but perhaps keeping some on hand would be pretty sweet.

[@saltcreekammo]

For pass shooting, I'd go with the 3" load of Boss #3's and be done with it. Shouldn't need a water swatter load... But yes, TSS would work well for that application.

[@paulowens6838]

@@saltcreekammo yeah, I don't normally try to water swat them, but Saturday for instance, my buddy shot a duck that hit the water, crippled. It's head was up and swimming. (my dog's not hunting yet) so we jumped into the rowboat to chase it down but finally lost the pour thing. After seeing this, I wondered if perhaps a heavy long range load could have put another shot on it from shore before the great chase started up. hahaha. we tried a few shots at it, but she was probably 60ish yards out and the patterns just sucked at that range cause she wouldn't go down.

[@forrestspencer7846]

My family has had great results with Winchester model 12 16ga using federal #4 and #5 shot at 50 yards and below. Also had great success with dear to. 16ga is very under rated by many people. You should give it a shot or two if 12ga is just to much to handle.

[@ryansims8477]

Hey Joel. Thanks for the vid. You provided some great info. Kent Bismuth vs Boss Bismuth? I know you prefer Boss as mentioned in the video in #4 and #5. I have some Kent that I got from a buddy who can no longer hunt. It’s #3 shot. In any case, I’m curious to learn your opinion on Kent Bismuth.

[@Dopey_Fudd]

Made me want to change from 1 1/8 to definitely 1 1/4. I've always relied on speed, but know it can put holes in the patterns. I use #2 for me, too covers bit medium and large ducks, and the big bonkers we have.

[@TravisKemFishing]

As much as I don't like Blind Side's squared pellets, they do actually make excellent water swat finishing rounds. But I'm shooting only Boss next year.

[@alienone6854]

I buy a box of #6 steel for those swat loads...

[@chaseforrey9511]

The more I watch these videos the more I’m thinking about mixing up my shell choices. I have always shot the cheapest shells I can find but if I’m having to shoot cripples a couple times they are no longer the cheapest option.

[@swamp_rat_fla1126]

I’m gonna try those Boss 2 3/4 #5’s next season. 👍🏻

[@kross1261]

Bought some of the Hevi XII. Thought it penciled out pretty well with density and cost. But haven’t shot it yet. Be interesting to see your results if you test it.

[@westonbaird9261]

I’ve used steel shot 2 and bb seam pretty good not much pellets like you say and your right but I think the bb has enough energy to get in deep I’d like to see a video on the energy of shit size

[@saltcreekammo]

I started shooting BB on everything, and noticed a huge difference in lethality. No cripples, and clean misses.

[@Sicktrickintuner]

Same, but found more birds took longer to go down if it went into the body and not the head.

[@clks1165]

There is an old video of testing steel shot by in 1987 on KZbin. This was when the game and fish and hunting guides were testing the effectiveness of the steel shot they tested reloaded steel shot of size bb and 6 shot, which was the time when those shot size Weren't commercially available at the time but they had it custom made. They also test factory 4, 2 ,and 1 shot on both ducks and geese with no problems. The fastest load test at the time was going at 1390 fps, and some may have gone at 1250 fps and still killed duck and geese with no problems.

[@jacobfarley824]

I started reloading because I want 1250 fps. I shot my old fast factory loads (1550 fps) the patterns weren't great passed 30 yards. When I slowed down to 1250 my patterns were better even out to 60 yards.

[@danielsullivan9865]

In California are best shooting is in rice ground on big windy days. The main test you left out is wind drift at 40 yards. Anything smaller than BB steel has huge wind drift. That’s why we shoot all BBs for ducks and BBBs for geese. Definitely way overkill at 20 yards but great at 4O to 70yds. I shot Tungsten Matrix when they were $1.24 each, #5 for ducks #1 for geese. Performance with Tungsten Matrix was the closest to lead except the patterns were much better than lead with a .040 choke. After all this new technology, if given the choice, I would still take 11/4 oz. 33/4 dram #5 lead shot for 20 to 50 yards birds. Could easily kill a mallard or a sprig with every shot at 30 yds. My grandson said that I am old and narrow minded. I guess he’s right.

[@SurvivingDuckSeason]

I didn’t see a wind drift test as something that was worth the investment of time to do. What wind speeds? What distances. How many days will you have to wait to get the different wind speeds… and at the end of the day (or months), the conclusions wouldn’t be of much benefit. There are calculators that can guesstimate what is happening… the main problem with wind speed tests is that rarely is your wind speed sustained… there are higher gusts and lulls too. Bringing wind speed into the discussion of BB is irrelevant to me for the reasons I discussed on the video about not being nearly enough pellets for ducks. I realize there are some who have found success with it, and are ‘ok’ with the trade-off. My purpose is to give the most reasonable suggestions for the masses.

[@johnselby570]

What's the shot mix percentage in the boss 3/5 shells?

[@Laughinghawg]

Hey Joel, how are the rest of the "How To" vids for the pups coming along? I'm in the process of researching this topic cause I'm get'n too old and fat to trudge across muddy rice fields chase'n sailing birds. The list you had at the end of the "Finding a New DUCK DOG | Where to start" sounds like it will have a lot of great info in it! 😁

[@turbodog1542]

Great info. Thanks for the info.

[@SteelTiiTan]

How has availability and pricing been for ammo for you all in the US? Here in Canada options have been slim over the last few years, and prices continue climbing it's been brutal so everyone I hunt with ends up shooting cheap steel because other options are so costly or just not found.

[@ctrlace]

bought my 1st case of boss due to this video

[@LowellZitlow]

I only use the original Hevi Shot in the green or blue 10 round boxes with a hevi shot choke tube in a Beretta A400. My cripples are almost nonexistence, and my bag limits are much better since I quit using steel shot. I use #4 or #6 on ducks and #2 on geese. It is hard to find these shells, but you can find them online auctions. Also, it doesn't matter if they are 2 3/4 or 3 in, they both kill really good.

[@trent1526]

Had to start shooting steel BB in late season because we had one hunt that we chased multiple cripples with the #3’s we usually shoot. I’ve fallen in love with BB, paired with extended modified choke everything under 50yds is dead. I’ll have to try the Boss shells though, just have to increase my hunting savings account 😅

[@justinfields2044]

yep i have done the same BBs all the way!

[@okshotgun]

Joel, How do you feel about the stacked or layered loads from Migra or Kent? It seems like something that was done in the past and is now coming back around from good marketing. So is your testing of the stacked loads of steel 2's and 4's or 1's and 3's any good? Again, I am not talking about blended shot types, only steel shells with mixed shot sizes. Thanks.

[@SurvivingDuckSeason]

I wasn’t impressed by any of the steel multi-shot size loads.

[@kevingillis5365]

Kent made the sliver hulls awesome them 2.0s are to inconsistent jam alot switched to challenger 3 in no jams

[@buck19]

Winchester xx steel are junk pellets, but great inside 20yds with #4 in 2 3/4. Pulled a #2 out of some dog food last night. The pellet had a booger and dimple on opposite ends. Big enough to obviously effect travel at distance.

[@duanebush3056]

I shoot boss bismuth #5 i.c. choke 20 gauge 3". Awesome up to 40 yards over decoys.

[@herrmauser1066]

I would love to try the Boss copperplated ammo in my 12ga on ducks and geese but are they available in Europe?

[@mikeries8549]

I use a Beretta 390 with factory IC choke and kill plenty of ducks in timber. Reason I brought it up is it shoots light on the shoulder even with heavy 3 inch loads.